#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-04-20

kristianpaul2 + 2 = 5 result? ;)00:25
wpwrakkristianpaul: very good. i think we can release you soon :-)02:35
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: fmit: mark BROKEN, depends on opengl http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/84ea80403:17
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-files: config.full_system, add liblo liblo-utils http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/815369e03:47
whitequarkwpwrak: I've found a chip similar to cc2500, cc2420: a single-chip folded dipole-capable 802.15.4 transceiver04:10
wpwraklemme see what's wrong with it ...04:11
wpwrakah yes, HUGE. 48-QFN04:12
wpwrakalso expensive04:12
wpwrakand you still need a balun for an asymmetric antenna04:13
whitequarkwpwrak: huge?.. well, maybe, if you live in a 10-mil world04:13
whitequarkwpwrak: and it's not so expensive. $5 isn't a lot, I think04:14
wpwrakUSD 5 if you buy a ton of them ...04:15
wpwrakbtw, 10 mil is also huge ;-)04:16
wpwraknow .. how do calibrate the clock of that wretched ben ...04:18
whitequarkwpwrak: no. $5 if I buy a single one. it's cheaper if I'll buy more04:20
wpwrakhmph. i wonder how your shops get those prices. do you have negative taxes in russia ?04:21
whitequarkwpwrak: http://www.terraelectronica.ru/catalog.php?ID=789&Search=1&Text=cc2420&Gde=2&PageS=104:21
whitequarkit's in russian, through the interface should be self-explanatory04:22
wpwrakMOQ 10, no ?04:23
whitequarkah no04:23
wpwrakah, unit price and then two qty discounts, i see04:23
whitequarkthe leftmost column is for 1-9 parts, then for 10, then for 5004:23
whitequarkand if you'll make an order through their website, you'll get additional 7% off04:24
wpwrakthey should open a branch in argentina :)04:25
whitequarkwell, I myself wonder how they achieved such a result, too. in all other places (except maybe the radiomarket, which is... probably not completely legal) these chips are more expensive (up to three times)04:25
wpwrakdo they have all the stuff they list also in stock ?04:28
whitequarkthe last two columns are: "in stock" and "in warehouse"04:29
whitequarkthe items which are "in stock" you can go and get right now04:29
whitequarkfor those in warehouse, you'd need to wait for 2-3 day04:29
wpwrakah, so they only have 1 of the cheap cc2420 and 3 which are a bit more expensive ? nothing in the warehouse04:30
whitequarkwpwrak: they often buy more. it's fine for prototyping, and if you'll want to get a lot of these (100+ in their terms is "a lot"), they'll quickly find more without any troubles04:31
wpwrakmaybe they simply buy surplus stock. that can be cheap.04:31
whitequarkwpwrak: not quite. they mainly _sell_ their own surplus stock, as their main job is selling components to companies04:32
wpwrakah, that would also work04:32
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-txrx.c (main): option parsing in PER test mode segfaulted http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/5e1965504:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools: new utility atrf-xmit for fast transmission tests http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9ab94a504:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-txrx.c (receive_message, receive_pcap): also ignore IRQ_AMI http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/16b095c04:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xmit.c (usage): the "packets" argument is optional http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c4167d804:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/lib/atrf.c (select_driver): "default" selects the default driver http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/a15ab4304:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/atrf-xtal/Makefile (clean, spotless): also clean up if target is the host http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6eebf3704:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/Makefile (upload): copy tools to /usr/bin instead of $HOME http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/d7d2bd404:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/: some elements of a production test system (in progress) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/04db5e004:34
whitequarkthey also have funny packaging. once I bought 2 atmegas, and they: 1) got a big, 50x20 black plastic bag and sealed it hermetically 2) inside was a folded PET bag of similar size, and sealed hermetically 3) inside was a foiled PET, sealed bag with _air evacuated_, 4) inside of what was a piece of soft plastic (dunno how that is called; you'll often find these e.g. under the motherboard in a box), and inside of that was, finally, 5) a smal04:37
whitequarkalso inside was a really big sack of silicagel, probably 50 times bigger than the chips...04:38
wpwrakwhitequark: hmm, kinda dubious :)04:39
whitequarkthey have had some warehouse rules changed recently04:40
whitequarkwell, maybe they bought a lot of these bags or something like that... :)04:40
wpwrakmaybe bags are actually their main business :)04:47
whitequarkwpwrak: aha, I now understand their evil plan! They are buying a lot of bags and give them out for free combined with some "orders". The income is then negative, but when combined with negative taxes...04:50
wpwrakmaybe there04:52
wpwrak's some law forbidding the sale of empty bags, so they need to put something inside. the chips are probably industry rejects :)04:53
whitequarkso that's why they make such huge stacks of them04:53
wpwrakit would also explain why you needed so many tries to get your board working ;-)04:53
wpwrakthe approach wouldn't be so bad. a batch gets rejected if a sample finds more than N out of M bad parts. that means that there are still M-N good ones, probably a lot more. so just sell them to people who won't notice if, say, 10% of the parts they get are actually broken.04:55
whitequarkwpwrak: hah. well, no, that was stupid me not noticing the "connect to Vdd or leave floating" part... poor FETs inside.05:03
kyakxiangfu: hi06:05
xiangfukyak: Hi06:05
kyakxiangfu: i noticed that the keycodes have changed in trunk in comparison to backfire. For example, PgUp and PgDown used to be code 87 and 88, now they are 114 and 11506:06
kyakthat is why scrolling in console was not working06:06
kyakand also adjusting of sound didn't work06:07
kyakdo you have an idea where it comes from?06:07
xiangfuthis is because they are mapped in different key.06:13
xiangfu87--> F11 88-->F1206:13
xiangfu114-->F13 115-->F1406:13
xiangfulook into" linux-"  line 126.06:14
kyakxiangfu: i see. We are missing this in board-qi_lb60.c of
kyakthere was "#define KEY_QI_VOLUP   KEY_F11", now it is "#define KEY_QI_VOLUP   KEY_VOLUMEUP"06:24
kyaki think this is the problem06:24
kyakKEY_F11 is 87, but KEY_VOLUMEUP is 11406:25
kyak(or 115, whatever)06:25
kyakthis also causes problems in SDL apps, like nightsky or gmu06:26
kyakthey know that Ben's keys VolUp and VolDown are mapped to F11/F1206:26
kyaknow it's not like this06:26
xiangfukyak: http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c?v=2.6.37;a=mips#L14806:36
xiangfukyak: since the upstream is KEY_VOLUMEUP. change our code. follow upstream.06:36
kyak"change our code" - adapt the console keymap, and keymaps of many other apps, like mplayer, nightsky, gmu (the first i had on mind, there are others). In some of them the mapping is hardcoded06:38
kyaki don't understand the upstream change.06:38
kyakwho cares if it is KEY_VOLUMEUP or KEY_F1106:38
kyakit works already as KEY_F11, why need to change the _name_?06:39
xiangfuhttp://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c?v=2.6.37;a=mips#L188 <--also this line is not correct.06:45
xiangfuit should be "KEY_GRAVE"06:45
kyakyeh, it's another difference06:47
xiangfukyak: then it should be "ACUTE ACCENT" and shift should be "GRAVE ACCENT"06:54
xiangfukyak: right?06:55
xiangfukyak: I think we can try to create a small patch for the KEY_F11. for make other apps work. I will look into that :)06:55
kyakxiangfu: yeah, exactly right06:58
kyakthanks )06:58
xiangfukyak: ok. I will change that.06:58
kyakxiangfu: btw, were your patches for trunk accepted by openwrt upstream?06:58
xiangfuI think they maybe not notice that. I will send another email again today. :)06:59
kyakall right :)07:00
jow_laptopkyak: which ones?10:46
kyakjow_laptop: there were four patches mailed to openwrt ML on the 25th of March10:54
kyakby xiangfu10:55
kyakas an attempt to reduce the difference between qi's backfire branch and openwrt's trunk10:55
kyakin preparation of moving to openwrt's upcoming release :)10:56
kyakand next three messages10:58
jow_laptop4/4 should be synced against the current trunk sysctl.conf11:10
kyakyeah, probably it should.. alsmost a month has passed11:10
jow_laptopit does not change that often11:12
jow_laptopbut I mean this: https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/26204/trunk/package/base-files/files/etc/sysctl.conf11:12
kyakjow_laptop: hm, shouldn't xburst/base-files/etc/sysctl.conf completely overwrite package/base-files/files/etc/sysctl.conf?11:31
kyak(trying to understand why and how they should be synced)11:31
jow_laptopyes, but the one you create is outdated from the beginning11:37
jow_laptopit touches sysctl keys that do not exist in recent kernels11:37
kyakah all right, i got your point11:38
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: libtcod for ascii-paint http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/7ec9e9513:11
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: ascii-paint, uses ASCII characters instead of pixels to draw images http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3a40dc013:11
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/: on-going development http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/cd59b8513:15
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: libatrf: renamed driver specification argument from "arg" to "spec" http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/4fa909d13:15
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools: atrf-id option -s to retrieve driver spec, with necessary infrastructure http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/296148213:15
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/Common: get real driver spec with atrf-id instead of assuming "default" http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/fc26eb013:15
wpwrakwhitequark: ultrasound cleaner acquired :)14:53
rjeffriescoughs, but covers his mouth, nit wishing to disturb those who are sleeping17:04
rjeffries_wolfspraul have new sales of Ben declined? the list is very quiet, no newbies asking for help there are here.19:19
kristianpaulrjeffries_: ah, you bought a nanonote recently? :-)19:24
wpwrakmaybe the wiki is just so good by now that they'll all figure it out by themselves19:24
rjeffries_Microtouch would make a Most Excellet periferal for Ben: https://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51&products_id=33019:24
wpwrakrjeffries_: so, attach it and show us a video with how great it works with the ben19:25
kristianpaulsomebody will end here as soon get flash corrupted, at least wiki also get a good tutorial about the carbon rubber and power/boot sequence of the nanonote19:25
rjeffries_kristainpaul thank you for asking! I borrowed a Ben for a couple of weeks. long enough to realize it assumes a more intelliegent, more well-informed user than me.19:26
rjeffries_when I used it via SSH so I had a bigger keyboard and a larger display, it was a clever little linux box19:27
rjeffries_wpwrak you have the wrong guy. But maybe Tuxbrain will do so after he returns from his sabatical or wherever he is hiding19:27
kristianpaulgood, you can blog about that,and tell people your experiences with it19:28
kristianpaulbtw i think tuxbrain is not the person that hides, at least you mean other thing rjeffries_ ?19:28
rjeffries_wpwrak I wonder if the 8:10 and SPI will provide an adequate connection to Microtouch19:28
kristianpaulrjeffries_: try it !19:29
rjeffries_if that would work, then for $70 one could add full USB and wouch interface to Ben19:29
rjeffries_kristianpaul which part of IANAE do you misunderstand? ;)19:29
kristianpaulthe whole word :-)19:30
rjeffries_tuxbrian is missing in action is my observation. maybe he is being held prisoner by the vendors who build up ATben and ATusb boards? who can say for sure>19:30
rjeffries_I anm not an engineer.19:31
kristianpaulme either19:32
wpwrakkristianpaul: (tuxbrain) well, he it at least not responding. i've been expecting an update on the pcb side for over a week (there were a few pending questions), and i sent him a mail with more questions a few days ago. well, maybe his family obliged him to stay away from the keyboard for some easter holiday. not too uncommon in europe.19:33
kristianpaul(amily obliged him to stay away from the keyboard for some easter holiday) that make sense19:34
kristianpaulwpwrak: i bet as in here,same in spain, not too much people work in holly week :-)19:35
kristianpaulrjeffries_: no ofense, but not going to the univesity or having a profesional degree in a specifc is not excuse for not doing fun/diy/play with electronics and software19:37
kristianpaulwpwrak: i ran out money past week, for now i cant afford make the 10PCB batch, i'm waiting a project to start so i can get some free to invest money :-)19:38
kristianpaul10PCB atben*19:39
wpwrakkristianpaul: :-( well, the PCBs apparently aren't ready yet either. maybe next week.19:42
kristianpauli tough19:42
kristianpaulwel i miss one week of commit logs..19:42
wpwrakkristianpaul: not commit log ;-) fabrication19:43
kristianpaulthats good !19:43
kristianpaulfor  a moment i tought you were still polishing something..19:43
kristianpaulwich is not bad of course :-)19:43
wpwrakkristianpaul: the order has been given to make them, the fab sent a proposal for the panelization a bit more than a week ago, we sent some comments, and then i don't know what happened afterwards. if they proceeded with making the boards swiftly, they should be done now.19:44
wpwrakkristianpaul: (polishing) oh no. that time is past ;-) final gerber out was march 3119:45
kristianpaulyeah yeah, i read that mail, was a thread in qi i remenber19:45
wpwrakrjeffries: you're staying true to your character ;-)23:52
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