#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-03-29

lekernellatest milkymist gui screenshot: http://www.milkymist.org/flickernoise/darkblue.png00:03
wpwrakvery nice !00:06
rjeffriesthat milkymist screen shot is ultra cool02:38
wpwrakautocrap travesty of the day: seems that they discovered "quiet" builds. of course, unlike everyone else who adds a means to enable verbosity (V=1 or such), they had to hard-code the quietness in the makefile. as if a build under the auspices of autocrap could possibly ever fail ...12:19
jow_laptop:D :D :D12:20
jow_laptopI usually patch the quiet patch out12:20
jow_laptoperm quiet stuff12:20
wpwraki like it for making warnings and such more visible. but there has to be a quick way to see the whole truth when debugging ...12:26
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: install/: kernel and system utilities build instructions (preliminary) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/fb5bb5a13:01
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben/README-PCB, atusb/README-PCB: clarifications regarding holes http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6487c3213:01
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: install/: updated and corrected build instructions http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/16dcc3013:01
wpwraktuxbrain: yesterday, we heard about russian postal snails. how are the spanish smt snails doing ? :)13:28
tuxbrainwpwrak: the snails said this afternoon they will make a "sprint" and send the quote.... I want a world with the efficiency of germany, patience of Japanese , Chinese production, Hindu spirituality, Netherlands legislation sense, EEUU entrepreneur spirit, Spanish  improvisation skill and (ok some French cheese ,bread and pastry can pass the filter too)  , Russian maths toughness,  Nordic mythology and metal, Swiss economical skills... (add/remove you13:54
tuxbrainown receipt to the ideal world)... until then let's wait the spanish efficiency with EEUU patience :P13:54
wpwrakheh, let's hope for the best then :)13:56
tuxbrainand the snails have made the sprint :)16:50
methril_work:O16:52
tuxbrainwpwrak: I have send you a email with the quoting , no info about the usb connector apart of the warning on the paneling , I have requested for the ref/vendor and/or datasheet of it.17:01
wpwraktuxbrain: "Pantalla Serigrafia Niquel" is the stencil ?17:25
wpwraktuxbrain: prices look so-so to me. not excessive, but i also don't know if they couldn't be substantially lower. maybe ask adam for his opinion.17:28
wpwraktuxbrain: (usb conn) great.17:34
wpwraktuxbrain: i'll be afk for a few hours. let's see of more data arrives :)17:34
kristianpaulhe, a C structure is very cool :-)18:49
kristianpaulusefull18:49
Action: kristianpaul reading about tcp/ip18:49
methril_workkristianpaul, C structure allows OO in C19:19
Jay7but you should pass structure pointer to object functions directly then :)19:22
Action: Jay7 is using some kind of such things..19:22
whitequarkhas anyone managed to get qt running on ben?19:22
Jay7fb->plot_pixel(fb, x, y, color);19:23
whitequarkper my experience, 32mb is too little for it, but maybe i'm compiling qt the wrong way19:24
kristianpaulmethril_work: he, i was thiking same actually19:26
kristianpaulwhitequark: it is19:26
kristianpaulcheck nanomap for example19:26
kristianpauland others games i think19:26
kristianpaulqdict too19:26
methril_workkristianpaul, it`s used like that in kernel VFS19:26
methril_worki did some serialization of "objects" -> C structs19:27
methril_workand sent over the net19:28
methril_workit works nice :)19:28
kristianpaul"object functions" :o19:31
wpwrakmethril: in VFs and a gazillion other places :)19:36
wpwraktuxbrain: regarding the component substitutions: the 1 uF can is in fact the one i specified. the others are okay as well.19:46
Action: methril_work nods wpwrak words19:56
lekernelhttp://www.milkymist.org/flickernoise/pdf.png20:41
wpwraklekernel: that's your upcoming book ? :)20:47
tuxbrainwhitequark: you have to be some restrictive (example I'm getting problems if I use large fonts) but with starndard ones I was able to compile on pc and run some demos on NN and I'm developing a code editor app for arduino on QT creator21:01
lekernelyeah21:01
tuxbraingn8 dudes, today I'm tired and need to rest. and there is no caffeine arround to make me change of opinion. c u21:03
whitequarkso, what graphical environment may be used on ben? I've tried gmenu2x, and it works perfectly (of course), but is not very feature-rich and the code is somewhat crappy22:58
steve|mhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/ You are not authorized to view this page.22:59
steve|mmhh22:59
steve|mwpwrak: since I can't take a look at the mmone-jtag, can you tell me how to add a SMD mini usb jack with KiCad?23:00
steve|mis there some special library I need?23:00
Jay7whitequark: jlime is using kdrive+matchbox iirc23:00
Jay7or may be xorg+matchbox23:01
whitequarkJay7: looking at their screenshots, matchbox requires touchscreen, am I right?23:34
Jay7whitequark: no, jlime's one is driven by keyboard23:35
whitequarkhmm, that's not very easy when you have maybe 8 keys23:36
Jay7nanonote have lot of keys :)23:36
whitequarkthe particular thing I'm searching an environment for has much less, but otherwise has very similar hardware23:38
whitequarkwell, of course I may attach a keyboard on i2c, but I do not want to do that23:38
Jay7minimal keys requirement is 2 :)23:39
Jay7down and select :)23:39
Jay7better with 3 - up/down/select :)23:39
Jay7you should be happy with 5 :)23:40
whitequarkhm.23:40
mthare you looking for a toolkit, menu, desktop?23:40
Jay7ah, yes, some key for closing window and changing between23:40
Jay7one modified should be enough :)23:40
Jay7*modifier23:41
whitequarkmth: if I've had 64mb of memory, I'd just use qt for everything and be happy. I'm looking for everything I need to build an usable media player on top of Linux, of course FOSS23:42
whitequarkbut qt is too fat to run simultaneously with mplayer, and gtk is not something I'm happy with, too23:42
Jay7whitequark: opie? :)23:42
whitequarkqtopia is dead23:43
Jay7but still working :)23:43
whitequarkfor an one-time project it would work (iirc it has used only ~7mb of memory by itself, through on arm), but I'd like to make something which may be reused23:44
mthwhitequark: DirectFB is pretty light and was designed for use on set-top boxes23:44
mthyou can run wxWidgets on top of it if you need a widget toolkit23:44
whitequarkhm, wxwidgets23:44
whitequarki'll look into that, thanks23:44
whitequarkJay7: opie.handhelds.org is down too23:45
mthwxWidgets is highly modular, so you can disable widgets you don't need23:45
Jay7whitequark: opie.sf.net23:45
Jay7opie is moved from hh.org long time ago23:45
mthalthough I ran into compile errors when I did that, but they weren't hard to fix23:45
mthand all my patches from back then were integrated by the maintainers23:45
whitequarkmth: looking at their screenshots, they use some underlying graphics library, win32 or gtk23:47
mthit can do that, but it can also use its own widgets on a low-level gfx lib like DirectFB23:48
mthwe had a user interface for an embedded system running on it23:48
whitequarkoh yes, I see it. looks like we're back in '9523:48
mthDirectFB + wxWidgets had a much smaller flash footprint than kdrive + wxWidgets23:48
rohwxwidgets is shit. dont use it.23:49
mthwe did implement a custom theme to make it look good23:49
whitequarkmth: do you have a repo of that?23:49
mthno, it was a proprietary app23:49
rohmake stuff look ugly and breaks thing which worked before on all platforms23:49
mthwhich was also the reason we didn't use Qt23:50
mththey didn't want GPL licensing and the per-unit cost of Qt was also too high23:50
mththis was before Qt was LGPL-ed23:50
whitequarkroh: any suggestions on your side?23:50
mthif you have enough resources, go for Qt instead of wxWidgets23:51
rohwell.. directfb alone isnt a toolkit. its like gdk23:51
mthbut in this particular restricted environment wxWidgets worked well for us23:51
whitequarkmth: 32mb and a processor roughly like ben's23:51
rohits for drawing and windowing, but for a actual toolkit you need something more. usually people use wither gtk or something completely different.23:51
rohthere is some very simple stuff.. i forgot the name. mompls23:52
whitequarkroh: gtk looks nice and has not very big footprint, but its c interface makes me cry23:52
roh'lite'23:52
mththere was a framebuffer port of gtk, but it was unclear to me whether it was maintained23:52
rohwhitequark: you can still code in different languages.. vala?23:52
rohand compile down to binary.23:53
rohc++ is nearly always much bigger in binary and memory footprint size23:53
rohhttp://directfb.org/index.php?path=Platform%2FLiTE23:53
rohmth: gtk on dfb is what debian used afaik for the installer.23:53
mthI've always installed Debian with a text mode installer :)23:54
rohdfb can also run on dumb framebuffers. its 'abstracting' the hw of the fbdev so you can use accel if available.23:54
whitequarkroh: back when I've looked at it, it was looking like in very early stage, is it stable now?23:54
whitequarkroh: yes, deb's graphical installer uses dfb. I'm thinking about implementing some graphical acceleration with DMA, through I don't know how efficient that would be23:55
rohlite? dunno. i havent worked with that stuff for years. but i know that directfb is still maintained and used in real products.. tv's and such23:55
whitequarkroh: no, vala23:56
rohwhitequark: dfb does abstract that for you (accel)23:56
whitequarkroh: sure, but it would fall back to slow way like naive memcpy23:56
rohinstead of e.g. a userspace x11 driver one has a userspace dfb driver and (usually) a kernel component (the fbdev) which allows mapping/access to registers and dies modesetting.23:56
whitequarkwell I use jz4740-fb just in NN23:57
rohso accel is usually in userspace, and modesetting in kernelspace. sometimes even simple blitting (for scrolling)23:57
whitequarkI particularily like some features of dma like striding and descriptors, it may be possible to implement acceleration for simple ops (like blt) with these23:58
rohnah. usually not23:59
mthwith 320x240 resolution, often software rendering is fast enough23:59
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