#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2010-11-30

kyakviric: great :) i wonder btw why it is all not included by default in malta_defconfig01:39
virickyak: aha, strange.03:37
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: remove test points from MCU-RF interconnect http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6b639b203:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: shrink C2 pads to test point size http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/ee6c94503:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: switch from mini-USB receptacle to full-size USB plug http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/0463d3003:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: use Johanson 2450FB15L0001 instead of discrete balun circuit http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/370cf8303:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: since we always drive TST, we don't need the pull-down http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/11202dd03:40
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: NanoMap: move sample maps from openwrt-xburst.git:/data to package. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/ebb0be203:42
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nightsky: cp example-nightsky.yml to root/ http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/ba83e7803:42
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: move sample NanoMap maps to it's package http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cfda53803:43
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: move .nightsky.yml to it's package http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/791004c03:43
viricxiangfu: does links work for you, with directfb?03:49
xiangfuviric: not tried. sorry.03:49
xiangfuviric: I will try compile links with directfb now. :)03:49
viricxiangfu: http://mail.directfb.org/pipermail/directfb-dev/2009-October/005320.html isn't it you?03:50
xiangfuviric: yes. it's me03:51
xiangfuviric: sorry, I forget that.03:51
viricok :)03:51
xiangfuviric: now. seems the 'links -g' works fine. let me take a screenshot.03:57
viricxiangfu: with RGB32? what kernel you run? it fails for me...04:17
xiangfuviric: with RGB24, I am using the 2010-09-17 release.04:22
xiangfuviric: but the have some problem when display. the links use 80% of the screen. not full screen.04:23
viricxiangfu: with RGB24, it paints for me 3/4 of the screen columns04:23
viricah! It's like me then04:23
viricThe colors (if you look at text, for example) are broken04:23
viricI think it paints RGB24 on a RGB32 buffer (therefore painting only 3/4 of the screen)04:23
xiangfuviric: yes.04:23
viric(so, 3-bytes per pixel, where the fb needs 4-bytes per pixel)04:24
viricxiangfu: So we see the same, and you consider that "works fine", while I consider that "it does not work". haha04:24
viric:)04:24
viricxiangfu: I also think that links needs a mouse for normal working... maybe it is not the best browser option for the nanonote.04:25
viricDo you use any browser capable of showing pictures?04:25
xiangfuviric: netsurf04:26
viricxiangfu: perfect! thank you!04:26
viricI'll try it04:26
xiangfuviric: we have a 'keymouse' in openwrt-package.git , but don't have time try it.04:26
viricis it for 'gpm', X, ..?04:27
viricI'll take a look04:27
viricthank you04:27
viricdo you build netsurf with gtk for directfb?04:28
xiangfuviric: only directfb.04:28
viricso, directfb works for netsurf but not for links2?04:29
viricor it looks the same? (rgb24 problem)04:29
xiangfuviric: netsurf works fine.  (not like links2 rgb23 problem) :)04:30
virichmm strange. I thought the problem would be in directfb, and not on links2.04:30
viricI'll try!04:30
xiangfuviric: kyak have make a screenshot: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/netsurf.png04:30
virickyak uses the malta framebuffer for his screenshots, isn't it? ;)04:31
kyaknot at all, that one is nativately from Ben :)04:31
virichehe ok04:32
virickyak: does netsurf work without a mouse?04:33
kyaknot really04:33
virickyak: and do you have any kind of mouse working in it?04:33
kyakthey have only limited support for keys in sdl mode04:33
viricnetsurf can be built for sdl?04:33
kyakso basically it's arrow keys and that's all04:33
viricbut the arrow keys move the mouse cursor?04:33
kyakviric: and there is a keymouse, which is working fine with netsurf04:34
viricok04:34
kyakthe arrow keys move the scrollbars04:34
viricok04:35
viricMaybe I'll use a combination of lynx + feh, or elinks + feh04:35
kyakbtw, i managed to build netsurf for gtk2 over directfb04:35
viricthat looks more prepared for browsing with a keyboard04:36
kyakand it has buttons and stuff, but super slow04:36
viricah..04:36
kyaki gave ti up then04:36
viricthat screenshot is for netsurf-on-sdl then?04:36
kyakyes04:36
viricaah.04:36
kyakthey guys from #netsurf actually advised that gtk shouldn'e be run on 320x24004:37
viricaha04:37
kyakthen they saw 32 Mb of memory on Ben and said to decrease buffers :)04:37
viricwhat does it mean, 'decrease buffers'?04:38
kyakbut they didn't say anything about sdl other than it is not very well supported04:38
kyakcache size04:38
viricahh04:38
viricTheir web page does not say anything on sdl04:38
kyakyes, it's hidden04:38
kyakreally it was dissapoiinting to see that sdl depends on mouse so much04:39
virichm04:39
kyakthey gave some links though.. showing that it is not hard to implement a better support for keyboard04:40
kyakbut i somehow lost interest at that point :)04:41
viricclear.04:42
viricso you don't use any browser there?04:42
viricI'm using the nanonote mostly as 1) a platform to learn about embedded devices and 2) an offline RSS reader04:42
viricmy 2nd point still does not have proper 'offline' images04:43
viricbut I plan to be able to see images there, and in a browser (the RSS world is quite browser-coupled)04:43
viricI really don't know what more to do with a ben :)04:43
Action: wpwrak_ wonders if there's a mouse with a thin cable and a PS/2 connector04:43
viricwpwrak_: there is where?04:44
virickyak: the other idea is to make links2 work with -g :)  but it really wants a mouse too.04:44
wpwrak_(thin cable) like in those (USB) travel mice that contain a reel inside that hosts the cable when not in use04:45
wpwrak_viric: in general. obtainable :)04:45
freespacei got links2 -g to work, it ain't pretty, it's also pretty much unusable due to the small screen estate04:45
wpwrak_viric: if there was, one could make a little mouse board for the uSD slot04:45
viricwpwrak_: yes. nice tool :)04:45
viricwasn't there in the list someone asking for gimp? haha04:46
wpwrak_viric: with a thin cable, the mechanical stress wouldn't be too bad (well, unless you pull ;-)04:46
viricfreespace: is that painting 3/4 of the screen?04:46
wpwrak_viric: blender ! :)04:46
freespacei can't remember, but possibly. my main take away was that links2 just isn't usable b/c its widgets are huge and so is the font rendering04:47
Action: freespace is ashamed to admit his ben hasn't seen much use04:47
viricfreespace: can't that be changed?04:54
viric(for sizes)04:54
viricwpwrak_: we may have povray :)04:54
viricwpwrak_: which is keyboard-friendly04:55
viricSo, I plan to be able to see maps in the nanonote, and read RSS.04:55
freespacei have no doubt it can be, but it seems like massive amount of effort04:55
viricIt's perfect to read RSS on car trips when my wife drives :)04:55
freespacecompared to chosing another browser04:55
viricfreespace: ok. Now I'm happy with lynx on fbterm (text size 9)04:56
freespacenod04:56
viricgdi04:56
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add new packages recently added in openwrt-package.git http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3c34e1004:57
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system, group up it a little http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/36f815604:57
xiangfuviric: the tangogps is just like the links2 use 3/4 of the screen.04:59
wolfspraulxiangfu: when I checkout origin/debian from the fped git repository, what command do I use to build the .deb package?05:04
wolfsprauldo I just run debuild in the root directory?05:04
xiangfuwolfspraul: first need get the orig source. by "./debian/rules get-orig-source"05:06
xiangfu1. mv fped_0.0+r5986.orig.tar.gz ..05:07
wolfspraulthe sources are already in the debian branch05:07
xiangfuwolfspraul: yes. we need create the orig.tar.gz package. and this package must get from upstream.05:07
xiangfu1. "./debian/rules get-orig-source"  2. mv fped_0.0+r5986.orig.tar.gz .. 3. debuild05:08
wolfspraulok, I try05:08
viricxiangfu: hm problem then05:08
wolfspraulalso I noticed there is a Build-Dependency of bash >= 405:08
wolfspraulthe bash in Debian Lenny is 3.2. I am just wondering why the fped build requires a feature that is only present in bash >= 4?05:09
viriclarsc: do you know anything about the framebuffer in the nanonote, and the pixel format there?05:09
viricxiangfu: is tangogps a directfb program too?05:09
wpwrak_wolfspraul: the bash feature it needs is the $PIPESTATUS array. it also uses $(shell ...), but that's just opportunistic05:12
xiangfuxiangfu: from the makefile it's depends gtk2. not directfb.05:12
xiangfuviric: ^05:12
viricxiangfu: it may be gtk2 built for directfb then05:13
viricxiangfu: or maybe there is a small X server05:13
xiangfuviric: you mean in NanoNote?05:13
viricyes05:13
xiangfuviric: there is no X in nanonote.05:13
viricIsn't there that kdrive server?05:14
xiangfuviric: no.05:15
xiangfuviric: maybe we try port is to openwrt05:15
wolfspraulxiangfu: fped build worked, thanks!05:15
wpwrak_wolfspraul: PIPESTATUS should have been around since version 2. last serious bug fixed in 2.0205:16
wolfspraulwell that's my point. build-depends says bash >= 405:17
wolfspraulI found that a bit unusual, but OK. I guess we depend on something that was introduced only in 4.0 ...05:17
wpwrak_i think >= 2 should be okay05:17
wolfspraulmaybe there is something in the other packages in build-depends, that in turn requires bash >= 405:17
wpwrak_chances are that dependency is just whatever was around when the dependency was created :)05:18
xiangfuI can not remember why I set it >= 4. sorry.05:18
wpwrak_wolfspraul: did you build it with bash 3 or did you upgrade to bash 4 ?05:19
wolfspraulit won't let me build with bash < 4, and I didn't try to force it05:19
wolfspraulso I just upgraded, and it worked. I just found it unusual. Maybe an indirect dependency.05:19
viricwhat is fped?05:19
virichttps://fedorahosted.org/fedora-electronic-lab/wiki/PCB/fped this?05:20
wolfspraulxiangfu: at least from my perspective, no need to study this further. bash >= 4 it is :-)05:20
wolfspraulbut it means that someone on Debian lenny cannot build fped without cherry-picking a testing bash.05:21
wpwrak_it's probably safe to set the dependency to bash >= 305:25
wpwrak_unfortunately, i can't test it on my system with a version 3 bash, be cause that one doesn't have imagemagick - and a ton of blockers when i try to install it :-(05:25
wpwrak_(it's an ancient gentoo that strictly adheres to "never change a running system" :)05:26
kyakviric: i'm using lynx on Ben, personally05:29
virickyak: same here05:29
wolfspraulthe 12/1 community news are not in good shape, so maybe we push them forward to 1/1 ?05:30
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2010-12-0105:30
wolfspraulthere are some nice bits and pieces in there, but the text is not readable/unedited imo05:30
wpwrak_wolfspraul: you still have one day ;-)05:31
wolfspraulexactly05:31
wolfspraulbut 5 days of work to do before the day ends...05:31
wpwrak_wolfspraul: as long as there's something worth reporting, that's good. remember the low sales figures :)05:31
wpwrak_kristianpaul: the community news say "100MHz scopemeters". did you use a scopemeter or just the 150 MHz scope ? (i.e., the GDS-820S)05:34
wpwrak_wolfspraul: if you want another picture of on-going work in wpan, you can include this one: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/ants-s1.png05:36
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add new package gmenu2x icons: aewan, byobu, mc, powertop, snownews, tunec http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f0ef44305:36
wpwrak_(i should probably rename it to ants-headache, though :)05:36
wpwrak_wolfspraul: courage ! you can do it ! :-)05:36
wpwrak_wolfspraul: you can also mention the knitted bags. ah, and don't we have an openwrt rootfs update now, with qt fixed and such ?05:38
wpwrak_wolfspraul: burst-tools and fped into debian are mentioned twice05:39
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: remove VERSION, add more configure to directfbrc http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f5fd25105:40
wpwrak_wolfspraul: maybe s/Wikipedia pages/pages on Wikipedia/ ? that way, one is less likely to mentally substitute "wiki" and thus get a little confused (like i did :)05:41
wolfspraulthe page needs a lot of editing, imo05:41
wolfspraulthat's why I'd rather push it out to 1/105:41
wpwrak_wolfspraul: would be nice to have Ethernet OUI and the USB ID close to each other05:42
wolfspraulit's just 'draft notes' right now05:42
wpwrak_the november edition wasn't *that* much more detailed ...05:42
wolfspraulthat's a while chart there! (ben-wpan antennas)05:42
wolfspraulwild05:42
wpwrak_(knitting) ah, that one actually made it into november. so one item less to write :)05:43
wolfspraulwhy is the legend on the right side extending into the graph?05:43
wpwrak_(legend) because that's where gnuplot puts it by default :)05:43
wpwrak_this plot just gives a rough idea how the various antennas behave. each nnnA or nnnB is a different antenna. the 0 or 1 at the end is the number of the measurement run05:52
wpwrak_for more detailed comparisons, i just pick a few data sets05:52
wpwrak_i'll take a picture of the antennas in a bit. camera batter is recharging ...05:53
kristianpaulwpwrak_: ahh, my fault, in that time i wasnt aware of all the Scope  features, actually i was hoping to find at least 100Mhz Scope05:59
wolfspraulkristianpaul: did you write this? "Incoming Support for SIE sofware devel enviroment in OE/Jlime platform" (sorry too lazy to check in the page history :-))06:02
wolfspraulwhat does it mean? "incoming support"06:02
kristianpauloh sorry06:03
kristianpaulwell you said "just write it i'll fix later"06:03
kristianpaulwait06:04
wolfspraulhe, sure :-) I can fix it, but fix == delete :-)06:04
kristianpaulWork in progress support ...06:04
kristianpauli think sound better06:04
wolfspraulthe page needs a lot of editing anyway, like I said I am voting for pushing it to 1/106:04
wolfspraulwhat's the value of rushing out sloppy news, don't know...06:05
kristianpaulsure06:05
wolfspraulI will try to edit it a bit later, currently busy testing the first Milkymist One RC2 board...06:05
kristianpaulme too i'm just taking freakast i'll edit in some hours06:06
kristianpaulsee ya06:06
wolfspraulenjoy06:06
kristianpaulis that bad if i put a link to jlime.com (fot the Jlime and SIE related news)06:10
wolfspraulI would not do it, but we have lots of links to openwrt.org too06:11
kristianpaulsure np i can mention i think is easlly findable in g00gl306:11
kristianpaulyes it is06:12
kristianpaulok leaving now06:12
kristianpauli edited wiki please look and comment, wpwrak_ too :)06:13
wolfspraulhe :-)06:14
Action: wpwrak_ wonders what kristianpaul is having for freakast ... eyeballs of white mice slaughtered by seven black cats at midnight, perhaps ?06:14
wolfspraulfor me the format is Who did what, why, what's the benefit. [url]06:14
wolfspraulalso news != announcements, imo. So I wouldn't say something is 'in progress'. That just means the 'news' should come later when it's done.06:15
wpwrak_"electronic lab" or "electronics lab" ?06:15
wolfspraultoo incremental is no news either06:15
wolfspraulwell maybe I do go over it with a sledge hammer later today, only to avoid that someone pushes it out at the current quality level tomorrow :-)06:16
wolfspraulbut I will cut a lot...06:16
wpwrak_news/progress depends a bit on the target audience and if you have enough "real" news06:16
wolfspraulthat's why I say just push it out, it's not edited to a readable standard yet06:17
wolfspraulwe'll see. edits are good, thanks kristianpaul!06:17
wpwrak_(target) e.g., you also want to show the project is alive. if everybody is busy with long-term stuff that's still activity.06:17
wolfspraulincremental stuff is not good, imo06:17
wpwrak_okay, even less material to beat into shape then. you'll finish even before the deadline ;-)06:18
viriclarsc: do you know if there should be any trouble using an RGB32 pixel format in the nanonote framebuffer? Do you know details on the framebuffer?06:25
larscthe framebuffer uses RGB3206:34
wpwrak_kristianpaul, wolfspraul: for the UdV entry: "electronic lab" or "electronics lab" ? is the intended meaning "the branch of physics that deals with the behavior of electrons" ? (from CIDE, "electronics"). in think in spanish, the equivalent word is "electronica" (singular), german "Elektronik"07:13
wpwrak_(NB: "Elektronik" and "electronics" have a dual meaning, namely the underlying physics and their application. i think it's the same in Spanish, too.)07:14
wpwrak_of course, then there is "fedora-electronic-lab" ... :)07:16
wpwrak_... which may also be a double entendre. hmm. google favours "electronics lab" 5:208:02
viricwpwrak_: for me it looks like the difference on taller electrónico / taller de electrónica08:07
wpwrak_viric: yeah, it's clearer in spanish ;-)08:20
kristianpaulwpwrak_: (freakfast ) now way, some bread, eggs and "platano" chips with "jugo de guayaba"09:02
kristianpaulwpwrak_: (electronic lab*) well actually i dint came up with that name, it just was here in the qi wiki one day, i just follow it as a cow ;)09:03
kristianpaulbefore electronic lab* it was called hardware hacker board09:04
kristianpaulso..09:04
kristianpauli really dont care about it, for me just call it SIE (whatever it means in spanish)09:05
kristianpaulSIE Board, thats it :)09:06
wpwrak_kristianpaul: no, i mean "use their 150 Mhz Digital Oscilloscope in their electronic lab."09:09
kristianpaulahh09:09
wpwrak_kristianpaul: or do you mean that the university called their e-lab "hardware hacker board" ? (possible, but unusual :)09:09
kristianpaulthat one09:09
kristianpaulwpwrak_: you think the correct is electronics lab?09:10
wpwrak_kristianpaul: i think so, yes. see also "dict electronics"09:11
kristianpaulwpwrak_: sure sure, please edit my enlgish brain dictionary is kinda small i trust you09:12
wpwrak_kristianpaul: but i'm not entirely sure what the status of "electronic lab" as a potential synonym is. any native english speakers around ? :)09:12
kristianpaul:/09:13
kristianpaulhe09:13
viricI also think 'electronics lab' looks better09:14
viric(My vote is not from a native english speaker)09:15
kristianpaulyeah is okay acording to this chat http://paste.debian.net/101132/09:16
wpwrak_updated. thanks !09:21
kristianpaul:D09:22
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: Some progress in the BOOKSHELF file http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/42d960812:20
kristianpaulrafa_: are you aware of status of gta-02 ?12:26
kristianpaulyou said somewhere you checked the mail list time to time..12:27
kristianpauli'm just curios no more12:27
kyakanybody willing to test reflash_ben.sh with a progress bar?12:47
kyakhttp://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/reflash_ben.progress.patch12:47
kyakthe patch against the latest version of reflash_ben.sh from git (512Mb rootfs)12:47
wpwrak_btw, does anyone know if ubifs a) relocates blocks at all, and if yes, b) also on reads ? (e.g., when correcting a single-bit error)13:03
qwebirc22438???13:50
qi-bot[commit] kyak: nightsky: fix postinstall http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/d2cd55b13:53
kristianpaulqwebirc22438: hi13:54
qwebirc22438hi13:55
wpwrak_for those who like pictures - my antenna testing setup: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/antfarm.jpg15:41
kristianpaulwpwrak_: i cant zoom in ;)15:54
kristianpaulbut got the idea15:54
kristianpaulbtw what about distances about 10m ?15:54
wpwrak_kristianpaul: the distance between sender and receiver (the picture shows the receiver) is about 3.7 m15:58
wpwrak_(zoom) this is the full resolution: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/IMG_0661.JPG15:59
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv: remove unnecessary double quotes in assignments http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/3b3c4bf17:41
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv: make "dsv setup" accept spaces in names and aliases http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/92cb58017:41
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv (search): quote file name, so that we can also look up names with spaces http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/e928d8217:41
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv: in names, convert / to %2F and % to %25 http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/be2699817:41
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv (setup): make sure file ends with a newline, so that we can "read" it http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/f207be617:41
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv (list): use "ls -b" to avoid confusing "column" with 8 bit characters http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/4f6559317:41
wpwrak_andres-calderon: phew. you're a good tester :)17:41
andres-calderonwpwrak_: I am  not  a very good tester, but I'm ready for testing.18:02
wpwrak_andres-calderon: heh, about a fifth of the names you used triggered some problem in dsv. that's pretty good ;-) (well, or very sloppy on my part :)18:11
andres-calderonwpwrak_: ok, I like to help ... Your project  is very pertinent.18:13
wpwrak_andres-calderon: btw, dsv is case-sensitive. so those long upper-case names may get a bit inconvenient. well, when you use dsv a bit, you'll get a feeling for which names are convenient and which aren't.18:14
wpwrak_heh, thanks :)18:14
andres-calderonwpwrak_: ok18:16
andres-calderonwpwrak_: I would like to help coding, I can help in low-priority tasks.18:19
wpwrak_andres-calderon: anything specific you were thinking of ? which programming languages are you comfortable with ?18:25
andres-calderonwpwrak_:  C/C++/python/bash/java   (and php, but is a bit embarrassing :) )18:29
andres-calderonwpwrak_:  I can help in the program that compares PCBs, if it has not been started.18:31
wpwrak_great, almost all major languages !18:34
wpwrak_the pcb comparator is indeed something that's not done yet18:35
wpwrak_and it would be very very useful to have18:35
wpwrak_if you want to do it as a comparison of postscript, then a first step could be to add a non-interactive postscript "plot" to pcbnew, similar to my --plot option for eeschema18:37
wpwrak_a word of warning, though: kicad is written in - in my opinion - quite ugly C++. so it's not easy and you need a strong stomach :)18:38
andres-calderonwpwrak_: jeje18:39
andres-calderonwpwrak_: I think I can make a proof of concept in python  this month.   just when be finished the  Xué desing verification18:40
andres-calderonI thought of integrating XMPP to kicad to provide a mechanism for online collaborative work . But I do not think I have enough time soon.18:43
wpwrak_(proof of concept) sounds great18:44
wpwrak_(xmpp) hmm, sounds like a major extension. you should propose/discuss such things on the kicad developer's list.18:45
andres-calderonok, I will write soon on the list.18:48
andres-calderonthe antfarm look great :)18:49
wpwrak_making an rf circuit work is messy stuff ... :)18:51
andres-calderonRF  look like magic for me.18:55
wpwrak_i think it is :)18:57
DominicChowhey guys19:41
DominicChowwhat is this chan about?19:41
rafa_kristianpaul: gta02-core has not traffic.. the project waited Sean (openmoko owner) to send freerunner parts IIRC.. and he promised but he did not do20:22
rafa_kristianpaul: but better if you ask gta02-core main developer :D20:23
rohi wouldnt bet on that.20:27
roh(getting any parts)20:35
wpwrak_yeah, rather unlikely now ...20:36
wolfspraulandres-calderon: hey Andres, you are here now! cool!23:14
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