#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2011-03-10

rjeffries_tuxbrain tuxbrain_away re WPAN shield for arduino: there are a few 802.15.4 boards already. e.g. Zigbee protocol uses same radio as 6LoWPAN so may not need to develop hardware05:39
wpwrakJay7: i think that's the kind of test that probes certain cosmological constants :)06:00
wpwraktuxbrain: so you're considering to fab the wpan stuff ?06:06
wolfspraulwpwrak: we are thinking how to speed up, and maybe with David's new UBB production experience I can outsource to David :-)06:08
wolfsprauljust thinking right now06:08
wpwrakoh, i very much like the concept :)06:09
wolfspraulAdam is squeezed hard to make a great milkymist rc3 run06:09
wpwraklocation independence is one of the great things open hardware should give us06:09
wolfspraulI only have 2 Milkymist One left06:09
wolfspraulso if another two daring pioneers come along, I'm out of stock06:09
wpwrakin fact, i hate it each time when someone says "wolfgang/sharism should do this or that"06:10
wpwrak(mm1) nice :)06:10
wolfspraulI think most people get the copyleft hardware concepts...06:10
wolfspraulit's not that hard, one just has to think about copyleft a little :-)06:10
wpwrakhow many bens do we have to get rid of ?06:10
wpwrak(adam) would be good if he could at least check if there are any obvious production issues. also, if tuxbrain produces them, he'll need a way to flash the firmware06:11
wpwrakthe dfu boot loader isn't ready yet. the only approach for flashing anything so far is via the atusb-ben cable06:12
wpwrakalso, in the future, fab flashing will need that cable06:12
wpwrakif you want to outsource it to tuxbrain, would adam send his devices to spain ?06:13
wpwrakminimum requirement for production is the atusb-ben cables (well, one that works. two to be sure there's at least one)06:14
wpwrakproduction testing can also be bootstrapped from a production run, particularly if out aim is "prototype quality"06:15
wolfspraulof course Adam can send anything to Spain, I need to send a few things anyway06:15
wolfspraulthat's no problem at all06:15
wolfsprauljust consider the two tightly linked :-)06:16
wpwrakwhich two ?06:17
wolfspraulTuxbrain and Adam06:22
kyakviric: (memory usage) could be intersting, is it something different from ps aux?06:22
wpwraktuxbrain: what i don't know yet is the kicad-to-smt process. adam should have that (from the mm1 jtag)06:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: ah, okay :)06:22
wolfspraulyes and he was writing some wiki pages about it, although they are wip06:23
kyakxiangfu: could we please rebase again, there was a compilation fix backported? :)06:23
wpwrakvery good :)06:23
wpwraktuxbrain's kicad-to-pcb was extremely painless. that's good. they politely ignored a few constraints but that didn't cause any real troubles.06:24
xiangfukyak: yes. sure.06:33
rjeffries_David's experience with fisrt run of pcbs for UBB was fine. does he also have a goor vendor for assembly?06:33
tuxbrainwpwrak: what constrains?06:34
tuxbrainwpwrak wolfspraul: (at* prodution) well at least let's chek if is economically feasible, pcb part seems quite good quality/price ratio, now is time to see if smt is also that good, as you know I have NFI on such procces and what I can learn reading maybe is totally different from what the manufacturer expects :P06:34
tuxbrainrjeffries: yes I have a pair of vendors to ask with good reputation on quality, now let's check price :)06:35
Action: rjeffries_ nods06:35
wpwraktuxbrain: the constraints on there to put the tabs (the stuff you had to remove). also, i don't know if they checked with you than tin/hasl is okay instead of enig finish06:40
wpwraktuxbrain: for me, that's the kind of things to remember for occasions when it actually matters. with ubb, it wasn't an issue. if you were making 100kunits, for example the cleanup it would be.06:42
kyakxiangfu: btw. I tried to follow your instructions in wiki for rebasing, they don't quite work. I made some minor corrections. I followed the steps, but wasn't brave enought to push -f :)06:46
kyakxiangfu: there were no confilicts btw, i guess due to the fact that they have been alreadu resolved by previous rebases?06:47
xiangfuyes. when some confilicts resolved . will not come up again.06:48
rjeffries_wpwrak i was wondering about that issue. with the pcd house that quoted UBB for me, we made quite a big deal re: requirement to carefully machine or laser cut UBB06:48
kyakxiangfu:  maybe we could also do rebasing automatically in case there are no conflicts? i.e. daily?06:49
rjeffries_wpwrak I read your c.v. Mr DiffServ06:49
kyakand if there are conflicts, no rebasing06:49
xiangfukyak: hmm...06:50
xiangfurebase daily, scare me a little. I am not sure about this. I also worry about  broken the git history. lose some commits06:54
kyakxiangfu: ok, i don't insist. Maybe it's best done as manual job, i agree06:56
xiangfukyak: maybe we should keep the 'data' folder to another repo.06:56
xiangfumost of the commit is about 'data' folder.06:57
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: disable CONFIG_ALL, add Tile and gottet http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/4202dc507:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: add supertux, terminus-font http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e5d5c4407:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: build gcc-mips, make, binutils as modules. Remove http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/256176407:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: remove "=m" packages http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/72266f207:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: don't include ghostscript and fbgs into rootfs, build as modules http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/98e204607:00
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: config.full_system: fix name of gnuplot package (was renamed a long time ago) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/86be5ac07:00
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add zgv, MPlayer, brainless http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d1b141a07:00
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: remove custum banner, focus on 100% upstream, http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cfa528f07:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: add setterm http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/fe70e9c07:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: include GNU tar http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a82111107:00
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: [package] ks7010: Remove debug printks http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/da9332b07:00
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: [xburst] jz_mmc: Drop warning about spares irqs. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/669ebc707:00
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: [xburst] Improve mounttime. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/03298f107:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: have sound modules built in kernel http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b7e305d07:00
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: reflash_ben.sh, new option b k r, reboot device after reflash http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b0b471f07:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: add sound options to default config, so that it won't popup http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/9c1f8ec07:00
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system: add openssh-sftp-server http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/53228b507:00
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update opkg.conf, don't using /tmp keep packages information http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/514482607:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: busybox enhancements http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7b32b8b07:00
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: more busybox options http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b4dc88407:00
wpwrakcommit war ;-)07:01
xiangfukyak: just update the wiki page: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Git#rebaseing_output07:04
xiangfukyak: if your rebaseing output is >=154 commits like the wiki page. then everything is fine. we don't lose anything :)07:05
xiangfuwpwrak: is there a way to connect ben nanonote and milkymist by using UBB ?07:07
xiangfucan we emulate the UART protocol by software though UBB?07:08
tuxbrainxiangfu: quick answer nop07:08
tuxbrainwpwrak: will give you a more elaborated answer :P07:09
xiangfuI connect ben nanonote and milkymist  through ben nanonote serial console. then nanonote became very un-stable. very easy reboot.07:09
wpwrakxiangfu: i don't know of any easy way of connecting then via ubb. however, mm1 has usb host and ben is usb device, so ... :)07:09
wpwrakxiangfu: console problems are a bit surprising07:10
xiangfuwpwrak: yes. that is one of idea. kristianpaul and me also talk about other method :) like UART, UBB :)07:10
xiangfuwpwrak: and 'minicom' 'picocom' totally not working. those program can send out data. but can not receive anything.07:11
xiangfuwpwrak: I have to using those commands: "stty -F /dev/ttyS0 raw 115200; while : ; do cat /dev/ttyS0 ; done &  cat > /dev/ttyS0"07:12
xiangfumake is work for awhile.  if I press 5 times 'enter' the nanonote will reboot.(kernel panic)07:12
xiangfuwpwrak:  tuxbrain  by the way. I found this : > I found this http://git.korsgaard.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=hid-gadget;a=summary07:14
wpwrakhm, very strange. in general, minicom ought to work (if you turn off hardware flow control and all that)07:14
xiangfuPC --- nanonote works fine07:15
wpwrakif you have a scope, it would be useful to look at the signals07:15
xiangfuPC ---- milkymist works fine07:15
xiangfunanonteo --- milkymist . there are some problem.07:15
xiangfuwpwrak: oh, yes. don't have that. also don't know how to use that. :( sorry07:16
xiangfuand not easy to borrow that for me.07:16
wpwrakxiangfu: if you say "then nanonote became very un-stable. very easy reboot.", what does that mean ?07:22
wpwrakxiangfu: (scope) oh, you really ought to get one. rigol makes nice scopes. and they're not very expensive.07:23
xiangfuwpwrak: 1. run "stty -F /dev/ttyS0 raw 115200; while : ; do cat /dev/ttyS0 ; done &  cat > /dev/ttyS0"07:23
xiangfuthen if I input slowly. everything works fine.07:23
xiangfuif I press 'enter' five times and a little faster. the nanonote have kernel panic. then reboot07:24
xiangfuwpwrak: (rigol) search the price now :)07:24
wpwrak(kernel panic) do you know where it panics ?07:25
wpwrak(rigol) xxxxC. xxxxCD. xxxxE, and xxxxD are good07:26
wpwrak(rigol) xxxxCA and xxxxB are less fun ;)07:27
wpwrak(rigol) xxxxC/CD/D/E have a lot of memory07:27
wpwrakoh, and with xxxx i really mean 1xxx. there's also a 6xxx (?) series. they're top-end and expensive. they may be very good, but i don't have any real-life information about them.07:28
kyakxiangfu: thanks :) and yeah, it's a good idea to move data/ somewhere...07:31
xiangfuwpwrak: (kernel panic) not record that, I will try to catch the message next time.07:38
kyakxiangfu: hm, i noticed there are problems building plplot on buildhost.. Strange, it built fine for me07:39
xiangfukyak: oh. have you try this patch: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/openwrt-xburst.patches/fix-plplot-not-compile-in-buildhost.patch07:40
xiangfukyak: it's just re-export the PERL module again.07:40
xiangfubefore compile plplot07:41
kyakxiangfu: i don't need it, builds fine here :) i'm just following your last100 buildlog07:43
xiangfukyak: I am not apply this "fix-plplot-not-compile-in-buildhost.patch" in daily build.07:44
kyakah, ok!07:44
kyakanyway, except for this plplot issues config.full_system must build fine now07:45
xiangfuwpwrak: how much is 1xxxC/CD/D/E in your local. the "DS1052E" in China is ~2000RMB, ~300USD.07:46
xiangfukyak: ok. enable the patch now :)07:46
xiangfuhttp://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-03102011-0848/ start manually.07:52
xiangfukyak: (data folder). what do you think. create a individual repo or add it to openwrt-package.git?07:53
kyakxiangfu: individual repo sounds better, because openwrt-packages will only show up under the "feeds/"?07:57
kyakxiangfu: but i'm not sure how we can have files from two git repos in one working directory?07:58
xiangfukyak: (show up in feeds/) we need create symlins anyway. ln -s data/qi_lb60/files or ln -s feeds/qipackage/nanonte-openwrt-files/data/file08:13
xiangfucp data/qi_lb60/config.full_system or cp feeds/qipakcages/nanonte-openwrt-files/data/qi_lb60/config.full_system08:13
xiangfuthat mean . 1. needs run make package/symlinks 2. setup the symlinks to files/  3. copy the config.full_system 4 run make pakcage/symlinks again.08:14
xiangfuthe individual repo: for me it needs git clone twice. 1. openwrt-xburst.git 2. nanonote-openwrt-files.git08:15
xiangfuthe openwrt-package.git repo: it just not a package.08:16
wolfspraulxiangfu: keep data/ in a separate repo sounds right to me08:24
xiangfuwolfspraul: kyak  ok. I will create a new repo. name: openwrt-nanonote-data.08:30
kyakxiangfu: how it will work with individual repo/08:37
xiangfukyak: manually . git clone twice.  run 'ln -s ' manually08:38
kyaki mean, we will git clone in openwrt-xburst/openwrt-nanonote-data and then ln -s openwrt-nanonote-data data?08:38
kyakso it means cloning three times08:39
kyakcounting the openwrt-packages08:39
kyakcan we setup git to clone remote automatically08:39
kyakso we only have to update openwrt-xburst git, and then it wil update openwrt-nanonote-data git automatically?08:40
xiangfu(write a script file :)08:41
xiangfuthe 'git update'' can be 'git pull' 'git fetch' ...08:42
xiangfuI dont' know how to hook git update08:42
kyakmaybe the idea to put data/ in openwrt-pacakges is not so bad after all08:42
kyakthen we only hve to install one symlink08:43
xiangfuI even found we can create a 'Makefile' under data/08:43
xiangfulike :08:43
kyakhe, that's a great idea :P_08:43
xiangfucd ../../../; ln -s  feeds/qipackage/data/qi_lb60/files)08:43
xiangfuwolfspraul: kyak I think put it to openwrt-packages.git is better for me. (not makefile, just mv the data/ to openwrt-package.git/nanonote-files/)09:23
xiangfu1. files/* : those are files that overwrite the openwrt default files.09:24
kyaki would agree, since there is no good way to handle another git repo from within the git repo09:24
xiangfuwe can create a package for 'data/' then we can using 'opkg' update those overwrite files09:25
xiangfu2. keeps config.* and build reflash_ben.sh scripts file in nanonote is not a bad idea09:26
xMfffor reflashing the nanonote itself?09:26
xiangfuxMff: no. this reflash_ben.sh is running in host . since there is no usb-host in nanonte. we can not run 'usbboot' inside nanonote.09:27
xiangfuxMff: ( is there is a usb-host. we can using one nanonote flash another nanonote. :P )09:28
xMffxiangfu: I just wondered about "keep reflash_ben.sh in nanonote"09:28
xMfferm keep -> build09:28
xiangfuthere are some files under data folder.09:29
xiangfu'build' and 'reflash_ben.sh'09:30
Jay7why not reflash u-boot/kernel from NN? :)09:31
Jay7it should be possible by nandwrite/mtdwrite09:31
xiangfuJay7: there is one command 'mtd.nn' can flash kernel and rootfs but not u-boot09:31
Jay7is u-boot stored somewhere out of NAND?09:31
kyakxiangfu: have you checked if kernel/rootfs flashing is faster or slower from Ben or from PC?09:32
xiangfuJay7: no. when JZ4720 boot. it load first 8KB of nand. but it assume that the nand is 2KB. so when we flash the u-boot we have to write 2KBdata-2KBecc. PAD to 4KB; ...09:34
xiangfuxMff: sorry for confuse09:35
xiangfuJay7: do you know is there is  a software can calculate the ECC just like soc does?09:37
xiangfukyak: reflash rootfs is much faster09:39
Jay7xiangfu: hm.. no.. can you ask Ingenic? :)09:42
Jay7but u-boot updating is relatively rare operation09:42
xiangfukyak: ok. let's move the data to openwrt-package.git09:49
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: move data/ folder from openwrt-xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b36c84b10:09
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: nanonote-data-files http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/47618a210:09
xiangfuwolfspraul: ^ I decide move data/ to openwrt-package.git and create a package for those overwrite-files10:10
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: move those files to openwrt-package.git http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3b6e32510:11
wolfspraulsure, sounds good. I didn't think about the details, if it's not easy in daily use, we change again.10:12
kristianpaulJay7: (u-boot updating is relatively rare operation) we're rare people, or i think relflash script for the ben do that some often :-)11:08
kristianpaulwpwrak: (nn + mm1 = nn crash) may be speed?11:13
wpwrakah. that was a nice restful 5h sleep :)11:46
wpwrakkristianpaul: (crash) no idea what it is. sounds very strange to me. maybe otpower.11:48
wpwraks/ot/it's not the communication itself but the content of the communication, or/11:48
wpwrakJay7: (can't flash u-boot) sounds all like a sw problem :)11:49
wpwrakwolfspraul: ah, how's --exclude-board-edges coming along ? ;-)12:10
wpwrak(just found the reminder in ubb's makefile ... :)12:10
virickyak: of course it is differente from ps aux :D12:16
viriclarsc: do you know, why the 2.6.36 in my nanonote does not have /proc/PID/smaps ?12:20
viriclarsc: I've a mips malta running, and it has it.12:21
wolfspraulwpwrak: no coding yet, but thanks for the reminder, I just have to do it :-)12:22
wolfspraulI have a nasty payment gateway deadline to work against, otherwise they will cancel the account etc. etc.12:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: killing the color changing bug in eeschema would also be nice :)12:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: with --exclude-board-edges, i could generate fab files at least for making pcbs with just a "make" run12:23
viricdoes the kernel.org 2.6.37 have all for a nanonote already?12:26
wpwrakwolfspraul: ... which would bring us one step closer to disproving sean's "you can't \"make\" hardware" :-)12:30
kyakviric: well, throw it at me then, i'm willing to run it for comparison :)12:42
virickyak: http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/cgi-bin/memstat13:16
virickyak: I've just built a kernel for the nanonote with the proper options13:16
kyakviric: yeah, the # CONFIG_PROC_PAGE_MONITOR is not set13:18
kyaki will have a look at memstat later13:18
kyakviric: does CONFIG_PROC_PAGE_MONITOR add any overhead?13:18
kyakto the running kernel13:18
virickyak: in the linux world, unfortunately, is very hard to tell13:20
kyakheh, ok13:23
virickyak: did you try memstat on a more powerful linux than the nanonote?13:43
kyakviric: hm nope, should i? I thought we wanted to compare glibc/uclibc?13:44
virickyak: well, that's one thing13:45
viricbut I wrote it also to help me in the PC :)13:45
kyakviric: hm, where do i download the source?13:46
kyakthe web interface doesn't look trivial :)13:46
viriclogin anonymously13:46
viriclast trunk revision -> zip archive13:47
viricI should put some link...13:47
viriclink written13:49
kyakok, it's running13:49
kyaknow i need to read to know the meaning of columns :)13:50
kyak95008   73866   218212  114084  89203   12700   TOTAL13:51
kyakrunning the openwrt build at the moment..13:52
viric'-h' tells you more13:53
viricSome totals (sums of the columns) are not helpful, like the sum of RSS13:53
viricbut they are there. Maybe I should take them away.13:53
kyakheh, do you think "Sum of virtual size of anonymous pages" is any more helpful? :) I have to google every word13:54
kyakthe comparison between processes is interesting13:54
kyaksomehow ircd process is "lighter" than eggdrop13:55
kristianpaulwpwrak: about content i think the is a small issues about a missing \n but i dont see what it should reboot the ben13:57
kristianpaulI'll take a look tomorrow that i'm at home with the scope :-)13:57
virickristianpaul: you have to go *home* for a oscilloscope?13:58
viricwhat a world... Most people I know has to go *to the office* for an oscilloscope :)13:58
kristianpaulviric: yeap, at work/office there is _nothing_, well there a soldering station  wich i'm not allowed to use and a multimtere somwhere ;-)13:59
wpwrakkristianpaul: is that ben-mm1 conflict xiangfu reported also something you're experiencing ?14:04
kristianpaulwpwrak: not that i can remenber14:04
wpwrakkristianpaul: okay, let's see what xiangfu finds. it's a weird one for sure14:11
LunohoDdo you participate in GSoC?14:12
LunohoDthe nanonote community14:17
kristianpaulwell.. you should back that question to all the software projects around it14:21
kristianpaulopenwrt, linux, oe....14:21
viricwho is here working in the mylkimist?14:24
kristianpaulworking how?14:24
viricwho writes the verilog for the spartan6 there?14:25
wolfspraulviric: the core milkymist soc channel on freenode is #milkymist14:25
wolfspraulof course you are welcome to ask milkymist related questions here as well, since we (as copyleft hardware manufacturers) manufacture this thing14:25
viricI thought someone was here too.14:25
wolfspraulyes, there is a big overlap14:26
kristianpauli'm also larsc14:26
wolfspraulbut qi-hardware is a copyleft hardware project14:26
virickristianpaul: you are larsc?14:26
wolfspraulwherease milkymist is an SoC IC design project14:26
kristianpaulalso tuxbrain14:26
wolfspraulmilkymist one is a vj station built around the milkymist soc running in an fpga14:26
viricI know I know14:26
wolfspraulso it's all connected together :-)14:26
kristianpaulviric: i'm not larsc14:26
viricdon't they plan to have a general purpose CPU in there too?14:27
kristianpaulsorry i mean, larsc and me are also in the #milkymist14:27
viricthat could run linux, I mean14:27
kristianpaulthat can be an addon14:27
wolfspraulyou can already boot Linux on Milkymist One14:27
kristianpaulno need to change cpu14:27
viricwolfspraul: but that's an ingenic processor running it14:27
viricah no?14:28
wolfspraulMilkymist is an SoC, it uses a free LatticeMico32 core for 'general purpose' instructions14:28
viricaaaah ok14:28
kristianpaulnavre core for USB stack14:29
kristianpauland more of free space on fpga for your own stuff if needed ;-)14:29
wolfspraulthere is a Linux port for LM32 (Milkymist) already https://github.com/tmatsuya/linux-2.6/commits/master14:29
wolfspraulthough not all (by far not) peripherals of the milkymist one are supported in Linux right now14:29
wolfspraulalso the Milkymist SoC has no MMU right now, which is probably a good thing to have on a Linux system14:29
wolfspraulbut Linux boots14:29
viricwolfspraul: I've never used a linux without mmu14:32
viric cat ~/uImage > mtdblock114:32
viricIs this a good idea?14:32
viricI hope so... let's see.14:32
viricERROR: can't get kernel image!14:32
kristianpaulviric: you can use rtems too14:33
viricusbboot, I've to use :)14:34
kristianpauli'm confused are you talking about the nanonote or milkymist one?14:35
viricnow the nanonote14:35
kristianpaulit seems :-)14:35
viricflashing with usbboot, it works.14:37
viricWhy "cat uImage > /dev/mtdblock1" does not work?14:37
virickyak: I just got memstat running in the nanonote finally (with the proper kernel)14:37
viricfor what I see... it looks as if, of 13MB used, only 4800KB are from user mode processes.14:39
kyakso.. 8 Mb is kenrel?14:39
viricI've always found hard to understand, where the MB go14:40
viricThe kernel is taking at least 2MB (Slab+KernelStack)14:41
viric'free' is not counting the 'Cached' shown at /proc/meminfo... weird.14:41
viricAh, busybox 'free' only takes into account Buffers, not 'Cached'14:41
viricso we have 3.4MB Cached...14:41
viricIt's getting close to the 8MB..14:42
virickyak: the total of PSS should give you the total amount of RAM used by processes14:45
virickyak: uhm counting that 'memstat' is counted twice :)14:45
kyaktwice, huh?14:46
viricwell, it's as PID 'self' and as the PID number14:46
viricI'll fix it14:46
kyakheh :)14:47
kyakviric: so again, PSS is memory occupied by running processes, who uses the rest of the memory?14:48
virickyak: there is the kernel code, the kernel slabs (similar to its 'heap', if I understand correctly), the filesystem cache, kernel buffers, kernel stack, ...14:49
viricI'm not an expert.. I'm just on the way to understand.14:50
kyakok, so the reset is "the kernel"14:50
kyak*th rest14:50
viricwhat are your numbers?14:53
viric(I fixed the memstat meanwhile)14:53
tuxbrainnever a video of a bliniking led has been so elaborated15:41
tuxbrainI have just finished the edition of the first ArduNote video... now is rendering and I hope this night can upload and publish the Howto post....15:41
viricDoes anybody know why copying an uImage to "/dev/mtdblock1" fails to write a good kernel?16:55
viricthe same uImage written with usbboot works fine16:55
viricI can't say I understand the flash devices much16:56
wpwrakviric: what program did you use to write ?17:02
wpwrakviric: and did you erase the area first ?17:02
viricwpwrak: cat uImage > /dev/mtdblock117:23
virickyak: could you run memstat in the nanonote?17:24
kyakviric: i'm on it17:26
kyakrecompiling the kernel17:26
viricah grat!17:27
kyakit would have been faster17:31
kyakbut i accidentaly erased the rootfs ;)17:31
kyak(so i have to rebuild the image, too)17:32
virichow come? :)17:32
kyakthis is a strange story :)17:33
viricdid you use usbboot?17:34
viricor you tried that "cat uImage > /dev/mtdblock1" ?17:35
wpwrakviric: hmm, that may work, but it's probably better to use nandwrite17:36
wpwrakviric: did you erase the nand before writing ?17:36
viricwpwrak: nandwrite wants /dev/mtd1, isn't it?17:36
viricwpwrak: I did not erase. There is nothing like an 'erase operation' for the mtdblock, right?17:36
kyakviric: just misused the reflash_ben.sh17:36
viricwpwrak: if I don't erase.... it happens that it only puts "more 1s" or "more 0s"? :)17:37
kyakviric: could help you http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/nanonote-files/script-files/usr/bin/mtd.nn17:37
wpwrakviric: flash_erase erases17:38
wpwrakviric: if you don't erase, you'll just "put more 0s", yes17:39
viricI thought the 'mtdblock' writing interface would be more clever than putting more 0s17:39
viricI should have 'read' the mtdblock after flashing, to check if it worked17:40
viricwpwrak: what is that flash_erase from?17:40
wpwrakviric: mtd-utils17:42
viricah yes17:42
wpwrakviric: (read) good idea :)17:42
wpwrakviric: (clever interface) ther's nothing clever about nand ;-)17:42
viricI see I see...17:43
viricwhat a raw world that of nand17:43
kristianpaulor sort of :-)17:55
viricwhat is /s? and a back-box?17:56
kristianpauloops sorry17:58
kristianpaulviric: (/s) sorry vim typo18:01
viricaah :)18:02
virickyak: what is that mtd.nn? What you use?18:02
kyakviric: yeah, it can be used to flash rootfs/kernel from within Ben18:09
kyak(also to set the bootloader options)18:09
viricI didn't know that about bootloader options...18:10
viricdoes the 'fw_setenv' come with uboot?18:10
kyakit comes with uboot-envtools18:15
kyakyou can bind F1/2/3/4 to boot uImage from specific device/partition18:17
viricmmm o18:19
viricwell, I'm not changing the kernel that much18:19
viricI even don't use the SD.18:19
kyakviric: http://dpaste.com/486759/18:26
kyakwhat can you say? :)18:26
kyakhttp://dpaste.com/486765/ - with gmenu2x running18:28
kristianpaulmake gerber18:38
virickyak: let me see18:39
virickyak: very good numbers. Mine has a total of double PSS18:39
viricbut I use bash, and I have three or four mingetty18:39
kristianpaultuxbrain: u there?18:40
viricI don't have that hotplug218:40
kristianpaultuxbrain: you already have gerber and dxf?18:40
tuxbrainkristianpaul: no AFAIK18:42
kyakviric: here's the line for bash: 648     635     1176    1020    807     128     bash (711)18:43
virickyak: almost the same as with glibc.18:44
kristianpaulok lets export this..18:44
tuxbrainArdunote first steps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_wjXZmVWsI18:54
kristianpaul 18:55
kristianpaulMicrocircuitos dispone de 4 máquinas excellon de control numérico CNC-6 para garantizar el perforado, reuteado, scoring y corte de los circuitos, ya que nuestra línea de producción trabaja con paneles de 30x40 cm.18:55
virickyak: so, in glibc it has more RSS, but as RSS counts also what may be used by other processes....18:55
virickyak: the PSS number and the anonymous pages numbers are equal18:55
virickyak: they are even equal comparing with bash in my x86_64. :)18:56
virickyak: so it may be that glibc has the only advantadge that it takes more *disk space*, but not more RAM.19:04
wpwrakkristianpaul, tuxbrain: gerbers of what ?19:09
viricI find it heavy to upload videos to a mediawiki :)19:09
viricI'm quite sure that mediawiki is not running in a nanonote :D19:10
viricwhen will the qi-hardware.com stand on free hardware? ;)19:10
tuxbrainviric: wait until NN has a 8:10->ethernet dongle :) then we will see :)19:11
viricI'm sure it will not run a mediawiki :)19:11
tuxbrainhttp://www.tuxbrain.com/img/davidblog/ardunote/nanonote_loves_arduino_500.jpg :P19:13
Action: kristianpaul mail for atben-* quote sent19:14
wpwraktuxbrain: (video) almost perfect ;-) shouldn't the overview at the beginning mention UBB ?19:14
virictuxbrain: I know no doctor that can heal you from that19:14
wpwraktuxbrain: ah, and a typo: "flashwriter thaT includes", not "thaN"19:15
virictuxbrain: què és aquella pasta groga del fil?19:15
tuxbrainviric:hot glue (pegamento de silicona caliente del que se aplica con pistola)19:16
wpwraktuxbrain: (loves_arduino) cool ! ;-)19:16
Action: kristianpaul is not interested in atusb for now19:16
tuxbrainviric a video with "making of" of the cable high on the TODO list.19:17
virictuxbrain: vas vendre'n de nanonote-nanowar?19:18
tuxbrainviric: si, no una cantidad brutal pero van saliendo19:19
tuxbrainunos 10-12 llevare,19:20
viricmolt bé!19:20
wpwraktuxbrain: did you ship any with the real heavy metal ?19:23
virickyak: what is 'thd'?19:23
tuxbrainwpwrak: no sorry dude, reflashing is enough work to earn no money :P (Nanowar edition same price as Normal edition)19:27
wpwrak:-( poor metalheads, so close ...19:28
viricwhat do you mean 'the real heavy metal'?19:29
wpwrakviric: i send him a few counterweights19:29
virichow difficult it is to bind some actions to nanonote keys?19:31
viricfor suspending, for example19:31
viricis it reasonable to try to program an autosuspend in the nanonote?19:38
viricit's very fast suspending/resuming19:39
viricamazingly fast.19:39
kristianpauluntil it crash ;-)19:39
viricI'll try playing an mp3 :D19:39
kristianpaulyeah, but lars suguest just set the rtc to wakeup and suspend again the ben every certain minutes, so it can still alive19:40
virichm alsa breaks after resuming19:40
virickristianpaul: eh?19:40
virickristianpaul: to check the battery, and act depending on that?19:41
viricit may crash while suspended?19:41
kristianpaulseems there is a hw bug that dont allow ben to go sleep for more than some hours19:41
kristianpaulyes viric19:42
viricany documentation about this?19:42
viricor it's a rumour? :)19:42
kristianpaulthis irc andlogs19:42
kristianpaultuxbrain: confirm it19:42
virica rumour :)19:42
kristianpauli also19:42
kristianpauland i think larsc already knew it ;-)19:42
viricI still could not manage to do anything useful with the nanonote ;)19:43
kristianpaulah, also kristofer from jlime19:43
viriclarsc: can you give some details?19:43
kristianpaulall is usefull when you know what not to do :-)19:43
kristianpaulyou got fire, but also smoke, thats life :-)19:46
viricI mean...19:47
viricok, I can play doom there19:47
kristianpaulyou can swich to jlime too19:47
viricoh no no, I run 'my own' :D19:47
kristianpaulSo people already know how live well :-)19:47
viricwhat would jlime provide?19:47
kristianpaulah, much better19:47
kristianpaulviric: oe repo, some nicely gui19:48
kristianpaulX !19:48
kristianpauland doom too ;-)19:48
viricyes, but... with X, what would I do?19:48
viricI could have tried to run X, if I knew what to run on X.19:48
viricI mean...19:49
virica 320x240 X is not a great thing19:49
viricspecially since X is more thought for 2000x2000 screens :)19:49
viricThere is very little software for X that is meant to run on 320x24019:50
viricxtank will not run, for example. :D19:50
viricthere's a game I liked quite much.... xjump?19:50
viricthat could work19:51
viricdoes jlime have xjump? :)19:52
kristianpaulviric: http://kristianpaul.org/~paul/tmp/list_of_file.txt.tar.gz19:54
kristianpaulyou can check that list19:54
virickristianpaul: no xjump :)20:03
viricI think someone made a SDL variant of xjump, because I remember playing it in the gp2x20:03
Action: Jay7 remembers hildon and poky sato interface20:26
Jay7started as attempt to adapt apps GUI to small screens and now separate UI toolkits :)20:27
Jay7well, almost separate20:27
Jay7well, not separate but pretending :)20:27
Jay7someone should do this with E1720:28
viricJay7: what is that poky and hildon?21:13
viricand what is e17?21:13
virickristianpaul: do you use X with a virtual desktop?21:14
kristianpaulviric: in the nanonote?21:21
kristianpauli used jlime in a time21:23
kristianpaulnow i'm back to openwrt, as the only think i need today is there21:23
viricwhat thing?21:23
kristianpaulalso i can buidl open wrt easilly than oe21:23
kristianpaulgmu, nanomap, dictionary21:24
kristianpauland sure, the shell and other utils :-)21:24
viricgmu is a music player?21:24
kristianpauloh !21:24
virichm does it have a quick and good fast forward/rewind?21:24
viricBecause this is what I lack in mpg123...21:24
kristianpauli dunno21:24
wejpgmu has fast forward21:24
viricI use to listen to radio programs in mp3, and it's important for me to quickly pass the advertisements :)21:25
wejpyes, you can do that21:25
kristianpaulalso i'm using zgv for viewving comics21:25
wejpgmu can also remember iits position in the current track and continue when you restart it21:25
virichow does it work? playing little excerpts and jumping some frames?21:25
viricwejp: ah, also important!21:25
viricwhere is the web page of gmu?21:26
kristianpauland i hope soon have mplayer too, so i want to stay with openwrt :-)21:26
wejpviric: http://wejp.k.vu/projects/gmu21:26
viricit's the first time I see a .vu :)21:27
viricI'll try to package it...21:27
Jay7viric: hildon is UI was used in meego21:27
Jay7normal apps (gtk mostly) was patched to fit that UI21:28
viricJay7: does it run on more places?21:28
Jay7it is something like window manager and toolkit21:28
Jay7matchbox-based iirc21:29
kristianpaulJay7: is thab a gmenu2x replacement? ;-)21:29
kristianpaulah, gtk..21:29
kristianpaulgorgot it21:29
Jay7poky in sato release have something alike but seems there was just patched matcbox21:29
Jay7viric: not sure it was ported somewhere else21:29
viricJay7: is it written for X?21:30
Jay7I've thought about porting to Zauruses but w/o any real move21:30
viricdo you know something non-x?21:30
Jay7viric: qtopia :)21:30
Jay7opie even21:31
Jay7it works fine on qvga PDAs21:31
Jay7I'll try even to build opie image for nanonote one time :)21:31
kristianpaulnanomap is qt and amazingly it runs smothly most of the time21:32
viricwa, that hildon thing looks very heavy21:32
Jay7viric: yep, X11 + gtk21:32
Jay7bad for arm/mips21:33
viricit's full of super-effects for DSPs like omap3/4?21:33
viricJay7: do those use the approach of exec() like the gp2x menu?21:34
Jay7no, it is something like DE21:35
viricI don't know DE21:35
Jay7i.e. toolkit + UI guidelines + set of apps21:35
viric(touch screen required. ups)21:35
Jay7bluelightning (one of OPIE developers) said that opie apps should be usable w/o ts21:36
Jay7iirc, that is true21:36
viricthat paints the framebuffer directly, I understand21:36
Jay7yes, via QT's qws21:36
virichm 'qws'?21:37
virichow many acronyms21:37
kristianpaulqtmoko ?21:37
Jay7opie is early fork of qtopia which is now known as QT embedded :)21:37
Jay7about 1.5 or 2.021:37
Jay7qws is qt window server :)21:37
viric1.5 or 2.0 of what? qt versions?21:37
kristianpaulJay7: are you aware of nanomap?21:38
viricouch. that's way back :)21:38
Jay7kristianpaul: not yet :)21:38
kristianpaulwhat qt version is that?21:38
kristianpaulah ok21:38
Jay7viric: yeah, but remember talk about MS Office 95 on Pentium 75Mhz/32Mb RAM ;)21:38
Jay7wow.. Jlime is using OPIE according to wikipedia ;)21:39
Jay7seems wikipedia is wrong here21:40
Jay7or may be it was used some time ago21:40
kristianpaulJay7: is not21:40
kristianpaulis a wiki !21:40
virickristianpaul: what dictionary engine you use?21:42
Jay7hm.. seems anarsoul at least have clone of opie git repo21:42
kristianpaulviric: startdict21:43
viricwith what ui?21:43
viric(I personally prefer dictd)21:43
kristianpaulwith that ui, yes :-)21:44
kristianpaulthere i a comand line version21:44
viricwejp: is gmu GPLv2 or GPLv2+?21:49
virichm what is tremor? mmm21:52
viricah got it!21:53
viricI didn't know of tremor at all21:53
viricwejp: you may know how to configure the alsa softvol. I never succeeded :)22:05
viricwejp: aren't there keymaps for SDL-on-X in CP?22:10
wejpviric, there is a keymap for the pc, but it might have been named incorrectly in the default config file, so it does not get loaded22:18
wejpyou can easily fix it though22:18
viric'newdefault', with gmuinput 'unknown' maybe?22:19
wejpunder X you can also resize Gmu's window if you like22:21
viricwejp: hm it uses pthread_cancel...22:21
wejppthread_cancel? where?22:23
viricI played an mp3...22:23
viric(I lacked libgcc_s...)22:23
viricand when I switched to play *Another* mp3, it died not finding pthread_cancel22:23
viricmaybe a library uses it.22:23
wejpweird, must be a library22:24
wejpit should work just fine on a PC22:24
viricSDL I thkn22:24
viricyes, it works... Let's see if tremor work22:24
aisaI'm having difficulty reaching qi-hardware.com, just in the last couple minutes.22:26
aisaIs anyone else seeing a problem?22:26
viricwejp: uhm segfault on playing an ogg....22:26
viric(on pc)22:26
wejpthat is very strange, could you run it in a debugger and check where it dies?22:27
wejpit should never die with a segfault22:27
viricwell, maybe I did something wrong with trmor22:27
wejpaisa, yes, doesn't work for me either22:28
wejpoh, now it does22:28
viricwejp: on gdb I can't reproduce it! :)22:28
viriccoverimg: Thread stopped.22:28
viricsdl_frontend: start_player() done.22:28
viricthen, segfault22:29
viric(it was playing an mp3, and I clicked 'a' over an ogg)22:29
viricpam, again, switching to mp3 while playing an ogg22:29
wejphm, interesting22:29
viric http://sprunge.us/bgIQ22:31
wejphm, i can switch as fast as i like between ogg and mp3 files without any problems22:31
viric^ wejp22:31
wejptry deleting log.so22:32
wejpyou don't need that plugin22:32
wejpbut it shouldn't be enabled by default anyway22:32
wejpit is for logging the played songs to a textfile22:32
viricI run it from a read-only directory22:33
viricI built with debug info, and I can't reproduce it .grrr22:33
viricwejp: grr I can't get it again! :)22:36
viricdid you see the sprunge.us link?22:37
wejpdoes it still happen without the log.so file?22:37
viricI have the log.so file, but I built with debug info22:38
viricmaybe it's optimization-related...22:38
viricI'll try with O222:38
wejpyes, but delete the log.so file and try if it still crashes22:39
viricShouldn't log.so be installed at all?22:39
viric(i'm packaging it for a linux distribution)22:39
wejpgmu does not need that file. it is optional22:39
wejpit is being used for logging played tracks, but it is not necessary at all22:39
viricI just run 'make install'22:39
wejpyes, it is included by default and should not do any harm, but judging from the gdb output it dies somewhere in there22:40
virichow to do fast forward in the pc?22:40
wejpwhich is why i suggested removing that file, to check if it still dies22:40
viricok got it22:40
wejpi think it is mapped to the m and n buttons by default22:40
viric(with -O2 it happened922:40
wejpoh even without the log.so file?22:40
wejpnow that is really strange22:41
wejpDELETE IT and try again22:41
viricI want to help you solve the bug :)22:41
viricI don't mind if it crashes to me. I want you to fix it ;)22:41
viric http://sprunge.us/cXdB22:41
Last message repeated 1 time(s).22:41
wejpi know,, and to fix it i need to be sure there is a bug there22:41
wejpwhich is why i am asking you to delete that file and try again22:41
viriccheck the sprunge.us22:42
viric(gdb) print lf22:42
viric$3 = (FILE *) 0x022:42
viricyou don't check the return of lf = fopen(logfile, "a");22:43
wejpi know the place where it might have died, the question is why it was running that code at all22:43
wejpweird, it should never execute that part by default22:44
viriclogbot: Initializing logger.22:44
viricfeloader: Loading log.so was gmusrv: Socket created.22:44
viricgmu: Searching for frontends in /nix/store/0fhv5bfhwpnxm4sqi6v7qc83vs8z3sb5-gmu-0.7.2/22:44
viricfeloader: 3 frontends found.22:44
viricdoes this hel?22:45
wejpthat's okay, but the log plugin is usually disabled by default22:45
viricwhat determines what is enabled or disabled?22:45
wejpthe config file22:45
wejpthere is a line to enable it22:45
viricI used gmu.unknown.conf22:46
wejpoh, ok then it is enabled22:46
wejpmust have changed it by mistake22:46
viricthe only example config that has it enabled :)22:46
wejpyeah, wasn't meant to be enabled ;)22:47
viricok! :)22:47
viricthen you can disable that, and make the log code a bit 'stronger' :)22:47
wejpyes, that's already done in the code for the next release :)22:47
wejpit shouldn't die that easily22:47
viricyou are fast.22:47
viricsomehow I could not make it fail with -O22:48
viricand for the error... it looks as if should have crashed at once.22:48
viricwejp: https://svn.nixos.org/websvn/nix?op=comp&compare[]=%2F@26265&compare[]=%2F@26266    gmu packaged22:49
viricit looks great, btw.22:50
viricIf I knew how to use the alsa softvol... I would use it in the nanonote22:50
wejpi think you can configure such things through the .asoundrc config file22:50
viricyes, but I simply don't know what to put there22:51
viricI did several attempts22:51
wejpthere you can define a virtual audio device with a software mixer attached22:51
viricI never understood alsa well.22:51
wejpoh, it's been a while since i have been configuring such things22:51
wejpyeah, alsa is a mess22:51
wejposs4 is much nicer and it is very simple to use a software mixer in oss422:52
viriccan I use that in the nanonote?22:52
viricI use 2.6.3622:52
wejpit is probably missing support for the nanonote's audio device22:52
viricah. the audio driver has to be written specifically for oss422:53
wejpyes, oss4 does not depend on alsa22:53
viricwhat is that zipit thing?22:54
wejpit is a device very similar to the nanonote (but not copyleft hardware)22:55
wejpsimilar specs, but comes with build in wifi22:55
viricahh looks interesting22:55
wejpand it is very cheap, has been sold in the US for about $10 recently22:55
viricand the specs?22:55
viricdoes it have any pointer device?22:56
wejpruns on a marvell pxa270 with 312 MHz22:56
wejpnot, only a keyboard22:56
wejpbut the keyboard has a backlight ;)22:56
viricand RAM/nand ?22:56
wejp32 MB RAM and 8 MB internal flash22:56
wejpand there is lots of development going on for the device22:57
viricah, 8MB is yes little22:57
wejpit runs a very recent kernel too22:57
viricbattery life?22:57
wejp2.6.38-rc7 =)22:57
wejpbattery life largely depends on display and keyboard backlight settings and on wifi usage22:57
viricwell, I imagine.22:57
wejpabout 4 and a half hour when using wifi the whole time22:58
viricthat's quite good22:58
wejpwith powersaving stuff enabled people have been using it for more than 10 hours22:58
wejpyes, 320x24022:58
virichm very nice22:59
viricit's the first time I hear about it22:59
wejpit has also usb host on its external connector at the back22:59
viricCan't we just get their wifi? :)22:59
viricwejp: ohh good22:59
wejphehe, yeah, wifi on the nanonote would be very nice, or usb host at least22:59
wejphttp://wejp.k.vu/images/z2.jpg =)23:01
Jay7keyboard seems not very linux-friendly :)23:02
wejphehe, it was meant for chatting mostly, but it is oky for linux usage23:02
Jay7well, linux hacker friendly23:02
Jay7I see no ` and | :)23:03
wejpi have mapped them somewhere23:03
wejpi think i have | on shift+smiley23:03
Jay7iirc only zauruses and nanonote have full set of keys23:03
Jay7ah, jornada may be23:03
Jay7tab, `, |, /, \23:04
Jay7etc :)23:04
wejpwell it has several buttons you can use for other things23:04
wejptab is on the silver button in the middle23:04
wejpit is pretty easy to remap things as you like23:04
wejpand it also has volume up/down buttons on the right side23:05
wejpwhich one can use for page up/down or something like that23:05
wejpand it has three leds at the front23:06
wejpi use them for showing disk activiy and wireless activity23:06
viricah do you own a pandora?23:07
jcomhi,the link to the script reflash_ben.sh seems to be broken23:07
viricwejp: is it nice? :)23:07
jcomdoes anybody have a copy?23:07
wejpthat pandora has pretty much any button you need23:07
wejpviric, yeah, its screen resolution is really nice. yery sharp image23:08
viricand does the battery stand?23:08
wejpand the cpu is fast and it has a great battery runtime23:08
viricah ok23:08
viricgreat toy then23:08
wejpit runs a little more than 10 hours23:08
wejpwith wifi turned on all the time23:08
wejpwhen reducing display brightness one can easily achieve a runtime of about 14 hours23:10
viricvery nice23:10
viricOk, thank you for your time! Nice talk23:11
viricI learnt some things.23:11
jcomhey wejp, had you any issue with the build quality of your Pandora?23:16
jcomI read some comments from disappointed people23:17
wejpjcom, i'd say the build quality of the nanonote is better than that of the pandora23:17
wejpthe build quality of the case is okay, but not great23:17
wejpthe shoulder buttons are somewhat stiff, but that is supposed to be better on newer pandoras23:19
wejpi have written a little review back then when i got mine http://wejp.k.vu/pandora/pandora-review23:20
jcomthe Pandora is a nice device, but having to pay in advance without knowing when you are going to receive your unit is discouraging23:22
mthI'm still waiting for mine, ordered 2.5 years ago23:26
mththere still isn't a device that has the same feature set though, so I think it will still be nice to get it23:27
wejpyes, it is23:28
jcomwell, some people thinks that the next PSP will be much better23:28
wejpof course smartphones are getting faster all the time, so they can do lots of things now which they couldn't do two years ago, so at least partly they can replace a device like the pandora23:29
wejpnot for serious gaming of course23:29
mthPSP might be nice if it wasn't made by Sony23:30
wejpeven if the next psp would be a lot more powerful i wouldn't buy it23:31
mththe Nokia N900 is probably the closest thing to the Pandora23:31
mthvery similar internally23:31
mthbut no game controls23:31
viricwell, it's not all about the power...23:41
virica nanonote with more ram can beat many things23:41
viricand a pointer device23:41
jcomgoing back to my question, does anybody have a copy of the reflash_ben.sh script?23:44
jcomthe current link ends in the xburst-tools git page23:45
viricI don't know that script23:47
virica web seearch engine does not help?23:47
viricjcom: http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/cgi-bin/nanonixos/doc/trunk/doc/reflash.wiki here I have instructions on how to reflash...23:48
viric(if it helps)23:48
jcomthanks viric, I will try tomorrow23:52
Jay7wiki should have instruction how to reflash w/o that script23:53
viricthat link points to the source of the information23:53
jcomyes, but the script was perfect for lazy people like me23:54
jcomanyway, I will try tomorrow, today I am a bit tired for that23:55
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