#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-03-08

qi-bot[commit] kyak: xburst-tools buffered output patch http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/a3a38ca03:12
rjeffries_wpwrak did you see: http://shop.moderndevice.com/products/bub_ii04:43
rjeffries_mumble: supporting h/w flow control on nxuart is prolly A Good Thing04:44
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: disable CONFIG_ALL, add Tile and gottet http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/4c23f2d06:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: add supertux, terminus-font http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/4c6dfc506:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: build gcc-mips, make, binutils as modules. Remove http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3916e5f06:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: remove "=m" packages http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f2bfc5a06:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: don't include ghostscript and fbgs into rootfs, build as modules http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/38ae85f06:15
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: config.full_system: fix name of gnuplot package (was renamed a long time ago) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/c01453206:15
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add zgv, MPlayer, brainless http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/76010c706:15
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: remove custum banner, focus on 100% upstream, http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/09a0a6206:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: add setterm http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/2cb0ceb06:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: include GNU tar http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/56c68f906:15
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: [package] ks7010: Remove debug printks http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/4cd6a3c06:15
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: [xburst] jz_mmc: Drop warning about spares irqs. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/0f173bc06:15
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: [xburst] Improve mounttime. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/152655506:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: have sound modules built in kernel http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5db429d06:15
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: reflash_ben.sh, new option b k r, reboot device after reflash http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/40ce74606:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: add sound options to default config, so that it won't popup http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f3b0c9b06:15
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system: add openssh-sftp-server http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/190d23906:15
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update opkg.conf, don't using /tmp keep packages information http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ea1bf4f06:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: busybox enhancements http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/495b90306:15
qi-bot[commit] kyak: config.full_system: more busybox options http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b2bc48706:15
wpwrakxiangfu: btw, not sure if you've seen this: i moved the avrdude patches and also added a new feature: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-March/007481.html08:06
wpwrakxiangfu: i still have a few more things pending and then i'll see how avrdude upstream likes all this08:07
xiangfuthe email is on my TODO list later tonight :)08:09
xiangfuwpwrak: I will update the openwrt package.08:10
kyakxiangfu: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-03072011-1900/BUILD_LOG.03072011-2055.last100 <- i've got the same error :)08:10
wpwrakxiangfu: (todo) kewl, thanks :)08:10
kyakwow the crippled configure (after autorecond) from gtkhtml has managed to DoS my host08:15
kyak*** Notice -- WARNING: Time jumped ~36 seconds ahead!08:16
kyakheh, the case when configure gets patched rather then .in08:17
kyakjow_laptop: xMff: please accept the patch: http://dpaste.com/481876/08:26
xMffkyak: how do you generate your patches btw?08:40
kyakxMff: svn diff from feeds/packages,desktop etc08:57
xMffkyak: I mean patches within packages08:58
kyakhm.. i unpack tarball to tmp, cp -r package_dir package_dir.orig, do changes in package_dir, then diff08:59
xMffI see, I suggest to read http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/devel/patches08:59
wpwraktuxbrain: hah, he lives ! been soldering all weekend ? :)09:00
xMffas a side effect you get nice clean patch files without timestamps and stuff, so the final deltas have less noise09:00
tuxbrainwpwrak: nop was carnival here :)09:00
kyakxMff: nice! i've never used that before! libglade is the next failure, i will try to generate the patch quilt way :)09:02
Action: tuxbrain was also polishing 500 UBB with a cutter09:02
tuxbrainyesterday I have sended all UPS ones today I will send using standard national postmail09:04
wpwraktuxbrain: (polish 500) heh, i had that picture in my mind. tuxbrain up to the elbows in FR4 dust ;-)09:05
tuxbrainwpwrak: yep :), but well at least was a task I can do on the sofa09:06
tuxbrainwpwrak: I think I have asked you already (sure) but don't let me digg in the irc logs,  where is the SPI->8:10 pin correspondence?09:10
wpwraktuxbrain: there is no SPI. there is only MMC/SD/SDIO09:13
wpwraktuxbrain: the latter is printed on the boards :)09:13
tuxbrainok you are a little picky today... where I can find SDIO->Atmega pins correspondence to flash it using your patched avrdude?.... better that way?09:14
wpwrakaah, avrdude. that would be explained in avrdude.conf09:16
wpwraksearch for "nanonote"09:16
xMffkyak: ok, committed09:16
wpwrakthe driver does not have a hard-coded assignment of SPI pins. instead, you define what the pins do in avrdude.conf09:16
wpwraki.e., atusb-pgm and nxuart have different pin assignments09:17
tuxbrainbut are related to SPI pins, isn't it?09:18
tuxbrainalso there is any place in your code to digg on SPI communication (not flashing)?09:19
kyakxMff: thanks!09:19
tuxbrain(mmm the previous question was already done some time ago I guess)09:19
wpwraktuxbrain: for spi comm, you could look at ben-wpan/lib/09:21
tuxbrainok09:21
wpwrakerr, ben-wpan/tools/lib/09:21
xMffkyak: stupid question, why gconf-2.0 is left in configure when it is completely patched out with the next patch?09:21
wpwrakit's not the most simple example, though. if you just want bit-banging, ben-blinkenlights/bbl/ is your friend09:22
tuxbrainmmm damn when I try to compile with avr-gcc09:26
tuxbrain/data/avr/bin/../lib/gcc/avr/4.3.4/../../../../avr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgcc09:26
tuxbrainis and empty test.c file09:26
xMfftuxbrain: on-target ?09:27
tuxbrainldd /data/avr/bin/../lib/gcc/avr/4.3.4/../../../09:27
xMfftuxbrain: or crosscompile?09:27
tuxbrain../avr/bin/ld09:27
tuxbrainldd: can't open cache '/etc/ld.so.cache'09:27
tuxbrainlibgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x2aabe000)09:27
tuxbrainlibc.so.0 => /lib/libc.so.0 (0x2aade000)09:27
tuxbrainld-uClibc.so.0 => /lib/ld-uClibc.so.0 (0x2aaa8000)09:27
tuxbrainon the NN09:27
kyakxMff: good question. And i don't really understand why gconf-2.0 is patched out.. It should work fine. Might want to have a closer look later09:27
wpwrakxMff: it's tuxbrain's S&M edition ;-)09:28
xMfftuxbrain: I think you must copy avr-gcc's libgcc too09:28
xMfftuxbrain: and put it in /data/avr/lib09:28
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw, what's the schedule on your (sharism's) side for ben-wpan. fedex say adam should have something to play with by tomorrow evening.09:33
wpwrakwolfspraul: (roh's still seems to be sitting in the post office; richard's is waiting for roh's to leave the country)09:35
wolfspraulgood question09:52
wolfspraulI think we are ready for the run of 100 each, no?09:52
tuxbrainwolfspraul: givemegivemegiveme09:53
wolfspraulthe problem is that Adam is in the middle of the m1 rc3 run09:53
wpwrakwolfspraul: from my side, i think the hw is good to go. adam will have to check manufacturability.09:54
wpwrakwolfspraul: one open issue is the cover/case. if roh needs any modifications to the pcb for it, then we'd have to wait for his feedback.09:55
wpwrakwolfspraul: of course, if we just dunk the boards in silicone, the silicone will adapt to any shape ;-)09:55
wpwrakwolfspraul: the next step would be firmware flashing for atusb. the boot loader isn't ready yet, but that shouldn't take long. the sw and hw for the actual flashing is ready.09:57
wpwrakwolfspraul: finally, functional testing. this still needs a bit of work. but there's even more time for that :)09:58
wolfspraulwondering whether we can produce the 8:10 and usb version together in one pcb and smt run10:00
wolfspraulthat would save quite a bit of costs10:00
wpwrakyou could probably pre-panelize them. e.g., 2 atben plus 2 atusb as one "mini-panel"10:01
wpwrakthe L-shaped atben are best placed together. otherwise you'll waste quite a bit of board space10:02
wpwraklemme see if i have something in my discard pile ...10:03
tuxbrainxMff: yeah! that was the issue :), seems than the failing install has also forgot to put the lib .a files , now it at least compiles an main(){} :P hope there was nothing more broken10:03
kyakxMff: please accept the patch for libglade: http://dpaste.com/481917/ (created with quilt, then svn diffed :)10:09
wpwrakwolfspraul: this is what i meant: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/double-l.jpg10:11
wpwrakwolfspraul: you could combine this with a pair of atusb. wouldn't give you maximum coverage, but it's probably still better than separate boards.10:12
wolfspraulhe, yes. very clear picture :-)10:16
wpwrakthese were positioned in the post-processing, so i don't have a single kicad or gerber file with multiple boards. not sure how one would make the tabs that connect boards. maybe that's something the fab provides routinely (they did in the case of UBB)10:22
wpwrakadam would know such things10:22
jow_laptopkyak: what does it do/fix?10:23
kyakjow_laptop: the AM_PATH_GTK_2_0, defined in gtk-2.0.m4, cannot be found. It causes an error later during configure. Therefore, I used the check for gtk like in gtkhtml instead10:27
jow_laptopok10:27
jow_laptopallright, will do it within the next half hour10:28
kyaksure, thanks!10:28
tuxbrainno make on openwrt?11:07
jow_laptoptuxbrain: there is but currently restricted to x8611:08
kyakopkg install make?11:08
jow_laptopoh, actually not11:08
kyakPackage make (3.81-1) installed in root is up to date.11:08
kyak:)11:08
tuxbrainkyak: what image you are using?11:09
kyakhttps://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=46022#p46022 <- had fun reading the IRC log :)11:09
kyaktuxbrain: hm.. the one i built yesterday at night :)11:09
kyaktuxbrain: if you have troubles installing make, make sure it ran "opkg update" first11:14
tuxbraina precious Blink.hex has been generated :)11:16
tuxbrainfrom arduino examples11:16
tuxbrainusing arduino libraries11:16
wpwraktuxbrain: now you just need to flash it :)11:17
tuxbrainwell seems is time to some serious soldering making a UBB->ArduinoSPI :)11:17
tuxbraincable11:17
tuxbrainIn theory I don't need the bootloader isn't it? but I can reflash the bootloader anytime (I have them copied on NN )11:19
wpwraksure. if you can flash directly, you have almost limitless power11:22
tuxbrainwell time to dress up a little the recording studio (euphemistic way to say I must enter the bulldozzer in the cave to retire tons of garbage) to make a proper howto make the cable video :)11:29
tuxbrainalso a good time to play some Metal and headbanging will doing so11:30
Action: tuxbrain is happy11:30
wpwrak;-)11:34
wolfspraulOrnotermes: you there? I want to ping your brain with a question about lenses...12:30
Ornotermeswolfspraul: i'm here12:32
wolfspraulah cool12:32
wolfspraulI try to understand what different types of lenses exist, in general. what categories.12:33
wolfspraulthe easy thing is the focal length and viewing angle12:33
wolfspraulbut then there are special types, like telecentric lenses, or ultraviolet (?)12:34
wolfspraulis fisheye the same as wide angle?12:34
wolfspraulthere are lenses with and without IR filter12:34
wolfspraulit's confusing (to me)12:34
Ornotermesbasicly there is all kinds of lenses12:34
wolfspraul:-)12:35
wolfspraulok but let's start with the most common ones. they just differ in focal length/field angle.12:35
wolfspraulcorrect?12:35
wolfspraulshort focal length = big angle, long focal length = small angle12:36
wolfspraulwhat other types do you find interesting, or make sense in certain typical applications?12:36
wolfspraulnice, just the right netsplit. that was more like a communicationsplit.12:37
wolfspraulOrnotermes: he, you are back12:43
Ornotermesyeah, bad case of the splits12:44
wolfspraulI found things like "uv quartz lenses" http://www.ukaoptics.com/uvquartz.html12:44
wolfspraulor "germanium assembly lenses" http://www.azurephotonics.com/products/IR%20Lenses/IR%20Lenses.html12:45
wolfspraulwhich types of lenses do you find interesting/practical for yourself?12:45
Ornotermesdifferent kinds of glass block different wavelenghts12:45
wolfspraulthe cmos/ccd sensor will work with any kind of wavelength?12:47
wolfspraulso it's up to the lense to decide whether the camera takes a IR or UV picture?12:48
Ornotermesdu you have a link to the datasheed för the sensor?12:48
Ornotermesi think it have built in filters12:48
Ornotermeshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet#Natural_sources_of_UV 2nd paragraph - about glass and UV-light12:50
wolfspraulok reading12:51
wolfspraulwhat types of lenses do you use yourself, or find interesting?12:51
Ornotermesnormal cameras block IR, and most block UV12:52
Ornotermesso i use regular glass optics12:52
wolfspraulwhat blocks it?12:53
wolfspraulthe sensor?12:53
Ornotermesa color filter on the photo sensor12:54
Ornotermesusually looks kind of blue-green12:54
wolfspraulah yes. I remember Andrey told me he sens sensors to Russia where they remove this filter :-)12:54
wolfspraulsends12:54
Ornotermesi've done it on a couple of old pocket cameras, but it scres up the focus12:55
wolfspraulok, so using quartz glass for the lense is one thing12:56
wolfspraulwhich only makes sense if the sensor doesn't block uv12:56
Ornotermesit might not make sense for every one uven if it works12:57
Ornotermesfor normal photos you want to block light that the human eye can't see12:57
Ornotermesbut for technical use both IR and UV might be very useful12:58
wolfspraulgermanium lense and quartz lense are two different things?12:59
Ornotermesi really don't know :P12:59
wolfspraul'fisheye' is just a fancy term for wide angle, right?13:00
Ornotermesbot llok at the properies, thats what interesting13:00
wolfspraulso a lense like this http://www.azurephotonics.com/products/CCD%20Mini%20Lenses/Board/FIFO-2.1-1B.html13:01
wolfspraulwith 160o field angle, would be considered a fisheye lense?13:01
Ornotermesas far as i know13:01
wolfspraulok cool13:02
wolfspraulsorry for my brutal newbie questions...13:02
wolfspraulI think your confidence already spilled over to me, I can read some more now :-)13:02
wolfspraulthanks!13:02
Ornotermesi think its pretty wide angle, but i'm not an optics expert13:04
Ornotermesi haven't used winde angle lenses so i cant relate it to anything13:06
Ornotermesbut keep in mind that the lens have to be made to work with the sensor size you're using13:07
wolfspraulsure, that I know13:07
wolfspraulI visited Azure and got a nice full-day tour of everything13:08
wolfspraulvery impressive13:08
wolfspraulunfortunately I was overwhelmed, would love to go again13:08
Ornotermeswhats the url for the sensor datasheet?13:09
wolfspraulno sensor in mind13:11
Ornotermesoh, ok13:11
Ornotermesthen i think one without filters would be best so the end user can select the spectrum13:12
Ornotermesif possible13:12
wolfspraulwhy do the normal sensors have filters then?13:15
Ornotermesfor instance a full spectrum all way up to IR light could be very useful for night surveillence13:15
Ornotermesbevause (primarly IR) interfere with the "normal" colors13:16
wolfspraulyes but the lense is still there, so the lense could filter that out?13:17
Ornotermesin a full spectrum camera green plants look yrllow13:17
Ornotermesno, a regular lens lets morst IR light pass13:18
wolfspraulan IR filter on a lense is that redish looking film you can see when looking at the lense from the side, correct?13:18
Ornotermesyes, the red you see is the lowest part of the light the filter reflect13:19
wolfspraulah, interesting13:19
Ornotermesbut i tou look throu the filter it looks kind of blue13:19
wolfspraulso if you have a full spectrum sensor, and then a lense with such IR filter, then you are back to normal, and green plants are green?13:20
Ornotermeshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_cut-off_filter13:20
Ornotermesyes13:20
wolfspraulgot it13:20
Ornotermesas long as there is a filter anywhere along the way of light13:20
Ornotermesor if one use only light without IR :P13:27
qi-bot[commit] kyak: cxxtools: updated to 2.0, fix build issues http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/cc7557c13:38
qi-bot[commit] kyak: jbofihe: fix build http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/c04a57914:46
qi-bot[commit] kyak: libgii: fix build http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/dcc4ef715:02
qi-bot[commit] kyak: tntnet: update to 2.0, fix build http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/55b264716:44
Action: wpwrak admires taiwan customs: package arrives at 12:25 am and is released at 12:25 am. unlike with argentine customs, this happens on the same day ...18:09
kristianpaulpass pass pass !18:09
kristianpaulwpwrak: in colombia takes from 2 hrs up to half day18:10
kristianpaulmay be argentina custom just like hold it in order to create some sign of ..18:11
wpwrakkristianpaul: here, they often sit on it until the afternoon. sometimes also until the next day. many years ago, they were quicker and most things were cleared and delivered the day of their arrival18:11
kristianpaulwpwrak: how long you had been in argentina btw?18:12
wpwrakkristianpaul: sign of ... ? everyone knows that they're lazy, corrupt, and inefficient. you should have seen the comments in a newspaper article (online) when the boss of the customs office at ezeiza (argentina's main airport) was arrested for something a while ago18:13
kristianpaulwpwrak: i was waiting you to say it :-)18:13
wpwrakkristianpaul: about 9.1 years by now18:14
kristianpauloh, nice :-)18:14
wpwraktime flies ;-)18:14
kristianpauloh yes :(18:15
M_RojasArgentina, as a country, is great, except that it's full of Argentines :-)18:35
kristianpaulM_Rojas: ah you !!18:39
kristianpaulThats funny a venezuelan told me the same once :-) about his country18:39
Ornotermesit would be cool with a nanonote with a clear case19:04
Ornotermeshttp://www.applefritter.com/node/316519:06
Action: wpwrak hates ubuntu. when trying to "upgrade away" a problem that made multiple virtual desktops almost unusable, i now got two of three screens that stay dark, xpdf still segfaults, and evince either fails with some mysterious dbus error (what the heck does a pdf viewer need dbus for ?) or crashes the x server. xrandr crashes x, too.19:06
tuxbrainwpwrak: what version and what machine? I had been running an uncrashing ubuntu for years?19:17
tuxbrain?->!19:18
kristianpaultuxbrain: ubuntu 5.04? :)19:18
tuxbrainwpwrak: he, I move from LTS to LTS so now 10.04 on main pc and I let the laptop taste the lastest releaases... no problem since 9.0419:19
PreguntonHello everyone19:59
PreguntonI have a problem with my lap20:00
PreguntonAnyone can help me?20:00
kristianpaul#hardware20:04
kristianpaulsorry not here :(20:05
aisaThat was strange.  Pregunton PM'd me asking for help.20:12
tuxbrainalsa: maybe with audio problems?:P20:17
aisatuxbrain: ha!  right.  I think because I show up early alphabetically on the channel.20:17
tuxbrainyour nick is alsa on a whatever-hardware channel , it's no so illogical :P20:18
aisaI really thought it was a troll; I understand 'lap' to mean 'I have a problem in my pants.'20:19
aisathough at the end of the very brief conversation I think the person was earnest and in the wrong place.20:19
viricaisa: yes, it looked like some kind of sex proposal20:20
wpwraktuxbrain: 11.04 ... (by accident)21:04
tuxbrainwpwrak: on SPI, MOSI of one side has to be connected with MOSI in the other?21:12
tuxbrainsame aply to MISO, SCLK, CS, SS?21:13
wpwraktuxbrain: yes, no crossing21:29
tuxbrainwpwrak: I have a dilema, following this pinout http://www.instructables.com/id/Adding-ICSP-header-to-your-ArduinoAVR-board/step3/ICSP-header-pinout/22:23
tuxbrainseems pretty straight forward with the avrdude how to make a cable but, I have a problem with the VTG, I guess is the where we have to supply 3V3 , so first question what UBB pin match this and second one22:23
tuxbrainif arduino board is already powered the VTG ping throws 5V, I don't have too much knowledge on electronics but I'm sure this is a bad thing having somthing triying to put 3V3 volts in an already 5V active pin... any idea? I would like to use ISCP header to also communicate with the board once powered , maybe puting a diode will solve this?22:23
wpwraktrying to put 5 V into the 3.3 V of the ben would actually be worse. not sure how it reacts to this. if you have a ben you don't like, maybe you can try ;-)22:28
tuxbrainthe UBB to ICSP correspondence:22:29
tuxbrainDAT2->RST22:29
tuxbrainDAT3->MOSI22:29
tuxbrainGND->GND22:29
wpwraka diode would help, yes. you'd lose a few hundred mV over the diode, but that may still be okay22:29
tuxbrainDAT0->SCK22:29
tuxbrainDAT1->MISO22:30
tuxbrain?->VTG22:30
wpwrakVDD -> >| -> VTG    where >| is a diode22:30
wpwrakfor DATAn, you can pick any order. you can also use CMD. they all get assigned in avrdude.conf22:31
wpwrakand soon you'll even be able to use CLK :) (unless you need CLK to actually provide a clock, but that's not an issue here)22:32
tuxbrainOK :) I take note to add a diode to the UBB->ISCP, and will see if another combination can maintain the flat cable with less crossings22:33
wpwrakhow does VTG connect to the arduino circuit ? the instructable seems a bit vague on it22:35
tuxbrainwpwrak: arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduino-uno-schematic.pdf22:39
Action: wpwrak curses22:41
wpwraktuxbrain: no PDF viewing :-(22:41
tuxbrainyou have mail22:43
wpwrakthanks :)22:46
tuxbrainmmm following the schema seems than VTG goes no where just throws 5V....22:46
wpwraklooks good. it connects to the regulated side22:47
virictuxbrain: this is what I call a 'binary format schematic'22:54
viriclacking it's "source"22:55
tuxbrainviric: I think eagles files are also aviable23:22
wpwrakcharming ... seems that avrdude can't "jump ahead" when writing a boot loader23:25
wpwrakah, unless i tell it explicitly to select that area. very well, we can do that ...23:28
wpwrak... which of course only exists for other chips than the one i have. well, that answers the implicit question how it would find out which of the several possible destinations it should select.23:32
tuxbrainwpwrak: are you working in firmware of what?(atben? atusb?nxuart?)23:45
wpwrakatusb. atben has none :) and nxuart doesn't need a boot loader23:50
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