#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2011-03-20

jlamotheCan anyone explain to me why thc CC-BY-SA license was chosen for hardware?  It seems to be more suited to music.01:26
kristianpaulmusic is a creative creation, lets see hardware diagrams like that, a master piece :-)01:28
kristianpaulAlso open hardware linceses are not going anywhere, they still putting non-comercial clauises and doing a very high level of dificulties at the end for be just a license01:29
kristianpaul(persona opinion)01:29
kristianpaulalso you dont license hardware itself, just the sources for making that hardware, wich at the end are diagrams, software, text01:30
kristianpaulthere are plenty of licenses for that, why see hardware like just *one* thing when it is not01:31
kristianpaul?01:31
kristianpaulhi jlamothe :-)01:31
wolfsprauljlamothe: which license do you propose?01:31
wolfspraula copyleft manufacturing license would be cool, imho, but then I think licenses are not that important with hardware. Maybe we should multi-license everything under a whole bunch of the open hardware licenses, for fun :-)01:34
wolfspraullike 10 or so :-)01:34
jlamotheI don't really have an alternative.  I was just curious as to why that one specifically was chosen.01:42
jlamotheI'm developing hardware right now, and was looking for a good copyleft license.01:42
jlamotheRight now, it's under GPLv3, but I was told CC BY-SA might be better.01:43
kristianpaulthis is from CERN http://www.ohwr.org/01:45
kristianpaulyou may want check that too01:45
jlamothekristianpaul: Thanks.01:46
jlamotheI'll check it out.01:46
kristianpaulBtw can you tell us what hardware are you developing?01:47
jlamotheIt's an Arduino shield, that allows it to do proper 0-10v output, instead of 5v PWM.01:47
jlamotheI'm really more of a software developer, I've only been getting into hardware in the past couple years.01:48
wolfsprauljlamothe: nice. that puts you right smack into the middle of our core people here.01:49
wolfspraulGPLv3 is definitely also a good choice.01:50
jlamotheIt's what I've always used for my software.01:50
wolfspraulfor example the Elphel cameras (www.elphel.com) are licensed under GPL01:50
jlamotheSo, it seemed a natural choice.01:50
whitequarkjlamothe: so are you going to use some kind of boost converter?01:50
wolfspraulwell. it's probably close to meaningless in hardware, although you could make the same argument for cc-by or cc-by-sa01:50
jlamotheBasically, just a capacitor and resistor to smooth it out, and an op amp with negative feedback, to double the voltage.01:51
wolfspraulthe FSF will not help making GPL more meaningful/enforceable in hardware. it's just a symbolic act really, imho.01:51
jlamotheThe shield also supplies power to the Arduino through the VIN pin.01:51
wolfspraulyou can dual-license under gpl and cc-by-sa01:51
jlamotheProbably what I'll end up doing.01:51
wolfspraulwhat do you try to achieve with the license?01:52
jlamotheI basically just want to make sure it remains accessible.01:52
jlamotheI'd hate to see someone turn it into something proprietary that I can't hack on.01:52
wolfspraulno need to worry about that :-) no hardware company in the world would even go close to any of this open/copyleft stuff.01:52
jlamothewolfspraul: There was a time they said that about software companies.  ;)01:53
wolfspraulagreed. in software we have a situation that many companies ignore the gpl, if not legally, then at least blatantly violating the culture and values of the gpl.01:53
wolfspraulbut in hardware for sure that doesn't exist now. put the gpl on it and no hw company will touch it (if that's what you think is 'accessible')01:54
jlamotheIt is a bit of a tricky situation though.  I happen to work for an electronics company.01:54
wolfspraulaha :-)01:54
jlamotheThey know I'm doing this, and they're cool with it though.01:54
jlamotheWe're looking at totally different target demographics.01:54
wolfspraulif you care about the product (functionality), I'd say stick with gpl/cc-by-sa, maybe dual-licensing, and forget about the license stuff.01:56
wolfspraulfocus on the product01:56
jlamotheYeah.  That's my primary focus.01:56
wolfspraulif there were as many successful open hardware projects as there are open hardware licenses, we would be much further along today.01:56
jlamotheIt's mostly about the learning experience for me.  It just so happens that I had a number of people asking me (to my surprise) if I can make boards for them too.01:57
wolfspraulwhich EDA tool do you use?01:57
wolfspraulfor schematic capture and layout01:57
jlamothegEDA.01:57
wolfspraulnice01:57
wolfspraulQi is mostly using KiCad right now01:58
jlamotheI was going to go with Eagle, but I figured that if I was going to learn a tool, I'd rather learn a free (libre) one.01:58
wolfspraulbut geda is the other big free one, of course01:58
wolfspraulyes, good01:58
kristianpaulCERN uses gEDA i think01:58
wolfspraulearly on wpwrak chose KiCad, and we have been happy with it ever since01:58
kristianpaulsure :-)01:58
whitequarkthe amount of good libraries for eagle is much larger, in my experience. how do you solve that problem?01:58
jlamotheI taught myself to make my own footprints.  The supplier I use for parts is good about supplying datasheets.01:59
wolfspraulwe've done some nice things like schematics revision history, automatically from kicad commits into the qi projects server01:59
wolfspraulhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/xue/01:59
wolfspraulyes, also good :-) werner wrote a small parametric footprint editor, fped01:59
wolfspraulI don't know much about geda though, not sure whether fped would make sense there or not.02:00
jlamotheProbably worth looking into.02:00
whitequarkwolfspraul: parametric? is it like providing it the case type and pin names, and getting the finished footprint after the processing?02:01
jlamotheI know that gEDA supports footprints generated by M4 macros, but the M4 processor makes my head hurt a little.02:01
kristianpauljlamothe: are you using some autoroute feature for gEDA?02:02
wolfsprauldon't know the details02:02
wolfspraulhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/02:02
jlamothekristianpaul: I started out using it, but I found that when I want to use a ground plane, it totally makes a mess of things.02:02
jlamothe...so I route by hand now.02:03
wolfspraulhttp://people.openmoko.org/werner/fped/gui.html02:03
wolfspraulI don't think it's that high-level though (case type and pin names).02:03
kristianpauljlamothe: what about 6 layers PCB, any toughts about that using gEDA?02:04
jlamotheIt can do as many layers as I want, but the PCB manufacturer I've been dealing with can only do 2-layer.02:05
whitequarkthe fped is worth looking at, as i am currently searching for a good foss cad tool02:05
jlamotheI've yet to find a good all-around F/OSS AutoCAD replacement.02:06
wolfspraulhere's an fped example for a mini-USB connector http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/modules/mini-usb.fpd02:06
jlamotheIt saddens me a little... :(02:06
wolfsprauljlamothe: cannot help you with 'all-around', but we are using QCad for the case of our Milkymist One VJ station02:06
wolfspraul'using' means we have produced cases, are selling functioning products, etc.02:07
wolfspraulso that's a starting point, I think02:07
wolfspraulthis was done by raumfahrtagentur.org, they may have more interesting links for you02:07
jlamotheHey, look at that... QCad is even in the default Ubuntu repository.  :D02:10
wolfspraulyes but don't expect an 'all-around' autocad replacement02:13
wolfspraulI think you need to approach it the other way round - what is possible with QCad, that's what you will do :-)02:13
jlamotheIf I can draw simple schematics, I'm happy.02:13
wolfspraulschematics with autocad/qcad?02:14
jlamotheYeah.02:14
wolfspraulI think it's similar with kicad/geda. once you use these tools, you really have to accept where they are and help grow them too, with feedback, patches, etc.02:14
wolfspraulif you compare with your beloved pads layout, orcad, altium designer every day, you may as well stay with those02:15
jlamotheYeah, but I try to use as little proprietary software as possible.  If I can find a passible F/OSS substiture, I'll gladly deal with the discomfort of making the change-over.02:16
jlamotheI don't have that option at work, but on my own PC, I do.02:16
jlamotheWell, I do at work too... just not to the same extent.02:16
jlamotheAnyhow, thanks for the input.  It was very helpful.02:18
wolfsprauljlamothe: what tools do you use at work?02:18
jlamotheAutoCAD and Eagle.02:18
jlamotheAlso some really specific stuff like Echelon NodeBuilder/LONMaker02:18
wolfsprauloh sure, you are very welcome. please come back here when you have more feedback or questions.02:18
wolfspraulall of those tools like geda/kicad, qcad, also on the IC design side, are very much the center of our work here02:19
jlamotheWell, the Echelon stuff is for programing Neuron chips, which allow our hardware to communicate using a proprietary protocol, used by some of the other hardware we need to be compatible with.02:20
wolfspraulwe've also started some work on a sourcing system, called 'boom'02:20
tuxbrainthere is any clear tutorial on how to setup QT-creator to compile to NN? I have searched on SIE part but all is a little messy, If not I will have to create one my own :P08:16
wpwrakjlamothe: i think if you feel tempted to use qcad for doing schematics, you're doing something wrong :)08:29
wpwrakjlamothe: gEDA schematics capture used to be quite horrible, with many hidden fields. not sure if this changes. kicad is pretty cool but has lousy selection (blocks and such). qcad shines there, but lacks the connection to layout making.08:30
wpwrakjlamothe: kicad schematics capture and schematics symbol creation is quite tolerable once you're used to it. the gui can sometimes be a little awkward but doesn't really get in the way.08:31
wpwrakjlamothe: for footprints, fped is pretty strong. you can either use it via the gui or "program" your footprints with its footprint description language. here are some examples for footprints generated with fped: http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-modules.pdf08:33
wpwrakjlamothe: gEDA's pcb autorouter runs circles around kicad's. but kicad is quite strong when it comes to manual routing. kicad's autorouter is sufficient to do designs that should be obvious to your dog. gEDA's autorouter is sufficient for designs that take you 1-5 minutes to solve in your head. pcbnew's manual layout lets you tackle more complex things.08:37
wpwrakjlamothe: there are semi-automatic routers that go beyond this as well, but i haven't found one that's entirely convincing yet. (alas, the one best supported by kicad is free-to-use but otherwise as closed as it gets)08:38
virictuxbrain: you plan to make a qtopia program'14:34
viric?14:34
virictuxbrain: or X based?14:34
viricDoes someone have directfb working fine in the nanonote?14:40
virichttp://www.sand-labs.org/owb the web fails14:43
virichttp://www.netsurf-browser.org/ the web fails14:43
B_Lizzardnetsurf works for me14:44
B_LizzardThe framebuffer backend14:45
B_LizzardBut it's incomplete14:45
B_LizzardNot really workable14:45
B_LizzardEngadget renders 100% perfect though14:45
viricoh14:45
viricwhat is engadget? I'll look for it14:45
viricB_Lizzard: does it work fine without a pointing device?14:45
B_LizzardThat's the issue14:49
B_LizzardThe arrow keys move the screen but not the cursor itself14:49
B_LizzardIt's an issue of improving the framebuffer frontend14:50
B_Lizzardwww.engadget.com14:50
B_LizzardIt's a fairly complex website14:50
B_LizzardAnd netsurf is fast14:51
kyakviric: links is working and w3m, too14:53
kyak(http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Applications#links and #w3m)14:54
viricyes, for text mode I know14:55
viricit looks like only the text-mode browsers think about the lack of pointing device14:55
viricI think of getting 'dillo' working14:56
kyakviric: what do you mean "tex mode"? links -g is not a text mode :)14:57
viricI know14:57
viricbut it wants X14:57
viricI thought something built without X14:57
kyakit doesn't need X14:57
viricif directfb worked on the nanonote, links -g would be fine too14:57
kyaklinks -g works fine on nanonote14:57
viricwith directfb?14:58
viricthe last time I tried, it painted bad14:58
viriclike if it was putting 24-bit pixels on a 32-bit framebuffer14:58
kyakdid you see the link i gave you?14:58
viricno :)14:58
viricI'm going14:58
viricOh, this is NOT how it looks like in my nanonote14:59
viricthe last itme I talked with xiangfu about directfb, he confirmed that he got the same results I got14:59
kyakit uses svgalib14:59
viric(which are not there)14:59
kyakat that screenshot14:59
virickyak: without directfb?14:59
kyaki don't know whether svgalib runs on top of directfb  :)15:00
viricthe opposite, if the case15:00
kyakviric: you should install the latest openwrt image and explore a little bit15:00
viricthat screenshot is taken from the nanonote, sure?15:00
kyakof course15:00
virichm15:01
kyakand also, w3m is capable of displaying inline images15:01
kyakdrawing directly in fb15:01
kyak(the screen shot is also in wiki)15:02
kyakthese all are in latest image15:02
viricah right15:02
virichm15:02
viricI'll look at how it is built15:02
viricbut for what I checked with xiangfu, he got links2 working as bad as in my nn15:03
kyakwhen did you check?15:03
virichm 3 months ago15:03
kyakthis information might be outdated :)15:03
kyak'a little bit'15:03
kyak3 months ago....15:04
viric'this'?15:04
kyakyea15:04
kyak"working as bad"15:04
viricah ok15:04
xiangfuas kyak said. it using svgalib15:07
viricwithout directfb?15:08
virichm15:09
viricthe links web site says (as I understand) that the graphics mode requires a mouse15:09
xiangfuviric: the svgalib using directfb.15:10
viricgrmb15:10
viricI'll have to check.15:10
kyaknot anymore with this patch http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/links/patches/001-disable-mouse.patch :)15:10
viricwhat about the browsing experience without mouse?15:10
kyakit's just the same as text mode links15:11
viricah great15:11
viricit all looks fine then15:11
viricWorking since 23-02-2011? quite recent! I'm not following qi enough :)15:11
kyakwell, working since 1 month 11 days :)15:12
viricI see I see15:12
viricso that may be the best option onw15:12
viricnow15:12
viricfor browsing15:12
viricOn another state of things, whould someone post the alsa configuration for softvol? I'm mad about finding that15:13
kyaki like w3m better.. somehow it looks nicer (imho)15:13
virichm ok15:13
virickyak: and cyrillic look fine in both?15:14
kyakyeah, working fine15:14
kyakfbterm+w3m is capable of chinese/japanes, too15:15
viricbut then without pictures15:16
virichas w3m any javascript?15:16
kyakwhy not?15:16
viricI don't know15:16
viricI don't use it15:16
kyakwith pictures15:17
viricah15:17
viricWell, what does fbterm do there15:17
viric'15:17
viric?15:17
viricisn't fbterm rendering the text in that case?15:17
kyakwithout fbterm, linux console won't show more than 256 symbols15:17
kyakso you will only see those glyphs that yo uhave in your console font15:18
viricso w3m uses the font rendering in the console? And additionally it paints pictures?15:18
viricI did not think it could be possible15:18
kyakit is :)15:18
virichow does w3m know the size of the text glyphs, to place the pictures?15:19
kyakhuh?15:19
viricI don't understand how it works :)15:19
viricit either uses curses, or it renders the framebuffer. Isn't that an either-or?15:19
kyakw3m uses gdk-pixbuf to draw images. gdk-pixbuf is using directfb for that15:20
kyakw3m draws symbols to terminal, the terminal displays them15:20
kyakif there is no such symbol, there will be garbage15:20
viric'draws'?15:21
kyaktherefore, fbterm is used15:21
viricw3m does not draw, w3m says: put the character X15:21
kyakdunno, replace it with "prints" :)15:21
kyakor "puts", ok15:21
viricand the terminal draws whatever character w3m said15:21
viricAs of using curses, w3m sees the terminal as a matrix of characters to be drawn15:22
viricBut as of gdk-pixbuf, it sees it as pixels15:22
viricWell, I better read the code. I never thought it could be done :)15:23
kyakw3m is not using ncurses at all15:23
viricah no?15:23
kyaknope15:23
viricWhat is the API to draw characters on the screne then?15:24
viricscreen15:24
kyakit uses some own implementation15:24
viricI thought the only way of drawing text into a terminal was sending characters to its file descriptor15:24
kyaki think it's only one of the ways15:25
viricthat would be a great discovery for me15:25
virickyak: what font do you use in fbterm?15:27
viricI got good cyrillic only instalilng some Microsoft fonts :D15:27
kyakfbterm is using unifont15:31
kyakxiangfu: btw.. i'm running the trunk image now. Most apps work fine, some not so fine. sdcv and stardict hit the oom killer when running without swap :)15:37
kyakguess 0.9.32 has got more fat15:37
xiangfukyak: great you running trunk image now. what is your image size?15:38
kyakxiangfu: at the same time, qstardict runs fine and provides more options (like text to speech)15:39
kyakxiangfu: 38377881615:39
kyakon device, it is 339.0M    121.1M15:39
kyakused/avaialble15:39
virickyak: what swap size do you use?15:40
kyakviric: usually it's 32 Mb15:40
xiangfukyak: cool. QT apps works fine now with 0.9.32 great.15:41
kyakfor now i'm running without swap, the SD card is used somewhere else :)15:41
xiangfukyak: what test to speech using in qstardict? flite?15:42
viricis that qt on X?15:42
kyakyep15:42
kyakxiangfu: btw, qt apps still segfault on exit -\15:42
kyakviric: qt in FB15:42
kyakxiangfu: Use flite to speak words: set "flite -t %s play" in qstardict options.15:43
viricgreat15:43
kyakxiangfu: btw, i'm using your flite 1.4 Makefile, slightly modified. There is still older version using OSS in opewrt feeds15:44
xiangfukyak: I have tried this in 2011-02-23. not working in 2011-02-23. great it's working in trunk image15:44
kyakxiangfu: it is working in latest image, too15:44
xiangfukyak: then maybe my setup is wrong. :)15:44
kyakhm..15:45
xiangfukyak: (flite) I should send the patch now to upstream. too many works delayed15:45
kyakxiangfu: your flite version is ~35 Mb :)15:46
kyakyou install all voices15:46
kyakxiangfu: http://dpaste.com/521325/ - this is the Makefile i'm using15:47
kyakxiangfu: btw, how do you activate the text to speech? after setting the "flite -t %s play" in qstardict options you must search for the word you want to speak15:48
kyakotherwise, it would speak "play"15:48
xiangfulet me check15:50
xiangfukyak: ok. after setting "flite -t %s play" . it works fine now.   why you add the 'play' at the end of 'flite ..' ?15:55
kyakif WAVEFILE is unspecified or "play" the result is played on the current systems audio device.15:56
kyaki think i wanted to avoid disambiguation :)15:57
kyakhm, some other apps don't run without swap15:58
kyaklike supertux15:58
kyakactually, i never ran the latest image without swap.. it's just a coincidence that i'm running trunk without swap15:58
kyaki wonder if the memory consumption was the same in latest image15:59
kyakthat's why when i have my second Ben, i would be able to compare :)16:00
kristianpaulhttp://xkcd.com/radiation/ he17:06
qi-bot[commit] kyak: snownews: enable wide ncurses support http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/0a344e817:36
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: Revert "flite: include in upstream" http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/345e07317:55
xiangfukyak: I just revert our make file of flite. you can find more info in git log17:55
xiangfukyak: I have try to update the upstream 1.3 to 1.4. there is a patch about share libs. I can not make merge it to 1.4. so I will just keep the flite 1.4 in openwrt-package.git17:57
kyakxiangfu: cool! i'm using a slightly modified Makefile: http://dpaste.com/521325/17:57
kyakbecause $(INSTALL_BIN) $(PKG_BUILD_DIR)/bin/* $(1)/usr/bin/ is very huge17:57
kyakalsao, it depends on alsa-lib17:58
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: flite: add depends alsa-lib by kyak http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/010132517:58
xiangfukyak: thanks. applied :)17:58
kyakthanks :)17:59
kristianpaulThe receiver requires at a minimum a 100 MHz 486 IBM PC with 640k RAM.19:29
kristianpaulhttp://home.earthlink.net/~cwkelley/19:29
kristianpaulargg this software asusmes a correlator chip,too bad19:34
kristianpaulosgps out of my list.. well for now19:36
Action: kristianpaul looking for a software correlator19:36
tuxbrainviric, not qtopia, using qt 4.7 they work also on framebuffer no need of X, (but it can also work with X aka Jlime) , I'm seting up the env to crosscompile directly form Qt-creator, once my first example compiles I will do a tutorial on how to do so, an then I will work in my ardunote app19:57
kristianpaul:o19:58
Action: kristianpaul kudos tuxbrain 19:58
kristianpaulhmm,interesting gp2021 born as a flos replacement for the dead gp2021 correlator..20:00
tuxbrainkristianpaul: what are you surprised ? for the willing to do a tutorial ? for setting up Qt-Creator? or that I was able to write a coherence sentence that looks like I know what I'm doing?20:01
kristianpaultuxbrain: ;-)20:01
kristianpaultuxbrain: no, because you're moving fast on this ardunote thing20:02
Action: kristianpaul need speedup gps-sdr thing20:06
Action: tuxbrain dreams on a next ya with two 8:10, wpan and gps20:10
tuxbrainand touch screen and a 640x480 res, with suspend working20:11
tuxbrainand why not a MM core twice fast and half power consuming20:12
tuxbrainhey don't look me like this, I said I dream on  :)20:13
Action: tuxbrain then should re cross-cross compile avr-toolchain for lattice-mico32 :P20:14
kristianpaulyou missed the gsm stuff ;-)20:14
tuxbrainno I let this for the qi-phone :)20:15
kristianpaultuxbrain: ha, you can even have a avr clone inside the chip :-)20:15
kristianpaulhehe20:15
kristianpaul:-)20:15
tuxbrainkristianpaul: (MM core) I'm refering to ASIC not FPGA :P20:15
kristianpauloh wow :-)20:16
tuxbrainonce I found a million or two, we can start the project20:16
tuxbrainfor now lets try to setup Qt creator like they do here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QtCreator_C%2B%2B/Qt20:18
tuxbrainbut for our beloved ben20:18
Jay7tuxbrain: may be s/wpan/wifi/? :)20:27
Jay7and 800x480 :)20:28
Jay7and jornada-like keyboard20:28
Jay7and Sharp Zaurus SL-C860-like case :)20:28
tuxbrainno I don't want to taint NN with propietary stuff, any step forward should be towards freedom :)20:29
Jay7and yes, 3g modem :)20:29
tuxbrain(jornada keyboard) I'm have heart parted in two, in one side I love the NN form factor it size is really pocket perfect, jornada doesn't fit in a pocket ... but yeah I has an incredible keyboard20:30
tuxbrain3g same as wifi, no freedom no way20:31
tuxbrainIf freedom is not the concern then any HTC device with kb can fit needs.20:32
tuxbrainmaybe a jornada slim as the screen part of NN , if closed can definitively make me decide :P , for now I will defend NN form factor20:35
tuxbrainfuck  https://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/openmokoder link doesnt work, any one in contact with the author Silmarilion?20:38
mthI don't think they made a movie of that yet ;)20:39
tuxbrainyes I had writed right20:40
tuxbrainah! it was Michael Tansella20:42
tuxbrainwell watever is a second method but it's less espectacular than see a just compiled app popup in ben screen.... with just a click o a button....20:50
tuxbrainmmm maybe playing with the post building options I can figure out..20:51
wpwraktuxbrain: (kbd) if you can get your hands on an oqo 01/01+, you may want to give that one a try. the keyboard is even smaller than the ben's, and it feels very nice. of course, you're typing with two fingers at a time, but it's still pretty friendly.20:59
tuxbrainwpwrak: did you ever had a jornada in your hands?21:03
tuxbrain680/72021:03
wpwraktuxbrain: hmm, probably held rafa's or miriam's once or twice. i know the hp100lx very well, and i loved that keyboard very much.21:05
tuxbrainwpwrak: yeah that ogo thing seems to find out a pretty kb layout :)21:06
wpwraktuxbrain: best layout i've ever seen21:07
tuxbrainwolfgang, take note for NN evolutions :)21:07
wpwraktuxbrain: in particular, they've had the courage not to have dedicated function keys. about the only other keybaord where i've seen this is the case is the HHKB21:08
tuxbrainwpwrak: well htc ones also doen't have fn keys :P21:21
kristianpaulhe, after 1 hr of reading the osgps mailist archive i found this interesting project http://sourceforge.net/projects/merakogps21:48
wpwraktuxbrain: alright, the ben is almost phone-sized :)21:51
kristianpaulwalkie talkie?21:53
wpwrakkristianpaul: that would be a very very fancy walkie-talkie ;-)21:57
kristianpaulWhy not? :D22:02
tuxbrain(walkytalky) what? NanoNote?22:04
Action: kristianpaul hides22:05
tuxbrainkristianpaul: nowhere to hide this is logged :P22:05
wpwrakprobably a bit fragile for that. also, not the most convenient shape.22:06
wpwrakbit an interesting idea nevertheless :)22:06
tuxbrainalso will be very complicated to have something transmiting with enough power to achieve useful distance.... or I'm wrong?22:07
tuxbrainwell if we find a 8:10 solution we have a sensitive mic and a loud speaker...22:08
kristianpauland RMF12B modules..22:08
kristianpaul(useful distance) yeap :/22:08
tuxbrainR;F12B which distance can achieve powered by 8:10 gpios?22:09
wpwrakwith a little parabolic reflector, you can use narrow beam transmission :)22:09
tuxbrainwpwrak: but that's directional22:09
Action: tuxbrain thinks if a 9V battery and a bigger antenna can become a NN a long range radio tranmisor reciever=22:11
tuxbrainmaybe is an interesting hack for atben...22:11
virictuxbrain: do you know much radio?22:12
tuxbrainviric: as much as anything... barelly nothing at all22:12
viric:D22:12
tuxbrainbut I'm totally fool and brave :)22:13
tuxbrainand very obstinated22:13
wpwraktuxbrain: the chip used for atben/atusb does support an external rf amplifier. so you could probably increase the range by a factor of (theoretically) 722:13
viricthat puts you in advantadge over many who know radio :)22:14
kristianpaul7 ! :o22:14
viricwpwrak: is it working on microwave range?22:14
wpwraktuxbrain: however, if you blast signals at 100 mW, you have all sort of regulatory constraints to worry about. 2 mW stay nicely below the radar ;-)22:14
wpwrakviric: with an RF amp, you'd still use the exactly same frequencies. just with a stronger signal22:14
Action: kristianpaul hope get a radio-ham license next month22:15
tuxbrainwpwrak: You have to read I have talked about a hack, so not a product22:15
viricwpwrak: that's why I ask. I don't want more stronger microwave around.22:15
viric:)22:15
wpwraktuxbrain: oh, sure. make it 10 W then ;-))22:15
viricand I imagine it's microwave, from the size of the antenna.22:15
wpwrakviric: it's in the 2.4 GHz ISM band22:15
viricclear22:15
tuxbrainwell if posible I would love to do so :) I can then read sensors from km (or maybe fry them)22:16
wpwraktuxbrain: wireless heating ;-)22:19
Action: kristianpaul agrees with tuxbrain 22:19
virickristianpaul: I was thinking to use the nanonote for some CW training :)22:19
Action: tuxbrain imagines him self with a bagpack with batts and whatever stuff needed and a UBB cable :P22:19
tuxbrainCW?22:19
viricfor morse training, for people interested in continuous wave communications22:19
tuxbrainwpwrak: but now seriously, is complicated to achive that rf amp?22:19
viricfrom scratch?22:20
viricit requires some accurate designs, if it's in the microwave range22:20
viricbut I imagine there are prebuilt things around; 2.4GHz is a popular band nowadays22:21
tuxbrainviric: sounds like not as simple as solder a resitor an plug a 9V bat thing :P22:21
virictuxbrain: that would be more for a microphone, if you add a capcitor :)22:21
tuxbrainviric wpwrak I talking about that x7 increase and using atben, not the 10W thingy22:23
viricah22:23
viricI've no idea.22:23
wpwraktuxbrain: you'd have to redesign the circuit. add the rf amp chip. lemme see if the documentation is accessible ... (they had a 404 when i looked for it)22:25
wpwraktuxbrain: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8340.pdf22:25
tuxbrainwpwrak: with the words redesing the circuit you have scared me for ages... don't worth the meaning to search.... too late22:26
wpwraktuxbrain: looks a little messy. quite a bit of extra components. but maybe there's also a more integrated solution. i think TI have one for their 802.15.4 line22:27
tuxbrainwpwrak: definitively this is out of the range of easy hack, forget I have said anything ok? :)22:29
wpwrakgladly ;-)22:30
tuxbrainis http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Software_Image update? I following all steps this23:26
tuxbrainln -s data/qi_lb60/files23:26
tuxbraindoesn't work, there is no "data" dir in openwrt-xburst23:26
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