#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2010-12-25

wolfspraulwpwrak_: you can try it out http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/wolfgang/kicad_patches/02:49
wolfspraulwith pcbnew --help you see an overview02:49
yizhanganyone knows where is user's manual  for sdcv - console dictionary?03:58
yizhangany doc will help03:59
yizhangafter i get in, i am stock :(03:59
yizhangstuck03:59
DocScrutinizerDoc would love to help :-D04:00
yizhangDocScrutinizer: at least Doc made me laugh :D04:01
kyakyizhang: what kind of user manual do you expect? just type in!04:16
yizhangkyak: actually i only want to know some controls04:17
yizhangfor example: to press which key to exit program04:17
kyakctrl+c, obviously04:17
yizhangkyak: oh, thanks. we have use all sorts of key combinations for exiting the program04:19
yizhangkyak: have tried ctrl + q, esc, ctrl + esc04:19
yizhangjust not ctrl+c04:19
yizhangbad luck04:19
yizhangkyak: thanks04:20
yizhangfor next program, i have one more to try ;)04:20
kyaki guess i misjudged again what "common knowledge" is...04:20
yizhangor, know less is better than know more ...04:21
kyakthat's a questionable statement04:22
yizhangctrl+d also works :)04:24
kyakgood, you've discovered EOF!04:27
yizhangi found that ctrl+d is to go back to gmenu2x04:30
kristianpaulyizhang: http://kristianpaul.org/~paul/tmp/sdcv.107:27
kristianpaulyizhang: Hello btw :-)07:28
kristianpaulThats sdcv manpage, i guess open wrt ignores all documentation when building07:28
kristianpaulI hope it help you07:28
wolfspraulyes openwrt removes/ignores documentation, that's a bit of a problem on an offline/keyboard/screen device like the NanoNote07:29
yizhangkristianpaul: ah, thanks, let me check it out07:29
kristianpaulyizhang: if you open it with vim (with  :sintax on) will help too, as is a bit confusing read manpages sintax at first try (at least for me)07:32
kristianpaulFinally my tuner arrives, http://www.mtmscientific.com/tuner.html, this will be first contact with HAM radion before and save me money tryin to buy  a USRP ;-) (wich i dont *fully* understand how it works)07:39
kristianpauls/radion/radio07:39
wpwrak_kristianpaul: the price is much nicer than the usrp's :)08:17
kristianpaulwpwrak_: and i can listen satellite telemetry i think, :-) wich is what i  wanted in short term08:18
kristianpaulwpwrak_: how was fireworks yday?08:19
wolfspraulwpwrak_: hey good morning! :-) I finished my first round of kicad hacking08:20
wolfspraulnow awaiting your feedback... (not urgent, take your time)08:20
wolfspraulmy rough plan is like this, let me know what you think...08:20
wolfspraulfirst I wait and see whether it works for you, and whether you want changes08:20
wolfspraulif you feel it's ok, maybe we can move kicad-patches to eda-tools, then I can directly commit there08:21
wpwrak_kristianpaul: the party was nicely wild. everybody got wasted :)  the ignition of the fireworks failed mysteriously. haven't analyzed yet why. so we set them off manually after all. some 800 explosions in total :)08:21
wolfspraulif you uptick the kicad version, I suggest you just comment out those patches, and I will maintain them08:21
wolfsprauloh wow! :-)08:21
wolfspraulok let me finish the grand plan first. maybe in my next round of updates (after your feedback), I will already cleanup a bit more, make it more KiCad-style etc.08:22
wpwrak_wolfspraul: (patches) great ! let me regain a bit more control of myself, then i'll have a peek08:22
wolfspraulthen once it's a bit more stable, I will probably set it up on the server so that we can auto-generate a lot of files after commits08:22
wolfsprauloh sure :-)08:22
wolfspraulalso at some point I can email the kicad list a bit see whether someone is interested08:23
wolfspraulbut that's for later08:23
wpwrak_wolfspraul: btw, maybe a "wolfgangmisc" project would be useful for hosting bits and pieces like this ?08:23
wolfsprauldoes this plan sound about right?08:23
wolfspraulthat sounds like a junkyard08:23
wolfspraulit's a clean extension of kicad-patches, so I hope we can host your kicad patches and mine together?08:23
wolfspraullike I said I would just move them to eda-tools, sounds like the perfect place08:24
wpwrak_(junkyard) yup, that's the idea. a junkyard is a clearly defined place where all the junk goes :)08:24
wpwrak_yes, sounds good08:24
wolfspraulwe will probably need to maintain kicad-patches for a while, if not for good08:24
wpwrak_let's see what the powers that be think about them08:24
wolfspraulthat's why I'd say eda-tools/kicad-patches08:24
wolfsprauloh it's not clean enough yet, see my plan above first I'm curious whether it works for you, then improve/polish, then use on the server08:25
wpwrak_cool, you also bypassed the dialogs08:25
wpwrak_(errors/warnings)08:25
wolfspraulI tried several things, getting the hang of it.08:26
wolfspraullike I said actually in many places they separate between gui and data nicely.08:26
wolfspraulso I would not submit the entire patch like it is, instead I would just point them to the patch, and then submit small improvements to make for a cleaner separation between GUI and data path inside the KiCad sources.08:27
wolfspraulthat will help maintaining our cmdline patches.08:27
wpwrak_sounds good, yes08:28
wpwrak_just a moment ... need to reload dishwasher and get something caffeinated to drink ...08:28
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: added more spartan-6 documents to BOOKSHELF http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/394274a10:52
lekernelkristianpaul: you might be interested in this: http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/kdrive.html11:03
lekernela X server that sucks a little less than X.org...11:04
lekernelmight work on the NN11:04
lekernelsince most freet**d gui applications need a X server...11:05
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: some PSU passive components values has been selected http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/a77e91e13:04
andres-calderonwolfspraul: nice commit.13:07
kuribasHi, can I use the nanonote as a pda?13:14
kuribasIs there software that could be used or ported?13:15
wolfspraulandres-calderon: he, not much at all :-)13:21
wolfspraulI was traveling a bit and enjoyed the offlineness of dsv, but unfortunately I wanted to read more about the spartan-6 and couldn't...13:22
wolfspraulnext time I have a few more docs now :-)13:22
wolfspraulandres-calderon: another thing, I've added a few command line options to pcbnew, you mentioned that you wanted to look into this as well, but I already got to it.13:23
wolfspraulonce this is more stable (currently awaiting feedback from wpwrak_), I will bring it live on the qi server to automatically generate a bunch of files on commits13:23
kuribasHow well does the nanonote run debian?13:24
wolfspraulwhich will in turn help projects like xue because we can review and comment faster13:24
wolfspraulkuribas: I'd say it's very limited. main problem is 32mb memory only.13:24
wolfspraulboot time is slow, I think 1-2 minutes.13:24
kuribasI see.13:24
andres-calderonwolfspraul: I saw the irc-log, is a great idea.13:24
wolfspraulyou need a swap file on an external memory card for a lot of apps/actions.13:25
wolfspraulbut it is possible :-)13:25
wolfspraulandres-calderon: yes sure. not just idea, we will bring it live, guaranteed :-)13:25
kuribasdoes openwrt have xorg?13:26
wolfspraulI see you are doing some more xue work - great!13:26
wolfspraulkuribas: openwrt does have xorg as a selectable option, but I think most all of us who use openwrt have never tried to build such an image.13:26
wolfspraulI believe openwrt has the full glibc as well, but all I know is people using uclibc13:26
kuribasHm, jlime seems to be interesting, since it has a graphical interface.  I wonder, could I use the nanonote as a pda (for appointments, etc...)?13:29
wolfspraulyes you can, although I cannot tell you from my own personal experience now which app really works well for that13:31
wolfspraulI use mine for note taking, playing music, and soon hopefully english-chinese dictionary if I can find one that has pinyin display...13:31
andres-calderonwolfspraul:   I already selected a new regulators ICs. Still necessary to select the battery charger13:31
wolfspraulI wish I could use it for maps (openstreetmaps), but the client and ways to get maps to the device are not there yet13:32
wolfspraulthen I would like to use it as a time tracker, I need to get a bit of discipline into my daily schedule :-)13:32
wolfspraulbut no pim, sorry13:32
kuribasSomething simple would do.  On one of the screenshots there is a pim: http://www.jlime.com/wiki/documentation/user/nanonote/muffinman#sdl_on_framebuffer13:35
kuribasI might use this (a text based organiser): http://culot.org/calcurse/13:46
wolfspraulI've heard that before, let me see whether it's included in the latest openwrt image...13:47
wolfspraulyes, it's in 12-1413:48
wolfspraulyeah, just started and seems to work nice. well, there's an option for you...13:48
kuribasgreat :)13:54
kuribasCould I use a usb-mouse with the nanonote?14:33
wolfspraulno14:33
wolfspraulthe usb port is client only, so you can only use it to connect to your notebook/desktop14:33
kuribasIs it limited by the hardware?14:34
kuribasOr the kernel?14:34
wolfspraulyes14:34
wolfspraulno, hardware. definitely.14:34
kuribasOk, I see.14:34
wolfspraulno (sane) way to add USB host - many have tried :-)14:35
Jay7hm.. I've thought NN have usb-host..15:38
wolfspraulno, it doesn't15:38
Jay7anyway, about using NN as PDA15:38
Jay7some people are still using Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 (collie) as PDA15:38
Jay7and Zaurus SL-C700/75015:38
Jay7pxa255/32Mb ram15:39
Jay7but with keyboard and touchscreen15:39
kuribasHow easy is it to type on the keyboard?  I am also interested in playing interactive fiction (text adventures).  I used to play them on my palm zire 21, which is broken now.  But typing with the stylo is very slow.15:40
kuribasI wonder if typing on the NN is faster.15:40
Jay7kuribas: keyboard quality is good imho15:40
Jay7case is good even15:40
wolfspraulinteractive fiction, nice!15:41
kuribasTyping goes reasonably fast?  (after a bit of practice)15:41
Jay7but small screen, small ram and no any mouse-like input method killing it15:41
kuribasJay7: you don't need that for int-fic.  I am not sure about the ram though...15:42
Jay7kuribas: well.. just typing english text is ok15:42
wolfspraulkuribas: oh it should be OK. Nick Montfort bought a NanoNote and I think he likes it :-)15:43
wolfspraulwe tentatively agreed to bring some of his works (Curveship etc) to the Ben, but progress is slow...15:43
wolfspraulat least upon Nick's suggestion we added frotz, for example15:44
wolfspraulhttp://nickm.com/15:44
kuribasnice :)15:44
Action: Jay7 still dreaming about motherboard/screen replacement/upgrade toolkit for Zaurus C1000/C3x0015:44
Jay7I've seen OpenMoko people was doing something like for Neo15:45
valhallaI've had a NanoNote for about 3-4 hours and the keyboard looks nice :)15:45
Jay7valhalla: hello here too :)15:45
Jay7NN's case and keyboard quality is very good really15:46
wolfspraulI agree, but hey, I manufacture the thing so that is the textbook definition of 'biased', I guess :-)15:46
Jay7but not sure about capability to get multiple simultaneous keypresses15:47
Jay7anyway, for MUD-like games it should be fine imho :)15:49
kuribasWouldn't it be nice if the next version had a touchscreen?15:49
Jay7then it should have bigger screen15:50
Jay7*larger15:50
Jay7then it should have more ram and faster SoC/CPU15:51
Jay7then it will be expensive :)15:51
kuribasI see.  What about support for an external mouse?15:51
Jay7at least usb-host is must have15:52
zearnn's keyboard is of a good quality, i agree, but longer typing on it is not the one of best experiences :)15:52
zeartry to play nethack or frotz games on it for a while ;)15:52
kuribaszear: Isn't it better than on palm or a tablet pc?15:53
zearkuribas, well, i have jornada 720 and it's keyboard is a million times better ;)15:53
Jay7kuribas: btw, Zipit may be interesting for you15:54
zearnn is fine for typing a phrase or two, but longer typing on it results in fingertips pain ;)15:54
Jay7or Sharp Zaurus SL-C1000/C3000/C3100/C320015:55
wolfspraulyes I agree. I could compare it to a blackberry keyboard, I think it's almost as good as that.15:55
Jay7they have very good case and keyboard but hard to find this time imho15:55
wolfspraulwhen you guys talk about palm keyboard, what do you mean? the treo keyboard? or the foldable keyboards (stowaway and such)?15:56
wolfspraulthe NanoNote keyboard is as good, or better, than a Treo keyboard, but by far not as convenient as a stowaway, for anything more then 1-2 phrases/sentences, as zear said15:57
kuribasI used my palm with the stylus only :)  I guess it cannot be worse than that.15:57
wolfspraulhe. hard to compare stylus to real keyboard. that's mostly a matter of preference then.15:57
zearkuribas, actually, i find it easier to type with on-screen-keyboard on my freerunner than with nn's keyboard15:58
zeareasier and faster15:58
zearnn is just not made for fast typing15:58
zearyou have to use your thumbs to type, etc15:58
wolfspraulagreed. like I said, compare to blackberry keyboard...15:59
wolfspraulI think you can get quite fast on a Ben, tactile feedback is good. but it's thumb hopping stuff...16:00
wolfspraulwe should include a little '2 fast fingers' game :-)16:00
wolfspraullike this, but for NanoNote...16:00
wolfspraulhttp://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/16:00
kuribasThe zipit seems limited.16:02
ormrisHello everyone!16:16
ormrisOpkg can't seem to install packages.16:17
ormrisI got it on the inet and opkg update works.16:17
ormrisBut it can't find any of the packages.16:17
ormrisWhen I try to install them.16:18
ormrisEven the snapshots file appears to have the right information.16:18
Action: kristianpaul back16:47
valhallaI have the nanowar edition, with jlime; it's missing jlime-pkg and opkg doesn't work, can I download it from here http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/jlime/misc/ and use it to get the package that contains it?16:58
kristianpaulvalhalla: yup17:27
kristianpaulcan you tell us more about (opkg doesn't work)17:27
valhallawhich package is it? I tried a quick search but couldn't find it17:27
kuribaszear: Why do you think the zipit is easier to type on?  It looks the same size to me...17:28
valhallaopkg gets killed by the OOM manager17:28
valhalla(when trying to install packages)17:28
kristianpauloh sure17:28
zearkuribas, never had one, so can only guess. But it looks like it has one of that rubber pad thingies phones keyboards have17:28
zearso it should be far worse to type on17:29
kristianpaulvalhalla: get this http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/jlime/misc/jlime-pkg17:29
kristianpaulvalhalla: you should not install package on jlime using opkg un less you make sure you have swap, if not jlime-plg come to rescue17:30
kuribaszear: Err, right.  It was Jay7 who told me that :)17:30
kristianpaulget that file on the device17:30
kristianpaul./jlime-pkg install foo17:30
kristianpaulwill work17:30
valhallakristianpaul: that's what I had found by googling :D I was wondering if there was a package that included that script17:30
kristianpaulbut before, make sure you run opkg update17:30
kristianpaulvalhalla: dunno17:30
Jay7kuribas: imho both devices are very alike17:30
Jay7kuribas: just choose one :)17:30
kristianpaulvalhalla: but the script by itself is okay fot use, why you need a pacakge?17:31
valhallakristianpaul: OCD, I guess :D17:31
kuribasJay7: right.17:32
kuribasIf I buy one, I'll port this game: http://vexed.sourceforge.net/ :-)17:33
kristianpaul(dreams with a frozzen bubble port)17:35
kuribasThat's a nice game too.  Too addicting though :)17:36
valhalla(btw, I've just written some 100 words on the NN keyboard as a test, and it seems to be working quite fine17:43
kuribasvalhalla: I see, thanks.17:47
kristianpaulvalhalla: good :-)17:56
kristianpaulI enojoy write stuff on the nanonote when not have my laptop near17:56
kristianpauls/enojoy/enjoy17:57
wpwrak_wolfgang: didn't have time to play with kicad yet, sorry. cleanup from yesterday's party is done. now off to the next one. busy time of the year :)18:38
kristianpaulhttp://pastie.org/140580421:11
kristianpaulargg21:21
kristianpauli need improve the simulation.. :/21:35
kristianpaulargg cver lies me !21:52
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-example-files: add track info to music file http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/83b872823:20
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