#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2011-05-14

xMffvery likely00:00
Action: kristianpaul dint compile opnewrt zburst since last year00:00
mthI have alsa-lib enabled in buildroot and it builds fine with both uClibc-0.9.30 and uClibc-0.9.3100:00
mthso probably there is some other factor that also matters00:00
xMffnew alsa-lib + old uclibc -> error00:01
mthah, and buildroot is pointing to an older alsa-lib?00:01
uncloudedsorry, didn't make it clear: I -am- building from the Qi repository00:01
xMffthe qi repo has a wrokaround00:02
xMffmth: yeah00:03
uncloudedSo if I get: neil@builder:~/openwrt-xburst$ ls feeds/qipackages/alsa-lib/patches/00:07
unclouded001-link_fix.patch  002-versionsort.patch  003-mips-atomic-static-inline.patch00:07
unclouded..then the patch should already be applied during build?00:07
uncloudedWeird.  I'm definitely getting that build error even though the patch is there00:11
kristianpaulright branch?00:11
xMffor its not usign the oner from qi00:12
xMffbut the one from the packages feed00:12
uncloudedsorry, I thought I was on release_2011-02-23 but it says it's not on any branch00:13
uncloudedhow do I tell which feed it's getting alsa-lib from?00:14
Action: kristianpaul doubts if openwrt from qi uses TAGs00:15
uncloudedok, it's not using the Qi alsa-lib.  after the error it leaves /home/neil/openwrt-xburst/feeds/packages/libs/alsa-lib00:26
uncloudedthis is after make package/symlinks and make V=99 package/alsa-lib/{clean,compile}00:27
uncloudedhow can I make it use the Qi alsa-lib?00:27
xMffthats why one shouldn't use package/symlinks00:29
xMff./scripts/feeds uninstall alsa-lib00:29
xMff./scripts/feeds install alsa-lib -p qi-packages00:29
xMffhowever, https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/2688800:30
xMffshould fix it once and for all00:30
wpwrakbtw, does anyone here know where the MLT (mltframework) folks hang out ? seems to be a great tool, but documentation-wise, shrouded in mystery00:37
uncloudedMy cheesy "cp feeds/qipackages/alsa-lib/patches/002-versionsort.patch feeds/packages/libs/alsa-lib/patches/" fixed it but I'll try the uninstall and install like you say00:46
uncloudedIs "make package/symlinks" bad?  http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Software_Image suggests it00:47
unclouded./scripts/feeds install alsa-lib -p qi-packages didn't work for me ( I think it thought "-p" was a package) but alsa-lib builds for me anyway now.  many thanks for the help01:01
wolfspraulwpwrak: did you read the yahoo patent thing I posted?01:53
wpwrakhmm no. where ?02:03
wolfspraulwpwrak: http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/NY/News/ViewNews.aspx?id=1592802:15
wolfspraulso much fun to read. you will appreciate the subtleties, I'm sure...02:15
wpwrakah well. yet another case. it's nice that someone is willing in that particular cesspit, but besides that, for me, the - in this area pretty much globalized - legal system has lost all credibility when it comes to patents with the RIM vs. NTP case.02:56
wolfspraulI thought you would appreciate the sportive part of it.03:03
wolfspraullike the lawyers sitting in round A, learning for round B03:03
wolfspraulsome caving in (Amazon), some betting it all03:04
wpwrakonly yahoo betting it all, it seems03:04
wolfspraulI like the learning aspect, the more you get the other side the talk the more angles for attack you have.03:04
wpwrakand yes, the tactics are good03:04
wolfsprauland then the complete unpredictability of a laymen jury03:04
wolfspraullots of drama, acting03:05
wpwrakonly, you can't count on such luck. so the system is still flawed03:05
wolfsprauloh sure, of course03:05
wolfspraulI didn't like it because Yahoo won, but because of the tactics in play.03:05
wolfspraulit's just another form of casino03:05
wolfspraul"google saved half a billion usd'03:05
wolfspraulyo sure. :-)03:05
wpwrakyes, the jury system sort of has the charm of cavemen trying to repair a cray-1 ...03:06
wolfspraulit's mostly about who has better actors, better scripting, a bit of luck too03:06
wolfspraulI wouldn't be surprised if all those lawyers are high-fiving each other at the end of a long day, getting a drink...03:06
wolfspraulafter all they are all in the same industry (ahem)03:06
wpwraksomeone should slip them a bit of poison into their drinks. kill the birds on both sides with one stone ;)03:07
wpwrakwell, i don't know if they really think like that. i know some lawyers who seem to be pretty decent persons.03:08
wolfspraulthe part with 'learning in round A' is very interesting, even for us03:08
wolfspraulit shows the extreme importance for the troll to start with the biggest players first!03:08
wolfspraulthey have a lot to loose03:08
wolfsprauland it gives us a HUUUUGE protection actually, in real life, not theoretically03:09
wolfspraulthey would be crazy to pull out any small fish first, and make all sorts of legally binding statements that later victims can use against the troll03:09
wpwrakit also works the other way: if they start with the weak target, the weak target can remind the next in line that that should put up as strong a defense as they can.03:09
wolfspraulwe could in fact try to find a larger one to help us03:09
wolfspraulbecause via our defense lawyer, the larger guy can already extract potentially damaging statements from the other side03:10
wpwrakbetter for google to pay you 10 M for legal fees than them losing and having to pay several 100 M03:10
wpwrakyes, exactly03:10
wolfsprauland as the article said, there was a whole bunch of lawyers siting in round A diligently, taking notes :-)03:10
wolfspraulno but this whole thing illustrates how important it is for them to start at the top03:11
wolfsprauland 20 years is not that long03:11
wolfspraulit typically takes about 10 years until even the case against the top is starting to roll03:11
wolfspraulthen we just have to be under the radar for another 10 years, which passes fast in legal time03:11
wolfspraulso the 'patent troll' risk is really very very small for us03:12
wpwrak(start at the top) i don't know how the appeals process works in the us. a big player would have the resources to go through many costly iterations, while a small player may fold more quickly.03:12
wolfspraulonly leaving cases such as sivel where we are almost in the net by accident03:12
wpwrakso their bet is whether you're a) small enough to fold, and b) can't get anyone to support you03:12
wolfspraulthe small player may get indirect help from a larger one03:12
wolfspraulno they need to start at the top03:13
wpwraki guess in the case of sisvel, the excellent pr openmoko had kinda backfired :)03:13
wolfspraulthat's a must in their business model (the patent troll)03:13
wolfspraulno from all I heard it's just a side-effect, because they have this 'mp3' dragnet at customs03:13
wolfsprauland there was something about mp3 on the headset label or so03:13
wolfspraulI am 100% sure, if sisvel could, they would rather never have found om03:14
wolfspraulit's like when you are fishing you get all these fish that are not profitable -> you have to throw them out into the water again03:14
wolfspraulbeing small is a very effective protection against patent trolls03:14
wolfspraulthe only way they can make money is from the large guys03:14
wpwrak(a must) i wouldn't count on it. it's good for us if they do, i but i think it's dangerous to rely on that. you also have to consider that the us system has the concept of precedence - future cases have to consider previous ruling (unless overruled at a higher instance). so it still makes sense to go for a weak target first.03:15
wolfspraulthat's where the speed of the system and the potential payouts match to make a living for lawyers who could easily make 200k usd/year or more elsewhere03:15
wolfspraulnah they are cold blooded. they want to make money, not fix every 'injustice' in the world03:15
wpwrak(mp3 dragnet) funny. i wonder how this works. can you make customs officials to scan for your keywords and alert you ? kinda like google ads but for free ?03:16
wolfspraulif I would be attacked from a troll, I would make a quick round email letter to large corps who may be potentially the next target03:16
wolfspraulbut I doubt this will ever happen because the troll made a big mistake in going after the small fish first03:16
wolfspraulyes, definitely03:16
wolfspraulcustoms has databases etc.03:17
wolfspraulhow else could it work?03:17
wolfspraulso they have databases of brands and official importers03:17
wpwraknice service :)03:17
wolfsprauland for patents I would think they get lists from sisvel too as to which brands are OK03:17
wolfspraulgerman customs office has 34,000 employees03:18
wolfspraulbut it's not enough to keep every 'customs gate' at Frankfurt airport staffed03:20
wolfspraulbut no worries, actual professional smugglers would never use modern communication networks to find such tiny holes as the gate at Germany's largest airport only having a phone (!) to call a customs officer if you need one03:20
wolfspraulthe absurdity of those structures is a topic in and of itself, I guess03:21
wpwrakoh, i'm sure profession smugglers are in good shape in that arms race. it's the amateurs who get caught.03:21
wolfspraulbut as long as the monthly paychecks keep coming, we don't need to worry about those 34k people anymore...03:21
wolfspraulI saw those empty gates myself03:22
wolfspraulat smaller airports you already have working hours mo-fr 9-5pm or so03:22
wpwrak(empty gates) with people passing ? or just closed ?03:22
wolfsprauland if your airplane lands outside of those, say a chartered airplane from, let's say south america, then a nice poster reminds you to call a number if you need a customs agent03:22
wolfspraulwith a phone!03:23
wolfspraulthis is what they do officially Werner03:23
wolfspraulyou don't know how crazy reality is already03:23
wolfspraulthey are 'appealing to the honesty of travelers' with this innovation03:23
wpwrakinternational travel isn't entirely unknown to me ;-)03:23
wpwrakat most places, they have random controls03:24
wpwrakat some places, they control everyone03:24
wolfspraulin Germany they have a phone and a nice poster explaining to you what you should do03:24
wpwrakhaven't been to any airport where they wouldn't at least have the possibility of checking international passengers03:24
wolfspraulnot everywhere, but at some gates in Frankfurt - very funny I think03:24
wpwrak(although this is quite often some sort of racial profiling)03:25
wolfspraul"Die Bundeszollverwaltung reagiert aufgrund anhaltenden Personalmangels mit der Einrichtung von Telefonen an den unbesetzten Kontrollstellen. Reisende können nun telefonisch einen Zollbeamten bestellen, der nach einiger Wartezeit an der Kontrollstelle erscheint und eine Kontrolle bzw. Abfertigung durchführt. Diese Vorgehensweise sorgte im Juli 2010 für heftige Kritik. Der Zoll erklärte dazu in einer Stellungnahme, man appelliere mit diesem Konz03:25
wpwrakheh ;-)03:25
wpwraksounds like "dienst nach vorschrift" :)03:26
wpwrakbut maybe that's for some eu-internal traffic03:26
wpwrakwell, no, it's outbound traffic. it's before the security check03:26
wolfspraulkeep dreaming :-)03:27
wolfspraulI'm not against that anyway03:27
wolfspraulhey I live in China :-)03:27
wolfspraulthe whole culture here is like that03:27
wolfspraulthere's a front door with a lot of bells and whistles03:27
wpwraksure. that's for people who are leaving and are carrying something they don't want to have troubles bringing back home.03:27
wolfsprauland there's a back door03:27
wolfspraulthe ones inbound are equally unstaffed, some of them ("personalmangel")03:28
wolfsprauland I guess now this has already spread from smaller airports to Frankfurt03:28
wolfspraulat smaller airports they have these absurd posters already for many years03:28
wolfspraulso if you have a whole chartered airplane full of drugs, you just need to make sure you land on a saturday or sunday...03:29
wolfsprauland you have to make sure nobody tips you off, that part is still working03:29
wpwrakat most places, customs mainly seem to play a role in catching enough of the really bad stuff. they do, from time to time. maybe enough to keep the threat credible.03:29
wolfspraulmy favorite in frankfurt was that there was a wide line of carousels for arriving luggage. and at the front over a distance of maybe 100m there were 2 customs exits.03:30
wpwraki get to meet the bad cases when something trips up at customs here. like people bringing a suitcase full of luxury watches and such.03:30
wolfspraulon one side it was staffed, on the other side (50m to the left) it was unstaffed (just walk through)03:30
wolfspraulI found out by accident because I had to walk over to the lost luggage office, and then I just left via the unstaffed one03:31
wolfspraulbut most people on that plane from china were dutifully searched just 50m to the side03:31
wpwraknaw, customs rarely search03:31
wolfspraulno no. Germany is learning some China culture.03:32
wolfspraulso on the official line, the 'bad things from China' travelers, they are being searched very thoroughly03:32
wolfspraulbut taht doesn't mean that some german culture would be there still ("personalmangel"), meaning that you need to walk a bit to the side for the unstaffed gate, if you want to03:32
wpwrakstill, you have to calculate risk of detection times cost of detection minus value of smuggling. as long as this is positive, or at least you think it is, customs win.03:32
wolfspraulthat's where Germany and China meet...03:32
wpwrakfunny that they'd look for bad stuff from china, with all the severe drug laws and such. that's usually the main concern.03:34
wpwrakwell, a fierce bark to control the sheep03:34
wolfspraulthey look for pirated movies03:36
wolfspraulpirated pharmaceuticals03:37
wolfspraulyou can make a lot of money importing antibiotics from China to Germany03:37
wolfspraulfor example03:37
wolfsprauland there seems to be a growing market to sell them for cash in Germany too03:37
wolfspraulI've seen a whole suitcase full of pharmaceuticals - they were arguing whether it's for personal use or not :-)03:38
wolfsprauland since you can buy movies on the street for 50 cents here, some people bring their whole collection with them, that's a field day for customs03:38
wpwrak(suitcase full of pills) nice ;)03:39
wpwrakso it's all about drugs and IPR. maybe we the legal system should just take the hint and make both illegal ;-)03:40
wpwraks/we //03:44
uncloudedis it possible to reflash just u-boot and the kernel?  I did so thinking it would use the old root fs but when I boot the NanoNote it says "e to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)" is this related to the fact I've not yet re-flashed mtd2 or is it a separate problem?04:13
uncloudedthe latest u-boot and kernel from http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/latest/ that is04:14
fusinhi qiots ;)07:41
fusinSunny day, but have to do some 'homework' :(07:43
kyakunclouded: what is your rootfs size?07:54
kyakyour "old" rootfs, that is07:55
uncloudedkyak: 256MB.  I don't know what was wrong but when I left reflash-ben.sh do its thing it all just worked07:55
kyakunclouded: so that's the problem.. in latest kernels rootfs size had changed to 512 Mb07:55
kyaknow that you reflashed rootfs, too, you are good to update just bootloader and kernel any time you wish07:56
kyak(see the options of reflash-ben.sh)07:56
kyakunclouded: updating rootfs is a good idea anyway, your's seemed to be a little bit outdated :)07:57
uncloudedI forgot that reflash-ben.sh changes the sizes of the devices as well.  you're right: it's 512MB now07:57
uncloudedkyak: very out of date.  I've not touched the Ben in a while now07:58
kyakunclouded: yep, it's been a while now :) but i'm still very much enjoying your work with setfont2 and nightsky :)08:00
uncloudedkyak: thank you for saying so.  setfont2 is a love-hate thing it seems since it doesn't support colour08:01
kyakyou are right; i accepted that setfont2 can't be used just everywhere.. sometimes color is must have08:03
kyakunclouded: regarding your problem with alsa-lib08:04
kyakthere is a patch http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/alsa-lib/patches/002-versionsort.patch08:04
kyakso you shouldn't have this problem actually.. make sure you are using the latest openwrt-packages git (master)08:04
kyakthis patch can't go upstream openwrt because versionsort() is available in uClibc 0.9.32.. So we had to override alsa-lib package from our feed08:06
uncloudedkyak: thanks for the suggestion.  the problem ended up being that alsa-lib from the "packages" feed was being preferred over the "qipackages" feed, so when I copied the 002 patch to the alsa-lib from OpenWRT then it worked for me08:06
kyakalso make sure that openwrt-packages repo is the first line in feeds.conf08:06
kyakoh yes, what you said is also an option08:06
uncloudedreally?  I thought they did some magic upstream so that it now works with older or newer uClibc08:07
kyakin general, putting qipackages feed on top of feeds.conf is preferred :)08:07
kyakcause we have some other packages to override...08:07
xiangfukyak: do you have the "MPlayer-r33341.tar.gz" in your local.08:08
kyakunclouded: hm.. i'm not aware of any upstream regarding alsa-lib :)08:08
uncloudedkyak: I tried putting qipackages at the top and it picked up the OpenWRT one anyway.  weird08:08
uncloudedkyak: xMff referred to https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/2688808:08
xiangfukyak: I got an error about create "MPlayer-r33341.tar.gz" in buildhost. so I would like ask if you already have that in your local :)08:08
kyakunclouded: you might need to rm the feeds/ dir and recreate it from scratch (make package/symlinks)08:09
kyakunclouded: ah, yes, that would work well! but i guess we haven't picked that commit in our repo08:10
kyakxiangfu: regarding the buildhost, you should check the overlapping cronjobs :)08:10
kyakxiangfu: i noticed that the "trunk" full build from 12 May got interrupted by 13 May build08:11
xiangfukyak: yes. changed it to */3 :)08:11
kyakxiangfu: but your problem with MPlayer is because you didn't pick the latest commit during build08:12
kyakthe ffmpeg git revision been fixed again..08:12
kyaksome time after your build had started08:12
xiangfukyak: ok. thanks for the info. then it's should works fine this time,08:13
kyakxiangfu: yup, should work fine08:13
xiangfuthis one: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-05132011-1900/08:13
xiangfukyak: ok. thanks for the info.08:13
kyakwell, since the patch in the ticket https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9047 is finally accepted, we can just remove alsa-lib from openwrt-package next time we catch up with upstream backfire08:19
uncloudedhey xiangfu, how is the netsurf port coming along?08:24
xiangfuunclouded: I think it's wolfgang found the 08:25
kyaki don't find netsurf usable, not without keymouse package08:26
xiangfuthen we just port it to nanonote. it's can run 'script' , so it's maybe a nice client for web develop 08:26
kyakits sdl interface has just few keybindings (only up/down arrows, i think).. everything else is mouse08:27
kyaki wonder if "links -g" supports javascript..08:28
kyakwith "keymouse" it's much better.. at least you can look around and follow links08:30
uncloudedkyak: does keymouse work in userspace or does it need a kernel patch?08:39
kyakunclouded: it works in userspace but needs some kernel options enabled (they are already enabled)08:40
kyakyou can just "opkg update && opkg install keymouse && /etc/init.d/keymouse start" (it doesn't start automatically)08:41
uncloudedkyak: already packaged? sweet08:42
kyakyeah :)08:42
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config-2.6.37: enable options needed for keymouse http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/221ff0909:51
lunavorax_miniHi all !10:00
qwebirc32769Hi all, Where can I find better libraries, better kernel, better tools for my nanonote?10:57
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: linux-kernel (master): add CONFIG_PROC_PAGE_MONITOR=y for cleaner DMA support http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/4cb562b11:11
dvdkjust compiled 'master' branch with config.mininimal and updated my kernel.  Just wondering, why doesn't openwrt-xburst.git in the 'master' branch build a kernel module .ipk?  now i have the new kernel, but still old modules11:18
dvdkor is this now part of base-files?11:20
kyakkernel modules are packaged as kmod-*.ipk11:23
kyakif you are referring to sound modules, they are built-in kernel11:23
kyakthey can't be kmod and monolythic and the same time :)11:24
qi-bot[commit] kyak: trunk: fix kernel keymap for VolUp/Down and Del http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5974e6b11:58
qi-bot[commit] kyak: ben-cyrillic: fix keymap for VolUp/VolDown http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/38ada8f12:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: keymouse: fix keymap for VolUp/VolDown http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3c53b0912:00
dvdkkyak: but there is no kmod-*.ipk in my bin/xburst/packages/ after 'make' finished :/12:07
dvdkkyak: does it need a setting in .config to be generated?12:07
dvdkbtw just created a Freshmeat-Entry for the Nanonote Firmware12:07
dvdkit's still awaiting approval, so many information (links etc.) that i submitted are still missing12:08
dvdkas software releases submitted to freashmeat are also shortly visible on slashdot, I hope that's going to help us get a little more publicity :)12:09
kyakdvdk: if there are no ipks, then yo udon't have any kernel modules selected to build (which is obvious since you are buildin miniaml)12:11
dvdkkyak: you mean I'd have to select kernel modules manually?  hmm.  ok now i feel enlightned :)13:13
dvdkgotta go for now13:13
qi-bot[commit] kyak: trunk: build sound modules in kernel http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5a29baa13:14
qi-bot[commit] kyak: fix typo from the previous commit -\ http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d476d0813:16
kristianpaulhttp://adrianbowyer.blogspot.com/2011/05/opennetwork.html text is not verygood at all, but i like the pic ;-)13:21
wpwrakshe looks very innocent, bordering on naive13:32
qi-bot[commit] cshore: This patch provides an image suitable for the alix2*, alix3, and alix6 headless (non-VGA equipped) SBC's. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/33f2d4813:35
qi-bot[commit] cshore: Add missed files from previous commit: This patch provides an image suitable for the alix2*, alix3, and alix6 headless (non-VGA equipped) SBC's. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/0118ba513:35
qi-bot[commit] cshore: [x86] Removed Alix.mk profile which was accidently left as an empty file applying the patch during r26879 and r26880. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/806e48f13:35
qi-bot[commit] hcg: [omap35xx] Squash uids http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/668038213:35
qi-bot[commit] hcg: [omap35xx]: Add new defconfig and profile for es variant http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b72f88013:35
qi-bot[commit] hcg: Correct libc path http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/c7cd31513:35
qi-bot[commit] Mirko Vogt: add <http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/mirror-openwrt-sources/> http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a2935f213:35
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: optimize for ben nanonote http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f446b1b13:35
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [xburst] Improve mounttime http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/8a0023b13:35
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote optimize http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/84cccdf13:35
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu:  Add-gfortran-compiler-support-to-the-toolchain http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/2faacbc13:35
qi-bot[commit] kyak: add kernel patch for setfont2 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e5c7eb513:35
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: optimize for ben nanonote http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a359f1813:35
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config-2.6.37: enable battery, disable RNDIS http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7f543fb13:35
qi-bot[commit] kyak: patches-2.6.37: support for Ben NAND partitioning http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/35dc6c413:35
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: linux kernel: add CONFIG_PROC_PAGE_MONITOR=y to allow for clean user-space DMA http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/95c91ff13:35
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config-2.6.37: enable options needed for keymouse http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5f2d54613:35
qi-bot[commit] kyak: trunk: fix kernel keymap for VolUp/Down and Del http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cb40b2113:35
qi-bot[commit] kyak: trunk: build sound modules in kernel http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a85f9e813:35
qi-bot[commit] kyak: fix typo from the previous commit -\ http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/19c8cd713:35
vladkorotnevanybody here? :p18:53
vladkorotnevmay I use a debian VM to reflash the Ben NanoNote?18:54
kristianpaulnot, should not19:08
vladkorotnevkristianpaul: why?19:08
urandom__vladkorotnev: it might not work19:14
urandom__reflashing from linux or sd-card is an better idea19:15
vladkorotnevurandom__: Yi told me that she uses a Ubuntu VM on a Mac to reflash NNs19:15
urandom__well if it works thats great but it is said that using a VM can cause problems19:17
vladkorotnevThis page http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/How_to_reflash had a notice about VMs, but when I asked Wolfgang via email, he said that it'll work and removed the notice19:18
urandom__ok good to know, so just go ahead19:20
vladkorotnevwell I'm waiting for my NN, if tracking is correct it should arrive very soon19:20
vladkorotnevbut the VM is now set up with XBurst tools and so on19:21
--- Sun May 15 201100:00

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