| ss547 | i had problm with my pc | 00:33 |
|---|---|---|
| wpwrak | heh, this time i found the piranha ratio - 3 rounds of etching in just 20 minutes. watch this, iron(III) chloride ! :) | 02:50 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 02:56 |
| viric | wpwrak: I'd like to learn to make my own PCBs by chemicals... can you recommend any book about that, covering different techniques? | 04:27 |
| wpwrak | viric: not sure if there are books ... | 06:57 |
| wpwrak | viric: this document has some of the process i used a few years ago: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/led-toy/ledtoy-building-0pre9.pdf | 07:00 |
| viric | thank you! | 07:03 |
| viric | I'll read it. | 07:03 |
| wpwrak | viric: what has changed since: i usually cut pcbs with a CNC mill, i use a different acid, i usually use a laminator for toner transfer instead of an iron, i now use lead-free and better flux (different temperatures, different cleaning process, etc.), i use smaller components (different process) | 07:04 |
| wpwrak | (smaller comp) well, different soldering technique. depends a bit on on the type of component. back then, i thought SSOP and 0603 were the smallest i could handle :) | 07:05 |
| viric | :) | 07:07 |
| wpwrak | viric: ah yes, and the dual-sided process has a variant now that's more accurate but also slower :) | 07:08 |
| viric | and you learnt from where? | 07:08 |
| wpwrak | the internet and experimenting :) | 07:08 |
| viric | aha, ok | 07:08 |
| viric | I have some friends who master some of those techniques | 07:08 |
| viric | I'll also ask them | 07:08 |
| wpwrak | the toner transfer method is explained in great detail on the net. the reference is in the document | 07:09 |
| wpwrak | ah, another process variant: instead of acetone, which can be difficult to get, i now use paint thinner most of the time | 07:10 |
| viric | ah ok | 07:13 |
| viric | acetone is difficult to get nowadays? | 07:13 |
| viric | I did not know | 07:13 |
| viric | Does anybody know of a voip phone with open hardware? | 07:26 |
| viric | not a mobile phone | 07:27 |
| kristianpaul | viric: close i know in mesh potatoe, not sure how open hardware is, but seems is a bit | 08:13 |
| viric | kristianpaul: 'in mesh potatoe'? | 09:11 |
| viric | la malla patata? | 09:12 |
| viric | ah I found about it. | 09:12 |
| viric | the mesh potato looks great. thank you! | 09:21 |
| viric | wpwrak: I like a lot your ledtoy-building :) thank you very much! | 09:46 |
| wpwrak | you're welcome :) | 09:48 |
| kristianpaul | Is this a fifo http://paste.debian.net/100897/ ? | 11:46 |
| kristianpaul | how horrible is C++ sintax :( | 11:46 |
| kristianpaul | well not so, but this ok keep in mind object oriented thing is something i'm not used to | 11:47 |
| kristianpaul | ok.. a struct made of other struct.. http://paste.debian.net/100900/ | 11:55 |
| wpwrak | eh ? | 11:58 |
| kristianpaul | he i may be wrong, just gettting used to C++ codying style ,-) | 11:59 |
| larsc | thats C ;) | 11:59 |
| kristianpaul | ah? | 11:59 |
| wpwrak | looks pretty c-ish so far. you haven't touched the hells of C++ yet :) | 11:59 |
| kristianpaul | ohh | 12:00 |
| kristianpaul | is not .cpp C++ related? | 12:00 |
| kristianpaul | what is the purpose of a struct in C, i tought i wast just used in OO programing | 12:01 |
| viric | the purpose of a struct in C? :) | 12:01 |
| wpwrak | a struct provides structure :) | 12:02 |
| wpwrak | "oo" is a sound programmers make when experiencing pain | 12:02 |
| viric | hehe | 12:02 |
| viric | kristianpaul: programming science developed some abstractions over linear memory, since some time ago | 12:03 |
| kristianpaul | yeah :), but.. is like like create a new type of variable? | 12:03 |
| Action: kristianpaul reads wikipedia | 12:04 | |
| viric | there are even more abstractions beyond 'int' | 12:05 |
| wpwrak | bah, void * and __asm__ is all you need :) | 12:07 |
| viric | if talking about 'needs', yes :) | 12:07 |
| kristianpaul | oh thre is a fftw implementation in asm? ;) | 12:07 |
| kristianpaul | s/thre/there | 12:08 |
| viric | part of the humanity (although little) have the chance to go beyond 'needs' tohugh | 12:08 |
| kristianpaul | damn i'm ignorant in C :/ | 12:15 |
| viric | That is a good start, for learning! :) | 12:15 |
| viric | Does the nanonote 'reboot' well? | 12:17 |
| viric | I mean... I got "halp -pf" finally powering off | 12:18 |
| kristianpaul | halp? | 12:18 |
| viric | halt | 12:18 |
| viric | :) | 12:18 |
| viric | halt -p does not power off though | 12:18 |
| kristianpaul | oh i was scare for a while | 12:18 |
| kristianpaul | what about init? | 12:18 |
| viric | sysvinit | 12:19 |
| viric | # runlevel | 12:19 |
| viric | 3 6 | 12:19 |
| viric | started at 3, now at 6. | 12:20 |
| viric | (notice dropbear still has my shell open) | 12:20 |
| kristianpaul | oh is a collection | 12:23 |
| kristianpaul | better ilustrated in a cartesian plot | 12:23 |
| viric | :D | 12:33 |
| viric | it only shows the 'start' and the current | 12:34 |
| kristianpaul | aahh int16t is prefered because MMS/SSE use it | 15:34 |
| kristianpaul | ben simd uses same?.. | 15:35 |
| kristianpaul | hmm what happen if for now i just ignore Imaginary part.. | 15:47 |
| wpwrak_ | your bandwidth drops by 50% ? | 16:14 |
| wpwrak_ | kristianpaul: but why do you want to optimize now ? have you already decoded some samples ? | 16:52 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak_: no, i'm impplementing verilog module to be loaded ina memory buffer then dumped to the nand, | 17:25 |
| kristianpaul | ok not optimize now :) | 17:25 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak_: actually bandwich is same, i still usign an int8_t or int16_t | 17:27 |
| kristianpaul | just less bits filled | 17:27 |
| wpwrak_ | (bw) what I mean is that, if you drop the imaginary part, this is equivalent to sampling at half the rate | 17:33 |
| wpwrak_ | well, more or less equivalent, i guess :) | 17:33 |
| wpwrak_ | do you already have suitable algorithms for processing Q/I data ? or do you have to design them yourself ? | 17:34 |
| kristianpaul | gps-sdr is my first guide | 17:42 |
| kristianpaul | i just documenting my self to make data wasy to be intepreted ny this software | 17:42 |
| kristianpaul | whoa ! i have a mail from then, since monday, (about some questions i made) lets see | 17:43 |
| kristianpaul | other similar projects (with closed hardware stuff) use it | 17:44 |
| kristianpaul | so i decide follow since at least the prove it that can be forked | 17:44 |
| kristianpaul | jsut for this step in wich i just plan use SIE as front end to the SiGE EVB | 17:45 |
| wpwrak_ | so the algorithms they have look usable to you ? i.e., they have the right data format and so on ? (or if they don't, you know how to convert between the format you have and theirs ?) | 17:45 |
| kristianpaul | (if they don't,) i find out how to format the data | 17:48 |
| kristianpaul | i'm findig* | 17:48 |
| kristianpaul | whoa looks this project, thats stuuf that google dint tell in the first page ;) http://www.gmat.unsw.edu.au/namuru/ | 17:48 |
| wpwrak_ | big board with big antennas :) | 17:50 |
| wpwrak_ | ah o, they're shields. better ;) | 17:51 |
| kristianpaul | well it was a link froma reply from one sdr-gps developer wich is aware i'm using fpga stuff | 17:55 |
| kristianpaul | ah tricky why use 2 bits sign/magn if from the posible 4 results 2 have no sense (+0, -0) so the other SiGE chip just used 1 bit for phase and qautrautre ! | 18:02 |
| kristianpaul | s/qautrautre/quadrature | 18:02 |
| wpwrak_ | 0 does seem to convey information. +/- seems wasteful, though | 18:03 |
| kristianpaul | yeah but i ditn get that the week before, and was strugling because it | 18:04 |
| wpwrak_ | so you basically have three deltas encoded in two bits: -quantum, no change, +qantum, right ? | 18:05 |
| kristianpaul | yes | 18:05 |
| wpwrak_ | kewl, i understood something :) | 18:06 |
| kristianpaul | ? | 18:06 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 18:06 |
| kristianpaul | no change is tricky (i dint get how will help me) | 18:07 |
| kristianpaul | :p | 18:07 |
| wpwrak_ | do you feed the data directly into the FFT or do you integrate first ? | 18:12 |
| kristianpaul | good question :) | 18:14 |
| kristianpaul | that a BIG doubt i have | 18:14 |
| kristianpaul | FFT can handle of course real and imaginary data | 18:14 |
| kristianpaul | at least a book i have said that, but i'm not aware of how gps-sdr handle it | 18:15 |
| kristianpaul | i'll ask that to the developer :) | 18:15 |
| wpwrak_ | maybe try to find some example of anything that uses a sign/magnitude stream and see what they do with it ? | 18:16 |
| wpwrak_ | could be that there's also some other kind of filtering or stuff you can do first. just integrating seems a bit wasteful. e.g., there may be useful phase information in the high-rate bitstream. | 18:17 |
| wpwrak_ | there's also something called decimation. that's also a rate reduction. the USRP uses it quite heavily. (as in "you must decimate or it won't work") i haven't investigated that yet, though :) | 18:18 |
| kristianpaul | ha i need calculate or get from somwhere a itnermediate frequency | 18:24 |
| kristianpaul | but i just have filter centre freq and bandwich.. | 18:25 |
| kristianpaul | ok, there is a radio eng aroudn? | 18:25 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 18:25 |
| wpwrak_ | would be kinda useful for me, too :) | 18:25 |
| wpwrak_ | eventually, i figure out everything i need by myself, but a quick answer sometimes beats weeks of trial and error :) | 18:26 |
| kristianpaul | hope wolfgang read this log :) | 18:26 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak_: (weeks of trial and error) totally agree | 18:27 |
| kristianpaul | well i my case read read and confuse then re-read to getter the idea and read again, | 18:33 |
| kristianpaul | but i'm close to start trail and error | 18:33 |
| wpwrak_ | the read-confuse-read-... cycle is also a good one ;-) | 18:40 |
| kristianpaul | s/trail/trial | 18:50 |
| kristianpaul | http://www.dynamics.co.nz/index.php?main_page=page&id=9 This fully functional GPS receiver design can provide 12 or more channels of parallel tracking hardware and software. | 19:02 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak_: ^ well if the antenna is big looks good anyway :) | 19:03 |
| kristianpaul | 12 channels is heacy my current closed source gps cant handle more than 8, with the test i made | 19:03 |
| kristianpaul | ha Zarlink is SiGE competitor | 19:05 |
| kristianpaul | i'll enjoy GPS reading this week :) | 19:06 |
| kristianpaul | http://www.zarlink.com/zarlink/hs/82_GP2015.htm <- Application Notes :O | 19:06 |
| wpwrak_ | monster circuits :) | 19:08 |
| kristianpaul | mosnter in wich sense? | 19:09 |
| wpwrak_ | (zarlink) also sign/mag. but simpler protocol - no SYNC | 19:12 |
| wpwrak_ | (monster) lot of stuff on these boards | 19:12 |
| kristianpaul | yeah i noticed no SYNC :/ | 19:12 |
| kristianpaul | lots stuff indeed :) | 19:12 |
| kristianpaul | ha they sell a "GPS Receiver Baseband Processor" | 19:13 |
| kristianpaul | i wonder why still usign to separate chips | 19:13 |
| kristianpaul | ah got my answer here http://gps.psas.pdx.edu/ | 19:18 |
| kristianpaul | may be that the GP4020 chipset isn't going to be available for a long time | 19:19 |
| kristianpaul | quuoting^ | 19:19 |
| wpwrak_ | yeah. there may simply be no sufficient economical incentive to integrate everything into once chip. depends on their customers and technical capabilities. | 19:20 |
| kristianpaul | http://oscar.dcarr.org/ssrp/index.php | 19:31 |
| kristianpaul | Namuru V2 GPS receiver without IMU $4,620.00 USD !! | 19:40 |
| kristianpaul | WHAT? | 19:40 |
| kristianpaul | then you get the sources | 19:40 |
| kristianpaul | ha | 19:40 |
| kristianpaul | well if is GPL/BSD anyw ay is okay they are not pushed to make stuuf public | 19:45 |
| kristianpaul | stuff* | 19:45 |
| kristianpaul | "--prefix=/usr" <. que peligro | 20:05 |
| kristianpaul | para eso iventaron /opt .. | 20:05 |
| kristianpaul | en fin | 20:05 |
| kristianpaul | oops | 20:07 |
| kristianpaul | (decimation) not for me i dont want deal with more downsampling processes.. | 20:31 |
| kristianpaul | [the USRP uses it quite heavily. (as in "you must decimate or it won't work")] wow, i wonder why and in wich step is used | 20:32 |
| kristianpaul | may be i wont work on some not so FAST computers? | 20:33 |
| kristianpaul | missing 8 cores and 8Gb in ram? :) | 20:33 |
| kristianpaul | ah wait | 20:35 |
| kristianpaul | "D set = decimate (1 bit instead of 2)" | 20:35 |
| wpwrak_ | naw, the ADC produces 100 MSa/s, but you can only transfer about 25 MSa/s to the PC. that's why you need to decimate by at least 4. | 20:35 |
| kristianpaul | is what i commented before about 2bits are not needed | 20:35 |
| wpwrak_ | 1 Sample = 2 * 16 bits, so 25 MSa/s = 800 Mbps | 20:36 |
| kristianpaul | yes make sense | 20:36 |
| wpwrak_ | decimation works on the complex value and still gives complex as a result. there's no escape ;-) | 20:36 |
| kristianpaul | tell me more if you found something more about it, looks intersting | 20:39 |
| kristianpaul | oh you meant hacked in the good sense? | 20:50 |
| kristianpaul | oops | 20:50 |
| kristianpaul | damn irssi windows | 20:50 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: vialtray: make a tray for vials containing 0402/0603 components (in progress) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/1d72af7 | 20:55 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: libbb: library for bit-banging the Ben's uSD port (in progress) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/458702c | 20:55 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: vialtray: ready for first test run (on-going) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/649e00b | 20:55 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: vialtray: more parameter adjustments http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/1d24b2e | 23:30 |
| --- Sun Nov 28 2010 | 00:00 | |
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