#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2011-03-17

tuxbrainwpwrak: for quote pic, components and qty :) yes they have enough :)00:10
wpwrakexcellent :)00:11
tuxbrainwpwrak: hurry up with you setup man, wpan is near to hit the real world :)00:12
tuxbrainwpwrak: can you feel the preasure?... If I get ruined four you fault I will search for you man, I have your address :P00:13
tuxbrainHey SILENT Nanonoters out there how many of you are interested on having a wireless NN and how much are you willing to spend?00:17
kristianpaultuxbrain: hi00:17
tuxbrainhi kristianpaul00:17
kristianpaultuxbrain: got ubb, the thing was, the included taxes also to the shipping costs :-(00:17
wpwrakkristianpaul: that's unfortunately quite common00:18
tuxbrainsorry dude :(00:18
kristianpaulno problem :-)00:18
tuxbrainbut I have to put them on the invoce...00:18
kristianpaulsharis never did00:18
tuxbrainyep  :(00:18
wpwraktuxbrain: ah, have you send my UBBs yet ? if yes, do you have a tracking number ?00:18
tuxbrainmaybe in taiwan/china works different, here in spain I have to put in the invoice00:19
kristianpaulbut of course everycountru have his laws00:19
kristianpaulsure i understand00:19
kristianpaulwell i remenber i had similar issue with TNT when i bought some RFM12b modules..00:20
tuxbrainwpwrak: yes, as far as I know thy should be in clearance on custom, I will give you the track tomorrow when I can ask to courier00:20
Jay7tuxbrain: will it be possible to use wpa2-psk on NN?00:20
tuxbrainjay: wireless != WIFI00:21
wpwraktuxbrain: thanks !00:21
tuxbrainJay7: I'm talking about the wpan modules00:21
Jay7I've misunderstood :)00:22
Action: Jay7 wish to have remote control handsfree for NN00:23
tuxbrainJay7: I'm pretty sure you will be not the only one, I have to put a BIG adverticing on wpan devices that they are not to connect to WIFI00:23
tuxbrainremote control handsfree?00:23
tuxbrainyou mean IR?00:24
angelox_123Hi all00:24
tuxbrainhi angelox_12300:25
angelox_123i have a question,i don't know if you can answer for me00:25
angelox_123the Mediatek MT6235 can be compared to Mediatek MT6238 ?00:25
Jay7tuxbrain: no, I mean headphones with remote control to play/pause/change tracks00:26
kristianpaultuxbrain: UBB ARE AWESOME SMALL :-)00:26
Action: kristianpaul happy00:26
tuxbrainkristianpaul: pretty isn't it? :P00:26
tuxbrainnow do somthing fancy a post it somewhere dude :)00:27
angelox_123any help?00:27
kristianpaulangelox_123: hi00:28
angelox_123kristianpau: hi00:28
kristianpaulsteve|m: ^00:29
angelox_123kristianpaul: do you have some idea about that ?00:29
tuxbrainangelox_123: wrong channel00:30
angelox_123sure ?00:30
kristianpaulnot but may be at #osmocon i think00:30
tuxbrainyeah pretty sure :)00:30
kristianpaulnot now !00:30
angelox_123oh ok00:30
kristianpaulno no00:30
angelox_123sorry bother00:30
kristianpaulno no, is okay00:30
kristianpaulmediatek have interesting chips00:30
tuxbrainif kristianpaul is ok then is oke00:31
tuxbrainoke-> ok00:31
kristianpaulangelox_123: are you working this this chips?00:31
angelox_123no-one on #osmocon00:31
angelox_123not exactly00:31
wejptuxbrain, about the playlist filtering: ive already thought about tht and I ll most likely implement some sort of filtering/searching, but it will probably not be ready with the next release00:31
angelox_123i was working on intel pxa***00:31
wpwrakwolfgang may know something about the mediatek chips00:32
angelox_123i got a phone here and i want to port gnu/linux to it00:32
kristianpaulI guess you found thoios http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Sciphone_Dream_G2 ?00:32
angelox_123yep :)00:32
kristianpaulangelox_123: so you know osmocom?00:32
tuxbrainwejp: no rush, I'm just happy knowing you are on it :)00:32
angelox_123i knew it today :)00:32
angelox_123my phone is a MotoTV EX245,runs on that mediatek...it's slowwwwwww00:33
kristianpaulangelox_123: just in case you dont http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/MT623500:33
angelox_123i didn't see that page00:34
angelox_123thank you00:34
kristianpaulhang up here, btw !00:34
kristianpaulphones are part of the copyleft hardware thing00:35
angelox_123what is the qi-hardware in general ?00:35
kristianpaulCopyleft Hardware00:37
kristianpaulangelox_123: an this just in case too http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/SciphoneDreamG200:37
angelox_123i'm using that page to learn more :)00:38
angelox_123what copyleft mean does? (bad english here :(         )00:38
angelox_123ah ok00:39
kristianpaulangelox_123: you know what is copyright?00:39
angelox_123i saw now on google :) hehehe00:39
kristianpaullike in books00:39
kristianpaulah, ok :-)00:39
angelox_123just like GNU GPL,Creative Commons licenses ..00:40
kristianpaulnot all Creative Commons but yes00:40
kristianpaulokay, in any case i think #osmocom channel is good for you to join, or ask in their mail lists00:41
angelox_123no one on #osmocom :(00:41
tuxbrainwpwrak: who was "in charge" on openmoko servers?00:42
angelox_123i get wrong name on joininng00:42
wpwraktuxbrain: roh and gismo00:42
tuxbrainwpwrak roh : you are seting up list any place else? some guys are asking me on identica00:43
angelox_123Good night everybody!00:43
wpwraktuxbrain: roh has gone incommunicado. for several days already.00:45
wpwraktuxbrain: gismo's always been the silent type. roh usually acted as his spokesman.00:46
wolfspraulwpwrak: what happened to your om email address?01:47
wolfspraulbtw - 'sudden' sounds somewhat ironic to me :-)01:48
wpwrakwolfspraul: server is no longer reachable (since saturday) and roh stopped responding as well (since monday)01:53
wpwrakwolfspraul: (sudden) well, we knew it wouldn't last forever, but it's still a surprisingly unclean shutdown01:53
wpwrakwolfspraul: kinda the chinese way - pull the plug and ignore you01:54
wolfspraulhe :-)01:57
wolfspraultuxbrain: 600 views for your ardunote video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_wjXZmVWsI&feature=youtu.be02:16
wolfspraulnot bad!02:16
wolfspraulinteresting - MediaTek acquired Ralink, makers of wifi chips02:41
wolfspraulwhich according to Wikipedia is "one of the few Wi-Fi chipset manufacturers that provide documentation without a non-disclosure agreement."02:42
wolfspraulso I guess we'll see more integrated Mediatek chipsets with Wi-Fi02:42
wolfspraulsimilar to Qualcomm acquiring Atheros, I guess02:42
wpwrakany prediction about future RAxxxx openness ?02:42
wolfspraulno idea02:42
wolfspraulin the end these are all proprietary IP companies, they believe in the value of their proprietary IP02:43
wolfspraulat the very best they will 'get' the idea of open APIs/standards, similar to Microsoft had the idea of giving away free SDKs in the 90's02:43
wolfspraulhopefully they will get at least that, yeah02:43
wolfsprauljust management blurb there02:48
wolfspraulbut the move makes sense imho02:48
wpwrak(that 5 axis cnc) wow ;-)03:21
wpwraklacks rotation of the piece, though03:22
wolfspraulhis funding is not coming together well though03:23
wpwrakwhen did he submit the project ?03:24
wpwrakalso, this sort of monster is a bit of a niche product ...03:25
wpwrakwhat would be nice is a good arbitrary-size router. someone made one with a toy robot. you let the robot walk to the area where you want to work and then the robot can move around a little and thus control the bit. probably very inaccurate in this case, but improvements would certainly be possible03:29
wpwrake.g., with a vision system for positioning03:30
kristianpaulI got a RCA male to male cable and the middle of the night :-)04:02
kristianpaulah wolfgang is gone..04:04
LunohoDlarsc: there is an issue in jz4740_nand.c: it should be "cmdlinepart" instead of "cmdline"07:05
LunohoDand I2C_JZ47XX depends on MACH_JZ4740, imho07:06
wolfspraulkristianpaul: you there? Can I convert that video to ogv and upload to the qi wiki under cc-by/sa ?07:27
wolfspraulas long as the milkymist wiki does not support ogv we should still collect them in ogv somewhere, I believe07:27
wolfspraulthat will allow me to use them in news posts, and we can later easily copy/move them to the milkymist wiki too07:27
larscLunohoD: you are right, I will fix it. thanks07:27
wolfspraulthe video looks interesting, but I cannot quite tell where the video picture is :-)07:30
LunohoDlarsc: is your new i2c driver for jz47xx not stable? it generates too much debug info ;)07:30
larscit is not really. it is not clear to me, when the hw generates irqs and the pm doesn't tells me either. the driver has probably to be reworked without irq support.07:37
LunohoDok, i'll use the old one07:39
kyakxiangfu: ping07:39
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: restore options as of openwrt-xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/bdc44cb07:46
tuxbrainwolfspraul: (Ardunote Video) 650+ now :P09:03
kyakRNDIS is still not working as of
kyaki think it's gone forever :)09:34
viricwhat is rndis?10:24
tuxbrainviric: to enable usb-ethernet on windows10:25
Jay7kyak: we have .38 now in OE but w/o patches for NN currently10:25
tuxbrainwolfspraul: I'm a bit worried about marketing on atben/atusb10:25
Jay7but anyway I have no time to test before weekend10:25
tuxbrainwolfspraul: when we start selling apart of the testing sofware of wpwrak there will be nothing else10:26
kyakJay7: i see10:27
tuxbrainwolfspraul: I don't have a clear picture of who in the community is able to develop useful protocol/uses cases on that10:28
tuxbrainwolfspraul: Don't get me wrong, as equal as UBB i feel is something that must be done , and will be done10:28
rohhm. my protoype still isnt delivered10:31
tuxbrainwolfspraul: but the diference that contrary to UBB where I see a clear use case and I was able to manage to do something useful and showable , with atben/atusb is that I don't feel confident to do anything with it and I totally depend on comunity to make to do so, and even I don't know the people and their goals to try to help them to achive or at least give them visibility10:32
wolfspraulyes, good point. I fully agree.10:33
tuxbrainroh: mmmm any customs isue?10:33
wolfspraulwe have these discussions with zedstar who may be able to help10:33
tuxbrainany info on zedstar goals/roadmap?10:34
tuxbrainplease all nanonote silent listeners out there, If you have anything to say in that (NN wpan) please speak, I need your brain.10:36
wolfspraulI don't have much info on the goals/roadmap, I think it's pretty open10:37
Action: tuxbrain enters zombie mode10:37
wolfspraulI am spread thin among a lot of different things, it will be hard for me to ramp up a lot of time right now.10:37
wolfspraulmaybe zedstar will reply later in this channel, that would be cool. then we are all on the same page.10:38
tuxbrainwolfspraul: I know your time constrains, I'm not pushing you at all :) I'm just sharing my worries with the other one that has scratch (heavily) his pocket on this project , :P10:40
tuxbrainfor example there is one thing than stills unclear for me, will be atben/atusb zigbee compatible with the appropiate software? without enter on licence or propietary stuff, just technically.10:41
rohtuxbrain: no clue10:42
kristianpaulwolfspraul:(video) sure!!, (i think i'll firm a doc autorizing you to dont ask me that always ;-))10:42
rohtuxbrain: its not as if this argentinian tracking woudl do anything sensible10:43
kristianpaulwolfspraul: hehe sorry vide was a test i just *suddently* got the cable from a friend10:43
tuxbrainfor me is clear or at least I have put my hands on this with the hope one day atben/atusb will be as easy to use as plug and have a  /dev/whatever and configurable though ifconfig to have a network  using 6lowpan10:44
wolfspraulkristianpaul: but the video-in itself is working? in the video I can hardly tell what it is supposed to be10:44
kristianpaulwolfspraul: yes10:44
wolfspraultuxbrain: I think it is hardware compatible with zigbee, yes. but the software effort is significant.10:44
kristianpaulyou sopposed well10:44
tuxbrainbut as much I search on 6lowpan the more fear I have this is a loooooong road until we arive, and long road and hardware in stock is fearful situation10:45
wolfspraulyes. the board itself has to be the breakthrough for 6lowpan as well :-)10:45
wolfspraulthe good news is that these things are typically moving very slowly. so if 6lowpan takes off, we have x years to market the product.10:46
tuxbrainroh: apart of the envelop (really important also), do you have any goal in mind for atben/atusb?10:49
rohnothing specific yet. i'll see if i have a great idea for a case10:51
tuxbrainwolfspraul: while (good news && very slowly == false){} is not a ethernal loop?10:52
tuxbrainwell whatever, gonna make some UBB cable tutorial , when we know the full costs on atben/atusb we will have more material to worry about, so for the record, please any supporter with skills I beg you to ear your voice , I sleep better knowing I'm not alone :)10:57
wpwraktuxbrain: any luck with the tracking number ?11:01
wpwrakroh: hey ! one person missing after the quake less :) the wpan kits may still be on their way. snail-mail to europe can sometimes take curious paths.11:03
wpwraktuxbrain: (zigbee) the hw is designed for ieee 802.15.4-2003/2006. ZigBee rides on top of this. so, besides the licensing issue and a bit of software work, speaking zigbee without much of an accent should be no problem.11:04
wpwrakroh: (paths) like argentina -> brazil -> eu-country-1 -> eu-country-2 -> eu-country-3 -> FRA/MUC -> 1-2 days travel within .de11:06
rohwpwrak: mail should work again11:06
rohhrhr.. i see... well.. tracking is kinda stuck11:07
rohand this carrier for germany.. never heard of. no clue how to format the number for their webform11:07
wpwrakroh: (mail) wow, thanks ! what was it ?11:19
tuxbrainwpwrak: (wpan soft devel) yeah my main worry is who will do that software efforts , I will need an step by step guide to do anything with them, develop anything is totally out of my actual skills, and I don't see any clear path/ interest/goals/proposals apart from a little light of hope in zedstar commintment11:22
wpwraktuxbrain: zedstar's plan is for something at the end of 2011 or in 2012, so that won't help11:22
tuxbrainwpwrak: thanks to shut out the little light , now I'm totally blind :P11:23
wpwraktuxbrain: my plan is to get the stuff that's already around to sort of run quickly. it won't be efficient or nice, but it should let you do some things11:24
wpwraktuxbrain: but first i need to do the ubuntu downgrade, the mail migration, prepare the fab files, and prepare some production testing kit. well, the latter can perhaps also wait, depending on the schedule you get from the smt fab.11:25
Action: tuxbrain wants to marry you but he is already married11:26
viricAre people here in 'element-14.com'?11:27
rohwpwrak: not fully sure. somehow the host crashed11:27
wpwraktuxbrain: ;-)11:30
wpwrakroh: hmm. well, i better see the migration through now, given that i've already announced it. at least i'll still be able to recover all those accesses to accounts with throwaway passwords where the de facto password is your email :)11:31
wpwraktuxbrain: also richard sharpe promised to help on the sw side. he won't have time before the end of next week or so, though. his wpan kit arrived yesterday.11:32
viricnot many i see11:53
viricneither I11:54
tuxbrainthis secon cable cost me ages copared to the first one :( , and now I also have a proper connector and a schotty(or watever called) diode....12:42
wpwrakwhy did it take so much longer ? added complexity ? clumsy day ?12:55
tuxbrainI think is the second one... I think late night is my solder time, today making things stand in place  was very hard....13:04
wpwraknight is much better for this sort of work. everything's quiet, no interruptions, ...13:06
tuxbrainI also burn my skin twice and the hot glue gun has broken(use to happen with crap cheap tools)13:11
tuxbrainbut well is done and I think I have good video material that was the objective13:11
wpwrakart must suffer :)13:13
wpwrakroh: nice example for circuitous postal routes: UPS from barcelona to buenos aires: barcelona - cologne - miami - el salvador - costa rica - buenos aires13:32
tuxbrainwpwrak: you have UBB yet?13:49
wpwraktuxbrain: nope, still waiting13:52
wpwraktuxbrain: UPS online tracking hasn't any update for today yet either. so i don't know if they're already on their way or not. sometimes, a courier logs an event but only updates the tracking several hours later, so that doesn't say much. we'll see.13:53
kyakthe error messages are less than informative14:05
kyak*messages from cmake14:05
wpwraknow .. let's see if that ubuntu downgrade works ... best case: i'll be up in 5 min with everything back to normal. worst case: total reinstall from cd.14:12
panda|x201wolfspraul, ping14:16
C-Keendoes anyone know if the spectec sdw 823 is available in europe? (if so, where?)14:27
wolfspraulpanda|x201: what's up?14:45
wolfspraulC-Keen: maybe pulster.de still has some, although he is asking for an extortionist price :-)14:45
C-Keenwow 89 EUR14:47
C-Keenwolfspraul: but thanks for the hint14:48
wpwrakwolfspraul: i'm very happy that the wlan card is so expensive ;-)14:48
C-Keenwpwrak: who come?14:48
wpwrakC-Keen: because if it was cheaper, it would be hard to position the wpan cards. we have low volume, so the production cost will be high in comparison.14:49
C-KeenSorry, I don't understand the meaning of position here14:50
C-Keenoh now I see14:52
lekernelmicrosd wifi?14:52
lekernelwhat's inside? one big chip?14:53
wolfsprauloh sure, they had it for years14:53
wolfspraulsmall Japanese startup, Taiwanese microSD packaging firm14:53
wolfspraulbut it's all dead now :-)14:53
wolfspraulthe Japanese startup went out of business, half the people were let go, and the engineering team sucked up by Renesas14:53
lekernelever torn one of those down?14:53
C-Keenwpwrak: what's a wpan card?14:54
wolfspraulRenesas has since discontinued stand-alone wifi products and the engineering team has been absorbed into Renesas large communication chips14:54
wolfspraulmeanwhile on the packaging side, the microSD card also never took off because Windows Mobile had some blocks in place against SDIO, probably on pressure from network operators14:54
wolfspraulso Spectec could never make enough to recoup their costs either14:55
wpwrakC-Keen: these thingies: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/2boards-20110305.jpg14:55
wolfspraula financial disaster for everybody14:55
wpwrakC-Keen: they're IEEE 802.15.4, not 802.11a/b/g/n14:55
wolfspraullong discontinued. the only items you can still find here and there is from old inventory.14:55
lekernelha, funny, google image for that spectec yields some nanonote pictutes :)14:55
wolfspraulbut it was a good try, definitely14:55
wolfspraulI even went to Tokyo to meet with the WiFi chip designers :-)14:55
C-Keenwpwrak: so you need a couple to setup a link with another machine?14:55
lekernelwolfspraul: so what do they have? one big mixed signal asic?14:56
wolfspraulthe card is very impressive, wifi performance etc.14:56
wolfsprauldon't know, Renesas is big14:56
wolfspraulsome 3G/LTE thing14:56
lekernelno, I'm talking about how that microsd wifi card works, technically14:56
wolfspraulI don't know.14:56
wpwrakC-Keen: yes. unless you already have an ieee 802.15.4 card. it's an open standard, but not very widely known in the consumer market.14:56
wpwrakC-Keen: it's more an industry thing. sensor networks and such.14:57
wolfspraulI mostly went there to ask for firmware sources or binaries. I got an updated binary eventually, no sources of course.14:57
C-Keenwpwrak: ah bummer14:58
wpwrakC-Keen: that's why we'll have one for the ben and one, with usb, for the pc. no need to look elsewhere :)15:05
C-Keenwpwrak: I do see its merits. I am looking for more general connectivity though :)15:05
Siggisomeone there?15:07
wolfspraulwhat can we do for you?15:07
Siggiah cool ... i have a problem with my soundsystem15:08
jow_laptopwrong channel15:08
Siggiah ok which channel should i join?15:08
Siggimh no answer15:11
Siggi-.- all15:11
wpwrakand another little reboot ...15:18
C-Keenis the reflash ben script obsolete? The link now points to the tree view of the repository15:26
wolfspraulnot obsolete, maybe a bad link/redirect15:26
wolfspraulcan you post the link that is causing a problem?15:27
C-Keenthat's the one on the http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Reflash_ben.sh page15:27
C-KeenI've tried with wget/ftp and firefox, so it seems to be a serverside problem15:29
wolfspraulsure, wait15:30
wolfspraulC-Keen: I fixed the redirect, but my browser doesn't pick it up because the redirect was flagged as 'permanent'15:42
wolfspraulanother lesson learnt15:42
C-Keenshouldn't it link to http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/file/master/nanonote-files/data/qi_lb60/scripts/reflash_ben.sh?15:46
C-Keenthat is s,tree,file, ?15:46
C-Keenwolfspraul: ^15:46
wolfspraulah true!15:48
C-Keenthanks again15:49
wolfspraulno thank you!15:49
wolfspraulfor detailed report and all.15:49
wolfspraulwe recently moved the script and forgot the redirects15:49
C-Keenhm... I am waiting for the graphical yadda yadda to load for quite a while now after I've quite my bash15:50
C-Keenguess it is still a bit unstable :)15:51
wolfsprauldon't understand. you mean on your Ben?15:52
wolfspraulare you reflashing? booting? something else?15:52
C-KeenI was just opening a shell to setup networking for file transfer, then quit the shell with ctrl-d15:53
C-Keenand then it hung. I have started the shell by selecting /bin/bash in the 'explorer' thingy15:53
wolfspraulmaybe you try ctrl-alt-f516:10
wolfspraulI've seen a few cases where the screen seems to get stuck on the wrong side of console/graphics (ctrl-alt-f1 vs. ctrl-alt-f5)16:11
tuxbrainwpwrak: succed on downgrading?18:58
wpwraktuxbrain: yeah. went pretty smoothly. i just copied /bin, /usr, /etc, and so on over from a backup, then ran an upgrade within 10.0419:02
wpwraknow is ups came, that would wrap up the day nicely. it's already 16 o'clock ...19:03
tuxbrain:) tell me your first (and then the ponderated) impressions :)19:07
wpwrakerr, sorry. s/is/if/   i.e., they haven't shown up yet19:08
tuxbrainof course when they arrive dude :)19:13
wpwrakat least on your picture they look quite good. even the 3 mil lines are clear. the solder mask is visibly shifted, but well within the 0.1 mm tolerance.19:18
wpwrakhehee, UPS just arrived :) now let's examine these boards ...19:37
Action: kristianpaul have doubts about the difference between IF central Freq and IF in general...19:37
kristianpaulwpwrak: UBB ! :-)19:37
kristianpaulare spreading over the world it seems :-)19:37
wpwrakah, so the ben's 8:10 slot does have a locking mechanism. first time i see it work ;-)19:42
kristianpaulyeah i wondered too19:49
wpwrakseems that the pcb fab misunderstood the solder mask instructions for the back. the idea was that they should cover it completely with solder mask. well, in the case of UBB, it doesn't matter (in fact, it may even work a little bit better with the ground exposed), but for atben and atusb, we have to make sure they get it right.19:49
wpwraktuxbrain: heh, even 54 units :)19:49
wpwraktuxbrain: your invoice is indeed a little unusual. i don't think you have to list the shipping as if it was an item per se. normally, you have a list of the goods, a sub-total, then the shipping, etc., and a final total.19:50
wpwrakin some cases, it may make a difference if customs think it's all the value of the goods or if shipping is clearly separated19:51
kristianpaulshipping - <-- :D19:51
kristianpaulwpwrak: i bet they dont go to details just check *total* and aply their evil maths..19:52
wpwrakkristianpaul: at least here, it seems pretty random what they do. well, if they include shipping, that seems to be consistent with regulations19:54
kristianpaulsame here, i also think is reduntat declare shipping if the carrier invoice already have it.19:55
wpwraktuxbrain: ah, and the address had "tuxbrain" as _my_ company name :)19:56
kristianpaulhuh? really19:57
kristianpaulwe have new tuxbrain distributor in argentina ;-)19:58
kristianpaulsurelly for Colombia too :D19:58
wpwrakkristianpaul: viral distribution: make each of your customers a franchise as well ;-)20:24
viricToday Farnell sent a letter to us about a possible short on stock from japan20:53
wpwrakthat was to be expected21:06
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