| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: http://lwn.net/Articles/409965/ | 00:44 |
|---|---|---|
| wolfspraul | the comments are encouraging, encouraging to see how many people think themselves and see the exact same weirdness we discussed earlier | 00:44 |
| wolfspraul | we are on the right track... | 00:45 |
| wolfspraul | "So a tivo that required you to send it in to the factory to change the linux install on it would not require you to provide the linux source code?" | 00:45 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 00:46 |
| wolfspraul | "So is the FSF the "Free high-level software foundation" now?" | 00:49 |
| wolfspraul | "It definitely looks to me as if they're applying different standards to different kinds of software, without good reason." | 00:49 |
| wolfspraul | and so on | 00:49 |
| wolfspraul | I'm thinking about moving ben-wpan and the sige gps work to the 12/1 community news | 01:43 |
| wolfspraul | http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2010-11-01 | 01:43 |
| wolfspraul | 11/1 is overloaded and those two should still be very much fresh and new one month later | 01:44 |
| wolfspraul | if there are objections, let me know... | 01:44 |
| wpwrak | fine with me. though i still think you could conveniently make a 11/18 and still have material for 12/1 :) | 01:44 |
| wpwrak | err .. 10/18 and 11/1, of course | 01:45 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: quick question about Ornotermes work and the ben-blinkenlights KiCad project | 01:47 |
| wolfspraul | which was first? how do they relate to each other? | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | Ornoterms has an illustrated diy-guide with great pictures he took himself | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | that much is clear | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | David used the software in ben-blinkenlights in the video he uploaded | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | that's also clear | 01:49 |
| wolfspraul | (I think) | 01:49 |
| wolfspraul | but what about the KiCad files in ben-blinkenlights? they were just added as documentation? is there a layout too? | 01:49 |
| wpwrak | Ornitermes was first with idea and design | 01:49 |
| wolfspraul | (not that there is much to layout, I'm just trying to credit people correctly) | 01:49 |
| wpwrak | i then redid everything in kicad and had the first things actually running :) | 01:50 |
| wpwrak | layout: you mean bbl.brd ? | 01:50 |
| wolfspraul | so is this accurate: Ornotermes and Werner built an SDIO breakout board, Ornoterms published a great illustrated DIY guide, and Werner uploaded KiCad files and demo software to the projects server. | 01:51 |
| wolfspraul | maybe I'll shorten a bit but are the facts accurate? | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | 'SDIO breakout cable' is better maybe... | 01:52 |
| wpwrak | hmm s/uploaded/made/ | 01:53 |
| wpwrak | i did just the blinkenlights board (and then reused the design in atusd) | 01:53 |
| wpwrak | Ornotermes made a breakout cable | 01:54 |
| wpwrak | i would also give him (solo) credit for the idea | 01:54 |
| wpwrak | e.g., something like: Ornotermes had the idea to use the uSD slot for a breakout board. he and werner then built [...] | 01:55 |
| wolfspraul | great, thanks | 01:59 |
| qwebirc10130 | i am writing one routine to accept some input from the user using getch() | 04:38 |
| qwebirc10130 | but i need to allow backspace key also in it | 04:38 |
| qwebirc10130 | how can I do it , plz help | 04:39 |
| kyak | i think you need to use readline library, but i might be mistaken | 04:52 |
| qwebirc10130 | anybody who can answer my query | 05:16 |
| xiangfu | qwebirc10130: why your getch() cann't get the KEY_BACKSPACE ?, it's should read KEY_BACKSPACE as well. | 05:36 |
| qwebirc10130 | hi xiangfu | 07:02 |
| qwebirc10130 | getch() doesnt work in linux | 07:03 |
| qwebirc10130 | s i have used getchar with some terminal settings | 07:03 |
| kristianpaul | "if I have to spend an hour using the computer to change the code that is OK, but if I have to spend ten minutes using the soldering iron to achieve the same goal, that's not OK." he | 07:06 |
| kristianpaul | Well solder not soo much but at least you he should be able to plug JTAG cable or soemthing, wich came to the point of the "hiden" sofware in lockware | 07:09 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: and the guy before that is even wrong. | 07:14 |
| wolfspraul | he thinks if you have to send it back to the factory, where the factory uses its secret software for updates, that's not what the fsf has in mind. | 07:15 |
| wolfspraul | but unfortunately, and sadly, that is in fact what the fsf has in mind. | 07:15 |
| wolfspraul | this will only get worse the more the fsf talks about it, so let's hope this whole endorsement program dies a silent death :-) for our all good. | 07:17 |
| wolfspraul | otherwise the fsf will ruin some of their hard earned reputation, that's all. | 07:17 |
| methril_work | morning | 07:30 |
| qbject | Morning, all./ | 10:45 |
| mstevens | yo | 10:45 |
| djbclark | qbject: getting batteries China -> US is often hard - but that is a good point, I should ask appropriate people about that, will make a note, thanks! | 13:10 |
| Action: djbclark and wolfspraul seem to be on 180 degree different scheduled :-( | 13:11 | |
| wpwrak | djbclark: hard due to the chinese paperwork, or are there other issues ? | 13:11 |
| djbclark | wpwrak: due to shipping companies not wanting to ship large concentrations of things that could explode a lot. But maybe I'm being silly... Do you remember what type of battery chemistry is in nanonote batteries? | 13:12 |
| wpwrak | djbclark: ah yes, shipping companies may have a word there as well. dunno the chemistry but anything reasonably compact and modern is of the "dangerous" kind | 13:14 |
| djbclark | wpwrak: I recall the Ben Nanonote battery was semi-standard however, so maybe could find US suppier. Or there is sketch remailr in China I can use (but they do not guarantee things will get through). | 13:16 |
| wpwrak | djbclark: found one. says "li-ion". | 13:16 |
| wpwrak | djbclark: this may help: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Compatible_batteries | 13:17 |
| djbclark | wpwrak: yeah that is what I was thinking of. But currently just trying to get to place where we have Ben Nanonote available from freedomincluded.com :-) | 13:19 |
| wpwrak | sure. one step after another :) | 13:20 |
| qbject | djbclark: Thanks for looking into it. Looking forward to getting my BNN #2 from you once they're available. | 13:24 |
| kyak | second Ben? are you going to build a Ben-based supercomputer? :) | 13:25 |
| qbject | someday, perhaps. :) | 13:25 |
| kyak | i have special plans for Ben when Ya gets out | 13:26 |
| kyak | but not before that :) | 13:26 |
| qbject | For now I'm both very attached to having one that works, and very interested in tearing one apart to start designing new housings. | 13:26 |
| kyak | wow.. great plans | 13:27 |
| djbclark | qbject: If you like really really want one now I can set up for payment, but it'd come either with a really-alpha LibreWRT or whatever came on it. | 13:27 |
| djbclark | qbject: Oh, so you'd prefer a broken one? I think someone mentioned having one of those they were willing to donate on the list a while back. | 13:27 |
| qbject | djbclark: Thanks, but I'm still working on getting my milling machine shipped across the country, so I'm not ready just yet. | 13:28 |
| djbclark | qbject: k, ping me when you are :) | 13:28 |
| qbject | Hmm. I'll check the logs. Might be useful... | 13:28 |
| djbclark | qbject: or if not, just ask on the lists, I'm sure someone has managed to drop one from 10' up onto concrete or something by now! | 13:29 |
| djbclark | qbject: Also Sharism might just have rejects that never workd. | 13:29 |
| qbject | djbclark: Thanks for that thought. I've been missing wolfie pretty effectively myself, but I'll chat him up about it if I ever get the chance. | 13:32 |
| Action: djbclark owes him several emails... if only fires would stay put out :-D | 13:33 | |
| qi-bot | [commit] Carlos Camargo: Fixing cai9n loader for lm32 errors http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/43de1a5 | 14:01 |
| kyak | trying to figure out.. why the history is saved to /.ash_history when i'm logged to Ben directly and to ~/.ash_history when i'm logged in via ssh | 15:01 |
| xdpirate | yo, anyone got the link to the newest bootloader/kernel/userland? | 15:03 |
| xdpirate | the openwrt one | 15:03 |
| kyak | xdpirate: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Official_Software_Image#Image_2010-08-15_(testing) | 15:05 |
| wpwrak | kyak: perhaps someone's not setting HOME ? | 15:06 |
| xdpirate | kyak, thanks | 15:06 |
| kyak | there's even this one http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/testing/2010-09-14/ | 15:06 |
| kyak | more recent | 15:06 |
| kyak | wpwrak: i'm cross-checking the "env" output from ssh and tty, the only difference is "SHELL" | 15:07 |
| xdpirate | sweet | 15:07 |
| kyak | in case of ssh, it is /bin/ash, in case of tty it is /bin/sh for some reason | 15:07 |
| kyak | the HOME is the same, though after loging to tty the PWD is set to / | 15:08 |
| kyak | so this is all really strange to me | 15:08 |
| kyak | it looks to me that PWD is inherited from parent process | 15:09 |
| kyak | in case of ssh it is dropbear | 15:09 |
| kyak | while in case of tty it is init | 15:09 |
| kyak | something is really wrong here | 15:09 |
| kyak | ok, problem solved.. i saw there is a HISTFILE env var | 15:17 |
| kyak | so i just set it profile | 15:18 |
| kyak | anyway it is a bug in busybox, it checks the HOME variable before reading /etc/profile | 15:21 |
| wpwrak | kyak: gotta love all those little busybox quirks :) | 15:49 |
| qbject | Jeez. How long does it take to recharge a BNN from dead-flat? | 17:02 |
| qbject | Ah, it must've cycled on when I pulled the battery to see if it was frozen. All better. | 17:09 |
| xdpirate | is it possible to change fonts on the fly in the newest version? | 17:19 |
| xdpirate | nevermind, got it :) | 17:26 |
| xdpirate | do we have gcc in openwrt yet? been away for a couple of months | 17:40 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: Catalog listing and enhanced versions of various BOOM items from ben-wpan/bom. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/c1574ce | 23:05 |
| wpwrak | wolfspraul: you'll like this. i've added a new file type to BOOM. it's even a four-letter one, .catq for catalog queries. | 23:05 |
| wolfspraul | does the system support minimum order amounts for each source? | 23:08 |
| wolfspraul | say "500 USD minimum" when ordering from ABC | 23:08 |
| wpwrak | no, it doesn't know per-source characteristics at all | 23:08 |
| wpwrak | e.g., shipping cost or such | 23:08 |
| wolfspraul | maybe a chance to introduce a few more extensions? | 23:09 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 23:09 |
| wpwrak | i'll worry about this a bit later :) | 23:09 |
| wolfspraul | yes good | 23:09 |
| wolfspraul | just came to my mind thinking about it | 23:09 |
| wpwrak | right now, i'm populating the catalog. just wrote part number decoders for the most common resistors from stackpole and panasonic. about 6000 in total. | 23:09 |
| wolfspraul | oh! | 23:10 |
| wpwrak | a little more efficient than hand-picking those things :) | 23:10 |
| wpwrak | now i'm hammering digi-key with 5000 inventory queries, for the panasonic parts ... | 23:11 |
| kristianpaul | http://www.defectivebydesign.org/intel-hdminsult | 23:35 |
| kristianpaul | *gamble* | 23:36 |
| wpwrak | no surprise with that HDMI thing. after all the work that went into it :) | 23:41 |
| wpwrak | (mainly at the customer complaints departments, i imagine. due to the incompatibilities) | 23:41 |
| --- Sat Oct 16 2010 | 00:00 | |
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