#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2011-03-18

rjeffriesUBB arrived from Germany. damn, it is tiny00:27
kristianpaulwpwrak: remner i  sent the new captured/blotef file for analisys, i got reply today, no findings..02:26
kristianpaulwith bloated i mean a 16bit signed format fot the I/Q data02:30
tuxbrainwpwrak: (viral distribution) mmm a thing to think about05:55
tuxbrainwpwrak: (solder mask) ok I will make sure wen we send the final archives to start production06:14
wpwrakkristianpaul: (nothing found) hmm yes, that was to be expected. things rarely work on the first try ...06:30
kyakxiangfu: hi07:13
zedstartuxbrain: hi.....re: the wpan stuff.....i think it would be useful for sensor network or robotics type research projects so i guess you could sell to uni's09:49
tuxbrainzedstar: yeah but we need the software backend ready for this, :)09:50
zedstartuxbrain: yeh this assuming some IP stack :)09:52
B_Lizzard_Ugh, power failure09:57
kristianpaulwpwrak: ;)11:18
Action: kristianpaul back to the dma thing11:18
C-Keenhm, I get errors form usbboot when reading back the written uboot image :/13:49
C-Keennow I am scared to turn it off13:50
C-Keen...Fail off at 0, wrote 0x14, read 0x34...13:51
C-Keenah seems I got an old version of the xburst tools13:57
C-Keensorry for the noise13:57
C-KeenI will retry with a recent version13:57
C-Keenhm, no the problem persists14:01
wolfspraulcan you try from another host USB port, or host computer?14:06
wolfspraulalso (just in case) try to enter usb boot mode with the hardware pin under the battery, as opposed to the 'u' key14:06
C-Keenwill I be able to boot in usbboot mode once I turn off the power?14:06
wolfspraulwith the hardware pin you will always be able to14:07
wolfsprauland if you somehow overwrote or garbled the u-boot in the first NAND pages, then that's your only way back, yes14:07
wolfspraulNanoNote should be unbrickable though, I think so far it always was :-)14:08
wolfspraulfrom that 'wrote 0x14, read 0x34', I'd say rigth now there definitely is no bootable u-boot at the beginning of your nand14:09
wolfspraulfor whatever reason14:09
wolfspraulI would try reflashing from another host computer, if you have one available. is this from inside a virtual machine, or Linux is running natively on the host?14:10
wolfspraulI read something about a usbboot bug introduced recently, maybe kyak mentioned it14:11
wolfspraulso maybe the very latest usbboot is actually bad? don't know right now14:11
C-Keenwell I took the one from the latest14:11
C-KeenI will try again with the one before that14:12
C-Keenhm, now usbboot cannot find the XBurst interface. Do I need to reset somehting else in linux if I change ports?14:14
C-Keenbut the lsusb shows the right device id14:15
wolfspraulthat looks like the latest usbboot binary is buggy and should be removed right away, or more people will fall into the trap14:17
wolfspraulhmm. that's interesting. you try new things! You left the NanoNote running, unplugged it from one usb port and into another?14:18
C-Keenseems like it14:20
C-Keennow it does not answer anymore14:20
wolfspraulcannot follow14:21
wolfsprauldid you power cycle the NanoNote now?14:21
wolfspraulif you do, you need to use the usbboot pins under the battery to get back into usb boot mode14:21
wolfspraulfor that you should use the carbonized rubber button that came with your Ben14:21
C-Keenhere's what I do: w/o battery plug in the usb cable, short pins, press power button for 2 secs, short pins for 2 secs, check lsusb14:25
C-Keenwhen I plug in the cable the LED blinks once then remains dark14:25
wpwrakno. ignore the power button. short pins, keeping them sorted. plug usb. unshort pins. check lsusb.14:25
wpwrakthe led doesn't provide useful information. (it's part of the charging logic, not controlled by the cpu)14:26
wpwrakthere are a lot of little things that don't quite work the way ones it used to :)14:27
C-Keenok I got it again14:27
C-Keenbooted the two stages14:27
C-Keenerased the nand14:27
wpwrakah, and when you power cycle usb, disconnect for at least 15 seconds. if you disconnect only briefly, the machine may shut down but not come up again14:27
wpwrakbut if you get a response from usbboot, it's fine14:28
C-Keendoes erase put the cells into 0x00 of 0xff?14:28
wpwraki was asking myself that same question when you mentioned the 0x14 vs. 0x34 :)14:28
C-Keennow I do nprog 0 openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.img 0 0 -n14:29
wolfspraulI wouldn't trust usbboot output 0x14 vs 0x3414:29
wolfspraulI only see that it has failed, that is reliable.14:30
C-Keenwith the uboot image from 2010-12-1414:30
wolfspraulusbboot error handling is horrible, very buggy14:30
C-Keennow I get a different error though14:30
wpwraknormally, the erased value should be 0xff14:30
wolfspraulwhich usbboot are you using?14:31
C-KeenError - can't read bulk data from ingenic device:6414:31
wolfspraulI'm wondering whether the latest usbboot is buggy.14:31
C-KeenAfter Finish!14:31
C-Keenso it seems it cannot read back data14:31
wolfspraultry this:14:31
wolfsprauldisconnect the Ben, remove battery, wait 15 seconds14:31
wolfspraulpress 'u', reconnect usb cable14:32
wolfspraulsee whether it comes up in lsusb14:32
wolfspraulif it does, that means the u-boot in nand is now working14:32
wolfspraulbecause when you press 'u', that is actually handled by u-boot14:32
C-Keenot does14:32
wolfspraulwell good14:32
C-Keengood idea14:32
wolfspraultry flashing the Linux kernel now14:32
wolfspraulusbboot is buggy, I don't like it. so when I have to reflash many devices, I always only flash u-boot via usbboot, the rest I do by booting Linux from SD card, then I format/flash everything else in NAND from there14:33
wolfspraulif it's just my own Ben, ok I run reflash_ben.sh and hope for the best :-)14:34
C-Keenwolfspraul: ah, yeah I am still waiting for the microSD to arrive :/14:34
wpwrakwishlist/dream item for ya: a ROM boot loader that can boot from FAT-formatted SD :)14:36
wolfspraulC-Keen: try flashing just the Linux kernel now, with another nprog14:36
C-Keenwolfspraul: did so14:36
wolfspraullet's go step by step14:37
wolfspraulany errors in usbboot?14:37
C-Keenyeah the same when reading back data14:37
C-Keennot the same content of course but the message is the same14:37
wolfspraulbut flashing the pages itself resulted in SUCCESS messages?14:37
wolfsprauljust try rebooting again14:37
wpwrakwhat content does it show ?14:37
wpwrakmaybe put the whole dialog in a pastebin14:38
C-Keenyes the errors are shown after the Finish! message14:38
wolfspraulwith Linux kernel in NAND, you should see it coming up, and eventually run into an error that it cannot find the rootfs14:38
wpwraklike http://pastebin.com/14:38
wolfspraulwhen rebooting, remember the sequence: complete power cycle (cable off, remove batter), wait 15 seconds, usb cable back on14:38
C-Keenit comes up saying Bad Data CRC14:39
C-Keenso I guess the kernel image was not transferred correctly14:39
wpwraksounds like a high error rate on USB14:39
wolfspraultry nerase before nprog14:39
wolfsprauljust need to get the parameters right to keep u-boot safe :-)14:40
C-Keennerase 1024 30722 0 0 ?14:42
C-Keennerase 1024 3072 0 0 ?14:42
larscnprog runs an implicit erase14:42
wolfspraulnerase counts in eraseblocks I think14:42
C-Keenah maybe I did the initial erase wrong too14:42
C-KeenI have been following the updating ben with usbboot page14:43
wolfspraulwhy did you run these commands manually in the first place, and not just reflash_ben.sh ?14:43
wolfspraul(just curious)14:44
C-Keenwolfspraul: because reflash_ben.sh aborted with Error: can't read bulk data from Ingenic device:6414:45
C-Keenmixed with Error: can't read bulk data from Ingenic device:300814:45
wolfspraulmaybe 'nerase 8 8 0 0' could do?14:46
wolfsprauljust try, your NAND is fair game anyway now...14:46
C-Keenit is14:46
wolfspraultry 'boot' then 'nerase 8 8 0 0' then nprog Linux kernel...14:46
wolfspraulthen reboot14:46
wolfspraulsee whether you still have the CRC error14:46
wolfspraulif larsc says it's implicit then he probably has a point, but that's what I would still try. I've seen too many surprises with usbboot.14:47
C-Keenno the nprog's last error message is now can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110 Device unboot! Boot it first!14:47
wolfspraulcan't follow you14:48
wolfspraulstart from a complete power-off ben14:48
wolfspraulpress 'u' (if you have a working u-boot in nand)14:48
wolfspraulconnect usb cable14:48
wolfspraulstart 'usbboot' on host14:48
larscbtw. there is a very nice usbboot replacement jzboot http://git.whitequark.org/jzboot.git14:49
wolfspraultype 'boot', <enter>, 'nerase 8 8 0 0', <enter>14:49
C-KeenDone so: Finish! Return: 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 0014:50
wolfspraullarsc: wow great, thanks for the link!14:50
wolfspraulC-Keen: now the Linux kernel nprog, as before14:50
wolfspraulmaybe we can include jzboot in xburst-tools14:51
wpwrak(nerase 8 8 0 0) with some fonts, this looks almost like "zero zero zero zero", not "eight eight zero zero"14:52
C-Keenwolfspraul: http://pastebin.com/ZKCjWdR414:52
C-Keenuboot version 201103 btw14:55
C-Keen* usbboot14:55
wolfspraulC-Keen: can you try to reflash from another host computer?14:57
wpwraki wonder if "can't read bulk data from Ingenic" means a usb_read error or a failed data comparison14:57
wolfspraulI'd say usb read error14:57
C-Keenwolfspraul: hm, this is my only linux host. Do the xburst tools work on *BSD also?14:57
wolfsprauldoesn't mean much, it's a catch all14:57
wpwrak(usb read err) then it would be surprising that we don't also see usb write errors14:58
wolfspraulhe, never tried14:58
wolfspraulsince you seem to have a working u-boot in nand, the other option is via sd14:58
wolfspraulthe 'skip bad block' may mean that you have a bad block early in nand, where the Linux kernel sits14:59
wolfspraulI'm wondering whether the FORCEERASE flag is 114:59
wolfspraulhow did you install xburst-tools?14:59
C-Keenvia dpkg from http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/downloads/14:59
wolfspraulwe should definitely try this jzboot larsc pointed out. It's almost impossible to be worse than usbboot, so it must be better :-)15:00
C-Keenthis is a debian system15:00
C-Keen32 bit15:00
wpwrakwolfspraul: ;-)15:00
wolfspraulcan you try the 2010-12-24 version?15:01
wolfspraulthere was this mail from kyak last saturday that suggested that the latest binary may be buggy/have a regression15:01
wolfspraulno reply from xiangfu yet15:01
C-Keenwolfspraul: 2010-12-24 of what?15:01
wolfspraulC-Keen: xburst-tools15:01
wolfspraulif that doesn't work my only other ideas would be a different host computer, or boot from SD and then flash nand from there15:02
C-Keensame errors15:04
wolfsprauldoes your current machine have other USB ports?15:06
wolfspraulyou can also try to use a usb hub in between, if you have one15:06
wolfspraulmostly you will read "no usb hub", but actually sometimes a usb hub can make such problems go away15:07
wpwrakmaybe a different USB cable15:11
C-Keenor a different machine... :/15:11
C-KeenI just retried with nothing else connected to the usb host15:11
wolfspraulI don't think that will make a difference15:14
wolfspraulif you have an external usb hub, try connecting the Nano behind the usb hub15:14
wolfspraulbut only if you have one flying around somewhere15:14
wolfspraulbetter approach would be to try a different host, or to boot from SD15:14
wolfspraulor to try jzboot15:14
wolfspraulor xbboot even, not sure whether we have a working zimage+initramfs now15:15
wolfspraulthere is a boot-zImage.sh, did your xburst-tools install that?15:19
wolfspraulI need to ask xiangfu about the status of it, can't find a zimage for download now...15:21
wolfspraulthere is one http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.xbboot-02152011-0100/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-zImage.bin15:23
wolfspraulit's a long shot, but try to wget that file, then xbboot -u 0x80600000 /PATH/TO/zImage.bin15:24
wolfspraulI'm just curious whether that boots, even if it does I don't know how you can then reflash your nand :-)15:24
Action: C-Keen plays the lab rat15:25
wolfspraulxbboot reuses the same stage1 as usbboot though, so if there is a low-level usb problem, it will show here as well15:25
C-Keenhm, I think the usb host is broken15:29
C-Keen[  662.766052] usb 1-2: usbfs: USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed cmd xbboot rqt 64 rq 1 len 0 ret -11015:29
C-Keenform dmesg15:29
C-KeenI will try booting a live cd on another machine15:30
wolfspraulyou can try rebooting the host too, of course15:32
wolfspraulI read the backlog, good luck! we'll get the Ben back up, I'm sure...15:32
wolfspraul(this -110 thing from xbboot looks like the usbboot bugs btw, and since it reuses the same stage1 that may just mean that the xbboot idea won't help now)15:33
wolfspraulthat leaves: different host computer, boot from sd, jzboot15:33
wpwrak-110 is a timeout. really sounds like usb physical layer15:39
larscif the device doesn't reponse you'll get a 11015:45
wpwrakyup. and combined with the communication working (most/all of the time) for a bit of control but never/rarely for bulk, this looks like a high BER15:47
wpwrakif BER is high enough, bits of nastiness will also slip past the USB CRC, which would explain the verification errors15:48
wpwrakthat's for BER ranges that still don't cause a total breakdown. just an error that gets to user space every so many thousand packets15:49
wpwraki had this happen in ben-wpan/cntr when my TVS has too large a capacitance. it's easy to detect if you add some more redundancy and test that as well15:50
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: RTC: Add support for the JZ4760 SoC to the rtc-jz4740 driver http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/afcc6b415:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: JZ47XX: Fix JZ4760 access to vmalloc'ed memory http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/018386115:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: JZ47XX: Add GPIO ports for JZ4760 and some JZ4760 pin defintions http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/ae4e7f015:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: JZ47XX: Add PWM support for JZ4760 http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/f39970915:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ47XX: Further generalize clock support http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/c1e9dbc15:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: FBDEV: JZ4740: Add basic jz4760 support http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/2f1f65e15:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MMC: Make the JZ4740 driver availabe on JZ4760 http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/305091d15:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4760: Add more platform device defintions http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/f7ff3ac15:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4740: Fix NR_IRQS http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/ec9900915:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4760: Fix NR_IRQS http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/22e8c0915:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4760: lepus: Register more peripherals http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/d85e1af15:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4750: xz0032: Fix gpio-charger platform data http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b3f02bb15:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MMC: JZ4740: Drop clock_id field from platform data http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/f61158c15:53
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4740: Fix pwm http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/6b0152615:53
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: BOOKSHELF.ingenic: partially resurrected for it's merely in the twilight http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/3d61f7815:58
rejonlots of commits!16:19
kyakgot Nook Color :) already tired of scrolling down through "Terms and Conditions" :)16:37
kyakdon't be jealous, this one is for my wife.. though i'm scratching my hands to root it16:38
larscthere must be a gpl license in there somewhere16:38
kyakit's Android-based, so yes, somewhere must be something16:39
rjeffrieswpwral possibly useful info re PCB manufacturing http://dangerousprototypes.com/2011/03/18/quirks-of-pcb-manufacturing-at-itead/17:24
rjeffriesthis will not work for pcbs that plug into 8:10 slot due to thickness. still interestingt IMO17:31
wpwrakrjeffries: yeah, parameters of the lower end of the standard range. that via hole really shouldn't have happened, though. i do that kind of stuff by hand on a particularly clumsy day :)17:32
wpwrakthere's a surprisingly large number of pcb shops that have good prices but can only do 1.6 mm. i wonder why. you need 0.8 mm for more and more things these days.17:33
lekernelwpwrak: not for arduino hacks17:45
wpwraklekernel: true. there, a plank of wood, a bit of wire, and a hammer should do17:48
rjeffriesspeaking of arduino ;) wpwrak would it be feasible to interface Ben via SPI to this Arduino that has Ethernet?17:52
rjeffrieswpwrak http://www.freetronics.com/blogs/news/2866922-etherten-production-has-begun-arduino-with-built-in-ethernet17:52
C-Keenwpwrak: success in flashing kernel on another host. Seems the usb chip has some physical problems on the other machine17:52
wpwrakC-Keen: congratulations on the success ! yeah, usb can sometimes be odd. hard to tell which side is to blame17:54
C-Keenwpwrak: I think I will blame this old machine17:55
wpwrakrjeffries: dunno. if they didn't use both SPI ports (i've seen two in atmegas, one shared with icsp and the other shared with the uart), then yes. otherwise maybe. i don't see the schematics.17:57
Action: C-Keen smiles at the SUCCESS messages scrolling by17:59
rjeffrieswpwrak I have sent message to @JonOxner asking for EtherTen schematics18:04
rjeffriesdavid K check your PayPay ypou should have my payment. I sent 2x what you requested. hope that is OK. ;)19:17
kristianpaul:o :-)19:19
kristianpaulthats sharims my friend !!19:19
tuxbrainrjeffries: (spi com) It can take me some time but I'm on it, I think is totally posible, I see various examples on avr spi slave code19:23
rejonman, i need one of those UBB19:30
rejonthose are cool19:30
rejondoes wolfgang have one?19:30
rejonspending next 3 weeks in beijing19:30
kristianpaulrejon: i bet you can get manufactured some UBB at beijing in the meantime there :-)19:31
kristianpaulstreetjob <- words from wolfgang19:34
tuxbrainrejon: you will come to EU some time soon?19:35
rejonkristianpaul wolfgang said making UBB Is a streetjob?19:36
rejonlike they will make on the street?19:36
tuxbrainrejon: some video to make you a little bit more anxious to have one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij6UERBt0qQ19:37
kristianpaulhe said that when he manufacture a UBB early version i remenber19:37
kristianpaultuxbrain: you have a nice camera !!19:37
kristianpaulI cant get that zoom with mine :/19:38
tuxbrainnah! a really cheap one is not zoom is that it is really really close :)19:38
kristianpaulnice trick19:39
rejontuxbrain totally19:39
C-Keenthe latest release for qi openwrt has improved a lot since the one my ben nanonote came with19:40
C-Keenthanks for all the patient support again! I will stick around in case I can help someday as well19:41
tuxbrainC_Keen yeah!19:41
kristianpaultuxbrain: yuo are beating all those ISCP programmers out there, you know that !19:42
tuxbrainkristianpaul: or at least making coolest videos than they :)19:47
kristianpaulhahah ;)19:47
kristianpaullarsc: how long take to run linux on that color dictionary before havint the ben as is know today?20:00
larsckristianpaul: hm, i think i got my hands on it for the first time in late 200920:02
larscactually i think it was mid 200920:05
larscthe kernel patches were merged upstream roughly a year after we started development20:06
kristianpaulokay, i was thiking same  (1 year)20:13
kristianpaulfor a official upstream support of course :-)20:13
larscfound a blog post by mirco, apperently we started working on it in august20:14
kristianpauloh, thats a half20:15
kristianpaul+ year20:15
larscbut you have to keep in mind that this was done in my free time20:19
kristianpaulhmm true20:19
kristianpaulokay i'll expecify that 1 and half year is not measured in work hours per men ;)20:20
larscfulltime it would probably be 2 months20:22
larscbtw. anyone needs linux support for some device? me needs a job...20:30
viricI wish to be in a position to give jobs like that!20:30
kristianpaulI may need a php developer next month afaik :/20:39
wpwraktuxbrain: nice video ! ;-)20:56
wpwraklarsc: hmm, you may find out that 1 part-time-student-year translates to at least the same amount of time of regular 9-5 cubicle work ;-)21:00
larscwell it was more like irregular weekends and late night rather then part-time21:07
wpwraki.e., all the really productive time :)21:08
larscwont say anything against that21:16
larscjust saying if i had to start from scratch now i would be were we are now less than 2 months. buts thats partly due to that i know the hw and its pitfalls21:18
wpwrakah yes, knowing where the traps are helps, too ;-)21:21
tuxbrainwpwrak: summarizing 40 mins in just 5 was not easy, well not until I found the right music :)21:43
tuxbrainIs curious how the creative part of mind works...21:44
tuxbrainbtw the ardunote video has reach the thousand barrier :)21:45
wpwrakwhen will you get the next batch of UBB made ? ;-)21:45
wpwrakbtw, the message that people want to own more than just 1-2 UBBs seems harder to convey than i thought. maybe you need some simple circuit, make a few variations of it (e.g., change LED colors), and show a bundle of them. so that people see several UBBs in use (soldered, not powered) simultaneously.21:48
wpwrakof course, the price-splitting "competition" will eventually disappear. e.g., dvdk is probably already sorry to have offered the mailing. he must have spent hours on the logistics.21:50
wpwrakalas, once the "splitters" vanish, people will come to pester you with requests for 1-2 units21:53
kristianpaul( part-time-student-year regular 9-5 cubicle work) oh, yes, i agree21:56
wpwrakkristianpaul: do you know why many office buildings have a raised floor ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_floor21:59
kristianpaulwpwrak: no, is not a datacenter thing, thats all? isnt?..22:01
tuxbrainwpwrak: for me is no problem to serve in 1 or 2 units :) is just one item in the shop already created :), I also have just created an "cable" kit bag https://www.tuxbrain.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=189922:02
wpwrakkristianpaul: well, the real reason is that, when your productivity in that cubicle farm drops through the floor, it doesn't hit concrete22:02
viricdoes anybody understand anything about optical media? cd-rw22:02
viricI record it, I can mount it later... but once I eject it, it does not work in any computer anymore.22:03
viricIt's like if the room light broke it22:03
tuxbrainbut yes, I agree we must do more example22:03
kristianpaul(room light broke it) hmm hard to believe..22:04
kristianpaulmay be just scratched disk viric ?22:04
tuxbrainIt can be just of defective  cd-r...22:05
wpwraktuxbrain: ah, you removed the quantity discounts22:05
tuxbrainin the just one unit yes, but the multiple bags still there22:05
virickristianpaul: but it works perfectly until I eject it22:06
wpwrakviric: so you bought the cheap transylvanian discs ?22:06
viricit's cdrw, not cdr.22:06
viricwpwrak: seems like so!22:06
viricI'll try closing all room light :D22:06
viric'switching off'22:06
wpwrakand hide the garlic !22:06
viricoh yes22:06
viricwell, the cdrw are old... two of them (all I tested) have this behaviour22:07
viricbtw, any xorriso-aware person here?22:07
viricI can't make it write an iso.22:07
kristianpaulwell my cdrw writer failed this year, no reason, and i never used more than twice :/22:08
kristianpaulviric: may be you need once of those to be sure you dont lost data again http://ur1.ca/3kjjm ;-)22:10
virichm I'll read the article22:11
kristianpaulwpwrak: (floor) the office in wich i work, dont have a raised floor, but is in a second floor, i hope that help a bit ;-)22:14
wpwrakkristianpaul: hmm. perhaps that's the reason why accounting, legal, etc., and particularly upper management usually occupy the higher floors22:16
tuxbrainmmm maybe is time to knock the door of a big one :) http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2011/03/17/arduino-and-nanonote/22:41
kristianpaultuxbrain: cheers !!22:44
kristianpaultuxbrain: i'm amazed how the arduino word can spread over the world so fast22:44
wpwrak"Prove you are human by reading this resistor" ;-))22:44
wpwrakthey should remove the sliders. just ask for the value.22:45
wpwraktuxbrain: do you remember anyone ever using the acceleration sensor of gta02 to make a "mouse" ?22:46
wpwraktuxbrain: i kinda wonder if this sort of thing would be feasible22:47
wpwraktuxbrain: because if it is, one could make a nice little mouse for the ben, too22:48
tuxbrainwpwrak: I remember a touchscreen ->mouse, and there was the mokomaze with very smooth movements , so I think is totally feasible22:48
tuxbrainbut... you think move the whole device to have mouse is ergonomic? (cool there is not doubt) but I should preffer a touchscreen ... really22:50
wpwraktuxbrain: i'm thinking of double integration to turn acceleration into position. plus noise filtering for the clicks.22:50
wpwraktuxbrain: yes, mouse ergonomics. sure, touch screen would be nicer. but, given the current ben ...22:51
tuxbrainmmmm , an 8:10 mouse....22:51
wpwraktuxbrain: besides, it would be another "cool accessory"22:51
rjeffrieswpwrak schematics for Arduino clone with Ethernet: (see DF reference near bottom) http://www.freetronics.com/products/etherten22:52
Action: kristianpaul tought about making a UBB a play/stop/forward control for GMU22:52
tuxbrainrjeffries there is also SPI ethernet modules out there, smaller than a full arduino that can be used for have ethernet conenctivitiy in NN is matter to make the software to make it work22:53
Action: kristianpaul have ethernet in his plans, but need get sone some ther tasks before start that22:54
tuxbrainThere is any software dude that can helpme on an nanonote Arduino IDE?22:54
rjeffriestuxbrain VERY nice job on the UBB with instructons and ribbon cable22:54
kristianpaulso rjeffries feel free !22:54
tuxbrainthaks rjeffries :)22:55
kristianpaultuxbrain: why not just run jlime and ran a python ide for arduino?22:55
kristianpauli think there are some already22:55
rjeffriesthank kristian[pau;. I can always rely on you and lekernel22:55
kristianpauli hope lighter than java i hope22:55
tuxbrainyeah there is phyton and qt IDE but they are thinked for bigger screens22:55
kristianpaultuxbrain: mainlly you need an editor22:55
kristianpaultuxbrain: find it, and hack the other buttons is the easy part i guess22:56
kristianpaulat leas pinguino projected started like that22:56
kristianpauleditor/text editor/s22:56
kristianpaulhey why not nano?22:56
tuxbrainArduino guys will prefer graphical IDE, they are scared by shell.... (sigh)22:57
kristianpauloh welll22:58
kristianpaulyou need a nano SDL port ;-)22:58
kristianpaulxedit, but that for X22:58
tuxbrainyes I need to find a text editor able to do code coloring, and add the creation of the make file and run make and avrdude in the backend22:58
kristianpauland wait in jlime there is a gtkeditor22:58
tuxbrainSDL is a pain on text22:58
kristianpaulX way to go then22:58
kristianpaulgtkeditor is in jlime already22:59
kristianpaulbut color hmm22:59
kristianpaulyou ask for so much.. ;-)22:59
tuxbrainthey have fixed the gtk problem with open/save file dialogs?22:59
wpwrakecho "!! your project here" >foo; while vi foo; do sed /!!/d foo >foo.c; make 2>&1 | sed s/^!!/ | cat - foo.c >foo; [ do-the-pipestatus-thing ] && avrdude ...; done22:59
kristianpaultuxbrain: nano have colors support, is just matter of add some files23:01
tuxbrainwpwrak: you wanna make the arduino guy piss in his pants isn't it?23:01
wpwraktuxbrain: you mean because my UI is superior ? ;-)23:02
kristianpaultuxbrain: i insist add some color even short cuts and nanote can slightly pass as an IDE for then23:02
Action: kristianpaul cheers wpwrak UI23:02
tuxbrainkristianpaul: yeah also joe, but again... if we wanna hit the "arduino" average user, we must go to the hard part and make a grapical IDE...23:03
kristianpaulgrapical = lots of buttons?23:03
tuxbrainto hit the avr crowd (hail!) the nano aproach is more than efficient23:03
tuxbrainbut as you have see , say avr and few will look say Arduino and even your grandma will head up23:04
tuxbrainI'm thinking even to mimic the Arduino IDE colour schem and icons whatever posible but having in mind the 320x200 limits23:06
tuxbrainbut yes at the end is just an editor with some extra funtions23:06
wpwraktuxbrain: you probably want an editor with very smooth handling of lines wider than the screen.23:08
tuxbrainwpwrak: yeah!23:09
kristianpaultuxbrain: what if you stick editor to screen and "IDE" buttons to keyboard, i guess you dont mind labeling functions keys with some arduino-ide-like pics?23:10
kristianpauleven better23:10
kristianpauluse the space up the function keys23:11
kristianpaulthre is plenty of space thre for labeling23:11
Action: kristianpaul just discover a horrible dust in the center of his nanonote screen :-/23:11
tuxbrainkristianpaul: not a bad idea dude!!!!23:12
kristianpaulhe, finally ! :-)23:12
tuxbrainwich starting point you recomend, leapfrog, or at least with widget set (gtk, qt, tlc, sdl(no way due no text input clean solution))23:17
tuxbrainthat works on frambuffer of course23:17
kristianpaulyou need compare how text visualices there23:18
Action: tuxbrain realize he is totally dumb in C23:18
tuxbrainbut to make something efficient an quik is the way to go23:19
tuxbrainIf I not remember bad qt renders it pretty good in his demo editor23:20
kristianpaulthere are many way to go, even in C i think23:20
tuxbrainhow is the state on the qt libs in actual distros?23:21
whitequarktuxbrain: if you mean desktop ones, then very good. it's the framework kde is based on23:22
kristianpaultuxbrain: nanomap runs, and some other Qt demos, thats much to say i think23:23
kristianpaultuxbrain: i think also at UNAL where using Qt IDE for making some stuff for SIE i remenber23:23
tuxbrainwhitequark: sorry I'm refering to the Nanonote distros :)23:25
kristianpaulQt creator i think..23:25
kristianpaulalso there are instructiosn for cross compile if you look at SIE archives at wiki23:26
tuxbrainkristianpaul: good, then I can start playing with qt-designer23:26
kristianpaulya that one23:26
rjeffriestuxbrain is famous http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/?p=1024723:28
Action: tuxbrain geek proud is out of bounds23:30
Action: rjeffries remembers way way back when I suggested Ben to Arduino on the list and recieved very loud SILENCE. ;)23:30
tuxbrainrjeffries: I'm sorry but I have prior art on this :P23:30
rjeffriestuxbrain what you and wprwak have accomplished with Ben to Arduino should give wolfgang a nice increment in Ben sales23:31
tuxbrainI have proposed Arduino/NN stuff before you come in scenne23:31
Action: rjeffries challenges tucbrain as patent troll. <g>23:31
rjeffrieswell I just hope this gets the publicity it deserves23:32
rjeffrieswolfgang consider approaching Adafruit industries to get them to be USA distributor ofr Nanonote23:33
rjeffriesthey can sell it as a clever Arduino programmer.23:33
rjeffrieswhy not?23:33
tuxbrainrjeffries: look at archives for a post "Ya (or Mu suggestions)" on 30/07/09 :)23:36
tuxbrainrjeffries: wolfspraul wil have a lot more chances to success with even a proto graphical IDE on it.23:36
rjeffriesthat is indeed very early Tuxbrain the ink was not yet dry on the qi-hardware site23:37
wpwraktuxbrain: hmm, didn't you post the arduino-loves-ben on a site like hackaday ? i forgot the exact place23:37
rjeffriesthat was in the Steve Mosher days. he has sadly passed on I guess. may he RIP. ;)23:37
rjeffriesI wish I would have NOT returned the pre-Ben with Chinese keyboard I had in my possesion. a true collector's item23:38
tuxbrainSure Steve will at least smile if he saw the Ardunano stuff :)23:38
rjeffriesi'll send him a link on FB23:39
tuxbrainrjeffries: please let me do so :)23:39
rjeffriestuxbrain sorry i was already in FB only saw your comment when I returned here.23:41
tuxbrainyou are old but quick dude :P23:41
rjeffriesthat is exactly my wife's complaint ;)23:42
tuxbrainI have been splitted don't know if you have read this23:59
tuxbrainwolfspraul: >1000 views, published in http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/?p=10247 and http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2011/03/17/arduino-and-nanonote/ , I think time to work in a proto Ardunote IDE to catch even more atention23:59
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