#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2011-01-22

qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: plplot: fix package generation errors (created copies of libs instead of links) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e75033d05:29
qi-bot[commit] kyak: gottet:Tetris clone written in Qt, adapted for Ben http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/325a43c06:39
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: plplot: fix plplot package to include _all_ libraries that ship with plplot http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/c32c23406:56
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: plplot: mark plplot-python as broken and explain why that is so. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/31e8e5b07:28
wpwrakah, new feature at fedex: you can now pick the time zone relative to which the scans times are shown. e.g., Jan 21, 2011 8:08 PM Shipment information sent to FedEx08:36
wpwraknow let's try something easy, "origin" time zone. that would be the US, fedex home turf. undefined NaN, NaN NaN:NaN AM Shipment information sent to FedEx08:36
wpwrakvery interesting. at least we know it's morning there ;-)08:37
kristianpaulnice tftpclient works with a simple string, lets try something bigger09:46
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: stdpass.fpd: enlarged 0402 and 0603 footprint http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e29769009:48
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: stdpass.fpd: set outline clearance (courtyard) to 0.15/0.25 mm of IPC-7351B http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/7c6227709:48
rohwpwrak: oh.. i see you had fun with footprints10:44
rohnice mail10:45
wpwrakstill having more fun. the qfns still lurk ...10:47
rohsee it that way: anything you do there, lots of embedded hackers will profit from10:48
wpwrakthe rules adam suggested are a bit more sophisticated than the virtual shrug you get from most data sheets, but if you look at NXP's material, then you see that there's quite a lot more to them10:48
rohthe qi-hw 'development' of getting a toolchain and data to build hw from ideas is a really important step in my opinion. we need an alternative to eagle for the community.10:49
wpwrakyeah. the next step is then a mass-produced cheap mill for making pcbs :)10:49
rohmost importantly: getting all these rules being developed real-world tested10:49
wpwrakand then, pick and place :)10:49
wpwrakyup. the real-world tests are the scary part :)10:50
rohwpwrak: hehe... true. i'd like to own a picknplace machine... just need.. more space first10:50
rohbut i would be glad to have something which generates proper layouts from completely foss tools10:50
wpwrakfor p&p, i wonder if one couldn't make a machine that just picks components from a high-density loose container, such as a pill box or my vial tray. so you'd de-tape first, and then the p&p would figure out how to get the components out and oriented10:51
rohi dont need to manufacture all parts myself. i would be happy with having the possibility to order proper pcbs without using the vendor tools of the service company10:51
wpwrak(generates proper layouts) you mean design or produce (i.e., make boards) ?10:51
roheh. yes10:52
wpwrakoh, that should be fine. we have nice gerbers :) we're not the first ones to use kicad :)10:52
rohtrue. but there is a lot of difference between a tool spitting out 'something you can work with' or something 'you can mass produce' with a serious yield10:53
rohthats where your tolerances make a big difference10:53
wpwrakah yes, that's true10:54
kristianpaul(yeah. the next step is then a mass-produced cheap mill for making pcbs) wow, really? :-)10:55
rohthese yamaha picknplace machiens are funny to watch10:55
rohkristianpaul: no. milling is nice for prototypes. completely crap for anything automated or mass-produced10:55
rohyou by far cannot reach the details needed to live without rework. also running-costs are quite high for all rapid prototyping technologies10:56
rohmilling is fine for 'simple' stuff.. werner is already kicking the limits of home-brewn pcb witj the qfn... but these were etched and toner-transfered, not milled, right?10:57
wpwrakroh: (milling) i mean for cutting/drilling the boards. i'd still use etching for the layout.10:57
rohatben/atusb boards10:57
rohi see.10:57
wpwrakroh: with HCl+H2O2, you basically have no waste acid to dispose, because the volume is so small. just put it outside, let the water evaporate, then throw away the solids.10:58
wpwrakwell, or collect them, if you want10:58
rohwpwrak: mmh..  still not good for me. i dont have any space left for a chemics lab stm10:58
roheh atm10:59
wpwrakyou need about 50x50 cm, maybe less. some large plastic basic to work inside, so that things don't spill outside10:59
rohwpwrak: we currently already host a small biolab... could use a second floor at the lab11:00
wpwrakthen i have one of the large low glass forms used for the oven inside, again to contain spills. this one is expected to get spills from time to time.11:00
rohand the rooms with all the dirt(saw, milling, turning dust) arent a good fit for chemicals11:01
wpwrakah .. biolab sounds like a good excuse for not cleaning. i have to remember this ;-))11:01
wpwrakthe chemistry is quite simple11:01
rohnaah. real biolab. a friend of ours experiments with gen-foo11:01
rohelectrophoresis and such11:01
wpwrak(gen-foo) that's what i'd say, too. breeding extra-efficiently-gnat-killing spiders :)11:02
wpwrak(chem) the main problem are the corrosive vapours. already if you keep a bottle of HCl inside, some will escape and look for a victim11:03
Action: roh wishes for _much_ more space including funding and doing some proper seperation of the dirt problem11:03
wpwrak(chem) then prepared acid also produces corrosive fumes11:03
rohwpwrak: true. i know corrosion in all forms now.11:03
wpwrakif you have a balcony, that would be the place to put all these things11:03
rohwhen playing with kilograms of batteries.... one sees nasty things11:03
rohever held about 4.5kg of lithium?11:04
wpwrakor i have a little green box on the terrace ... with contents that aren't all that "green" ;-)11:04
wpwrakreal men don't just hold it. they LICK it ;-)11:04
rohno balcony... also that wouldnt work well.. its berlin so outside temperatures are about 4°C atm. and can be between -20°C and +35°C in the shadow easily over the year11:05
wpwraksounds okay11:05
rohreal lab would mean having a second fridge with labels and the chemicals in there11:05
wpwrakdon't know at what point HCL freezes, though11:05
rohnot having the vodka bottle for drinking right next to a box with stuff i know it is 'mutagen'11:06
wpwraksure. real lab. but you can get things done with a lot less11:06
rohtrue. but i want that warm fuzzy feelting back11:06
wpwrakall my nasty chemicals vanish quite easily when necessary11:07
rohever had a battery acid spill to clean up?11:07
wpwrakthe workspace is a box with drawer. normally sits in the kitchen, for easy access to water, but when the kitchen has to be more habitable, i carry it over to the mech lab11:08
wpwrakyes, in a car11:08
wpwrakeventually, the car suffered structural failure, but at a completely different place11:08
rohi was cleaning the table and noticed some clean liquid11:09
wpwraknaw, what i'm saying is that the HCl+H2O2 process is ideal for home use because it's so efficient and produces little waste11:09
rohwhen it started doing things with the piece of cloth i was using i washed my hands and started using gloves and one-way towels11:09
rohok. i will come back to that when i get annoyed doing outline milling ;)11:10
wpwrakyou just have to make sure the vapours don't have too much time to mess up things. so keep the HCl outdoors and unused acid as well. (well, you could collect it, but that seems somewhat pointless)11:10
wpwrak(acid surprise) nice ;-)11:11
rohyeah. i am quite lucky that all MY batteries are lithium based or encapsuled lead-gel. no single one with liquid stuff in it.. thats all the motorcycle crews stuff11:11
rohthey are also removing the acid now. replacing their batteries with lifepo4.. helps reducing weight of the cacle11:12
rohsome even remove the generator (lichtmaschine) to reduce the weight. lifepo4 has enough energy to run the electronics for regular trips (recharing at home)11:13
rohcrazy stuff11:13
wpwrak:) maybe search the bins of project orion for some more efficient power sources11:14
rohi think our issue is storing and transporting energy. converting them i see as widely solved issue11:15
wpwrakhence project orion :)11:26
rjeffrieswerner are you here?13:01
wpwrakeating .. can't type much, but i can read what you write13:09
rjeffriesyour priorites (eating over hacking) sure are screwed up. <g>13:10
rjeffrieswhat would be the technical challenge to a card that plug into 8:10 (gag) slot on Ben, that has send and recieve LEDs to control a TV etc?13:12
rjeffriesthere are chips that decode RC5/RC6 I am guessing that this would be sorta ugly but that's OK13:16
rjeffrieswith such a chip, Ben read  and writes a serial data stream to the remoote control dongle13:17
rjeffriesnot sure if BEN can also supply enough power however13:18
wpwrakmmh, you could use a chip that just detects the carrier13:18
wpwrakmodulation is usually/always? OOK13:18
rjeffriesnot sure I will check that13:19
rjeffriesa randow resource: http://hackaday.com/2008/10/30/how-to-usb-remote-control-receiver/13:19
rjeffriesit is however receive only13:19
rjeffriesshould we ever design Ya Nanonote and can make at least small mods to case, having IR LEDS for remote control (and other) uses would mean13:21
rjeffriesBen could be hacked to serve as a very nice smart remote. Those things are pricey, some well more than price of Ben.13:22
rjeffriesthanks for that13:24
wpwrakshould be a nice beginner's project :) did something like this ~5 years ago, with a PIC. the ben should be more than sufficient13:25
rjeffriesdoes Ben have enough power to spare?13:33
wpwrakfor sending, you probably just need an IR LED. use SD clock for carrier13:33
wpwrakyeah. LEDs draw ~20 mA. you can get > 100, I think13:33
rjeffrieswhere does one find your stuff? http://projects.qi-hardware does not seem to have entry for atben13:40
wpwrakand las but not least http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/ :)13:42
wpwraki think that's all i have there13:43
rjeffriesI did look at wernermisc13:47
rjeffriesdumb question: where would I find PDF of say schematic for atben?13:50
wpwrakright here http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/atben/pdf_atben.pdf13:50
wpwrakhere's more: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/13:51
rjeffriesthanks wpwrak found and have skimmed master/TODO14:01
wpwrakmaster/ ... where's that ?14:02
wpwrakah, you mean ben-wpan/TODO14:03
wpwrakit's a bit obsolete. don't even remember what has changed since14:03
wpwrakhmm. a lot :)14:03
rjeffriesnot a biggie just getting 30K foot overview14:05
rjeffriesare you the one who made the brakout board for th 8:10 slot?14:06
wpwrakit's the state of some 4 months ago14:06
wpwrakthe original idea and design is from Rikard Lindstrom14:07
wpwraki think it was in the community news a while ago14:09
rjeffriesthanks. how did you read my mind? that is spooky14:09
steve|mwpwrak: hehe, reminds me of something I did for testing some while back: http://www.steve-m.de/steve/gallerie/sdcarddummy/CIMG913714:10
kristianpaulPIC !14:13
steve|mattiny! msp430! :P14:14
wpwraksteve|m: nice :) didn't know you could do all this without even etching14:15
wpwrakkristianpaul: yeah, i know ... sins of the youth ...14:15
kristianpaulsteve|m: cool, 8:10 card14:20
wpwrakkristianpaul: looks like a 9:24 card to me :)14:21
rjeffriessteve|m so you do some MSP430 hacking? their Launchpad for $4.30 was irresistable for me. n=315:10
rjeffrieswpwrak waht frequency is the clock that come out the 8:10 connector15:12
steve|mrjeffries: well, I got 2 launchpads some weeks back and definitely will do something with them.. I want to build a ultra low-power epaper clock with a MSP430 and the display of a motorola F315:13
steve|mI was quite amazed, since everything worked out of the box.. and the "mspdebug" tool is awesome15:14
steve|m2KB flash isn't that much, though15:15
rjeffriessteve|m yes, that MSP430 Launchpad kit is very nice. TI must be subsiding it $10 or $15 a pop, just to capture new designs. Great for the hobby crowd15:17
rjeffriessteve where are you located15:17
steve|mnear FRA/germany15:18
rohrjeffries: msp430 community is strong but small i think15:18
rohalso not all variants are supported by gcc yet i think15:18
steve|mbut the "support" mostly is register definitions which can be easily added15:19
rohsure. still a lot of people are quite resistant to hacking up a working compiler before doing a project ;)15:20
steve|mhttp://losinggeneration.homelinux.org/2010/07/02/msp430-launchpad-on-linux/ <- basically that's what I've done so far + a blinking led ;)15:21
steve|mah, no.. it was http://hackaday.com/2010/08/11/how-to-launchpad-programming-with-linux/ actually15:22
steve|mroh: and of course, the TIUSB chip they use as usb interface has a 8051 core :P15:24
steve|moh, cool.. the girltech im-me is available at amazon UK :)15:48
wpwrakrjeffries: you can program the clock dividers. you can probably set it within a wide range, particularly if you're not afraid of changing the system's main clock :)15:50
rjeffrieswprak thx for clock info. you are NOT using theclick from BEN on atben correct? (you had to add  xtal?)15:52
wpwrakyeah. i tried to use it, but it turned out to have slight imperfections that made it not work properly for atben.15:55
wpwraksee here http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tst-cw/15:55
wpwrakvs. here http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/redesign-xtal/15:56
viricsteve|m: what is that?15:56
steve|mviric: a girl-toy with a TI CC1110F3216:00
steve|mhacked to be a spectrum analyzer ;)16:00
virica girl toy?16:00
viricthere the link fails, for the ImMe16:00
steve|mviric: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_P0xofdCgmno/S5_9oOV-qwI/AAAAAAAAAYA/hIFsZxE3EfY/s1600-h/ultrawide.jpeg isn't it beautiful? :P16:01
viricyes, good program16:02
wpwrakrjeffries: and if all else fails, you could also generate the ~38 kHz carrier also with software. less efficient, but it'll work.16:18
rohnice hack. unfortunately the devices aren't avail in .de16:28
steve|mroh: yeah, only amazon.co.uk for 9.95 pound + 9,95 for shipping, which is something like 23¬ currently16:31
steve|mbasically you get 2 radios - it comes with an usb stick16:32
rohhm... i never ordered at amazon16:33
rohdoes that work with a german amazon account?16:34
steve|msure.. but needs a credit card for payment16:34
steve|mroh: you want one? there's a pack of 2 for £17.84, so (price + 3,90 dhl shipping to you) / 2 would be something like 17,95¬16:39
rohfor something like 10Euro, sure16:40
steve|myeah, true.. it's much cheaper in the US16:40
rohi am just hesitant to waste too much time getting weird shit sent from 'out of europe'. eats a lot of time and money usually16:40
steve|m17,95 would be the price for one actually16:44
rohuh. i see.16:45
rohwell.. 20E is also ok for some new toy16:45
steve|mroh: okay, then I'll order a double-pack16:48
kristianpauldamit ttcp gives and nicelly RX Fifo overflow...17:43
kristianpaullekernel: when no rtems support, how do you tested minimac and basic tcp/ip comunication on mm1?17:44
lekernelwhat's ttcp?17:49
kristianpaulnice net tool for measuring troughtput17:49
kristianpaulSo far my tests shows that there is a problem with tcp replies from rtems...17:50
kristianpaulin wich tftpd is not affected as it just pull? files from the indicated server17:51
lekernelthere are tons of problems with ethernet on rtems17:51
kristianpaulbut when i try the httpd or telnet examples, oh dear..17:51
lekerneldunno. works for me ~8% of the time17:51
kristianpaulyeah i'm just realizing it now ;-)17:52
lekernelI have no time, really17:52
lekernelFallenou was supposed to fix it, but he didn't17:52
kristianpaulok, i'll check what seems to be the problem, i really need ethernet for my tests17:53
Action: kristianpaul suscribes ro rtems mail list :-)17:53
kristianpauloh this is qi :p17:56
larscthis is SPARTA(N)!18:02
wpwrakand packet seem to be jumping off the FIFO well enough ... :)18:03
lekernelkristianpaul: please ask fallenou about network problems18:05
kristianpaullekernel: i did on irc yday, but no reply so far..18:05
lekernelhe was paid for that18:05
kristianpaulI think i'll better ask on ml18:05
kristianpaulah yes,, gsoc stundents !!18:06
lekernelyeah, and I didn't test his stuff well enough. if i ever participate in gsoc again, i'll have a totalitarian policy about bugs and stability18:07
wpwrakall those executions at dawn ...18:08
lekerneli.e. you won't pass until your code is rock solid under the worst possible conditions of stress18:08
kristianpaulstress ethernet !! this is_ real_time_ so  i want the 10MBps troughput ;-)18:10
wpwrakroh: do Atmel publish footprints anywhere ? all i see are package definitions18:11
wpwraklekernel: reminds me of the time when i worked at IBM research. back then, IBM still liked token ring a lot more than anything else. we had just gotten new workstations. they had as a brand-new feature ... ethernet. i did a ping -f on a colleague's station. the box crashed to hard even the reset button didn't work ;-)) so you see, even major products from reputable companies aren't necessarily tested all that well.18:15
lekernelunfortunately, I did test the thing with ping -f18:15
lekernelit works18:16
lekernelbut large packets do a lot more damage18:16
lekernelit's actually so crappy that transferring a few megabytes over FTP often crashes it18:17
lekernelas long as you have big packets, the bugs manifest themselves18:18
wpwrakthat's nasty18:19
kristianpaulno icmp works!!, not fully tcp :/18:19
kristianpaulah is packet size a problem..18:20
kristianpauli'll try hping later18:20
wpwrakwhere does rtem's tcp/ip stack actually come from ? diy ?18:20
kristianpaulor bsd-like..18:21
wpwrakkristianpaul: ping -s  for the packet size18:21
rohwpwrak: dunno. they got a lot of pdfs online18:21
wpwrakroh: ;-))18:21
wpwrakroh: i've been sifting through that haystack for a while ... but haven't spotted any needles yet :)18:21
kristianpaulwpwrak: yeah sure, but i dont transmit valuable data on icmp,  i need some tcp ack,rst,syn stress tests :-) hping to rescue !18:22
wpwrakkristianpaul: the losses probably occur even if the data isn't valuable ... :)18:24
kristianpauli also had bad luck trying make a session with a socket,  used netcat, but timeout popup first, i'll re check but is almost same behavior than in telnet, httpd, ...18:24
wpwrakkristianpaul: guess you have to fix that ethernet first18:25
kristianpaulwpwrak: may be UDP it is fast i used it for VPN at work18:25
kristianpaulit seems18:25
kristianpaulI just make sure what is the problem..18:25
wpwrakkristianpaul: if it's a packet size problem, you could try to lower the MTU18:25
kristianpaulapart from the TX FIFO thign :\18:25
kristianpaulhmm i dint ought on MTU, thanks for poiting !18:26
wpwrakthere ought to be a switch somewhere for changing the MSS, too. that would be less intrusive. but PMTU discovery may do a good enough job if you tweak the MTU. just don't make it too small18:27
kristianpauldammm Minimac RX FIFO overflow!18:29
kristianpaulargg !18:29
rohheeeh. http://forum.atmel.com/showthread.php?t=114218:29
kristianpaulnow i can realize this is randon, httpd sample was okay last time i tried :-|18:29
wpwrakroh: @$*#%!18:30
rohwpwrak: what about using the footprints you have now and touch them only if neccessary?18:31
wpwrakroh: i think i'd drive adam nuts with these :)18:31
wpwrakroh: i found some weird ones from wolfson. they have interesting solder paste patterns, star-shaped. http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/WAN0118.pdf18:32
rohwell.. in the end we cant have support for all possibilities. and to be fair, i dont think any vendor does. my bet is that most just have one footprint for every 'string' like 'qfn84' and use that for all chips with the same 'string'18:32
wpwrakroh: oh, you ain't seen nothing yet ;-)18:33
wpwrakroh: NXP alone have about three variants18:34
wpwrakroh: intersil have 4 (for QFN32) at last count18:34
wpwrakroh: (3 NXP variants) for QFN28 and QFN32 each18:35
kristianpaulIs all this discuss about NXP because a foot print-fix recomendation from Adam btw?18:35
wpwrakroh: some of them have very detailed land patterns. alas, the ones that are similar to what i need don't18:35
rohwpwrak: the question is: do they fail when soldering in reality?18:36
wpwrakkristianpaul: yeah. they don't resonate well with the material i found18:36
rohi mean... are you saying we cant have one 'qfn32'-layout which works for all components?18:36
wpwrakroh: would kinda suck to find out :)18:36
wpwrakroh: the problem is the center pad. huge variations where.18:37
kristianpaulwpwrak: dont trust manuals? :-)18:37
wpwrakkristianpaul: i would trust them if they did actually document that stuff ...18:37
rohwpwrak: sure.. 'special' stuff needs special footprints (amps, ldo, pmu, stuff that dissipates heat that way)18:37
wpwrak(intersil) sorry, not four. it's 5.18:39
wpwrakroh: things also seem to depend on how the case is cut and such. sure, you can have a "generic" footprint that works most of the time in the lab, but ...18:41
rohsure. i still think we should only add footprint deviations to 'the lib' when needed, not for every new chip18:43
rohthat way we would go nuts and not solve any real problems but more the theoretical ones... and it can still go bad. you know yourself how wrong documentation can be. rather stay on the design, prototype, test, rethink loop evaluating the real world18:44
rohthe latter one is known to work well, and the foss community gives us good chance for crowdsourcing some of the rather annoying gruntwork which could be needed for some kind of testing, or inputting data. i was quite impressed about that in gta02 (how many people startet looking at the schems and commented on stuff)18:45
wpwrakroh: i'm just doing the chips i need for atben/atusb ...18:50
wpwrakroh: http://pastebin.com/Kz48YCkt19:00
wpwrakat least the pins on the outside are reasonably similar. only the Intersil L32.5x5E deviates.19:01
kristianpaullol https://gist.github.com/79163819:05
rohwpwrak: the values are min/typ/max?19:05
rohkristianpaul: hrrr. where is that from? the rtems source?19:07
wpwrakof course, then we get this: http://pastebin.com/TtpfR5jz19:07
wpwrakluckily, silabs do provide a footprint19:08
kristianpaulroh: yup, seems to a netdemo example19:09
kristianpaulroh: git://github.com/fallen/network-demos.git19:10
rohhm. how is it configured on the mm1?19:26
rohand why are the buffersizes 0?19:27
kristianpaulhe, too much questions, i cant answer now ;-)19:32
kristianpaulgive me some days19:32
kristianpaulbtw you have a M1 too isnt??19:33
kristianpaulif so, grab rtems examples and see it your self :-)19:34
rohi only have a mechanical protoype right now (no chips soldered, only sockets)19:44
rohwill get a rc2 next month19:44
kristianpaulgood :-D19:45
rohthe .v files are verilog?19:50
kristianpaulyes sr19:50
rohsomehow it seems much less code than i expected20:01
kristianpaulwhat are you looking at?20:02
rohthe .v files in boards/milkymist-one/rtl20:02
wpwrakmmu.v :)20:02
kristianpaulwpwrak: ;_)20:02
kristianpaulroh: top files are not so big (besides wishbone blablahblah..), check the cores :-)20:03
rohsure. but isnt that the idea? splitting complexity into modules till small enough for our tiny puny human brainz?20:04
kristianpaulah, you mean sebastien brain? :-)20:05
rohi dont yet get even half of what this source does i guess ;)20:06
rohbut i dont know verilog.. so i have atleast something to learn20:06
kristianpaulwpwrak: you think mmu is trivial to do? (actually so far i dint check literature about it)20:06
roh1'b0 means 1 'line' with the Binary value of 0 ?20:06
kristianpaul1 bit20:07
roh4'hd is funny.20:07
wpwrakkristianpaul: trivial if you don't care about efficiency. non-trivial if you do :)20:07
rohwhat does 1'bz mean? is z something like 'tristate' (not 1, not 0, please float)?20:08
rohi guess i should find the right book for me.20:08
wpwrakkristianpaul: for a dead-simple MMU, you just need one register set: current page virtual address, current page physical address. for each mmu'ed access, you compare with the virtual address. if there's a match, you substitute the upper address bits with the phy addr register.20:09
wpwrakkristianpaul: if there's a mismatch, you do a trap/supervisor call/whatever. the trap also disables the mmu until you return from it.20:10
wpwrakkristianpaul: the trap handler then walks the page tables in software and provides the new entry20:11
wpwrakkristianpaul: (for the trap handler, you also need to provide the address that caused the trap)20:11
wpwrakkristianpaul: all this assumes that your instructions that touch memory are restartable after a trap. if not, things get more complicated.20:12
kristianpaulWhat think linux about that?20:12
wpwrakkristianpaul: well, you have to implemenent the usual paging code of course20:13
wpwrakkristianpaul: that is page table handling. define a structure, access functions, intialization, and so on.20:13
larscroh: z is floating20:16
rohand what does x mean?20:16
larscmatches everything if used in a case statement20:17
rohso 64'bx just means '64 lines, dont care which state yet' ?20:17
larsci guess so20:17
rohhmm. that needs some getting used to20:18
larscif run an simulation and see an x it could aslo be that there are multiple drivers setting different values for the bus20:19
larscif you run ...20:20
kristianpaulroh: what also need time to used: how to rightly wire modules; the concurrent "programing"  thinking20:22
kristianpaulanyway verilog is interesting as it looks like C :-)20:23
kristianpauland be friendly with your synthesis tool :-)20:24
rohack. i somehow like verilog more than vhdl already20:24
rohthe vhdl code i got flying around is much more verbose and obscure20:25
Action: kristianpaul :-|20:26
rohverbose as in 'i dont get why they write down the same twice'20:27
wpwrakroh: vhdl:verilog = COBOL:C :)20:29
larscroh: you mean architecture and component?20:30
wpwraksimilarly, SDL:Promela = COBOL:C :)20:30
kristianpaulwait wait, was not vhdl Ada like?20:32
wpwrakwell, ADA is not necessarily a more flattering comparison ;-)20:33
larsckristianpaul: yes it was/is20:34
rohlarsc: more like syntax and concept20:41
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: qfn.fpd: added measurements and improved design of the central pad http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8703fc123:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: updated for 0402 resizing http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/e4f38d223:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.sch: rearranged spacing in schematics to make more room at the feed line http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/77a302923:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: introduced optional antenna matching capacitor http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8b6274123:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: replaced old chip components with updated ones http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/836c89e23:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: introduced optional antenna matching capacitor http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/30aff8123:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: rearranged component references and values for printing/display http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1d2fdb323:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: BOOKSHELF: added the ATmega32U2 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2dab09923:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: qfn.fpd: corrected center pads, and general cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/3a59aef23:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: set AT86F231 footprint to QFN32-VHHD-6 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/059d28223:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd: added external ground traces to VSS pins adjacent to RF http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/ea05b1923:52
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.sch, atben.brd: bumped version to 20110123 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/714295923:52
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: updated C8051F326 and AT86RF321 footprints http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1f959d923:52
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: added title, origin, and license on silk screen layer http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1b5abff23:52
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.sch, atrf.sch, usb.sch, atusb.brd: bumped version to 20110123 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bcc8ea723:52
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd, atusb.brd: added design name (ATBEN, ATUSB) to silk screen text http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/83b903d23:52
--- Sun Jan 23 201100:00

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