#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2010-12-19

qi-bot[commit] Adam Wang: Updated BOOKSHELF http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/f63c97100:17
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: make Emacs' dired work http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/73f3a0705:11
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: Disable Emacs build/startup hacks, rename package emacs-bin to emacs. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/5b037ba05:11
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: Fix Emacs bug resetting all environment variables on startup. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f20634805:11
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: renamed loadup patch (now using quilt); minor startup time improvement. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/617083b05:11
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: OpenWrt does not allow us to install to target '/var' directory.  skip it. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/0bbedb605:11
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: comment http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/d9d8ede05:11
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: delate renamed patch http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/883697105:11
wolfspraulwpwrak: I'm wondering what our policies should be with regards to one versus multiple KiCad projects/boards inside one repository05:35
wolfspraulin ben-wpan, you have 305:35
wolfspraulbut now that we like the idea of schematics references in BOOKSHELF that's not going to work with multiple boards. unless we say that even across boards, references have to be unique. which would be very unusual and hard to maintain.05:36
wolfspraulso maybe we move the BOOKSHELF into the folder where the .pro file lives?05:36
wolfspraulsimilar question about boom - in ben-wpan there is a ./bom directory, should it contain the bom for all projects?05:37
wolfspraulcurrently I'm wondering where to put the new camera.pro/camera.sch/camera.brd files in xue (the new daughterboard)05:37
wolfspraulinto a folder ./camera ?05:38
wolfspraulor into a new Indefero project?05:38
wolfsprauland while we're at it. how about kicad-libs/modules? maybe we should move some more modules over there? I could start in Xue...05:39
wolfspraulmy proposal would be that multiple .pro kicad projects per repository are fine, but that BOOKSHELF and bom/ should be in the same folder as the .pro file05:50
wolfspraulwhich actually makes me wonder what if someone wants to source parts for a run, but the run includes multiple boards?05:50
wolfspraulwell, enough questions for now, see what you think first...05:51
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: Adapt config.full_system to new emacs package name.  Add emacs japanese http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/edd7c3906:00
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: fix dependency after emacs-bin package was  renamed http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/04e813c06:00
kyakbackdoors and remote kill switches everywhere06:09
kyakwe need one in Ben ;)06:10
wolfspraulit's amazing that Intel marketing even seems to be proud that this works even "without an Internet connection" and "without the computer being turned on"06:11
wolfspraulthings do seem to have gotten out of control somewhat...06:11
kyakor, they have gotten exactly into control!06:12
wolfspraulI guess Intel thinks 'they' (?) control anyway whether something is running or not, so marketing can just claim it works even when the computer is 'off'06:12
wolfspraulwithout current, I'm sure the great kill switch won't work06:12
wolfspraulit assumes that the whole system is controlled by 'them' anyway06:12
wolfspraulso even if 'we' think it's off, it's not off06:12
bartbesis it correct the reflash_ben.sh script downloads with output?06:12
wolfsprauldownloads with output? don't understand. it has a progress bar now.06:13
kyakhm, i use reflash_ben.sh on local files, i even forgot it can download :)06:14
kyaki guess the output from wget is shown?06:14
wolfsprauldon't know06:14
wpwrakwolfspraul: (BOOKSHELF) dsv is hierarchical, so you can have one in the sub-project and one at the top. pick what you like ;-)06:15
wpwrakwolfspraul: (sub-projects) i think we already have an inflation of projects ;-) that's why i started to have even things like "cntr" under ben-wpan (well, it probably should go elsewhere some day, wernermisc or *-{tools,utils})06:16
bartbestry fetching .ubi.bz2 rootfs...06:16
bartbesand then.. nothing06:16
wpwrakwolfspraul: one advantage of having things in the same project is that versions are synchronized06:16
wpwrakwolfspraul: (complex sourcing) you can probably just load multiple kicad boms, but i haven't tried it. worst case, you may have to massage the component references with sed06:18
wolfspraulok so if we have a subproject, we have a separate BOOKSHELF and bom/ folder in the subproject's folder?06:20
bartbesoh hey, it's flashing06:20
wolfspraulfor xue, that would be:06:20
bartbesit's so weird not seeing the screen on06:20
wolfspraullike that?06:20
wolfspraulbartbes: how is nlove doing? any news/progress?06:24
bartbesnot too much progress, been busy irl06:24
bartbesbut it will be merged into love soonish06:25
wolfspraulgreat, no rush06:25
wolfspraulI do have high hopes in it though... it could be really nice06:25
bartbeswell, of course it can load games already, there just aren't many games for it06:27
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: moved 3 folders in kicad/ one level up http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/54b07e506:35
wolfspraulI have infinite faith in schhist now, let's see...06:35
wpwrak(splitting boom) dunno. the structure isn't mature enough for me to consider this yet. but you can try and see what works :)06:51
wolfspraulno problem, so we leave the main xue bom and camera bom in the same folder?06:52
bartbesehm, how do I quit mc?07:08
bartbesbecause I remember f10 or f1207:08
bartbessince the ben only goes to f8..07:08
zrafabarbers, try to get the menu.. with F2 or something07:17
zrafathe menu has a quit i would say07:17
zrafa(no remember where :D )07:17
bartbesmenu file is missing07:18
bartbesand you misspelled my name07:18
zrafasorry.. I just started my day07:18
zrafabartbes: then another tip07:21
zrafaESC+0  .. works?07:21
bartbesof course07:21
bartbesI should've known..07:21
zrafathen please, tell sorry, and buy me beer and food07:21
bartbesI just reflashed07:30
bartbesand now my comp doesn't seem to recognize the usb network interface anymore07:30
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: moved camera and camera_psu schematics pages to new daughterboard project http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/db5dd9008:11
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: added footprint_review target http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/a0e047308:41
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: better target name http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/6fc706608:41
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: minor .gitignore improvement, removed risky wildcard from clean target http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/fe25eaf08:46
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: removed camera and camera_psu schematics pages http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/a7a2fab09:08
wpwrakpheew. xmas shopping complete :)09:47
wpwrakzrafa: those sw feature dialogs are nice. someone asks "do we have X ?" someone else answers "it's been added this week to openwrt / i've just added it". then "it is this and that fatal flaw". finally, rafa chimes in "this is how we fixed it in jlime half a year ago". nice to be always a few steps ahead ;-)10:04
kristianpaulHe enjoy replying that all time :)10:05
bartbesalright... this is bad12:02
bartbesso ever since I flashed my ben this morning, I can't get the usb network interface to register on my comp12:02
kristianpaulwat said dmesg?12:06
bartbesnvm, it was a config error on my part12:07
bartbesthe interface was down, apparently12:07
bartbes(that's a first though)12:08
bartbesoh wow12:20
bartbesthis is epic: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/programs/mini-spreadsheet.fs12:20
bartbesso who was the gforth guy?12:34
kristianpaulHorsefeathers!  We're probably out of memory!12:36
kristianpaulWhat? just 6Mb free :/12:39
kyakeverything is bad13:32
kristianpaulwpwrak: so, you still crosscompiling for jlime?15:09
Action: kristianpaul need swich to crosscompile definitelly15:09
kristianpaulviric: i was compiling stuff for jlime  in the OS it self15:11
viricin the nanonote?15:13
kristianpaulsort of yes (SIE board)15:14
viricah ok15:15
viricno faster than the nanonote then15:15
viricwith more ram?15:15
kristianpaulyes is fast15:19
kristianpaulah sorry15:20
kristianpauli missread15:20
kristianpaulpersonally i like more the nanonote15:20
kristianpaulof course i use SIE just becase the FPGA, no more15:20
wpwrakkristianpaul: (crosscompiling for jlime) hmm, what do you mean ?15:30
wpwrakoh, i see15:30
wpwraknaw, don't have the patience to compile on the ben ;-))15:30
kristianpaulbut you managed to use a toolchain compatible with jlime isnt?15:31
kristianpauli meant, a toolchain that can be run on your computer, (is not that cross-compiling ?)15:32
wpwrakyes, i used the jlime toolchain. and this is called cross-compiling indeed :)15:44
wpwrakm surprised that you would compile directly on the ben/sie :)15:44
bartbesso.. who was david aka gforth guy again?15:44
kristianpaul(surprised that you would compile directly on the ben/sie) i just wanted give a try, is my first emdebbed device that have enought ram to run a compiler :)15:46
Action: wpwrak is building ignitors for the 24th15:59
wpwrakthat wasn't me :)16:15
bartbesbye ChanServ!16:15
bartbesbtw, does this mean we split?16:15
lekernelah, freenode...16:16
lekernelnever seen an IRC network with so many netsplits16:16
lekernelis it run by GCC developers or...?16:16
Action: kristianpaul here we go :p16:18
kristianpaulwas compiled used gcc? ;-)16:19
Action: kristianpaul hides16:19
wpwrakruns on the Zylin CPU :)16:22
kristianpaulwpwrak: :D16:24
wpwrakbeta test complete. takes about 25 seconds to ignite a bit of paper. (~5 cm steel wire, wound into a coil, burning about 10 W)16:54
lekernelwpwrak: what are you doing?16:55
kristianpaulrocket science?16:55
Action: wpwrak wonders if match cord are more or less inflammable than paper tissues16:56
lekernelfor ignitors I recommend a 4.7 ohm 1/4W resistor and a car battery... costs nothing :)16:56
wpwrakkristianpaul: yup :)16:56
wpwraklekernel: in argentina, we have fireworks on the 24th :)16:56
kristianpaulwpwrak: (we) all people can launch rockers?16:57
wpwraklekernel: i'm too lazy to carry around the car battery ;-) but i have half a dozen lab supplies :)16:57
lekernelcould work too16:57
kristianpaulhow long take to ignite the resistor from your experience lekernel ?16:58
wpwrakthe steel wire looks quite good. i feed it 6.4 amps, which is what my largest supply can deliver alone. and it's reusable :)16:58
wpwrakresistors are nice :)17:02
wpwrak3 x 12 Ohm burn way better than steel ;-)17:03
wpwraklekernel: thanks for the idea ! this will be great fun :)17:09
Action: lekernel played a lot with sodium chlorate herbicide when young18:16
wpwrakgrmbl. going to a different screen while kicad is doing some processing causes X strangulation :-(18:25
Action: lekernel grins18:28
wpwraki thought you'd like that :)18:28
lekernellike? hum, not really18:31
wpwrakthere are a few things a windowing system shouldn't to. letting one application flood it with requests such that everything else stops is one of them.18:33
wpwrakletting anything but the window manager set the focus is probably another. recently, konqueror (well, something in there - may be flash) is way too happy to steal the focus in all sorts of nonsense situations.18:34
wpwrak(atusb instability) aha. a first clue. when just i connect 5V power to vbus, the weird resets happen too.18:35
lekernelkonqueror (and kde in general) is becoming horrible18:37
lekernelbugs don't get fixed, and new ones appear all the time18:37
wpwrakhmm. that's bad. konqueror is still my favourite browser.18:44
lekernelimo kde doesn't really improve anymore since the last 2.x releases...18:46
lekernelI could count on a single hand the useful features of kde 4.5 that were not in the last 2.x18:47
lekernelbut the bugs... argh18:48
lekernelmaybe I should take those 2.x releases, remove X-Windows and upgrade the HTML rendering system. that could make a nice desktop environment18:49
kristianpaulis not that what gnome is doing latelly (html rendering) ¡18:59
wpwraklekernel: i actually like the old feature sets :) konqueror pretty much did everything in needed maybe even as much as ten year ago. so all that really had to change was support for any new stuff that was added to HTML.19:16
wpwraks/in needed/i needed/19:17
lekernelnow there is konqueror+dolphin, two apps for the same thing...19:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: firmware update for the 2010-12-16 board series http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/ad2c72f19:19
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: avoid track leaving pad 16 of U2 laterally, for better solderability http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9fa026e19:19
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: usb.sch: explain how the the ID pin works http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/3cb382719:19
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: several small solderability improvements http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/429e05419:19
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: more small layout improvements http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/63e170419:19
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/cam2/mkmk: compensate deflection when cutting the board outline http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8f2dbf719:19
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/common/config.h: corrected BOARD_xxx names in #if defined() http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/d5f782019:19
wpwrakoh, more stuff queued up than i thought :)19:20
wpwraklekernel: hmm, but dolphin isn't a web brower, is it ? i use konqueror only for the web. the concept of a file browser is quite incomprehensible to me. i mean, there is the shell. what else could i possibly want ?19:21
lekernelftp/ssh drag n drop? picture galleries?19:22
wpwrakscp local<Tab> remote:19:23
wpwrakqiv -t *  (watch the sequence - no thumbnails)19:24
lekernelone thing the newer KDE's got right, though, is the removal of the GNU/Autocrap propaganda tool19:24
lekernelcmake is much better19:25
wpwrakfor some things, i also write scripts. like this one:19:26
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: bin/qippl: log into www-data@downloads.qi-hardware.com or scp files http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/495215719:26
wpwrakwhy not just plain make ?19:26
kristianpaulcmake is not like autotools at the end?19:27
kristianpaulwpwrak: had you tried feh ?19:29
wpwrakfirst time i hear of it :) sounds nice19:31
wpwraki wish xv development would still happen. it's such a great program. also has the nicest interpolation i've seen so far.19:32
zrafawpwrak: sw dialogs? :) he.. i do not sure which dialogs are those :)19:36
zrafazrafa: but I am sure that we have a lot of solved tips for mobile devices which people talk like "new features to discover/develop"19:37
wpwraksome tools to use on the desktop. for those moments when hardware needs a rest ;-)19:37
zrafawpwrak: and another intersting thing is that: I have used all the already features jlime has for jornada 6660/680/690 (which has 16Mb of ram, or 32).. so all my answers are from things we already used since 2006-2007.19:43
wpwrak(ah, now i got what you meant with "sw dialogs". i thought you were referring to our discussion of konqueror, feh, etc.)19:44
kristianpaulzrafa: what you used before jornada?19:44
wpwrakzrafa: the gap between jlime and openwrt is indeed quite amazing19:45
zrafakristianpaul: before jornada? as mobile device?: nothing.. jornada 660lx was my first mobile device. And I was the first guy on the earth to install linux on that :)19:46
zrafawell, at least the only guy on the earth who tried :D19:46
zrafakristianpaul: the proper name is HP Palmtop 660lx, no jornada.19:47
wpwrakzrafa: the first who tried or the first who succeeded ?19:50
kristianpaulzrafa: good :)19:51
kristianpaulzrafa: and the others jlime guys?19:52
zrafawpwrak: no sure. The first who succeeded to install linux using compact flash as disk. Previously there were some success using linux just on ram.. from linux kernel + initrd. When I bought my 660lx I was thinking that jlime would work, but the jlime linux kernel and mainline did not. So I was spending few months until I did a poll patch for IDE driver.19:52
zrafaThat was my first solution to install linux on compact flash. Then I ported my patch to PATA driver, to use newer linux kernel. I never was able to solve the problem with "lost interrupt" from those drivers, but we offer at jlime both kernel (using IDE or PATA) with the poll patch for palmtops 620lx or 660lx19:54
zrafathen more 620lx users appeared happy19:54
wpwrakah, cool. did someone else solve the "lost interrupt" ?19:55
zrafawpwrak: nobody19:58
zrafakristianpaul: kristoffer used a jornada 680 as first device. He got that as a gift from his company.. and kristoffer ported linux to that device. 2.4 kernel worked, but 2.6 was deprecated for jornada. So kristoffer ported 2.6 kernel to jornada. He20:06
zrafadeserves the fame :)20:06
zrafakristianpaul: and he founded jlime20:07
kristianpaulzrafa: nice history :)20:10
qi-bot[commit] Adam Wang: new file .gitignore http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/d39814320:34
qi-bot[commit] Adam Wang: delete /bom/*.ord & /bom/*.par http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/46bf92f20:43
kristianpaulthis signal is connected to multiple drivers.22:26
kristianpaulargg i need improve my coding thinking for verilog ..22:26
kristianpaulwell just missed one signal from 5 :)22:31
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