#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2010-11-14

kyakrafa: great job, congrats!00:24
kyakxiangfu: now that gmenu2x is running from initd, setfont2 has to be invoked manually each time -\00:29
wpwrakrafa: wheee !00:40
wpwrakrafa: just poking around the jlime resources ... regarding PS1='\h$ ', why not PS1='\h\$ ' ? (in case you haven't found this one already)01:07
wpwrakrafa: if i install jlime and i want to compile a "hello world" for it, how do i do this ? i.e., what do i install on my host and what do i put into my Makefile ? (i hope the answer to the first question isn't "OE" ;-)01:21
rafawpwrak: the prompt was meant to use a short space on the current line.. but it shoulg be \h\$01:22
rafashoulg=should01:22
rafawpwrak: to compile hello world : wget http://jlime.com/downloads/development/crosscompilers/jlime-mipsel-toolchain.tar.gz01:24
rafawpwrak: to build the hello I put the toolchain under /usr/local/jlime.. Something like :01:25
rafamkdir /usr/local/jlime01:25
rafacd /usr/local/jlime01:25
rafatar xvzf /tmp/jlime-mipsel-toolchain.tar.gz01:25
rafathen.. the Makefile should say :01:25
rafa-I /usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/include01:26
rafa-L/usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/lib01:26
rafaand your PATH should be something like PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/bin/01:26
rafaunder /usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/bin/ you will find th01:27
rafae mipsel-toolcahin-* gcc and friends01:27
rafawpwrak: because this toolcahin comes from OE it will complain if you try to build with it using something like -I/usr/include or -L/usr/lib (it does not like if you try to use your host headers or libs)01:28
rafaGCC should be mipsel-toolchain-gcc , LD should be mipsel-toolchain-ld .. etc.01:30
rafawpwrak: to build kernel using that toolchain : http://jlime.com/downloads/releases/muffinman/documentation/kernel-nn.txt01:31
wolfspraulrafa: fantastic, congratulations!01:35
wpwrakrafa: thanks ! downloading ...01:37
wpwrakrafa: btw, the toolchain shouldn't really need -I and -L for standard includes/libs. but let's see ...01:38
wpwrakrafa: btw, all the directories in that URL are inaccessible. that's not so nice. e.g., when a URL changes, one can often find the right name by searching around a bit. if directory listings are blocked, you don't have a chance01:42
rafawpwrak: (toolchain): no idea.. I have had problems with the toolchain complaining when some Makefile spec /usr/lib or /usr/include01:42
wpwrakhehe, a toolchain with /etc/rc* ;-)01:42
wpwrakyes, if they specify -I and -L of absolute paths directly, they're doomed01:43
rafawpwrak: ha.. (stuff on toolchain) ..: that comes from extra libs I would say (from packages I unpackaged under toolchain)01:44
wpwrak/usr/mipsel-linux/lib-oldbackup/ ? huh :)01:44
wpwrakah, more hairy stuff in there. /usr/include/smpeg01:45
rafawpwrak: ha.. sorry.. but that toolchain comes from jlime.com.. if you want I can work in a new one01:45
rafawpwrak: (you downloaded it from http://jlime.com/downloads/development/crosscompilers/jlime-mipsel-toolchain.tar.gz right?)01:46
wpwrakyes, i downloaded the url you gave me01:46
rafawpwrak: yes.. the only one around. That is from jlime.com so it is the standar one with all the packages01:46
wpwrakwill it be easy to kick out the "bad" packages ?01:47
rafawpwrak: today I will built a new one without bad packages so we can upload it as well under qi01:48
wpwrakkewl. thanks a lot !01:48
rafawpwrak: moreover that toolchain is a bit old and I am not sure the current status (I just use it to build the kernel or uboot)01:48
wpwrakright now, i'm just after builing my little atrf-rssi. well, hello.c first ;-)01:50
rafawell, hello.c will be okey to build :)01:51
wpwrakhmm. my host is x86_64. here we have the first problem ...01:54
rafawpwrak: :( can not you run 32bit as well?02:04
wpwrakthis helps: http://qtmoko.org/wiki/GITs02:07
wpwraknow it doesn't find crt1.o ...02:07
wpwrakit tries interesting paths ;-) /mnt/sda6/programas/stuff/tmp/staging/mipsel-linux/lib/mipsel-linux/4.4.2/crt1.o02:13
wpwrakthere's a bit of weird stuff, e.g., /usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/bin/../lib/gcc/mipsel-linux/4.4.2/../../../../mipsel-linux/lib -> /mnt/sda6/programas/stuff/tmp/staging/mipsel-linux/usr/lib02:16
wpwraki wonder if the toolchain is really fully relocatable in general. it's very close to working, but ...02:22
wpwrakanyway, i'll be back after a nap02:23
rafawpwrak: at least it does not try /porn_downloadedbysister/ or stuff like that :) .. Those paths are from the host built. THere are few recipes to build an external toolchain. I will buid and I will upload02:23
wpwrakyeah, such paths could be revealing ;-)02:25
wpwrak(ext toolchain) great, thanks !02:26
wolfspraulrafa: are we ready to move to the dual-booting stage?02:53
wolfspraulmaybe we need another (hard-coded) partition scheme for that :-) how about this: 4 mb u-boot, 8 mb kernel1, 8mb kernel2, 512mb rootfs1, 512mb rootfs2, rest is (ubi-formatted?) data partition?02:55
kyaklol04:31
kyaktalks about another change :)04:32
kyakhow about 5 kernels?04:32
wolfspraulkyak: so how would you go about the jlime/openwrt dual booting?04:33
kyakwolfspraul: do you plan shipping new devices with two operating systems?04:36
kyakthis might be so very confusing04:36
kyaki imagine that i buy a new phone, switch it on and have two options to boot04:37
wolfspraulkyak: I can't make decisions so broadly, there are too many pros and cons.04:42
wolfspraulof course asking "do you want jlime or openwrt?" is, well, laughable :-)04:43
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [nanoterm] [new package] a terminal for NanoNote http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/912411904:43
wolfsprauland all sorts of solutions can be imagined, too many (and too many pros and cons for each) to discuss.04:44
wolfspraulso I rather go along very practical lines.04:44
wolfsprauldo we have a Jlime image now? yes04:44
wolfspraulis it patent-safe so that distributors can (with some certainty) resell NanoNote with that image? yes04:44
wolfspraulis the image functional? many people like it, so yes04:45
wolfspraulso if that's the case, wouldn't we want to make it easier for people to try out this work? especially considering that we ship the NanoNote with a >80% empty NAND?04:45
wolfspraulI think yes, we should make that easier.04:46
wolfspraulwhy not? why is that a bad idea?04:46
wolfspraulmy biggest concern is how maintainable the image is, especially on the patent side. But I think we can be assured by rafa and the Jlime crew, these guys are in for the long run.04:48
wolfspraulmirko: hey good morning :-)04:49
wolfspraulI'm writing an email with some of my image observations/testing now04:49
wolfspraulI only ran into 1 big bug, I think: I cannot quit NanoMap (it hangs), and kyak and others think that in general every Qt app will hang on exit.04:49
kyakwolfspraul: we need to come up with some plan, to fix partitions once and for all..04:52
wolfspraulkyak: what exactly bugs you about the partitions?04:55
wolfspraulwhat does the 'fix' need to make easier?04:55
kyaki don't want to save and move my data often04:56
kyakin fact, i even stayed with 256 Mb because i don't want to move my data04:56
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [stardict] add cache files for dictionary, for speed up when startup http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f179ae204:57
wolfspraulyour data is in the mtd3 partition?04:58
kyakyes04:58
wolfspraulso basically your data starts at 4+4+256=264MB, and then to the end of the 2GB?04:58
kyakindeed04:58
kyakit doesn't occupy all available space though04:58
wolfsprauland as we are coming out with new stuff, you don't want to move those 1.7GB around all the time...04:58
wolfspraulwhat filesystem are you using for your data partition?04:59
kyakit's ubifs04:59
kyakit's just a usual data partition04:59
kyakper instruction in wiki04:59
wolfspraulok let me just get a complete picture now - at which mountpoint do you have it mounted?05:00
kyak/data05:00
wolfsprauland if you stay with the 256 MB layout, that means you will not be able to reflash rootfs images if they become larger than 256 mb?05:00
kyakyes, this is right.. but my customs images won't get bigger than that05:00
kyaki've thrown away unnecessary things05:01
kyaklike php or ruby, and many other i won't ever need05:01
wolfspraulok so you are building your own openwrt rootfs anyway05:01
kyakyeah..05:01
wolfspraulbut if the partition map is hardcoded in the kernel that's yet another thing you need to fix before building your stuff?05:01
kyakyes, this is what i have to do05:02
wolfspraulhow full is your data partition?05:02
kyakit's usually arounf 1 Gb full05:02
kyaksometimes i fill it completely with movies05:03
wolfspraulok needs some thinking :-)05:04
wolfspraulI'd say no worries, if your life doesn't get easier we are doing something wrong...05:05
kyakwolfspraul: don't waste your time thinking about it.. it's not so hard for me to make some changes to hardcoded partitions05:05
kyakbefore i build05:05
wolfspraulso as long as you give some feedback, if we (or me :-)) are coming up with stupid ideas, they should get corrected before they can cause damage... :-)05:05
wolfspraulsure I can understand, but still05:06
wolfspraulthose are good use cases you have there05:06
wolfspraulin marketing speak, our 'upgrade story' is still very very bad05:06
wolfsprauland if you look at successful computing devices, it's always those with the best 'upgrade story' that have a chance to become really successful05:07
wolfspraulwhether that's installing apps, or OS updates, or good backups (device lost/stolen), etc. etc.05:07
wolfspraulso we have quite a way to go there...05:07
wolfspraulI'm definitely not only thinking about the "how can I reflash stuff" side of things. you are one step ahead. you have 1gb of data in your nand that you want to protect.05:08
wolfspraulmakes perfect sense!05:08
kyaki think the project right now in the state when it is still possible to make really big changes.. but with the time, it would not be possible any more05:08
kyakxiangfu: nanoterm looks interesting, but it's not usable?05:10
kyaki can type (in capital letters for some reason), but nothing happens05:10
xiangfukyak: someone write a terminal only for NanoNote. so we would like included by openwrt-package.git05:12
xiangfukyak: http://nterm.sourceforge.net/05:13
xiangfukyak: for now the gmenu2x start the terminal very well, I would like gmenu2x in "inittab".05:13
kyakxiangfu: does nanoterm work for you?05:13
xiangfukyak: it working. only hard to read.05:14
kyakxiangfu: about gmenu2x, the setfont2 is not started in the first terminal05:14
xiangfukyak: yes. so I would like add a "bash" to gmenu2x.05:15
xiangfuthen we can start the "bash" in gmenu2x05:15
kyakxiangfu: ah, so you would call setfont2 in the script to start "bash"?05:15
xiangfukyak: that's what I am thinking for now.05:16
kyakthat sounds right05:16
wolfspraulare there any low hanging fruits to reduce memory usage?05:22
lekernel /join #27c305:23
lekerneloops05:23
lekernelsorry05:23
kyakwolfspraul: disable syslogd and klogd05:26
kyakcan be done in /etc/init.d/boot05:26
kyakthey are invoked from there05:26
qi-bot[commit] kyak: added HISTFILE env variable in /etc/profile http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b07cc5d05:30
kyakxiangfu: btw, i'm fighting with strdict -\ it hangs at start05:32
kyakwith strace i see that one of the threads is segfaulted05:33
kyaki believe i might be because i have a somewhat minimal installation in comparison to you.. maybe stardict lacks for some library at start (though it builds fine)05:33
kyakmaybe you have some idea?05:34
wolfspraulxiangfu: are you aware of any downside of disabling syslogd and klogd?05:35
wolfspraulkyak: looking through the process list I also noticed a lot of 'loggers', if you think those 2 can be disabled then yeah, unless someone complains let's do it05:35
xiangfuwolfspraul: I don't know that.05:37
xiangfukyak: does the "loading " windows show up??05:37
kyakxiangfu: yeah, it hangs right ther05:39
kyakat "Loading"05:39
wolfspraulxiangfu: if you don't know, then I'd say let's remove them. even if there is a good reason, we will surely find it after removal :-)05:42
xiangfuwolfspraul: ok. :)05:43
qi-bot[commit] kyak: Disable syslogd and klogd http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/dcc7d7505:44
xiangfukyak: let me thinking, I think I will reply you later.  sorry.05:44
xiangfukyak: oh. you fast05:44
kyaki had this change prepared for a long time ;)05:44
kyakin fact, this is one the changes i always do before i build05:44
kyakxiangfu: sure, take your time05:45
qi-bot[commit] kyak: don't need ldd() function if actual ldd is installed http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/c7d6c1005:55
xiangfukyak: hi. I make the "ash" works in gmenu2x.05:56
xiangfubut maybe it's not very good. because I goot one message like: "can't access tty; job control truned off"05:56
kyakwhat's your wrapper script look like?05:57
xiangfutitle=ash05:57
xiangfuexec=/usr/sbin/setfont205:57
xiangfuparams=/usr/share/setfont2/un-fuzzy-6x10-font.pnm && /bin/ash05:57
xiangfu^05:57
xiangfukyak: ^05:57
kyakthis is a hack :)05:58
kyakyou are actually injecting another command in gmenu2x params :)05:58
xiangfuI don't know why this script not reading the /etc/profile05:58
kyakxiangfu: you could try creating a wrapper script, and call this instead?05:58
xiangfukyak: ok. let me try.05:59
kyakin this case i think this tty warning should disappear05:59
xiangfukyak: very thanks.06:03
kyakxiangfu: np.. i think i will create similar gmenu2x item for ash-cyrillic (will be provided by ben-cyrillic)06:04
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add [ash] and fix the [bash] entry in gmenu2x http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b157df206:07
kyakwolfspraul: another thing to free a little memory - disable unused ttys in /etc/inittab06:21
kyaki think tty3 and tty3 are not needed.. maybe tts is also not needed06:21
kyak*tty3/406:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: (loggers) i would consider data on such a device as ephemeral anyway, particularly considering that people often upgrade their system by wiping out entire partitions06:22
kyakwpwrak: those are not logging to file anyway06:22
kyakthey log somewhere in the memory, can be accessed with "logread"06:23
kyaktotally useless06:23
wpwrakwolfspraul: so there's little point in filling them with log data. sometimes, it can be useful to be able to enable temporary logging, though. e.g., to debug ssh problems. of course, the way dropbear fails usually means that you'll only find out with strace anyway ... :)06:23
wpwrakkyak: (log to memory) ah, that's actually a bit more reasonable. but probably still not worth the effort.06:24
kyakyeah..06:25
kyakxiangfu: what do you think about adding tcl to full_system?06:25
wolfspraulkyak: how can we remove tty3/4/s?06:27
kyakwolfspraul: just comment those line in /etc/inittab06:27
kyak*lines06:27
wolfspraulkyak: except for tcl, are there any other things you have enabled that are not in full_system?06:28
kyakwolfspraul: i don't think so...06:29
bartbeshmm has tk been ported?06:30
kyakhaven't seen it there06:30
kyakwolfspraul: have abook enabled which is also not in full_system06:35
kyak(and MPlayer, but this one is build patented)06:36
wejpwhy do you want to remove the other virtual terminals?06:39
kyakto save memory; they are not used most of the time06:41
wejpbut then you can't do any multi-tasking anymore06:41
wejpi don't think this is a good idea06:42
wejpand it doesn't really save much memory anyway06:42
kyakdo you mean "you can't do three-tasking"? :)06:42
kyakuse screen for that06:42
wejpscreen uses alot more memory than some terminals06:42
wejpand is very slow on such machines06:43
kyakthere are alternatives06:43
kyaktmux, for example06:43
kyakcan you tell me about the use case?06:43
kyakhow do you use those terminals on Ben?06:43
wejpeverytime you want to run multiple applications at the same time06:44
kyakjust give an exmaple06:44
wejplistening to music in the background and editing some files at the same time for example06:44
wolfspraulkyak: wejp btw, along the lines of screen, we now have this quite interesting byobu on the NanoNote06:44
wolfspraulhttps://launchpad.net/byobu06:45
wolfspraulbut it's a screen enhancement, so if screen is slow or needs a lot of memory, this will need even more... anyway some of what they say sounds promising, I think06:45
bartbessomething totally unrelated: every time I start the nn, especially whilst not at home, I feel kind of.. good, booting linux on an embedded device06:45
bartbesit's just a great feeling06:45
bartbesit feels like you're holding a lot of power in your hands06:45
wejpbyobu... interesting06:45
kyakwejp: it's not a problem, cause gmu is not occupying the terminal06:45
bartbeswolfspraul: afaik byobu is mostly a set of config files for screen?06:45
kyakwejp: besides, i don't say to get rid of all terminals06:45
wejpthen edit two files, or have one open for reference while editing the other06:45
wolfspraulbartbes: could be yes, I never got far beyond readon their project homepage. but it sounds cool :-)06:46
kyakwejp: well, my case might be special, i'm living happily without tty3 and tty4. i even use tty2 very rarely06:47
wejpyeah, i guess, but since there are other usecases as well, i think those terminals should just be kept as they are now06:48
wejpit really does not save much memory06:48
wejpa few KB at most06:48
bartbesso seeing as I just realized owrt has mutt, has anyone set it up in a particularly epic fashion? I can't imagine it being easy to use considering you normally lack internet, and it lacking a small pop and/or smtp server (afaik), so what is mutt used for?06:48
bartbesoh I seem to be asking random questions, do tell if I get annoying06:49
kyakwejp: not a few KB. each terminal is running init, it is 1620 KB06:49
wejpkyak, no it isn't06:49
kyakit makes 1620*3 useless KB for me06:49
kyakwejp: run top06:49
wejpthese 1620 KB is shared memory and it is only used ONCE by all applications that are part of busybox06:49
bartbeswow, go busybox!06:50
wejpyep06:50
wejpthat's why openwrt uses busybox06:50
wejpto use as little memory as possible06:50
wolfspraulbartbes: I should try mutt one day, I use it on my notebook. I would think I can use it first of all as a reader of my mail archives. for writing, I would need to think about the workflow, although I'm sure it's possible.06:50
kyakwejp: hm ok06:50
wejpthat's why they all use the same amount of memory06:50
kyakwejp: how can i see RSS?06:51
bartbeswolfspraul: I guess it just needs to have a queue and a script which then mails it all (using sendmail?), if you then hook it up to udev it can all get very coolk06:51
bartbes*-k06:51
kyakbartbes: same as openvpn06:51
kyaki always wondered whe is it in full_system06:51
wejpmh, i think that depends on the top or ps version being used06:52
bartbeswolfspraul: atm however I get an error when I want to send (even though I'm connected to the internet), my guess is a lack of sendmail (or alternative, like exim)06:52
wolfspraulbartbes: which smtp clients are in openwrt and which one should we include in the image?06:52
bartbesI'll go research06:53
wolfspraulcan't mutt speak smtp as well?06:53
kyakbassel: have a look at msmtp06:53
bartbesI believe it normally uses sendmail06:53
kyakbartbes: have a look at msmtp06:53
bartbes(or compatible alternative)06:53
kyakbassel: sorry :)06:53
wolfspraulI use mutt to do some mass emailing once in a while. but never looked deeper into what mutt actually does to get it out.06:53
bartbeskyak: I'll go check out mutt manual then decide what it needs06:53
kyakyou can use whatever MTA you want with mutt06:54
bartbeswolfspraul: but I guess you *can* set it up to use smtp, since I think I do that on my desktop..06:54
kyakand mutt itself is not aware of smtp06:54
bartbesyeah, I guess it's all a matter of how it's set up06:54
kyakit needs MTA for that06:54
bartbeskyak: well, I just checked my muttrc and I directly use smtp06:55
bartbes(with ubuntu package)06:55
kyakcan you show it?06:55
bartbesjust smtp_url06:55
bartbesI'll go read the docs06:55
bartbes"Update: Recent versions (1.5.x) of Mutt has built-in SMTP support."06:56
kyaki'm so out of date :)06:56
bartbesand on the nn I have 1.5.2006:57
bartbesso that should work06:57
bartbesanyway, a sendmail equivalent may be easier, since it requires no setup, and has queueing, I guess06:57
bartbesinteresting06:58
bartbesyou can use ssh to execute sendmail on a remote system06:58
bartbesbtw, what packages are built automatically?07:02
bartbes(and as such added to the repos)07:02
wpwrakwolfspraul: what's the successor of the ya in the ben-ya-... naming scheme again ?07:05
wolfspraulben-ya-mu-guo07:06
wolfspraulbartbes: what do you mean?07:06
wpwrakthanks !07:06
wolfspraulfirst we have config.full_system07:06
wolfspraulthat's like an 'all-inclusive' of apps that work well on the NanoNote. as long as they don't increase boot time, or memory usage, at the moment we are just adding anything there that someone finds useful.07:07
wolfspraulthen we _should_ also build all packages (as separately installable .ipk files), but we haven't done so since April07:08
wolfspraulat least we have a buildhost machine now, so give it another month or two and this should work as well07:08
bartbeskyak: I guess mutt was built without smtp07:08
wolfspraulbartbes: if you have suggestions on what to add, please just list them here and we'll do it. or of course you can edit/commit to config.full_system yourself07:09
wolfsprauldid this answer your question?07:09
bartbesyeah, and then some :P07:09
wolfspraulbartbes: for one, I would love to have great love support on the NN :-) and lots of preinstalled love games...07:10
wolfspraulso if you have pointers, please holler07:10
wolfspraulI saw nlove is already in the latest image, not sure how functional it is right now, or whether there are any games in the image as well.07:11
wolfspraulwe'll get there...07:11
bartbesno games yet07:12
bartbes(in the image)07:12
bartbesanyway, I just sent the first mail via mutt + msmtp07:12
bartbesnow let's see if I receive it07:13
bartbesand then see what happens when I unplug the nn07:13
bartbeshumm, the message was received on the smtp server, but then timed out when trying to forward to gmail smtp servers07:15
bartbes:(07:15
bartbesbut hey, at least it works thus far07:15
bartbesalright, so that works07:16
bartbesand msmtp errors..07:17
wolfspraulyou want to say the NanoNote is already more reliable for email than gmail?07:17
wolfspraul:-)07:17
wolfspraulbut it sounds like we should include msmtp07:18
bartbesonce I figure out how I can get it to queue it'll be fully working07:19
bartbesand even if that isn't the case, that + a default muttrc makes for a working mutt07:19
bartbesI see, there's a msmtpq script, which I guess needs to be included in the package07:25
xiangfukyak: about tcl, it's ok to me. just add it to config.full_system (since it's not auto start when boot :)07:30
wolfspraulwhen I am in gmenu2x, is there a way to close it (exit the process)?07:35
bartbesI think there was..07:35
bartbesI can't find it though07:36
wolfspraulshort of 'kill `pidof gmenu2x`' which is what I do normally07:36
bartbesI guess you could create a 'close' launcher07:36
wpwrakno killall ?07:36
wpwrakbartbes: + to launch, - to kill :)07:37
wolfspraulwpwrak: good idea, forgot07:37
wolfspraulkillall is there...07:37
bartbeswpwrak: ?07:37
wolfspraula 'close' launcher is a nice idea, the only problem is with someone who accidentally closes it and then doesn't know how to return07:38
xiangfuI just add a "ash" and "bash" in gmenu2x.07:40
wolfspraulwhich one is the best/recommended shell?07:40
xiangfuso if we want goto terminal we can use 'ash'07:40
xiangfuthen "CTRL + D" or "exit" will return to gmenu2x07:40
wolfspraulmaybe if we have two icons it adds more confusion than necessary, unless there are good reasons for both07:40
xiangfuwolfspraul: ash07:40
wolfspraulthen I would suggest to not include a 'bash' icon07:41
wolfspraulmy idea was not so much running a shell (that's another nice idea, I usually do ctrl-alt-f1 right now, but more options is good), my idea was to close the gmenu2x process to save memory07:41
wolfspraulbut one by one07:41
wolfspraullaunching a shell from an icon is nice, I like it07:41
wolfspraulxiangfu: is that what you added?07:42
bartbesI just added a launcher which just add prints some text (a thank you for using and then how to start gmenu2x again)07:42
bartbeswhich has the wrapper disabled, so it closes gmenu2x with a quit message07:42
wolfspraulxiangfu: when I run nightsky I get several error messages about missing files, then a segmentation fault07:44
xiangfuwolfspraul: yes, I have add two icon, "ash" and "bash",07:45
xiangfuI think we rename the "ash" to "Terminal",07:45
wolfspraulxiangfu: why do we need two icons? when would someone choose bash over ash?07:45
xiangfuwolfspraul: it's just one option for users.07:47
bartbesI made a vid of my launcher07:47
bartbestime to convert it to ogv07:47
xiangfuif we don't add the 'bash' , then do you think we should remove it from full_system?07:47
xiangfuwolfspraul: I will look into the nightsky later07:48
bartbeswolfspraul: http://bartbes.ath.cx/close_launcher.ogv07:51
xiangfubartbes: now we have add the "gmenu2x" to inittab. so when we clock the "Terminal" , it will exit the gmenu2x07:53
bartbeswait, what?07:54
xiangfubartbes: s/clock/click/07:54
bartbesthat close launcher actually just closes gmenu2x, it doesn't start a new shell07:54
bartbes:O07:55
xiangfubartbes: yes.07:55
bartbesI know why my build of msmtp failed07:55
bartbesmy / partition is full07:56
bartbes:(07:56
wolfspraulxiangfu: I don't think those 2 things are related07:57
wolfspraulone question is whether we add an icon for 'bash' in the launcher07:57
wolfspraulthe other question is whether we add bash into the image07:57
wolfspraulI'm sure there are good reasons why to add it to the image, at least it's easier to imagine those.07:57
wolfspraulfor I'm not so sure about the value of having 2 icons in the launcher, both launching a shell07:58
wolfspraulI think we are doing a better service by picking the better one of the two only, at that place.07:58
xiangfuwolfspraul: ok, now I understand. let's just remove hte 'bash' icon in gmenu2x.07:58
wolfspraulxiangfu: well, back to my question. what would be the reason that someone would choose bash over ash at that point (in the launcher)?07:59
wolfspraulI understand if a script needs bash-specific features, OK it refers to bash and bash needs to be there to run the script07:59
wolfspraulbut for the 'manual' shell, I think we should pick what we believe is the most appropriate on the NanoNote, and only have an icon for that?08:00
wolfspraulhow about fbterm?08:00
wpwrakfor an interactive shell, i guess you'd want the "nicest". not sure how friendly ash is as an interactive shell.08:01
wolfspraulsure then let's do that. I'm just saying two icons, one for 'bash' and one for 'ash' is asking for trouble :-)08:02
wolfspraulI know it...08:02
wolfspraulnext we have a third icon for zsh08:03
wolfsprauland so on08:03
bartbesfbterm makes more sense as a launcher in gmenu2x08:03
wpwraktoo much of a choice is a bad thing :)08:03
wpwraktcsh !08:03
wolfspraulbartbes: I think the problem with fbterm is that the nice small NanoNote fonts don't work08:04
wolfspraulI just started fbterm manually and it's ugly :-)08:04
bartbesI would say it would be capable of going smaller08:04
wolfspraulI guess I'm used to those nice polished fonts now.08:04
wolfsprauloh, and we should have an easy way to cycle through console fonts as well08:05
wolfspraulthere is some command line that does it, but man it's long...08:05
xiangfuI am not thinking of the 'user experiment', I just think add one option to users. so I am not sure about this.08:05
bartbesyou mean the fonts I think I don't have?08:05
bartbesso when is the first *stable* release going to be?08:05
wolfspraulmaybe once we have this more general keymapper daemon (triggerhappy), we can have some nice key mappings to cycle through console fonts?08:05
bartbesbecause I'm still running 2010-06-1508:05
bartbes(with some updated packages)08:06
wolfspraulthat's a good image, maybe we have a worthy successor soon...08:06
wolfspraulnot sure about 'stable', we'll get there08:06
wolfspraulxiangfu: so basically you are saying 'ash' is the better shell for manual use, wpwrak says 'bash'08:07
wolfspraulI don't want to blow this discussion out of proportion, maybe add 2 icons for now, we can trim later :-)08:07
xiangfu'ash' is the default shell in openwrt. and it's busybox.08:07
wolfspraulthat's good, saves memory08:08
wolfspraulso my vote is: for now only 1 icon, for ash08:08
xiangfu'bash' is separate.08:08
xiangfuwolfspraul: my vote. add one section in gmenu2x. name "Terminal", we list "ash(default)" "bash" "fbterm" "jfbterm" "nanoterm" :)08:10
xiangfuwe add all terminal stuff in "Terminal" section.08:10
wolfspraulhe08:11
wolfspraulFINE! :-)08:11
wolfspraulI like the (default) idea, if it's visible...08:11
wolfspraulthat achieves 80% of what I had in mind...08:11
xiangfuBTW, I already add "Games" section, list all games.08:13
wolfspraulyes I saw it, nice08:13
wolfspraulonce we can stabilize all this a little, I hope we can add some nice little scripts to bring out the functionality of some of the console apps we have08:14
wolfspraulfor example sox08:14
wolfspraulif I just run 'sox' in the console, that's outright scary08:14
wolfspraullooks like 5 pages of options are scrolling by08:14
wolfspraulso maybe one day we can have a neat little script that just starts recording, saves it in a meaningful place with a meaningful name, and stops upon whatever action08:15
xiangfuthere are so many apps  like 'sox'08:15
wolfspraulthose recordings could then be listed and listened to in gmu maybe? well something like that...08:16
wolfspraulyes we need more scripts to bring out easy default functionality of those apps, and link them into the launcher08:16
wolfspraulneeds a bit more time...08:16
xiangfuhow about a script list all those apps08:16
xiangfulike:08:16
xiangfuTerminal Applications in NanoNOte:08:17
xiangfusox -- sound08:17
xiangfuaplay -- play wav08:17
xiangfuarecode -- recode wav08:17
xiangfu...08:17
wolfspraulyou can see a list with opkg list_installed already, not sure what you suggest08:18
xiangfumy idea is let users know there are some command he can try in terminal.08:18
wolfspraulopkg list_installed08:18
xiangfuoh. yes.08:18
wolfspraulplus we need a wiki page to document them, for several reasons (also to start specifying test steps)08:19
wpwrak(shell choice) i you have bash on your system, you'll almost certainly want bash. it's much nicer as an interactive shell. ash suffers the usual problems of busybox-ish things, with every once in a while something not working the way you expect. if you've chosen not to install bash on your system, then you should of course launch ash.08:19
wpwrak(shell choice) so maybe just call is "shell" and pick the best that's available08:19
wolfsprauland then we may need little 'script apps' to connect some of that stuff into the launcher, if a direct invocation is not enough (those are a good start for now)08:19
bartbesre recording, you could take a look at that new recording thing jlime has08:28
kristianpaulbartbes: awesome thing !08:34
kristianpaulrafa: :)08:34
bartbescan anyone tell me why I can barely control the output volume?08:38
bartbesif I set output volume to 0 in alsamixer it's still extremely loud08:38
wolfspraulchinese electrical design?08:42
wolfspraul:-)08:42
wolfspraulmaybe we need a software volume control, is that possible?08:42
bartbeswho knows enough about the hardware to know that?08:43
viricwolfspraul: alsa has something called "softvol", that many people use in the nanonote, I think08:45
viric(due to what I think are hardware problems in that volume)08:45
bartbesoh right, I was working on msmtp..08:46
wolfspraulbartbes: larsc does, but he repeatedly said on this channel things along the lines of "but i can tell you for sure that the hw only has 4 volume levels ranging from loud to very loud"08:46
wolfspraulviric: not a hardware problem, typical 'default' volume settings in China08:46
virica loud coutry then08:47
wolfspraulyes it's crazy. with all culture respects, it's nuts.08:47
wolfspraulpeople are yelling and shouting everywhere.08:47
bartbesin that case we need global volume lowering08:48
wolfspraulthey are selling toys here, they must be illegal in the US or Europe if only for sound volume. I mean those things are so crazy loud.08:48
viricIt looks like here, immigration, use to go with loud music in speakers of mobile phones and alike, that give even a sound quality close to the 19th century08:48
wolfspraulnot that the speakers are any good, the sound quality is also horrible. but I could show you a toy, with sound from say 1-7, and we would probably both agree only 1 is BEARABLE in an otherwise quiet room.08:48
viricAnd I'm sure not only immigration, and not all of the imimgration. But it's a phenomena I see mostly on them.08:48
wolfspraul2 and 3 remind me more of a rock concert or such08:49
bartbesviric: so, softvol, any more information?08:49
wolfsprauland for everything above that I am seriously questioning the sanity of anyone letting a child play with this thing...08:49
viricbartbes: it's usual alsa configuration. Nothing special of the nanonote.08:49
bartbesoh now I suddenly know..08:49
viricwolfspraul: well, western sanity on education is questionable maybe not in loudness, but in many other aspects :)08:49
wolfspraulfine but if I would demonstate those toys to you you would know what I mean :-)08:50
bartbeswolfspraul: btw, I checked and the scripts are there, they simply aren't installed08:50
viric:)08:50
kristianpaulwolfspraul: i tought volume control was a menu in gmenu2x08:50
bartbesso who has commit access to upstream packages?08:50
wolfsprauland btw, for phones, the #1 features many people care about is how loud the ringtone can be08:50
kristianpaul*a working menu*08:50
wolfspraulyou can imagine them trying it out in a super noisy super crowded market, and you get the idea08:50
bartbeswolfspraul: you don't happen to have access to the upstream 'packages' repo?08:51
wolfspraulno I don't, but you can send a patch to the qi list or openwrt-devel list right away. or xiangfu can do it for you.08:51
wolfsprauldepends on whether your improvement is generic enough to be added there, or we keep it on the qi server?08:52
bartbesit's just installing some scripts which are pretty.. useful08:52
wolfspraulsure let's install them. so where are they and how can they be added?08:53
bartbesit's not like they're a separate download, they need no compile-time option08:53
bartbesthey just need to be copied08:53
kyakxiangfu: there is no need to remove "bash" icon; gmenu2x won't display it if the binary is not available08:53
wolfspraulpart of which package is this?08:53
wolfspraullet's just make a patch, send to openwrt-devel. if they don't like it we can always make a alsa-full package or so that we keep in openwrt-packages on the qi server08:54
bartbesI was talking about queueing in msmtp08:54
kyakwolfspraul: about the nightsky, you need to have /root/.nightsky.yml (see example in /usr/share/nightsky/)08:56
wolfspraulbartbes: oh I see. well it all starts with a patch. either someone likes it for upstream inclusion, or we keep it on the qi side.08:58
kyakwolfspraul: there is another thing is have different in my build.. a bunch of rc files in $HOME - .mplayer, .vimrc, .tclshrc, .nightsky.yml08:59
kyaki recreate them on every build08:59
wolfspraulhow do you recreate them?09:01
kyakafter reflash, i boot and run a script09:02
kyakevery time i change soemthing in the system, i reflect it in that script09:02
kyakthen i can reflash, run this script - and i'm restored09:02
kyakall my settings are safe09:02
wolfspraulhmm, on our side I guess we would need to look at those config options one by one and then at what the best way is to set them as default09:03
wolfspraulsome ideas would be ugly, i.e. probably not wanted. like including /root/.nightsky.yml in the nightsky .ipk09:04
bartbesyay, a working queue!09:04
bartbeswolfspraul: alright, I guess I can create a package msmtp-mutt or similar, which just installs those queue scripts + a conf for mutt09:04
wolfspraulwe could include them in the data/ rootfs section I guess, that would be a quick (if also ugly) bandaid09:04
bartbesbut it gets ugly09:05
bartbes:(09:05
wolfspraulsure go ahead, then it's saved at least09:05
wolfsprauland we can see how/whether any of this should go upstream, or whether there is a cleaner way09:05
wolfspraulfirst the hack, then the cleanup :-)09:05
bartbesgood09:05
bartbesthe hack I can do :P09:05
bartbesI'll make the version the number of msmtp, because that would be the version of the scripts09:06
kyakwolfspraul: i was thinking about including some of those configs.. maybe not with ipk, but from data/qi_lb60/files/.. but it might be that the package is not really installed09:09
kyakso the config is not really necessary09:09
bartbeshow do I make it depend on *either* msmtp or msmtp-nossl?09:11
bartbes(or does that happen automatically when I specify the generic name, and no variant?)09:12
wolfspraulkyak: sure but when in doubt, pragmatism trumps, no?09:16
wolfspraulso those files are very small, and we know we have them in config.full_system09:16
wolfsprauleven if people build their own rootfs, ok, they have a few small files they don't need. so what. I am sure there are many other things in the rootfs yet that could be optimized if we would identify them.09:17
wolfspraulbottom line: given that these files are really useful once the apps are installed, I think it's perfectly fine to add them to data/files for now, as a quick first solution.09:18
wolfspraulbartbes: don't know about the dependencies, maybe xiangfu knows?09:18
bartbesI'll just check in the menuconfig09:20
wolfspraulkyak: so how do you like the idea of committing your configs to data/qi_lb60/files ?09:31
kyakwolfspraul: will do!09:43
wolfspraulkyak: oh. great!09:51
qi-bot[commit] kyak: added tcl to full_system http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e5ad3bc09:57
qi-bot[commit] kyak: added some config files and enabled busybox stty http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/37dc34409:57
kyakwolfspraul: thank you for allowing to do things that might be doubtfull :) this really helps bring the default image to my needs, and i can only hope that my needs are not so diferent from other people's needs after all09:59
bartbes:@09:59
bartbesI fail to get the scripts to be packaged09:59
kristianpauljust me http://paste.debian.net/99803/ ?09:59
bartbesugh, the upstream patch might be a lot easier09:59
kyakkristianpaul: it tries to download pregenerated locales, which it shouldn't10:01
kyakkristianpaul: try to make clean, then delete build_dir and staging_dir, let's see it it happens again10:01
kristianpaulhmm10:01
kristianpaulok10:01
kyakbut ok, please hold one second... i'll double check10:02
kristianpaulkyak: are you runing make oldconfig or make config then just esc and save?10:03
kristianpaulafter copying the corresponding full or minmial config of course10:04
qi-bot[commit] kyak: make sure uClibc won't attempt to get pregenerated locales. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/36a96a210:04
kyakkristianpaul: now should be 100% ok10:05
kyakkristianpaul: i'm runnin yes "" | make oldconfig > /dev/null10:05
kyakbut this is a uClibc config option, it's not relevant10:05
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add wallpaper by JaneAndreas, set it default http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/2c27de310:06
kyaki thought it is not necessary to force it, because it wouldn't download locales by default.. but it seems that in some cases it still tries to do that10:06
kyakkristianpaul: you still need to clean your build root10:06
kyakand to git pull of course10:07
kristianpaulsure10:07
kristianpaulcompiling now10:07
kristianpaulbuild root= ?10:08
kristianpaulbin flder?10:08
kyakby "buildroot" i mean openwrt-xburst directory :)10:08
kyakcleaning it is make clean and removing build_dir and staging_dir10:09
kyakthis will start everything from scratch10:09
kristianpaulsure10:10
kristianpaulscratch include download tons of software again?10:11
kyakdownloaded things get in dl/ dir10:11
kyakno need to delete that10:11
bartbeswolfspraul: so where should I put this diff (and how should I create it?)10:11
kyakmake clean won't delete it either10:11
kyakkristianpaul: when you pass the uClibc prepare stage, would you be so kind to show "grep LOCALE build_dir/toolchain-mipsel_gcc-4.3.3+cs_uClibc-0.9.30.1/uClibc/.config"?10:12
kristianpaulkyak: sure10:15
kristianpaulbut how i know i pass it?10:15
kyakyou'll see the message from make10:15
kristianpaulok but i'm not follwing all time10:16
kyaklike make[3] toolchain/uClibc/prepare10:16
kristianpaulk10:16
kyakmake[3] -C toolchain/uClibc prepare10:16
kyakthis one to be exact10:16
wolfspraulbartbes: how to create the diff? well you must have done something, first thing just document that?10:19
wolfspraulcan tell you where to put it after I know what it is :-)10:19
bartbesI mean, I edited the msmtp Makefile10:19
bartbesbut in what format do the openwrt guys like their diffs?10:19
bartbesurandom__: btw, haven't spoken to you in a while, have you seen what has happened to nlove lately?10:20
wolfspraulfirst guess would be unified diff, how big is the diff anyway?10:20
bartbes3 lines added + 1 line modified (release number)10:20
bartbesso very small ;)10:20
kristianpaulkyak: http://paste.debian.net/99806/10:24
kyakkristianpaul: when it passes the uCLibc prepare stage10:24
kyakthis file will appear10:25
kristianpaulah so not yet10:25
kristianpaul:)10:25
kyakand you don't necessarily have to stop the build process, in case you've stopped it :)10:25
kristianpauli just have one and less than 1gn in ram  core my machine is slow10:25
kristianpaulno i dont10:26
wolfspraulbartbes: well just email/upload/paste it somewhere, then we go from there...10:26
bartbeshmm but where10:26
kyakkristianpaul: i just discovered i can speak perfect Spanish ;)10:27
kyakNo existe el fichero o el directorio10:27
kristianpaulNo such file or directory10:28
wolfspraulbartbes: pastebin?10:28
wolfspraulif it's as short as you say it is, even our conversation lines about it here in the chat are longer...10:29
wolfspraul:-)10:29
bartbestrue10:29
urandom__bartbes nah was busy with other stuff (learning languages) , so what happened?10:30
bartbesmostly music10:31
urandom__ah10:31
urandom__so where can i find the latest versions of nlove?10:32
rafawolfspraul: I read the mirko mail.. he wrote: /etc/banner .. added by Y. I would suggest no to add many files under /etc.. so system is a little standar.. and great if it follows the Linux FHS (Filesystem Hierarchy Standard) or something like that. Adding files under /etc does the system odd for every new user.10:32
bartbesurandom__: it has been committed, but an ipk..10:33
bartbesI guess I can put one up10:33
rafawolfspraul: BTW, I added a lot of crap under /etc on jlime.. but it was a really hobboy work.. I did not do it thinking10:33
kristianpaulkyak: it is fun, it is asking me again10:33
kristianpaulSupport glibc's "'" flag for allowing locale-specific digit grouping (UCLIBC_HAS_GLIBC_DIGIT_GROUPING) [N/y/?] (NEW)10:33
rafawolfspraul: that it would be great for future.. My10:33
wolfspraulrafa: agreed, if it were just me I wouldn't add that banner at all but if it makes others feel good, why not...10:34
rafawolfspraul: idea was just to test different ideas.. But for a development thing /etc should be cleam10:34
kristianpaulkyak: http://paste.debian.net/99809/10:35
bartbeswolfspraul: http://pastebin.com/UAhbVBJL10:35
kristianpaulkyak: GREP http://paste.debian.net/99810/10:35
wolfspraulbartbes: cool. I check it tomorrow, calling it a day now... n810:35
bartbesnight wolfspraul10:36
kyakkristianpaul: when it is asking you that?10:36
kristianpaulkyak: few minutes ago then got  the error10:37
kyakare you building verbosely?10:37
kristianpaulyup10:37
kyakok, let me force disable this option as well.. i wonder why it doesn't ask me that question10:38
kristianpaulhmm10:38
kristianpaulyou need my .config* files may be to check?10:38
qi-bot[commit] kyak: 'N' to UCLIBC_HAS_GLIBC_DIGIT_GROUPING http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/8915de310:40
kyakkristianpaul: no..10:40
kyaknot yet :)10:40
kristianpaulkyak: are you compiling with full config?10:40
kyaksure10:40
kyaki did test with full_config10:40
kyakplease try again now..10:40
bartbesurandom__: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/440010/nlove/nlove_r464-1_xburst.ipk10:41
kyakkristianpaul: this will not ask you anything.. however, i think your next error might be related to something else -\10:41
kyaksetlocale(LC_CTYPE,"en_US.UTF-8") failed!10:42
kyaki don't like it...10:42
kyakkristianpaul: what is your build host?10:42
urandom__bartbes got it, thanks10:42
kristianpaulkyak: my home computer10:43
kristianpauli was using fidelio but is x86_64 i need x86 sdk10:43
kyakwhat is it? x86, x64? what OS?10:43
kristianpauldebian squeeze x8610:43
kyakwell ok.. almost my config10:44
kyakx86 and linux10:44
kyaklet's see if this error goes away now, ok?10:44
kristianpaulsure10:44
kristianpaulcompiling now10:45
kyakkristianpaul: have to go now.. hope it'll work well for you. If not, we will have to investigate.. if you need to finish your build, then blame me and check out older version of toolchain/uClibc/config-0.9.30.1/mipsel file10:51
kristianpaulkyak: ok10:52
kristianpaulthanks !10:52
kristianpaulwait !10:52
kyakya10:52
kristianpaulkyak: http://paste.debian.net/99812/10:52
kristianpaul:(10:52
kristianpaulsame error10:52
kristianpaulthis time dint asked10:52
kristianpaulwell10:54
kristianpaulwe nca chekc that later10:54
kristianpaulmay be is my system10:54
kristianpaulautotools is broken not sure if is realted with openwty build process.10:54
kyakkristianpaul: git checkout b404fd53d2e17380994f7f1d8a9496aacea5e642 toolchain/uClibc/config-0.9.30.1/mipsel10:55
kyakfor now.10:56
kristianpaulok10:56
kyaki'l have a look later10:56
kristianpaulsure10:56
kyak(but you should try to fix your host build system, because in this case locales are generated by your build host)10:57
kyaki.e. ./gen_wc8bit is your host binary10:57
kyakand it is build by your host compiler10:57
kristianpaulhmm ok10:57
kristianpauli'll reinstall debian now10:57
kyakok, keep in touch!10:58
kristianpaulchai10:58
kristianpaulchao*10:58
qi-bot[commit] kyak: some changes to gmenu2x icons http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ad732f613:46
qi-bot[commit] kyak: ben-cyrillic: add gmenu2x item (ash-rus) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e000a1913:54
qi-bot[commit] kyak: make tetris of bsd-games more fittable to screen http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/000fba514:19
rafalarsc: wpwrak : technically.. is there some nice way to have on boot moment a chroot or similar before init starts?.. (or being made by init). Wolfgang asked me some way to have dual boot and he suggested new layout for partition like :  4 mb u-boot, 8 mb kernel1, 8mb kernel2, 512mb rootfs1, 512mb rootfs2, rest is16:35
rafa                    (ubi-formatted?) data partition?16:35
rafalarsc: wpwrak : that is a terrible change for me  :).. I would like (ideally): uboot, just one kernel (yes, it is not so easy when openwrt and OE are not so identical).16:36
rafalarsc: wpwrak : one rootfs and there something like two folders : /openwrt-qi /jlime, then when kernel mounts rootfs init should change the root / to /openwrt-qi or /jlime16:37
rafalarsc: wpwrak : and another /data partition. With this layout you would keep just one partition for rootfs and another for /data.. If another distro appears and all is okey to have there.. it should be installed under some new dir on rootfs partition. For example rootfs would be :16:38
rafa- /qi-openwrt16:38
rafa- /jlime16:38
rafa- /debian16:38
rafa(if debian is the new one)16:39
rafakernel mounts rootfs and should change the dir of root / (or init would do) before to continue booting16:39
wpwrak(chroot) sure. that's what initrd/iniramfs is all about :)16:39
wpwrak(tons of partitions) that idea scares me too :)16:39
rafawpwrak: I would like to think some nice way to have avoid many partitions and change that from time to time :)16:40
rafato have avoid = to avoid16:40
rafawpwrak: (chroot, initrd/initramfs).. cool, we should check how to manage that (no sure if uboot is happy with big kernels or if it currently can read initrd from outside of kernel)16:43
wpwrak(shared /) hmm, that could get tricky if distributions make assumptions about the nature of /. e.g., that it corresponds to a device. not sure if this is an issue, though.16:44
wpwrakanother problem you'll have it rootfs size. one thing you could do to reduce it is hard-link identical files ;-)16:45
wpwraklike this: iterate over all files. for each file, compute the md5sum. check in an associative array if it's already there. if not, store it, along with the path. if yes, delete the current file and hardlink it to the one previously found.16:46
wpwrakmay need a bit of adjusting to skip variable directories, e.g., /var and /etc16:46
wpwrak(uboot limitations) uboot should die anyway :)16:47
rafa(distributions making assumptions): well, if those are running under some chrooted dir these should not detect that right? whatever they do on /* would be made on their /distribution/* folder if I understand it okey16:47
wpwrak(one kernel for everyone) i like the idea. not sure about the practical implications, though.16:48
wpwrak(chroot) yes, but they could try to find out what the underlying device is and do something stupid with the information. again, not sure if this happens. i've never considered that case. you may be the first to find out ;-)16:49
wpwrak(never) these mechanisms were introduced over ten years ago. do you know my paper on booting linux ? http://www.almesberger.net/cv/papers/ols2k-9.pdf16:50
rafapaper: cool, let me see. Maybe I checked some time ago (when reading your web site)16:51
wpwrakit explains some of the background. some of the stuff is obsolete now, e.g., the change_root mechanism. union mounts never happened. and kexec came a bit later, so it's not mmentioned.16:52
wpwrakalso, initrd is now initramfs. but by and large, the architecture is still the same. just that what was brand new back then is now the way it's always been ;-)16:53
rafawpwrak: I built a clean toolchain from OE "external toolchain" recipes, which are the proper ones to do that. No idea if it works .. let me test17:16
wpwrakrafa: my greedy little hands are shaking :)17:17
rafawpwrak: I will upload so you can test as well :) .. it built two files :17:19
rafajlime-2010.1-2010.1-mipsel-linux-toolchain-extras.tar.bz2  jlime-2010.1-2010.1-mipsel-linux-toolchain.tar.bz217:19
wpwrakextras is things like sdl, gtk, ... ?17:20
rafawpwrak: let me tar tv..17:20
rafawpwrak: no.. it has a lot of eglibc locale files and similar stuff very basic it seems17:23
rafawpwrak: but well, adding libsd and libsdl-dev ipk on toolchain should not be hard I guess17:23
rafawpwrak: I mean, if we need extra libs on toolchain we can download the ipks files and unpackage them on toolchain installation17:24
wpwrakis there a tool to unpack an ipkg on the host ?17:25
wpwrak(i.e., an opkg adapted for this purpose. i know we had one at openmoko, but i don't know what they had to change there)17:25
rafadpkg from ubuntu/debian can unpack.. but it just extract the files.. there is a opkg-cl17:26
rafawhich I do not know well17:26
rafawpwrak: I often add some libs downloading the ipk files and running something like "dpkg -x package.ipkg /toolchain/rootfs/dir/"17:28
wpwrakah, nice. that's easy :)17:30
rafawpwrak: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/jlime/toolchains/17:35
rafawpwrak: I do not know yet how to use them :D17:35
rafa(yet)17:36
rafawpwrak: there is a file : ./usr/local/jlime-2010.1/mipsel/environment-setup which has an alias "opkg" and other stuff.. maybe that alias is useful to add packages to the toolchain17:40
wpwraklet's see ...17:58
wpwrakby the way, why 2 x 2010.1 ?17:58
rafawpwrak: no idea.. OE adds those .. when kristoffer was pushing jlime stuff on OE (at the beggining of this year).. he added that IIRC (2010.1)17:59
wpwrakokay. random OE weirdness then :)18:00
rafawpwrak: surely there is a meaning.. which I do not know of course18:00
rafawpwrak: the openmoko toolchain wiki page explains how to use that ./usr/local/jlime-2010.1/mipsel/environment-setup file to add new libraries to the toolchain18:14
rafawpwrak: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain -> "Installing new libraries"18:15
wpwrakoh. that thingy comes from OE directly. i always thought it was an OM-local hack18:21
wpwrakhello.c compiles :-)18:22
rafawpwrak: yes, it seems that it comes from OE. That file which OE put into toolchain (./usr/local/jlime-2010.1/mipsel/environment-setup) set an opkg alias.. so it should be the proper way to add libs surely.18:22
rafawpwrak: hello.c compiles.. ah.. great!..18:23
rafawpwrak: can you show me a basic Makefile for it?18:23
wpwrakyou mean like this ? http://pastebin.ca/199166818:24
wpwrakben-wpan tools also compile. but that's still with SDL disabled. now, when I turn it on ...18:25
wpwrakatrf-txrx also compiles, except for the -lSDL. very good so far. now, opkg ...18:27
wpwrakpity, opkg-target update  doesn't work. that would have been too easy :)18:28
rafawpwrak: he.. which is the error?18:30
wpwrakhttp://pastebin.ca/199167318:30
rafawpwrak: easy.. there is not Packages.gz18:31
wpwrakwhere do i find a compatible libsdl-dev ?18:31
rafawpwrak: opkg on nn uses just the Package file.. no Packages.gz.. let me upload the Packages.gz and you can re try18:31
rafawpwrak: and I will give you the packages of sdl as well :18:32
rafalibs : http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/jlime/repository/ipk/mipsel/libsdl-1.2-0_1.2.14-r3_mipsel.ipk18:33
wpwrakexcellent customer service ! ;-)18:33
rafaheaders : http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/jlime/repository/ipk/mipsel/libsdl-1.2-dev_1.2.14-r3_mipsel.ipk18:33
rafayou are luck that customer service know the libsdl packages :D18:33
wpwraknow i still have to resolve the dependencies ...18:34
rafawpwrak: but we should try the opkg-update and friends.. I will try to upload the Packages.gz18:34
rafawpwrak: dependencies for libsdl?.. it should not have much18:34
wpwraklibsdl (without -dev), libts, .. let's see what else ...18:35
wpwraktslib-conf. that's it18:36
wpwrakcomplains about recommendation and tells me it's not running preinst/postinst scripts. let's see what happens now18:37
rafayes.. libsdl needs libts I see18:37
wpwrakgrmbl. sdl-config says -L/usr/lib :-(18:38
rafa:( we need to use opkg surely.. preinst/postint scripts..18:39
wpwrakgetting better. now just SDL_gfx is missing. searching ...18:39
rafayou are fast :)18:39
wpwraksuccessfully compiled ! :)18:40
wpwraknow i need to install jlime to actually run it ...18:41
rafawpwrak: if you have a SD that is the easy way18:42
wpwrakhm,, there must be some uSD cards around here ...18:43
wpwrakwell, i'll attack that problem tomorrow. still have to migrate my RF lab to a room where there's no bag of electrolytes wandering around, distorting the measurements.18:46
rafacool, I should write a bit explaining why those file are under downloads.qi and how to use them :)18:48
rafawpwrak: (makefile).. ah.. you just define CC.. great18:49
rafa(for hello)18:50
kristianpaulwpwrak: i have done some first SDL test with not ptoblem using jlime on the Ben18:50
wpwrakit would be great if  opkg-target update  worked. with that, almost everything would be automatic18:50
rafawpwrak: I will upload the missing Packages.gz so we can use opkg-target18:50
kristianpaulgfx?18:51
wpwrakrafa: shouldn't opkg-target know where it can download Packages.gz ?18:51
kristianpaulah you're cross compiling i see18:51
kristianpauls/re/were18:51
rafawpwrak: yes.. that is explained on openmoko toolchain page as well I would say. But anyway, if we set the proper links for opkg-target it will not find the Packages.gz yet18:52
wpwrakkristianpaul: i basically did this: http://pastebin.ca/199169818:52
wpwrakrafa: ah, i see. well, it's pretty close to perfection already :)18:53
kristianpaulhe i'm using jlime just to avoid cross ompile and i wonder what you want with jlime then ;-)18:54
wpwrakkristianpaul: so you're compiling directly on the ben/sie ?18:55
kristianpaulyes :D18:55
wpwrakoh dear :)18:55
rafakristianpaul: well, we uploaded a new jlime toolchain on downloads.qi.. and it was built properly from OE (the previous one, on jlime.com, is old and it was just a tar.gz from the toolchain that OE built to build the rest of stuff, which is not the proper one to use)18:55
kristianpaulbasically i like jlime because that18:55
kristianpauljej18:55
kristianpaulwpwrak: sure not linux ;-)18:56
kristianpaulrafa: you me i can chroot that and feel like if i we're in jlime?18:56
wpwraki've heard of the following rather interesting approach: install a MIPS environment on the host. then set up qemu such that it gets invoked when you're trying to run a MIPS binary. (apparently, there's some way to accomplish this. i never tried, though)18:56
rafakristianpaul: so you just like jlime because we are a sex gcc thing? :(18:57
rafakristianpaul: ;)18:57
wpwraknow, in order to speed up compilation, replace the MIPS toolchain with a native cross-toolchain.18:57
kristianpaulrafa: i like the X too :)18:57
kristianpauland bunch of sofware18:57
kristianpauleven the one i dont know exists yet18:57
rafakristianpaul: well.. the toolchain just bring a proper env to crosscompile stuff.. no chroot I would say. But I could be wrong18:57
kristianpaulrafa: just kidding (gcc) sure i like all your hard work around GUI and support in news apps :)18:58
rafawpwrak: you would have to see what OE tries to do when you want to build the emacs* packages using OE.. and you would like to leave the IT world :P18:59
kristianpaulhuh?18:59
wpwrakrafa: what does it do ? :)19:00
rafakristianpaul: all is okey.. I was just kidding as well.. My stuff is just a bunch of ides from users and I tried to put that on some rootfs from OE ;)19:00
kristianpaul:)19:00
kristianpaulah i tought wpwrak had already installed Jlime in their nanonote!19:01
Action: kristianpaul hope he will do19:02
rafawpwrak: first, I do not exactly what it tries to do .. :D .. but ..it tried to use many GBs of disk space.. so I was checking WTF was doing.. Apparently.. it was trying to create a rootfs thing to use with qemu to build emacs.. and becuse the OE had already around 2GB of ipkg packages, it tried to put all of them under that rootfs being created19:02
rafaI do not= I do not know19:03
rafawpwrak: it used around 100GB or more to say finally that he could not build emacs19:04
rafawpwrak: and it also did a lot more garbage in the middle19:04
wpwrakrafa: sweet. did it also hack into the arecibo telescope and send a message back to its alien masters ?19:05
kristianpaul100Gb !! O_o19:05
rafakristianpaul: yes.. something was not working well surely :D.. some random temp or who knows19:06
kristianpaulrafa: btw is llvm in OE repo?19:07
wpwrakmaybe it's time to rename it then. EMACS was for Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping.19:08
wpwrak(that was in an innocent age when 8 MB was considered a lot of RAM)19:08
rafawpwrak: (message for its alien mastesr) :D .. maybe it did and I did not realized19:12
kristianpauljajaja19:14
kristianpauli wonder if he dint realize nothing since began the porting19:15
rafakristianpaul: I see the recipes to build llvm and llvm2.. but I do not see the packages on repo.. maybe those did not build19:19
rafakristianpaul: I can check the logs19:19
qi-bot[commit] Mirko Vogt: remove version string from /etc/banner - include it from /etc/VERSION instead to avoid unneeded redundancy http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/8ae840f21:08
qi-bot[commit] Mirko Vogt: Export NanoNote specific global settings affecting QT4 applications. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3c816c421:08
qi-bot[commit] Mirko Vogt: remove version string from /etc/banner - include it from /etc/VERSION instead to avoid unneeded redundancy http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ced877321:09
qi-bot[commit] Mirko Vogt: Export NanoNote specific global settings affecting QT4 applications. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/6815dd821:09
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add terminal section http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/bcfe91e21:37
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: keep cleanup the /etc/banner http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/fa1e85f21:37
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [gmenu2x] update http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/7307bb121:37
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: merged xbboot.README into config.xbboot http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3f32dab23:16
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/07b6dba23:16
wolfspraulstrange, don't know where the second 'merge branch master' commit comes from...23:17
--- Mon Nov 15 201000:00

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