#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-03-16

kristianpaulwpwrak: http://kristianpaul.org/~paul/tmp/atben__iso-8859-1_Q_0110315_CotCristianPe_F1arandaPn.pdf__.pdf (100 Units)02:57
wpwrakmmh, about 180 USD fixed + 1.2 USD per board then, correct ?02:59
kristianpaulwpwrak: seems03:10
kristianpaulwpwrak: wow price go down..03:10
kristianpaula LOT03:10
wolfspraulwhat did you do to bring the price down?03:11
kristianpaulask for 100 units not 1003:12
kristianpaulwell i just _ask_ i said, i'm curios no compromise03:12
wpwraks/compromise/promise/   :)03:13
wpwrakit's just the underlying calculation. real price = large_fixed_cost + units * small_unit_cost03:14
wpwrakso the calculation unit_price = real_price / units  doesn't tell you what larger volumes will cost03:15
wolfspraulah ok, got it03:20
kristianpaulargg this is male conector i dont have a adapter right now...03:34
Action: kyak suddenly breaks into the silence10:47
qi-bot[commit] kyak: qstardict: fix build with 0.9.32 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/90818e811:40
kyakxiangfu_: ping11:53
xiangfu_kyak: hi13:59
xiangfu_(2 hours later)14:00
kyakxiangfu_: he, not a problem :)14:01
kyakxiangfu_: what do you think about ncursesw package in openwrt-packages git? it is necessary for backfire, but won't be necessary for trunk14:02
kyakso we will have to remove it14:02
xiangfu_kyak: we can disable it in config.full_system for now. I was thinking: before we finish the openwrt-xburst.git rebase on 'trunk'. we better leave the openwrt-package.git full suppor the backfire.14:14
kyakxiangfu_: there is not need to disable it, cause it causes no problems. It will just override the ncursesw from trunk. But i was wondering, what should we do after we finish the rebase?14:17
xiangfu_oh. yes. after rebase we will just remove it14:19
kyakso we will basically not support backfire anymore, and people would just checkout the last working git revision, as seen in VERSION, right?>14:21
kyak(if they want to build backfire )14:21
xiangfu_also like 'triggerhappy' stuff. we will try to remove all duplicate packages.14:21
xiangfu_kyak: yes.14:22
kyaki'm also asking it because for exmaple gcc-mips 4.3.3 would fail to build with trunk. But i made gcc-mips 4.5.2 build with trunk14:22
kyakand i really don't want to make gcc-mips 4.5.2 work with backfire, too :)14:22
kyakthat's just double work14:22
kyakprobably not necessary14:23
kyaktherefore, after updated of gcc-mips 4.3.3.->4.5.2 in oprnwrt-packages it would not build anymore with backfire14:23
xiangfu_(probably not necessary) agree with you14:24
xiangfu_yes. if someone really want backfire. as you said using the VERSION files.14:25
kyakthere are other changes required in openwrt-packges. some patches dropped, some added14:25
kyakit's really hard to look back to backfire all the time14:25
kyakok, good :)14:26
xiangfu_sure. that is why 'trunk' packages sometimes not working in 'backfire' :-)14:28
xiangfu_kyak: maybe we start a new branch in openwrt-package for trunk14:28
wpwrakgrmbl. the clearance thingy is highly mysterious. it picks the right value but then draws the wrong size. it gets even better - if i change the value manually in the .pro file, it shows the change in the dialog, yet it still picks the previous one when plotting. i wonder where it gets that from.14:28
kyakxiangfu_: there are onyl few packages in openwrt-packages that have problems when building in trunk. So perhaps another branch is not necessary?14:29
wolfspraulgreat, Ingenic removed all Programmer's Manuals from the FTP server again14:32
wolfspraul"it was a mistake"14:32
xiangfu_no another branch will be great. the less the better :). I am not look into the openwrt-package <--> trunk detail.14:32
wpwrakwolfspraul: :-(14:33
wolfspraulwhat a joke. but - makes Milkymist all the more fun :-)14:33
wolfspraulnext meeting with the CEO I will mostly demo him Milkymist One14:33
wolfspraulI'm learning how to be a good Chinese.14:33
xiangfu_kyak: so agree with you. no another branch :)14:34
xiangfu_kyak: another little thing. what do you thing using all 'commandline apps' using same icon: utilities-terminal.png?14:35
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: BOOKSHELF.ingenic: removed for Ingenic prefer to leave developers in the dark http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/88e0f8214:35
kyakxiangfu_: when you start examining the openwrt-package <--> trunk, let me know, i'll give you some patches :)14:35
xiangfu_kyak: compare to add "[]" to name. or add "C" to icons. maybe change them all to 'utilities-terminal.png' is not a bad idea14:35
xiangfu_kyak: very thanks.14:36
kyakxiangfu_: we had this idea, but you told that emacs and vim won't have their nice icons in this case :)14:36
kyaki like the icon of abook myself :)14:37
wolfspraulwpwrak: that was quick :-)14:38
larscwolfspraul: and you told them!14:38
wolfspraulyou think my email made them realize they were up there?14:39
wolfspraulit's possible, if so that would be bad and I will change my communication style with them.14:39
wolfspraulbut then files already started disappearing before I emailed them, although I am not exactly sure what was removed when.14:40
larscthey would have realized it sooner or later14:40
wolfspraulI'm looking forward to my Milkymist demo...14:40
wpwrakwolfspraul: will you mention that one of the main motivations for doing this is insufficiently open documentation from chip vendors ? :)14:41
wolfspraulthey are not that rational, really14:43
xiangfu_kyak: I think I change my mind. 1. 'utilities-terminal.png' indicate that is a command line app  2. 'utilities-terminal.png' almost half of those program is usually start in 'terminal' (in fact I never first open vim then open file inside vim)14:43
wolfspraulI will try to get the _pms up again, well same as the last 1.5 years14:43
kyakxiangfu_: i think it's OK using utilities-terminal.png for all terminal apps. Maybe we can make exception for some programs, i don't know. But overwall this would be eye catching and clear for users that this is the terminal app they are going to launch14:45
wolfspraulthey are most worried about documentation for the video accelerator, btw14:45
xiangfu_3. it's don't let user down. like beautiful ICON but command line interface.14:45
xiangfu_kyak: yes. sure.14:45
wpwrakthe more video, the more patents. kinda makes sense.14:45
xiangfu_sure. we can keeps some of them like 'abook' 'emacs' :)14:46
wpwrakah, the _ds are still there. okay, then i can bring back some of the bookshelf14:46
xiangfu_kyak: definitely using  utilities-terminal.png in 'bc'14:46
kyakxiangfu_: "tclsh" is a nice icon, too ;)14:47
wolfspraulthe _ds were always public14:48
xiangfu_kyak: I will ask Yi to look into which one using 'utilities-terminal.png' is better. which one keep the beautiful icon.14:49
wpwrakwolfspraul: ah, didn't know that14:49
kyakxiangfu_: all right!14:51
xiangfu_kyak: ok. we done with terminal icons. (probably we will only change two or three to 'terminal.png' after all :D)14:52
tuxbrain!see wpwrak18:19
tuxbrainwow channel without wpwrak for more than two hours.... the end is near... gonna pray some random goods just in case18:21
tuxbrainbtw wejp, thanks a lot for the non-black-if-not-on-frontend feature, It's really usefull to listen music while doing other things :)18:22
tuxbrainwejp, do you have any other features in mind for next releases?19:19
wejpyes, there are a few things. in the next version it will be possible to reduce Gmu`s verbosity on stdout (you can reduce its output in several steps from very verbose to quiet). also i`ve planned to add support for http streaming audio19:21
wejpthere are several other small thing on my todo list, those are just two that came to my mind right now ;)19:22
wejpalso i might add a text.only frontend, but i don19:23
wejpt know if it will be ready with the next release19:23
tuxbrainwow :), any improvemente on shorting/filtering the playlist?19:26
tuxbrainwpwrak: hi, I have the quote for the PCBs and by the end of the week the smt ones20:07
tuxbrainboth 215¬ set up each model , x100 2.4046¬ each unit || 500x 0.6795¬ each unit20:09
tuxbrainso 500x 1,1095¬ each20:11
tuxbrainmm sorry atusb is slightly diferent on price20:16
tuxbrainsame setup price 215¬ but  x100 2.3667¬ each unit || 500x 0.6905¬ each unit20:17
tuxbrainso this one 500x  1,1205 each20:19
tuxbrainwpwrak: have you recived my last input about atben/atusb pcbs? I have experienced problems with inet conection22:47
tuxbrainwell seems is not my inet, it has been registered by the log22:48
wpwraktuxbrain: yes, thanks ! looks quite reasonable22:52
wpwraktuxbrain: for 100 units each, the total cost would be something like EUR 907, so going to +400% pieces is only +22% more expensive22:53
wpwraktuxbrain: how many units would you want to make ?22:54
tuxbrainlet's see how much smt will cost and will tell, but its clear I will go for the 500 pbc's22:55
wpwraktuxbrain: there's also the question whether one would want to make design changes after a first run, e.g., to improve RF characteristics or for any support possibly needed by a case22:56
wpwraktuxbrain: okay, great.22:56
tuxbrainwpwrak: (modifications) well this is part of the game, isn't it?22:57
wpwraktuxbrain: yeah :) also, since you'll "leak" a few boards here and there, e.g., to kristianpaul, it's good to have a bit of a reserve22:58
wpwraktuxbrain: did they say anything about the protective cover ?23:00
tuxbrainnop I will ask23:00
wpwraktuxbrain: and did you ask them about the stencil ? that would normally also come from the pcb fab23:00
tuxbrainyes I have asked them but no answer, but I'm not too much worried due pcb and smt vendors are working quite close, the pcb vendor is the usual board provieder of the smt vendor23:02
tuxbrainsmt vendor was "surprised" I where talking with them directly :)23:02
wpwrakgood. it's always best if they're matched. saves you from nasty surprises :)23:02
wpwrakhehe ;-)23:03
wpwrakit'll take a bit longer until i have the final versions of the fab files. i found a bug in kicad that generates an incorrect solder mask and i haven't figured out yet why this happens23:06
wpwraki'll also have to shut my workstation for a while for maintenance. with the loss of mail.openmoko.org, i need to set up and test my own mail system23:08
wpwrakand that only makes sense on a stable infrastructure. since i upgraded to ubuntu N by accident, i don't have that.23:09
wpwraki was hoping i could just sit it out, but now with the loss of mail added to the mess, that's no longer an option23:10
wpwrakso i'll try to revert to a stable version and try to recover all data added since that checkpoint23:10
wpwrakif i can't revert, i'll have to reinstall my workstation from scratch23:11
wpwrakso it may take 1-2 days before i have things up again. let's hope nothing else goes wrong.23:12
tuxbraindo you want a tuxbrain.org or tuxbrain.com email address?23:12
tuxbrainI pay all my bills :P23:13
wpwrakheh, thanks :) naw, i'll modernize almesberger.net23:14
wpwraka long time ago, i had almesberger.net set up with a vpn for in- and outbound mails, but that meant that everything was handled by my workstation. that was okay when i wasn't away from home for too long, but with the long trips to openmoko, it became increasingly problematic, because any power failure at home usually meant that my systems went down and stayed down23:15
wpwrakthat's why i switched to openmoko.org. now, i'll have to set up a more distributed approach, with a proper spam filter23:16
wpwrakalso, almesberger,net has suffered a disk failure just a few weeks ago and had to be set up from scratch, so things aren't entirely stable over there yet either23:17
wpwrakthe good thing that came with the disk failure was a bigger disk. so at least i now have some more room to experiment with things :)23:19
tuxbrainIn spain we have a said which "sui generis" translation should be : "In house of blacksmith, wood spoon" :P seems you case23:20
wpwraknow .. first step ... push all data i don't mean to keep online to dvds ... then a full image backup to an external disk ...23:20
tuxbrainwpwrak: well whatever "outsourcing" you may need you can count on tuxbrain's servers23:24
wpwraktuxbrain: the last few months have indeed been rough on my infrastructure. lost my main work disk, then the pc controlling my mill, then the disk in almesberger.net died (a server hosted in the US), then the upgrade from hell, now mail.openmoko.org, ...23:25
tuxbrainmmm it smell to sabotage!23:26
wpwrakah, two screens as well. at least these were easy to replace :)23:27
wpwraktuxbrain: (smt) did they indicate whether the data you sent them is enough for a quote ?23:52
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