| kyak | viric: (benchmark) don't know.. maybe need to ask in mailing lists, someone should remember | 02:47 |
|---|---|---|
| viric | kyak: do you know if openwrt brings the SIMD mplayer? | 03:12 |
| kyak | don't see it in packages | 03:22 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: config.debug: the minimal .config with debugging capabilities http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/1c5d309 | 03:32 |
| viric | larsc: does oprofile work fine on the nanonote? | 03:37 |
| viric | kyak: ok. I wonder if someone is building it nowadays. | 03:37 |
| viric | I even don't know what parts there were 'accelerated' | 03:38 |
| kyak | are you talking about SIMD player? | 03:40 |
| kyak | i don't know what SIMD is :) | 03:40 |
| wolfspraul | kyak: config.debug could also include logging daemons set to 'debug' logging | 03:40 |
| kyak | mplayer is ported, however | 03:40 |
| kyak | wolfspraul: good idea! however, now we have those daemons disabled in /etc/init.d/boot :) | 03:41 |
| kyak | wolfspraul: it's just some things depend on things other than .config.. maybe their own config files | 03:42 |
| kyak | so maybe let the user who is into debugging make this decisions by his own? | 03:42 |
| viric | kyak: Single Instruction Multiple Data. MXU instructions, on xburst, I think. | 03:55 |
| kyak | viric: have no idea.. openwrt mplayer is not patched, so it might not take advantage of xburst specifics | 03:58 |
| kyak | i've seen patched maplyer from ingenic | 03:58 |
| viric | kyak: | 03:58 |
| kyak | but it's based on some older version | 03:58 |
| viric | Yes, I talk about that | 03:58 |
| viric | So there is noone in the nanonote using a 'fast' mplayer? Also jlime uses only the upstream? | 03:59 |
| kyak | i'm not suffering of some lack of performance, to tell the truth :) | 03:59 |
| kyak | don't know about jlime | 04:00 |
| kyak | and mplayer in openwrt is just a standart mplayer | 04:00 |
| viric | can you play theora videos? | 04:00 |
| kyak | as it goes from mplayer developers | 04:00 |
| kyak | not tried playing theora videos | 04:01 |
| kyak | thereis a weird bug though | 04:01 |
| kyak | both in openwrt and jlime | 04:01 |
| kyak | when you fast forward several times in a row, thereis a sqeeqy sound from speaker | 04:02 |
| kyak | and it won't stop | 04:02 |
| kyak | until you reboot | 04:02 |
| kyak | perhaps you will find it yourself | 04:02 |
| viric | oh | 04:03 |
| viric | In fact, the mplayer I built had a very bad performance. | 04:03 |
| kyak | it depends on used codecs a lot | 04:04 |
| kyak | which do you use? | 04:04 |
| kyak | and the video resolution, of course | 04:04 |
| kyak | saying simplier, what;s your command line? | 04:05 |
| kyak | to encode and to play videos | 04:05 |
| viric | Maybe I chose it to use floating point, and I did not notice. | 04:05 |
| kyak | http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/mplayer/README | 04:05 |
| kyak | this approch works pretty well here | 04:06 |
| viric | ah, I took an h264 video at 640x480 :) | 04:06 |
| viric | kyak: I'll check. thank you" | 04:06 |
| kyak | oh, good for you then | 04:06 |
| viric | hehe | 04:06 |
| kyak | even my laptop is not capable playing such videos :) | 04:06 |
| viric | what codecs you advise? | 04:06 |
| kyak | does your kernel has floating point emulation? | 04:07 |
| viric | can it do xvid? | 04:07 |
| viric | Even if it has, I don't want to use it | 04:07 |
| viric | I don't remember if I disabled it finally | 04:07 |
| kyak | i think xvid should be fine | 04:07 |
| kyak | i convert it to mpeg to watch on ben | 04:08 |
| viric | mpeg2? | 04:08 |
| kyak | vcodec=mpeg1video | 04:08 |
| kyak | just have a look at commnd line i shown you | 04:08 |
| kyak | mplayer has some floating point computations | 04:09 |
| kyak | i've seen it fixed in ingenic's patch | 04:09 |
| viric | kernel emulation would be very bad... | 04:09 |
| viric | My toolchain builds always for soft-float, so it should never end up using the kernel emulation | 04:09 |
| kyak | however, i don't think this causes some real overhead | 04:09 |
| kyak | btw, you can try playing your video with -nosound | 04:10 |
| kyak | and then with -vo null | 04:11 |
| viric | and for sound, what do you use? | 04:11 |
| kyak | then you can see if it is video or audio that's causing this performance droppage | 04:11 |
| viric | for the audio track | 04:11 |
| kyak | viric: haven't you had a look at the link i gave you? ;) | 04:11 |
| viric | link? | 04:12 |
| viric | AH | 04:12 |
| kyak | 12:03:54 < kyak> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/mplayer/README | 04:12 |
| viric | will read. | 04:12 |
| viric | :) | 04:12 |
| kyak | however, i then switched to that: | 04:13 |
| viric | mp2 audio, mpeg1 video? now I understand why you don't experience performance problems with the upstream mplayer :) | 04:14 |
| viric | btw, that mplayer command line is to me like a 'blob' is to free software ;) | 04:14 |
| kyak | can't find the command line, switched to liblame | 04:15 |
| kyak | viric: i don't really care if it's "free" or "not free" when it comes to my own convenience | 04:16 |
| viric | hehe | 04:16 |
| kyak | btw, that's why mplayer depends on BUILD_PATENTED | 04:16 |
| kyak | it's in my todo list to split it to free and patented :) | 04:17 |
| viric | have you tried the vp8? | 04:17 |
| viric | They have specific assembly for arm, at least | 04:17 |
| kyak | no, what's that? | 04:17 |
| viric | I don't know if for mips | 04:17 |
| viric | the video codec patent free for webm | 04:17 |
| viric | bsd licensed | 04:17 |
| kyak | is it supported by maplyer? | 04:18 |
| kyak | viric: sorry, got to go now.. thanks for you hint. might want to have a look later... | 04:19 |
| viric | kyak: vlc plays it fine :) and ffmpeg can use it fine | 04:20 |
| viric | kyak: I don't remember playing it in mplayer though | 04:20 |
| viric | maybe vlc would work better than mplayer | 04:26 |
| bartbes | hmm | 08:00 |
| bartbes | is the entirety of gtk/glib running on the ben? | 08:00 |
| kristianpaul | hmm | 08:00 |
| kristianpaul | in wich os? | 08:01 |
| bartbes | owrt | 08:01 |
| kristianpaul | i think you can compile owrt with gtk support too | 08:01 |
| kristianpaul | it was a blog entry from mirko i think | 08:01 |
| kristianpaul | long time ago | 08:01 |
| bartbes | I know there's gtk support | 08:02 |
| bartbes | one of the default apps uses gtk | 08:02 |
| bartbes | stardict iirc | 08:02 |
| bartbes | yeah, looks gtk-y | 08:02 |
| bartbes | I guess I could just try | 08:06 |
| bartbes | but it'd be crappy if it fails | 08:06 |
| bartbes | (as I'm going to write a program) | 08:06 |
| kristianpaul | in gtk? | 08:11 |
| bartbes | yes | 08:23 |
| kristianpaul | wht not SDL? :) | 08:24 |
| bartbes | because.. I'm going for a GUI, not anything needing real graphics | 08:27 |
| kristianpaul | ah ok | 08:28 |
| kyak | wow.. a minimal system with debug and without stripping is > 700 Mb | 12:26 |
| kyak | to the hell with that debug idea | 12:27 |
| kyak | oh, maybe this is when qemu is coming handy | 12:27 |
| wolfspraul | kyak: 700 mb image? | 12:52 |
| wolfspraul | maybe still makes sense via the ImageBuilder, so people don't have to rebuild it all, just add a package they want to debug... | 12:52 |
| kyak | my bad, this image has stardict.. pretty many dependencies | 13:12 |
| viric | kyak: 700mb image? it's not that bad | 14:06 |
| kyak | trying to do some debuggin inside the qemu.. | 14:08 |
| kyak | gdb says utils.c:904: internal-error: virtual memory exhausted: can't allocate 13263733 bytes. | 14:09 |
| wpwrak_ | that's things like libsomething-dbg ? | 14:09 |
| viric | kyak: give memory to qemu | 14:09 |
| kyak | of course there is enough memory | 14:09 |
| viric | ah :) | 14:09 |
| kyak | so it's strange.. | 14:09 |
| viric | doesn't anyone here have a more powerful mips than the nanonote? | 14:10 |
| viric | I think I could run the nanonote programs in a chroot in a Fuloong MiniPC | 14:10 |
| kyak | you? :) | 14:10 |
| viric | :) | 14:10 |
| viric | speed is not the problem :) | 14:10 |
| kyak | i'll try to debug something else | 14:11 |
| kyak | maybe stardict is too damn tricky | 14:11 |
| viric | kyak: try gdbserver, and debug on the PC | 14:11 |
| kyak | a very good idea | 14:11 |
| kyak | should i run gdbserver on my PC? | 14:11 |
| viric | no | 14:11 |
| viric | gdb in your PC, gdbserver in the nanonote | 14:12 |
| viric | or qemu | 14:12 |
| kyak | ah, ok.. will have to read about that | 14:12 |
| viric | you need a gdb that can understand mips though | 14:12 |
| viric | a 'cross-gdb' | 14:12 |
| kyak | yes, such is avaialble | 14:12 |
| kyak | in a toolchain | 14:12 |
| viric | you can use the network | 14:12 |
| kyak | Starting program: /bin/ls | 14:13 |
| kyak | vfork: Cannot allocate memory. | 14:13 |
| viric | you start a gdbserver in one side... and in the cross-gdb in the pc you run "target remote xx.xx.xx.xx:1234" whatever ip:port there. | 14:13 |
| kyak | it's really-really strange | 14:13 |
| viric | maybe that gdb is not very well built | 14:13 |
| kyak | gdb is not able to debug even simpliest apps | 14:13 |
| viric | I'll try with mine... | 14:13 |
| kyak | yes, maybe | 14:13 |
| kyak | will try with gdbserver | 14:14 |
| rafa | viric: I have ran gdb in nanonote without problems | 14:17 |
| viric | rafa: good to know! :) | 14:55 |
| lunavorax | Hi everyone ! | 15:50 |
| lunavorax | I wanted to ask a software question about the Ben Nanonote | 15:50 |
| bartbes | lunavorax: ask away | 15:51 |
| bartbes | we won't know if anyone can answer it before it has been posed | 15:51 |
| lunavorax | What display server (or windows manager, I have troubles figuring out the good word) is used on the Ben Nanonote instead of X.org (or is it X11 ? can't figure out) | 15:51 |
| bartbes | none | 15:51 |
| bartbes | the openwrt kernel uses direct framebuffer access | 15:51 |
| lunavorax | So how does the display work ? | 15:51 |
| lunavorax | Ok | 15:51 |
| bartbes | jlime has an X server | 15:52 |
| lunavorax | openwrt kernel = regular gnu/linux kernel right ? | 15:52 |
| bartbes | the one that comes preinstalled and the official qi-hardware one, yes | 15:52 |
| bartbes | why do you ask, if I may? | 15:52 |
| lunavorax | Well I was just wondering how it was working | 15:53 |
| lunavorax | I started wondering with something unrealated in fact | 15:53 |
| lunavorax | The Wayland project | 15:53 |
| bartbes | well, good thing a lot of toolkits have fb support | 15:53 |
| lunavorax | Yeah | 15:53 |
| bartbes | oh heh, I doubt we'll see the needed hardware acceleration | 15:54 |
| lunavorax | Also I saw a guy made one here "because X11 sucks" on github | 15:54 |
| lunavorax | No no I wasn't talking about that | 15:54 |
| lunavorax | It's just that it started my question about how all this stuff was working | 15:54 |
| lunavorax | Also I already knew that X11 was slow and I was "at last a descent replacment" | 15:55 |
| bartbes | well display server architecture is an interesting topic | 15:56 |
| bartbes | and I love it how they said they weren't going to care about network transparency so much, and then specifically the shitstorm of scared users saying "but I need networked displays!" | 15:56 |
| bartbes | not realizing that the wayland guys still want that possibility | 15:57 |
| lunavorax | (also I was wondering when I saw that some libraries like Allegro could make softwares that doesn't need X to run | 15:57 |
| bartbes | ah well | 15:57 |
| bartbes | well, afaik there are only a few real options for rendering | 15:58 |
| lunavorax | Yeah I actually didn't understood what network transparency (in fact all the network stuff on a local display server concept) | 15:58 |
| bartbes | framebuffers are quite direct | 15:58 |
| bartbes | there's X | 15:58 |
| bartbes | there's OpenGL | 15:58 |
| bartbes | and then now there's wayland, but afaik it runs on top of gl | 15:58 |
| lunavorax | Yeah | 15:59 |
| lunavorax | You think it's a default ? | 15:59 |
| bartbes | well, you see, X' network transparency is kind of weird | 15:59 |
| bartbes | you see | 15:59 |
| bartbes | instead of using direct calls | 15:59 |
| bartbes | or even unix sockets | 15:59 |
| bartbes | or named pipes | 15:59 |
| bartbes | you use full-blown network sockets | 15:59 |
| bartbes | *always* | 16:00 |
| bartbes | which is inefficient | 16:00 |
| lunavorax | Oh wait OpenGL | 16:00 |
| lunavorax | Does that means that when I use Compiz, it doesn't use X anymore ? | 16:00 |
| wpwrak_ | bartbes: (always) unless you use SHM | 16:00 |
| bartbes | shm? | 16:01 |
| bartbes | lunavorax: it does use X | 16:01 |
| bartbes | ;) | 16:01 |
| lunavorax | Haha ok | 16:01 |
| bartbes | but iirc the X server needs GL extensions | 16:01 |
| viric | bartbes: X uses unix sockets locally | 16:02 |
| bartbes | oh right | 16:02 |
| bartbes | but still, sockets | 16:02 |
| wpwrak_ | bartbes: shared memory. x has a number of ways for using more efficient paths when available. | 16:02 |
| bartbes | I mean, I didn't spend too much time looking into this stuff | 16:02 |
| viric | bartbes: you have a strong opinion though ;) | 16:02 |
| bartbes | I just read tiny bits of info spread over time, then combined that | 16:02 |
| wpwrak_ | viric: the less you know, the easier it is to hold a strong belief ;-) | 16:03 |
| bartbes | wpwrak_: that is not true | 16:03 |
| bartbes | I mean, I said I read tiny bits | 16:03 |
| bartbes | but I read a lot of them | 16:03 |
| bartbes | :P | 16:04 |
| bartbes | I mean, in all this time I have absorbed quite a bit of information | 16:04 |
| bartbes | and it helps me not be a sheep | 16:04 |
| viric | :) | 16:04 |
| bartbes | it's one of the reasons I'm not shouting "I need network transparency, X rules, wayland sucks, and canonical sucks" | 16:04 |
| viric | It feels comfortable that, most software we have today is built on X instead of something else that may not be easily used through a network | 16:05 |
| viric | Maybe it could be better, and new software is going to show that... but luckily we don't have something worse :) | 16:06 |
| bartbes | hmm | 16:06 |
| bartbes | the thing is | 16:06 |
| bartbes | it makes no diff in the programs themselves | 16:06 |
| bartbes | it's probably a small diff in the toolkit (for the networking, of course X support is quite a bit more complicated) | 16:06 |
| wpwrak_ | bartbes: yeah, my comment was a little nasty, i admit :) | 16:06 |
| bartbes | and that is the goal of the transparency | 16:06 |
| bartbes | a program doesn't need to have a clue | 16:07 |
| viric | well, a program for X does not have to have a lot of clue. | 16:07 |
| viric | It could be better, sure. | 16:07 |
| bartbes | tbh there are lots of programs that don't have a clue | 16:08 |
| bartbes | same goes for programmers | 16:08 |
| bartbes | but that is something entirely unrelated :P | 16:08 |
| viric | :) | 16:08 |
| viric | I never wrote a program dealing with the X libs directly... | 16:08 |
| viric | The kind of abstraction you may want is that given by Qt or similar. Isn't it? | 16:08 |
| wpwrak_ | yup. or Gtk, SDL, ... | 16:11 |
| wpwrak_ | they may draw some concepts from X, e.g., color allocation, but they wrap them into their own style and mechanisms | 16:11 |
| bartbes | SDL is very nice | 16:12 |
| bartbes | it can do fb, X, svgalib and more | 16:13 |
| bartbes | transparent to the program | 16:13 |
| bartbes | anyway, I did some xlib | 16:14 |
| bartbes | not to put something on the screen, but I needed the Xlib features | 16:14 |
| viric | isn't xcb any better? | 16:14 |
| bartbes | no idea | 16:14 |
| bartbes | I just know it had the direct access I needed | 16:14 |
| rafa | I have been tempted to write a new GUI for freerunner using just C + fb and sdl, because after some tests it is the fatest thing I have seen :).. but I dream with a lot of things I will be doing.. And then, at the end of the year, I realize that I just did two or three things of that 200 items list I often dream ;-)) | 16:15 |
| viric | X is very bad at caching application buffers though | 16:15 |
| wpwrak_ | rafa: (3/200) a common problem ;) | 16:17 |
| bartbes | viric: caching? | 16:18 |
| bartbes | you mean what wayland is trying to solve (amongst other problems) by letting the application tell the server what to redraw when? | 16:19 |
| viric | bartbes: so any redraw needed in the server goes to the client. | 16:19 |
| rafa | wpwrak_: it gets worst because the 200 items number increases a lot every year.. and the items done does not so fast than total items todo :D | 16:19 |
| viric | bartbes: I'm not following wayland | 16:19 |
| wpwrak_ | rafa: ah, exponential growth. now that is bad :) | 16:19 |
| bartbes | wpwrak_: you should clear the list sometime ;) | 16:20 |
| wpwrak_ | viric: are redraws really that big a problem ? and X11 should still have server-side backing store. http://www.ess.co.at/FAQ/faq001.html | 16:21 |
| viric | server-side backing store? I never saw it | 16:22 |
| viric | ohh nice option | 16:22 |
| viric | wpwrak_: but that does not work as cache, right? I mean that the option will change what the user sees, but not the network usage. | 16:23 |
| wpwrak_ | as far as i understand it, it does work as a sever-side cache | 16:26 |
| wpwrak_ | http://www.x.org/archive/X11R6.8.1/doc/ati5.html section 5.15 | 16:28 |
| viric | why isn't "backingstore" a default? | 16:35 |
| viric | it may have a counterpart other than 'it takes more memory' | 16:35 |
| wpwrak_ | if you're local and the content isn't particularly hard to recreate, redraws may be good enough. in fact, i think redraws may be relatively infrequent anyway. | 16:39 |
| viric | they happen on window resizing, or a window getting in front of another | 16:40 |
| wpwrak_ | i think the tendency nowadays is a "redraw from model" pipe anyway | 16:40 |
| wpwrak_ | yes, and how often do you resize/restack windows, compared to other operations ? :) | 16:41 |
| wpwrak_ | restacking could be a problem if don't have enough screen space, though. | 16:41 |
| wpwrak_ | ah, and when you resize, you probably want to redraw anyway | 16:42 |
| viric | wpwrak_: I resize often, using a tiling window manager :) | 16:43 |
| wpwrak_ | particularly if you follow the "redraw from model" paradigm | 16:43 |
| wpwrak_ | urgh :) | 16:43 |
| viric | wpwrak_: also causes a redraw the switching of 'desktops' | 16:57 |
| viric | or however you call it. | 16:58 |
| viric | Full screens of organized windows. | 16:58 |
| wpwrak_ | yeah, switching desktops is something i do a lot, too | 17:00 |
| viric | do you have that option switched on, for caching? | 17:01 |
| wpwrak_ | ah, the other one is save-under. e.g., when you pop up a window on top of another, the occluded window gets saved | 17:01 |
| wpwrak_ | no, neither of them | 17:02 |
| wpwrak_ | i'm not sure they would accelerate what i'm doing much. most things are fast anyway ;-) | 17:03 |
| viric | :) | 17:13 |
| viric | you helped me a lot letting me know the options are there. | 17:13 |
| viric | When I'll experience X11 network speed troubles, I may remember them | 17:13 |
| viric | kyak: gdb works here, I think | 17:54 |
| kristianpaul | (the less you know, the easier it is to hold a strong belief) That works almost everywhere | 17:57 |
| kristianpaul | git can just tell me commit history for my current folder? | 18:55 |
| kristianpaul | sie code generator?.. | 18:56 |
| kristianpaul | will be nice if carlos camargo once at week join irc and tell us what he is doing | 18:56 |
| kristianpaul | or at least ping he here | 18:57 |
| kristianpaul | thats the top !! | 18:58 |
| kristianpaul | What on earth is doing a deb package there http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/nn-usb-fpga/source/tree/master/Examples/UNFURO/avrdude_5.10-1_i386.deb | 18:59 |
| kristianpaul | :S | 18:59 |
| kristianpaul | what a mess : | 18:59 |
| wpwrak_ | ;-) | 19:03 |
| kristianpaul | oh something is wrong with my local git, i'm tryin to commit to qi and is pushing to github? O_o | 19:09 |
| kristianpaul | git is self hosted config isnt? | 19:14 |
| kristianpaul | cause i reinstalled debian some weeks ago and dint backup nothing about git config (in general) | 19:15 |
| kristianpaul | fatal: Path 'tools/adc/sofware/jz47xx_gpio.c' is in submodule 'tools/adc/sofware' | 19:18 |
| kristianpaul | what that means "speaking git" ? | 19:18 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas: created notes folder http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-gps-sdr/1c2e0de | 19:22 |
| wpwrak_ | kristianpaul: there's a ~/.gitconfig, e.g., with your name and email | 19:29 |
| kristianpaul | dammit | 19:29 |
| wpwrak_ | not sure about the other things | 19:29 |
| wpwrak_ | (gitconfig) it's simple: [user]\n\tname = Your Name\n\temail = you@mail.foo\n | 19:30 |
| wpwrak_ | that's it :) | 19:30 |
| kristianpaul | yes | 19:30 |
| kristianpaul | no i said dammit cause i still getting "fatal: Path..." | 19:30 |
| kristianpaul | and i just cloned the repo again and copied files in side | 19:31 |
| wpwrak_ | ah ... that sounds like more fun :) google ? | 19:31 |
| kristianpaul | yes | 19:31 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas: missing simple(stupid) code to initialize and read adc buffer http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-gps-sdr/351e1d5 | 19:35 |
| kristianpaul | solved | 19:35 |
| wpwrak_ | what was it ? | 19:38 |
| kristianpaul | dont know i think related to cache | 19:41 |
| kristianpaul | i just copied and pasted some commands | 19:41 |
| wpwrak_ | ;-)) | 19:42 |
| kristianpaul | btw about my problem with 8Mhz signaling i solved it, well was for sie initially but can be re-used in the ben | 19:42 |
| kristianpaul | a SPI to Parallel converter | 19:42 |
| kristianpaul | is easy cause the signal is just 4 bit per sync | 19:43 |
| kristianpaul | son ben actually can handle 2Mh IO | 19:44 |
| kristianpaul | once it work on SIE i may try fit it on CPLD or just wire sie to ben | 19:44 |
| kristianpaul | i was thinking to implemented a 2k buffer on FPGA, as the original adc in SIE (wich is SPI too) works | 19:45 |
| kristianpaul | We need a map with people timezones :) | 19:51 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak_: you remenber sdram speed of ben? | 20:21 |
| kristianpaul | troughput** | 20:21 |
| wpwrak_ | hmm no, don't remember. it ought to be somewhere in the archive ;-) | 21:10 |
| wpwrak_ | (spi-par converter) congratulations ! | 21:11 |
| kristianpaul | nah not yet | 21:31 |
| --- Sat Dec 4 2010 | 00:00 | |
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