| kristianpaul | 2 + 2 = 5 result? ;) | 00:25 |
|---|---|---|
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: very good. i think we can release you soon :-) | 02:35 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: fmit: mark BROKEN, depends on opengl http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/84ea804 | 03:17 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-files: config.full_system, add liblo liblo-utils http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/815369e | 03:47 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: I've found a chip similar to cc2500, cc2420: a single-chip folded dipole-capable 802.15.4 transceiver | 04:10 |
| wpwrak | lemme see what's wrong with it ... | 04:11 |
| wpwrak | ah yes, HUGE. 48-QFN | 04:12 |
| wpwrak | also expensive | 04:12 |
| wpwrak | and you still need a balun for an asymmetric antenna | 04:13 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: huge?.. well, maybe, if you live in a 10-mil world | 04:13 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: and it's not so expensive. $5 isn't a lot, I think | 04:14 |
| wpwrak | USD 5 if you buy a ton of them ... | 04:15 |
| wpwrak | btw, 10 mil is also huge ;-) | 04:16 |
| wpwrak | now .. how do calibrate the clock of that wretched ben ... | 04:18 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: no. $5 if I buy a single one. it's cheaper if I'll buy more | 04:20 |
| whitequark | hehe | 04:21 |
| wpwrak | hmph. i wonder how your shops get those prices. do you have negative taxes in russia ? | 04:21 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: http://www.terraelectronica.ru/catalog.php?ID=789&Search=1&Text=cc2420&Gde=2&PageS=1 | 04:21 |
| whitequark | it's in russian, through the interface should be self-explanatory | 04:22 |
| wpwrak | MOQ 10, no ? | 04:23 |
| whitequark | huh? | 04:23 |
| whitequark | ah no | 04:23 |
| wpwrak | ah, unit price and then two qty discounts, i see | 04:23 |
| whitequark | the leftmost column is for 1-9 parts, then for 10, then for 50 | 04:23 |
| whitequark | yeah | 04:23 |
| whitequark | and if you'll make an order through their website, you'll get additional 7% off | 04:24 |
| wpwrak | they should open a branch in argentina :) | 04:25 |
| whitequark | well, I myself wonder how they achieved such a result, too. in all other places (except maybe the radiomarket, which is... probably not completely legal) these chips are more expensive (up to three times) | 04:25 |
| wpwrak | do they have all the stuff they list also in stock ? | 04:28 |
| whitequark | the last two columns are: "in stock" and "in warehouse" | 04:29 |
| whitequark | the items which are "in stock" you can go and get right now | 04:29 |
| whitequark | for those in warehouse, you'd need to wait for 2-3 day | 04:29 |
| whitequark | *days | 04:29 |
| wpwrak | ah, so they only have 1 of the cheap cc2420 and 3 which are a bit more expensive ? nothing in the warehouse | 04:30 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: they often buy more. it's fine for prototyping, and if you'll want to get a lot of these (100+ in their terms is "a lot"), they'll quickly find more without any troubles | 04:31 |
| wpwrak | maybe they simply buy surplus stock. that can be cheap. | 04:31 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: not quite. they mainly _sell_ their own surplus stock, as their main job is selling components to companies | 04:32 |
| wpwrak | ah, that would also work | 04:32 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-txrx.c (main): option parsing in PER test mode segfaulted http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/5e19655 | 04:34 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools: new utility atrf-xmit for fast transmission tests http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9ab94a5 | 04:34 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-txrx.c (receive_message, receive_pcap): also ignore IRQ_AMI http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/16b095c | 04:34 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xmit.c (usage): the "packets" argument is optional http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c4167d8 | 04:34 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/lib/atrf.c (select_driver): "default" selects the default driver http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/a15ab43 | 04:34 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/atrf-xtal/Makefile (clean, spotless): also clean up if target is the host http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6eebf37 | 04:34 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/Makefile (upload): copy tools to /usr/bin instead of $HOME http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/d7d2bd4 | 04:34 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/: some elements of a production test system (in progress) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/04db5e0 | 04:34 |
| whitequark | they also have funny packaging. once I bought 2 atmegas, and they: 1) got a big, 50x20 black plastic bag and sealed it hermetically 2) inside was a folded PET bag of similar size, and sealed hermetically 3) inside was a foiled PET, sealed bag with _air evacuated_, 4) inside of what was a piece of soft plastic (dunno how that is called; you'll often find these e.g. under the motherboard in a box), and inside of that was, finally, 5) a smal | 04:37 |
| whitequark | also inside was a really big sack of silicagel, probably 50 times bigger than the chips... | 04:38 |
| wpwrak | whitequark: hmm, kinda dubious :) | 04:39 |
| whitequark | they have had some warehouse rules changed recently | 04:40 |
| whitequark | well, maybe they bought a lot of these bags or something like that... :) | 04:40 |
| wpwrak | maybe bags are actually their main business :) | 04:47 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: aha, I now understand their evil plan! They are buying a lot of bags and give them out for free combined with some "orders". The income is then negative, but when combined with negative taxes... | 04:50 |
| wpwrak | maybe there | 04:52 |
| wpwrak | 's some law forbidding the sale of empty bags, so they need to put something inside. the chips are probably industry rejects :) | 04:53 |
| whitequark | so that's why they make such huge stacks of them | 04:53 |
| wpwrak | it would also explain why you needed so many tries to get your board working ;-) | 04:53 |
| wpwrak | the approach wouldn't be so bad. a batch gets rejected if a sample finds more than N out of M bad parts. that means that there are still M-N good ones, probably a lot more. so just sell them to people who won't notice if, say, 10% of the parts they get are actually broken. | 04:55 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: hah. well, no, that was stupid me not noticing the "connect to Vdd or leave floating" part... poor FETs inside. | 05:03 |
| kyak | xiangfu: hi | 06:05 |
| xiangfu | kyak: Hi | 06:05 |
| kyak | xiangfu: i noticed that the keycodes have changed in trunk in comparison to backfire. For example, PgUp and PgDown used to be code 87 and 88, now they are 114 and 115 | 06:06 |
| kyak | that is why scrolling in console was not working | 06:06 |
| kyak | and also adjusting of sound didn't work | 06:07 |
| kyak | do you have an idea where it comes from? | 06:07 |
| xiangfu | this is because they are mapped in different key. | 06:13 |
| xiangfu | 87--> F11 88-->F12 | 06:13 |
| xiangfu | 114-->F13 115-->F14 | 06:13 |
| xiangfu | look into" linux-2.6.32.27/arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c" line 126. | 06:14 |
| kyak | xiangfu: i see. We are missing this in board-qi_lb60.c of 2.6.37.4 | 06:21 |
| kyak | there was "#define KEY_QI_VOLUP KEY_F11", now it is "#define KEY_QI_VOLUP KEY_VOLUMEUP" | 06:24 |
| kyak | i think this is the problem | 06:24 |
| kyak | KEY_F11 is 87, but KEY_VOLUMEUP is 114 | 06:25 |
| kyak | (or 115, whatever) | 06:25 |
| kyak | this also causes problems in SDL apps, like nightsky or gmu | 06:26 |
| kyak | they know that Ben's keys VolUp and VolDown are mapped to F11/F12 | 06:26 |
| kyak | now it's not like this | 06:26 |
| xiangfu | kyak: http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c?v=2.6.37;a=mips#L148 | 06:36 |
| xiangfu | kyak: since the upstream is KEY_VOLUMEUP. change our code. follow upstream. | 06:36 |
| kyak | "change our code" - adapt the console keymap, and keymaps of many other apps, like mplayer, nightsky, gmu (the first i had on mind, there are others). In some of them the mapping is hardcoded | 06:38 |
| kyak | i don't understand the upstream change. | 06:38 |
| kyak | who cares if it is KEY_VOLUMEUP or KEY_F11 | 06:38 |
| kyak | it works already as KEY_F11, why need to change the _name_? | 06:39 |
| xiangfu | http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c?v=2.6.37;a=mips#L188 <--also this line is not correct. | 06:45 |
| xiangfu | it should be "KEY_GRAVE" | 06:45 |
| kyak | yeh, it's another difference | 06:47 |
| kyak | http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/apostrophe.html | 06:48 |
| xiangfu | kyak: then it should be "ACUTE ACCENT" and shift should be "GRAVE ACCENT" | 06:54 |
| xiangfu | kyak: right? | 06:55 |
| xiangfu | kyak: I think we can try to create a small patch for the KEY_F11. for make other apps work. I will look into that :) | 06:55 |
| kyak | xiangfu: yeah, exactly right | 06:58 |
| kyak | thanks ) | 06:58 |
| xiangfu | kyak: ok. I will change that. | 06:58 |
| kyak | xiangfu: btw, were your patches for trunk accepted by openwrt upstream? | 06:58 |
| xiangfu | no. | 06:59 |
| xiangfu | I think they maybe not notice that. I will send another email again today. :) | 06:59 |
| kyak | all right :) | 07:00 |
| jow_laptop | kyak: which ones? | 10:46 |
| kyak | jow_laptop: there were four patches mailed to openwrt ML on the 25th of March | 10:54 |
| kyak | by xiangfu | 10:55 |
| kyak | as an attempt to reduce the difference between qi's backfire branch and openwrt's trunk | 10:55 |
| kyak | in preparation of moving to openwrt's upcoming release :) | 10:56 |
| kyak | https://lists.openwrt.org/pipermail/openwrt-devel/2011-March/010055.html | 10:57 |
| kyak | and next three messages | 10:58 |
| jow_laptop | ah | 11:09 |
| jow_laptop | 4/4 should be synced against the current trunk sysctl.conf | 11:10 |
| kyak | yeah, probably it should.. alsmost a month has passed | 11:10 |
| jow_laptop | it does not change that often | 11:12 |
| jow_laptop | but I mean this: https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/26204/trunk/package/base-files/files/etc/sysctl.conf | 11:12 |
| kyak | jow_laptop: hm, shouldn't xburst/base-files/etc/sysctl.conf completely overwrite package/base-files/files/etc/sysctl.conf? | 11:31 |
| kyak | (trying to understand why and how they should be synced) | 11:31 |
| jow_laptop | yes, but the one you create is outdated from the beginning | 11:37 |
| jow_laptop | it touches sysctl keys that do not exist in recent kernels | 11:37 |
| kyak | ah all right, i got your point | 11:38 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: libtcod for ascii-paint http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/7ec9e95 | 13:11 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: ascii-paint, uses ASCII characters instead of pixels to draw images http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3a40dc0 | 13:11 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/: on-going development http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/cd59b85 | 13:15 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: libatrf: renamed driver specification argument from "arg" to "spec" http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/4fa909d | 13:15 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools: atrf-id option -s to retrieve driver spec, with necessary infrastructure http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2961482 | 13:15 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/Common: get real driver spec with atrf-id instead of assuming "default" http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/fc26eb0 | 13:15 |
| wpwrak | whitequark: ultrasound cleaner acquired :) | 14:53 |
| rjeffries | coughs, but covers his mouth, nit wishing to disturb those who are sleeping | 17:04 |
| rjeffries_ | wolfspraul have new sales of Ben declined? the list is very quiet, no newbies asking for help there are here. | 19:19 |
| kristianpaul | rjeffries_: ah, you bought a nanonote recently? :-) | 19:24 |
| wpwrak | maybe the wiki is just so good by now that they'll all figure it out by themselves | 19:24 |
| kristianpaul | :D | 19:24 |
| rjeffries_ | Microtouch would make a Most Excellet periferal for Ben: https://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51&products_id=330 | 19:24 |
| wpwrak | rjeffries_: so, attach it and show us a video with how great it works with the ben | 19:25 |
| kristianpaul | somebody will end here as soon get flash corrupted, at least wiki also get a good tutorial about the carbon rubber and power/boot sequence of the nanonote | 19:25 |
| rjeffries_ | kristainpaul thank you for asking! I borrowed a Ben for a couple of weeks. long enough to realize it assumes a more intelliegent, more well-informed user than me. | 19:26 |
| rjeffries_ | when I used it via SSH so I had a bigger keyboard and a larger display, it was a clever little linux box | 19:27 |
| rjeffries_ | wpwrak you have the wrong guy. But maybe Tuxbrain will do so after he returns from his sabatical or wherever he is hiding | 19:27 |
| kristianpaul | good, you can blog about that,and tell people your experiences with it | 19:28 |
| kristianpaul | btw i think tuxbrain is not the person that hides, at least you mean other thing rjeffries_ ? | 19:28 |
| rjeffries_ | wpwrak I wonder if the 8:10 and SPI will provide an adequate connection to Microtouch | 19:28 |
| kristianpaul | rjeffries_: try it ! | 19:29 |
| rjeffries_ | if that would work, then for $70 one could add full USB and wouch interface to Ben | 19:29 |
| rjeffries_ | kristianpaul which part of IANAE do you misunderstand? ;) | 19:29 |
| kristianpaul | the whole word :-) | 19:30 |
| rjeffries_ | tuxbrian is missing in action is my observation. maybe he is being held prisoner by the vendors who build up ATben and ATusb boards? who can say for sure> | 19:30 |
| rjeffries_ | I anm not an engineer. | 19:31 |
| rjeffries_ | s/wouch/touch | 19:31 |
| kristianpaul | me either | 19:32 |
| kristianpaul | anyway.. | 19:32 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: (tuxbrain) well, he it at least not responding. i've been expecting an update on the pcb side for over a week (there were a few pending questions), and i sent him a mail with more questions a few days ago. well, maybe his family obliged him to stay away from the keyboard for some easter holiday. not too uncommon in europe. | 19:33 |
| kristianpaul | (amily obliged him to stay away from the keyboard for some easter holiday) that make sense | 19:34 |
| kristianpaul | yeah | 19:34 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak: i bet as in here,same in spain, not too much people work in holly week :-) | 19:35 |
| kristianpaul | rjeffries_: no ofense, but not going to the univesity or having a profesional degree in a specifc is not excuse for not doing fun/diy/play with electronics and software | 19:37 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak: i ran out money past week, for now i cant afford make the 10PCB batch, i'm waiting a project to start so i can get some free to invest money :-) | 19:38 |
| kristianpaul | 10PCB atben* | 19:39 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: :-( well, the PCBs apparently aren't ready yet either. maybe next week. | 19:42 |
| kristianpaul | ah | 19:42 |
| kristianpaul | i tough | 19:42 |
| kristianpaul | wel i miss one week of commit logs.. | 19:42 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: not commit log ;-) fabrication | 19:43 |
| kristianpaul | ah | 19:43 |
| kristianpaul | thats good ! | 19:43 |
| kristianpaul | for a moment i tought you were still polishing something.. | 19:43 |
| kristianpaul | wich is not bad of course :-) | 19:43 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: the order has been given to make them, the fab sent a proposal for the panelization a bit more than a week ago, we sent some comments, and then i don't know what happened afterwards. if they proceeded with making the boards swiftly, they should be done now. | 19:44 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: (polishing) oh no. that time is past ;-) final gerber out was march 31 | 19:45 |
| kristianpaul | yeah yeah, i read that mail, was a thread in qi i remenber | 19:45 |
| wpwrak | rjeffries: you're staying true to your character ;-) | 23:52 |
| --- Thu Apr 21 2011 | 00:00 | |
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