#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2011-02-19

rjeffrieswpwrak I assume tuxbrain  tuxbrain_away is asleeo. do you know ih he has pulled triger and made firm UBB order?02:24
phreakyhiHello all, I have a USB drive that when inserted causes a bad_pool_header error. I am running xp, sp3. Is there a way to reformat the USB drive in safe mode or some other way to recover usefulness from the drive again?05:40
larscwrong channel05:41
qi-bot[commit] kyak: MPlayer: add missing dependencies http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/859873909:55
kyakdvdk: "BTW that happens automatically if mplayer lists them under DEPENDS." - http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/859873910:25
kyakdvdk: though building the kernel might not be a good example, it IS working :)10:25
kyakwhen an application has no external libraries dependencies - it would build.10:26
kyakwhat's include directory is doing there? well, just examine the output of gcc -v in your system and see the paths search order10:28
bartbeskyak: I found out CartesianCardinalZap fails..10:28
bartbes:P10:28
bartbesit's the fault of the ben's lua build though10:29
bartbesblaming it on others is a very important part of my job10:29
bartbes;)10:29
kyakbartbes: yeah, i know.. wanted to mention it to you :)10:30
bartbesactually, the thing is, lua uses double as number type by default10:30
bartbesben's lua is patched (and rightfully so) to also have integers (int32, specifically)10:30
kyakbartbes: another thing - when i try to "nlove-run non-existant-game", it still creates the non-existant-game.love file10:30
bartbesso because setColor is defined to use integers it doesn't accept doubles anymore10:31
kyakthen i run it for the second time, it would show error screen10:31
bartbeskyak: with a 404 html page in it, by coincidence? :P10:31
kyaki think so :)10:31
bartbesI should check the return code of wget10:31
bartbessomething to do when I add a list (and preferably updating)10:32
kyakgood!10:32
bartbeshopefully I'll have some time later today10:33
kyakbartbes: btw, that fly-and-shoot game is awfully noisy. Can it be adjusted?10:35
bartbesyeah I was wondering the same thing..10:35
kyakis it respecting alsamixer?10:35
bartbesit should, it's using alsa for output10:36
bartbesbut then again, alsamixer has never done anything for me10:36
bartbesor well, I could mute, but that's all10:36
kyakyeah, alsamixer seems a little strange to me, too. Only has three vloume levels10:40
kyaki wonder how gmu is doing that10:40
bartbesI think it just sets its output volume manually10:47
bartbesits own output volume, that is10:47
dvdkkyak: morning.10:51
dvdkkyak: you're quick.  already had a patch for the Mplayer Makefile, but couldn't commit (merge conflict :)10:51
dvdkkyak: btw mplayer package name uses uppercase letters.  have to do 'feeds install MPlayer'.  is that normal?10:52
kyakit's intentional, cause it's name is MPlayer10:52
dvdkkyak: hmm, debian package names for example are all lowercased.10:52
dvdksame lowercase naming for most of the other .ipks!?10:53
dvdkalso directory name != package name is a little starteling at first10:53
dvdkbtw: looks like we have full libc headers with gcc-mips10:54
dvdkjust in the wrong directory.10:54
dvdk(but found and usable by gcc)10:54
dvdkmaybe cmake/autoconf might not like that, but otherwise that's fine10:54
kyakwell, feel free to try it and report where it is causing problems :)10:55
kyakat least you should've tried building a hello world program before saying that is it not fully working11:01
wolfspraulwow playing with the new image and it feels like improvements in every corner - nice!11:02
kyakanother person is complaining about missing libopcodes.so in previous image. Well, it least he found my bug report11:02
wolfsprauland knowing that we didn't achieve this with ugly hacks that will collapse after a few months is even better :-)11:03
dvdkwolfspraul: why are you so sure :)11:06
dvdkkyak: sorry about that (not trying gcc).  shouldn't write emails in a hurry.11:08
kyakwolfspraul: not quite. for example, this bug https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/8603 has a proposed path attached. But it hasn't got into openwrt feeds. So we use this hack: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/commit/5282f819237de47c92c67fa2759e9144d428b90a/11:09
kyakdvdk: it's ok! hard to keep an eye on the rapidly growing number of packages :)11:12
dvdkok, going off to be more productive :)  cu11:15
wolfspraulkyak: (dvdk in absence) I knew you guys would point me to ugly hacks :-)13:01
wolfspraulbut that's exactly why I feel good on that end, our priorities are correct13:02
wolfspraulwe will find cleaner solutions for those (temporary) hacks, for sure13:02
wpwrakrjeffries: yes, i think he has sent the order. didn't he mention it here ?14:45
wpwrakhmm, does anyone know some non-interactive Gerber editor ? i have a couple of lines in a footprint that i'd really love to get rid of, without changing the footprint14:51
wpwrak(of course, sed would be an option ...)14:51
wpwrakor a little perl script. hmm ...15:04
rjeffrieswpwrak David sent me email. irc logs are great. I wish there was a toll to search acroos ,ultiple lohs, e.g. most recent N days.15:08
rjeffrieswpwral said sed ,ight be a solution, That's eaht he sed15:08
wpwrakrjeffries: i thought the search did span days ?15:10
wpwrak(sed) :)15:10
rjeffriesif one is in a Ben application, is there a key to exit and retuen to launcher?15:15
rjeffriesI am in GMU do not know how to exit15:15
rjeffrieswell powering off then on works15:16
kristianpaulrjeffries: alt + enter (exit gmu)15:19
kristianpaulrjeffries: you should read this http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Applications15:19
rjeffrieskristianpaul okgounf that ESC escapes thedgclock15:21
kristianpaulokgounf?15:24
rjeffriesfound ;)15:24
rjeffriesnow in settings do not know how to escape\15:25
rjeffriesit's all good I am sure15:25
rjeffriesBen is like dungeons and dragons game: you are in a cave with many twisty passags15:25
kristianpaulhehe15:26
wpwrakrjeffries: let's say that the user experience could often take some inspirations from apple ;-)15:27
rjeffriespower button is my friend15:27
wpwrakone hidden benefit of having suffered through the windows experience may be under-exaggerated expectations :)15:28
rjeffriesI am glad I have a good shop. O need to take a few sips of whisky, and go to grunder and grind down a finger for the cute litt;e Ben keyboard. I hope it is blood-resistant15:29
rjeffrieswpwrak I sent email to UBB factory in Spain and told hime I'll order a 10-pack. Maybe I'll become hos USA distibutor, I dunno15:31
zrafarjeffries: I guess that there is some way to exit from applications and coming back to menu15:35
rjeffriesam in main GMU screen, would like to get to a shell, not clear how to do that15:37
wpwrakrjeffries: (grind down a finger) yeah, the keyboard could use some improving. layout and maybe also on the haptic side. i hope we'll get a chance to do that.15:37
wpwrakrjeffries: (ubb factory) you mean you asked the spanish pcb fab to produce 10 units for you ? or do you mean you ordered ten from tuxbrain-the-company ?15:38
rjeffrieswpwrak if there is ever a follow-on to Ben, my opinion is a new larger case will be essential15:38
rjeffriesTuxbrain I was trying to be funny, Davod now controls global UBB market15:39
rjeffrieswpwrak even I am not dumb enough to order PCBs from a fab in Europe\15:40
wpwrakrjeffries: (order from EU) oh, it's not impossible that you'd find competitive prices there. just that specific kind of transaction (10 units from somebody else's order) would be, erm, a little unusual :)15:41
rjeffriessmiles sure15:42
rjeffriesnext week or so maybe I learn what USA UBB might cost to mfg.15:42
wpwrakrjeffries: (larger case) maybe 1 mm more thickness to accommodate a proper USB host receptacle. i really like the current form factor. anything bigger would have to compete in an entirely different class of devices and R&D costs would explode.15:43
rjeffriesyou make a good point15:44
wpwrakrjeffries: (us cost) that would be great. the more data points we have, the better we're prepared to conduct future pcb orders.15:44
rjeffriesI am aware that case is a big hurdle15:44
wpwrakrjeffries: the main problem with the case at present is that we don't have an open process to make it15:45
rjeffriesI have a talented mechanical engineer friend who has done a number of plastic designs for production in China15:45
rjeffriesI understand totally15:45
rjeffriesMy thought i sto take scan data you created, as inout into a fresh design, new molds15:46
wpwrakrjeffries: all we can do is ask wolfgang to ask his business contacts in china to fab a bunch more, but we don't have the CAD data, we can't edit/modify it, and even if we could, changing the tooling would be expensive15:46
wpwrakrjeffries: yup. that would be a good start15:46
rjeffriesI understand all those issues. honest15:46
wpwrakrjeffries: if you look at my counterweight, that's basically how i designed it. started with the scan data for a first rough design, then optimized with trial and error15:47
rjeffriesI assume wolfspraul can have as many shells produced as he needs. or he may have 10K he already bought I dunno15:47
wpwrakrjeffries: (understand all issues) okay, just didn't know if you had followed that part15:47
rjeffriesI understand the need to not go head to head with other products but...15:48
wpwraki think he just buys complete devices. so one shell per device. maybe they could sell him bare shells, though.15:48
rjeffriesbut speaking ONLY for myself, and not having much time with Ben, it is like a Dancing Elephant15:48
rjeffriesit is amazing that it even exists. but it will never do the Tango15:49
wpwraki think there is still a lot we can do while staying close to the original ben design to make the device more useful15:49
rjeffrieswpwrak I do NOT disagree at all15:49
wpwrake.g., the screen should use more of the available space. that alone would make it quite a bit nicer, without needing a change in overall size15:50
rjeffriesbut the human interface of Ben is so constrained, it can IN MY OPINION never generate high volume sales15:50
wpwrakthe keyboard could be simplified and its haptics improved, again without increasing the size15:51
rjeffrieswpwrak you would be stuck with an akwark keyboard. and weak pointing capabilities15:51
wpwrakfor an nice keyboard, look at the oqo 01/01+. it's very clean and simple, yet also very small15:51
rjeffrieswpwrak I agree 1000 percent and realize that Ben is what it is. no problemo15:52
rjeffriesoQo was so sweet. still availabe?15:52
rjeffrieson a mainly UNRELATED note15:53
wpwrakironically, the OQO has a *higher* key density than the ben ;-)15:53
rjeffriesa parallel effort might involve a Nanonote derivaative that leverages the electronic design, with tweaks and additions,15:54
zrafarjeffries: wpwrak: so finally we go to the past in the future :) NN of 2020 should be like HP Jornada 728 (talking just about keyboard, touchscreen, and dimensions :) )15:54
rjeffriesand is packaged in a new very simple case that is targeted at control applications.15:54
wpwrak(oqo) i think the company went down. yuoi can probably still find them on ebay. dunno if the oqo 02 was any good. i have a 01 and a 01+. the batteries suck, of course, and one of the power supplies died, but the base unit is indestructible ;-)15:54
rjeffriesJornado was another sweet machine as was one of the Japanese devices that was similar\15:55
rjeffriestoday one would use a touch screen15:55
wpwrakzrafa: actually, my dream is the HP100LX ;-) a bit smaller than the jornada. clean and simple applications that put a lot of information on the screen. screen size was CGA.15:55
rjeffriesback to SONN (son of Nanonote)15:56
rjeffriesSONN(tm)  smiles15:56
wpwrakzrafa: (HP100LX) i would steal the keyboard from the oqo, though. the hp keyboard was excellent, but also needs more space15:56
rjeffriesno keyboard (use yiou fav USB keybaordm even on eof those roll-up thingies15:57
zrafawpwrak: ;-)15:57
zrafawpwrak: I ask if hp100lx was sh3 arch15:57
zrafaI wonder*15:57
wpwraknaw, i think a built-in keyboard is a good thing to have. that way, you can edit anywhere and all the time. not only when you have your gadget bag with you15:58
zrafawpwrak: my hp 660lx is sh315:58
rjeffriesis that same soc the Freerunner used??15:58
wpwrakzrafa: it was some 8088/8086. nec v20 or such. it ran DOS :)15:58
wpwrakrjeffries: the Openmoko phones used Samsung S3C, ARM15:59
zrafawpwrak: 8086 nice :)16:00
wpwrakrjeffries: (japanese machines) maybe you mean the Sharp Zaurus16:00
wpwrakzrafa: it even had a PCMCIA slot :)16:00
rjeffrieswpwrak did or did not we have a early Ben that Carlos team layed out that included USB host and 64MB ram? I am almost postibe qrty 10 were produced\16:00
rjeffriesZaurus yes. pretty cool16:00
wpwrakzrafa: you needed that for storage. i had a 5 MB Flash card. bloody expensive back then.16:00
wpwrakrjeffries: AVT2, yes16:01
rjeffrieswas it Kicad or not?16:01
wpwrakrjeffries: not sure, but i think it wasn't16:01
rjeffriesyeah prolly not16:02
rjeffriescontinuing16:02
rjeffriesthere could be a viable opportunity for a SONN that leverages a mor recnet Ingenic SOC, has USB Host, adds 2nd 8:10, and is NOT packaged in16:03
rjeffriesshiny black injection molded case16:03
rjeffriesdo we think Ingenic SOC is in some way more open than say any of several ARM based SOCs?16:05
wpwrakrjeffries: (more recent soc) that seems to be difficult. there are some slightly better chips than the 4720, but they're all a sourcing risk16:05
rjeffries WARNING rjeffries as exceeded his quota. shutting down his transmissions16:06
wpwrakrjeffries: and then there's a more advanced new chip but its long-term status is still uncertain and it it said to be very different from the chip we currently have16:06
rjeffries;)16:06
rjeffriesso current chip is a high volume product and as I recall costs under $316:07
wpwrakrjeffries: (no case) with the right numbers, everything is possible :)16:07
wpwrakrjeffries: (high volume) yes, don't know the cost16:07
rjeffrieswolfspraul has said around $3 for ingenic16:07
rjeffriesso is AVT2 a viable starting point?16:08
rjeffriesor maybe the SAKC but rip off FPGA. (I'd thibnk hard about an AVR to provide a bunch of digital and analog i/o16:09
rjeffriesgetting rid of built-in keyboard frees several GPIOs16:10
wpwraki think avt2 could be a starting point, yes16:10
wpwrak(kbd) no, go to the 4740, which is the same chip as the 4720 but in a different package16:10
wpwrakyou need to set the gpios aside for the keyboard anyway, even if you use a few boards without keyboard16:11
rjeffriesoh yes, Ben uses a package that is a bit difficult16:11
wpwrakone could say that ;-)16:11
rjeffriesoh i am headed a differen direction ;) assume external USB connected keyboard\16:12
rjeffriesgood huan interface cheap widely availble16:12
wpwrakand unpocketable16:13
kristianpaulwheeeaaa !!!, the laser cutter parts arived, now i must go and pickup then to the office :D16:14
kristianpaularrived*16:14
wpwrakkristianpaul: have fun ! :)16:14
rjeffrieswpwrak agree re not a pocket device16:21
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd: increased board size by 0.1 mm on each side and relaxed layout http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/640195e16:33
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: reduced ridiculously long AVDD trace and cleaned up the area http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/771926f16:33
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: more layout cleanup; improved CLKM test point http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/3c5145816:33
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: further crystal and RF ground cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1a790af16:33
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd: small cosmetic layout corrections http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/21f62a716:33
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben/Makefile: added targets for generating and reviewing Gerbers http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/208f97216:33
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd: cleanup for visualization http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/394bf3a16:33
bartbeswoah16:34
wpwrakthis will be fun to look at once we have brdhost :)16:34
wpwraks/host/hist/16:34
rjeffrieswpwrak once your atben and atUSB designs are locked down, do you know if/when they will be manufactured?17:00
wpwrakrjeffries: the plan is that sharism will manufacture them, probably as soon as possible17:11
wpwrakrjeffries: of course, whether this will happen or not can only be told in retrospective :)17:11
wpwrakgrmbl. one more dead mill enters the graveyard. i wonder what happened. those 35 mil things aren't supposed to break easily. well, it has had quite a long service life ...17:13
rohmoved too fast? vibrations?17:14
rohwpwrak: when you got stuff like 12mm endmills breaking... thats the point where one is lucky to have cameras and not to be in the same room as the mill17:15
wpwrakroh: (too fast) i did probably a hundred boards with these parameters. (vibrations) maybe the board got unstuck somehow. or maybe there was some transmission error that made the mill try to do something evil.17:18
rjeffriesroh what kind of cns mill do you have17:18
rjeffriescnc17:18
wpwrakroh: (12 mm) whee, weapons-grade shrapnel ;-)17:18
rohrjeffries: we got a chinese 3 axis machine. i think the taper is 'mk2' or so17:18
rohcan hold up to 16mm diameter17:19
rjeffriesroughly what does such a machine cost17:19
rohroughly 2.5 to 3.5keuro17:19
Action: rjeffries nods not cheap17:20
wpwrakthey sell this machine for around 10 kUSD in argentina. bastards.17:20
wpwrakroh: it's the X4, right ? 4th axis ?17:21
rjeffriesadmitting lack of knowledge: I assume the head moves, the stock is staionery?17:21
rohnope. syil bf2017:21
rohthe X4 wouldnt have manual control at all17:21
rohX4 doesnt have handwheels and also no 'manual z axis'17:22
wpwrakah, don't have prices for the bf2017:22
rohwpwrak: i guess its already too old17:22
rjeffriesheavy duty:17:24
rjeffrieshttps://www.tormach.com/document_library/Datasheets/DS31095_PCNC1100.pdf17:24
rohthe important part is to have proper spindles and such. controllers, motors.. that can be changed easily. precision isnt gained afterwards17:24
rohrjeffries: we can mill steel and such. up to the size of 2 'bricks'17:25
rohits all in inch. too lazy to redo the math for real-world comparisons17:25
rjeffriesroh besides making MM cases what other work does your shop do17:25
rohbut it seems bigger than ours17:25
rohrjeffries: not much. its a hackspace, so its mostly hobbyist work17:26
rohrjeffries: m21.hyte.de17:26
rjeffriesok thx17:27
rjeffriesdecent link here: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/43633-opti_bf_20_cnc_kit.html17:27
rjeffriesroh nice site Google should get a Nobel peace price for providing translation service it rocks17:29
rohrjeffries: careful. the bf20 seems to be the chinese copy of a german machine which is several times as expensive ;)17:30
rjeffriesworks for me17:31
rohrjeffries: https://m21.hyte.de/attachment/wiki/RepStrap/repstrap_total.jpg there is a full picture17:31
Action: kristianpaul fiting the sheets17:34
kristianpauldammit is not well aligned..17:37
kristianpaulthe 4 holes on PCB with acrylic sheet, after put the side with the VGA output..17:38
wpwrakkristianpaul: v2 will be better ;-)17:38
kristianpaulhmm i'm not going to make a case fab here..17:39
kristianpaulthats why we have roh :-)17:39
wpwrakroh: your competition has just auto-eliminated itself :)17:39
kristianpauli just need a case as i have a mm1 "performance" in two moths17:40
wpwrakkristianpaul: is the misalignment something you can work around ?17:40
rohwpwrak: always good ;)17:41
kristianpaulwpwrak: seems is just one axis17:41
kristianpaulsure17:41
rohkristianpaul: i checked.. shipping to columbia from here with <=2kg is about 14E17:41
kristianpauli have a milling tool17:41
rohnot insured17:41
kristianpaul:-(17:41
kristianpauli'll use glue :D17:42
kristianpaulwpwrak: i'll comparelater misalignment with cad file, just in case..17:42
kristianpaulcompare later**17:43
rohin what way is it misaligned?17:44
kristianpaullets said VGA sideis Y axis and LAN X17:46
kristianpaulso if you fit the board with Y17:46
kristianpaulthe holes are misaligned with respect that axis17:46
kristianpaul2-3 mm from it should be17:47
rohuh17:47
kristianpaul1-2mm~17:47
kristianpaul:p17:47
rohis the laser uncalibrated?17:48
rohas in total dimension17:48
rohs17:48
kristianpauli dunno i just send the cad, pay, choosed color, and got the parts back today17:49
kristianpaulhmm, once  you fit the side-plate seems dagerous try remove it..17:50
kristianpaulahh wait !!17:51
rjeffriesit wpu;d be cool to use a camera attached to MM as input, so e.g. movments on dancefloor feed back and affect the graphn display in a VJ context17:51
kristianpaulthe cover plate is not aligned in all directions..17:52
kristianpaulrjeffries: it is posible, you can attach a composite out from a vide camera17:52
rjeffrieswhat is approx size of MM enclosure I have no idea but think it is rather compact??17:53
kristianpaullike an apple mini i can imagine..17:54
kristianpaulmay be a bit bigger than that17:54
rjeffriesthis is clever: http://reflectionof.me/usb-flash-drives-on-cardboard17:55
Action: kristianpaul learn how to proper move the acrylic to fit in once try17:56
kristianpaulgood, is ready just the mm1 board not inside :p17:59
mirko_kyak: i think i got the issue with qt4 / nanomap - just ping me if you're around...18:08
kristianpaulmirko: how are you rfm12b tests going?18:19
rjeffriesroh so you may know Joachim Steiger? ')18:21
roh? thats me18:23
kristianpaulah, board is suspended...18:27
kristianpaulnow holes seems to be aligned18:27
kristianpaulok, now i may consider compete with roh ;-)18:32
Action: kristianpaul taking pics18:38
rjeffriesis this the HopeRF thingie? 10:17 <kristianpaul> mirko: how are you rfm12b tests going?18:51
Action: kristianpaul ran llgal19:01
kristianpaulHey everybody !! http://kristianpaul.org/gallery/mm1%20case/19:06
kristianpaulplease blame now ;-)19:07
kristianpaulThats smoke color19:18
kristianpaulI was close to choose trapartent acrlic but..19:18
tuxbrain_awaysome a prety good pics :),19:20
zrafakristianpaul: you did that???!!!!19:22
kristianpaulzrafa: no no19:23
kristianpaulzrafa: is roh design19:23
kristianpauli just pay to be cutted :-)19:23
zrafanice! ;919:24
zrafakristianpaul: ^19:24
zrafa;)19:24
tuxbrain_awayhow much it cost to you?19:24
kristianpaulCHEAPP !!!19:26
kristianpaul7usd material + cut19:27
kristianpaul4.5usd shipping19:27
kristianpaulThats why i took the risk19:27
kristianpauland in two days i got the thing :-)19:27
tuxbrain_awaywow!!!19:27
kristianpaulyeah19:28
tuxbrain_awayyes you can be a very heavy roh competitor :)19:28
kristianpauli said when i quoute first time19:28
kristianpaulhehe19:28
zrafakristianpaul: where did they do that?19:28
kristianpaulzrafa: a friend in bogota told about a company called dataprint, and then i write then19:29
zrafakristianpaul: and dataprint is from botoga?19:29
kristianpaulzrafa: yes19:29
zrafanice ;)19:29
kristianpaulzrafa: http://dataprint.webs.com/19:30
kristianpaulah, sorry 10usd material + cut19:39
kristianpaulalso they told i may get two cases from same sheet, but i dint have more money to try..19:40
kristianpaulI got my case, i'm happy :-)19:40
kristianpaulroh: i need the buttons !!19:46
kristianpaulbut damn expesive is bring then..19:46
rohthe buttons are just more acryllic19:47
roh0.5mm and 1.0mm19:48
rohthe 1.0mm is a 12mm diameter circle19:48
rohthe 0.5 is something like 7.9mm diameter19:48
rohthe 1.0mm piece keeps the button from falling out, the 0.5mm one makes it stand out of the front a bit19:49
tuxbrain_away130 UBB already preordered, 270¬ , we have past halfway to achiev the 500¬ mark to recover invest :)19:58
tuxbrain_awaymailing to NN costumer not sended yet, hurry up guys I think there is hungry on NN hacking :)19:59
kristianpaulgood :-)19:59
mstevenstuxbrain_away: what are you selling?20:00
kristianpaulroh: do you have cad designs for the buttons?20:00
kristianpaulMay be i can extrude the circle and print it here20:00
rohkristianpaul: not really. just 2 circles20:01
tuxbrain_awaymstevens: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/UBB20:01
kristianpaulroh: ah, you alreadt toldme the diameter, good :-)20:01
rohkristianpaul: the thickness of the circles needs to be exact. atleast thats what i learnt20:01
rohif its 10% off the buttons will either wobble or jam20:02
tuxbrain_awaymstevens: here https://www.tuxbrain.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=188020:02
rohatleast if the 1mm thick, 12mm diameter one20:02
mstevensaah I'm more a software person20:02
tuxbrain_awaymstevens: well we need also people working in the software stack of 8:10 interacction :)20:04
rohn8 guys. pizza, then bar for me now20:04
kristianpaulnite20:07
qwebirc89800hi20:32
Fusinrehi20:33
kristianpaulhello20:33
Action: Fusin has a prob with ben20:33
kristianpaulprob?20:33
kristianpaulprobe?20:34
Fusinyep, buyed one20:34
Fusinproblem20:34
Fusinconnected to pc for loading battery20:34
Fusinbattery seems full20:34
Fusinbut ben doesnt boot :(20:34
Fusinare they delivered without OS in side?20:35
kristianpaulno20:36
kristianpaulhow long you keep pushed poweron button?20:37
Fusinnearly 5 sec20:38
Fusineven screen doesnt flash20:38
Fusinbut heared little noise in earphone20:38
Fusinso i guess it powered up20:39
Fusinbut no boot20:39
kristianpaulok, can you try same without battery and just power from usb?20:39
Fusini'l try20:39
kristianpaulyou also should try lsusb and share the result with us20:39
Fusindoesnt boot20:40
kristianpaullsusb?20:40
Fusinbut windows seems to discover the tool20:40
Fusinno linux at hands atm20:40
kristianpaulhmm20:40
kristianpaulwell you need a linux system or a sd card to flash your ben20:41
Fusini guess, i have to install a linux on laptop first, eh?20:41
kristianpaulideally yes..20:41
kristianpaulBut dont scare, you Ben should be okay, i cant be bricked easilly20:42
mirkokyak: can you confirm the very first created Makefile ($(TOPDIR)/Makefile) is correct bur further ones get wrong pathes, variables,etc.?20:45
mirko...but _only_ further ones...20:45
wpwrakkristianpaul: (mm1 case) very pretty !20:56
wpwraktuxbrain_away: (130 UBB) good !20:56
Fusinok, so i will try with an linux laptop again21:01
Fusintomorow :D21:01
Fusinoh, one more question: how long does ben run with one charge of battery?21:02
Action: Fusin wants to use it as replacement for my stolen zaurus (PDA)21:03
kristianpaulFusin:http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Battery_Monitoring22:37
kristianpaulwpwrak: not so prety after a home made hole to let the jtag-serial cable to pass inside the case22:39
wpwrakkristianpaul: the term "hacker" isn't meant to be used quite so literally ;-)22:41
ormrisHi all22:53
ormrisAnyone had success reflashing?22:53
kristianpaulsure :-)22:53
kristianpaulIt still hope ;-)22:53
ormrisIs usbboot mode success random or is there some method to it?22:54
kristianpaulIf in your method you use the rubber carbon thing, it  should improve sucess22:54
ormrisOK22:55
kristianpaulWhat are you using now?22:55
xMffI used to have big troubles with my dell desktop at work22:55
xMffnothing would work22:55
ormrisFoil.22:55
xMffwith a thinkpad laptop it worked right away22:55
ormrisI lost the button.22:56
xMffso it heavily depends on the usb host hardware / drivers it seems22:56
kristianpaulxMff: hmm22:56
kristianpaulormris: i see22:56
kristianpaulormris: how many hands do you have? ;-)22:57
ormrisTwo.22:57
ormrisBut I can type with one. :)22:57
xMffcould be worse22:57
kristianpaulormris: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/USB_BOOT_mode i guess you read this, but i want to make sure first22:57
ormrisI did.22:58
kristianpaulI said because i hard press the ruber then u at same time, but well22:58
kristianpaulormris: can you tell us the current steps u are following to usboot your ben¡22:58
kristianpaul?22:58
ormrisI alternate between POWER+U and shorting the usbboot pins.22:59
ormrisWhen I short I wait for the device to discharge.22:59
ormrisThen plug it in.22:59
ormrisI use the provided cable directly to the computer.23:00
kristianpaulI think you can just press u and and short usbboot pinds then plug the usb cord23:00
kristianpaulIt should work23:00
ormrisI'll go and try it now.23:00
ormrisThanks!23:01
kristianpaulsure do it, i'll be here for a while23:01
kristianpaulu and short at the same time23:01
kristianpauls/at/and23:01
tuxbrain_awayisn't short enough?23:10
ormris*sigh* I didn't work.23:20
ormrisThe screen stays black but my computer doesn't register the device.23:20
kristianpaulcalm down23:20
ormriss/I/It/g :)23:22
kristianpaulCan you try somthing else more trusty than the foil?23:22
xMffpaperclip worked good here23:23
ormrisI'll try that.23:23
wpwrakbtw, jus reset+U didn't work ?23:36
ormrisIt worked once or twice, but not after that.23:37
wpwraki.e., remove battery, disconnect USB, wait 20 seconds, press and hold down U, connect USB while still holding U, then release U. check on the PC if the ben shows up. (as xxxx:4740, it think)23:37
wpwrakhmm, odd23:37
ormrisTryed that several times.23:37
wpwrakalright, then it's inescapably suckish hardware button time23:42
ormriswpwrak: Shorting the pins is hard.23:43
kristianpaulwpwrak: heekspython added some nice example for parametric figures from rectangles to gears, you should look later, may be can help you for the at* cases23:50
wpwrakormris: yeah. that's something that has to change in the next nanonote design. it's a bit surprising that the issue comes up so often, but well, that's the way it is.23:51
kristianpaulwpwrak: btw do you use heekscnc to control your cnc?23:51
bartbeshey wolfspraul23:51
wpwrakkristianpaul: i used heeks{cad,cnc,python} to make the counterweight23:51
wpwrakkristianpaul: for PCBs, i have my own set of tools23:51
kristianpaulsure sure (PCB)23:52
kristianpaulBut a parametric case could be an option...23:52
kristianpaulwolfspraul: http://kristianpaul.org/gallery/mm1%20case/ 15usd with shipping :D23:54
kristianpaulmorning23:54
wpwrak(case) yup. my tools are not really for 3D. another option could be OpenSCAD. that's even more script-oriented.23:54
kristianpaulI bet more for heekscad, at lest are people using it for CNC23:56
kristianpaulWhen you have a stable board version i'll try again a design, but this time parametric, i already saw the rectangle example and seems easy to modify23:57
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