#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2010-10-20

qi-bot[commit] xiangfu: add SDL_ttf freetype to LIBS http://qi-hw.com/p/imgv/933f92b01:23
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu:  - [imgv] update to commit 933f92b http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f6c0b2a01:30
nitin_guptai have opened a file using vim03:28
nitin_guptahow can scroll down the file ?03:29
nitin_guptawhat all editors are available in NN ?03:33
xiangfu_nitin_gupta: [j] [k] for scroll down and up ,03:48
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add new packages from openwrt-package.git http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d60b51c03:53
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [ncmpc] update to 0.18, update the download and home URL http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/8b8403603:54
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [joe-full] renmae qijoe to joe-full http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/25d68f803:54
nitin_guptai tried it but not working03:55
nitin_guptacan qt3 application run on NN ?04:09
wolfspraulwpwrak: I uploaded KiCad debian packages that include bzr2448 plus your patches04:11
wolfspraulI will use them on my host, and next time I do anything serious on the buildhost, will upgrade it there as well.04:11
wolfspraulI will not upgrade the buildhost right now because there is no known bug, and an upgrade now may break something and waste my time.04:12
wolfspraulthe problem with eeschema some_file.sch not resolving paths correctly is fixed in bzr2448 btw04:12
nitin_guptawhere I can have the qt header file and C source files04:13
wolfspraulI documented the steps to build the package here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_setup#KiCad04:18
wpwrakwolfspraul: (kicd) cool !04:25
wpwrakwolfspraul: the directory thing is a little weird. i thought i had once submitted a patch that fixed it but i'm not sure anymore. maybe there was also a regression.04:26
wolfspraulyes. :-) next time you choose a higher version number I should be able to rebuild the package in a day...04:26
xiangfu_i also upload the last fped package to : http://projects.qi-hardware.com/p/fped/downloads/04:28
wpwraktoday is package day ;-)04:29
wolfspraulwpwrak: for boom, we just had a case in Milkymist One where the vendor increased the acceptable voltage range of a part without changing the part number05:52
wpwrakmaybe the old ones were good for higher voltage as well ?05:53
wolfspraulin general it's probably imaginable that not all criteria that are required for a project will trigger a part number change on the other side (manufacturer) when changed05:53
wolfspraulsay for example some mechanical property is actually required, but not expressed in the part number05:53
wolfspraul6 months later the mechanical property changes, without part number change05:53
wolfspraulthis is a hypothetical example but I think it's a case to keep in mind05:54
wpwraki still marvel at the stunt samsung pulled off with the s3c2442 A-to-B transition, where all the pull-ups became pull-downs.05:54
wolfspraulwell what I am talking about now is that the part number may not give 100% accuracy05:54
wolfspraulbecause we may depend on some parameter that will not trigger a p/n change even when this parameter is changed on the other side05:54
wpwrakyes. sometimes you also have revisions. a0 has this errata, b0 not.05:55
wpwrakor not revision but date code. there's usually *something* that tells you want you have.05:55
wolfspraulthis case here, the voltage range was extended to lower05:55
wolfspraulit used to be 4.5v to 5.5v, and then it was increased to 2.7v to 5.5v without p/n change05:55
wpwrakif two identically marked parts are still different, just treat them as the worst case of both :)05:55
wolfspraulif your design tries to use this component with 3.0v you better make sure to actually get the newer chips05:56
wpwrakbecause if you can't tell them apart, nobody else can either05:56
wolfspraulI'm not saying it's not determinable at all.05:56
wolfspraulbut the p/n may not carry enough precision05:56
wpwrak(extended voltage) but are thepackage markings the same ?05:56
wolfspraulthe part number did not change05:57
wolfspraulI'm sure there is some other way to tell the difference.05:57
wpwrakyou could include the other stuff (revision, date code, etc.) in the part number as well.05:57
wpwrakfor revision, this is not too uncommon05:57
wolfspraulwho is 'you'?05:57
wolfspraulyou mean in our bom?05:57
wolfspraulat some point you will always have a translation05:57
wpwrakyou can be the distributor. or you the developer05:57
wolfsprauland without manufacturer part number change, the chances that the digikey/mouser/any distributor number changes is also small05:58
wpwraktranslations are fine. .equ files are your friends ;-)05:58
wpwraki think digikey sometimes have the revision in the part number05:58
wolfspraulmany things are encoded in the part number, so the manufacturer will typically issue a new one for all sorts of reasons05:58
wolfspraulbut maybe still not for all reasons that you would care about05:58
wpwraksignificant silicon revisions are pretty common05:59
wolfspraulok just thought I mention this case05:59
wpwrakyes, it's something to keep in mind05:59
wolfspraulmaybe that's why extensive notes/comments fields are a good idea06:00
wolfspraulI remember you said the onces you saw from FIC were quite detailed06:00
wolfspraulthere can always be a mismatch in criteria on what someone considers 'different'06:01
wpwraka "generalized notes" item could be useful, yes. perhaps also for dta asheet urls and such06:02
wpwrakbtw, are you trying to "boomify" a project ?06:02
wolfspraulsure I will06:02
wpwrakaha ! that's why you're in a hurry :)06:03
mstevens /quit06:03
wpwrakhow far along is it ?06:03
wolfspraulin which sense?06:03
wolfspraulYanjun Luo has made 4 functioning boards06:03
wolfspraulI have sent 3 to Sebastien (not arrived yet)06:03
wpwrakso ready for MP ?06:03
wolfspraulsounds like world domination06:04
wpwrakit kinda is :)06:04
wolfspraulI need to make another 30 or 40, yes06:04
wolfspraulbut it's also a test project06:04
wpwrakbtw, who is yanjou lou ?06:04
wolfspraulso using this opportunity I do many things that will be useful later06:04
methril_workwow!! wolfspraul tell us his plans!!! ;)06:04
wolfspraulan fpga engineering working for an American router company in Beijing06:04
wpwrakschematic are in kicad ?06:05
methril_work<wolfspraul> sounds like world domination06:05
wolfspraullayout too06:05
wolfsprauljust not very clean06:05
wolfspraulI am cleaning it up now.06:05
wpwrakah, i have it here ... having a peek06:05
wpwrakis my pcbnew crazy or did someone really copy all the component values on the side ? ;-))06:06
wolfspraulthere is a lot of cleanup to do06:08
wolfspraulalso some things are not committed06:08
wolfspraulwait a bit06:08
wolfspraulI was planning to ask you to have a look, but a little later06:08
wpwrakgrr ;)06:09
wolfspraulclose your eyes, reopen in a few hours06:09
wpwraksure, no rush :)06:10
wpwrakthey didn't use fped, did they ?06:10
wolfspraulthis project is a very nice opportunity for me to learn06:10
wpwrakpity. i'd love to see an industrially made board with fped footprints.06:10
wolfspraulI can boomify it, and fpedize as well (though later)06:10
wpwrak(as a verification)06:11
wolfspraulindustrially made?06:11
wolfspraulif I do this myself, it's as much hobbyist as you can imagine06:11
wolfspraulprobably if I screw up I will hand it over to Adam last minute :-)06:11
wpwrakwith all the special layers. solder mark, silk screen, solder paste layer06:11
wpwraksolder maSk06:11
wolfspraulwait until we get to xue06:11
wpwrakthe relatively simple fpga board would be an opportunity to validate the stuff. so far, afaik, no "full" board has been made with fped.06:13
wolfspraulwhich board do you mean?06:13
wolfspraul'relatively simple fpga board'?06:13
wpwrakit works perfectly for my diy stuff, but i don't know yet if i didn't screw up elsewhere06:14
wpwrakerr, jtag not fpga :)06:14
wolfspraulfirst step, I cleanup this project06:14
wpwrakoh, for bragging about our tools to the press. there's also "solidify" in the CAE department ;-)06:16
wpwrakmeanwhile, fedex accomplished the miracle of getting my parcel across a third of the planet in only about 24 hours. now it's custom's turn to perform the anti-miracle of sitting on it for a day while doing absolutely nothing ...06:26
zearwpwrak, don't worry, it was weeks of customs in my case06:26
wpwrakzear: lovely customs you have :) btw, my shipment if from digi-key, not a ben06:27
zearwpwrak, in my case it was missing invoices, requirement of me signing tons of papers and finally parcel inspection06:28
wpwrakzear: btw2, regarding HoMM2: i wonder, has the artwork also been liberated ?06:28
zearnothing has been06:28
zearit is an engine recreation project06:29
wpwrakzear: (no invoice) oh dear. that's nasty :-(06:29
zearHoMM2 authors didn't do a thing06:29
wpwrakah, pity06:29
zearso no, their artwork and the rest of the datafiles still aren't libre06:29
wpwrakdo the authors even sill exist ? ;-)06:29
zearwho knows ;)06:29
zearthere were some HoMM series releases recently06:29
zearfrom what i have heard06:29
zearbut it weren't the classic heroes games anymore06:30
wpwraki have/had HoMM3 for linux. loved the skills system.06:31
zearit's just free software people doing good job recreating the engine, also wrote a new gui for 320x240 devices06:31
zearah yeah, HoMM3 had an official linux port, am i right?06:31
wpwrak320x240 must have been tricky06:32
wpwrak(official port) yes, by loki06:32
zearit works great with the current gui06:32
zearyou should check it out06:32
wpwrakdon't tell me this if you want to see anything coming from me in the next months :)06:32
zearlooks like the battle screen is scaled down, but the rest of the screens are re-done to fit 320x24006:32
zearthe castle screen is totally different (no nice landscape with your buildings), but it still does it's job06:33
wpwrak(re-done for 320x240) sounds great06:33
wpwrakdo you know kohan ? also has an official linux port06:33
zeari remember the ads of it in pc magazines06:34
zeari might have a demo on one of my old cds06:34
zearnever played it though06:34
wpwrakit's very nice. "real-time" (you can pause, though), 3D-ish view, gridless movements06:35
zearso it's an rts?06:35
wpwrakhow, add the skills system of HoMM2 and the complexity of the later members of the rogue family, and you have something that will absorb several generations of geeks :)06:36
wpwrakit's kinda rts. no turns.06:36
zearrogue family as in roguelikes?06:36
zearsounds cool though06:36
wpwrak(rogue family) yup. moria, omega, nethack, the angbands, etc.06:37
zeari prefer turn based strategies though, with the exception of starcraft which i loved back when it was out06:37
zeari'd play anything that reasembles rougelikes in any way ;)06:38
zearwhich reminds me, there's nethack gui port to the jlime, plays really good06:38
zeari wish one could adopt other roguelikes to this gui06:38
wpwrakstrtegy is more precise in turn-based. but kohan is pretty nice. i think with a stronger skill system, you'd have more strategy as well.06:38
zearomega would be hard to port though, i checked the code and it's very binded to the standard size terminal (80ish lines), and makes a big use of carriage return06:39
wpwrakomega may be a bit old, too. how about the later angbands ?06:39
zeari think they already offer sdl interface06:40
zeardon't know if one with graphical tilesets06:40
zearbut i'm sure i have seen sdl flags during the compilation of zangband06:40
zearthat still doesn't mean it could fit in 320x240 though06:40
zearthere's powder, which i aready ported06:40
zearbut it's more chess than a real roguelike06:41
wpwrakyeah. i also often find the graphical variants of roguelikes not very convincing. hard to see the details.06:41
wpwrakand the graphics often aren't very good.06:41
zearwpwrak, the nethack-newt from jlime is quite cool though06:41
zearby pressing tab you can switch between graphical tileset and classic ascii-like view06:41
wpwrakah, nice :)06:42
zearit also has some options for different ascii variants06:42
zearthe standard ASCII, one from IBM pcs (with smiley faces instead of @) and something else i think06:42
zearsome of the text strings don't fit on the screen (the longer fortune cake texts, or item names like "+1 blessed ring of fire resistance"06:44
zearbut besides that everything fits perfectly in 320x24006:44
wpwrakyou could abreviate item descriptions. e.g., FR. (like some roguelikes have FT weapons)06:45
wpwrak(fire tongue)06:45
zearor they could simply break the lines on the end of the screen ;)06:46
wpwrakor connect another ben for the remaining 320 pixels ;-)06:46
zearunfortunatelly don't have a second one ;)06:47
wpwrakit's only a few weeks of customs ;-)06:47
zeari don't think i need a second paperweight ;)06:48
wpwrakwhy - did the first one break ?06:48
zearno, simply don't have much use of it (have a dingoo for playing games, jornada 720 for typing stuff on)06:49
zearif it had wireless or usb host on the other hand..06:51
wpwrakwhen my parcel makes it out of customs, i'll have some more fun with wireless :)06:52
rafaI need to tell you, that, unfortunately, tuxbrain will not be online for the next two months.. sorry07:02
rafathe resaons are quite complex.. but I will try to say those in short : B_Lizzard and zear showed tuxbrain fheroes2 :D07:04
tuxbrainhehehe, the fact is the lack of save/load of HOMM2 make it unplayable for me.... this or as you said I dissapear for that time07:04
B_LizzardOh, does it work?07:04
wpwrakrafa: let's hope victor makes him eat from time to time :)07:04
zeartuxbrain, the game supports save/load just fine07:04
B_Lizzardzear made it compile with a lot of useless stuff, libsdl-net and whatnot07:05
tuxbrainnah I just need cafeine directly on the vein07:05
rafawpwrak: I asked him if victor likes games, so he should not show him that game.. but it was too late to ask.. tuxbrain was playing07:05
rafaB_Lizzard: yes, we tested your package on muffinman beta3 using demo data files.07:05
B_LizzardNext up, Settlers II07:05
wpwraktuxbrain: you know the penguin peppermints ? :)07:05
zearB_Lizzard, you wish there was a 320x240 of settlers II07:05
tuxbrainyep no able to import to spain :(07:06
B_LizzardThere will be when I'm done :D07:06
zearwpwrak, i know it only from hte screenshot. A really crappy use of gimp images ;)07:06
zearB_Lizzard, there will be if you start it07:06
B_LizzardOr warcraft II07:06
B_LizzardI can do that07:06
zearB_Lizzard, wargus can't work on 320x24007:06
B_LizzardI had warcraft II working on the 6xx07:06
zearbetter start working on the new 320x240 gui07:07
B_LizzardI even had Baldur's Gate on the 6xx07:07
zearmeh, we've got that with a quite fast scaler on the dingoo already07:07
zearit requires a huge memory card to fit all that 6 cd of BG ;)07:07
B_LizzardWell, not huge07:08
rafaB_Lizzard: zear : when will you be older and serious??!.. the whole day talking about games07:08
B_LizzardI can find a 16GB MicroSD for 30$07:08
zearB_Lizzard, i though you greek guys were poor now07:08
wpwraktuxbrain: (no import) oh, how come ? i used to mail-order them to switzerland07:08
rafazear: yes they are07:08
B_LizzardI'm not Greek07:08
rafared greek07:09
zearB_Lizzard, you're 1/2 greek and 1/4 argentinian07:09
rafaHAHA TRUE!07:09
zearthat makes you only 1/4 english07:09
zearB_Lizzard's spanish now?07:10
B_LizzardMy mother was born in Spain so that must count07:10
rafawpwrak: B_Lizzard likes dulce de leche.. you should07:11
zearB_Lizzard, you have ancestors from every nation :P07:11
rafazear: maybe he is your cousin07:12
zearoh no, must be why i have terrible memories from my childhood :|07:13
wpwrakrafa: that proves his argentine descent then. i think the dulce de leche gene doesn't exist anywhere else :)07:13
wpwrakprobably the result of some evil experiments escaped nazi scientists did to the unsuspecting population here ...07:15
B_LizzardThis channel is now Godwin'd07:15
wpwrakwell, or maybe it was martians. at least it can't be natural07:16
rafawpwrak: yes.. dulce de leche virus.. and just argentine gene got problems07:16
wpwrak(godwin) took long enough :)07:16
zearB_Lizzard, godwin's law does not apply for discussions about your descent :P07:17
wpwrakmaybe it's the result of a chemical warfare project gone awry. maybe the plan as to drop it on the british in the falkland/malvinas way and it somehow got misdirected and ended up in the food chain07:18
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added licensing information and a bit more documentation to schhist. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/853ede907:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added README and licensing information to boom. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/d2b53ac07:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv/dsv: added copyright notice. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/5e4b41a07:23
wpwrakhm .. there's one missing ...07:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added README with an overview of the sub-projects. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/b19519507:26
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added README with an overview of the sub-projects. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/ba891c807:26
wpwrakbetter :)07:26
wpwrakduh. twice ?07:26
wolfspraulwpwrak: did you commit twice?07:42
wpwrakyeah, somehow the first version and an update each got a commit. not sure how i did that :)07:44
wolfspraulok, nothing wrong with the server, good07:44
wolfspraulI cc'ed you on that 'mystery' voltage change we saw with a part07:44
wolfspraulasking whether something is printed on it, but my guess would be no07:45
wpwrakthat would be highly unusual, unless it's really just a specification change07:46
wolfspraulit's an IR receiver module07:47
wolfspraulnew: http://www.vishay.com/docs/82090/tsop48xx.pdf07:47
wpwraki.e., if the part was always good for lower voltages but they weren't confident about it, didn't know, or had simply mis-printed it in the spec07:47
wolfspraulold: http://www.innovativeelectronics.com/innovative_electronics/download_files/datashet/TSOP48XX.pdf07:47
wpwrakwow ! 5 years apart !07:48
wpwraka part name that begins with "TSOP" is quite clever ;-))07:49
wpwrakno indication of the a different silicon revision. maybe ask them if the old parts also conform to these specs and if not, how they suggest to tell them apart ?07:55
wpwrakof course, if they really messed up and it's impossible, then you'd just have to use the worst-case characteristics. or just avoid the part :)07:56
wpwrak(this is not exactly an exotic type of device)07:56
wolfspraulwell let's see07:58
wolfspraulon the first run of 6 Milkymist One, that part was failing and we didn't know why07:58
wolfspraulnow we have a clue, will do some tests (we kept all parts), and soon we know more07:58
wolfspraulI'm just presenting you this as a real world example, something a bom system should be flexible enough to handle, all the way from annotated kicad files to the shopping lists at the end07:59
wolfspraulwell, if not it's also not the end of the world, but it means that additional manual information needs to be passed around boom07:59
wolfspraulI asked on the list whether anything is printed on the module to tell the two versions apart08:00
wolfspraulbut somehow looking at the picture in the datasheet I doubt it08:00
wolfspraulwe'll see08:00
wolfspraulif you think about it more generally, you realize that there is an almost infinite list of 'tech specs' a part can be associated with.08:01
wolfsprauland the decision whether to communicate a change and in which way is always a manual decision. and in some cases the decision of the manufacturer may not be compatible with the assumptions your design makes.08:01
wpwraksure. there can always be parts you can't use just because the manufacturer is unreliable08:02
wolfspraulthat's an extreme solution of the problem and may just not be the best/smartest08:03
wpwrakwell, if you can educate the manufacturer ... ;-)08:03
wolfspraulit is possible that all participants (manufacturer, distributor, user of the component) know well what they have or need, but there may be a communication breakdown08:03
wolfspraulfor this part, for example, I think once we understand this whole thing, we will have no problem sourcing the 'new' version of the module08:04
wpwraksure. if it's a simple mistake there can be a chance to fix it.08:04
wolfspraulit's just an additional piece of information we need to pass along with the part, when we order, etc.08:04
wolfspraulno. when we order from anybody, we need to pass the following information along:08:04
wolfspraul"unless you know this part is from the newer 2.7V series, we don't want it. we will return it."08:05
wolfspraulthis will work beautifully, they will either reject this part because they don't know about this case or which part they have, or because they know they have the wrong one, or they will know they have the right one and sell to you08:06
wolfspraulremember it is in everybody's interest to keep business smooth, no returns, no trouble, etc.08:06
wolfspraula small mistake in sourcing can cost a lot and ruin the entire relationship with that sourcing partner08:07
wpwrakor they'll just be optimistic and sell it anyway. after all, it's prepaid ;-)08:07
wolfspraulso it is quite common in such cases for them to reject certain parts, because they believe they cannot really get you exactly what you need08:07
wolfspraulno no08:07
wolfspraulit's the other way round08:07
wolfspraulthey rather reject a part too much than one too little08:07
wolfsprauleverybody knows what a bad part in a real run means08:07
wolfsprauland what consequences it has for the sourcing people08:08
wpwrakare those pary brokers that careful ? for me, they look like a totally anonymous mass. minimum visible infrastructure, etc.08:08
wolfspraulin the current boom, I wouldn't know how to pass such an additional message through08:08
wolfspraulthere are .dsc files but they are for the inventory08:08
wolfspraulwill prettyorder mix any free-form text field from the bom into the order?08:09
wpwrakin boom, you can identify parts in two ways: by characteristics or by part number08:09
wpwrakprettyorder will just the the description you give it08:09
wolfspraulyes but let's say I want to pass a field from the bom all the way into the order08:09
wolfspraulI think in such a case that's the only way to not have the message get lost08:10
wpwrakyou'd have to express this in the part number08:10
wpwrakif you've obtained an assurance from a distributor, you could define that one as an equivalence08:10
wpwrake.g., call it QIHW TSOP4830-2.7V08:11
wolfsprauland then an equivalence?08:11
wpwrakthen if you find a shop that guarantees you that all the TSOP4840 you order from them are good, then you define SHOP THEIR_NUMBER as an equivalence to your part08:11
wolfspraulwhere would the text fields prettyorder uses come from?08:12
wpwrakwhat you can't do is define yours as equivalent to Vishay's, becuase they're not08:12
wpwrakyou could have your own .dsc file that describes the part08:12
wolfspraularen't the .dsc files meant to go with distributor inventories?08:12
wolfspraulyes but I'm not ordering from myself08:12
wpwrakthey can come from anywhere :)08:12
wolfspraulso at some point my order will just list some distributor namespace + part number08:12
wolfsprauland at that moment, in that line, the 2.7V info is lost08:13
wolfspraulof course, it was there before08:13
wolfspraulthat's why that namespace + part number was chosen08:13
wolfspraulbut maybe it would help to pass a free-form text field in here?08:13
wpwrakthe 2.7 V info isn't anything special to lose08:14
wpwrakthere's a lot of information you lose in all the processes08:14
wpwrake.g., digi-key's description doens't include the temperature coefficient08:14
wpwraktheir part numbers are often just sequential numbers. no way to translate them to any specific characteristics. you can't even tell what sort of thing a, say, 311-2783-ND it is.08:15
wpwrakhah, that one doesn't exist :)08:16
wpwraki was trying to guess a capacitor or resistor number :)08:16
wolfspraulI can imagine digi-key wants to retain the flexibility to continue to use old or issue new part numbers at a time of their choosing.08:16
wpwrakdigi-key's part numbers don't necessarily have anything to do with vendor part numbers. i suppose there may be cases where you have two or more digi-key PNs for the same vendor PN.08:17
wolfspraulyes makes sense to me08:17
wpwrakdigi-key's vendor PNs are also a little unreliable. they often put the order code they used, which may not a published code.08:17
wolfspraullike I said, that's probably one important way they believe they create value for their customers08:17
wpwraki think it's just a basic way of maintaining sanity :) and keeping short PNs08:18
wpwrakmy approach is to just take whatever the respective source throws at me and prefix it with a name space. but that can lead to pretty long names.08:19
wpwrakof course, i don't need to print bar codes for them either ;-)08:19
wolfsprauland you are not trying to create certain guaranteed 'service levels' for your customer who buy from you08:19
wolfspraulonce you would start reselling I believe over time you would accumulate a lot of reasons why you want to make your own numbers08:20
wpwrakwell, i'm agnostic to the 'service level" you want to build on top of everthing :)08:20
wpwrakthere's been a discussion about having your own part numbers on kicad-devel08:21
wpwrakit's not a stupid idea08:21
wolfspraulisn't that what you are doing with the way boom uses custom fields already?08:22
wpwrakfor BOOM itself, it doesn't matter. it can handle any degree of separation. if each engineer has a PN scheme for every day of the week, the EE department has its own set, sourcing another, etc., BOOM will handle it as long as you provide a suitable rosetta stone08:22
wpwrakyou mean the user-defined fields in schematics ?08:22
wolfspraulyes, and the quite flexible processing of all fields in general08:22
wolfspraulreference, value, footprint, user fields08:23
wolfspraulessentially this makes it possible to put any string anywhere and have it picked up by boom08:23
wpwrakyes, you could do fairly crazy things. there are a few limitations, though08:24
wpwrakfor example, you can't currently do a part number search on anything but the value field08:25
kyakxiangfu_: hi, are you there?08:26
xiangfu_kyak: ys08:26
wpwrakwhat you can do is modify the value field for a the 2nd try. (there's a first try before substitutions and a 2nd try after)08:26
kyakxiangfu_: i saw you added some packages to config-full08:27
wpwrakwolfspraul: it works as follows: first, bom2part tries to find a part whose part-number matches exactly what you put into the value field. (the namespace is ignored in this case. this is admittedly a bit dangerous.)08:28
kyaki have some concerns.. for example, ben-cyrillic. It enables users to switch keyboard layout to cyrillic by pressing the "Qi" button08:28
xiangfu_kyak: yes. but I am not test yet. my clean build will start four hours later. then I can check the result tomorrow.08:28
wpwrakwolfspraul: if it finds something, it uses that part (and its equivalences). no further questions asked.08:29
xiangfu_kyak: I am not try ben-cyrillic yet. I just add those new packages today.08:29
wpwrakwolfspraul: if not, it processes the substitutions (.sub). then it tries a lookup with the value field after substitutions (which may or may not have altered the value)08:29
wpwrakwolfspraul: if it still doesn't have anything, it looks for a characteristics match08:30
kyakxiangfu_: my understanding is, if they are included in config-full, they will be included in image by default on the next build...?08:30
xiangfu_kyak: yes.08:30
kyakso that's the point, ben-cyrillic should not be in default image08:31
kyakit must be provided as package08:31
wolfspraulwpwrak: I have a KiCad question, if you look here http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/pdf_usb_jtag.pdf08:31
wolfspraulin the top left there is a component with 6 pins08:32
wolfspraulthe component itself is missing08:32
wolfspraulthe second from top pin on the left side ends in a symbol08:32
wolfspraulis this GND?08:33
wpwrakyes, that's GND08:33
wolfspraulI am now trying to cleanup the project, and in my current local version, that symbol won't show, it just ends in ??08:33
wolfspraulwhich library is this coming from?08:33
wpwrakthe GND symbol doesn't show ?08:33
xiangfu_kyak: ok. it's a package of some scripts files. seems russian relationships.08:34
wolfspraulI have removed all system libraries, and Yanjun Luo made some modifications into system libs that I now have in the local tree08:34
xiangfu_kyak: ok. I will remove it from config.full_system.08:34
wolfspraulactually, I can just commit it where it is now08:34
wpwrakit comes from "power". maybe if you don't have any of the default libs installed, then you don't have it08:34
wolfspraulbut I'm hesitating to stress test the robustness of schhist08:34
xiangfu_btw. I added the gcc-mips to config.full_system.08:35
xiangfu_kyak: thanks :)08:35
kyakxiangfu_: might want to add ben-cyrillic as module ?08:35
wpwrakafik, fidelio (sp?) has the default libs, so it should show there08:35
kyakxiangfu_: so it would build as package, but not included in image..08:35
wolfspraulunless I made a mistake in my new KiCad package, I should have it too08:35
wolfspraulbut probably a mistake in the project files08:36
wolfspraulI think I just commit08:36
wolfspraulI trust schhist08:36
wpwrakwolfspraul: click on the 4th icon on the right side (circle and arrow)08:36
wpwrakwolfspraul: aka "Place a power port"08:36
wolfsprauland then?08:37
kyakxiangfu_: i also noticed you included ghostscript, but in this way you should better include fbi and fbgs, i liked fbi as image viewer a lot and fbgs is a "poor man pdf renderer" for SDL, using ghostscript and fbi08:37
wpwrakwolfspraul: then click somewhere on the schematic. a dialog opns.click on list all. do you get something ?08:37
wolfspraulit asks me for a name08:37
wolfspraullist all shows 6 libs08:37
wolfspraulexactly the ones that I left08:37
wolfspraullet me try to add the system power lib back in08:38
wpwrakhuh ? list all should show parts, no libs08:38
kyak(i think if we were physically in one room right now it would've been noisy: )08:38
wpwrakperhaps you removed "power" then ?08:38
wolfspraulyes sure08:38
wolfspraulI did08:38
wpwrakhah ! :-)08:38
xiangfu_kyak: ok. thanks, working on that.08:39
wolfspraulmuch less ??08:40
wolfspraulonly one left08:40
kyakxiangfu_: ok, and the last concern: i'm afraid gcc-mips and ghostscript might not fit together in rootfs :) they occupy around 80 Mb together; i never tested myself with full image as i have some unneeded (for me) packages stripped off08:40
wolfspraulif I have a ?? in eeschema, how can I tell what it is?08:41
kyakxiangfu_: btw, what would happen with reflash_ben.sh if you supply an oversized rootfs?08:41
wolfspraulI tried all sorts of ways to select it or click on it, but only comparing with the .pdf from schhist gave me a clue08:41
wpwrakyeah, i was about to write "click on it". but then i realize dthat it isn't so easy ;-)08:41
xiangfu_kyak: then we have a reason to increase the rootfs partition :). (let's see what is the size of a clean build )08:42
wpwrakah, double-click it ;-)08:42
wpwrakthen it will tell you what it is inthe "chip name" field08:42
kyakxiangfu_: so, that's all, thank you! :)08:42
xiangfu_kyak: the reflash_ben.sh will overwrite the data partition. "usbboot" doesn't check the rootfs size and it don't know the nand partition.08:42
wpwraknot sure if this helps much in this case, though :)08:43
wpwrakwell, if you have only one ?? left, then you found a way to get the other missing bits ...08:44
kyakxiangfu_: wow.. i will pay attention to image size from now on.. don't want to loose my data08:44
xiangfu_kyak: I guess if flash the oversized the rootfs file. the rootfs still can build. because when we build the rootfs.ubi we set the ubi max block to 4096.(which is 2G file)  (but it's just a guess not well test)08:44
wpwraki get about 8 ??s08:44
kyakxiangfu_: i see08:45
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: moved some components and modules to the right place http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/fb677cc08:45
wolfspraulI just pushed it, done.08:45
wolfspraulnow I go from there. my faith in schhist is big.08:45
wolfspraulin terms of file locations, I use ben-wpan as my gold standard08:46
wolfspraulin components, we now have some redundancy with KiCad system libs, conn, device, interface. I will try to remove everything that is also in the system libs.08:47
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu:  - build ben-cyrillic as package http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5fd714408:48
wolfspraulI can't find this U1/93C46 anywhere, maybe it's still missing entirely.08:48
wpwrakwolfspraul: (std comps) i would go the other way. if there's a local override, consider it a candidate for kicad-libs08:51
wpwrakwolfspraul: that is, find out why there's an override. some of the symbols in the base libs aren't very good or consistent08:51
wpwrakwolfspraul: e.g., many of the power labels have text that's very small in relation to the rest. and it even differs among labels.08:52
wpwrak(the text size)08:52
wpwrakargh. local libs that use the same name as system libs. that's evil :)08:54
wpwrakisn't there enough pain and suffering in the world already ? :)08:55
wolfspraulhe :-)08:57
wolfspraulmaybe I should have renamed them first08:57
wolfspraulschhist hasn't been stress tested enough, so that will surely come next08:57
wolfspraulfirst I want to delete all symbols from those libs that aren't used in the project at all, and only there because they were added to a system lib08:58
wpwraki don't think it'll even notice :) it's more something that confuses the user08:58
wolfspraulnot much longer08:58
wolfspraulno worries08:58
wolfsprauldo you have any idea about this 93C46 ?08:59
wolfspraulmaybe I need to ask Yanjun Luo about it08:59
wolfspraulany suggestion for the name of the library I should move this to?08:59
wolfspraulthe conn/device/interface stuff09:00
wpwrak93c46.lib ? :)09:00
wolfspraulhuh that number is the name of a .lib file?09:00
wpwraknow i see why the "device" lib is called "device". oh my. a copy of the base lib. some people have no shame :)09:00
wpwrak(number) i would just use one .lib file for each symbol09:01
wpwrakthat's what will probably happen in kicad anyway. those "libs" as aggregates make no sense at all09:01
wolfspraulok, I first need to distill those 3 libs to the real diff09:01
wolfspraulthanks, that is helpful to know09:02
wpwrakwell, unless you port it to cp/m for ms-dos 1.0, which don't have subdirectories :)09:02
wpwrak(probably happen) at least the people doing the file format changes talked about it. i very much hope they don't change their mind :)09:03
wpwrakalready from a version control/joint editing point of view, those aggregates are evil09:03
wpwraklet's say you and someone else each add one unrelated component to device.lib09:04
wpwraknow you get a merge conflict because the two of you changed the same file. and if you're unlucky, it's a conflict that can't be auto-resolved.09:04
wpwrakbonus points if there's more than one component on each side that got added. now the conflict will be a pretty deep mess to edit :)09:05
wpwrakyou'll have the same on the modules side, particularly if you use fped. fped won't even pretent to help you put more than one footprint in a single .mod file :)09:08
wpwrakwell, that's actually not true09:09
wpwrakit does, when one .fpd generates multiple footprints.09:09
wpwraksomething to fix in the future :)09:09
wolfspraulwpwrak: beautiful! schhist picked it up just fine! :-)09:20
wpwrakas it should :)09:25
wolfspraulwpwrak: would you say that symbols defined in a project can override system symbols (same name), or should they not do this?09:34
wpwrakthey can (e.g., for R, C, and such, it would make sense). but then better don't include the system lib that has them too.09:36
wpwraki.e., i don't know if kicad implements any consistent priority for such cases09:36
wolfspraulok that's clear (and scary)09:36
kristianpaulwolfspraul: about the chat realated to add a uSD card plus adapter to the Ben i tought it because i think seems to be the easiest way to both provide updates to the nanonote and also carry personal data like music, pics, etcs..09:58
wolfspraulsure understood09:59
wpwrakuSD card + adapter = ?09:59
wolfspraulmaybe next run, I have to sell those 1000 first :-)09:59
wolfspraula think a second battery is even higher priority09:59
wpwrakaah, in the box. i see.09:59
kristianpaulwpwrak: yup09:59
wpwrakuSD cards are easy to get almost everywhere :)09:59
kristianpaulwolfspraul: sure when posible09:59
kristianpaulwpwrak: yes09:59
wpwrakand their value drops rapidly. not a good thing to stock. so this would only make sense if sharism could get a better deal than the local retailers. (taking into account overhead, taxes, etc.)10:00
kristianpaulgood point10:01
wpwraks/better/much better/10:01
wolfspraulwpwrak: there is a point10:01
wolfspraulright now we have almost no distributors10:02
wolfspraulso we also have no distributors that complain that they cannot sell totally overpriced accessories10:02
wolfspraulso there is actually an opportunity to really add meaningful accessories10:03
kristianpaulwell maybe a wikipage that suguesst the uSD10:03
wolfspraulto the Ben, also Milkymist or other products in the future10:03
wolfsprauland I can source these things at really good prices.10:03
wolfspraullike I said, I would have _almost_ included a second battery in the second batch10:03
wolfspraulonly the delay in production run made me not to10:03
wolfspraulfor the microSD card, even USB reader, why not10:03
wolfspraulalthough one problem is that our current box is already very full10:03
wolfspraulthe second battery would barely fit10:04
wolfspraulmicroSD is small, maybe a very small USB reader...10:04
wolfspraulbut the truth is also: if I one day have more active distributors somewhere, and they ask me to remove accessories to help them, I would do it10:04
wolfspraulthey are my customrs10:04
wolfspraulkeep in mind10:04
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: Removed system .dcm files that had no original content. http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/d70f2ba10:08
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: trying to remove some system symbols, see whether schhist shows me any diff... http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/7290c8910:08
wpwrakhmm, not having .dcms can give you warnings10:09
wpwraklekernel: seems that you'll have to ask vishay for clarification whether these parts are actually different and how to tell them apart ...10:21
wpwrakit's a little odd that they don't mention the marking in the data sheet. they do that for other components.10:22
wpwrakwell, i've already noticed that they're not the most thorough company when it comes to documentation. e.g., the si1040x has a pin cleverly marked "ON/OFF" :)10:25
wpwrak(without other attributes, such as an overline anywhere, or such)10:26
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: removed unneeded interface library http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/2f3d6d410:26
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: partial cleanup of device.lib http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/5f2947c10:26
lekernelindeed :)10:27
lekernelbtw what is C1 for in that datasheet?10:27
wpwrakthere are more goodies there :) e.g., a pin names "R1, C1" is quite a rarity, too.10:27
lekernelnormally you want the fastest switch times for the power mosfet so it doesn't dissipate when switching10:27
lekernelnot a RC charge10:28
wpwrakand then, inthe "typical application circuit", there's one pin that has a dual identity10:28
lekernelwpwrak, yeah, what is C1 for in that typical application circuit?10:28
wpwrakcould it be slew control ?10:28
lekernelsounds like it, but it makes the power mosfet dissipate10:29
wpwraki guess there's no much of a choice if you need slew control ?10:29
wpwrakyeah, says "adjustable slew-rate"10:29
lekernelwell it's a simple and stupid solution10:30
lekerneldepending on the application it can be good10:30
wpwraki think "simple" is the idea here :)10:30
wpwrakfor most things, you probably don't care. typical application would be a power switch. so you turn the whatever on and then it stays on for a good while.10:31
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: switched to system device lib http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/2367e8c10:41
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: switched to system conn library http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/2b005fd10:41
wolfspraulwpwrak: hmm, now it gets harder. after some cleanup I ran an ERC test, got 5 errors. unconnected pins...10:46
wolfspraulneed to see whether that looked better before10:47
wolfspraulthen I tried to generate a netlist, but it's quite different from the one that is in git10:47
wolfspraulnow, the one that is in git may have been generated with an older version of the schematics anyway, so comparing with that may be useless. maybe the .net in git should just be deleted.10:48
wolfspraulbut I'm not sure10:48
wpwrakthe netlist doesn't affect the ERC. only the DRC.10:48
wpwrakah ... overlooked one message10:49
wpwrak(netlist very different) hard to tell. these files generally don't diff nicely.10:49
wolfspraulone of my cleanup steps triggered a schhist diff10:49
wpwrakthere are also a lot of ad hoc names that get assigned. not sure where they come from. could be random() ;-)10:49
wolfspraultwo lines are gone, I think that looked better before. so maybe another system lib improvement I accidentally reverted.10:50
wolfspraulcan you take a look at the schhist output?10:50
wpwrakyour crystal is different10:51
wpwrakthe original has four pins, the new one only two10:51
wpwraki guess someone did the lazy thing and just edited the CRYSTAL from the default libs.10:51
wpwrakif the goal was to create confusion, i think this was successful ;-)10:52
wpwrakbtw, let's see what schhist does if the whole project directory disappears :)10:54
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Renamed hw/ to c2usb/, to make room for other hardware. http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/8eaef6b10:54
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: c2usb/c2usb.sch: mark design as suspended, due to FT232 being unfit for project http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/07e966710:54
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: renamed CRYSTAL symbol away from system library, deleted old netlist http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/bbf48da10:55
wolfspraulwpwrak: for schematics, what do you think in terms of attribution or dates/versioning in them?10:58
wolfspraulshould it say the project name? license? author? date/version? only on the first page or on each page?10:59
wolfspraulfor Milkymist we have a pretty clean block of information, see http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/hardware/milkymist_one/sch/20100424/MilkymistOne_draft2.pdf11:00
wolfspraulbut it's a lot of text, and sometimes hard to maintain11:00
wolfspraulthe cc logo is nice of course...11:01
wpwrakyou can auto-export the title just to the other sheets11:02
wpwraki keep the text block relatively simple. but you can probably do quite fancy things. project url could be nice.11:03
wolfspraulin Milkymist we have, on each sheet:11:03
wolfspraul1. sheet title11:03
wolfspraul2. calendar date11:04
wolfspraul3. feedback email address11:04
wolfspraul4. copyright (author)11:04
wolfspraul5. license11:04
wolfspraul6. cc logo11:04
wolfspraulso it sounds like you think some text on each sheet is ok11:05
wpwrakkicad does take care of the date for you, for better or worse. you get to pick your own version, though11:05
wolfspraulwell I would just leave the version empty, date is better11:05
wolfspraulseems you don't have strong preferences one way or the other11:06
wpwrakyou may need both. the version is where you tell when to increment11:06
wpwrakinstead of mail and license, i'd just use a url11:06
wolfspraulit's probably also better if you write documentation, and people want to know whether the file they are looking at matches the documentation they are reading11:06
wolfspraulalso no copyright (author)11:07
wolfsprauljust "project homepage"?11:07
wpwrakbut i have no strong opinion on the amount of text, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the drawing ...11:07
wolfsprauloh sure same here, totally relaxed. I just try to ping your brain whether you have any strong feelings on it.11:07
wolfspraulI like the cc logo.11:07
wpwrakkicad has an "author" field. so there's your copyright holder (more or less)11:08
wolfspraulgives a quick assurance that it is a free design11:08
wpwrakthe logo is nice but probably hard to do ;-)11:08
wolfspraulauthor could just say 'multiple' (not to discredit anyone, just in case the work is indeed the work of multiple people), then the project URL could give more info11:09
wolfspraulI mean, you can defer a lot of things to the project URL, if you want to11:09
wpwrak(defer) that's the idea :)11:09
lekernelwolfspraul, speaking about that milkymist schematics, could you make again the same pdf from the current (rc2) altium files?11:10
wpwrakif the information you need is small, just put it all there. if not, link to all the non-essential bits. (and hope wolfgang pays his hosting bills ;-)11:10
lekernelso we can publish it11:10
wpwrakah ... you didn't have f32xbase/hw/ in schist ... so no torture-test then :)11:13
wolfspraulI left your projects the way they were in the demo Makefile, only added the missing projects.11:15
wolfspraulI think I finished the first round of mmone-jtag-serial cleanup, tomorrow I hope to start boomifying a little :-)11:16
wpwrak(boomify) kewl11:17
wolfspraulstill need to find one missing symbol in the schematics, and then at some point see whether I can generate gerbers that are at least close to what is committed already. maybe also try to fpedize the one module it has there.11:17
wpwrak(schhist projects) that one was added later. guess you missed it. anyway, now it's in the freezer for a while.11:17
wpwrakhaving something that goes to real production fped'ized would be great.11:18
wpwrakideally, something small :)11:18
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: found 93C46 in usb_jtag-cache.lib, put it in a proper place http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/916f7fd11:25
wolfspraulwpwrak: I'm all for experiments, if that helps you I'll do it just for that.11:26
wolfspraulonly I need to navigate myself through all these many unknowns without a total disaster, so give me some time.11:26
wpwrakcongratulations on finding 93C46 ! ;-)))11:35
Action: wpwrak hands wolfgang the Amulet of the KiCad Janitor (+5 to Serendipity)11:37
kyaki'm wondering why red arrow+backspace is not acting as Delete, as it should...12:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Moved pads.fpd (from f32xbase/c2usb and ben-wpan) here. http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/a97325c12:57
wpwrakfinally, i built the perfectly shaped micro-SD board. no lateral movement. clicks in and out perfectly :)19:12
wpwraknow, igor, bring me some more bodies !19:13
tuxbrainpics pics pics19:13
wpwraktuxbrain: so far it's just the copper-clad pcb. still need to etch something on it. (it'll be a simpler version of wolfgang's "street job")19:14
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Removed local copy of pads.fpd from c2usb http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/7829d4d19:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: c2ben/: initial commit of passive C2 adapter board for the Ben's uSD slot. http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/c1935d519:17
wpwrakbefore etching them, i'll cut a few boards. then i can process the whole batch at once.19:18
arquebushello anyone here?20:19
wpwrakwolfspraul: want a fun read about KiCad and what would be nice to have for state of the art industrial use ? http://www.openss7.org/docs/NOTES.pdf21:08
wolfsprauloh wow21:15
wolfspraulwhat is that? who will do all this?21:15
wpwrakthe author of that encyclopedia seems to be working on some major patches ... that may or may not make it into kicad in the end.21:17
wolfspraulwell let's see21:20
wolfspraulin my experience the people that are making the best plans are not always the ones making the best implementations, and vice versa21:20
wolfspraulbut it looks impressive, as you said like an encyclopedia21:20
kristianpaul"Real men lay out their own boards: wimps use autorouters." ..21:23
wpwrakhe wrote that his branch is here: lp:~bidulock/kicad/kicad-brian21:23
wpwrakkristianpaul: he's not so wrong about that :) well, a semi-automatic can be nice.21:24
wpwraksemi-automatic router21:24
kristianpaulthat really stop me to use kicad for routing stuff like fpga21:27
kristianpauli really admire andres work around xue21:27
wpwrakyeah, xue looks pretty nice21:33
kristianpaulaha !21:51
kristianpaula missing simbolic link in /etc/rc.d avoid me to mount at startup the data partition and start gmenu2x !21:52
kristianpaulnow is this openwrt fault...21:52
kristianpaulhow the rc.d is updated21:53
kristianpaulrafa: there?21:54
qwebirc32806Hello Everybody21:55
qwebirc32806I really want to know if anyone... that is anyone.. has witness, or themselves flashed Debian to an SD card for the NN21:57
qwebirc32806there is like 50 ppl in here, and there has to be atleast one21:57
qwebirc32806Well it atleast feels like 5021:58
qwebirc32806Well I guess that is a negative on being able to flash Debian to an SD card for the Nanonote21:59
kristianpaulhave u look at this http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Debian ?21:59
qwebirc32806MILLIONs of times I have looked at that22:00
kristianpauli tried debian onces, yes it booted, just was too slow then i moved to jlime :)22:00
qwebirc32806When I put my card into the NN, and hold down M while powering it on, it gave me an error that it could not find a certain file22:01
qwebirc32806Kristianpaul: did you use the method of putting debian on the SD card, or did you use the other method?22:01
qwebirc32806yes UImage22:02
kristianpaulsd card22:02
kristianpaulis your uboot updated to the last version?22:02
qwebirc32806how big was your card22:02
qwebirc32806yes, I believe so, but how would I check it22:02
wolfspraulnebajoth: you there?22:03
qwebirc32806I am using 4GB at the moment22:03
kristianpaulwpwrak: in bbl.c what you have in mind with #defineGROUP_SEL11 but you never used in the rest of the code22:06
wpwrakkristianpaul: ah, right. it's implicitly included in LED_MASK22:10
wpwrakkristianpaul: the idea is to set everything but the one LED pair i want to illuminate to the same level22:11
kristianpaulahh just one22:11
kristianpauli see22:11
kristianpaulwell i have two so no bother ;)22:11
qwebirc32806kristianpaul:  hey when I execute this line wget http://mister-muffin.de/nanonote/debian-sid-mipsel.tar.lzma, I get this message at the end of the utarring: tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors22:13
kristianpaulno idea.. why no try download again22:13
kristianpaulwpwrak: are you aware of a C tuturial written for textinfo?22:14
qwebirc32806what do you think I am doing wrong, keep in mind I am using a 4GB card22:14
kristianpauli think 4GB are support22:14
qwebirc32806oh no, I am sorry that is the wrong line22:14
qwebirc32806I meant this line tar xvf debian-sid-mipsel.tar.lzma -C /PATH/TO/YOUR/SDCARD/22:14
kristianpaulbut i suguest you use the reflash script in order update your Ben to last uboot just in case22:14
kristianpaulqwebirc32806: doing as root?22:15
qwebirc32806that was what I was going to say next,22:15
qwebirc32806when I do sudo I do not get the message22:15
kristianpaulsure  you typed well?22:15
qwebirc32806matter of fact I just did this line, and did not get the message: sudo tar xvf debian-sid-mipsel.tar.lzma -C /media/sdb122:17
qwebirc32806should I move on22:17
qwebirc32806to the next step22:17
wpwrakkristianpaul: a tutorial for the C language in texinfo ? sounds very specific :-) and no, no idea :)22:17
kristianpaulhehe ok22:17
kristianpauli just want read it on the Ben but pdf is not what looks the best to22:18
kristianpauli'm off bed tomorow to solder some leds and try get some data :)22:20
wpwrakkristianpaul: i'd recommend good old dead trees for this type of reading :)22:24
kristianpaulcomments are inresting22:32
wpwrakFSF getting more flak ? :)22:33
kristianpaulresuming most people things cc(creative commons) is Non-comercial acording to this blog entry22:34
wpwrakah yes. CC-NC. indeed, idiocy22:34
wpwraknow, i should get a nastygram for posting to the milkymist list ...22:36
wolfsprauldid anybody find any nc or nd stuff?22:42
wolfspraulI just need the bottom line, if it's within reach of my admin powers it's gone... :-)22:42
wolfspraulcall me the nc-nd-terminator22:43
qwebirc32806WOOOOOW SUCCESS!22:45
qwebirc328064GB booted Debian off the SD card22:46
qwebirc32806now to figure out how to boot the gui22:46
qwebirc32806startx does not work22:46
qwebirc32806*tears*    I would just like to thank, all of the people who have ....22:47
qwebirc32806... Helped me get this far22:47
qwebirc32806Love the CL community22:48
wolfspraulkristianpaul: thanks for the link22:48
wpwrakkristianpaul: wolfgang just informed me that qihw will abandon GPLv2/3, CC-BY-SA or any other CC-*, and instead use exclusively ..22:52
wpwrakkristianpaul: http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/22:52
kristianpaulwhut? ;S22:53
kristianpaulwpwrak: when have some free time http://oz9aec.net/index.php/gnu-radio/gnu-radio-blog/350-noaa-weather-satellite-reception-with-gnu-radio-and-usrp23:11
wpwrakhmm, weather images23:15
wpwraki'd be much more interested in those transmissions out of area 52 ...23:15
qi-bot[commit] werner: fix wrong bold content in manual page fped.1 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/dd255ef23:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: Merge branch 'master' into debian http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/8b991b423:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update take svn rev: 5983 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/aa53ed723:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: remove the Build-Depends ttf-liberation http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/900b10123:22
qi-bot[commit] werner: fped/Makefile: added LDFLAGS (currently empty) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/feae08f23:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: Merge branch 'master' into debian http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/5fe30c623:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update to svn rev 5986 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/c66a64823:22
qi-bot[commit] werner: fix wrong bold content in manual page fped.1 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/dd255ef23:22
qi-bot[commit] werner: fped/Makefile: added LDFLAGS (currently empty) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/feae08f23:22
--- Thu Oct 21 201000:00

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