#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2011-03-11

tuxbrainwpwrak: have you commited the avrdude.conf changes? do you know if xiangfu has regenerated the package with that changes?00:05
virictuxbrain: fas uns horaris... :)00:05
tuxbrainviric: horaris... si ..  24/700:07
tuxbrainwpwrak: mmm maybe the problem with the standalone chip is the lack of cristal...., how can I tell it to use the internal oscilartor?00:23
tuxbrainstandalone chip NN flashing00:24
virictuxbrain: do you remember anything about the nn suspending for a long time and crashing?00:24
tuxbrainyes, it crash00:24
viricis it a hardware problem?00:25
tuxbraindont't know but I can asure you than it crash :), I think larsc has a teory about that that yes implies hardware bug00:25
viricso I've to wait until larsc wakes up and reads this :)00:28
kristianpaulfreespace: (getimade) oh, i'm sorry to say but... those guys really know what _manufacturing_ really is about??01:42
kristianpaulI could not be adam or wolfgang, but that it cleat manufacuring is not behind a click and preordering..01:43
wolfspraulkristianpaul: url?01:45
kristianpaulwolfspraul: http://getitmade.com/01:45
kristianpaulfreespace: sorry !01:46
Action: kristianpaul wrong channel01:46
tuxbrainwolfspraul: is in spanish , tomorow I will translate and update the ardunote wiki page but sure you will enjoy the video http://www.tuxbrain.com/content/proyecto-ardunote-arduino-nanonote02:19
wolfspraulha ha02:21
wolfspraulthe cable forms a heart!02:21
wolfspraulyou show your romantic side, eh?02:21
kristianpaultuxbrain: (video) nice !02:22
wolfspraulwhere do you have the video original? I want to convert to ogv and upload into the wiki...02:22
kristianpaulI really enjoy see when it is flashing it :-)02:22
kristianpaulwow this will speed up sale for sure02:24
tuxbrainwolfspraul: already there http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:First_demo_ardunote.ogv02:25
kristianpaul(heart) just noticing it  ^_^02:25
tuxbrain(heart) subliminal techniques :P02:26
kristianpaulalso the extra silicone? ;-)02:26
wolfspraultuxbrain: how about the picture at the top of the blog? high-res original somewhere?02:26
tuxbraindo you want to I upload to wiki the pic?02:27
wolfspraulyou should be more selfish and add a Tuxbrain logo/name02:28
wolfspraulbut other than that of course, please upload. it's a good picture.02:28
tuxbraindone http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Nanonote_loves_arduino.jpg02:31
tuxbrainwolfspraul: (selfish) I'm the EU Nanonote distributor and UBB manufacturer .... They will end in Tuxbrain :P02:32
tuxbrainwell guys good n802:34
wolfspraulyes but you need to spread your brand02:34
wolfspraulthanks for uploading!02:34
wpwraktuxbrain_away: i committed the changes, yes. i even answered the mail :)05:41
wpwraktuxbrain_away: (xiangfo) dunno. probably not yet. the distro rebuilds take some time05:42
wpwraktuxbrain_away: (internal osc) that would be the lfuse setting05:42
kyakviric: is a hotkey daemon05:42
wpwraktuxbrain_away: (wiki page) speaking of PR, i think you haven't announced the UBB pix yet05:45
wpwrakkristianpaul: (getitmade) looks nice. lacks one step, namely the "productization", but the concept doesn't seem all bad05:50
xiangfuwpwrak: about the avrdude patches. by apply your patches I must using '-Np2'06:01
xiangfuwpwrak: when compile the avrdude. I want it download the 'series' then download all patches in 'series'06:01
xiangfuwpwrak: seems openwrt can not pass 'patch' parameter in package makefile. :(06:03
xiangfuwpwrak: your patches have two folders "avrdude.orig/avrdude-5.10/avrpart.h"06:03
xiangfutuxbrain_away: I am still fight with the openwrt patch system06:07
tuxbrain_awayxiangfu: can you at least regenerate the http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/packages/avrdude_5.10-1_xburst.ipk? that will at least solve for early adopters, once on on repo I will update intrucctions, as equal as when avr-toolchain reach repos too..06:10
xiangfutuxbrain: ok. working on re-generate now.06:12
tuxbrainthanks a lot!06:12
Action: tuxbrain translating post to english06:12
kyakxiangfu: use something like PATCH:=patch -Np2 in your Makefile06:16
xiangfukyak: tried that. not working. http://pastebin.com/4ffz19n706:19
kyaktrying to open http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-blinkenlights/source/file/master/avrdude/patches/06:23
kyakit redirects to http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-blinkenlights/source/tree/master/06:23
kyakok, maybe it's just browser..06:24
kyakyep, it should work fine06:26
kyaktheoretically :)06:26
xiangfukyak: no patches dir in avrdude. I am using a qi_lb60-patches.06:28
xiangfukyak: oh. the patches have moved.06:29
xiangfutuxbrain: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/packages/avrdude_5.10-2_xburst.ipk06:35
xiangfutuxbrain: update the release to "2".06:35
xiangfusorry for late.06:35
kyakxiangfu: btw, it's not a good idea to put downloaded patches in PATCH_DIR.. First of all, these new files will appear in git status, and then it will trigger compilation every time you run make, because the timestamp of dir will be updated06:37
tuxbrainxianfu, updated , not late just in time :) thanks a lot (again)06:41
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [avrdude] auto-download patches by werner, not re-generate them again http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/9532a3506:48
xiangfukyak: oh. yes. manually apply those patch is easier then using openwrt patch system :)06:48
xiangfukyak: thanks.06:49
tuxbrainwpwrak: ubb pix announcement, oh! true :) , I will along today.06:51
xiangfutuxbrain: there is a 'g' between 'n' and 'f' :)06:51
kyakxiangfu: np, i think that the best way would be to use quilt.mk for that06:54
tuxbrainpost in english http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/ardunote-project-arduino-nanonote07:08
kyakxiangfu: btw, full build here (with CONFIG_ALL) took 6 hours :)07:21
xiangfukyak: that's fast.07:21
xiangfuwhat is your hardware configure?07:21
kyakPentium(R) Dual-Core  CPU      E6500  @ 2.93GHz07:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: add nanonote-base/data/-files to config_full http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b3fb1dc08:00
tuxbrainwritting idea to have logged somewhere: NanoNote with usb-mass-storage option can be used as AVR flash loader copying the hex file to a determinated folder09:55
tuxbrainI have chose usb-mass-storage due then it can be also used on windows09:57
tuxbrainsee you later guys09:57
tuxbrain/nick tuxbrain_away09:57
zearhey guys11:00
kyakhi zear11:00
zeari haven't been following the nn scene for a longer time, and now finally checked the mailinglist (just to see 700 new threads :D)11:00
zearbut what interested me the most among the mails is the UBB11:00
zeari cna't seem to find an info about it's price, so does anybody here know how much does it cost?11:01
kyakyou can check it on tuxbrain's site11:02
zearhave problems accessing his webpage with midori browser11:04
zearit keeps loading over and over again, resulting in constant blinking of the page content11:04
kyakyou have two choices: choose another site ot another browser :)11:05
zearyeah, firefox loaded it fine11:05
kyakbtw, since you've been out of the loop for some time, you might want to check the latest image, too :)11:10
tuxbrainhi zear :)11:18
zearhey tuxbrain ;)11:18
zeari might be interested in the UBB11:18
zearnot like i'd have any use of that (i can't solder), but it's simply very interesting11:19
tuxbrainhow many? :P11:19
zeari'd probably say 2, so i could technically pair two devices with 8:10 slot in a sort of a link cable11:19
tuxbrainwhy you can't solder? If I can anyone can , believe me11:20
zeari have never done that, i simply know nothing about hardware soldering11:20
tuxbrainok I will try to accelerate the editing on the howto I made the cable11:20
zearbut the idea of a "bare" 8:10 pcb you can do anything with is really great11:20
tuxbrainis very very easy11:20
zeartuxbrain, so i understand you could wire two UBBs together to form a link cable?11:21
zearso when you put each of them to separate nanonotes, the nns would be able to talk to each other? (at least if software is made for it)11:22
tuxbraineven more easy if you pretend to solder two ubbs, if you wish I can made it for you , just especify in the coments of the order to remaind me to do so11:22
zearah, ok11:22
tuxbrainone should be the SPI master and the other SPI slave, but yes in theory is totally posible unless wpwrak says the contrary,11:23
zearwell, i haven't decided yet if i want to order UBBs, but it really sounds very very cool11:23
zearand i probably will :)11:23
zeartuxbrain, and i understand UBB can work in any device with 8:10 port?11:24
zearlike let's say a Dingoo A320? :)11:24
tuxbrainmeanwhile you were able to deatach the mmc module from the gpios and access the gpios... yes11:25
zearhmm.. so i have to make some changes to the 8:10 socket in order for UBB to work?11:25
tuxbrainI don't think so, is matter of software11:26
zearok, great, because i didn't understand what you said about detaching  the mmc module from gpios11:27
tuxbrainkernel module11:27
zearok, so basically connecting two UBBs together will work as a link cable11:28
zearthis might be a very good news for Dingoo A320 owners11:28
tuxbrainecho jz4740-mmc.0 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc/unbind11:28
zearbecause previously we had no way to connect two dingoos for multiplayer games, other than via usb networking and PC host in the middle11:28
tuxbrainthis is what make the trick on NN11:28
zearand UBB is cheap enough that this could be worth buying11:29
zearwe'd just have to get linux run off NAND and not the SD card like it does currently ;D11:29
tuxbrainyep :)11:29
zeartuxbrain, so what would be the costs of ordering two UBBs already soldered together with a cable?11:30
zeari'd need an approx. price, so i can discuss about it in the dingoo scene11:30
tuxbrainfor you same as 2 usb,  for others if I had to solder them add 15¬ for the manipulation, but really is very easy to solder them11:31
zearok, so ~25EUR11:32
zear+ shipment11:33
wpwrakzear: you really ought to learn how to solder :) a lot of people think it's difficult, but it isn't. just needs a little practice.11:34
tuxbrainof course if there is enough demand >100 I can try to industrialize the process an prices can go down,11:34
zearwpwrak, well, it's not about soldering itself, it's about understanding electronics11:35
tuxbrain? in UBB there is no electronics :)11:35
wpwrakzear: that takes a bit more time :)11:35
wpwraktuxbrain: hah, and i thought you were just selling a transmission line ;-)11:35
zeartuxbrain, i know, but i'm talking about soldering stuff in general11:35
zearalthough i guess that wrongly soldering two cables could toast the UBB and NN :D11:36
wpwraktuxbrain: (spi) yes, you could do that. just have to make sure the ben-slave is fast enough to keep up. it's a bit like the soft-uart problem11:36
wpwraktuxbrain: in general, ben sucks as a slave. it's meant to be a master :)11:36
tuxbrainborn to rule!11:37
wpwraktuxbrain: you could of course devise a timing-tolerant protocol that acknowledges each clock change. maybe send > 1 bit at a time, while you're at it11:37
zearwpwrak, it if's meant to be a master, why doesn't it have a usb host? ;D11:37
wpwrakzear: ben seems to be pretty solid when it comes to doing bad things to it11:38
wpwrakzear: oh, it does have a usb host. that host is only a little shy ;-)11:38
tuxbrainyeah if he don't like what you put it is port it just get angry and shutsdown.... Ben NanoNote is a female! (omg)11:39
tuxbrainthen he->she11:40
wpwrakzear: the problem with high-speed communication over ubb is that you have to bit-bang. so things can be quite slow. and if you have to respond to anything, then you need to keep the timing compatible, which can mean low frequency and/or cpu-intensive polling11:40
kyaki've just ordered the second Ben. I think i'm about to host a gay party11:41
wpwrakzear: but if it's for things like occasional small synchronization messages, that could work quite wll11:41
zearwpwrak, ouch, i was thinking more of stable multiplayer connection for games11:41
wpwrakzear: games may not need to exchange a lot of data11:41
wpwrakzear: but you'll have to experiment. think of a suitable protocol, etc.11:42
zearwell, i was thinking of regular TCP/IP without any modification to the existing code of the games11:42
wpwraktuxbrain: (timing-free protocol) e.g, MCLK/SCLK: master can only change its clock when the MCLK == SCLK. so the slave has to ack each clock change. that way, if the slave is slow, the master will not overrun it.11:43
wpwrakzear: tcp/ip doesn't add a lot of overhead. you'll have to see if this is good enough or not11:44
wpwrakzear: in any case, you'll need to write something that transports IP over your cable11:44
zearso basically, it i wanted higher transfer, it would be more cpu intensive?11:45
wpwrakzear: yes. there's no SPI/UART/etc. hardware to help you11:46
tuxbrainwpwrak: what transfer ratio you stimate with that mclk==sclk technique11:47
wpwrakzear: what you have is the MMC/SD/SDIO hw engine, but that one works only on one end (master only)11:47
wpwraktuxbrain: hmm. depends a bit on how much cpu time you want to burn. if you have an interrupt to catch an async start and then busy loop in the data phase, it could be reasonably fast. maybe 0.5-1 Mcycles/s11:48
wpwraktuxbrain: but hey, you have all the UBBs in the world and you have cables. you can just make one and try it ;-)11:49
tuxbrainI'm only lacking knowlege and time :)11:49
wpwraktuxbrain: can't help with the time. but that's how you build knowledge :)11:51
tuxbrainwpwrak: ben as master, mmmm, then comm with arduino on the run would be more dificult as expected... all example codes I found the Arduino considers it self master too..11:53
wpwraktuxbrain: you may have to be a bit creative :) to use the avr as slave, you need access to its nSS line11:55
tuxbrainso I have to find a way to make the atmega328 behave as SPI slave, when not in flashing mode... yuhuu!  more sleepless ours of fun reading strange lenguage called C11:55
tuxbrainours -> hours11:55
tuxbrainWTF is nSS line and where is it?.... bwaaaaaa ,sniff sniff the joy and proud of the last achivement to the toilet in front of again of a mindles junk of acronyms11:59
tuxbrainas wolfspraul say , focus!,11:59
tuxbrainfirst solving the only chip avrdude problem12:00
tuxbrainthen SPI comm12:00
tuxbrainwell better said first annoy the Arduino community to aknoledge them than the IT powder box can now also flash his beloved board12:02
wpwraktuxbrain: (nss) slave select. unfortunately, the avr spi engine requires that signal to be controlled by the master12:02
wpwrak(for synchronization)12:02
tuxbrainwpwrak: I will understand what you have said in a couple of weeks :P12:05
kyaktuxbrain: most of the time i talk to wpwrak i have the same feeling :) He must be a man from the future!12:06
kyakok, one more join and jekhor is a champion :)12:11
kyakjekhor: congratulations! :)12:11
Jay7my ISP is helping me to move up12:12
kyakJay7: your internet is 9th worst, too ;)12:12
Jay7kyak: yeah :)12:12
panda|x201shout, shout, let it all out12:13
tuxbrainwpwrak: (flashing with bootloader) I saw that Arduino bootloaders comes with the blink led as default when you flashit, the trick to include bootloader on flashing will not be to compile the bootloader with the intenden program also in and generate a unic hex file with both?12:14
wpwraktuxbrain: you could do this, yes12:17
wpwraktuxbrain: avr/boot.h even has a bootloader linker section. unfortunately, avrdude can't merge things nicely, so you have to prepare it all in the hex file12:18
wpwraktuxbrain: when flashing a bootloader, "normal" avrdude will also flash all the kilobytes of 0xff bytes below.12:18
wpwraktuxbrain: but if you have my latest version, it just jumps over that :)12:19
tuxbrainok see you later guys12:21
wpwraktuxbrain_away: (avrdude) do you really need -C /etc/avrdude.conf ? that should be the default13:48
wpwraktuxbrain_away: also, the -F is a bit scary. if you have any connection problem, you'll get an ID mismatch. with -F, it probably tries to go ahead anyway.13:49
wpwrakseems that the internet in minsk is a bit on the crappy side :)13:50
jekhorWe hate our network administrator already :)13:53
kyakthat is, Lukhashenko? :)13:53
jow_laptopdon't think the old man has any clue about internet13:54
kyakjow_laptop: the Internet is government monopoly13:56
jow_laptopkyak: I know13:56
kyakso he knows exactly what is Internet, how it can be used, and how it must be controlled13:56
tuxbrain_awaywpwrak: removed -F option, the -C will not hurt so I will maintain it.15:03
rohwpwrak: hrhr.. seems like sean finally got a step further http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/876441/15:26
wpwrakroh: wow ! :)15:29
wpwraktuxbrain_away: (-C) the fewer flags, the better ;-)15:31
viricCould someone running the openwrt post his /proc/meminfo somewhere?15:41
viricroh: is it eink?15:42
rohnah. b/w lcm afaik15:45
viricI tried if it crashes when suspending a long time15:46
viricand I simply found the nanonote powered off15:46
kyakviric: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware-Ben#System_information17:05
virickyak: meminfo is not there :)17:37
kyakhm :)17:38
kyakviric: http://dpaste.com/490167/18:01
viricthat is an openwrt?18:02
viricyour SUnreclaim:         2024 kB18:02
viricis bigger than mine...18:02
viricAh, you have the SD mounted I think. It may be that18:02
wpwraktuxbrain_away: do you still need files from me for your atben/atusb fab quote or have you already generated them yourself ?19:09
Action: kristianpaul remenber was asked for drill files too19:10
wpwrakkristianpaul: pcbnew --drill :)19:20
kristianpaulwpwrak: oh really? but do i need recompile it from upstream?19:20
kristianpaulor who's repo?19:20
wpwrakkristianpaul: you need to compile with wolfgang's patches19:20
kristianpaulah, i remenber19:21
Action: kristianpaul messing with computer buses19:22
kristianpaulwpwrak: how i can know if a device have uboot20:38
kristianpauli mean i dont have schmatics20:38
kristianpaulmay be serial by serial port?20:38
kristianpaulor something in memory that i can check. but how..20:38
wpwrakkristianpaul: err, what kind of device do you mean ? if it has a serial console, you may be able to see a message from u-boot there20:40
wpwrakkristianpaul: if you can dump the memory, you could also search it20:40
kristianpaulyeah i was thinking that20:40
kristianpaulis a ebook20:40
kristianpaulnot mine20:41
kristianpauli just was asked20:41
kristianpaulyeah i already tell about the serial port and find the way for memory dump20:41
wpwrakkristianpaul: if there is a firmware upgrade, you could also download it and look if there are recognizable strings inside20:42
kristianpauloh, i missed that one, thanks !20:42
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