#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2010-10-15

wolfspraulkristianpaul: http://lwn.net/Articles/409965/00:44
wolfspraulthe comments are encouraging, encouraging to see how many people think themselves and see the exact same weirdness we discussed earlier00:44
wolfspraulwe are on the right track...00:45
wolfspraul"So a tivo that required you to send it in to the factory to change the linux install on it would not require you to provide the linux source code?"00:45
wolfspraul:-)00:46
wolfspraul"So is the FSF the "Free high-level software foundation" now?"00:49
wolfspraul"It definitely looks to me as if they're applying different standards to different kinds of software, without good reason."00:49
wolfsprauland so on00:49
wolfspraulI'm thinking about moving ben-wpan and the sige gps work to the 12/1 community news01:43
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2010-11-0101:43
wolfspraul11/1 is overloaded and those two should still be very much fresh and new one month later01:44
wolfspraulif there are objections, let me know...01:44
wpwrakfine with me. though i still think you could conveniently make a 11/18 and still have material for 12/1 :)01:44
wpwrakerr .. 10/18 and 11/1, of course01:45
wolfspraulwpwrak: quick question about Ornotermes work and the ben-blinkenlights KiCad project01:47
wolfspraulwhich was first? how do they relate to each other?01:48
wolfspraulOrnoterms has an illustrated diy-guide with great pictures he took himself01:48
wolfspraulthat much is clear01:48
wolfspraulDavid used the software in ben-blinkenlights in the video he uploaded01:48
wolfspraulthat's also clear01:49
wolfspraul(I think)01:49
wolfspraulbut what about the KiCad files in ben-blinkenlights? they were just added as documentation? is there a layout too?01:49
wpwrakOrnitermes was first with idea and design01:49
wolfspraul(not that there is much to layout, I'm just trying to credit people correctly)01:49
wpwraki then redid everything in kicad and had the first things actually running :)01:50
wpwraklayout: you mean bbl.brd ?01:50
wolfspraulso is this accurate: Ornotermes and Werner built an SDIO breakout board, Ornoterms published a great illustrated DIY guide, and Werner uploaded KiCad files and demo software to the projects server.01:51
wolfspraulmaybe I'll shorten a bit but are the facts accurate?01:52
wolfspraul'SDIO breakout cable' is better maybe...01:52
wpwrakhmm s/uploaded/made/01:53
wpwraki did just the blinkenlights board (and then reused the design in atusd)01:53
wpwrakOrnotermes made a breakout cable01:54
wpwraki would also give him (solo) credit for the idea01:54
wpwrake.g., something like: Ornotermes had the idea to use the uSD slot for a breakout board. he and werner then built [...]01:55
wolfspraulgreat, thanks01:59
qwebirc10130i am writing one routine to accept some input from the user using getch()04:38
qwebirc10130but i need to allow backspace key also in it04:38
qwebirc10130how can I do it , plz help04:39
kyaki think you need to use readline library, but i might be mistaken04:52
qwebirc10130anybody who can answer my query05:16
xiangfuqwebirc10130: why your getch() cann't get the KEY_BACKSPACE ?, it's should read KEY_BACKSPACE as well.05:36
qwebirc10130hi xiangfu07:02
qwebirc10130getch() doesnt work in linux07:03
qwebirc10130s i have used getchar with some terminal settings07:03
kristianpaul"if I have to spend an hour using the computer to change the code that is OK, but if I have to spend ten minutes using the soldering iron to achieve the same goal, that's not OK." he07:06
kristianpaulWell solder not soo much but at least you he should be able to plug  JTAG cable or soemthing, wich came to the point of the "hiden" sofware in lockware07:09
wolfspraulkristianpaul: and the guy before that is even wrong.07:14
wolfspraulhe thinks if you have to send it back to the factory, where the factory uses its secret software for updates, that's not what the fsf has in mind.07:15
wolfspraulbut unfortunately, and sadly, that is in fact what the fsf has in mind.07:15
wolfspraulthis will only get worse the more the fsf talks about it, so let's hope this whole endorsement program dies a silent death :-) for our all good.07:17
wolfspraulotherwise the fsf will ruin some of their hard earned reputation, that's all.07:17
methril_workmorning07:30
qbjectMorning, all./10:45
mstevensyo10:45
djbclarkqbject: getting batteries China -> US is often hard - but that is a good point, I should ask appropriate people about that, will make a note, thanks!13:10
Action: djbclark and wolfspraul seem to be on 180 degree different scheduled :-(13:11
wpwrakdjbclark: hard due to the chinese paperwork, or are there other issues ?13:11
djbclarkwpwrak: due to shipping companies not wanting to ship large concentrations of things that could explode a lot. But maybe I'm being silly... Do you remember what type of battery chemistry is in nanonote batteries?13:12
wpwrakdjbclark: ah yes, shipping companies may have a word there as well. dunno the chemistry but anything reasonably compact and modern is of the "dangerous" kind13:14
djbclarkwpwrak: I recall the Ben Nanonote battery was semi-standard however, so maybe could find US suppier. Or there is sketch remailr in China I can use (but they do not guarantee things will get through).13:16
wpwrakdjbclark: found one. says "li-ion".13:16
wpwrakdjbclark: this may help: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Compatible_batteries13:17
djbclarkwpwrak: yeah that is what I was thinking of. But currently just trying to get to place where we have Ben Nanonote available from freedomincluded.com :-)13:19
wpwraksure. one step after another :)13:20
qbjectdjbclark: Thanks for looking into it. Looking forward to getting my BNN #2 from you once they're available.13:24
kyaksecond Ben? are you going to build a Ben-based supercomputer? :)13:25
qbjectsomeday, perhaps. :)13:25
kyaki have special plans for Ben when Ya gets out13:26
kyakbut not before that :)13:26
qbjectFor now I'm both very attached to having one that works, and very interested in tearing one apart to start designing new housings.13:26
kyakwow.. great plans13:27
djbclarkqbject: If you like really really want one now I can set up for payment, but it'd come either with a really-alpha LibreWRT or whatever came on it.13:27
djbclarkqbject: Oh, so you'd prefer a broken one? I think someone mentioned having one of those they were willing to donate on the list a while back.13:27
qbjectdjbclark: Thanks, but I'm still working on getting my milling machine shipped across the country, so I'm not ready just yet.13:28
djbclarkqbject: k, ping me when you are :)13:28
qbjectHmm. I'll check the logs. Might be useful...13:28
djbclarkqbject: or if not, just ask on the lists, I'm sure someone has managed to drop one from 10' up onto concrete or something by now!13:29
djbclarkqbject: Also Sharism might just have rejects that never workd.13:29
qbjectdjbclark: Thanks for that thought. I've been missing wolfie pretty effectively myself, but I'll chat him up about it if I ever get the chance.13:32
Action: djbclark owes him several emails... if only fires would stay put out :-D13:33
qi-bot[commit] Carlos Camargo: Fixing cai9n loader for lm32 errors http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/43de1a514:01
kyaktrying to figure out.. why the history is saved to /.ash_history when i'm logged to Ben directly and to ~/.ash_history when i'm logged in via ssh15:01
xdpirateyo, anyone got the link to the newest bootloader/kernel/userland?15:03
xdpiratethe openwrt one15:03
kyakxdpirate: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Official_Software_Image#Image_2010-08-15_(testing)15:05
wpwrakkyak: perhaps someone's not setting HOME ?15:06
xdpiratekyak, thanks15:06
kyakthere's even this one http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/testing/2010-09-14/15:06
kyakmore recent15:06
kyakwpwrak: i'm cross-checking the "env" output from ssh and tty, the only difference is "SHELL"15:07
xdpiratesweet15:07
kyakin case of ssh, it is /bin/ash, in case of tty it is /bin/sh for some reason15:07
kyakthe HOME is the same, though after loging to tty the PWD is set to /15:08
kyakso this is all really strange to me15:08
kyakit looks to me that PWD is inherited from parent process15:09
kyakin case of ssh it is dropbear15:09
kyakwhile in case of tty it is init15:09
kyaksomething is really wrong here15:09
kyakok, problem solved.. i saw there is a HISTFILE env var15:17
kyakso i just set it profile15:18
kyakanyway it is a bug in busybox, it checks the HOME variable before reading /etc/profile15:21
wpwrakkyak: gotta love all those little busybox quirks :)15:49
qbjectJeez. How long does it take to recharge a BNN from dead-flat?17:02
qbjectAh, it must've cycled on when I pulled the battery to see if it was frozen. All better.17:09
xdpirateis it possible to change fonts on the fly in the newest version?17:19
xdpiratenevermind, got it :)17:26
xdpiratedo we have gcc in openwrt yet? been away for a couple of months17:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Catalog listing and enhanced versions of various BOOM items from ben-wpan/bom. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/c1574ce23:05
wpwrakwolfspraul: you'll like this. i've added a new file type to BOOM. it's even a four-letter one, .catq for catalog queries.23:05
wolfsprauldoes the system support minimum order amounts for each source?23:08
wolfspraulsay "500 USD minimum" when ordering from ABC23:08
wpwrakno, it doesn't know per-source characteristics at all23:08
wpwrake.g., shipping cost or such23:08
wolfspraulmaybe a chance to introduce a few more extensions?23:09
wolfspraul:-)23:09
wpwraki'll worry about this a bit later :)23:09
wolfspraulyes good23:09
wolfsprauljust came to my mind thinking about it23:09
wpwrakright now, i'm populating the catalog. just wrote part number decoders for the most common resistors from stackpole and panasonic. about 6000 in total.23:09
wolfsprauloh!23:10
wpwraka little more efficient than hand-picking those things :)23:10
wpwraknow i'm hammering digi-key with 5000 inventory queries, for the panasonic parts ...23:11
kristianpaulhttp://www.defectivebydesign.org/intel-hdminsult23:35
kristianpaul*gamble*23:36
wpwrakno surprise with that HDMI thing. after all the work that went into it :)23:41
wpwrak(mainly at the customer complaints departments, i imagine. due to the incompatibilities)23:41
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