#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-05-04

kyakwpwrak: http://www.spectec.com.tw/sdiovideooutcard.html01:55
kyaki see the word "patented", have you checked it?01:55
kyakhaving a look at spectec's products page, i must say that these guys have mastered the SDIO..01:56
kyakSDIO WiMAX, SDIO Bluetooth, how do you like that..01:57
wolfspra1lwatch out, reality may be a different thing :-)02:07
wolfspra1lbut we all like dreams, fairy tales, etc.02:07
wolfspra1lso why not :-)02:07
wolfspra1lthe way I sell stuff is that I first make it, test it, make sure others agree with my assessment of what 'works', make sure it's in stock, make sure I have a reliable and equally tested shipping method, make sure I have a reliable and testing payment method, make sure another 100 things, and then sell it02:08
wolfspra1lnow.. I'm not the most successful salesman in the world, so something may be wrong with my approach. but spectec, especially the website, doesn't work like this :-)02:09
wolfspra1lmany oems use the web for marketing purposes02:10
wolfspra1lthey put things there to assess demand02:10
wolfspra1lto confuse competitors02:10
wolfspra1lthey put things there they know they cannot manufacture, but maybe a huge order comes in which would allow them a big investment to overcome the difficulties02:10
wolfspra1lthey manufacture a small run, knowing that the economics (yield) can never support a large run02:10
wolfspra1land so on02:11
wolfspra1lI don't even think this is necessary 'evil', as in Google evil, because that's how the entire oem/manufacturing industry works, so either one day you get it, or maybe you just don't want to know reality02:11
wolfspra1land then it's a fairy tale, written just for you...02:11
wolfspra1lnext time I'm in Taipei, I should go back to my Spectec friends, I always had good chats with them, they are very friendly and open02:12
wolfspra1lthe reality at spectec is that they have maybe 2-3 products that are really a 'hit'02:15
wolfspra1lselling well, profitable, etc. something is right with them, maybe feature set, software quality, market demand02:15
wolfspra1lspectec may not even know exactly what it is02:15
wolfspra1lthen they have another 20-30 let's say 'exploratory' products :-)02:16
wolfspra1lin various states of technical or economical dysfunction02:16
wolfspra1land hopefully before the current cash cows dry up (for whatever maybe also unknown reason), a new cash cow emerges from those exploratory products...02:16
kyakwolfspra1l: the way you described it, i now feel pityfull for spectec :)02:39
wolfspra1lwhy that?02:39
wolfspra1lthe web is used like that, that's all02:39
wolfspra1lI wrote all this without even going to spectec.com.tw :-)02:40
wolfspra1lspectec.com.tw != apple.com02:40
wolfspra1lor spectec.tw or whatever it is02:40
wolfspra1lI'm just explaining how I would translate their webpage02:41
wolfspra1lyou are implying that the stuff there 'works', but you shouldn't02:41
wolfspra1lunless you like fairy tales02:41
wolfspra1lthat's my point02:41
rjeffrieswolfspra1l just noticed numeric "1"in your irc name02:41
kyakyeah, i got you02:41
wolfspra1lif you are interested in what works, you need to have an in-person meeting with someone from spectec sales02:42
wolfspra1lthen you ask "what is really selling well?"02:42
wolfspra1l"what about those other products on the webpage?"02:42
kyakwolfspra1l: i had two sdw-823 in my life, none of them worked, so i can say :)02:42
wolfspra1l"what else are you working on that's not on the webpage?"02:42
wolfspra1lthe webpage is just a starting point/background noise for the conversation :-)02:42
wolfspra1lkyak: the second one also didn't work?02:43
kyaknope -\02:43
wolfspra1lin which way? I think most people who had one go them to work, quite well actually02:43
wolfspra1lis it the card, or something in the software stack/application?02:44
kyaki can't figure out02:44
kyakthe driver seems to work fine02:44
kyaki.e. there is the new interface02:44
wolfspra1lare you always trying with the same access point (router)?02:44
rjeffriesspectec.com.tw seems to not be a public web page02:44
kyakbut "iwlist eth0 scanning" always returns "no data"02:45
kyakwolfspra1l: there are several access points in range, but they are not seen02:45
kyaki just built the latest ks7010 driver, where lars disabled messy printk's, but it still doesn't work02:46
wolfspra1lhmm, I see02:46
kyaki remember i was able to connect to WEP access point with my first card02:47
wolfspra1lsince we are discussing spectec, the 823 was at least manufactured, I think a total of 3k maybe02:47
kyakbut this time it doesn't work.. like there is nothing in the air02:47
wolfspra1lno second run02:47
kyakthat's strange btw, i would expect a greater demand for this product02:48
wolfspra1lmany difficulties, first mechanical (the plastic comes off), then the upstream IC maker went out of business and discontinued the chip, SDIO was blocked in WinMobile due to operators request, severely decreasing market size02:48
wolfspra1lalso some problems with power consumption in some phones02:49
wolfspra1ltalk is cheap, real life is entirely different02:49
wolfspra1lSpected tried, and they always do, so I like them. but this one was too tough.02:49
kyaki see02:50
kyakblocking SDIO, too much freedom :)02:50
wolfspra1lit's precisely to stop products like sdio wifi02:51
kyakinstead of decreasing of prices, operators fight like this..02:51
wolfspra1lok I hope you still get some life out of your second 82302:52
wolfspra1lmaybe one day... at least it came for free :-)02:52
wolfspra1lI have none left now, phew02:52
wolfspra1lwifi is such a distraction02:52
wolfspra1lvery good decision to keep it out of the Ben, not try bundling/integrating, etc.02:53
kyakhow many cards did you have from spectec?02:53
wolfspra1lwe would have only raised expectations and decreased user satisfaction02:53
wolfspra1lback in the early days I bought 10 or 15 or so, and slowly gave them away02:53
wolfspra1land I went to Spectec a few times, and to Tokyo once (where the IC was made)02:54
wolfspra1lgood stuff02:54
wolfspra1land the best was the decision to keep it out, ha02:54
kyaki still think that if only Ben had wireless connectivity, you would sell many more by now02:56
kyakmaybe you could integrate that IC in Ben in the first place, that would've been the best decision02:56
kyaki'm trying to understand now the blinking LED status02:58
kyakit always blinks ~ once per second02:59
wolfspra1lyes but the problem is that we could not make it to work well03:00
wolfspra1l"if I had an ipad-like product it would sell very well"03:00
wolfspra1lgreat catch!03:00
wolfspra1lbut also insanely stupid, especially if you cannot massage your mind to the next level after some time03:00
wolfspra1lso the reason I am very cautious about wifi until today is that I know a lot about it, and how hard it is to make work well03:01
wolfspra1lthe question is not what I want, but what I think I can realistically pull off03:01
wolfspra1llooking back I'm very happy how we handled wifi on ben, very very happy03:02
wolfspra1lwe did that all right, and the future is open, and we will have great wireless connectivity in due time03:02
kyakare you talking about atben/atusb?03:04
wolfspra1lsure, that's one nice step03:05
wolfspra1lalso very hard to pull off, but is worth to focus our energy on, imo03:05
wolfspra1lmakes me wonder how tuxbrain is doing there :-)03:05
kyakit is very nice, but then again it's more like a long USB cable03:05
kyakthere is no atusb in the street or at work or in cafe03:06
kyakhe must be very busy!03:07
wolfspra1las for ben-wpan and street cafes, I can just tell you in general how I feel03:08
wolfspra1lsure I want to have a copyleft device that can have decentralized mesh ipv6 connectivity with the whole world03:08
wolfspra1lwhether you are in the Gobi desert or downtown Manhattan03:08
wolfspra1lbut well, sorry I'm no visionary enough, I cannot see right now how I can get there :-) or we even...03:08
wolfspra1lso since I cannot see the whole path, I may as well do the first step, and do that well03:09
wolfspra1lben-wpan is a nice step, I feel good about it03:09
wolfspra1lit's a lot of work to pull off03:09
wolfspra1lhardware, software, logistics, etc.03:09
wolfspra1land somehow i think after we made this step well, and are happy, we will know what 2nd step to take03:09
wolfspra1lbut I don't know now03:09
wolfspra1land I don't feel the urge to think about the 2nd step, now that the 1st step is so clear and looks enjoyable and doable03:10
wolfspra1lI leave that kind of talk to others...03:11
wolfspra1llately I'm following some efforts to utilize white-space or unlicensed spectrum better, like that PAWS ietf group03:12
wolfspra1lis all super early, but at least it gets me thinking03:12
kyaki prefer having some kind of plan and thinking several steps ahead.. However, sometimes it's just moving in a darkness and your approach proves to be more reasonable03:13
wolfspra1lok let's make a big plan then03:13
wolfspra1l1. ben-wpan03:13
wolfspra1l2. world domination03:13
wolfspra1lwe leave out the steps in between, not fun to think about them now03:13
kyakthere is something missing in between :)03:13
wolfspra1ldid we discuss the eff open wireless movement/call here?03:14
wolfspra1l10 years late I think, but not a bad thing of course. better late than never :-)03:14
kyaknever heard of that03:15
kyak"We need WiFi that is open and encrypted at the same time!" <- good point, actually03:17
kyaki would've opened my wifi long ago, if it was possible to keep its encryption at the same time03:18
wolfspra1lyes sure, but this kind of idea comes 10 years late03:19
wolfspra1lwe, as in free software people, entirely and completely and irrevocably screwed that up03:19
wolfspra1lso seeing this kind of announcement by the EFF in 2011/04 also makes me laugh a little03:19
kyakbetter late than never they say03:20
wolfspra1lin fact the big thing that is being pushed into all routers now is exactly the opposite, called WPS03:20
wolfspra1lyes for sure, so let's hope they really speed up now on this03:20
wolfspra1lnice first step, they realized there may be a need for an 'open wireless movement'03:20
wolfspra1lgooooood! :-)03:20
wolfspra1lwe should have realized this in the late 90's03:21
kristianpaul(10 years late), he, yeah :-)03:21
wolfspra1lat least after 10+ years of thinking, we came up with a nice headline for the press release03:22
wolfspra1l"open wireless movement" - cool!03:22
wolfspra1lif we continue like this maybe in 100 years we will actually have such a movement? :-)03:22
wolfspra1lthat wps stuff is being pushed into routers for several years, and goes exactly in the opposite direction as the things proposed by the eff03:22
wolfspra1lin fact I have this nagging feeling that someone at the eff unwrapped a new router, found out about 'wps', didn't like it, and wrote an angry 'call for open wireless movement' letter03:23
wolfspra1lbut no. it must be better than this. surely/hopefully.03:23
kyakactually, i think that the number of wifi spots is decreasing in the last few year (though it's not related to openness). I remember it was problematic to find a cafe with wifi when i was in Frankfurt last year.. Perhaps mcdonalds is the only place that has both free wifi and toilets :)03:23
wolfspra1lwifi is done03:24
wolfspra1lit's a home technology, and wps will seal that off nicely too03:24
wolfspra1lthis all has been settled years ago03:24
wolfspra1lif you need wireless data now, you have 3g03:24
kyakyeah, we have it.. but it's somewhat expensive03:25
kyakespecially when you are abroad03:25
wolfspra1lI'm one of those guys roaming around to find free wifi, I feel old/left-behind :-)03:25
wolfspra1llike I said - that train has left, we completely and fully screwed it. so the next thing must be something else, done right from day 1.03:25
wolfspra1land no, I don't expect a global movement of ben-wpan cafes03:26
wolfspra1lbut we'll find something :-)03:26
wpwrakkyak: ah, it's patented. so it must be good ;-))05:01
kyakwpwrak: indeed :))05:13
wpwrak"Full-color (YUV 4:2:2) 1024 x 768". okay, they have twice the number of bits ubb-vga gets with a few resistors :)05:18
wpwrakah, interesting. tuxbrain already has the pcbs. operating in stealth mode ;-)07:12
wpwrak(bare pcbs, not assembled yet)07:12
wolfspraulwpwrak: sorry I had to go offline last night10:33
wolfspraulkristianpaul posted a link to this battery hack http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Dc168_pic3.jpg10:33
wolfsprauland you asked something about a 'contraption' that I didn't understand10:33
wolfspraulmaybe your question is answered by looking at the other two pictures I uploaded10:34
wolfspraulfor completeness - I forgot to take a picture before I took the simple casing around the whole thing apart, it looked roughly like this http://www.dinodirect.com/rechargeable-lithium-battery-12v-4800ma-cctv-camera-d-12480.html10:37
wolfspraulthat's an even bigger version, maybe more cells or bigger cells. I should buy one and cut it open too :-)10:37
wolfspraulthe casing was made out of thing cardboard plus a blue tape around that10:38
wolfspraulthin cardboard10:38
wpwrakwolfspraul: (battery) wow, amazing. it is really that simple :) i wonder how long it lasts13:41
wpwrakwolfspraul: (casing) excellent. at least they're consistently cheap ;-)13:41
kristianpaullets see14:35
kristianpauloh, it uses RTK !!14:36
kristianpauland seems active14:36
kristianpaulhopefully will be a better alternative to rtklib :)14:36
kristianpaularggg, no, it is written in java and matlab,, how sweet that? ;)14:37
wpwrakbe happy that it's not Mathematics and Fortran ;)14:44
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: please tell wolfgang about issues with load balancing in LiIon (or - for that topic - any secondary) batteries in series15:51
DocScrutinizermay go pooof on first complete discharge, as one of the cells will get reverse charge before the others are empty15:52
DocScrutinizercharging same issue15:52
DocScrutinizerweakest cell gets overcharge and thus gets even weaker15:52
DocScrutinizerserializing LiIon without active load balancing is a sure way to wreck things15:53
rohwell. there are chips for that15:54
DocScrutinizerand keeping protective circuit on each cell doesn't really help (consider cutout due to overvoltage during charge, which will cause full charge voltage across that circuit)15:55
DocScrutinizerroh: look at this: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Dc168_pic2.jpg15:55
DocScrutinizeryeah :-S15:55
rohsomebody doing stupid things voiding all warranties and insurances15:55
DocScrutinizerbegging for boom15:56
rohwell.. on discharging it could be ok. on charging it will go boom15:56
DocScrutinizeryeah, ruin weak cell on discharge, make it blow on next charge15:57
rohovercurrent/undervoltage should have a working cut-off even with 3 bms chips(if there were any)15:58
rohive seen too many bms-less batterys already... cheap chinese clones burning down houses.15:59
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: cute. a weaponized flashlight :)16:05
DocScrutinizertube bomb grenade - don't mess with LiIon unless you're sure what you're doing16:06
DocScrutinizerpipe bomb actually16:06
DocScrutinizerhell that critter easily can kill ya16:07
DocScrutinizerand I just mention as a sidenote my appartment that burned down probably because of a battery defect as well (though presumably in NiCd)16:09
DocScrutinizerwolfgang should remember how my face looked when I first visited TPE16:10
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: so you put on an appropriately warlike look ;-)16:16
rohDocScrutinizer: got a photo from then? i know some good meme-artists *veg*16:17
DocScrutinizerI probably scared half TPE crew to death16:17
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: did you wear black ?16:17
DocScrutinizerI actually got photos from the day before I left to TPE, but those are NDA16:17
DocScrutinizersure, I always wear black16:17
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: very good. scythe ? :-)16:18
rohDocScrutinizer: they were easily scared anyhow. i still remember how weird and uncomfy the room was feeling when i had a 'meeting' with the sw and hw crews16:18
wpwrakroh: oh, take them for a few beers every now and then and they loosen up :)16:18
DocScrutinizerif they dare to join16:19
roh5 or 6 engineers in tpe, and they were scared by me... atleast that was what i was feeling that moment.. very weird. then i sent sean and harald out of the room by just using eye-contact... which didnt make it better *sigh16:19
DocScrutinizerI *see* it16:19
rohwpwrak: while walking out sean gave me some money and i took the guys out for lunch.. on the way back it was MUCH better with them. they were really anctious.16:19
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: oh they do. on the day of the great announcement, i went to 7-11, brought a few cans of beer to the office, and we had a little stick-your-middle-finger-up drinking session at soon-to-be-former-work :)16:20
DocScrutinizeroh there been several great announcements16:21
rohstill funny when thinking bout it. i just thought they will never talk freely while harald and sean stayed in that room. about the message which came along by sending them out... i didnt think enough16:21
DocScrutinizerMy greatest one was when I resigned16:21
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: the one about the u-turn16:21
DocScrutinizerstill lost16:22
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: when gta03 was cancelled and half the people laid off16:22
rohi should have taken that plastic-vodka-bottle 'spiegelflasche' with me.16:22
DocScrutinizeru-turn in gta03?16:22
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: u-turn of the company16:23
DocScrutinizerthat's been when I already was in retirement16:23
DocScrutinizeralmost, or actually16:23
roh .oO(i wish i could retire too)16:24
DocScrutinizerI think we planned to meet in TPE, and then I've been told I can cancel my ticket16:24
DocScrutinizerI'm just curious waiting for trisoft's book about the whole OM story ;-D16:26
wpwraktrisoft ?16:27
DocScrutinizerthe first german reseller16:27
rohwell.. on the other side.. without om we wouldnt have so many develkits for osmocom-bb16:28
rohwell.. only those from motorola/compal then16:28
DocScrutinizer[2011-04-29 21:33:56] <TRIsoft> Aber dann hab ich zumindest schonmal zwei Leute, die mein Buch kaufen :D16:30
DocScrutinizer[2011-04-29 21:34:18] <TRIsoft> Da ist dann viel Sex, Drugs, aber nur wenig Rock'n'Roll drin :-)16:30
DocScrutinizeraccording to TRIsoft's tales there's been a not exactly helping "new investor" sometime in dec/jan and that caused the final u-turn16:33
DocScrutinizerI cloudy recall similar info directly from/still-in TPE16:33
larscand this investor was sponsored by mircosoft?16:34
DocScrutinizerprolly, or by HTC or whomever ;-D16:34
DocScrutinizerinvestors always been kinda top secret stuff16:35
DocScrutinizerso I dunno16:35
larsci see16:35
DocScrutinizerFIC and it's owner been an obvious initial VC-source16:36
DocScrutinizerTRIsoft seems to know a lot more16:37
DocScrutinizerthat's why I'm waiting for the book16:37
DocScrutinizerwolfgang of course also knows all the gory details, but I think he doesn't like to talk about it16:38
DocScrutinizerall I can tell is it went from "if you think we need that 20k$ device, fly over to HK and get it" in december, to "sorry you're too expensive" in January16:41
DocScrutinizerBTW with a week time and that friggin CMU200 I'd actually also been able to spot the #102416:44
DocScrutinizerbut as andy always said: our brain is our best analyzing tool, so we spotted #1024 without cmu20016:45
DocScrutinizerooh, the last two lines probably sounded a bit unlinked - the 20k$ device: http://www2.rohde-schwarz.com/product/cmu200.html16:55
DocScrutinizera used one of course, new ones are ten times that price16:56
wpwraki was just about to comment on that price ;-)17:00
DocScrutinizerI'd have bought it if it hadn't been a slow version not capable of upgrading to 3G17:03
DocScrutinizerR&S CMU200 ¬7,500 - Vollständig getestet mit Garantie. ->http://www.google.de/search?q=cmu200&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-817:07
wpwrakif a device that normally costs 200k is sold for 7.5k, that usually means that it's broken, stolen, or that they never intend to ship it ;-)17:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga: added draft for "productized" design http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6f5a8cc17:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga: added draft of "productized" assembly http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/3b4f72d17:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga/Makefile (vga-ben-back.png): also generate the PCB back side image http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6c3adaf17:18
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: ack, or it's hopelessly obsolete and probably stripped down on optional modules17:18
wpwrakmaybe it's just the packaging material ;-)17:21
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: at least on R&S you can get the ser#, call R&S service, and get full specs and history of the particular device. That's what I did for the 20k$ units from HK, and R&S told me they can't get upgraded to 3G as the "PC" inside was too lame17:21
wpwrakand the warranty certificate :)17:21
wpwrakah well. maybe get a few USRPs and hack a CMU200 equivalent yourself :)17:22
DocScrutinizerwoohoo, your bitbanged CVBS? ( commit^^^)17:24
wpwrakit's vga. don't you read the list ?17:26
DocScrutinizernot really17:26
larscwpwrak: btw, you should really make that a kernel driver17:27
DocScrutinizertoo many lists, too much noise, no proper filters (got no secretary ;-D)17:27
DocScrutinizerof course VGA, dunno why I slipped to CVBS17:28
DocScrutinizerwell, probably creating CVBS from that output would simplify a lot of things - half pixelclock17:29
wpwraklarsc: i thought you'd say that ;-)17:29
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: well, here are the pictures: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/17:30
DocScrutinizerseen them I think17:30
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: for a description of what exactly they show, you have to read the list ;)17:30
larscwpwrak: btw. you can do pretty nasty stuff with the dma.17:31
larscfor example you can use dma to start a dma transfer17:31
larscin your case a timer triggered dma transfer which starts the mmc dma might get you improved precision17:32
wpwraki'm not sure i can use a timer to start dma in this case. that would mean making the timer the dma "source". but then i'd lose the flow control of the mmc controller.17:34
larscyou use two dma channels17:34
larscone for the timer17:34
larscone for dma17:34
DocScrutinizerwow, how hackerish17:34
wpwrakso how would one channel start the other ?17:34
DocScrutinizerset dma ctrl regs via dma17:34
larscthe timer based dma just writes to dma control registers to start the mmc dma17:34
wpwrakoh ;-)17:35
larscin theory you could put all your register access in one big dma chain and keep it running without having to use the cpu17:35
DocScrutinizerlarsc: I feel familiar with your thinking, and I like it :-D17:36
DocScrutinizerthat's exactly what the "...and synergy" attribute in my "title" refers to17:37
wpwrakinteresting idea. i wonder what bus access latency does to it, though. but interesting nevertheless :)17:37
larsclooking at your code it should be pretty straight forward to turn it into a scatter gather dma 'program'17:47
larscthe dma controller can be thought of as a microprocessor which only knows read, write and jump17:48
larscif you combin this with self-modifing code you can do interesting things17:48
wpwraklarsc: you have a dirty mind ;-) well, the first step would be to find out how badly dma latency is. that may be a problem. with the mmc controller, i give the dma a lot of time to move the initial data into the fifo, and it seems that it still sometimes just barely manages18:00
wpwraklarsc: the cpu is easier to handle once all my code is in the cache18:01
wpwraklarsc: i'm also not sure if all kinds of dma transfers can write to internal registers. the manual explicitly says that some transfers are with external memory, so that could mean that you couldn't use them with registers. of course, the manual often misleads, so ...18:02
DocScrutinizercoffee - FINALLY :-)))18:25
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: all these years of research in the mad scientist's alchemy lab finally paying off ? ;-)18:26
DocScrutinizernah, just managed to move my lazy ass to the shop the get milk, alas second grade quality ESL shit only18:26
DocScrutinizerthe "expect shit, loser" errr extended shelf life cooked-to-death milk18:28
wpwrakbuy a cow then ;-)18:34
Action: larsc had fresh milk each day for the last week 18:36
wpwrakwent to a farm ? :)18:37
larscstayed with my family which has a farm18:37
kristianpaulnice :-)18:37
fossrox_cool :)18:37
kristianpaulmy grandma also bringme coe milk from time to time :-)18:38
kristianpauli need to learn hwo to do cheese btw..18:38
kristianpaulmay be larsc already know? :)18:38
larscwell in theory18:39
larscbut i doubt it would taste well if applied to practice18:39
wpwrakexercise some different hacking kills :)18:42
DocScrutinizerfirst kill a cow and get the rennin18:53
DocScrutinizerkilling cows, that's truly new hacker skills ;-D18:54
Action: kristianpaul strongly disagree18:54
larscfortunately for the cows i don't eat any meat18:55
DocScrutinizerwell, hope you also don't wear anything made of leather?18:57
DocScrutinizerjust plastic soles made of oil which basically is mio-year old dead fish ;-P18:57
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: do you eat your clothes often ? :)18:58
DocScrutinizeronly occasionally :-D18:58
DocScrutinizersome milk brands taste like made of old clothes18:59
DocScrutinizerdunno what this stuff really is made from19:00
wpwrakground cow bones and sea water ?19:01
DocScrutinizerany of you know where on this world this phoneme transcription is used: RESUME(3)   R EH Z AH M EY19:02
rjeffriesristianpaul makine soft cheese is so easy. basically heat the milk to a certain temp, then stir in lemon juice. it will curdle (get lumpy) and then you strain through strainer of "cheesecloth" add salt. it is delightful19:09
Action: kristianpaul hive five larsc 19:10
rjeffrieswolfspra1l have been reading your comments suggetsing wifi is not important. not sure why you have that opinion19:10
rjeffriesas to wifi being too hard, virtually every current generation smartphone supportw wifi, and does so rather well.19:11
rjeffriesATben/ATusb are great stuff, but do not provide ubiquitous connectivity. thus they are not a single-ended solution, y19:12
rjeffriesbut Iagree that ship has sailed, that train left the station. if next-ben does not offer a reasonably priced wifi connectivity option (can be plug in, via USB) then you miss any chance at a large enough market opportunity to be relevant19:15
DocScrutinizerrjeffries: regarding this point I'm quite on same page19:19
DocScrutinizeron topic of USB-plugin: I considered quite some time to get me the TI zoom-II, even to retrofit 3G mdule myself when they declared it pre-birth EOL due to RoHS, and I stopped tinking about that immediately when I had to learn the SD card protrudes from the case some 5..10mm19:21
DocScrutinizerso USB plugin for WLAN is fine only when the USB receptacle is in a bay so nothing can break when stashing the device in your pocket19:25
DocScrutinizeror you go the way I planned for gta04: have two latch holes and fixing threads left and right of USB receptacle, so you can durably *mount* and extender designed to fit to original case19:27
rjeffriesDocScrutinizer although full size USB connector is bulky for a small device, to my knowledge none of the interesting add-ons such as wifi are offered with the micro USB or MiniUSB connector.19:57
DocScrutinizersure not, as micro/mini-USB not even today is meant for a host with full capabilities. Best you can get is micro-AB-F which is supposed to support OTG and so wouldn't supply enough power per se for a wkan dongle19:59
rjeffriessince sharism does not own tooling for current Ben case, to my mind a next gen Ben can and should use a new physical design for enclosure.19:59
rjeffriesmy "dream" next gen dev board (as precusror to something packaged in a slick fashion, would have full size USB.20:00
DocScrutinizermuhaha now I know here in Germany we also got *brillint* engineers. Our railway refurbished an old bridge, now that they wanted to reopen it they noticed they can only use trains without passengers as they forgot those passengers weight when doing the official paperwork so the bridge isn't certified for it.20:19
DocScrutinizera few days later they noticed they can't use the bridge at all, as they used the weight of an empty waggon for cert, but forgot about the engine20:20
DocScrutinizerdamn I wish they gave me 1% of what this BS will cost them, to check their planning and calculations20:21
Jay7DocScrutinizer: :)))20:21
lekernelDocScrutinizer: haha, the Deutsche Bahn are champions anyway. their train reservation and pricing systems is a joke, too. and there was this mess 2 years ago in Berlin with the s-bahn wheels using crappy steel which began to get cracks in them21:26
lekernelnow I have learned and always take the car in Germany21:26
wpwrakrjeffries: (usb) i agree with full size for a host port. that's what you need in the end anyway, so anything different just means that you have to carry a cable21:47
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: (bridge) nice ;-) i suppose they could still push the wagons without engine, as they do or used to do when composing trains, no ? or maybe just detach the machine and get a few horses ;-)21:49
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