#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-03-22

kristianpaulwolfspraul: hi, you there?01:40
wpwrakroh: btw, any signs of the ben-wpan kit i sent you ? it's now 12 days since it left argentina.04:26
rohnope04:28
wpwrakroh: hmm. they say that international mail can take up to 15 days. let's hope for the best then ...04:30
wpwrakif they couldn't figure out how to deliver it, then it should show up here again around next week04:32
rohwell.. i got no note at all from them.. so.. no clue04:34
wpwrakthe tracking is also silent - if that one is connected at all. looks kinda "work in progress"04:37
wpwrakgah. finally figured out why kicad wouldn't pick up the settings. it's  pcbnew `pwd`/foo.brd  vs.  pcbnew ./foo.brd  again :-(05:09
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/stdpass.fpd: reduced silk screen width of outline from 5 to 3 mil http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/6691da105:38
wpwrakaw: question: i have two 0402 components side by side: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/0402par.png05:56
wpwrakaw: the solder mask clearance (green) clearance around the pad (purple) is 5 mil. the solder mask openings of the two components almost touch. is this likely to be a problem ?05:58
wpwrakaw: if yes, should i reduce the clearance to, say, 4 mil ?05:58
wpwrakaw: the little bit of solder mask is about 2 mil. here's a magnified view: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/0402par2.png06:00
awwpwrak, second..viewing06:02
wpwrak(this is from atben)06:04
awthe red square is your solder pad? the purple is your copper? the black is your solder mask?06:05
wpwrakblack is pcb. purple is copper. pink is solder paste. green is solder mask.06:05
wpwrakthe dark green (only on the first png) is the bottom layer06:06
awokay , so now your clearance setting is 5 mil between solder mask and copper (purple) is 5 mil. right? so 5 + 5 = 10 mil which is your clearance between solder mask and solder paste!06:10
awright? i see like that.06:10
awcorrect me, if wrong!06:10
wpwraksolder paste has only 1 mil from copper. if i increase the solder paste clearance, the solder paste would basically vanish.06:11
awum...i see know06:12
awfirst a very 'safe' way is : solder paste can have 5 mil fro copper, then copper is 5 mil from solder mask. this is the most safe manufacturing.06:13
awbut in case,06:13
awyou actaully no need to care that 1 mil at all, just make a clearance 5~ 10 mil between solder paste and solder mask.06:15
wpwrakhmm, solder paste 5 mil from copper looks like trouble with qfn. there, there the pads are only 9.5 mil wide ...06:15
kyak< wpwrak> & asked the sailor upon entering madam's parlour :) <-- what happened next, can easily be found on the Internet :)06:15
awnow your two side by side yes is two closer.06:15
wpwrak5 mil is what i have now. so far, so good :)06:15
wpwrakaw: you mean they're too close ?06:16
awi see your both green is 2 mil clearance (both solder mask). It's very bad!06:17
wpwrakaw: in the finished board, the spacing looks quite reasonable: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/2boards-20110305-full.jpg06:17
awmake is at least 5 mil then you are safe.06:17
wpwrakaw: it's the pair below the balun (on the atben boards)06:18
awwpwrak, just make both solder masks is 5 mil, is it necessary to calibrate the performance after shift 3 mil?06:20
wpwrakkyak: yeah, these days, the sailors don't go there anymore. they just connect their laptop ;-)06:20
wpwrakaw: performance should be the same. not sure if i have enough room, though ...06:21
awwpwrak, "5 mil is what i have now. so far, so good"  >>> which is you said?06:21
wpwrakaw: that was about the pad to solder mask clearance06:21
awfrom your picture I can see the clearance from both solder masks.06:22
awis 2 mil only.06:22
wpwrakyes06:22
wpwraki wonder if i should simply lower the solder mask clearance from 5 mil to 4 mil. that would still be slightly more than the 0.1 mm usually assumed for layer registration accuracy06:23
wpwrakand it would increase the gap to 4 mil as well -> problem probably solved ;-)06:24
awyup, make it added to 5 mil please. No easy that makers can easily control it as all pcbs as same good enough as 2 mil AFAIK.06:24
awno.06:24
awas your pcbs is only two layers. I'd like yours to be more producible in everywhere. so if you always keep 5 though, then you have no troubles on this more!06:26
wpwrakexcept squeezing in the components ;-) let's see ...06:28
wpwrakphew. i think it just fits.06:31
rohhm. has anybody seen john?06:32
rohfrom H:D06:32
awwpwrak, surely if you lower solder mask to 4 mil, finally your clearance between solder masks is 4 mil though.06:34
awfrom my pcb makers they told me before. As a nominal /central value they like 5 mil, if you make design as 4 mil, an 'aggressive' pcb sales who want to deal with you , they will say no problem. but actually if their pcb capability is NOLY said as 3 mil, then don't trust them at all.06:37
wpwrakaw: now i have about 6 mil.06:38
awbecause of a known etching tolerance.06:38
awwpwrak, hmm...great.06:38
wpwrakaw: (4 mil) pretty soon, the components will be smaller than their tolerance then ;-)06:39
awwpwrak, ;-)06:41
wpwrakaw: here we go: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/0402par3.png06:45
awwpwrak, your sot23-6 have the same condition, well..they are in one part, it doesn't matter.06:48
wpwrakyeah, they's kinda like qfn. nothing i can do about it :)06:49
awwpwrak, done.06:50
wpwrakand here's atusb. that one had no such issues: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/atusb-front-110322.png06:52
wpwraknow, solder paste vs. qfn. there's still one that is more or less pure guesswork07:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: hacks/brdclw: change (silk screen) line width in a component http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/c48170207:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd: enabled Drawings layer and moved measurements there http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/49f349907:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben/Makefile: replace defective mlztx process with more robust cptx http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2cade0e07:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben/Makefile (spotless): new target to also remove KiCAD "junk" files http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/227bed107:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/Makefile (spotless): new target to also remove KiCAD "junk" files http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/83d47a807:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben/Makefile: merge comment layer (component references) into silk screen http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/528a57707:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: moved measurements to Drawings and merged Comments into silk screen http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f17bceb07:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben, atusb: always invoke KiCAD with absolute paths lest .pro be ignored http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/18b2b9107:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben, atusb: set solder mask clearance to 5 mil and adjusted silk screen http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/64a746b07:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd: shifted C2 and C4 to increase solder mask clearance http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/dfcb9fe07:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd (C1): moved component reference for more consistent appearance http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/63f44f307:10
awwpwrak, xiangfu how does 'fped' work? and how http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/downloads/ make sure syncronized to KiCad sources?07:11
wpwrakaw: (fped) have you looked at this yet ? http://people.openmoko.org/werner/fped/gui.html07:13
wpwrakit's a bit old but gives you and idea of the basic concept07:14
awwpwrak, not yet..seeing..okay..good07:14
qi-bot[commit] werner: Added a new pad type: trace pads, for antennas and other trace-like elements. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/49a1bbd07:16
qi-bot[commit] werner: - gui.c (change_world_reselect): take into account that we may get called http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/1409cfa07:16
xiangfuaw: checking... and updating   :)07:16
wpwrakah, catching up ;-)07:16
awwpwrak, so how do  *.deb files under downloads folder make sure it's newest to KiCad sources? or it's made manually. AFAIK wolfgang made that for me.07:17
wpwrakaw: fped isn't connected to the kicad sources. as long as kicad doesn't change the board file format, fped should be compatible07:17
xiangfuaw: I am update the fped  .deb file now.07:18
awxiangfu, wow...it was you?  great.07:19
xiangfuaw: hmm... but I only make the fped deb file  not kicad07:19
awxiangfu, ok, tks.07:21
xiangfuseems there are not so many people in this IRC lives in GMT+8   :D07:22
qi-bot[commit] werner: Added a new pad type: trace pads, for antennas and other trace-like elements. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/49a1bbd07:24
qi-bot[commit] werner: - gui.c (change_world_reselect): take into account that we may get called http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/1409cfa07:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian package stuff http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/312dd4007:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: clean up the Build-Depends. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/a0f828a07:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: use the new version rules. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/e72f19107:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian/fped.manpages  for install manpage http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/d36a0c607:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update to svn rev 5982, enable dh_auto_test http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/884985007:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: use usual name for orig tarball top-level directory http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/0fb83ed07:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update take svn rev: 5983 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/2f4a8a707:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: remove the Build-Depends ttf-liberation http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/484c06807:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update to svn rev 5986 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/839340307:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: override dh_auto_clean, use make spotless instread http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/5c3725d07:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add ghostscript to Build-Depends http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/809249d07:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update the homepage to help webpage http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/bbd9f1807:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update to r5997 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/b071b6807:24
xiangfuI have to using 'git push -f' for update the debian branch. since it rebase on upstream svn on r599907:25
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: debian package update to 5999 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/b034b4007:32
wpwrakhmm. gerbv can make amazingly pretty renderings. http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/atusb-gerbv.png07:35
wpwrakthe only thing missing are the drill holes07:36
kyakxiangfu: i'm close to you, this week the time shifts to GMT+4 in Russia and stays liek this forever (i.e. no more daylight saving time in Russia)07:40
wpwrakkyak: celebration for a week ?07:41
kyakof course, it's not GMT+4 throughout the whole Russia :) we've got 6 or 7 time zones, if i'm not mistaken07:41
kyakwpwrak: we don't need an ocassion to celebrate ;)07:42
wpwrakkyak: good point ;-)07:42
xiangfuaw: fped updated to 5999: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/downloads/07:43
xiangfukyak: I just start a little on 'trunk' branch.07:44
xiangfukyak: btw I am slow on xburst-tools bug.07:44
xiangfukyak: will catch up this week.07:44
awxiangfu, tks. :-)07:45
kyakxiangfu: it's ok :)07:50
tuxbrainxiangfu: I have follow the procedure on the wiki to build the image but it include very few packages....08:47
tuxbrainthis is the list of packages http://pastebin.com/w4qFuStj08:49
xiangfutuxbrain: hmm.. when you run yes "" | make oldconfig? this should be after 'make package/symlinks'08:49
tuxbrainthe procedure needs a review then this instruction is not included also there are some mistakes like08:51
tuxbrainsed -i '/CONFIG_ALL=y/d' config.full_system08:51
tuxbrainsould be08:51
tuxbrainsed -i '/CONFIG_ALL=y/d' .config08:51
tuxbrainand some cd .. missing also08:51
tuxbrainand08:52
tuxbrainln -s data/qi_lb60/files or  ln -s feeds/qipackages/nanonote-files/data/qi_lb60/files08:52
tuxbrainshould be only08:52
tuxbrainln -s feeds/qipackages/nanonote-files/data/qi_lb60/files08:52
tuxbraini'm running  yes "" | make oldconfig now and will retry08:54
panda|x201wolfspraul, ping08:57
xiangfutuxbrain: thanks. I am not test those steps. just write them by memory. sorry. fixed now.08:58
xiangfutuxbrain: the 'yes "" | make oldconfig' have to run twice. first before and after 'make package/symlinks'08:58
xiangfutuxbrain: sorry. it's have to run again after 'make package/symlinks'08:59
xiangfuno need in before.08:59
tuxbrainxiangfu: no need to sorry dude , that's, us, the testers are standing for, isn't it? :)09:00
xiangfutuxbrain: I am updating the wiki page, maybe this is clear : [ first time we download this '''.config''' file is for 'package/symlinks' don't bring up the 'make menuconfig']09:01
xiangfu:D09:01
tuxbrainok let me know when you finish (please also the release part) and I will review/modifiy in needed09:03
tuxbrainmmm running doen't make any difference09:04
tuxbrainrunning 'yes "" | make oldconfig09:05
tuxbrainshould I rerun 'yes "" | make oldconfig'?09:06
xiangfutuxbrain: have you you run " $ '''wget http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/latest/feeds.conf'''09:07
xiangfu $ '''./scripts/feeds update -a'''09:07
tuxbrainyes, but I can run '''./scripts/feeds update -a''' again09:07
kyakxiangfu: perhaps you could update the build script and then just paste it into wiki ;)09:11
tuxbrainrunning '''./scripts/feeds update -a'''; make package/symlinks ; yes ""|make oldconfig |make IGNORE_ERRORS=m V=9909:11
xiangfu1. downlad the feeds.conf  2. run ./scripts/feeds update -a ./scripts/feeds install -a 3. download the .config again. 4. run [yes "" | make oldconfig] 5. then if you open .config you can see a lot of packages have selected.09:11
xiangfutuxbrain: wait. and also ./scriptfs/feeds install -a09:12
xiangfuthe 'make package/symlinks' = ./scripts/feeds update -a && ./scriptfs/feeds install -a09:12
xiangfuthe only different between them is 'make package/symlinks' will check if you have a ".config" if there is no ".config" file it will bring you the 'make menuconfig'09:13
tuxbraingood news now seems to work, bad news supertux build fails09:17
tuxbrainChecking 'pngcrush'... failed.09:17
tuxbrainsupertux: Please install pngcrush.09:17
xiangfuyou need install pngcrush in your host system09:18
tuxbrainanother thing to modify in the wiki :) need to be added to the apt-get install09:20
Action: wpwrak likes gerbv even more now :) http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-20110314-overview.png09:24
xiangfuhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Software_Image#build_script_files09:24
xiangfukyak: yes. :)09:24
kyaktuxbrain: supertux build didn't fail yet :) it _would_ if it didn't check for prerequisites09:25
tuxbrainkyak: it doesn't build then is a build fail whatever was the cause :P09:30
wpwrakand here's atben, too: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atben-20110314-overview.png09:30
wpwraktuxbrain: btw, did you get a quote from the smt fab yet ? and did they say whether they need a stencil or not ?09:33
tuxbrainwpwrak: beautifull pics but I don't understand a thing (well a lot of but I will ask just one)  what is ligth green and red? 2 sides?  isn't the circuit one side?09:33
tuxbrainI have ping them last night , due I have not recieved any answer yet09:33
tuxbrainif I will not recieve any answer in a couple of hours I will phone them09:34
wpwraktuxbrain: (light green/red) that's front and back, to show the connectivity. both sides of the board are used for traces. components are only on the front.09:38
kyakxiangfu: so actually you marked "useless-in-trunk" those patches that went into data/* ?09:42
xiangfukyak: yes09:42
kyakxiangfu: it's a very good idea, now there is only alimited number of patches that can be worked through one by one09:42
xiangfukyak: yes.09:57
tuxbrainwpwrak: ok,  beautifull images  in deed10:00
tuxbrainxiangfu , the bloody pango strickes again http://pastebin.com/SAtSHwnV10:48
tuxbrainI'm trying to build the release image10:48
kyaktuxbrain: you are still using old feeds, aren't you?10:50
kristianpaul:D10:50
kristianpaulI thought OSGPS actually used a soft correlator in the new version...10:50
kristianpaulCheck out the Sim_GP2021_int() function in 'correlator.c'.10:50
kristianpaulMichele Bavaro10:50
kyakthis pango error was fixed with autoreconf update to backfire. If you are at latest openwrt-xburst git, you must use the latest feeds, too10:51
tuxbrainI'm following wiki instructions10:52
tuxbrainthe build release part10:52
kristianpaulohh more projects http://gnss-sdr.ru/index.php?itemid=17#nucleus_cf <-- abrizio Tapper pointed to me10:52
kristianpaulwolfspraul: there?10:55
tuxbrainkyak:Is a fresh install using this instrucctions http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Ben_NanoNote_software_from_source10:56
kyaktuxbrain: i see :)10:56
kristianpaulwolfspraul: (quick update) I'm moving about porting the namuru vreilog core to the mm1, if it works i could really _speed_ up some TODO about gps-sdr10:57
kyakthen you should be able to reproduce the release build. The only problem is that at the time of release build, this problem wasn't fixed yet.. I had a temporary patch for that that you could use10:57
kyak(xiagnfu didn't have such problem because his version of autotools match)10:58
kristianpaulwpwrak: sample analisys failed last time i'm not sure but fabrizzio told me to check this http://docs.python.org/library/struct.html10:58
kyaktuxbrain: use this patch for pango https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/881310:58
kyaktuxbrain: you might have to modify digits to match exactly your version of autocrap10:59
kristianpaulokay i gotta go office. read you later11:02
tuxbrainkyak, a more detailed instructions on how to apply the patch will be much apreciated...11:07
kyakcd feeds/packages11:09
kyakpatch -p0 < ../../pango.patch11:09
kyakgiving that you saved the patch in pango.patch of your openwrt-xburst directory11:10
kyak*top directory11:10
tuxbrainok11:11
kyakyou can modify the feeds/packages/Xorg/lib/pango/Makefile manually as well, it would be faster in this case than saving/applying the patch :)11:12
tuxbrainmmm patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input.11:13
tuxbrainwell I think I will do manually11:13
kyakyea11:13
tuxbrainbut this sould be fixed someway, people must be able to build the releases without such kind of errors....11:17
kyakbuild the latest, it should be fixed11:18
kyakyou will face other problems though11:19
kyakbut then there are bug reports for those already11:19
tuxbrainkyak not good policy , release should mean, "hey! here following that steps you are save", I agree that if you play with the edge lastets development you should find issues, but a clean build should be must for releases11:22
kyakthere is always some number of people/configurations where the build will fail11:23
kyakif not for this reason ,then for something else11:24
kyaki wouldn't give such guarantee :)11:24
tuxbraindamn it, another error http://pastebin.com/6TbTBuDN11:25
kyakwe would have to test that release build fine on all major distros and on x86/x6411:25
kyakit's not possible11:25
kyakog yeah, i remember this shit11:25
kyakit tries to links against host libgobject11:26
tuxbrainkyak: but the errors I'm founding are no matter of arch as you can see so your reply doen't convince me, don't get me wrong, I'm really thakful for the work you , xiangfu , Jay7 and whatever contributor does , I'm just putting on the situation of the new commers or , to some one that whats to use actual releases as base to develop a dedicated product... with such fails they wll just think, bah doesn't work and go for other solution, we must avoid thi11:31
tuxbrains on releases.11:31
kyakbut it builds find on buildhost11:32
tuxbrainand what makes build host different ? why is not on the requisits on the wiki, what step I forgot to follow?11:33
kyaki remember problems that are arch specific.. like gcc-mips problems. i remember problems that are distro spoecific, like used version of host autotools. There can be even such problems for two people on the same arch/distro when one of them has build some package (like perl) before, and then another package (like plplot) would fail :)11:34
tuxbrainany solution for the libgobject ? :(11:37
kyaktrying to remember &11:37
Action: tuxbrain propose a clean test from scratch in the build host of a release before relesase it.11:40
tuxbrainclean test build11:40
kyakthis is done already11:43
kyakthe clean build11:43
kyakwhy don't you believe that such problems prove to be so very specific?11:43
kyaktuxbrain: i can't really find or remember the patch for that libgobject problem.. maybe we could try to dig a little bit..11:44
kyaktuxbrain: find staging_dir/ -name "libgobject*"11:46
kyakdoes it find libs?11:46
tuxbrainkyak: seems that yes http://pastebin.com/MWj6cEX512:05
tuxbrainkyak: I'm reluctant to believe than two x86 machines sourcing form same repos, starting in same point , with same instructions give diferent results... one of the suposits must be false I want to to figure out what is the false and solve it12:09
wpwraktuxbrain: are you developing a prototype or do you already have something finished ? in the former case, maybe check if the things you need are already available on jlime, and if so, do the development there13:10
wpwraktuxbrain: you can always brave the openwrt build process later (or, better, outsource the problem ;-)13:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prettygerbv: use gerbv to compose "pretty" views of a PCB http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/7d249d113:13
tuxbrainwpwrak: well my intentions where have a stable opentwrt build based on the current release for multiple reasons:13:17
tuxbrainhave a toolchain with libs avialable courrently on the release.13:22
tuxbrainwith that toolchain set up Qt-Creator to build/upload/run for/on NN13:23
tuxbrainhelping in create proper packages for the avr tool chain13:23
tuxbraincreate a proper package for Nanokoder a KISS(due I don't know more) code editor based on QT with Nanonote constrains in mind, line numbering , code Hightligh, zoomamble font and  able to run external scripts13:23
tuxbrainmeanwhile the first one is not posible I'm working in the last one13:23
wpwraktuxbrain: yeah, i meant the work on nanokoder. maybe worth checking if jlime has all the libs you need already. once you have something that works, the openwrt gang should also be able to help you more efficiently13:26
tuxbrainline wraper on/off, line number, font zoom already working , no I will go for code highlight(C++ for now), then open/save files, then execute scripts, then reuse of code highlight definitons of nano or joe, then jump to line from compile error log, then support custom profiles, then I will be rich and will make others to do what I want13:28
tuxbrainno menus, no dialogs, just key press, and a text widget...13:31
wpwrakhighlight should be fun :)13:31
wpwrak(no menus, etc.) the return of king vi to arduinoland ? :)13:32
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prettygerbv: restructured project file generation to skip missing layers http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/4e5278a13:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: gemerge: when complaining about a command, show what it looks like http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/e95548d13:34
tuxbrainwpwrak: (vi kinkg) yeah but this time wiht crtl+C ctrl+V support :P13:35
wpwraktuxbrain: vi has that too :)13:35
tuxbrainshift+insert doesn't count13:36
wpwraktuxbrain: i mean ^C and ^V :)13:36
tuxbrainwpwrak: go to hell you "all knowing man"13:37
wpwrak(-:C13:37
kristianpaul( no menus, no dialogs, just key press, and a text widget.. ):D14:01
kristianpaul^ ?14:02
kristianpaulis not that same as press control..?14:03
kristianpaulhola :-)14:33
GNUtoo|bug20hi14:44
tuxbrainyou feel alone kristianpaul?15:05
kristianpaultuxbrain: a bit sometimes..15:12
kristianpaul:-)15:12
wpwraktuxbrain: any luck with the SMT guys ?15:33
wpwrakkristianpaul: (struct) hmm, that's a fairly generic mechanism ... did he have anything more specific in mind ?15:34
GNUtoo|bug20hi kristianpaul15:44
GNUtoo|bug20hi tuxbrain15:44
GNUtoo|bug20hi valhalla15:44
tuxbrainwpwrak: they will give the quoting tomorrow15:44
tuxbrainlet's say on thursday , this is spain :P15:44
wpwraktuxbrain: so i may still beat them :)15:47
tuxbraingreat nano highlight format ar on regexp like in qt :)15:51
tuxbrainjoe is totally different15:51
wpwrakthis may be the final version of atben: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atben-110322-overview.png15:53
kristianpaulwpwrak: struct?15:54
kristianpaulsorry i lost the track of the topic15:55
tuxbrainwpwrak: (atben) well I supose they are oke for me they look like the a couple of hours ago :15:58
wpwrakand the same for atusb: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-110322-overview.png16:02
wpwraktuxbrain: yeah, i made a few small changes in the arrangement of things on the silk screen and i enlarged the solder paste deposits a little16:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: some more component reference adjustments http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/ef606f516:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd: further silk screen beautification http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f297cf716:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd: leave ground plane in 8:10 slot uncovered; more minor cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f46311f16:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: more silk screen cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/44b49fd16:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben, atusb: updated back solder mask status (it's no longer empty) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f1586ff16:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben, atusb: added Makefile targets to generate "pretty" overview images http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/096049716:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: consolidated atben/Makefile and atusb/Makefile into common template http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6caa0d316:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Makefile.recurse: moved into makefiles/ http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/7cf2b0d16:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: increased solder paste deposits in QFN32-VHHD-2 and QFN32-VHHD-6 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/3a80f0616:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben, atusb: added comments specifying the grid sizes http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/936d80716:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: updated QFN footprint and version http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/d6c04f416:02
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: updated QFN footprints and version http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/0782a3c16:02
wpwrakkristianpaul: the recommendation you got regarding the absence of recognizable data: http://docs.python.org/library/struct.html16:03
wpwraktuxbrain: so what's missing now is the full pick and place information, plus a proper shopping list16:13
tuxbrainwpwrak: good just 2 of three :)16:32
kristianpaulwpwrak: no more specific in mind16:38
tuxbrainwpwrak: you have a list on how many components by board?16:45
wpwraktuxbrain: atben: 13 (7 different parts)16:49
tuxbrainwpwrak: I need the list you give me of bulk buy from digikey but with the qty of one board. and without prices16:49
wpwraktuxbrain: atusb: 26 (15 different)16:51
tuxbrainwpwrak: a list not the totals16:55
wpwraktuxbrain: like this ? http://pastebin.com/U1px6U3x16:56
wpwraktuxbrain: (you can delete position 12, which is NC)16:56
wpwrakah wait, more to delete: also positions 3 and 416:58
wpwrak(funny that pcbnew doesn't remove them on its own - it has all the information necessary for this)16:58
wpwrakand here's one for atben: http://pastebin.com/ZY8DvKLi16:59
wpwrak(remove positions 2, 3, 8, and 10)16:59
tuxbrainmmm the supplier and ref are empty17:04
tuxbrainthis sould be useful to avoid missundertanding in the components specifications.17:05
wpwraktuxbrain: sure. this is just what i can generate quickly. for the SMT fab, you'll need something more detailed17:06
wpwrakfor the fab, you'll also need the placement file, etc.17:06
tuxbrainbut I need it for the quote17:07
tuxbrainonce in production we can provide them with the placement17:07
tuxbrainI will try to do the matching with the previous digikey list17:07
wpwrak(quote) ah, i see. i think i'll have a proper version later today or early tomorrow17:09
tuxbrainwpwrak:  ANT and P(1-6)  are not components really , isn't it?  so atusb only 15 components, (I have already do the matching)17:20
wpwraktuxbrain: ANT and P1-6 are PCB structures, yes. also, C16 (on atusb, C12 on atben) is an empty footprint (NC)17:22
rjeffrieswpwrak a thing of beauty: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/atusb-gerbv.png will you sell wall size prints signed by the artist?18:03
wpwrakrjeffries: hehe ;-)18:57
kristianpaulHi.19:42
kristianpaulAny one able to help with some octave basic tasks?19:43
viricmayb eme19:49
virickristianpaul: mayb eme19:49
viricgrr19:49
viricmaybe me19:49
kristianpaul:-)19:51
kristianpaulI think this should be easy, i need an octave program that reads a file, wich is just made of 16 Bit Signed Ints19:52
viricah19:52
kristianpaulOnces in read it , print it back to screen19:52
viricyou have fopen, fread, ...19:52
viricas in C19:52
kristianpaulah, is same as C?19:52
kristianpauloh wow19:52
viric'doc fread' there19:52
kristianpaulbut do i need a file descriptor too? ;)19:53
viricyes19:53
viricfopen will give it19:53
viric(well, usually I call file descriptor what open() returns, and I call file handle what fopen() returns)19:53
kristianpaulIs too much ask, can you help me with that snippet for octave?19:54
virichow many ints?19:54
kristianpaulfile size can vary19:54
viricah as much as there are?19:54
kristianpaulfor nos i can fix it to 200Byes for you19:54
kristianpaulbut it can go up to 1Gb tought..19:55
kristianpauls/nos/now19:55
Action: kristianpaul installing octave19:55
kristianpaulnow that we're on topic, there is a tool for migrate some mathlab code to octave?19:55
kristianpauli had tried with scilab but was a real mess..19:56
viricfid = fopen("myfile"); [v,c] = fread(fid, Inf, "int16", 0); fclose(fid);19:56
viricthat should make 'v' have all the values19:56
viricand 'c' how many values.19:56
viricsorry, fopen("myfile","rb");19:57
virickristianpaul: octave should be able to run matlab code19:57
kristianpaulhmm19:57
kristianpaulzero conf, sure?19:58
viricwell, if you use matlab toolboxes and whatever more... it will not work19:58
kristianpauli dont know, how i can identify that toolbox?19:58
kristianpaulkeybwords??19:58
virictry to run it in octave19:59
viricand understand where it fails if it fails19:59
kristianpaulokay19:59
viricI've not used matlab since years...19:59
kristianpaul:-)19:59
viricbut I use octave more or less often20:00
kristianpaulhe, If you dont mind i think i'll mind you with some others questions about octave for this week :-)20:00
viricno problem20:00
kristianpaulI'll try out the snippet you pasted :-)20:00
viricif I can help I'll help20:00
kristianpaulviric: (that should make 'v' have all the values) i dont get that part20:15
kristianpaulc means how many ints, right?20:15
kristianpaulah v is a varible?20:15
wpwrak"v" = vector ?20:18
kristianpauloctave:2> [v,100] = fread(fid, Inf, "int16", 0);20:19
kristianpaulerror: invalid lvalue function called in expression20:19
wpwrakc may also be a variable. s/100/c/20:21
kristianpaulbut viric said i should tell how many values to read20:21
kristianpaullets see20:21
wpwraksee also: http://www.google.com/search?q=octave+fread20:22
Action: kristianpaul likes wikipedia20:22
wpwrakkristianpaul: viric wrote "that should make [...] 'c' how many values" ;-)20:22
kristianpaulahh20:22
wpwrakgoogle rocks for figuring out unruly constructs :)20:23
kristianpaulok ok!!20:23
kristianpaul:-)20:23
wpwrakwell, google plus the sites with the actual answers ;-)20:23
kristianpaul;-)20:23
kristianpaulwpwrak: how do you worked when no google existed?20:23
wpwrakkristianpaul: slowly :)20:24
kristianpaulhahah20:25
Action: kristianpaul searching at stackoveflow20:26
viricwpwrak: no no20:28
viricc will be *how many values have been read*20:28
wpwrakviric: yes, that's how i understood it. basically like fread in C.20:29
viric[v,c] = ...   is the octave way of getting the *two results* a function may return.20:29
viricv = f()     f returns one result20:29
wpwrakviric: (C) only that you get a variable and don't pass a buffer20:29
viric[a,b] = f()    f returns two results20:29
wpwrakwell, s/variable/value/, to be precise20:30
viricwpwrak: well, octave does not give memory pointers to users that easily :)20:30
wpwrakviric: real men hard-code their pointer addresses ;-)    int *buf = (int *) 0x810ad4f60;  /* buf = */ malloc(1234);20:32
kristianpaul:-|20:32
viricwpwrak: that's a weird 64-bit pointer :)20:34
wpwrakviric: yeah, it admittedly is :)20:34
wpwrakviric: corollary: real men also hack their libc to produce just this sort of pointers :)20:35
viricI'm waiting for an amd32 abi...20:35
viricx86_64 instructions and registers, all with 32-bit pointers20:36
viricI tried, and firefox takes 50% less RAM in 32-bit (in a single experiment I did)20:36
wpwrakwow :)  do they have something like   typedef long number;   ? :)20:37
virichm no :)20:39
viricwhy would they?20:39
wpwrakwell, that would explain why going from 32 to 64 bits doubles the size of everything20:39
viricah20:39
viriconly long long is 64-bit in linux20:39
viricin gcc, basically20:39
wpwrakthat is, unless they mainly store pointers ...20:40
viricAnd the bigger use of memory comes through bigger pointers, not bigger integers20:40
wpwraklong long is 64 on 32 and 64. long is 32 on 32, 64 on 64.20:40
viricIt's quite usual for many programs to store lots of pointers20:40
wpwrakmakes one wonder what all these points point to. more pointers than actual data. does that sound like excessive bureaucracy ? ;)20:40
kristianpaullol20:41
viricIt's a usual phenomena when you use more memory to gain speed :)20:41
wpwrakmore administration -> higher speed. qed. ;-)20:42
viricYou keep pointers to places you want to access often, instead of looking for them every time20:46
tuxbrainreal man do their programs with wire and void valves, not that fancy and fragile perforated cards...20:58
viricsewing memories21:01
Action: tuxbrain was abducted by the infinite classes structure of Qt, his headadache++ reading sentecences like "long long is 64 on 32 and 64. long is 32 on 32, 64 on 64."21:01
Jay7use python :)21:02
tuxbrainI will do so extensively on Ya, on ben python+qt+building in back groundgroud would be to much, also graphical libs and python is also a good mambo jambo to end with a great headache21:05
kristianpaul:-)21:07
kristianpaulreal men should not be talking here about real men :-)21:30
Action: kristianpaul hides21:30
tuxbrainreal man do not hide from real men21:43
Action: tuxbrain thinks we need more woman on qi-hardware :)21:43
viricreal women do not come to qi-hardware :)21:44
wpwraktuxbrain: how do you like this ? http://pastebin.com/LvzU47HQ21:46
kristianpaulwpwrak: in atbb/atusb how do you avoid the atmega/benanote inject noise to the RF chip?21:47
kristianpaulwpwrak: Do you have a particular manipulation process with the RF chip itself before and during rework?21:48
wpwrakkristianpaul: there are no special precautions for noise filtering21:48
wpwrakkristianpaul: (manipulation) err, what kind of manipulation did you have in mind ?21:49
kristianpaulwpwrak: to avoid ESR?21:49
kristianpaulwait no21:50
kristianpaulelectro static discharges21:50
wpwrakkristianpaul: ESD ... during assembly ? naw. buenos aires has a pretty humid climate all year long. there's not much of a risk of my frying a chip with ESD.21:51
kristianpaulok21:52
kristianpaulhmm21:52
wpwrakkristianpaul: i have ESD protection in atusb on the USB pins. nothing on atben, though. we'll see how this goes :)21:52
wpwraktuxbrain: for your consideration: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-smt.csv http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atben-smt.csv21:54
wpwraktuxbrain: if you prefer just formatted text (like the "shopping list"), i can generate this as well21:55
kristianpaulwpwrak: i hope next month i'll have some money for a 4 pcb run for atben (just for fun and learn)21:55
tuxbrainwpwrak: as I said I already done the matching and already send the list to smt vendor, but sure this one sould be better to pass as production files :)21:56
wpwraktuxbrain: oh, and what sort order do you prefer ? component reference ? by quantity ? by digi-key part number ? don't care ?21:56
tuxbrainwpwrak: don't care I think21:56
wpwraktuxbrain: okay. i'll sort by component reference then, like we did in openmoko.21:57
tuxbrainkristianpaul: common, I hope in a month I will be plenty of atbens for you21:57
tuxbrainwpwrak: ok21:57
kristianpaultuxbrain: ;-)21:58
tuxbrainsave the money to come to spain and catch them your self :)21:58
kristianpaulhehe :-)21:58
kristianpaulThat will be nice, but VISA is hard for most Colombian's espacially for spain, you may already know mostly why ;-)21:59
kristianpaulbtw !21:59
kristianpaulwell may be not, but if some body can cath a zarlink gp2021 why can bring some gps stuff for the nanonote too in a hackish way22:00
kristianpaulof course this is off-topic for what i'm currently working with SiGE Front End22:00
kristianpaulbut this was a gps hack toy in the 90's22:01
tuxbrain90's ! then it will be look like this http://www.holaoaxaca.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/gps-antiguo.jpg22:02
kristianpaullol22:03
kristianpaulno way22:03
wpwrak;-))22:03
kristianpauldoes that really was used?22:03
wpwrakthere are real maps that are drawn in this style22:04
wpwraktuxbrain: files updated. now sorted by component reference22:05
kristianpaulsure, but that size and pocket thing??22:05
Action: kristianpaul loves linux networking versatilly and chroot22:05
Action: tuxbrain too22:05
tuxbrainbtw the "ye-olde-gps" was from 1920 :)22:06
kristianpaulnice22:06
wpwrakyes ! commit 6000 at svn.openmoko.org ! ;-)22:07
kristianpaulyou?22:08
kristianpaulwho else ;-)22:08
tuxbrainwhat is there?22:08
kristianpaultuxbrain: wpwrak repo !!22:08
kristianpaulvery valuable22:08
wpwraktuxbrain: the core parts of the BOM processor (trunk/eda/boom/)22:08
kristianpaulmake a copy of it !22:09
tuxbrainyep, please backup whatever you have under openmoko domains22:09
wpwrakkristianpaul: (copy) yeah, when openmoko.org dies, i'll migrate boom and fped over to qi-hw22:09
wpwraktuxbrain: i have local copies of everything :)22:09
tuxbrainprojects seem totally down, isn't it?22:09
kristianpaulwpwrak: and the other stuff? i saw a memoryspeed tester too22:09
wpwraktuxbrain: (projects) dunno. it hasn't been well for a very very long time already22:10
wpwrakkristianpaul: i have a copy of the entire repository. but fped and boom are probably the most valuable parts right now22:10
kristianpaulsure22:12
wpwrak(oshw logo) the "Iconographic Microchip" looks more like "broken" than "open" ;-)22:22
wpwrakand so do all of the "Geared" thingies. remind me of drawings of body cells bursting after some virus infection22:23
tuxbrainwolfspraul: definitively we need more visibility (qi-hardware) I have read an open hardware article on farnell magazine, and apears Arduino and ... BugLabs!!!22:31
tuxbrainof course mention to the broken chip icon22:31
tuxbrainsorry oshw22:31
wpwrakhmm, ordering by component reference isn't quite clean. C10 comes before C2. not good. let's fix this ...22:32
wpwraktuxbrain: qi-hw ... isn't that this company that makes some sort of clamshell display with keyboard for the arduino ? :)22:32
tuxbraintuxbrain: lol22:34
tuxbrainwpwrak: lol22:34
kristianpaulwpwrak: s/oshw/ohwr http://www.ohwr.org/attachments/29/ohr_logo_90x120.png22:35
tuxbrainwpwrak: nah, that was linuxbrain or somthing like that qi.hw was the one of the milk dispenser under fpga22:36
kristianpaulqi-pixel?22:36
wpwrakkristianpaul: is that a zombie penguin ?22:37
tuxbrainwow a tux-borg22:37
wpwraki like the oshw "geared" logo. it's exactly the style in which biological cells are drawn. in the first one, we see a cell, complete with nucleus, where the membrane has been damaged. below, we see more damaged cells, each with a hydroxyl radical inside, which is quite fitting, see also the last paragraph of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl#Hydroxyl_radical22:39
tuxbrainI like the copyleft one, but then our motto will be really attached to openhardware(tm)22:41
wpwrakyeah. let's vote against it :)22:42
tuxbrainyay code highlighter working :)23:03
wpwraktuxbrain: /* " */ "does this work ?"23:08
tuxbrainyep :)23:08
wpwraktuxbrain: //* and how about this ?23:08
tuxbrainmmmm //* is recognized as /*23:09
wpwrak(-:C23:10
tuxbrainbastard23:10
wpwrakthat was easy ;-)23:10
tuxbraindamn it qt-creator does it well...23:12
tuxbrainok //* fix for next release :P23:12
tuxbrainlet's go to open/save files23:12
tuxbrainalso for next release limits on zoom in zoom out, I can zoom out to 1 point font and to max_int :P23:15
wpwrakkristianpaul: ah, another thing worth saving from openmoko.org is my TMC stuff (lab instrument control)23:16
wpwraktuxbrain: yet another update of http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-smt.csv http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atben-smt.csv23:21
tuxbrainany ones knows if QFileDialog will work on NN and how it should look like?23:27
tuxbrainon pc it opens the system file dialog, so I'm afraid in NN will not work...23:29
qi-bot[commit] Niels: Revert "first try to fix building with OpenWRT toolchain that does not include QtCore and QtGui in the include path" http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/f1a243023:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: Revert "second try" http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/69d133c23:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: add a .pri file for common settings in the build system http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/67b755c23:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: fix display of single poi http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/6c5a65b23:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: rename map icons http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/2cf269523:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: add download of poi to download widget http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/d7480d323:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: load file with crtl+o http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/a9d681023:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: a bit more consistant ui http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/88bbfbe23:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: remove unused funktion triggerAction() from layers http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/8d7760123:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: add not (yet) working downloader for routing data http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/f86e24623:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: show file name instead of generic Point of Interest title in layer menu http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/6bdf7c523:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: replace combobox with listwidget to select the poi type http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/3110a4923:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: beautify drawing of battery level a bit http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/a3d359723:46
qi-bot[commit] Niels: draw poi name if it is near the middle of the screen http://qi-hw.com/p/nanomap/880bc8b23:46
--- Wed Mar 23 201100:00

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