#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-01-25

qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: emacs, remove manully strip binary file http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/9e6dd9d00:41
kyakxiangfu: hi!00:44
xiangfukyak:00:44
kyakxiangfu: do i remember correctly that you were going to built a release image this week?00:45
kyakyou said, Wednesday or Friday00:45
xiangfukyak: yes. I got those images. but it's too big. big then 512M . :(00:45
xiangfuls packages/ | wc -l00:46
xiangfu244500:46
kyakheh..ok then :) i wanted to ask you to check it "gottet" could get inside this image.. I guess you have other worries now00:46
xiangfukyak: ^ we got ~2400 packages this time.00:46
kyakfidn something to remove00:46
kyakis pretty amazing00:46
xiangfukyak: do you mean this: http://gottcode.org/gottet/ ?00:50
kyakyep, but it's already in openwrt-pacakges00:50
xiangfukyak: yes. of cause, I always like Tetris. I play the command line version a lot :)00:52
kyakactually, wy wife is beating the crap out of console version :) but then she asked to find something more "beautiful" :) so i found gottet00:53
wolfspraulxiangfu: have you removed the sample music and berlin nanomap already?00:54
wolfspraulunfortunately afaik those are the only easy targets to reduce rootfs size00:54
kyaki'd say, we coudl remove gcc and ghostscript.. these are space eaters00:57
kyakthen oen could install those via opkg00:57
kyak*one00:57
xiangfuwolfspraul: not yet.00:58
xiangfuwolfspraul: kyak here is all install package size: http://pastebin.com/e9KHtW3800:59
xiangfu#00:59
xiangfu12M     nanonote-example-files_1.0_xburst.ipk00:59
kyakxiangfu: sorting by size would be great ;)01:00
kyak| sort -h should handle it01:00
xiangfukyak: thanks. this is much better: http://pastebin.com/XWaYBLhp01:03
kyakok, now we see...01:03
kyakhm, for some reasone i thought that gcc install size is ~60Mb01:04
kyakxiangfu: what is the resulting image size now01:09
kyak?01:09
kyak172K    openvpn_2.1.3-4_xburst.ipk01:11
kyakvery questionable01:12
kyak1.2M    centerim_4.22.9-4_xburst.ipk - this could be made as "module"01:12
kyakwe have nlove, but do we have any playable games for it?01:13
xiangfukyak: http://pastebin.com/3GsAtes2, the image size and others01:14
kyaki think it is needed to have at least 50Mb spare in rootfs01:15
wolfspraullet's not remove things that work01:17
wolfspraulwe could move some data files to the data partition?01:17
wolfspraulbut we need to be careful that we don't make upgrading and package management harder...01:17
wolfspraulthings like the stardict-en dictionary01:18
wolfspraulwell first step we can definitely remove the sample music file01:18
wolfspraulit's nice to see that we have so many things that actually work slowly :-)01:18
wolfspraulI'm wondering whether emacs-data can be on the data partition - not sure what it exactly is, when/how it needs to be upgraded, etc.01:19
wolfspraulat least the .ubi is only 505MB, so we're close :-)01:19
xiangfu505MB is already bigger then nanonote ubi rootfs partition. ubifs can not using full 512MB flash.01:26
xiangfuoutput by 'df' : ubi0:rootfs 471192 471192 0 100%01:27
rjeffriesgood evening 22"26 in my time zone01:27
kyaki think it's pretty tricky to install something into datafs.. because it can be mounted or not, it can be formatted or not.. how about flashing of Bens in factory? and what about users who upgrade, they could have some files..01:32
kyak..already in data partition, or maybe they have two data partitions...01:32
wolfspraulkyak: yes exactly, but we need a good solid plan/answer for those things, otherwise why do we have the data partition at all?01:40
rjeffrieshello wolf01:40
wolfspraulrjeffries: we need investors to take copyleft hardware to the next level fast and aggressively01:41
wolfspraulcan you help us find one?01:41
rjeffriesI don't have any idea how one would pitch this to investors01:42
wolfspraulI think we should increase speed, and attack on more technical fronts in parallel :-)01:42
rjeffriesyou almost need to find a guy who shares your passion01:42
wolfspraulno, just a hardware investor01:43
rjeffriesthe guy who is behind Ubuntu is an interesting case01:43
wolfspraulany investment in any manufacturing business carries the same if not higher risks01:43
wolfspraulyou have just never asked yourself what it would take to invest in some manufacturing business :-)01:43
wolfspraulwhat's the differentiator? what stops your competitors from undercutting you on price? etc.01:44
rjeffriesoh I understand thos issues reanably well01:44
wolfspraulit takes much more guts and business swagger for Samsung to invest 30 billion USD this year into their fabs, than for anyone to invest in copyleft hardware01:44
rjeffriesat least I think I do01:44
wolfspraulthe issue is just to find those venturing individuals and get them onboard :-)01:45
wolfspraulsome cold calling necessary I guess...01:45
rjeffriesthere is an existence proof sorta kinda: Adafruit, Sparkfun, Seed Studio01:45
rjeffriesAdafruit has their own pick and place for example (not sure that makese sense, but they do)01:46
wolfspraulwhat's your point about those companies?01:53
wolfspraulone problem I see is the subsidizing of hardware by content or services companies01:57
wolfspraulat least I'm thinking about it right now01:58
wolfspraulat least they have to make it back somewhere, so we should be ready and market at those places01:59
rjeffriesI assume margins in copyleft hardware will be razor thin with modest volume.02:04
xiangfukyak: report a bug about mplayer:02:18
xiangfuroot@BenNanoNote:~# mplayer  --help02:18
xiangfumplayer: can't load library 'libXext.so.6'02:18
xiangfukyak: I am using the MPlayer here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.all_packages-01212011-2200/packages/02:19
rjeffrieslater all02:27
rjeffriesre: <wolfspraul> what's your point about those companies? [Adafruit etc] simply that they selll low cost open hardware and seem to be doing OK.02:29
kyakxiangfu: hm-hm.. thanks, i'll check it!02:36
kyakxiangfu: i didn't build mplayer with full image, quess it tries to compile in some additional libs/features, which are not explicitely disabled..02:37
kyakxiangfu: could you upload a build log for mplayer?02:37
xiangfukyak: ok.02:37
kyak(with both stdout and stderr)02:39
xiangfukyak:  make package/mplayer/{clean,compile} V=99 > mplayer.build.log 2>&102:40
xiangfukyak: the full build log is here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.all_packages-01212011-2200/02:41
xiangfukyak: now I am create the only mplayer log.02:41
kyakxiangfu: yes, this is perfect02:42
xiangfukyak: the Mplayer is at Line:668174 ~ 698750 at http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.all_packages-01212011-2200/BUILD_LOG :)02:43
wolfsprauladamw_: do you know when you will go to xilinx exactly?02:43
kyakxiangfu: i'd prefer a separate log :) would have to download the whole BUILD_LOG, it's aroudn 50 Mb is guess :)02:44
xiangfukyak: you can download the .bz2 file.  4.9M. the unzip file is 160M02:45
kyaksince you are already creating a separate log, i'll wait for that!02:47
xiangfukyak: yes.02:47
adamw_wolfspraul, thursday02:53
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system, remove build uboot for avt2 n516 sakc http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3d49b3f02:55
wolfsprauladamw_: what time exactly?03:04
wolfspraulI think we should tell lekernel so if you need some quick feedback at least he knows when you are there (if it's in the middle of the night I guess we cannot do much...)03:05
adamw_wolfspraul, pm2:3003:05
adamw_the most tasks are to ask them to help & verify if the h/w design is initially reasonable...03:08
wolfspraulI saw you uploaded some scope screenshots - anything unusual there?03:09
adamw_suppose that during that period i think no need to like quick support on some parameters changes request from lekernel.03:09
wolfspraulalright then...03:09
adamw_they are not enough yet...keep measuring...i want to make a sequence of timing03:10
adamw_i don't know exactly too much on DONE & INIT_B pins03:11
xiangfukyak: the gottet have some display problem: check this screenshot: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/gottet.png03:12
xiangfukyak: thanks for 'qball', 'Tile'  and 'gottet', I like all of them.03:14
kyakxiangfu: hm.. works fine for me.. looks like your display is shrinked03:16
adamw_but i saw the info said that they are important for "Design Considerations" on p36 of ug394.pdf[Spartan-6 FPGA Power Management]03:16
kyakxiangfu: did you unset that variable from directfb? like rgb2403:17
adamw_well...cu later03:17
wolfspraulcu03:17
kyakxiangfu: it looks like your screen is exactly 3/4 of usual size03:20
kyakxiangfu: make sure your QWS_DISPLAY=linuxfb03:21
xiangfukyak: yes. I have QWS_DIRPLAY=linuxfb and have tried add "pixelformat=RGB24" to /etc/directfb.03:24
xiangfusame result.03:24
kyakno-no, you should remove it.. but this is not relevant, maybe..03:24
kyakdo you have the same results when running gottet -qws from console?03:24
kyakwhat about other qt apps - NanoMap, qball etc?03:25
xiangfuNanoMap. qball works fine. only gottet have this problem03:25
xiangfukyak: I tried both with and without "pixelformat=RGB24". same result on gottet.03:26
kyakvery strange03:27
kyakxiangfu: i don't even know what to think about.. did you build from scratch long time ago?03:30
kyakxiangfu: i think i would request the full build log of gottet, too :)03:32
xiangfukyak: ok. will re-build the gottet again, then send you the log03:33
kyakok..03:35
kyakxiangfu: how exactly are you starting the gottet?03:37
xiangfugottet -qws03:37
kyakfrom where?03:37
xiangfucommand,03:38
kyakfrom ssh session?03:38
xiangfuI tried, ssh, ctrl+alt+F1, and 'ash(default)' in gmenu2x03:38
kyakare you running other apps from gmenu2x's shortcut, or from console as well?03:40
kyakother qt4 apps03:40
xiangfuno03:45
kyakso, from gmenu or from console? :)03:45
xiangfukyak: I am confused.03:47
xiangfuthe 'qball' works fine by start in 'ssh session' 'Ctrl + Alt + F2' and 'ash(default)' in gmenu2x03:48
kyakok.. weird03:48
xiangfuonly gottet have problem. :(03:49
kyakcould you rebuild from scratch? i don't know, but it helps sometimes03:49
kyakit's really wierd, because we should be on the same elvel.. same hardware, same toolchain03:50
xiangfukyak: your host is 32bit ? right?03:51
kyakyeah03:51
xiangfukyak: can you post your gottet ipk somewhere, let me try your build.03:52
kyakok. on sec03:52
kyakhttp://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/gottet_1.0.4-1_xburst.ipk03:53
kyakxiangfu: -^03:53
xiangfukyak: still same.03:56
kyakthen it's not gottet, presumably03:57
xiangfukyak: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/tmp/gottet.build.log03:57
xiangfukyak: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/tmp/mplayer.build.log.bz203:57
kyakmust be some underlying library03:57
kyakthanks for the logs, i'll check it03:58
wolfspraulxiangfu: I think the font used in the main window of GMU is not very readable04:01
wolfsprauldid anybody else complain about this before, or think that the current one is perfect?04:01
wolfspraulis it possible to change the font used there to a better looking one?04:02
xiangfuwolfspraul:  no one complain for now.04:05
kyakxiangfu: for gottet, our logs are pretty much the same04:05
kyaki don't have qt4-dbus enabled04:05
xiangfuwolfspraul: I guess the gmu can not using the setfont2 fonts. then only method is make the font bigger.04:08
Jay7wolfspraul: I can complain but I'm not using it frequently :)04:09
xiangfukyak: ok. I enable all the package as modules. so mean I enable all of the packages.04:09
kyakxiangfu: for mplayer, i think i know what is the problem.. will commit it soon for your checking04:09
xiangfukyak: (mplayer) great. thanks.04:09
wolfspraulJay7: there are other small things, like when adding a file to the playlist, the cursor could advance to the next line04:14
xiangfuthere is "gmu-cli" in gmu-0.7.204:14
xiangfudont' know how to using it. not help text. :(04:14
wolfspraulwell probably tons of little things everywhere, but I accept that the best way to bring forward such feedback is with a patch :-)04:14
wolfspraulalso I think in the playlist view, you cannot scroll to the right as you can in the file view04:14
Jay7I'm considering about using gmu as default player for zauruses in angstrom :)04:15
xiangfuthe gmu using .png as font.04:18
xiangfuso we can replace the "letters_small_blue.png" for replace the font.04:19
xiangfubut need someone to create the better font.04:19
xiangfuneed do the same work as setfont2.04:19
Jay7 use terminus :)04:19
Jay7and gimp :)04:19
wolfspraulxiangfu: not the highest priority for me, it works pretty well04:20
wolfspraulI'm just curious how others feel about those shortcomings.04:20
xiangfuJay7: maybe you can help :)04:20
wolfspraulone time I had a little sputtering when listening to audio04:20
wolfsprauldon't know why04:20
wolfspraulthe console said something about dropped audio etc.04:21
wolfspraulbut it happened only once, maybe some heavy processing in the background?04:21
qi-bot[commit] kyak: mplayer: explicitely disable X11 features http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/6b0e5bb04:21
wolfspraulit sputtered maybe 2-3 times, that was it. but out of the blue, in the middle of listening, screen was off etc.04:21
kyakxiangfu: you have X11 devel libraries in toolchain, and mplayer autodetects and uses them.. now X11 features should be disabled04:22
xiangfuthe font is at gmu-0.7.2/themes/default-modern/letters_small_***.png04:22
kyakxiangfu: please check if it works now for you...04:23
xiangfukyak: ok. thanks.04:23
kyakthe gmu font is small indeed, but msot of the time you listen to music rather than watch the gmu :)04:23
Jay7oh.. seems someone should say to Jane to not answer inside quoted text04:26
Jay7I've spent some time to find answer there :)04:26
wolfspraulyeah it's hard to read04:27
Jay7at least she doesn't using top-posting..04:28
xiangfuwolfspraul: kyak I decide remove :  nethack, qt4-demos, stardict-dit-en-cn, qt4-examples gcc-mips make binutiles xz, totally about 37MB.04:32
xiangfuthose will build as modules, not inside ubi rootfs image.04:33
wolfspraulouch, I like them04:38
wolfspraulwell if it's between you and your image, go ahead you have the power :-)04:38
wolfspraulare the qt4-demos and qt4-examples actually working? last time I checked they weren't04:39
Jay7btw, I've found 3 good looking console mp3 players - cmus, gamp and mp3blaster04:40
xiangfukyak: after install libggi, libgii, libaa, svgalib, giflib, fribidi, libspeex, libtheora, the mplayer working.04:44
xiangfubut can not play the sample audio file in the nanonote.04:46
wolfspraulJay7: so many, wow04:51
wolfspraulmp3blaster sounds wrong though :-)04:51
Jay7mp3blaster should have troubles with small screen :)04:52
Jay7gamp have no volume control (marked as in progress in features)04:52
Jay7so.. cmus :)04:52
Jay7http://cmus.sourceforge.net/04:53
kyakwolfspraul: qt4 demos and examples are working04:54
Jay7gamp here: http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~wburdick/gamp/04:54
Jay7not sure about volume control in cmus04:55
kyakxiangfu: mplayer has both theora and tremor (vorbis) codecs enabled. .should play the sample file just fine (though i didn't check it).. maybe you can have a look at "mplayer -ac help" and choose the codec manually05:01
kyakoh.05:02
qi-bot[commit] kyak: mplayer: use "tremor" as default audio codec http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/94bbe3205:04
Jay7http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Matrix_Users_Guide05:12
Jay7TI Matrix Application Launcher GUI05:12
Jay7may be interesting05:13
Jay7there is Text UI Launcher as well but w/o screenshots..05:13
Jay7https://gforge.ti.com/gf/project/matrix_tui/05:13
Jay7cmus have volume control05:17
Jay7and remote control via cmus-remote + unix socket05:18
kyakJay7: the Matric GUI is based on HTML and CSS, and therefore requires some decent graphical mode browser.. afaic, we don't have any05:28
Jay7yeah.. I've found already05:28
Jay7TUI is described later too05:28
Jay7but it is using libxml to parse config05:28
kyakTUI may be intersting, cause it's ncurses based05:28
kyaklibxml is avaialble, too05:29
kyakso should be possible to run it05:29
Action: Jay7 remember about need to implement TUI in kexecboot and feel sad05:30
kyakcmus looks pretty much like mocp :)05:31
Jay7oh, yes05:31
Jay7haven't know about it05:32
kyakit's already ported and in openwrt-packages05:32
Jay7even on OE too..05:32
Jay7good05:33
kyakbtw it seems we are not too far away from each other.. at least the ISP is the same :)05:33
Jay7kyak: hehe :)05:34
Jay7I'm from Ulyanovsk05:34
Jay7middle volga05:34
kyak0, 7=0G8B, :>@18=0 4>1@0;0AL 4> #;LO=>2A:0 )05:34
Jay7C6 3>40 420 :0: :)05:35
Jay7now there are other non-latin chars in log ;)05:35
kyakyep.. headache for wolfspraul :)05:35
Jay7kyak: are you from Moscow? ;)05:36
kyakyes05:36
Jay7bingo, hehe :)05:36
kyakyour chances were high.. 90% of Corbina users are from Moscow :)05:36
Jay7yeah05:37
kyakdid you get Ben long ago?05:37
Jay7this summer iirc05:37
Jay7http://www.ul-lug.ru/node/5405:38
kyakhow long did it take to arrive?05:38
kyakah ok :)05:38
Jay72 month by '=0H0 3@510=0O ?>GB0 @>8AA8' :)05:38
Jay7now it is kind of 'drawer computer'..05:39
kyak"2848<>, 70?0A=>9 ":C?>;" 4;O :0:>9-B> :=>?:8 2 >B45;L=>< ?0:5B8:5" - used to short-cut the pins for USB boot :)05:39
Jay7kyak: yes, now I'm understand :)05:39
Jay7btw, should fix this05:39
kyakso, you are playing with kexec on Ben?05:41
Jay7that was initial plan :)05:42
kyakdo you have some obligations for "CE Linux" group?05:42
Jay7still have no time/wish to test kexecboot there05:42
Jay7contract05:42
Jay7I'm doing work, they paying money :)05:43
Jay7here is original proposal: http://elinux.org/CELF_Project_Proposal/Improve_kexecboot05:43
kyakso you don't have a time/wish to get money, huh? :)05:43
Jay7kind of :)05:43
kyakwould be great to have it on Ben, really05:44
Jay7I should finish all my work before March05:44
Jay7so.. you will have it soon enough ;)05:44
kyakgood to know! )05:45
Jay7I've promised to kristianpaul to fork some kind of application launcher from kexecboot code05:45
wolfspraulkyak: no headache, if there's anything I love to care about then it's cultural differences, different characters, writing systems, etc.05:46
wolfspraulas a kid I actually ordered the 2 unicode 1.0 volumes the moment they came out and studied all those interesting characters :-)05:46
wolfspraulI even brought them to my school and told the teacher they should tech this stuff instead of the boring shit we had to learn at the time :-)05:47
wolfspraulyeah well, ...05:47
kyakJay7: then we will have both boot menu and another application launcher :)05:47
wolfspraulI would have just gone through all those exciting scripts, one by one. every week another one...05:47
Jay7kyak: that is the point :)05:47
kyakwolfspraul: you should've devoted your life to calligraphy :)05:48
Jay7wolfspraul: I've look on chinese calligraphy about week ago :)05:48
Jay7heh05:48
wolfspraulI'm more into really exotic/mystic stuff05:48
wolfspraulthe chinese reality is a bit too harsh for me every day to enjoy the beauty much05:49
wolfspraulso I like the georgian alphabet, or nepalese, or mongolian script, or even ancient stuff like maya, egyptian, etc.05:49
kyakdo you have tatoos?05:50
wolfspraulha, no05:50
kyakbased on your passion for symbols, i though yo ucould :)05:50
rohmorning06:02
kyakwolfspraul: just found this by accident http://code.google.com/webfonts06:04
rohwolfspraul: just read a bit of my scrollback buffer... i think we have 2 challenges in 'open hardware'. one is the purely technical, developing stuff others did already but with free licenses. the other being socially, building a community which enables us to solve the first problem.06:04
rohthe second part is extremly important since 'money alone' doesnt buy one enough trust and capabilities to get things done. e.g. 'who owns what' 'who has which machines' 'who can help us get $detail solved'(in foss licenses)06:05
rohits hard getting people to write down the knowledge they have for others to 'copy and use', especially if thats what they are living from.06:06
rohwolfspraul: in the end the biggest challenge is getting this all done and working. building a ecosystem which enables us to continue working on foss stuff.06:10
kristianpaulJay7: :-)06:27
wpwrakroh: money is never a solution :) but it can help make a solution stick.06:44
roh;)06:45
wpwrakroh: e.g., if you find someone capable and that person would have to spend the next few months full-time to solve a major problem you have (like making a ben/ya case), consider option A) that you have money or option B) that you don't.06:46
wpwraksometimes, B) even works better than A), e.g., if people feel that involving money creates obligations or just somehow wrong at some level. but if someone has to spend a lot of time basically working for you, that's more likely to happen if you can help them in return to not have to worry about existential needs.06:48
mthwpwrak: paying volunteers can be very tricky, but fully paid work has less complications07:16
kyak"existencial needs" may vary from person to person :)07:19
wolfspraulkyak: what's special about this directory? are they all under free licenses?07:22
wolfspraulI am looking for a nice directory of only free fonts, couldn't find it yet07:23
rohwolfspraul: hard work (finding fonts)07:23
rohthe one used in the case manual is free07:23
rohsomehow07:23
wolfspraulI found dafont.com and fontsquirrel.com, but the free stuff is among a flood of non-free stuff07:23
rohwolfspraul: you really need to meet wetterfrosch some time07:24
kyakwolfspraul: first of all, they are free, and secondly, it would feed your calligraphic passion :)07:24
wolfspraulthen there is linuxlibertine.org07:24
wolfspraulroh: did you get that missing package of acrylic sheets?07:25
rohyeah07:25
roh4 hours later07:25
rohfrom a veeeery sorry delivery guy07:25
wolfspraulwell good then, happy ending07:25
rohyes. still.. next time i will pay somebody i know personally to fetch it. much too slow and expensive for the bad quality of service07:26
wolfspraulthere is also typedia.org, but I'm not sure whether they focus on free fonts or also will get buried under thousands of non-free fonts later07:28
wpwrakkyak: (existential needs) absolutely. some people are so horrified about the idea of having to file a tax declaration that they'd rather not have any income. of course, someone must be covering their existential needs somehow. maybe their parents.07:34
wpwrakkyak: or maybe seniors. i'm actually a bit surprised that we don't see more of them in the free culture world. there ought to be a lot of excellent engineers with their juices still flowing at retirement age. who is it that virtually none of them seem to enter the free software world ? or free hardware for that matter ?07:39
rohwpwrak: true. maybe the way to get people to commit their work to opensouce is finding a way to get them live from it ;)07:40
kyakin my country, 99% of retired people don't stop working. Otherwise, they won't provide their own "existencial needs"07:42
kyakthey stop working when they physically can't work, and therefor not interesting for potential employer07:42
wpwrakkyak: yeah, you have a good system :) but in many of the richer countries, a lot of people just fall off a cliff at 65. all of a sudden their job is gone. their whole life changes. some manage to give it new purpose, find something to do. a lot don't and just switch into "wait for death" mode.07:43
wpwrakroh: indeed ;-)07:44
kyakwpwrak: i know old people from USA and Germany travel a lot..07:45
kyakmeans that they not only can work, but they have money!07:45
kyakideal employee :) no need to pay07:45
wpwrakkyak: exactly !07:49
kyakwpwrak: btw, how old are you? :)07:53
wpwrakkyak: 43, still a bit short of retirement age :)07:53
kyakwhat's the age in your country?07:54
kyak65?07:54
wpwrakkyak: i don't even know :) in argentina, i think it's about as relevant as in russia. you can retire when you have enough to last to your projected end of life. else, you better keep on working.07:58
kyakbut there's still an official retirement age - and it is a very important milestone for everyone07:59
wpwrakkyak: yeah, that's the age when they lose their regular job :)07:59
kyakwhat do old people do in Argentina?08:00
wpwrakkyak: some earn enough money that that they can live comfortably with it. a lot get by with savings and retirement money. quite a lot have to work. it all depends a bit on the social class as well.08:03
kyaki mean, those who work - what do they do?08:04
kyakhere they usually work as janitors, nurses... men can work as guards (yes)08:05
wpwrakkyak: yup, very popular.08:07
kyakif you were not kidding, it's hard to imagine those people working on some modern open source project08:09
wpwrakkyak: the guards and such, probably not. but whose who worked as engineers, probably living off their savings. where are they ?08:11
wpwrakkyak: does it not appeal to them ? are they too disconnected technologically ? do they dislike the communities ?08:11
kyakyeah, these are good reasons.. they are probably way too out of date08:12
kyaksome of them are not very keen with computers08:12
kyakmost of them08:12
wpwrakkyak: maybe it's still too early for sw engineers. by now, only the first cobol grunts have reached retirement age :)08:13
kyakthey may be very cool respectful professors, but this is another reasons why they can also think that they are always right08:13
wpwrakkyak: hardware should be easier, though. transistors haven't changed all that much in recent decades.08:13
kyaki bet some teachers from my univercity have seen lamps...08:14
kyakwpwrak: you are right, perhaps it's too early. I wonder what would happen when i become old. Would i be out of date?08:15
kyak"what's that? ah, a teleporter.. What th ehell, i prefer driving a gasoline car!"08:15
kyakit's all changin so fast08:17
wpwrakkyak: well, one problem with hardware is failing vision. that small stuff seems to get really bad once you cross the 50. i even notice it beginning for me already when wearing lenses. luckily, i'm near-sighted, so i can still focus just fine after removing correction.08:18
kyakwpwrak: you could find yourself a young pupil. He could be your hands and eyes :) He will continue your work after your death (at least it worked like that couple of centuries ago)08:20
wpwrakkyak: that's one of the good things in the free software world. your work is likely to outlast you. i think it really does take some psychological burden off you :)08:24
kyakdo you imagine how many old sites, repos, projects there will be on the Internet in 70 years? :)08:25
kyakold= abandoned, whose owbers are long dead08:25
kyak*owners08:25
kyakand nobody knows the password08:25
kyakand then intersted people start to fork it, and then they are dead, too08:26
kyakintersting picture :)08:26
wpwrakkyak: well, ihave my stuff in the linux kernel. i don't think there's much of a risk that people will read their ancient fat file systems in 50 years with code that's substantially different from what's been around for the last 15 years. likewise for initrd. it has evolved slightly and become initramfs. still the same principle. even my copyright is still valid. killall and pstree - anyone in a hurry to replace these ? of course not. s08:30
wpwrako yes, i'm pretty sure that my work will outlast me :) i've planted my tree. and can worry about other things now ;-)08:30
rohhrhr08:31
kyaklinux kernel, huh? i don't know if it still will be around in 50 years ;) Anyway, it seems like a good place to plant your tree08:32
wpwrakanyway ... let's see how my toys are doing. ah, still waiting for customs to finish the morning coffee.08:38
wpwrakargh. i just realized that the prototypes for adam will reach him just around CNY :-(09:33
kyakxiangfu: i had an idea. could you make {clean,compile} another qt app? NanoMap, for instance09:33
kyakand see if it works09:34
kyakxiangfu: for the mplayer, it's my bad, there was ac=mad in /root/.mplayer/config.. i changed it to tremor now, and ogg files should play fine.. however you could have a look at "mplayer -ac help" for a list of codecs and choose..09:35
kyak..the one appropriate for your file09:35
kyakxiangfu: if NanoMap is broken after rebuild, then this might indicate some problem in your toolchain, perhaps some libs discrepancy09:37
xiangfukyak: will try rebuild NanoMap, (I guess it will works fine). now I start rebuild NanoMap09:40
kyakxiangfu: thanks09:43
xiangfukyak: ok. finish rebuild NanoMap. works just fine.09:56
xiangfukyak: there may something relate with 32bit 64 bit system,09:56
xiangfukyak: there : move :  nethack, qt4-demos, stardict-dit-en-cn, qt4-examples gcc-mips make binutiles xz, totally about 37MB.09:56
xiangfu<xiangfu> those will build as modules, not inside ubi rootfs image.09:56
xiangfu<wolfspraul> ouch, I like them09:56
xiangfu<wolfspraul> well if it's between you and your image, go ahead you have the power :-)09:56
xiangfu<wolfspraul> are the qt4-demos and qt4-examples actually working? last time I checked they weren't09:56
xiangfu<Jay7> btw, I've found 3 good looking console mp3 players - cmus, gamp and mp3blaster09:56
xiangfu* panda|x201 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)09:56
xiangfu<xiangfu> kyak: after install libggi, libgii, libaa, svgalib, giflib, fribidi, libspeex, libtheora, the mplayer working.09:56
xiangfu<xiangfu> but can not play the sample audio file in the nanonote.09:56
xiangfu 09:56
xiangfu* Loaded log from Tue Jan 25 17:45:24 201109:57
xiangfu 09:57
xiangfu* Now talking on09:57
xiangfusorry. typo.09:57
xiangfuCtrl + C, Ctrl + V not work well.09:57
xiangfukyak,  here is the zImage build under 64bit and 32bit system, http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/xbboot/09:58
xiangfuonly the 32bit version can boot in nanonote. 64bit have some problem.09:58
qi-bot[commit] kyak: gottet: fixed size 320x240 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/22e511a12:34
wpwrakhmm, the photos i took of board flaws were useful. some of them, i couldn't spot with the naked eye and had to look them up in the picture ;-)13:37
wpwrakzrafa: (speaking ben) nice ! that was with the ben's speaker ?16:00
zrafawpwrak: no, I plugged it to external speakers.. but no much more quality with external.. those suck. With ben speaker it has very similar sound output16:31
zrafaas video.16:31
zrafawpwrak: I needed to use external speakers to put those near to the cam, because it was a bit far from nn (i used zoom to record)16:36
wpwrakzrafa: ah, i thought it sounded surprisingly good for an internal speaker. and yes, particularly because cameras aren't good at catching sounds from that angle. nice solution :)18:43
zrafawpwrak: well, the sound is very similar from nn, it is surprisingly a good speaker. :)19:04
kristianpaulhola19:40
kristianpaulLook what i found :-) http://wiki.linuxencaja.net/wiki/SIE19:55
kristianpaulIs good to know that somebody cares for mirroring or keeping this work forward19:56
wpwrakkristianpaul: it still confuses me endlessly that the logo looks exactly like an antenna ;-)20:15
kristianpaulhe, true20:16
kristianpaulyay !!22:05
kristianpaulwpwrak: quick update, seems i had a MAC generated by ramdon when i wipedout M1 nand,22:05
kristianpaulit was a multicast mac addr, it seems22:05
kristianpaulanyway, i put default mac and it works now (telnet)22:06
kristianpaulnow is time for ttcp :D22:06
wolfspraulkristianpaul: congrats! :-)22:12
wolfspraulthe sufferings of pioneers...22:13
kristianpaulnow i realize MAC addressing is a misthery for me22:13
kristianpauloh yes, one single bit and i jsut fall in the multicast trap22:15
kristianpaulhttps://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/MAC_address22:15
wolfspraulxiangfu: we need a better strategy for the data partition23:36
wolfspraulfirst I think the rootfs should always try to mount it when booting23:36
wolfspraulif it can be done in the background/in parallel with other booting, that may (or may not) speed up the entire boot process, but in any case I think we should try to auto-mount it23:37
wolfspraulcan we just add it to fstab?23:38
xiangfuwolfspraul: no. can not add to fstab. I have searched a lot.23:38
wolfspraulok then we just add a little mount script maybe?23:39
wolfsprauland where should we mount it?23:40
xiangfuhow about /root/data ?23:40
kristianpaula init script?23:41
xiangfuthere is one problem is we need format the data first.23:41
xiangfuand create volume on the data partition.23:42
kristianpaulor just mount it after gmen2x..23:42
xiangfuthe ubifs support multi volumes.23:42
xiangfulike we can create data1: 400M  data2: 1G23:42
xiangfuwe should have default format script in /usr/bin/23:42
kristianpaulyou mean format the data first when?23:43
xiangfukristianpaul: that is the problem. we let user manually format it or what , I am not sure.23:43
kristianpaulxburst tools can help?23:44
wolfspraulxiangfu: not even more partitions23:44
xiangfuxburst tools can format it by flash an empty ubi image to nand.23:44
kristianpaulwell something like a script just executed at first power up and the delete it self23:44
wolfspraulone partition is enough23:45
wolfspraul/root/data is long, I suggest /data or /home23:46
kristianpaulno data partition? one partition for all data  + rootfs you mean?23:46
kristianpaulah i see23:46
wolfspraulno I mean not more partitions inside that partition23:46
kristianpauloh, of course not !23:46
wolfspraulkristianpaul: yeah, but xiangfu just suggested data1 and data2 :-)23:46
kristianpaulno no !! xiangfu :-)23:46
kristianpauljust one data, to keep us sane :-)23:46
wolfsprauleven the 1 data partition is a headache, but let's move as carefully as possible now23:46
xiangfuwolfspraul: no I am not suggest, I just saying it support :)23:46
wolfspraulok, but 'no thanks'23:47
wolfspraulI think don't worry about formatting now, first we should add an auto-mount into the boot process23:47
wolfspraulthen either it will be ubi-formatted out of the factory (it may be already, I forgot), or it's a one-time step one needs to do for now23:47
wolfspraulbut the important thing is that the boot process should try to auto-mount, and fail gracefully if there is a problem23:48
xiangfuwolfspraul: yes.23:48
wolfspraulmy vote is for /home23:48
wolfspraulhmm, or maybe not maybe the non-standard /data is better so people don't think too much about the normal use of /home23:49
wolfspraulok, maybe /data23:49
wolfspraulkristianpaul: what do you think?23:49
kristianpaulI think it should point /home and make sure the apps ie, gmu point that too for data :-)23:50
kristianpaulpoint to that*23:50
wolfsprauloh sure, that's the second step23:50
xiangfuping ping23:50
wolfspraulso /home ?23:50
kristianpaulpong xiangfu23:50
kristianpauli wonder is ther is a /home in open wrt23:51
xiangfukristianpaul: no23:51
kristianpaulas i checked last time it was /root23:51
kristianpaulthe only home-like folder23:51
kristianpauland if some apps already point to /root/.the_app_config, then choose root better23:53
wolfspraulis there a /home in jlime?23:53
wolfspraulmaybe /data is better for jlime compatibility23:53
kristianpaullet me check23:53
kristianpaul/home/root23:55
kristianpauljlime^23:55
kristianpaulgood my print job is done,23:56
kristianpauli'm off23:56
kristianpaulread you in some hrs23:56
--- Wed Jan 26 201100:00

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