#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2011-04-18

rohmth: yes. basically do use ssl like we use ssh now most the time (connect, ack key on the first time if it doesnt look too fishy)00:01
wpwrakroh: i just wish SSL would simply use the SSH credentials ... poof, all problems disappear00:04
rohwpwrak: not that simple... you still need a userinterface.. and no.. we dont need changes on the servers or the code of the libs. just the userinterface and some pre-conditions are different00:05
rohso.. its even compatible...00:05
rohyou guys know the ssl observatory of eff?00:05
wpwrakroh: naw, imagine your web browser would send your public ssh key for authentication. you already manage that key, so there's no extra work. (of course, this would only work for people who use SSH, kinda elitist)00:07
wpwraks/send/use/ if we want to be pedantic :)00:08
kristianpaulis not that foaf ssl  works?00:08
rohwpwrak: well.. thats what ssl basically does if you use client based certs00:09
rohwhere you show 'your public half to the server'00:09
rohbut its ugly to use... yet there is support in stuff like apache etc00:10
wpwrakroh: but cert management is usually extremely messy00:10
wpwrakroh: yep, ugly is the word :)00:10
rohmostly its sticky... like x509 usually is.. like liquid sugar or so ;) caramel-ssl00:10
wpwrakroh: or maybe similar appearance to caramel but originating from the fecal tract ...00:12
rohsomething like that00:13
rohman.. moving makes tired00:19
wpwraknow, really ? ;-))00:20
rohi mean.. its 2:20am, and i just awoke.. fell apart 8h ago or so. and my feet still hurt00:20
wpwrakand what would be unusual about sleeping from 6pm to 2am ? :)00:21
rohbut yet.. moving a highly compressed hackerspace is somehow weird.. we are packing up stuff for over a week now and already move it over... and the thing only had 68m^200:22
rohits feels like moving multiple houses *g*00:22
wpwrakhmm, my apartment had 100+ m2. and yes, moving 1.5 years ago was great fun, too00:23
wpwrakalso, "highly compressed hacker space" describes it quite well00:23
rohwell.. there you know all stuff.00:23
wpwrakthere are actually several things i haven't found yet. might be hidden in some corner of a box or bag i haven't examined yet00:24
rohin a hackerspace one often has stuff in its hands which is... well.. unusual.. or do you have something >100kg  of lead-gel-batteries in different sizes around?00:24
rohwell.. you have a 'workshop' right? for your mill and stuff?00:25
wpwrakhmm no. most of the icky stuff, i just threw away :)00:25
rohhrhr.. we use the batteries... and some are just doorstoppers now00:25
wpwrak(workshop) yup, now i have a separate room for these things. before, the mill shared my office00:25
rohyuk (dust)00:26
wpwrakyes, dust00:26
rohwe have a own room for the mill again :)00:26
rohalready cut in a window into the wall to make it watchable from the 'metal working room'00:26
wpwraki also made a big isolated box for it, so now i can even let it run all night and nobody will hear it. well, unless it put it to work ob particularly noisy material, metals, for example00:27
rohso one sets up the machine. and then leaves to run it from next door. less noise, very small room  (less cleaning)00:27
wpwrakso the new space it much bigger ?00:27
rohyeah. we more than doubled00:27
wpwrakthat's always good :)00:27
roh140-170m^2 then.00:27
wpwrak(small space) yup. another advantage of that box i made - all the dust stays in there :)00:28
wpwrakpretty spacious00:28
rohalso more people and finally static places for some heavy tools00:28
wpwrakroh: and you sleep on the laser cutter, where it's nice and warm ? :)00:29
rohthe lathe needs to be placed more solid and spacious... and the big metal sheet shears also want to be mounted fix00:29
rohwpwrak: naah... no beds there00:29
wpwrakheavy machinery, i see00:29
wpwrak(no beds) ah well, a chair or a table will do in a pinch ...00:30
rohsure. you really need to visit when you are in europe some time00:30
rohwe got showers.. but we want to make sure nobody lives there00:30
wpwrakah, i thought you lived there :)00:31
rohwe... do hackerspaces for long enough that we know the fine line between hacking for long hours and people who 'stay sticky for some days/weeks' .. the latter isnt pretty00:31
wpwrakwell, if you have showers, it may not be so bad ...00:31
rohi now live some further away than before. but gismo basically has it 'on the back of a small park' in front of his girlfriends bedroom ;)00:32
rohthere is also no real kitchen and stuff. somebody would need to 'care for it personally'00:32
wpwrakroh: let me guess - she found the new place ?00:33
rohmost 'areas' work best when there is somebody 'being the boss' around it.. not in a bad manner, but making sure its clean and orderly when people leave.. no stuff is left on the tables not intended to do so etc.00:33
rohwpwrak: its a former public indoor bath00:34
wpwrakroh: (no kitchen) since when do need hackers a kitchen ? except for experiments, of course00:34
wpwrakroh: (boss) yeah, that makes sense00:34
roh'stadtbad wedding' .. now its dry and a place for art and such. we just entered the former solarium and started cutting out walls00:34
rohwpwrak: there will be a biolab00:35
wpwrakcool. then you can grow your own GMO food ;-)00:35
rohnot sure i want that.00:35
rohbut it would be cool to detect meat from gmo cows (since its NOT labeled)00:36
wpwraka nice breakfast of e.coli, cereal-flavoured :)00:36
rohgiving back choice to the consumer00:36
rohe.coli isnt that evil actually.00:36
wpwrakare they modding cows yet ?00:36
rohthe thing itself.. not the sickness... the organism is really used form lots of stuff.. from 'generating stuff' like... long carbon chains (fuel) to medicine...00:37
wpwrak(e.coli) sure. it's kinda _the_ model organism for genetic experiments00:38
rohwpwrak: the us is cloning cows and the eu has decided that meat from their decendants doesnt need to be labeled special at all00:38
wpwrak(e.coli) hence my suggestion to use it as a basis for breakfast (or lunch, dinner, snack, ...)00:38
rohanyhow.. we do indeed care about safety and such.. so i dunno what is possible. somebody spoke of 'S1 requirements' and thus the room is lockable, has its own, openable window.. we'll see00:39
wpwrak(cloned cows) well, that's not GMO yet. the telomeres should be shorter, though, no ?00:40
rohalso cloning disturbs the natural mix which makes sure the species is resistant to sickness00:40
wpwrakonly level 1 ? so no fun with ebola and friends ...00:41
rohimagine a company having 1000 cows... and then some weird sickness comes around... usually only a few will die, the rest is resistant. on cloned cows.. if one is not resistant.. the others arent too. huuuge risk for the owner00:42
rohno ebola.00:42
wpwrakroh: (natural mix) you get that also with traditional means ... not quite as "efficiently", but still00:42
rohthere are limits ;) same goes for other areas00:42
rohwpwrak: exactly. to be fair.. i consider myself lucky to have friends interrested in agriculture. thus i know who i want to go to for real good food 'when it all comes down' ;)00:43
mthroh: unfortunately, for really contageous diseases they kill all the cows anyway if one gets sick00:44
mtheven if vaccines exists00:45
rohmth: yes... still depends on the sickness. we havent had any too selective ones. but we know there are (from humans for example... where we did much more work on that)00:45
rohmth: the whole thing is... if you dont have a 'modified to make $foo' organism.. its much more rubist already. means if its not tuned to make 3 times as much milk as cows are now00:46
mthmy sister says that lack of genetic diversity in dog breeds is getting really obvious now00:46
rohand get space to move around and go outdoors.00:46
rohmth: hrhrhr... so dogs get even stupider?00:46
mthsome breeds are pretty much guaranteed to develop physical problems00:46
rohyikes.. ok.. that bad already00:46
wpwrakmth: (dogs) you mean there's a chance some virus will kill them all ? wouldn't really miss all that dog shit in the streets ...00:47
rohwpwrak: its as bad as in berlin in ba too?00:47
mthwpwrak: the dogs in the streets are best protected since they do have a decent genetic mix00:48
mthI meant the kind of dog where the whole lineage is recorded00:48
wpwrakroh: here, some streets are basically public dog toilets :-(00:48
mththey are only bred with other dogs from that same small set00:48
rohmth: european monarcs did that too.. see where it got us ;)00:49
wpwrakmth: gee, what could possibly go wrong ? ;-)00:49
rohones which need to copy paste to get a doctor00:49
mthroh: even they eventually understood that it was better to marry someone not quite so close to the royal family00:50
rohmth: even without that.. have you seen pictures of them?00:50
mthno real pictures, only paintings, not sure how accurate those are00:51
rohtrue. no photographs... well.. their illnesses are well recorded sometimes. not nice.00:51
rohnot what somebody wants for his kids in the end. dark ages are over00:52
mthI haven't seen those00:52
mthphotographs of skeletons or did the intermarrying continue after photography was invented?00:52
rohall kinds of rare genetic diseases you basically only can inherit00:52
rohhrhrh ... google for 'european monarchs genetic defect'00:55
rohi like diversity. its what makes the reality work in lots of complex systems.00:56
rohif its biology or sourcecode.00:56
rjeffriesrename #qi-hardware as #qi-biological-science We only eat GPLv3 licensed organisims. Step by step. Open-GMO04:29
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add build script file using in buildhost http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/df9db3414:59
rozzinYeeha--got GJay + MPDjay working on my NanoNote.18:41
rozzinTime to buy a NanoNote for my wife, now.18:41
rozzinThere were a few changes that I had to make to the OpenWrt packaging for gsl & mpc, and I've created some packaging for GJay; what's the best way to contribute this all to the NanoNote community?18:52
xMffrozzin: I just sent patches to the Qi discuss listz18:54
wpwrakrjeffries: step one: build electronics. step 2: build organisms that build electronics :)19:01
rjeffrieswpwrak now you are atarting to sound like a nanomachine guy. not that there's anything wrong with thar19:13
wpwrakrjeffries: i always like others to do the work for me. doesn't have to be computers all the time ;-)19:21
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