#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2010-10-21

qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: override dh_auto_clean, use make spotless instread http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/19ffb4d00:31
wolfspraulwpwrak: in the PDF you posted earlier, I like the 'plot to go' terminology00:39
wolfspraulI think 'plot to go' can equally be applied to the pcb and smt manufacturing steps00:40
wolfspraulso in other words it should be possible to automatically generate (plot) from KiCad all files necessary to use for PCB and SMT manufacturing steps00:40
wolfspraulplot to go00:40
wolfspraulpretty cool term I think00:41
wpwrakheh, you read it in more detail than i did :)00:42
wolfspraulkristianpaul: the visitors chart on the qi homepage is back01:09
wolfspraulthis time as a PNG, so it requires no more flash01:10
wolfspraulit's not properly cached on the server yet, so load may be bad (I will fix this sometime later)01:10
wolfspraulalso, it shows the most conservative number now, unique visitors01:10
wolfsprauleven for those numbers I suspect a lot of robots and bot activity, but anyway I only want to display the most conservative numbers, not inflated stuff01:11
wpwrakwolfspraul: if you're looking for schematics to track, here's a small one: project f32xbase, c2ben/c2ben.sch02:09
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: c2ben/c2ben.brd: changed track width from 8 to 10 mil http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/66a929a02:11
wolfspraulwpwrak: in eda-tools/boom/boom-config.in, usage() is not called if you pass no parameters at all02:12
wpwrakheh, you ask for nothing thus you get nothing ;-)02:16
wolfspraulnot a good idea02:18
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: boom/boom-config.in: complain if invoked without argument (reported by Wolfgang http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/8bf21d802:21
wpwraknow it's a tad more user-friendly02:21
wolfspraulthanks for the heads up, I added c2ben to the automatically tracked schematics02:24
wpwrakthanks !02:25
wpwrakit's a slightly simplified version of your "street job". a passive board for in-circuit programming of c8051f32x MCUs. (as used in idbg, atusb, and cntr)02:27
wolfspraulone of the things often overlooked is how small runs and large runs go hand in hand02:30
wpwrakwell, two boards - one that goes into the uSD slot and the other that has the header. with a few cm of cable in between to avoid having a long rigid lever02:31
wolfspraulas you know, any attempt to pull off a large run successfully requires supporting 'stuff', fixtures, testing boards, etc.02:31
wpwrakyes, yes .. :)02:31
wolfspraulif you have no way of creating those efficiently, that is both quick and cheap, you will never get to a successful large run either02:31
wolfspraulwell, I don't write it for you, but for our logged archives :-)02:31
wolfspraulyou know this already of course02:31
wolfspraulbut many people don't know how these two things connect together02:31
wolfspraulthey don't sell all the little 'side boards' you need if you want to make 100k of anything02:32
wolfsprauland even if you don't look at cash cost, but just at how many days it takes you to make one of these, once you have discovered the need, that can be the make or break decision in your large run02:32
wolfspraultypo: I meant "they don't see all the little..."02:33
wolfspraulso...02:33
wolfspraulthe various tools we are fiddling around with here will help us get into a better position to make small runs of small boards possible, cheap and quick02:33
wolfsprauland that's the foundation for anything bigger02:33
wpwrakthat's why i like to have a fairly high level of independence in my little lab and workshop :)02:33
wolfspraultotally02:33
wolfspraulsmall run and large run needs complement each other02:34
wolfspraulif you want to get to the ability to do a large run, you first have to make small runs really efficient02:34
wpwrakyou need the small run capability for prototypes anyway02:34
wolfspraulthey are the building blocks of the large runs02:34
wolfspraulin my experience you need them all over the place :-)02:34
wolfspraulthere is always this or that need popping up for a board you only need 10 or 20 of02:35
wpwrakindeed. like test harnesses :)02:35
wolfspraulbut you desperately need those, otherwise you are screwed02:35
wolfspraulmaybe it's the hardware equivalents of scripting :-)02:35
wpwrakthat's not a bad comparison :)02:36
wpwrakor analogy02:36
wpwrakplus you need mechanical prototyping/one-off capabilities too, not only boards02:38
wolfspraulon the mechanical side I need to learn more about the various work steps, tools, and how they connect02:40
wolfspraulbut of course, I would agree that there are many connections and overlaps there too02:40
wpwrakcnc really helps there. e.g., for all the little micro-SD boards i have now, it would be extremely tedious to cut them manually. with the mill, once i have a good parameter set, i can very quickly make a few boards (how many depends on how many i can cut from a single raw pcb. when i have to change pcbs, a longer adjustment process is needed)02:40
wolfspraulyou mean the board outline?02:42
wpwrakfor one-offs, it's basically materials like wood or anything you can get in easily processable sheets (such as pcbs). then add screws, glue, etc. ;-)02:42
wpwrakyes, that was about board outlines02:42
wpwrakif i need something else that's 2D, the same process applies. well, i should use heekscad for such things too, so that i would get more accurate outlines (my quick and dirty math doesn't get the non-90 deg angles right). it's just an inconvenient detour, so i take the shortcut and live with a few small imperfections.02:44
wpwrakone-offs can also be all manual. depends a bit on what they are. e.g., for some of the 3D scans i need special supports that hold the part well in place but that aren't themselves "seen" by the scanner.02:46
wpwrakmany 3D problems can also be reduced to 2D. particularly the laser cutter folks are getting good at that. they have those machines that make incredibly good 2D cuts but are (almost) completely useless when it comes to 3D. so they piece their 3D structures together from 2D elements.02:50
wpwrakthere are probably a few interesting tricks to learn from them02:50
wpwrakanyway,getting a nap now. fedex may ring in just a few hours :)02:56
rohwpwrak heh.. tell me02:59
roh;)02:59
rohwpwrak holler if you need something lasered03:01
wolfspraulroh: can you show me the machines/tools you have access to when I visit Berlin around 27c3?03:03
rohwolfspraul sure03:03
wolfspraulok cool, thanks03:04
wolfspraulwpwrak: in eda-tools/boom/dist/dk/Makefile, line 40, is the -recursive in rm -rf necessary? Would a plain rm -f be enough?03:40
wolfspraulkyak: hmm, yeah. I don't know either. he used to be here more I will ping him. you can email the discussion list, cc mirko.vogt@sharism.cc03:58
kyakok, will do, thanks!03:58
kyak(however, i don't like mailing lists very much :) )03:59
kristianpaulwolfspraul: chart is thre  !!06:31
kristianpaulthanks !!06:31
kristianpaul:)06:31
wpwrakyeah. heise mentioned the ben nanonote support in their 2.6.36 announcement. not on the "front page" but at least it's there.06:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: boom/dist/dk/Makefile: changed rm -rf to rm -f (reported by Wolfgang Spraul) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/ce1d26906:43
wpwrakwolfspraul: fixed. thanks for spotting !06:43
wolfspraulwpwrak: he :-) [heise]06:44
wolfspraulthe heise guys are pretty cool, I know two of them now and they are reading what I write to them06:44
wolfspraulI'm pretty sure if we would provide a higher quality news stream to them some things would pop up, over time06:45
wolfspraulworking on it, as you know...06:45
wpwrakgood, good :)06:52
wpwrakif you have heise, you have germany :)06:53
wolfspraulI honestly think that any German media, as well as all other non-US/UK countries, are not a good starting point for syndication07:00
wolfspraulin other words, if you are covered by some relevant US or UK media, all others will pickup the story :-)07:00
wolfspraulyou can be covered in the largest French, Spanish, German, Polish or what not magazine, and nothing will happen07:00
wolfspraul(except for in that country, of course, if you have a strong enough presence there)07:01
wolfspraulso I work with German media because I happen to speak the language. just rationally my time would be better spent working with US/UK media.07:05
kyakwolfspraul: do you happen to know why "Delete" button (red arrow + BackSpace) is acting as BackSpace on Ben?07:10
wolfspraulno, sounds like a bug07:12
kyaki rememember it has always been like this07:12
kyaki just never really cared07:13
kyakneed to investigate then :)07:13
wpwrakwolfspraul: (us vs. de) dunno. germany seems to be a very fertile ground for anything open, more so (in proportion) than many other places. also, anything that gets covered in germany reaches the large population there (plus austria and switzerland). remember that germany was about on par with the us as a market for openmoko. so i think your time isn't wasted trying to access that market.07:16
methril_workwhat is the kernel on NNs?07:28
methril_workdid you see this improvement http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=0798cea8c2e1afee59686c51d27d0e96b05e42d1 ?07:29
methril_workit's on 2.6.3607:29
wolfspraulwpwrak: yes but trust me. in most cases, German journalists wait for US/UK news to translate/copy. you can reach them that way better than directly.07:29
wpwrakwolfspraul: ah well, that may be. so, theregister.co.uk next - feed the vulture ? :)07:33
wolfspraulxiangfu: I'll move the 2010-09-14 image out of the testing folder now, and point the latest symlink to it08:03
wolfspraulalso I will delete the other testing images08:03
wolfspraulI hope we have a new image soon with more frameworks working :-) (mirko is on it...)08:03
wolfspraulbut we need to officially release 2010-09-14 because it is also the one that has been reflashed on the latest run of 1k Bens08:04
wolfsprauldone... from now on people who just innocently run reflash_ben.sh will get 2010-09-1408:06
kyakthat's a very nice image08:06
wolfspraulgood you like it, I'm a bit worried about the Qt/SDL problems08:12
wolfspraulalso we broke binary compatibility (due to 0.9.32), and will probably switch back (!) in the next image08:13
wolfspraulbut of course, there are many improvements in there, it's just not all perfectly rounded yet08:13
kyaki myself never switched to 0.9.32, due to mentioned problems :)08:15
wolfspraulhe, OK08:17
wolfspraul:-)08:17
wolfspraulbut like I said, now people running reflash_ben.sh will just get it08:17
wolfsprauloh well. we will have another, better, image soon I hope08:17
kyakbut 0.9.30.1 also got it's problems.. like the screen is skrewed after exiting Qt applications08:17
wpwraktuxbrain: here's the picture you asked me about: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/f32x/c2ben-run1.jpg08:42
wpwrak(still untested if the whole contraption works properly)08:43
wpwrakwolfspraul: it's also an idea for your "street job", in case it turned out ugly. with one pcb on each side, soldering the cable is actually quite easy.08:48
wpwraknow, if fedex would hurry a little, i could make a lead-free version of it as well ...08:49
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Prepare abstraction of C2 communication. http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/ab35c6b09:06
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Support different targets. (Openmoko GTA01/02 with Dbgv3, soon c2ben.) http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/de7505109:06
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Switched from four-spaces to one-tab indentation. http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/3bbf31809:06
tuxbrainwpwrak: why only 4 wires? due it's just a test? there should be the 8 of it wired in the final break out board, isn't it?09:26
kristianpaulwolfspraul: release release !!09:33
kristianpaul:)09:33
kristianpaulxiangfu: hello, i just wonder why i must do symbolic link in rc.d to make the start init.d script to work09:35
kristianpaulonce do it, i have a nice shiny gmenu2x booting at startup09:35
kyakthat's how rc.d works09:35
kristianpaulok so the simlink is missing in the data/files folder in openwrt it seems09:36
wpwraktuxbrain: 4 wires because the thing on the other end needs only 4 connections.09:36
tuxbrainwpwrak: ok :) , your thing your rules , If I had the tools/knowledge I would had wired the all thing to have a more versatile thing, but I supouse you can do another one if you need it so... wathever I like it a lot :)09:39
wpwraktuxbrain: also, the arrangement on the other side is GND-VDD-Data-Data, (safe against polarity inversion) so I'd have to somehow rearrange the clock line that's between GND and VDD. thus, an 8-line variant wouldn't be quite generic anyway. better keep it simple :)09:39
xiangfukristianpaul, thy symbolic should done by openwrt by default.09:39
wpwraktuxbrain: (make another one) exactly. it's easy and fun ;-)09:40
xiangfuwolfspraul, ok about 2010-09-14 image.09:40
kristianpaulxiangfu: if not?..09:41
kristianpaulxiangfu: by default in the build process?09:41
xiangfukristianpaul yes09:42
kristianpaulhm09:42
kristianpaulwhat it could miss09:43
kristianpauli remenber i did the symbolic link fot the files folder.09:43
kristianpaulwel..09:43
wpwraktuxbrain: btw, how is the sdio-to-serial board coming along ? did you have any time for it ?09:45
tuxbrainwpwrak: just for curiosity, what are the software/hardwrare tools you have used to do this? I would love to see a video of the whole proccess, with that simple thing as example.09:45
tuxbrainwpwrak: this saturday I go to a hack meeting in Zgz, after the speach at morning, I have reserved the whole day to hack on spi09:46
tuxbrainI hope I can return with some results09:46
wolfspraulI have more or less completed my work on the 11/1 community news, trying to collect what I could find09:46
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2010-11-0109:46
wolfspraulif anybody has corrections, additions, etc. - edit away...09:47
wolfspraulI will spend the next few days trying to spread our newsfeed URL a bit more09:47
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/feed/rss20.xml09:47
wpwraktuxbrain: (tools) kicad and my CAM scripts at http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/cncmap/09:47
wpwraktuxbrain: the project itself is here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/f32xbase/source/tree/master/c2ben/09:47
wolfspraulxiangfu: tuxbrain : can you announce/push that feed url on your blogs?09:48
wolfspraulwe need to get a few more people to add it to their feeds, otherwise we have great news but no readers :-)09:48
wolfspraulof course anybody else here who has a blog can help too09:49
wpwraktuxbrain: i cut the boards with my CNC mill (the one that also does the scans). i used toner transfer to copy the layout on the board and then etched it with 2 H2Os + HCl.09:49
xiangfu05:48 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: i cut the boards with my CNC mill (the one that also does the scans). i used toner transfer to copy the layout on the board and then etched it with 2 H2Os + HCl.09:49
tuxbrainthe cnc was a profesional one or DIY09:50
xiangfusorry. wrong "ENTER"09:50
wpwraktuxbrain: for the cable, i used one of these cable peeling machines, to get a straight cut. (i normally use a pincer-like tool, but that one does only one cable at a time) lemme see if i can find a picture ...09:50
xiangfuworkspace , yes sure.09:50
wpwraktuxbrain: (cnc) it's my roland mdx-15. comes ready to use out of the box.09:51
wpwraktuxbrain: diy may be cheaper and more flexible, though.09:52
tuxbrainwpwrak: the thing is make it accurate :)09:52
tuxbrainas long term project we are triying to equip us with tools to achive make our own prototipe pcbs09:54
wpwraktuxbrain: here's such a wire stripper: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=PA1115P-ND09:55
wpwraktuxbrain: looks nicer than mine, though. mine's something like 20 years old :)09:56
tuxbrainwe are near to finishing our insolator http://www.tuxbrain.com/projects/insoladora/insoladora.zip09:57
wpwraktuxbrain: then i superglued the cable on the board, let it dry a bit, and then soldered the contacts. the glue holds everything nicely in place, so the soldering is easy. you don't even need to tin the cables first. i did pre-tin the board, though. i now always do this, because it also protects the traces from corrosion.09:57
kristianpaulwhat are you guys doing? (sounds really interesting)09:58
tuxbrainwpwrak: interesting... how is done the procces of pre-tin?09:58
wpwraktuxbrain: last but not least, i taped the boards down with painter's tape and put a bit of silicone on the cable and non-contact areas. shaped it manually (put a bit of alcohol on the finger and it won't stick)09:59
tuxbrainafter this, we will go to the cnc09:59
wpwrakkristianpaul: it's just a little pair of boards for in-circuit programming of c8051f32x chips, connected to the ben's uSD port10:00
kristianpauloh ok10:00
jluistuxbrain: I think you should read this http://csolaviejaescuela.blogspot.com/10:00
tuxbrainwpwrak: nice finishing point , :)10:01
wpwraktuxbrain: (have in-house prototyping facilities) yes, that's a very good idea :) you're so much more in control of things if you don't need to outsource every little task. and you save time as well.10:02
wpwraktuxbrain: (tinning) just apply flux to the whole board, put a bit of tin on a large pad, and "paint" it with the soldering iron over the entire board.10:03
tuxbrainjluis: yeah I know, I have call them this morning , hehehe we don't need to make arrested to go to prison... we go there voluntaring :)10:03
wpwraktuxbrain: if course, it helps if your boards are small (which mine generally are ;-)10:03
tuxbrainmmm this is after the acid treatment isn't it?10:04
wpwraktuxbrain: for the flux, i'd recommend water-soluble. it's the easiest to get rid of. RA flux is a sticky nightmare. no-clean flux is more difficult to wash off than water soluble. you could of course leave no-clean on the board, but your board will look messy and the flux is also a weak conductor, so there could be surprises.10:05
lekernelhttp://www.funcubedongle.com/10:05
wpwraktuxbrain: yes, tinning is after the etching10:05
tuxbrainlekernel: what is the fun cube satellite? and what it does?10:07
lekernelit's for AMSAT (amateur radio satellites)10:07
lekernelcheck out that keyword10:07
lekernelthey've been operating since a few years after Sputnik, which is a lot more impressive to me that this OSSI (that "DIY/arduino/designer" satellite) crap10:08
wpwraklekernel: nice board ! haven't gotten myself to work with stencils yet.10:08
lekerneldunno if you've seen OSSI... it's just one more of those crappy arduinesque things10:09
lekernelit has some buzz which is simply ridiculous, amateur radios have been _doing_ their "revolution" for decades already10:10
tuxbrainwow, DIY satellites, I don't know this thing even exist :), and they say they are near to launch one soon!10:10
lekernelthey already launched a lot10:11
wolfspraullekernel: wow nice blog! I'll add it to our planet... do you know the license of their work?10:11
tuxbrainmmmm how? from where? who? for what? wow10:12
lekernelonly they _do_ things and don't talk much, so they are drown in the twitteresque/arduinesque noise10:12
lekernelhamradios do a lot of interesting stuff10:12
lekernelit's much better than the DIY yuppies10:13
tuxbrainlekernel: common don't be so hard of with the EE wannabies like me :P10:13
wpwraklekernel and arduino will feature in La Haine II ;-)10:14
wolfspraullekernel: if you know more such blogs please let me know I am very interested in collecting them in our planet10:15
wpwrakwolfspraul: that's the spirit ! "_our_ planet" ! world domination ! ;-)10:15
tuxbrainlekernel: I agree in dismmiss all those that prettend to sell arduino as the definitive solution for electronics , but I compare it to duct tape, usefull to do patches and quick prototiping , but not for a pro use,10:17
lekernelit's merely an AVR, which is perfectly suitable for professional use10:18
wolfsprauldefinitive solution for electronics :-) that hurts even me...10:18
wolfspraulyes it's an AVR breakout board10:18
tuxbrainhey they exist, I have talked to them10:18
tuxbrainIn every places are fanboys10:19
wolfspraullekernel: do you know the license of the funcube stuff? I googled a bit but can't find anything10:19
wolfsprauljust lazy to search more if you already know it :-)10:19
lekernelcan't find it either10:19
tuxbrainand bigger is the community more tendency to that conduct in his users is.10:19
lekernelhamradios aren't usually open source fanatics either, though most of what they do often respects the same principles10:20
tuxbrainbtw wolfgang great news recopilation  , all toghether look preety good (now in right channel)10:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add ghostscript to Build-Depends http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/708230f10:23
wolfspraultuxbrain: thanks, quite a bit of work but I'm happy now10:26
wolfspraulthis also serves as our own reference later10:26
wolfspraulthe news are now showing on the qi homepage, they are in the rss/atom feed, they can be edited by anyone and published by all wiki admins, etc.10:27
wolfspraulso now I can go promote the feed URL, talk to journalists10:27
tuxbrainindeed :)10:27
wpwrakwolfspraul: are the 1000 still waiting in the warehouse or have you already shipped some ?10:30
tuxbraindecember release also looks promising10:30
wolfspraulhmm don't know10:30
wolfspraulhe :-)10:30
wolfspraulmaybe we have started to slowly sell into those 100010:30
tuxbrainI have a 50 slice of that pie pending to order soon10:31
wolfspraultuxbrain has an order of 50 but he's a bit slow :-)10:31
tuxbraincommon :)10:31
wolfspraulok ok10:31
wolfspraulmy beloved customer has exactly the right speed10:31
tuxbrainthats better :)10:31
tuxbrainbut yes, I sorry you know that bank stuff is killing me10:31
wolfspraulstep by step10:32
wolfspraulI am trying to switch my payment gateway to a (hopefully) better one, and I'm literally 4 months into the paperwork now10:32
wolfspraulin the end we all believe we are building a business infrastructure that helps us in the future... hopefully...10:33
tuxbrainToday I have the sign of contracts and oh! suprise a mistake in numbers!!! coool on week delay again :(10:33
wpwraktuxbrain: (insoladora) wow. but what does it do ? :)10:33
wolfspraulsure, I can imagine10:33
tuxbrainhehehe insolate?10:34
tuxbrainthose are UV leds10:34
wolfspraullekernel: I added the FUNcube feed to the qi planet http://en.qi-hardware.com/planet/10:35
wolfspraulI think it fits very well thanks a lot for the link. if you have more stuff like this please post it...10:35
wpwrakwolfspraul: typo at the very end s/fedore/Fedora/10:36
wolfspraulI hope these guys don't mind syndication, it's pretty standard accepted for such blogs nowadays but who knows, if you say they are not that much into free maybe.10:36
wolfspraulwell if they don't like it I'll remove the feed of course10:36
wpwraktuxbrain: yes, but what are they for ? do you need a tan ? ;-) for making pcbs, toner transfer i much simpler10:37
wpwraks/ i / is /10:37
tuxbrainwolfspraul: no don't do it, they can be the perfect excuse to start our sue saga :P10:37
wolfspraulwpwrak: thanks, fixed [fedore]10:38
wolfspraulI think the FEL people write 'fedora' lowercase btw10:38
wpwrakwolfspraul: (news) how about a box with links to the main sections, like on wikis ?10:38
wolfspraulI removed the toc, should I add it back?10:38
wolfspraulcheck it now10:38
wpwrak(fedora) ah, indeed. so is it fEL then ? :)10:39
tuxbrainwpwrak: well I don't know wat pcb you use but here the more comon and cheap are the ones fotosensible , you use tonner transfeer or transparence sheets , irradiate for a while and then acid treatement....10:39
wpwraka toc seems nice. gives one a bit an idea what to expect. also helps if you want to look up something later.10:39
wolfspraultoc added back in10:39
wolfspraulI think I will remove the 'plans for the future' section10:40
wpwraktuxbrain: hmm, toner transfer works like this: you print with a laser printer on plastified paper, the kind you use for photo prints with ink printers.10:40
wolfspraulI was excited about boom at the time, but the news is already overloaded.10:40
wolfspraulonce boom is ready, it's time to show up in the news10:40
wolfspraulgone. if someone wants it back, or add their own world domination plans, go ahead revert the change.10:41
wpwraktuxbrain: when you iron the toner directly on the PCB (or, if you're lazy like me, you use a "plastificadora" .. hmm, what's this in english ...10:41
wpwrak... a laminator). then wash it a bit to get rid of the goo that may come from the paper and off in the acid with it. no need for UV or photo development.10:42
wpwraktuxbrain: this process if good enough even for fairly small things. IDBG, ben-wpan, etc.10:43
tuxbrainwe are even lazyer, we will just put the piece of sheet in a cristal, put the pcb on top and push the button :)10:43
wpwrakwolfspraul: (boom deferred) yeah, no rush with that :)10:44
tuxbrainI must leave10:44
wpwraktuxbrain: ah well, whatever works :)10:44
tuxbrainsee you later :)10:44
wpwrak(mm1 measurements) nice work ! and nice scope :)10:48
wpwrakwolfspraul: news look pretty good. the pictures sometimes disrupt the flow a bit, but i wouldn't know how to make this better either.10:51
wpwraktuxbrain_away: this is almost exactly what my cheap and ancient wire stripper looks like. nice to see that they still make them: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-96532119-pelacables-automatico-con-cortador-de-cables-power-_JM10:52
wolfspraulhmm10:53
wolfspraulgood point about disruption10:53
wolfspraulI think strong pictures will always do that though.10:53
wolfspraulone problem is the big scope of the news, so you have to slow down your mind if you want to actually understand what is written.10:54
wolfspraulwell if anybody wants to edit the news for readability, just go ahead10:54
wolfspraulthere are enough facts there at least, I did that homework collecting facts and URLs10:54
wolfsprauland some generally usable pics and videos I think10:54
wolfspraulI won't do many edits anymore, I had enough :-) will spend the next few days promoting the feed URL instead, so hopefully when it's released (and for future news), we have more readers10:56
wpwrakwolfspraul: (pics) it's not so much about the content but about the visual structure. e.g., the RSS newsfeed item after the bootscreen is very easy to overlook10:59
wpwrakwolfspraul: and the schhist screenshot almost hides the text above it :)11:00
wpwrakwolfspraul: maybe putting the 1000 NNs first and schhist last would help. that way, the first picture isn't so huge and there would be nothing directly after the huge schhist screenshot11:02
wpwrakwolfspraul: another possibility would be to shrink the schdiff picture and link to a larger version, but that would make it inconvenient to access. for getting an idea of what it is about, your reduced screenshot has just the right size.11:04
wolfspraulwpwrak: how about now? :-)11:05
wolfsprauloh sure that screenshot is already heavily 'massaged'11:06
wolfspraulI cut rows and columns at will just to get the impression across in around 1000px width11:07
wpwrak(massaged) i didn't think it was easy ;-)11:07
wolfspraulI have the rss thing at the top now in italics11:07
wpwrakhmm, the RSS thingy is still easy to overlook. it's an area where wikipedia normally puts meta-information "(redirected from furble)" and such11:08
wpwrakbut at least it's not lost in space anymore :)11:08
wpwrak(overlook) well, perhaps that's just me :)11:09
wolfspraulwpwrak: have you ever seen manufacturer or distributor part numbers being case sensitive? or using characters outside of a-z, 0-9, '-', what else?11:29
wolfsprauldoes boom make any assumptions about it? I think spaces have to be enclosed in quotes, but are otherwise supported?11:30
wolfspraulhow about case sensitivity?11:30
wpwrakpart numbers very often are just upper case. but some do have weird characters11:31
arquebushello? anyone here?11:31
wpwraklemme find one great example ...11:31
wpwrakhttp://media.digikey.com/pdf/PCNs/Stackpole/Global Part Number Change.pdf11:32
wolfspraularquebus: yes you are not alone. how can we help?11:33
wpwrakwolfspraul: boom only cares about whitespace. whatever you do between whitespace is your business. there's currently no way to escape whitespace.11:34
wolfspraul.mx is malaysia? maldives? :-)11:35
wolfspraulwpwrak: "computer unfriendly characters" :-)11:35
wolfspraulhow about case sensitivity?11:35
wpwrakwolfspraul: BOOM is more or less case sensitive. field names should be case-insensitive, but there may be holes in that.11:35
wolfspraulyes that's why I'm asking :-)11:36
wolfspraulI read it there and it made me wonder...11:36
wolfspraulso part numbers are case sensitive?11:36
wpwrakthey should be, yes11:36
wolfsprauland the gen/chr processing is case sensitive?11:36
wpwrakexcept for field names, yes11:36
wolfspraulbasically you are not upper- or lower-casing strings anywhere, except somewhere in fields processing11:36
wolfspraulok got it11:37
wpwrakthat's it, yes :)11:37
wolfspraulso that means since most part numbers seem to be written upper-case, we must do that too11:37
wolfspraullet's hope that the other 'computer systems' are case sensitive too11:37
wpwraknot sure if it really makes sense to be case-insentitive in field names. maybe not. more consistent.11:37
wolfspraulI can definitely imagine many ERP systems just upper-casing a-z11:37
wpwrakone problem with fields is that you can easily get silent failures on a typo.11:38
wolfspraulI doubt people have learned that lesson.11:38
wpwrakif everyone used upper case and the ERPs upper-case input, then all is fine :)11:38
wolfsprauldo you remember having seen any lower-case part numbers?11:39
wpwraknow, i have no idea what happens if you try UTF8 characters :)11:39
wpwrakcan't recall any at the moment11:39
wolfspraulok11:39
wolfspraulwill keep an eye for it11:39
wpwrakthere must be some pervers somewhere who did that, though ;-)11:39
wpwraktoys ! :)15:01
qbjectaisa: greetz16:27
aisahowdy!16:27
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: Routing VCCO2 source. http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/a7d01af16:27
qbjectaisa: What's new?16:28
aisadid you hear I crashed my bike?16:29
aisaMy injury is a week and a couple days old,16:29
aisaI have a couple broken bones, cracked teeth, stiches.16:29
aisaI'm on the mend, but lower energy than usual,16:29
aisaand having to cut back on stuff I'm working on.16:29
aisaMy e-mail backlog is still frightful.16:29
qbjectYes, you did tell me the other day. I was curious about your recovery.16:29
qbjectOok. I bet.16:29
qbjectDid you wipe out or get hit?16:31
qbjectwpwrak: toys?16:35
aisaqbject: I wiped out, best as I can tell.  I don't have memory of the crash, but there was no indication I was hit.16:36
wpwrakqbject: a shipment of electronic components16:42
qbjectaisa: Wow. Really glad to know you're mending, albeit slowly.16:48
qbjectwpwrak: Cool!16:48
kristofferany link to an nanonote default config?16:52
B_Lizzardlarsc, alive?16:54
larscB_Lizzard: yes16:55
B_LizzardHi, 2.6.36 is out, how do I get a defconfig up and running?16:56
B_LizzardUm, meaning, where do I get a defconfig for 2.6.36?16:56
larscuse the one from the projects.qi-hardware.com kernel repo16:56
larscit should work16:57
B_LizzardThis: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/tree/master/.config ?16:58
larschm17:00
larscno17:00
larsci'll commit one17:00
B_LizzardAh, OK17:00
B_LizzardThere's no .config in the 2.6.36 branch17:00
wpwraktuxbrain: ah, did i mention that the small atmels (the kind that would be ideal for the serial board) are a little difficult to source ? digi-key only have the atmega48 in an 28qfn package.17:26
qbjectwpwrak: that thing on Atmel's site about license termination is pretty spooky. think that means that the could pull the plug on one of their binary blob libraries and you'd have to comply?17:34
wpwrakqbject: huh, url ?17:36
qbjecthttp://www.atmel.com/general/legal_information.asp17:36
qbject(from you and wolfie talking in here on 9-1)17:36
wpwrakqbject: well, i don't think we use any binary blob libraries. they could ask us to destroy all data sheets, though. not sure if this would have any legal standing, though.17:38
qbjectwpwrak: I was all excited to make a QTouch/AVR keyboard on a nice heavy piece of FR4. I am less excited about it now.17:39
qbjectBecause the QTouch lib is a blob based on a patent they acquired.17:40
wpwrakqbject: what does happen from time to time is that a company stops distributing previously publicly available material. but i've never heard of one asking their customers to destroy the documentation they already obtained.17:40
wpwrakqbject: just say "no" to closed-source software :)17:41
qbjectwpwrak: Oh, I do. I do. Did you hear that Fruity Computers from Cupertino will now have their own horrible censored app store?17:42
wpwrakqbject: hmm ? did they ever have one that wasn't censored ? :)17:43
wpwrakwhee, mirko, back from the dead ! :)17:43
qbjectwpwrak: No, they didn't, but I mean they're setting one up for the desktops and laptops themselves, not just embedded devices.17:44
Action: qbject throws up just thinking about it.17:44
wpwrakqbject: well, never change a winning team, eh ? ;-)17:44
qbjectI used to be one of those fanboys. I was gonna build a hackintosh but found it easier to install CrunchBang Linux, and it was all downhill from there.17:44
wpwrakqbject: as long as there are enough gullible who buy their stuff ...17:45
qbjectwpwrak: I guess not. I've just gotta wonder if this is how ol' Stevie wanted it all along. "Free people from their preconceptions so that we can imprision them in a whole new set of preconceptions that benefit US."17:46
wpwrakqbject: (go to linux) good move ! ;-)17:46
qbjectwpwrak: It'll be even better when they finish the move from Ubuntu repos to pure Debian.17:47
wpwrakqbject: i've heard that he's a control freak. so, obviously, anybody else's control bothers him :)17:47
jcomhi17:48
qbjectHi jcom17:48
jcomI've found a bug in the latest testing image of the ben nanonote17:48
jcomdoes anybody now where should I report it?17:48
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: Add jz4740 udc driver http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/e57568317:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: Add ili8960 lcd driver http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/a74358d17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: li http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/f8359db17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: Add gpio chager driver http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/016d98c17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4740: qi_lb60: Add gpio-charger device http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/22f28f717:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: Add n516 board support http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/3c4c22317:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: n516 http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/0632d2917:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: Add n526 board support http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/f40825a17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: n526 http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/08db3d417:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: Add N516 sound SoC board driver http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/ccfcd1617:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: Add N526 sound SoC board driver http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/a70e08a17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: i2c: Add i2c driver for JZ47XX SoCs http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/4057d1c17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4740: Fix i2c driver name. http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/f5721fa17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4740: Add id800wt board http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/79efed517:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MFD: jz4740-adc: Add support for the touchscreen part of the adc unit http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/be8535017:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: input: Add touchscreen driver for the JZ4740 SoC http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/734fd6c17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: qi_lb60: Don't use 3-wire spi mode for the display for now http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/998c2af17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: qi_lb60: Fix gpio for the 6th row of the keyboard matrix http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/5dd125317:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: dma sg http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/be6724d17:52
qi-bot[commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: Add defconfig http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/cbf420a17:52
aisajcom: after the commit storm, will you ask your question again ;-)17:52
wpwrakaisa: there's an automatic cut-off at 20 commits, i think. seems that lars reached it :)17:53
jcomwell, my question is where should I report a bug that I've found in the latest testing software image of the17:54
jcomben17:55
aisahttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/p/ben-nanonote/issues/17:56
aisathis is the issue tracker.17:56
jcomok, I will fill the bug report17:57
jcomthanks17:57
qi-bot[commit] xiangfu: mark ncmpc as BROKEN, http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f85925717:57
wpwraki really like the way ingenic implemented the gpio register interface. so much nicer than samsung's more traditional approach.17:59
larscyes yes yes18:00
larscrace free register access is great18:00
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: remove ncmpc since it mark as BROKEN http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/dd29d3918:00
kristianpaulindeed18:06
kristianpaulconfusing at first later bery handy18:07
kristianpaulvery*18:07
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Renamed gpio.* to gpio-s3c24xx.* http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/3c9abdc19:18
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Moved C2 bitbang functions from c2-om.c to (#included) c2-bitbang.c http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/6a4da0e19:18
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Labeled the control signals with the Ben's GPIOs http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/4f7435719:18
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Don't call gpio_init in c2_init, so that we can do additional setup work before http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/80a015219:18
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: f32x: added support for the c2ben adapter http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/bb600da19:18
wpwrakworks :-)19:18
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: First commit for sie code generator project. http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/32a206d21:32
rafalarsc: so.. are you happy with 2.6.36? I mean.. is it the best kernel to use now?21:58
larscrafa: you should use 2.6.36 from the qi hardware repo22:06
rafalarsc: okey.. soon we will try to release a new jlime beta.. so I would like to use your latest kernel.22:07
kristianpaulrafa: wikipedia on jlime coming btw?? :D22:20
rafakristianpaul: we should right ? :)22:35
kristianpaulrafa: sure let me know how i help testing22:41
kristianpauleven if need a 4gb card i can try get one22:42
kristianpauli relly depend on wikipedia more than google sometimes i think22:42
kristianpaulwpwrak: rafa want i tell you your sofware is jlime compatible :)22:42
kristianpauli have some blinks now :)22:43
rafawpwrak: well, I can not test.. so I can not be sure that it is jlime compatible.. but I know kristianpaul tests ;)22:46
--- Fri Oct 22 201000:00

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