#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2011-02-06

jlmokoping tuxbrain05:01
jlmokotuxbrain, a lot of people in the stand or  you are a boot05:03
wpwrakseems that they really should step up security at the rage troll clinic ;-)06:09
tuxbrainfosdemhey guys!!!!06:12
tuxbrainfosdema cuestion06:12
tuxbrainfosdemhas NN an I2C pads anywhere?06:13
Ornotermestuxbrain: I²C pins is used by the keyboard06:14
wpwraktuxbrain: PD23/I2C_SDA = KEYIN6, PD24/I2C_SCK (sp!) = KEYIN706:15
tuxbrainfosdemoooooh :( yes I remember06:19
wpwraktuxbrain: so you didn't bring the schematics printed on a nice A1 poster ? tz tz ...06:22
tuxbrainfosdemheheheh we barelly have time to print some leaflets :P06:26
wpwraksucks that they spring those conferences as a surprise at you, doesn't it ? ;-)06:29
tuxbrainfosdem I have saw the "navigation" addon of openmoko is small enough to fit on NN, or in another SD06:29
wpwrakanyway, how is it going ? lots of people admiring the goodies you brought ?06:30
tuxbrainfosdemyes a lot!! also some sales :) a promising contacts :)06:30
wpwrakgreat !06:32
tuxbrainfosdemthe designer of that tiny board sais its posible to make it work only with two free gpios, so maybe we can have another addon card on the way :P06:43
wpwrakheh, why not :)06:53
kyakxMff: gettext-full still fails to build. It seems that the suggested patch is not there...06:53
kyak(bug #8413)06:58
tuxbrainfosdemsure wolfspraul will love that one: we have sell 5 units to Valladolid university to use it to study computer architecture :)07:45
tuxbrainfosdemI have here by myside a guy that works on atmel any question for him?07:48
wolfspraultuxbrainfosdem: that's great news [university]07:49
tuxbrainfosdemwolfspraul: yeah I know , I pretty happy on the result on fordem, my NN has the fingerprits of thousand of hands :)07:52
kristianpaulfosdem ! :-)08:27
kristianpaultuxbrainfosdem: ask him for a atmel touch screen that fit on current nanonote LCM and can re-use the on on-board serial por for comunications08:28
kristianpaulcomputer architecture <-- You should also recomend buy some other MM1 later :-)08:29
wolfspraultuxbrainfosdem: true! milkymist one is _the_ way to study computer architecture08:29
kristianpaulI have a friend is interested in give the "operating system" course with milkymist and rtems ;-)08:30
kristianpaul"Linux is to complex for me he saids"08:30
kristianpaulwpwrak: I think is false (yday question)08:31
kristianpaulsorry i was out for party so no time for answer yday08:32
tuxbrainfosdemkristianpaul: he will redirect me to a company that maybe is interested to work with us with our volume :), when we reach the 100000 units year we can then talk to them directly :)08:45
tuxbrainfosdemif another visitor askme if it has wifi I will scream....09:20
Jay7tuxbrainfosdem: hehe09:21
Action: Jay7 have asked about wifi/usb host on Chaos Constructions by every visitor09:21
Jay7s/have/was/ may be..09:21
tuxbrainfosdemwell I'm "lucky" then, just the 96% of them :),09:22
Jay7you have more visitors, I'm sure :)09:22
tuxbrainfosdemyes this is madnes, I have barelly no voice now09:23
kristianpaultuxbrainfosdem: actualli i think,  there is a missing space for a chip that can handle i2c, so phisically and now that tiny boards are getting common around here09:31
kristianpaulwait for a pic plus sch09:31
kristianpauljust a minute09:31
kristianpaultuxbrainfosdem: you will said, NO WIFI, is SLOW FII09:31
kristianpaultuxbrainfosdem: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kristianpaul/I2C%20Nanonote.JPG09:38
wolfspraultuxbrainfosdem: how about Milkymist One? any leads/interested people? any sales?09:46
tuxbrainfosdemwolfspraul: mm1, interest yes , sales not (yet) but the speech of sebastien has rise a lot of heads up , and also the demo we have done with the cam , but well you know there is not much VJ arround here :)09:57
tuxbrainfosdemkristianpaul: slowfii, part of my voice is out splaining that :)09:58
tuxbrainfosdemwell guys time to leave, see you tomorow10:01
xMffkyak: I'll look into it11:16
kyakxMff: thanks.. another question - there are "-liconv" in TARGET_LDFLAGS for some packages. For some reason, this must be left11:18
kyakdo you think it's ok, or maybe some problem in autoconf of that packages?11:19
xMffits okay for now. I'll clean that up in the future11:19
xMffsome of the flags are coming from pkg-config11:20
kyakok, good11:21
xMffI thought about adding "-liconv" to ICONV_LDFLAGS eventually but I am not sure yet11:21
xMffI'm quite sure it will break some obscure stuff :)11:21
kyakyeah, at first i thought -liconv is already in ICONV_LDFLAGS, but then i saw inside of nls.mk that it isn't11:22
kyakso far i'm "converting" packages to $(ICONV_..) notation just fine.. apart from this gettext problem11:23
qwebirc34003hello everyone, can anyone tell me how to install Ben NanoNote's modified OpenWRT in QEMU or VMWare?11:24
xMffqwebirc34003: I suppose you can just checkout git and build vdi/vmdk images11:25
kristianpaulbut the arch will be x86 right?11:25
qwebirc34003Are there any special git repos for building images?11:26
kyakxMff: luckily, "-liconv" is the same for libiconv-full and libiconv-stub.. it won't be the same for -lncursesw and -lncurses (if the switchable solution is going to be implemented for ncurses/ncursesw)11:26
xMffthere are also mips and arm qemu targets11:26
xMffboth big and low endian11:26
xMffqwebirc34003: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-xburst/source/help/11:27
rohheh. JDH just archieved complete plonk on my side. what a idiot.11:28
kyakqwebirc34003: there was successful qemu runs.. see here http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-November/006186.html11:28
kyakqwebirc34003: and here's the screenshot http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/QEMU.png :)11:29
rohgiven my usually high tolerance for trollt.. this one got me. if i would be asked to ban him somewhere i wouldnt hesitate.11:29
kristianpaulroh: can you sell all kit for mm1 case expect the crylic part?, plus shipping to colombia, it dont want in here in next 5 days, so i can wait some weeks11:30
rohkristianpaul: huh?11:31
kristianpaulI'll try source locally laser cuted parts with this local company as see the quality, afaik they just have white-like acrylic11:31
kristianpauls/all/me a11:32
rohi dont understand. you mean the bag with the screws and the shielding sheet?11:32
rohfor another laser machine you will need to touch the cad data i guess.11:32
rohdiffrent tolerances and such11:32
qwebirc34003xburst is the processor type, right? so I will have to ./configure && make?11:32
kyakxMff: oh, another thing i wanted to ask.. why are those stub libs get built anyway, even if BUILD_NLS is set?11:33
qwebirc34003kyak: doesn't it require autoconf? I'm on a mac and version of autoconf doesn't match.11:33
kyakxMff: i'm pretty sure they are not used by dependencies nor by .config11:34
kristianpaulroh: ok, i'll better send it to manufacture (anyway is just 10USd for all) and wait for results before ask you for the others parts to you11:34
kyakqwebirc34003: i don't know a thing about mac, sorry. I guess you can't build openwrt toolchain there11:35
qwebirc34003ok then. bye everyone!11:35
rohkristianpaul: the work to send out a package with acryllic istnt bigger than without.11:35
kristianpaulroh: So you want to mean, that all measurements are fixed to work with the mechanical setup from your CNC and is probably need more work if the laser cutter is changed?11:36
rohusing white acryllic or any regular color is also quite easy11:36
rohyes. i havent seen 2 machine wich use the same preprocessed cad data11:37
rohand since the laser works directly on the dxf its that what i modify to fit11:37
rohe.g. on this machine i know it takes about 0.1mm on each side of the line away (0.2mm wide 'cuts') and the cuts arent '90°11:38
xMffkyak: since the stubs result in no .ipk, I can't add a DEPENDS:= to force them to build, the only way is a build depends spec11:38
rohwhats the problem with sending packages?11:38
xMffkyak: problem is, at the time the package metadata is gathered, there is no access to .config vars, therefore I cannot make it conditional... at least I thought so11:38
xMffkyak: I've a diff you can try...11:38
xMffkyak: no actually it is already conditional... seems to not work :)11:40
kristianpaulroh: Is this what you're saying already documented somwhere, or can be considered as a soemthing all people wich drive cnc/laser cutter stuff already, know, i just wondering a future MM1 distributor want to make his own case using our copyleft plans, will sadly start over again design if he want make the case locally11:40
kristianpaulAnyway i'll let this people try out, they confirmed yday they can do it, so lets see what "moster" case came out ;-)11:41
kyakxMff: it's not a problem, just made we wonder why this happens11:41
xMffkyak: oh btw, do you know whether ncurses and ncrusesw provide identical apis?11:42
kyakncursesw is fully compatible with ncurses as i know11:42
xMffbut ...w is a superset?11:42
xMffthat might be problematic for some packages expecting wide char functions11:43
rohkristianpaul: its machine dependant. so it makes no sense documenting the machine i have here when the next one can be different11:43
rohkristianpaul: copyleft just means that one can make derivated works. that doesnt mean that its no work ;)11:43
kristianpaulroh: yes, sure11:44
kyakxMff: such packages should be linked with -lncursesw11:44
kristianpaulDerivative is okay, i'll ask this local company for all this you already pointed me11:44
kristianpaulMay be they already derivate it to fit with his machine specs, who knows..11:45
kyakxMff: http://invisible-island.net/ncurses/ncurses.faq.html11:46
kyak"The normal ncurses libraries support 8-bit characters. The ncurses library can also be configured (--enable-widec) to support wide-characters (for instance Unicode and the UTF-8 encoding). The corresponding wide-character..11:46
kyak..ncursesw libraries are source-compatible with the normal applications. That is, applications must be compiled and linked against the ncursesw library."11:46
kristianpaulroh: No work in copying a manufacuring a desing is something i would expect, i remenber adam did recomendations to make Werner wpan board posible to be manufacture in most places round word,  at least reduce marging to avoid problems11:48
rohkristianpaul: sure. thats what cad data are for. lasers are 'special' there since you usually directly laser the11:49
roh'cad files' and not preprocess for the machine and store to another format11:50
xMffkyak: hm ok, wonder whats the point in having a non-wide ncurses at all11:50
kyakxMff: dunno.. if you are talking about openwrt, perhaps it's there for size/speed optimization11:51
xMffkyak: the diff is 131440B vs. 146815B ... hardly worth the overhead11:51
kristianpaulroh: I'll keep that in mind from now, Thanks for share you experience on this topic !11:52
xMffkyak: oh, I added your patch btw.11:52
kyakxMff: great!11:53
rohkristianpaul: i also got some more files which fo 'batches'11:53
roh4 times the side panels11:53
rohor 2 sets of top/bottom11:54
rohfits on one 32x36cm sheet11:54
kristianpaul 30 cms x 27 cms here,11:55
kristianpauland they said just one will  fit, so may be i can do more11:55
kyakxMff: btw, do you have this "ERROR: please fix package/feeds/desktop/tint2/Makefile"?11:58
xMfflet's see11:58
kyakcool, i'm not alone :)11:59
xMffin such cases you can run  TOPDIR=`pwd` make -C feeds/desktop/apps/tint2/ V=99 DUMP=111:59
xMffthis allows to debug the makefile11:59
xMffleads to  Makefile:25: /home/jow/devel/openwrt/trunk/include/cmake.mk: No such file or directory12:00
kyakoh, nice hint!12:00
xMffwe added cmake support recently12:02
xMffI'll backport it shortly12:02
kyakinteresting! i remember some packages in qi's openwrt-packages that already use cmake12:03
xMffit basically provides better default templates12:04
xMffand tint2 started to use it12:04
kyakyeah, this would help avoid manual construction of CMAKE_FLAGS in Makefiles.12:07
xMffthe cmake stuff is now merged to backfire12:19
xMfftint2 should work now after update12:19
wpwraktuxbrain: you can say "802.11 was yesterday. we have 802.15.4." 802.15.4 > 802.11, so it must be better :-)12:28
rohwpwrak: dont go there12:29
roh802.15.4 will not ever replace 802.1112:29
kyakxMff: thanks!12:37
kristianpaulnever said never ;-)12:52
rohkristianpaul: sometimes you can. simply by comparing technologies.13:00
xMffkyak: I think I'll test if everything works with just ncursesw, if this proves successful we'll probably ditch the non-wide curses and just keep the wide on around, maybe with a flag to disable wide support13:15
xMffkyak: it'll be just ncurses then13:16
xMffmight take a few days though13:16
B_LizzardHey tuxbrain, how's FOSDEM?13:24
kyakxMff: it could work, but i think the best would be to have ncursesw and symlinks to ncurses13:26
kyakxMff: btw, to really use wide ncurses, it is necessary to have uclibc built with locale support13:27
kyakxMff: what i'm afraid of in your suggestion that some apps may detect the ncurses (but not won't know that it is in fact ncursesw), and then disable their wide features13:29
xMffkyak: that why I want to do a survey first13:30
qwebirc51242hello everyone again13:47
qwebirc51242I have failed to install xburst-openwrt in QEMU13:47
qwebirc51242can anyone please send me the compiled image to use with QEMU? I don't have linux on my mac.13:48
xMffqwebirc51242: it is possible to compile openwrt on os x13:50
qwebirc51242but how? it requests filetools as far as i can remember and I don't have that in MacPorts repository.13:51
qwebirc51242Or I was just cloning a wrong image from git?13:51
qwebirc51242I have tried the ubi image in qemu-system-mipsel but it says qemu: Could not load MIPS bios 'mipsel_bios.bin', and no -kernel argument was specified13:53
xMffmacports has fileutils afaik13:54
xMffah, "fileutils" == "gcp"13:57
xMffthat is provided by the "coreutils" macport13:57
qwebirc51242can you point me at the right git url to have the image?13:58
xMff(17:26:27) xMff: qwebirc34003: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-xburst/source/help/13:59
qwebirc51242and some more instructions, please? I'm really new to system programming, etc.13:59
xMffapplies to the qi-hardware tree as well, the sources differ though14:00
qwebirc51242so I need to get coreutils macport and all other things that make asks for?14:00
qwebirc51242and which qemu to use?14:00
xMffthat I don't know14:00
qwebirc51242mipsel or x86?14:00
xMffah, well14:01
xMffyou can build the "malta" target which is for qemu-mips14:01
xMffyou can build generic x86 and run that on qemu x8614:01
qwebirc51242err.... how to choose the target?14:02
xMffin make menuconfig14:02
xMffthere is also a versatile target which can be used with qemu-arm14:02
qwebirc51242is make menuconfig a command or what? I'm a noob...14:03
xMffwait a moment14:03
qwebirc51242$ make menuconfig make: *** No rule to make target `menuconfig'.  Stop. //doesn't work :(14:04
qwebirc51242oh, I found out, I need to do that in the openwrt sources dir14:05
wpwrakroh: (802.15.4 > 802.11) hey, that's how marketing works ! ;-)14:18
wpwrakkristianpaul, roh: offsetting the toolpath by the beam radius really ought to be part of the cad-to-machine interface. this is no different from mills.14:21
rohwpwrak: thats how stupid works. sorry.. i have no fun left for marketing goons14:34
rohwpwrak: mills get pre-processed toolpaths in different formats14:35
rohe.g. gcode14:35
rohwpwrak: or to be precise: marketing goons which are too clueless and thus lie without understanding that they do.14:39
wpwrakroh: (gcode) yup. so the tool/beam size would be considered when generating the gcode. after all, the design of the part itself doesn't change just because you or your factory use(s) a different tool.14:39
rohwpwrak: true. but e.g. tool diameter is something which you select on running the job depending on availability and material.14:40
wpwrakroh: (801.11/15) irony detector malfunctioning today ? ;-)14:40
roheven if the model does work for plastic and metal you would use different milling bits, cutting speeds and thus also toolpath14:41
rohyou know about high-speed milling? if you mill too slow, the bit breaks.14:41
wpwrakroh: (tool) exactly. these are changes you make in toolpath generation. so the cad design per se stays the same.14:41
rohits a weird graph and only if you cut fast and deep enough, but not too fast and too deep it works.14:41
rohthe cad file is a cad file atm. so no real diff from the theoretical model. but to make it work the laser needs to remove the 0.1mm on all sides or it will not fit in reality14:43
kristianpaulyay, finally heekscad segfault is gone..14:45
rohkristianpaul: which one? ;)14:46
kristianpaulroh: hehe, the one after ./heekscad ;-)14:47
rohhavent had that yet14:47
kristianpauli had it for long time, just because i was tracking the last revision14:48
kristianpaulso i decied stay in some old point for some months  until today14:48
rohah. i do the builds quite unregulary and mostly pick 'more stable' timeframes14:48
wpwrakroh: (0.1 mm) tool path offset. yes, that's part of toolpath generation. your cad should do this automatically. you enter the model and the tool characteristics, then it generates the toolpath.14:49
wpwrakroh: e.g., heekscad has all this.14:49
Action: kristianpaul :D14:49
rohwpwrak: sure. still it will only fit for one machine in general. the next one could have different axis relations14:50
wpwrakalas, kicad doesn't. but then i have cameo for such things, which i actually like much better than fiddling with things in a gui :)14:50
wpwrakroh: x:y != 1:1 ? ouch !14:50
rohwpwrak: gcode often has machine specific tool options. also you could have more axis.. or even less than 314:51
roheven the direction of axis seems to be variable14:51
rohalso feed and spindlespeed is cutter dependant.  imagine you have one with 4 flutes and you have a gcode file for 2 flutes14:52
rohalso clamping down workpieces is an issue.14:55
rohas you need to move the mill around the clamps and they could be somewhere else or bigger/smaller on the next machine14:55
rohi have some gcode file i could release for the case. but it has moves for how i clamped it down in there. so i am not sure it will help anybody14:56
wpwrakroh: yes, i agree with all this. but this is all part of the toolpath generation. why would your cad model have to change when you generate a toolpath for a different machine ?15:02
kristianpaulIt should15:02
rohwpwrak: it shouldnt. only on lasering its an issue since the fileformat is mostly the same15:03
rohwpwrak: atleast on our small machine15:03
rohbigger ones also use more complex cam and then maybe even gcode or so15:04
wpwrakah, your laser uses dxf directly ?15:04
rohyes. atleast the control sw15:04
kristianpauldirectly?? wow15:04
rohits a chinese win32 app which imports dxf (besides other stuff)15:05
rohthe native format is proprietary.15:05
rohwe only use dxf as 'vector input'15:05
kristianpaulah wait, but it does some processing before start cutting, or it just read and execute it on the fly?15:06
wpwrakroh: and the control doesn't know how to compensate for the beam size. i see. okay, but that's a bug then, not a feature ;-)15:07
rohi think there is minimal processing happeningm but thats mostly parsing and translating. not really any moving of lines or so15:07
rohwpwrak: it doesnt even have a clue what the beamsize is;)15:07
wpwrakroh: the operation isn't too hard. you may want to have a look at http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/cae-tools/source/tree/master/cameo15:08
kristianpaulpropiertay gcode? or just undocumented M and G codes ?15:08
wpwrakroh: here's a usage example: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/atusb/cam/mkmk15:08
rohwpwrak: tool diameter offsets is the 'most easy' possibility. think 3d and different millhead types15:09
wpwrakroh: so far, i only have gerber, excellon, gnuplot input, and gnuplot output. (with an external gnuplot to rml-1 converter)15:09
rohwpwrak: e.g. the angle on the end of the mill. etc. not everything is a 'endmill' which looks like a small round block15:10
wpwrakroh: (3D) so your 3D mill also has a dysfunctional interface ? not only your laser cutter ?15:10
rohwpwrak: no. still gcode IS machine dependant.15:10
wpwrakroh: for example, heekscad knows about tool sizes, shapes, etc.15:11
wpwrakroh: (gcode) of course it is15:11
rohthink more than 3 axis. there are LOTS of possible ways to move something as soon as you have some angles of freedom15:11
wpwrakroh: that's why gcode is not a cad model exchange format ;-)15:11
rohheekscad is the first serious attempt to 'cam' in the opensource world15:11
rohiges, step are most usable15:12
wpwrakroh: (> 3 axes) alright. then you need something more powerful than heekscad.15:12
rohatleast from my perspective (when it comes to 3d)15:12
rohfor 2d i stay with dxf for now. works best, has wide support.15:12
wpwrakroh: but does kristianpaul need a 4-axis mill for the mm1 case ? that's what we were discussing15:12
rohsvg generates too many fuckups in my experience. (scaling issues, no serious tools for ordering and editing)15:13
rohi dont know how to mill a mm1 case atm. the slots would need to become longer since you cant mill as rectangular as you can laser easily ;)15:13
rohif you dont want to use different millheads and 'get out the corners'15:13
wpwrakroh: (slots) you'd mill into the corner15:14
kristianpaulactually the guys from wich i get quoute have a laser cutter15:14
rohwpwrak: sure. just looks different and would make it another cad model.15:14
rohslots with round corners15:14
rohi even have used 3.1mm wide slots on some cases where the side panels were from thicker acryllic15:15
rohthe stuff i get from evonik (former degussa) has >10% thickness tolerance15:15
qwebirc51242OK, thanks everyone for help, bye!15:15
Action: qwebirc51242 compiles openwrt for x8615:15
wpwrakkristianpaul: i think roh is trying to say is that his toolpath generation process lacks proper tool size compensation. he "fixed" this by tweaking the model, which not is machine-specific and thus not really portable. he realizes that this is not good, but tries to defend it anyway ;-)15:16
kristianpaulwpwrak: yes, i understand15:16
rohwpwrak: nope. i am just saying that dxf doesnt say anything about toolsizes or tolerances.15:17
kristianpaultweak model is bad for me :(15:17
wpwrakroh: also the cutting into corners is part of the toolpath generation. you need to tell the toolpath generator where you want this to happen, though.15:17
wpwrakroh: the less dxf says about the machining process, the better ;-)15:17
kristianpauloh please roh !!15:18
rohsure. would be nice to have that information somewhere. if it had i would be making the slots 3.1 and defining the tolerance to 0.15:19
kristianpaulroh: (dxf doesnt say anything about toolsizes or tolerances) it should not15:19
kristianpaulroh: as i dont mix C code with asm15:19
wpwrakroh: (cutting into corners) now sure how this is usually done. in cameo, you can enable some heuristics for this. you can also pass some hints in the gnuplot file, if you really have to. (ugly, but can be useful while developing a new process)15:19
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: using 'strip' instead of 'sstrip' http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/708d90115:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system, add math stuff and some new pakcages http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b0ccf2b15:20
qi-bot[commit] kyak: put qi openwrt-packages git on top in feed.conf http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/60dec5b15:20
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: use ccache also for C++ compilation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a63d39d15:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: enable the toolchain option for Octave and libgfortran http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/8e334fb15:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system-add-more-php5-modules.patch http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/752f82015:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system: add package sqlite2-cli http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ebf59b715:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: feeds.conf add @revision to feeds.conf http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b458f2915:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: INSTALL_FGORTRAN needs those two options http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/351a2b515:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system: add recently new packages http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3adb62d15:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system remove sshfs, not working under dropbear ssh server http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/376949e15:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add vm.overcommit_memory = 1 sysctl.conf http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/775a29c15:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: feeds.conf update packages revision to 25034 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/584464815:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system include plplot-demo http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a9fb79e15:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: merge all_package and full_system to one http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ed2bf8115:20
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system, remove build uboot for avt2 n516 sakc http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3d49b3f15:20
qi-bot[commit] kyak: mplayer: use "tremor" as default audio codec http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/94bbe3215:20
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: make libgfortran depend on @INSTALL_GFORTRAN toolchain option http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/deda4c015:20
qi-bot[commit] kyak: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/65de17115:20
qi-bot[commit] kyak: enable CONFIG_BUILD_NLS and full versions of iconv/gettext http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/02431e815:20
rohalso it seems to me that somehow people tend to ignore some of these details.. e.g. when i check ponoko or so i dont see anything about such things15:20
rohwpwrak: cameo doesnt seem to use any fileformats which are of any use.15:20
kristianpaulIs chinesse new year over it seems ;-)15:20
wpwrakmmh, the only project where i used dogbones has the old-style cameo usage where it just added the dogbones but without handling the rest of the process.15:21
rohso i guess people just assume (atleast for lasering) that things like a 3.0mm defined slot will take a 3mm wide notch and it will slide in.15:22
wpwrakkristianpaul: let's wait for the  git commit -m hangover  then ;-)15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: libsdl-*: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/4abe59415:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: sdcv: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/5fb08d215:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: qstardict: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/9213cf115:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: mplayer: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e027bf315:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: qball: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/24d2f3315:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: gnome-mime-data: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/a8cf59d15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: moc: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/a3dc29515:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: scummvm: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/cecaa7d15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: zhcon: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f0c9c3b15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: gnuplot-gfx: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b1ccf9815:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: tntnet: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/4c177d915:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: libgnome-vfs: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/ace4d8d15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: mcabber: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/5bc922815:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: ncmpc: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/4d84a5e15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: odt2txt: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/dc7e1be15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: offrss: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3cda7c215:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: plucker: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/daa374315:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: snownews: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/c88e1ca15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: stardict: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/80909bc15:22
qi-bot[commit] kyak: vido: use ICONV notation http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/dac30c315:22
wpwrakroh: (cameo) it grows with what the author needs. you can add more :)15:22
rohwpwrak: 'not another tool'15:23
rohwpwrak: have you seen how much funtions you need to map/implement for parsing or writing dxf?15:23
wpwrakroh: (another tool) the only sane way to go from kicad to a properly made pcb15:23
rohhttp://www.autodesk.com/techpubs/autocad/acad2000/dxf/ there is the spec15:24
wpwrakroh: (dxf) no idea. you can probably just fail if encountering any of the more obscure options. or generate a "dumb" toolpath in a simpler format and work on that.15:24
rohhm. kicad has no proper gerber out?15:25
wpwrakroh: it has gerber out but doesn't know about tool sizes, workpiece orientation, and all this15:25
rohwpwrak: so you have no other cam before milling it?15:25
wpwrakroh: have you looked at http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/atusb/cam/mkmk15:26
wpwrakroh: i go kicad -> cameo -> conversion to rml-1 -> mill15:26
wpwrakroh: all done my the invisible hand of a makefile :)15:26
roheeeeh. i see15:27
wpwrakroh: all that needs manual intervention are workpiece changes (and measuring the origin), and tool changes (drill vs. mill)15:27
rohthats what gcode has toolchange codes for15:28
wpwraki now have a slightly fancier version that also does arrays. so if i want to make, say, 20 UBB boards, that's another "make" :)15:28
kristianpaulwoah !15:28
wpwrakroh: lucky if you have a tool changer that's not you ;-)15:29
kristianpaulwhy you need wolfgang then? ;-)15:29
rohwpwrak: no. if you dont have one the machine pauses and pops up a dialog to prompt you to change it manually15:29
rohand to set the offset (if you dont have a tool length sensor)15:30
wpwrakkristianpaul: well, that's just the bare pcb. still needs etching and all that. and soldering, for anything more advanced that ubb. actually, even ubb needs soldering (for the surface finish)15:30
wpwrakroh: alas, my machine isn't so sophisticated. so i "make cng", head moves at a convenient position, i remove the old tool, insert the new one (a bit higher than needed), press "5" to move to the center of the part to be drilled/milled, press "d" to move to the head down position, release the tool and let it drop to the board, press "q" to quit, and then "make drill" or "make mill".15:32
rohwpwrak: its a default feature of emc2 (linuxcnc)15:32
kristianpaulwpwrak: sure, just kidding :-)15:32
wpwrakroh: (emc2) yeah, my mill has that crappy rml-115:33
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: uart.sch: KiCad resents 0.1", changed to 0.1 in http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/0e203be15:44
qwebirc60276hello everyone, it's me again15:56
qwebirc60276I have compiled openwrt but it's not booting :(15:56
qwebirc60276here's a screenshot: http://img.skitch.com/20110206-jme1xd35unf9cp9c8kg39itmx5.png15:57
qwebirc60276can anyone help me?15:57
kristianpaul /j #openwrt16:02
kristianpaulqwebirc60276: but seems a config error in the grub or quivalent bootloader for your setup16:03
qwebirc60276I have not configured grub16:04
qwebirc60276ohh... compiling for the second time... takes forever... but started.16:08
viricqwebirc60276: booted?16:22
qwebirc60276viric: no. here's a screenshot: http://img.skitch.com/20110206-jme1xd35unf9cp9c8kg39itmx5.png16:22
viricdid you ever use linux?16:22
viricso you know how to tell it where to find the rootfs16:23
qwebirc60276um... I have never compiled it yet. used debian sometimes.16:24
zrafaqwebirc60276: are you trying with qemu?16:25
qwebirc60276zrafa: yes16:25
zrafaqwebirc60276: the screenshot says that you have not said which is the rootfs16:25
viricqwebirc60276: but do you know how to tell the rootfs to it?16:25
qwebirc60276viric: i have tried the -append and it didn't work. I have these images in the bin/x86: openwrt-x86-generic-rootfs-ext2.img openwrt-x86-generic-rootfs-ext2.img.gz openwrt-x86-generic-combined-ext2.img.gzopenwrt-x86-generic-rootfs-jffs2-128k.img openwrt-x86-generic-combined-ext2.vdiopenwrt-x86-generic-rootfs-jffs2-64k.img openwrt-x86-generic-combined-ext2.vmdkopenwrt-x86-generic-rootfs-squashfs.img openwrt-x86-generic-c16:27
viricah you have an ext2?16:27
viricThen run -hda ....ext2.img -append root=/dev/sda16:28
viricand you build for x86?16:28
qwebirc60276yes of course!16:28
viricI thought you had a mipsel openwrt16:28
qwebirc60276viric: thanks, it finally seems to be booting!16:29
viricBut this is not a mipsel openwrt16:29
qwebirc60276now it's stuck at br-lan:port 1(eth0) entering forwarding state16:30
qwebirc60276OK, seems that I've got to the console. How to start gmenu2x then?16:31
kristianpaulwrong archicture qwebirc6027616:33
qwebirc60276kristianpaul: wrong architecture for what?16:33
kristianpaulgmenu2x port for the ben nanonote?16:34
kristianpaulAt least you just want to run gmenu2x on a x86 arch...16:34
kristianpauland port it your self, etc...16:34
qwebirc60276I'm not sure if it was in the package, I just don't see it in /bin, /sbin /usr/bin and /usr/sbin16:35
qwebirc60276ok then, I'm gonna buy a Ben NN this week, so I'll have time to play with gmenu2x. Now it's time to make apps! :D16:37
qwebirc60276thanks everyone for helping me!16:37
qwebirc60276oops forgot to include the gcc and fpc into the image D:16:38
kristianpaul(gonna buy a Ben NN this week) Thats better :-)16:38
qwebirc60276I will sell my old Chinese Cellphone (you know, 2SIM-TV-FM-etc :) and then I'll have enough money to buy a NN :)16:39
qwebirc60276Goodbye everyone! gonna go sleep, it's 2:40AM here in Ufa, Russia ;)16:42
kristianpaulrussia, nice :-)16:45
Jay7hm.. there is lot of russians16:50
kristianpaulSo far i remenber kyak and you16:52
Jay7seems viric too :)16:56
kristianpaulah yes !17:05
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: fpd2pdf: added option -P to select full-page drawings http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/e7a2cdc18:06
kuribasCould I use the nanonote part of the nanonote hardware to make a digital recorder?18:07
kuribasI mean part of the nanonote hardware.18:07
kuribasFor example, to have another board with preamps and a/d's and connect them to the board?18:08
kuribasI would have an inexpensive, opensource digital recorder.18:08
wpwrakkuribas: in general, why not. but why not use the audio hardware that's already in there ? (microphone in and speaker out)18:08
kuribasDoes it have a decent a/d?  What's the bitrate?18:10
kuribasIt's probably a mono mic input right?  I would need at least two mono channels.18:15
kuribasThe speaker out would be useful indeed.18:16
kristianpauldecent a/d well audio few kilo herts, thats not decent...18:17
kristianpauldigital recorder, you mean just audio? or something else18:18
kuribasYes, audio.18:18
kristianpaulTry Jlime !!18:19
kristianpaulIt already include audiorecorder18:19
kristianpaulI had used, is good :-)18:19
kristianpaulor command line option will be...18:19
kristianpaularecord -d 8 -f cd -t wav test.wav18:20
kristianpaul  aplay test.wav18:20
wpwrakkuribas: there's a stereo headphone jack. so audio out should be okay.18:20
kuribasjlime is a distro, not hardware, right?18:21
larscthe codec has a stero line-in, but i'm not sure if it is accessible on the nanonote.18:21
kristianpaulkuribas: sure is distro, what you mea with hardware?18:22
kuribaskristianpaul: I mean to use part of the nanonote hardware to create a new device, a digital recorder with professional microphone inputs.18:23
wpwraklarsc: (line in) doesn't look good18:23
kuribasOf course if interfacing with the nanonote would work, that could be an option to.18:23
wpwrakkuribas: seems that you'd have to do the microphone circuit externally. see also page 2 of http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/9/9c/Lb60_schematic.pdf18:25
larscif you want decent audio quality you should probably consider an external codec18:25
kristianpaul(professional microphone inputs) i doubt it..18:27
kristianpauli agrew with larsc18:27
kuribaskristianpaul: Of course it wouldn't fit into the nanonote housing :)18:27
kristianpaulwho knows18:28
kristianpaulICs are small those times18:28
kuribasFor example I could use the pcm1803: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/936518:29
kuribasOr I could output the data in usb, and then send it to the nanonote.18:33
kristianpaulnanonote is usb client18:33
kristianpaulYou have SDIO too..18:34
larsci2s should work well, if you are going to design your own board18:35
kuribasSDIO would be nice for an external device.18:38
kuribasHow good it the battery life?  Could it run for 3 hours?18:38
kuribas"Communication with the PCM1803A is achieved through a serial interface called I2S"18:43
rohi2s is nothing special. used a lot. also as part of ac9718:44
kuribasI see.18:45
rohits quite simple and i think could be called the de-facto standard how to serially transmit audio from chip to chip18:47
larsckuribas: under full load the battery should laste ~6 hours18:48
kuribasThat would be very good.  Of course the preamps will take a lot of current.18:49
larscroh: i2s is not part of ac97, afaik. both are protocols to connect codecs to the cpu18:49
larsckuribas: if the system is mostly idle and the screen is turned of it should last for a day. not sure if you need the screen while recording18:52
tuxbrainhello! guys, I just arrived to Barcelona :)18:52
rohlarsc: i2s is much more low level18:52
kuribaslarsc: no, the screen could turn of after a while.18:53
tuxbrainroh: common every one needs a marketing goon in his life :P18:53
rohac97 specifies much more. like register layouts, pinouts, featuresets etc18:53
wpwrakbtw, i2s is available on PD18/KEYIN1, PD19/KEYIN2, PD20/KEYIN3, PD21/KEYIN4, PD22/KEYIN518:54
tuxbrainwpwrak: meanwhile you don't use the Keyboard :)18:54
wpwraktuxbrain: (return to brc) wow, not even staying for beers ?18:54
tuxbrainenough beers on friday dude :P18:55
wpwraktuxbrain: typing noise would mess up the sound anyway ;-)18:55
rohtuxbrain: its not a real 'includes' or 'uses' .. rather a 'newer version'18:56
rohin the end all that serial stuff is just 'aligned shift registers' ;)18:57
tuxbrainhehehe I love when you guys use the "is just..."  hehehe18:58
tuxbrainI have to sleep a little and to clarify my mind with the miriad of iputs recieved, but one thing is clear among all others... if NN have Wifi We have selled a lot more and I had talk a lot more less :P19:01
wpwraktuxbrain: with wpan you'll sell only half as many ?19:02
tuxbrainyes, even with wpan I guess people expect wireless comm on such o a portable device.19:03
tuxbrainanother conclusion is that 6LoWPAN is not very well known :)19:04
tuxbrainand barely un pronunciable19:04
wpwrakyeah, it's also still quite young19:04
wpwrak"SLowPAN" ? :)19:04
tuxbrainwell some contradictory feeling on that name, easy to remember and pronounce =good but I will just use le LowPAN (Low power better than slow speed ;) )19:08
wpwrakhehe :)19:09
tuxbrainalso there where some interest on the expandability trhouhg sdio... how was the status on the original idea on the RJ45 ethernet dongle? I miss something or is totally stoped?19:10
wpwrakethernet ? don't remember that. sounds scary. better connect this via wireless.19:11
wpwrakthere was some talk about USB host at the same time we discussed UART. you said you'd do UART and i should do USB. now i've done UART, so USB is left for you (-:C19:12
wpwrak(not so sure if USB would make sense anyway, again because of mechanical stress)19:12
zrafatuxbrain: but the lack of wireless if something already known . I mean, all of us know that if nn had wifi it would sell a lot more. YOu will not realize it because you were in fosdem19:13
tuxbrainme too... (even more If I have to do it myself :P)19:13
tuxbrainzrafa..... yes I know before go there... but when about 400 people ask you this in less than two days... you have it echoing  in your mind for weeks :P19:15
zrafatuxbrain: maybe a similar device is zipit2. Because there is some linux port for it, and wireless works there. Every time you see somebody checking if he should buy zipit2 (which has wifi) or nn he always thinks he should buy zipit2, because the nn lack wireless19:15
tuxbrainis like a brain washing doing from the mass19:15
tuxbrainyes the zipit has come some times in the conversation also, but that is clear answer, try to ask zipit for the schematics and then come again, we are doing serious work to free the hardware stack on the electronics world... and yest it doesn't have wifi move on19:17
tuxbrainof course not so rough and with a smile in my face :)19:18
wpwrakzrafa: conclusion: don't mention zipit2 and hope they won't find out on their own ;-)19:19
tuxbrainof course I have not metion zipit never on my side first :)19:19
zrafatuxbrain: and I think that atben and atusb would fix the lack of wireless. Still if it is not wifi. But we can say, "yes, it has wireless via atben + atusb; you can use it with your pc as router or with a wifi router with usb". If they are interested for more details they will ask, if no then they just are okey with some kind of wireless connection.19:19
tuxbrain"We find a way to achive free wireless, that is our way, we prefer to innovate towards freedom than being anchored on proprietary stuff" tuxbrain dixit :P19:22
zrafawpwrak: yeah. I dont say that we mention zipit2. People find zipit2 before nn.. and they then doub about which thing to buy19:26
zrafawpwrak: and I am talking about typical linux pc user.. who checks for some device with linux, no about people who already know about copyleft hardware and this world.19:27
wpwrakzrafa: do they still produce the zipit2 ? i heard that one of those ben competitors was EOL already, but i don't remember which19:28
wpwraktuxbrain: (tuxbrain dixit) beautiful :)19:28
zrafawpwrak: I do not know... but I have seen it costs around half nn price.. and people say "and it has wifi!"19:29
wpwrakzrafa: so let's hipe it's discontinued. then the problem will solve itself ;-)19:29
zrafayeah :)19:30
kristianpaulit compiless !!!!19:34
kristianpaulnow i need learn how to use the api (lua with rtems)19:34
tuxbrainwpwrak: I'm still being sure one day we will be as big or more than that thing with wifi :)19:35
tuxbraincongrats kristianpaul :)!19:35
kristianpaulnot yet19:35
tuxbrainok congrats retired until you decide ;P19:36
wpwraktuxbrain: what thing ? and what's wifi ? :)19:36
tuxbrainthat's the spirit wpwrak, and also not try to not die in the way, no so easy task :)19:37
larscnice talk about how flash works: http://linuxconfau.blip.tv/file/4720404/19:40
Action: kristianpaul click19:41
kuribasIt wouldn't be possible to connect my preamp/adc to the nanonote using usb (because nanonote has only usb client)?19:42
kristianpaulGet a preamp/adc with usb host?19:44
rohsometimes i wish we could just open up something like the netwalker19:44
kuribaskristianpaul: If I do that, will it still work an a normal computer with usb host?19:44
tuxbrainok guys , just one more thing FOSDEM sould be considered as a must visit on wathever has the minimum posiblilty to do so if is FOSS CC FSF or watherver esle related,19:45
tuxbraingood knigh19:47
kristianpaulhmm ECC ..19:59
kuribasSo if my preamp/adc would have 4 channels of 24 bit audio at 96kHz, that would need 9Mbps.  That should be possible with usb2.0.20:19
kristianpaullarsc: he said ubifs is obsolte right?20:26
kristianpauli'm not used to this british-like acent..20:26
kristianpaulah no20:27
kristianpaulsorry nv..20:27
wpwrakwho ? and what does he say is the future then ?20:27
kristianpaulubifs way to go .-)20:29
wpwrakah, pity20:30
kristianpauljffs NO20:30
larsckristianpaul: no jffs220:30
kristianpaulah 220:30
larscwpwrak: the talk is by david woodhouse20:33
wpwrakokay, he's the man for anything flash :)20:34
kristianpaul"C as a scripting language" ohh  (watching Rusty Russell talk)20:51
kristianpaulnotmuch, interesting alternative to grep?. lets see21:01
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.debug/minimal enable rootfs tar.gz http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f1eabcf22:29
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-example-files, install to data, prepare for add script-files http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/a08dac622:37
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: stardict-dic-en-cn fix typo http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/5c3975822:37
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add nanonote script files http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/eea1ff022:37
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: rename nanonote-example files http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/868eb3b22:37
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: move those files to nanonote-files package http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/547f88622:59
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-files move from openwrt-xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/cdabb5522:59
qwebirc86602hello everyone again23:59
qwebirc86602viric: for which processor do I have to compile OpenWRT kernel to launch the Ben NN original UbiFS image?23:59
--- Mon Feb 7 201100:00

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