#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2011-04-28

rozzinIs anyone selling spare batteries for Ben?00:47
jlamotheDoes anyone know what would cause the HCl/H2O2 solution I prepared for etching PCBs to lose potency?  I'm quite certain it hasn't been saturated with copper yet (it's still light green).01:49
jlamotheIt worked just great a couple weeks ago when I first used it.01:50
jlamotheThe board I have in there now has been sitting for close to an hour and barely anything's happened to it.01:51
wpwrakjlamothe: that's loss of oxygen. the peroxide doesn't hold it very well.01:53
jlamotheI'll try adding a little peroxide...01:54
wpwrakjlamothe: you can make it work again by adding more peroxide, preferably some with a high concentration (the pharmacy stuff is very diluted, so you'll soon have too much water)01:54
jlamotheYeah.  I was warned to avoid adding too much peroxide.  :/01:58
jlamotheI imagine you can get rid of some of the water by letting it evaporate, but you'd probably lose oxygen faster than the water.01:59
wpwrakyeah, and you probably lose Cl as well02:01
jlamotheIs there somewhere I can get more concentrated peroxideY02:01
wpwrakevaporation is nice for disposal, though. just let the volatiles get out and throw away the crystals02:02
jlamotheI heard of someone who uses one of those air pumps for fish tanks instead of adding extra peroxide.  Wouldn't that damage the pump?02:03
wpwrakhmm. not sure what the word for this kind of shop is in english. similar to a pharmacy but less pharmaceutical yet not quite plain industrial :)02:03
wpwrakdepends on whether the pump has any exposed metal. well, if it has some at the beginning ;-)02:04
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2.c: make frame buffer fully VGA-sized; more cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/625d98705:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: move image generation out of the main program http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/8643e4505:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: added test image generator (option -t) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/19f43a705:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: added support for showing a PPM image http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/080978a05:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga/ppmimg.c (pattern): corrected the pattern for un-doubled pixels http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/f0eda5105:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: replaced threshold-based color mapping with color cube model http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6558f5605:10
primaryOn the qi-nanonote, with optimizing mplayer and such, is standard def (PAL/NTSC) playback possible?08:30
primaryOh cool, keyword search: "<dvdk> cool, with -ao alsa and increased audio buffer size, cpu load drops by another few percent, now NTSC material plays really well."08:32
primaryeven with mplayer, too08:32
lekernelmilkymist one + camera => http://www.vimeo.com/2296610309:58
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga.pro: commit pcbnew preferences (from local layout experiments) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/c8f19a013:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2.c: move display resolution to #defines http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6414d9213:16
wpwrakwolfspraul: fyi, i've updated schhist_update_all and added ubb-vga: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/ubb-vga/13:20
wolfspraulI will update the doc13:21
akiwiguyHmm. Ubuntu Unity is actually alright13:22
akiwiguyDock is a total rip from OS X though13:22
kyakthey should've called it Ubuntu OS X13:23
wpwrakwolfspraul: cool, thanks ! i haven't updated the entry page either (http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/). where would i find it / its origin, in case it's generated ?13:25
wpwrakkyak: oh apple, sue me harder ? :)13:26
wolfspraulwpwrak: it's just manually written index.html or .php on the server13:27
kyakwpwrak: fortunately, it seems that their lawyers are not as good as their marketing13:27
wpwrakkyak: more bark than bite ? that would be good :)13:41
rejoncheck this guys, wpwrak https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/04/open-wireless-movement14:57
wpwrakrejon: hmm. agreed on that networks should be open. i don't quite buy the link-layer encryption, though. that's more an integration issue, and since you already have others there (e.g., traffic control), why not just get rid of link-layer encryption ? (and accept the risk of traffic analysis)15:41
rejonwpwrak how is buenos aires?15:41
wpwrakrejon: also, perhaps one of the main reasons why people don't open their networks is the fear of becoming a proxy target for law enforcement if someone does something bad over their connection15:42
rejoni think that is the main reason15:43
rejonesp. in europe15:43
wpwrakrejon: but that's a problem that needs to be solved by lawmakers, not by engineers. unfortunately.15:43
rejonnoticed this in berlin is the issue15:43
rejonsome cafe's were targeted15:43
wpwrak(buenos aires) sunny and warm today. winter still hasn't quite arrived yet.15:44
wpwrakin fact, a bit too sunny for my vga experiments ;-)15:44
rejonmaybe i try to stop in there at end of june15:45
rejoni will speak at FISL in brazil15:46
wpwrakrejon: great ! hmm, i quite forgot about fisl as a potential target for showing off ben stuff.15:49
rejonyou should come15:50
rejonif you want to speak, i can accelerate15:50
rejonmy friend is organier15:50
wpwrakrejon: heh, lemme think about it :)15:51
wpwrakchecking the other major local conference ... jornadas regionales ... they're a bit late, end of october. this time in salta. hmm, either a very long drive or a short flight.15:53
rejoni will speak about milkymist and copyleft hardware15:53
wpwraknicely confusing: fisl12 = 2011 ;-)15:55
wpwrak"PUC Events Center" ... that would be "Pontifical Catholic University". good. that's in the city. they had it at least once at some large complex near the airport. that was nasty - half an hour taxi drive just to get there from the city.16:00
wpwrakrejon: (copyleft hw) how technical will you get ?16:07
rejonnot very16:08
rejonyou want to be techy man16:08
rejoncould tag team16:08
rejona 45 min to hour talk16:08
rejoni can handle the cheesy things, you can handle the tech16:08
rejonor we could do two separate ones16:09
rejonis fine16:09
rejontag team16:09
rejoncopyleft hardware16:09
rejoni want us to get into brazilian government16:09
rejoni have lots of contacts there16:09
wpwraktwo is probably better - more coverage :)16:09
rejonyeah, sure wpwrak16:09
wpwrakrejon: i could cover things like the typical project workflow, tools, and my set of gadgets (ubb, wpan, vga)16:17
wpwrakthe "emergent topics" track would look appropriate16:21
rejonok, can you make it?16:29
rejoni'll email them now if you want to16:29
wpwrakrejon: not so quick :) do you know what they expect speakers to provide ? they have a "call for papers" but it doesn't even mention papers :)16:35
rejonyah, they are chaotic16:36
rejonno need for a paper16:36
rejonjust presentation16:36
rejonthere are two paths: 1.) submit stuff or 2.) know people16:36
rejoni always rely upon #216:36
rejonusually i should say16:37
wpwraka very south american approach ;-)16:37
rejoni'm fake chinese16:39
wpwrakbut yes, reviews can sometimes be funny. i think on my first fisl, i sent them two or three proposals. one was about booting. that one got the lowest "competence" rating. i found that interesting :)16:41
wpwrak(chinese) ah yes, there too :)16:41
wpwrakrejon: thanks ! sent a patch :)17:24
wpwrakrejon: and now i realize why i didn't think of FISL - they moved the date by about two months. in past years, it would have been just around now.17:25
kristianpaul(brazil) hmm that remenber me i give away some mm1 stickers to some people from there at labsurlab, there was a guy very interested on mm1 visual effects related with video-in..17:31
kristianpauli'll ping him and point rejon will be there doing live demostration?? ...:-)17:32
wpwrakrejon: do you plan to set up a permanent demo ?17:32
rejonyeah, we can probably get it set up for one of their night events17:33
rejonits a blast there17:33
kristianpaulhey rejon you also can talk with some people from fsfla Alexandre Oliva i think he always get invited to fisl too17:33
wpwrakrejon: okay, so you've been there already. then you know :)17:33
kristianpaulspare a own projector for mm1 is really needed i had troubles waiting to get free time to use one at lsl.. :/17:34
Jay7rejon: have you any responce from Richard or Tim?17:35
rejonJay7 not yet17:36
rejonkristianpaul wpwrak any intros via email good17:36
rejoni'm going to try and meet with more people in brazil this trip17:36
kristianpaulokay why not17:37
rejoni don't have a projector17:38
rejoni need to pick one up like wolfspraul that fit in my mm1 case17:38
kristianpaul:o, you said wolspraul hacked mm1 case to fit a projector inside?17:38
kristianpaulah, sorry, no i was reading backwards.. ;)17:39
Jay7rejon: say me projector model after ;)17:39
wpwrakrejon: maybe ask the organizers if they can lend you a large lcd screen. or refer you to one of the user groups who set up permanent stands.17:39
rejoncool wpwrak please comment on that email17:39
rejonthose friends are in charge of FISL17:39
wpwrakrejon: comment on what mail ?17:40
rejonthe one i intr'd you to the FISL ppl17:42
rejonif you want those things17:42
wpwrakrejon: ah equipment ... no, i don't need any. but you would need some if you wanted to demo mm1 outside the talk17:44
wpwrakrejon: also, you'd want to have someone around to watch things for you17:44
wpwrakrejon: hence the idea of connecting with one of the user groups. they have their tables in a common room and are already taking care of making sure things don't grow legs. so you could share the infrastructure.17:45
rejonyeah, i have all my http://libregraphicsmeeting.org friends there...i bet they can help sort out17:45
lekernelhaha, yeah, fitting a small led dlp projector into the m1 case could work17:46
wpwrakperfect :) then you'll just ask them to find someone who can bring his tv :)17:46
lekernelnice for quick demos :)17:46
wpwrakor maybe bolt a small lcd screen on the top ?17:47
kristianpaulyeah lcd on the top plus touch technology :D17:56
kristianpaulmake it thinner later, and voala!17:57
urandom__is rejon also behind sharism.ORG or is this wrong http://rejon.org/bio/ ?18:00
lekernelas I understand it, he's behind the sharism.org, but sharism.org has little (if anything) to do with sharism.cc18:05
rejonlekernel sounds skeptical ;)18:28
rejonthere are a few people behind sharism.org, myself included18:28
lekernel,HF AJDJ(318:29
kristianpaulsharism at work is not enought lekernel ? ;-)18:30
lekernelkristianpaul: ?18:30
lekernelwell, as Rop Gonggrijp puts it: "We will have to learn to navigate a world in which every imaginable aspect of being genuine or sincere has 10.000 spindoctors working on how to transplant it to the fake turds that run things."18:31
lekernelso forgive me if I'm always skeptical of everything :-)18:32
lekerneland to be honest, sharism.org does look suspicious to me18:36
kristianpaulhe, i agree with the last one ;)18:36
wpwrakhmm, the MIPS "lw" instruction encoding seems a little silly. they could have extended the offset range by two bits by omitting the two LSBs, which are probably almost always zero anyway19:26
lekernelwpwrak: time to switch to lm32? :-)19:29
lekernelyou could even fix those things yourself =]19:29
wpwraklekernel: yeah, tempting ... fix the arch instead of working around its flaws :)19:36
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2.c (line, frame): don't pass prefetch pointer but just use *p http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/e94b3bb19:50
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2.c: corrected and improved loading of the first TX word http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/4480b3219:50
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga.sch: fixed typo in comment http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/cb5a6bd19:50
urandom__rejon could you try to explain what sharism.org is about when you have some time?20:08
rejonurandom__ attempt to increase sharing between people20:16
rejonurandom__ lekernel i agree its good to skeptical20:16
wpwrakurandom__: it seems to be about selling concepts most of us would agree with using language that normally heralds the arrival of copious amounts of bovine feces :)20:16
wpwrakurandom__: of course, there must be some part of the population who responds to just this sort of stimuli :)20:17
rejonpart of the reason i put some energy into sharism is because i lost faith in support of CC licenses from living in developing world20:17
rejonmost of art and innovation i like is illegal in the eyes of copyright20:17
rejonand realized that magic reason many were into CC is because of sharing20:18
rejonits on purpose vague ideology20:18
wpwrakrejon: what would make that art illegal ?20:18
rejoncopyright is a first world problem20:18
wpwrakrejon: yeah, in the developing world, you "just copy, right ?" :)20:19
urandom__its on purpose vague so people just think "wtf is this about?!"? ;)20:19
rejonurandom__ ha20:19
rejonno, its just a bit of advocacy towards getting people to share more20:19
rejondon't overthink it20:19
rejonnot jesus 2.0 or 2.1 or anything ;)20:19
urandom__or is it just bad chinese or english translation, i mean really the texts on that sad are only "wtf", what kind of people like them?20:20
urandom__on that site20:20
rejonyeah, many of them need to be nuked20:21
rejoni let some of these things go laissez-faire on projects to encourage participation20:21
wpwrakhttp://sharism.org/about would get a pretty decent bullshit bingo rating :)20:21
rejontotally agree wpwrak20:21
urandom__rejon how do you define sharing?20:21
rejongood question20:22
rejonshared use of a resource20:22
rejonbtw, yesterday was i guess national sharing day in the usa20:23
urandom__a material or imaterial resource or both?20:23
rejoni would say both20:23
rejonyes, i agree that one can rip to shreds vague ideas like sharism with its lack of specifics20:24
rejonthat is one reason why CC is good20:24
rejonI should rather say, *effective*20:24
rejonbecause it has a specific solution to a specific problem20:24
urandom__uhm really no offence but for someone who made a site like sharism.org you dont seem to have put many thought in it20:24
wpwrakalready the beginning is bad: "SHARISM is a Mind Revolution". makes you wonder what sort of metaphysics they're trying to sell. about the only thing that's revolutionary is how we - as a culture - seem to have forgotten such basic things. but that's more revolting than revolutionary.20:25
rejonurandom__ ha :)20:26
rejonwpwrak yes, those are from isaac mao20:26
rejonthe lines between pata-philosophy and practicality are scattered in that text20:26
urandom__rejon so what are imaterial resources and how do you share them?20:27
rejonbtw I don't have an OCD20:28
wpwrakhmm yes, pataphysics has exactly that ring ...20:28
urandom__you dont have a obsessive-compulsive disorder?20:29
rejonurandom__ i'm being a jackass20:29
rejonits a joke20:29
wpwrakrejon: so your target audience are the mystics ?20:29
rejonwpwrak could be20:30
rejonurandom__ immaterial resources, lets do a google search20:30
urandom__nah i am not asking google i am asking you20:31
urandom__you put you name on that sharism.org site and i gues you are pro-sharism and i am interested in it so you should be able to properly answer me20:32
rejonyou are right urandom__20:33
wpwrakrejon: i'm asking because for non-mystics, that sort of approach only produces a great amount of suspicion, meaning that they either stop paying attention, or are so busy looking for the deception that they'll hardly pay attention to the good things that are also part of the message20:33
rejonwpwrak i totally agree with you as well20:33
rejonthe way I usually work on projects is go more general, bring the interested parties and then start organizing it a bit more20:34
rejonget people more involved20:34
rejonthen start drilling down to specifics20:34
rejonso I appreciate urandom__ wpwrak your comments20:34
rejonlike you guys, i'm bopping around lots of tasks...20:34
rejonso immaterial resources...20:35
rejonI'm more likely to try and structure a dive into this and learn your specific knowledge than answer your question urandom__20:36
rejonand try and get you involved to define sharism20:36
rejonbut, that is me20:36
rejonand my approach...20:36
wpwraka top-down approach is often good, agreed. i just find it a bit odd that you'd pick, in an area where most of the pioneering work comes from the technological-rational sector, language that is usually applied for concepts that largely contradict the defining elements of that sector's culture20:37
rejonwpwrak I've been trying to weed a lot of that language out20:38
rejonthe original word and concept came from http://isaacmao.com20:38
rejonchristopher adams and I got involved because we were friends of isaac's and made this book http://freesouls.cc20:38
wpwrak(weed out) good :) maybe it'll be palatable for us technocrats after a few more scrubbings :)20:38
rejonfrom that book, sharism by far the most popular concept, however vague it is20:39
rejonand, we were living in china at the time20:39
rejonsooo, it resonated even more20:39
rejonsince, the normal terminology for these concepts is polarizing and mostly blocked20:39
rejonby biz, govt, people, etc20:39
rejonsooooooo, you got three main people cutting text down and more20:39
urandom__http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Mao ah i see20:40
rejonso there is a lot of text around, of varying angles of real and fake discourse20:40
rejonbelieve it or not, my main charge is to make it real ;)20:40
urandom__might there be a problem because Mao isnt a native english speaker as i would gues?20:41
rejonthere are some things20:41
rejonbut there is a lot of hippy shit in the writings too20:41
rejonthe original text in the book is hacked up pretty hard core20:41
rejonso, i tried to simplify the concept somewhat, but at the same time, seeking a real implementation20:42
rejonanyhow, i didn't mean to write that much...i'm american so I'm kind of laying out stuff for you euros ;)20:42
rejonwearing my opinions and flaws on my sleeve ;)20:42
rejonlekernel pretty psyched about having feed support for mm120:45
rejonand the visual synth angle is good on it20:45
urandom__rejon back to immaterial resources, may i help you? i gues you mean ideas and stuff with it, so yeah people naturally like to share their ideas and thoughts, that sharism stuff wants to increase sharing so it wants people to communicate more? (no i am not going to help you more)20:45
rejon:) great urandom__20:47
rejonexactly :)20:47
urandom__well thats 1. trivial 2. i am far more interested in people communicating more effective (reducing misunderstandings and such), i really cant see any need to let people communicate more on general, so i totally disagree20:49
rejonabstract ;)20:50
wpwrakreturning to http://sharism.org/about, i think a better structure would be to have a gentle introductory paragraph, and then treat one clearly identified (in boldface) concept in each subsequent paragraph. the complexity of the current one upsets the reader.20:50
rejonthat is from the sharism forum20:51
urandom__rejon what do you mean with "abstract"?20:51
rejonin china20:51
rejoni agree with you wpwrak20:51
rejonurandom__ i generally agree with you , need more specific discussions to make progress in communication and negotations20:51
rejonbut, you have to start somewhere general and work down20:52
urandom__nah its not general, its wrong, sory20:52
wpwrakthe 2nd paragraph is again too diffuse. makes reference to very distant areas, alluding they connect, but not having enough substance to convey why one should assume this. (it's not even so much about not accepting the message, but being unable to identify the message)20:52
rejonhahaha, you guys crack me up20:53
rejonwe have a bug tracker btw?20:53
rejoni'm all for making the text and the concepts more specific20:53
rejonjust like hardware or software projects20:54
rejonstart somewhere big, and start breaking down the tasks, and solving the little problems to solve the big one20:54
urandom__a bug tracker for text, wow now i am impressed20:54
rejonnot just text, the whole damn project20:55
urandom__rejon problem is you cant start big if you dont have any meaningfull substance to begin with20:55
rejonha, there is meaningful substance20:55
rejon*increase sharing*20:55
rejonbetween people20:55
wpwrak3rd paragraph (social applications) slowly gets to a point but it still very meandering. also, the conclusion doesn't follow from the rest.20:55
urandom__that not meaningfull at all rejon, if my mother increases sharing with her friends about what royal fuckheads are doing thats not productive at all20:56
wpwrak4th paragraph (legal) suffers from forced modernity (you don't need hip new social applications to set licensing terms you like) but ends with a strong insight20:57
wpwrak5th (mobile) doesn't seem to add much substance. you'd probably be able to share almost as much if radiowaves didn't exist. particularly if you're the sedentary kind ;-)20:58
rejonman, you guys would love art criticism and writing ;)20:59
wpwrak6th: so it's about access to political power ? not putting forward a new philosophy ? (or, less pompous, a new view of things)20:59
urandom__"Sharism promises to be the politics of the next global superpower. It will not be a country, but a new human network joined by social software. " so its about communism?21:00
urandom__wpwrak well a philosophy is always political, philosphy should be about changing things and not only about interpreting them21:02
wpwrakurandom__: also, if you ask the man on the street to translate "social software" and put the translation back into that text, you'll get the statement that our future world will be rules by facebook and twitter. now that's what i call a heartily dystopian vision ;-)21:02
urandom__ah i was going to say that, worldwide dictatorship of facebook/google21:03
wpwrakurandom__: yes, but there's also the power-grabbing side of politics. so you have to tread carefully21:03
urandom__well you need political power (abstract not as in "we need a free softwarte party) to change stuff21:05
wpwrakurandom__: the way it is expressed, one could understand it as politics being the main objective, with the rest just byplay21:06
wpwrakurandom__: you need power to change something against resistance, yes. but you don't necessarily have to start with politics21:06
wpwrakurandom__: and then there's the question what role politics play on your path. e.g., do you engage in activities of a primarily political nature ? or are you satisfied if the political powers refrain from getting in your way ?21:08
urandom__well you start with philosophy/science to understand how something works and how it should be changed21:08
urandom__ah i know what you mean, yeah the politics shouldnt be a goal in itself21:09
wpwrakurandom__: e.g., open source. that's a grass-root phenomenon. the political wing only gained strength much later, propelled by the technical success.21:09
urandom__politics should be method not the goal -> thats the point is it?21:11
urandom__though i think you cant see that too seperated, free software is always political of course21:13
wpwrakurandom__: should politics even be the method ? that's but one approach. you can also get people to adopt an idea/concept without much institutional support21:14
wpwrakyes, you can't separate things completely. obviously, if you believe in open source, you'll dislike, say, any tightening of patent laws.21:15
urandom__i am not talking about politics as in parlamentary politics but in a much broader sene21:15
rejon(sorry dudes in conf. call)21:15
wpwrakurandom__: not sure if an overly broad definition of politics is useful :) if what you do doesn't involve politicians or people assuming the role of politicians, then it's probably not really politics :)21:17
urandom__i have to quote wikipedia "Politics (from Greek À¿»¹Ä¹ºÌÂ, "of, for, or relating to citizens"), is a process by which groups of people make collective decisions. " , that should give you an idea21:17
urandom__well if you only talk about parlamentarism, i dont care about it at all mostly21:18
wpwrakyes, but A isa B doesn't mean B isa A21:19
wpwrakthere are also non-political processes that affect collective decisions. like fashion, earthquakes, some soccer team winning.21:20
wpwrakor some research discovery, apple releasing the iWhatever (well, that's fashion), ...21:21
urandom__uhm yeah, but i think we lost track21:22
wpwrakall of this may effect people's expectations with respect to politics, but that's a secondary effect21:22
wpwrakperhaps ;-)21:22
urandom__what point do we actuelly argue now,? we use different definitions of politics21:22
wpwrakanyway, what i'm saying is that "politics" often has a negative connotation. so i would avoid that word unless it very accurately describes an essential element of the ... system, process, whatever you call it21:24
urandom__nah i dont really agree, avoiding words is in most cases bad, because  you you might tend to make terms up that are totally senseless just for not having to use the word, well it depends i would say21:27
urandom__if your readers dont understand the connotation you used and you made it clear means the readers are fuckheads anyway21:28
wpwrakanyway, that last paragraph has a lot of things that sound wrong. e.g., "superpower". that can easily be read in a Machiavellian sense.21:28
urandom__yeah i agree21:28
urandom__actuelly that mao guy should better focus on writing free software, seems he might be more talented in it than in making up nonsensical ideologies21:30
wpwrak(avoiding words) there's avoiding words and avoiding words ;-) not saying "black" (people) because it has become a politically incorrect word is silly, because you just end up substituting it with other words (unless you actually stop thinking they're inferior)21:30
wpwrakbut using words that have undesirable connotations is a bad idea, because people may pick up the wrong vibe21:31
wpwrakheh ;-)21:32
urandom__nah you can change undesirable connotations but the text has to make clear how you use it21:34
rejonhis writing is getting better all the time21:34
rejonyou guys shoudl copy and paste this log in and email it to him21:34
rejonhe would like that21:34
rejondon't just blow energy in here ! :)21:34
urandom__he can join here21:35
urandom__rejon actuelly problem is that reinventing his own ideology i a very bad idea, i more for learning from past and looking if there are already movements you can work with21:39
wpwrakrejon: (irc log) feel free you copy and paste :)21:40
urandom__make some free software movement for developing countries wing ;)21:41
urandom__though GPL-heads have also nonsensical ideology but yeah others story21:41
larscwho is reinventing his own ideology?21:42
urandom__that sharism.org guys are making up their own ideology, larsc21:43
wpwrakurandom__: a movement for countries where people's minds are more developed than their economy ;-)21:43
urandom__wpwrak well that would be basically communism or zeitgeistmovement, which is basicaly the same21:45
wpwrakurandom__: uh, that's your interpretation of what's desirable :) someone who believes in hardcore dog-eat-dog capitalism and has good arguments (that's the catch :) may also find an open-minded society welcoming21:47
urandom__"hardcore dog-eat-dog capitalism" nice, we say Rauptierkapitalismus in German, something like beast capitalism(?)21:49
rejonhow's BEN-WPAN?21:49
urandom__predatory capitalism might work, well back to qi-hw21:50
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: instead of pointers to registers, use pointer plus offset (via macros) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/957491d21:52
wpwrakurandom__: "predatory" sounds good, yes21:52
urandom__though it is always predatory, so just capitalism i fine i gues21:53
wpwrakrejon: a little dormant while i'm having fun with vga ;) i'm also waiting for an update on the production status from tuxbrain21:53
rejonthe vga is nice21:53
urandom__have i ever said that ben-vga thing is awesome? well its really great, i would really like to see more stuff like that21:54
wpwrakurandom__: i think it can also be expansive, largely without being predatory. e.g., think of the .com bubble. there, the motor for a lot of development was capitalism, yet it was really more about occupying new territory than fighting others21:55
wpwrakurandom__: thanks :) yes, i'd also like to see more stuff like that :)21:55
wpwrakurandom__: people here still seem to be a bit too shy about actually making hardware21:55
urandom__well i dont really know enough about hardware to make something like this21:56
wpwrakokay, the vga is messy. the hardware is simple enough, but it's timing the entire system properly that's hard21:57
urandom__wpwrak i am not saying that capitalism is always is evil, at some point of developmet it can make sense though after that point it is more blocking development like it does in most western countries now21:58
wpwrakbut they key to making hardware is to start somewhere. the more you do, the more you learn, and the more complex things you can attack.21:58
urandom__yeah i really dont know how to start, i might buy some small fpga to hack it21:59
wpwrakurandom__: (capitalism) yes, agreed. one should perhaps alternate between capitalism and socialism ;-)22:00
wpwrakan fpga is quite a heavy start :)22:00
urandom__yeah it is but it is also very interesting22:01
wpwrakmaybe start with something easier. a row of leds. a learning IR remote control. this kind of stuff. it's simple and you get familiar with the basics (hw, sw, and tools). at the next level, you don't have to worry about these things anymore.22:01
wpwrak(fpga interesting) that's certainly true22:02
urandom__are ther any sets you can buy for this simple stuff? with docs and stuff22:04
urandom__but well the fpga thing will work out, i always do projects that are far to huge for me and grow on them22:06
wpwrakah, excellent. the ingenic mips has a WAIT instruction. may that's the secret key to making the timing more accurate :)22:08
wpwrakurandom__: heh, i always do those i think would be easy and they grow on me ;-)22:09
rejonha http://j.mp/iJ25tL22:25
wpwrakall the boys love Sue :)22:35
rejonchinese companies suing each other in eu!22:36
wpwrakrejon: better than european companies suing each other in china :)23:11
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