#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2010-10-12

wolfspraulafter some back and forth, we decided to start with a SiGe 4162 new IC which is not listed there yet00:00
wolfspraulthey sent us an EVB, which kristianpaul has now and tries to get GPS coordinates out of it :-)00:01
wolfspraulthe status of free software in this is probably not great, but not hopeless either I think00:02
wolfspraulthere seem to be quite a few scattered projects already00:02
wolfspraulon Wi-Fi (sige also has chips that atheros and others are using), we decided there is 'too much' between the ICs SiGe offers and what you buy from Atheros, for us to undertake it00:02
rohtrue. but none were even on the level of sirf3 last time i checked. that was what demotivated me to think about a attempt which does have no 'proper working fw' yet00:02
wolfspraulso the second project in that direction is the 802.15.4 project wpwrak is doing, called ben-wpan00:02
wolfspraulwell we work on that00:03
wolfspraulyou can watch it here...00:03
rohthat ive seen. am quite interrested about the results (ben-wpan)00:03
wolfspraulyou should also start to become interested in the SiGe 'driver' project00:03
wolfspraulbut yeah it's a lot of work00:03
wolfspraulbasically that would really replace all of what u-blox does00:03
wolfsprauland u-blox worked hard on this, for many years00:04
rohwolfspraul is there and proper working sw for the SiGe yet?00:04
rohlike gllin?00:04
wolfspraulthe founders came out of college with this project, and started the company00:04
wolfspraulroh: you need to ask kristianpaul00:04
roh(well.. working, not so poor like gllin)00:04
wolfspraul(he is sleeping right now I think)00:04
rohjust thinking. its cool to pursue that, of course00:04
wolfspraulwe are not trying to get u-blox binary blobs to work, I think that would be a lot of work and it's easier to just go straight to the source, collect the raw data samples, and decode them00:05
wolfspraulI'd say let's give it 6 months and then see where it stands.00:05
wolfspraulkristianpaul only got the SiGe EVB 2 weeks ago or so00:05
rohbut i wouldnt start building such hw and doing business with a non-dual way like i explained in the beginning. simply because that would to 'openmoko repeating' business-wise00:05
rohwolfspraul i dont mean 'try use ublox binaries'. but replicate the performance00:06
rohthat will take some more work than one person for half a year. in the end, thats where ublox also gets its money made from00:07
wpwrakroh: i think the processing unit is the least of your concerns. what's important is the RF side and the algorithms00:08
mthI've seen the testing that u-blox does on their software GPS... it's the most advanced automated test setup I ever saw00:08
mthand afaik they worked on it for many years, not months00:08
rohwpwrak ack. but the algorithms is the costly part00:08
wpwrakmth: and this is also the stuff they'll never open. so tracking u-blox wouldn't help us much.00:09
rohthe rf side is why i'd like to see some working binarie before trusting sige00:09
mthI mean that 6 months will get you nowhere near the same level that they are00:10
mthit might get you at a useful level though; I don't know the material that well00:10
rohits a nice research project anyhow ;)00:11
rohsomething to thumb-up for sure.00:11
wpwrakmth: i think it would be a success already if the thing can decode anything. that would allow to validate most of the hardware. you can probably analyze rf performance without even decoding anything.00:12
rohjust dont expect it works in 6-12month to be sold00:12
wpwrakmth: after that, it's all software. and we're used to software maturing with time :)00:12
mthwpwrak: yes, by all means have a go at it00:13
mthjust don't expect results too soon00:13
wpwrakwe'll have to ask kristianpaul about the schedule :)00:14
rohdoes qi-hw have access to a vector-signal-generator which can do rf up to ~1.5ghz?00:14
rohthat would be helpful for whoever does the hw validation for sure.00:15
wpwrakroh: does my usrp2 count ?00:15
wpwrakgrr :)00:15
rohsomething with a calibration-seal and a true decibel scale ;)00:15
wpwrakcalibration is indeed the weak spot ...00:16
wolfspraulmth: correct, I can totally see that they invest in a (closed of course) automated test system00:27
wolfspraulbecause it's a software company00:27
wolfspraulif we do this, the automated test system will be gpl as well00:27
wolfspraulI think we are all on the same page about 'realistic schedule'00:29
wolfspraulroh: trusting sige? you are already trusting it if you use (some) u-blox products00:31
rohoh? didnt know that00:31
rohthats in their favour then, of course00:31
wolfspraulthe last thing I would worry about in our projet is sige. maybe if we become successful there could be pressure from other sige customers, but that's very hypothetical and I don't worry about that now.00:31
wolfspraulroh: well, strange I thought I explained it above00:32
wolfspraulsige is an established company in RF ICs00:32
wolfspraulcompanies like u-blox use such vendors to build their software on00:33
wolfsprauland so do we now, at least we try00:33
rohwolfspraul now i am confused.. 'such vendors' for sure. but which products of ublox use sige products, and which ones?00:34
wolfspraulI don't know for sure, but I don't think u-blox has any RF competence, and I am not sure whether they want to build it up.00:35
wolfspraulI think they try to stay out of manufacturing, and out of RF. Could be wrong about the RF or they try different things, not sure.00:35
wolfspraulanother similar company like sige would be www.maxim-ic.com00:35
rohyou are sure about rf competence?00:35
rohi thought they must have atleast some good people there going from what results i see00:36
rohbad hw and good sw doesnt make a good performance either00:36
wolfspraulahh, well I talk about business model. what is your differentiator. what are you good at. what do you outsource.00:36
rohregardless if they bought the frontend or just used it right and put it on some proper layouted board00:36
wolfspraulif someone sells you something great that doesn't mean they also developed it. maybe they just marketed it, etc.00:37
rohlots of stuff one can do wrong when frequencies are above a few mhz00:37
wolfspraulcheckout sige.com, checkout maxim-ic.com00:37
wolfspraulif I find more I'll let you know00:37
wolfspraulI think u-blox is the wrong starting point00:37
rohtrue. but there are only frontends. how do they do their 'packages'?00:37
wolfspraulin all fairness to them, it's a great business and all, but free software? no way.00:37
rohis all the arm, etc in there just a multi-chip-package with external sourced dies?00:38
wolfspraulyou mean u-blox's? I don't know.00:38
wolfspraulI have moved on.00:38
wolfspraulI am not closely following u-blox anymore.00:38
wolfspraulI think they are focusing on software, for sure. what software exactly I don't know.00:39
wolfspraulthat's also a big area and you might want to license some things, do others yourself, focus your marketing on this or that area, etc.00:39
wolfspraulI hope that sige will support us even if they understand that everything we do will be free software.00:41
wolfspraulI need to visit them (already agreed to but haven't found the time yet).00:41
rohlooking forward to your report about it :)00:49
wolfspraulwpwrak: I think the schematics changes are automatically picked up...01:19
wolfspraullast one is October 9, that must have been fully automatic already01:19
wolfspraulI noticed that the '16 minutes ago' is relative to whenever that script ran, it's not accurate relative to the person looking at this in a browser01:19
kyakguys, are there instructions about how to build the latest kernel? any patches, what else?03:16
kyak(the idea is to compile the kernel natively on Ben)03:19
wolfspraulkyak: if you want to replicate the currently running uImages, I'd say you start from the openwrt patches. otherwise you can start with kernel.org 2.6.37-rc7 and see how far you get in booting. I doubt it will come up though, not all drivers are there yet.03:33
kyakyes, i'd like to start with the latest kernel03:39
kyakthe currently running i already have :)03:39
kyakso it seems like a lot of job.. porting all these openwrt patches to the latest kernel03:40
kyakincluding drivers03:40
wolfspraulwhich one are you running now?03:40
wolfspraulyou don't need to port 'all' patches, I'm sure. Lars got a large part of the XBurst stuff into
wolfsprauljust not everything, so if you try to compile a vanilla kernel you will run into the missing parts. larsc knows most about it, I am just giving you my best guess.03:41
kyaki'm running the from openwrt, so it makes no sense to try and build it on Ben03:48
kyakok, i got your point03:48
kyaki'm just trying to understand where to start03:49
kyaki got 2.6.37-rc7 on my desktop, and don't see anything similar to qi/xburst or whatever in make menuconfig03:49
kyakhow should i select a target? there is something else in CPu family03:50
wolfspraulhmm, no I also don't know how to configure it. if I run a find . -iname '*4740*' in the 2.6.36-rc7 tree, I do find a lot of files though, so it's definitely there03:52
wolfspraulmaybe under mips03:52
wolfspraulI think if you really try to get 2.6.36-rc7 to boot on your Ben, you should wait until you get some advice from Lars. otherwise you may waste a lot of time.03:53
wolfspraulI've heard numbers like "90% should be there" or so.03:53
wolfspraulbut for sure you cannot just make install modules_install && reboot03:53
wolfspraulthen I don't know whether there are OpenWrt-specific patches you might need, if you want to use this kernel to boot from an OpenWrt generated rootfs03:54
wolfspraulthat's a separate question I also cannot answer :-)03:54
kyakok... thanks for the hints03:55
kyakwolfspraul: btw, i noticed there is a "make yesoldconfig", which might be just what we need instead of yes "" | make oldconfig > /dev/null03:58
kyakneed to try03:58
wolfsprauloh really?04:26
wolfspraulwill check04:26
wolfspraulin Linux it's called silentoldconfig, so maybe I only looked for that04:27
kyakoh, yes, i'm talking about linux config, maybe that yesoldconfig is not even in openwrt..04:31
wpwrakwolfspraul: (relative date) hmm yes, that's relative to the time the index.html was generated. there's no good way to implement this correctly. i guess i'll remove it then.04:48
wolfspraulI was unable to resist a few more patent mails :-)04:50
wolfspraulsuch a drag04:50
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Removed relative date in commit entries. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/e7f844504:52
kyakB_Lizzard: hi!05:41
kyakhow are your efforts for nupdf doing? :)05:41
B_LizzardThe API does not completely match05:42
B_LizzardSome functions were renamed, others were removed, their functionality moved elsewhere05:42
B_LizzardStill working on it05:42
kyaksounds likes a lot of work05:43
kyakmupdf developers could've treated their users better05:43
B_LizzardWell, my only gripe is the lack of documentation05:49
tuxbrainwolfspraul: have you seen the fedora forbiden items links?06:28
wolfspraulI saw it, but not read it06:30
wolfspraulI'm sure they have good stuff there, so I will definitely read it06:30
wolfspraulmy passion for legal stuff is limited06:30
wolfspraullife is short06:30
wolfspraulforbidden items? and you want me to read that?06:30
wolfspraulcome on! :-)06:31
kristianpaulroh: not yet06:31
kristianpaulwpwrak: yup i need put a schdulle on the wiki06:32
kristianpaulsadly this weekend i cant work on the hardware side of the board bcae i have a meeting in a town two hours away by ground,06:33
kristianpaulbut i think i'll make the first contact with the data next week06:33
kristianpauli wish early but i dont have some expensive tools at home to take some measures before break soemthing, so i asked a profesor in the local public university to let me use their labs he said yes, but i', not in town in weeks days, so i'll ask for a some free days next weeks to workon it06:35
wolfspraulkristianpaul: wow fantastic!06:37
wolfspraulsay thanks to that prof from the Qi community :-)06:37
wolfspraulcan you add the name of college and prof to the Community News? I think such information is interesting and valuable.06:38
wolfsprauljust dump is here somewhere, I'll make it prettier later06:38
wolfspraulalso mention which equipment exactly he gives you access to, one line is enough06:40
kristianpaulroh: performance is clue, i'm more worried about that part besides data acquisition in wich i work right now06:40
kristianpaulroh: that allow me to get a big dump of trusty binaty data so in can upload somwhere for other hack on06:41
kristianpaulroh: Ben is not so powerfull,, may be?? (remenber SIMD is not been explored so depth) so lets see if we stikc to off line correlation or a free correlation damenos for the ben..06:42
kristianpaulso far there is a free sofware projects that beat ubox software i think06:42
kristianpaulis called gpd-sdr (note all this is already documented on the wiki page)06:43
kristianpaulit worked with a  PRIMO board, wich uses a maxin chip, _BUT_ was proven to work to with a demotration board (that just let capture 30s of data !!) is from SiGE to similar chip06:44
kristianpaulso we're not so far06:44
kristianpaulthe clue for now is data aquisition06:44
kristianpaulit may sound simple (wich in fact it is) but i just want make sure get data in right way (thats way i'd had been bugging about scopmeter equipment this days)06:45
kristianpaulalso i may need a CPLD (wich i have) to implement a three stare buffer to avoid some anoyiance in the future06:46
kristianpaulwhat stop me? well i jus orderded the JTAG cable some days ago, i think it will take some other days to arrive06:46
kristianpaulwhat i'm doing now? I'll debug all data output from the SiGE EVB, (as the manual that came with it recomend)06:47
kristianpauls/so we're not so far/so we're not so away06:52
kristianpaulthe missing part is the aquisition data06:54
kristianpaulthen move to something like this http://www.gps-sdr.com/wiki/gps-sdr/Architecture maybe in the nanonote to try first06:54
kristianpaulroh: all this is new for me (in some manner) so if you have recomendation i really will apreciate06:58
kristianpaulok i must leave now (travel to work)07:02
kristianpaulsee ya i some hrs07:02
kristianpaulwpwrak: i added a small schudell i hope update the items on it during the day07:08
tuxbrainwolfspraul: yes the topic is bit unfortunate :)  but the text inside seems is real good explanation on patent topics , and reasons of why must be avoided and don't have room in a free project. we can use the less aggressive topic of wpwrak page, just saying that work on that issues is already done and written, and able to use without loosing more time on this. Agree live is short and there is a lot of things more interesting to do :), damn lawyers07:19
wolfspraultuxbrain: I'm sure Fedora is doing good work on this, I'll read it no worries07:36
cfyhi all,i think i'm in trouble08:17
cfyi reflash the ben nanonote,i want install debian on it08:18
cfyi do the steps as this web says08:19
cfywhen i finish flash,i can see success on the xterm08:20
cfythen i use the hardware reset  on the button of the device08:21
cfybut it seems does'nt work.08:21
cfyso i want to boot in usb mode08:21
cfybut  the software and the hardware boot mode do not work08:22
cfyi don't know what to do08:22
cfycan some one give me some advices?thanks08:22
larsctake out battery, disconnect usb, wait 5 seconds and repower the device08:24
cfyrepower?like normal power?08:25
cfyi try it08:25
cfycan someone speak chinese,i know xiangfu can,but he is not here08:26
cfylarsc: it dosn't work08:29
cfylsusb still not display 601a:474008:29
larscpress the power button for a few seconds08:30
cfyi press more than 5 seconds,but happen nothing08:33
cfymaybe i should disconnect from the prower for more while08:41
cfywhen i plug the battery,and connect the usb ,i can see the led bright08:43
cfyso my nn isn't broken?08:43
larsci don't think so08:48
larscit's virtually impossible to brick the nanonote be conventional means08:49
cfyi mean i hope the hardware will not be broken.08:50
cfyi always run openwrt on the nn08:54
cfybut i want to try debian,because i may get more softwares08:55
kyakand more unstability08:57
kyakthis is not the first time people complaining about Ben being bricked after debian08:57
cfybe brick?08:58
kyakalso, the more software your are talking about is generally just not suitable for Ben09:00
cfykyak: is there any solution to save the bricked ben?09:00
kyakas larsc said, it is hard to brick it.. so don't worry09:00
kyakjust reflash09:00
cfybut i can't boot it in usb mode09:00
kyakthen boot it by shortneing pins09:02
cfyoh,i will wait for xiangfu,so i can speak chinese to him:)09:02
cfykyak: the hardware usb_boot?09:02
cfyi try,but failed09:02
cfybut i don't try the hardware usb boot before,maybe i do the wrong way09:04
zearafaik you can't physically brick a nanonote, as the system-on-chip allows you to switch to usb boot mode to reflash the nand even if the device is bricked09:37
zearand you can't modify/delete the system-on-chip, so it will be always there09:38
wpwrakcfy: here's a quick process: first without usb_boot:09:39
wpwrakcfy: 1) remove battery and disconnect usb.09:40
wpwrak2) wait 30 seconds.09:40
wpwrak3) press the U key and hold it down.09:40
wpwrak4) while still holding down U, connect USB.09:40
wpwrak5) wait 5 seconds, then release U.09:40
wpwrak6) lsusb on the PC should now show you the xxxx:474009:41
cfythen done?09:41
cfyok,i try it09:41
cfyzear: got it09:41
wpwrakthen you proceed with the flashing procedure09:41
wpwrakif this doesn't work, try it again, maybe 1-2 times. if it still doesn't work, then your u-boot is broken, too. don't worry, this can be fixed as well09:42
wpwrakbut let's first see how this goes.09:42
cfydosn't work09:42
cfymabye i try the hardware usb boot09:43
wpwrakokay, there it goes as follows:09:43
wpwrak1) remove battery and disconnect USB.09:43
wpwrak2) wait 30 seconds.09:43
wpwrak3) use the carbonized rubber button (the little rubber thing that came as an acessory with the ben) to short the usb_boot contacts09:44
wpwrak4) hold that button down. then connect usb, while still holding the button. release the button after 5 seconds.09:44
wpwrak5) now you should see xxxx:474009:45
cfyok,i try09:45
wpwrakif it doesn't work, retry. it's not easy to get a reliable contact with this rubber button.09:45
wpwrakimportant: make sure the system is without power for ~30 seconds before you try to start it. if you don't give it enough time, it won't reset.09:46
cfyok,it works!!!09:46
wpwrakyeah !! congratulations ! :)09:46
cfyi notice you don't tell me to press the power button09:46
wpwrakthis is your lucky day :)09:46
cfymaybe this is the problem?09:47
wpwrak"press" was "use to short" :)09:47
wpwrakah .. no09:47
wpwraksorry. the power button isn't used.09:47
cfythank you,and thank all:)09:47
cfyyou save me :)09:47
wpwrakthe system powers on automatically if you supply power. you need the power button only to start it if it has already had power.09:48
cfywpwrak: i have try this hardware usb boot before,but it doesn't work,i don't know why this time it works09:49
cfywpwrak: maybe last times,i always press the power button?09:49
wpwrakcfy: maybe, yes. or you didn't hold down the rubber button all the time. or sometimes it's just bad luck :)09:50
cfywpwrak: oh,got it,thank you.i finally be lucky:)09:51
kristianpaulhmm Fedex is offering a courier service10:02
wpwrakkristianpaul: breaking news ! ;-)10:03
kristianpaulwpwrak: you thing is good have an customer account with Fedex?10:04
qi-bot[commit] carlos: Adding bootloader for lm32 http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/9b7555210:06
kristianpauloh i need check that commit !10:07
wpwrakkristianpaul: dunno. i never applied for one. not sure if i could even get one as independent.10:07
kristianpaulwpwrak: well it seems i can the guy call me yday offering the service plus requirement (works for independent)10:08
cfywpwrak: hi,http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/USB_BOOT_mode10:16
cfywpwrak: in the step two,connect with usb10:16
cfywpwrak: is it not true?10:16
kristianpaulcfy: is true10:18
cfykristianpaul: oh,but i think this doesn't work on my situation10:19
kristianpaulJust Sometimes is Sometimes :)10:19
cfyoh,my situation is special:)10:20
cfyxiangfu: hi,`e†10:21
xiangfucfy: Hi10:22
cfyxiangfu: M7debianú†î˜àÕÛeusb boot10:22
cfyxiangfu: °(}†10:22
xiangfucfy: great.10:22
wpwrakcfy: (http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/USB_BOOT_mode) hmm, these instructions aren't good. that's not how the hardware works.10:33
wpwrakkyak: (the trouble with debian) it's indeed interesting why people have so many problems with that. i wonder what the install instructions for debian say.10:33
cfywpwrak yes,i retry,your instructions is better10:53
cfyFrom my mobile10:54
cfyOh,the debian cannot work,maybe i should return to openwrt10:55
cfyAnd try debian on SD10:56
cfyBye all10:56
qi-bot[commit] César Pedraza: .. http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/c48feff11:11
kristianpaulwpwrak: ()that's not how the hardware works) there is not need to press power button when doing usb boot isnt?11:21
qi-bot[commit] César Pedraza: fixed logic for Evalfit peripheral http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/5fbd9db11:22
wpwrakkristianpaul: there's no need to press POWER when applying power to a properly drained device11:22
wpwrakkristianpaul: (not only usb_boot)11:22
kristianpaulwpwrak: but that aply when powering from usb or also battery?11:23
qi-bot[commit] César Pedraza: logic fixed http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/ece832a11:24
wpwrakkristianpaul: good question. try it :)11:33
kristianpaulLets see i pressed M button and the Ben dint powerup or boot from SD, after 15 seconds when i stoped11:43
kristianpaulbut wait, i cant try usb_boot with baterry at least i take apart battery but keep powering up the Ben11:44
kristianpaulwpwrak: you are tricky !!11:44
Action: kristianpaul need get other battery and some wires11:44
wpwrakkristianpaul: i don't think you need usb boot. i think the ben will just boot normally, too. (into openwrt or whatever)11:52
kristianpaulwpwrak: (boot in whatever) without pressing power button?11:52
kristianpaulbut just the first time the system is powered11:52
kristianpaulmay be we'were talking about different topics ;)11:56
qi-bot[commit] werner: Updated regression tests for output change in r5974 and improved handling of http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/025183312:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: Makefile (spotless): added target to remove "fped" (suggested by Xiangfu Liu) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/a119e2512:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: make the SVN_VERSION, SVN_STATUS run only once. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/478bf0312:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: add the manual page manual/fped.1 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/4d175e512:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: add DESTDIR to Makefile. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/585ea5512:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: Updated regression tests for output change in r5974 and improved handling of http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/025183312:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: Makefile (spotless): added target to remove "fped" (suggested by Xiangfu Liu) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/a119e2512:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: make the SVN_VERSION, SVN_STATUS run only once. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/478bf0312:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: add the manual page manual/fped.1 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/4d175e512:05
qi-bot[commit] werner: add DESTDIR to Makefile. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/585ea5512:05
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian package stuff http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/2e5327512:05
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: clean up the Build-Depends. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/290447812:05
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: use the new version rules. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/ba53ced12:05
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian/fped.manpages  for install manpage http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/937213b12:05
qi-bot[commit] afc: fix http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/4abc11812:15
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian/fped.manpages  for install manpage http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/bf4e0b912:17
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update to svn rev 5982, enable dh_auto_test http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/23dc37012:17
xiangfuwpwrak: ^ :) , sync the fped.git to upstream svn, and update the debian package staff12:21
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: use usual name for orig tarball top-level directory http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/131fa6012:33
kristianpaullarsc: Who maintain Hanvon subtarget btw?12:51
kristianpaulI see this ebook is Xburst12:51
kristianpaulbut i guess not same modules load like in Ben12:51
larsckristianpaul: i maintain it12:52
kristianpaullarsc: :)12:52
larscthere is a special subconfig in the n526/ subfolder of the xburst target which enables missing modules12:53
kristianpaulyou mean modules not avalible in linux upstream or with some slight code?12:54
wpwrakkristianpaul: what i mean is when you apply power after draining it completely12:54
qi-bot[commit] Bas Wijnen: allow u-boot usbboot to be used as well http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/90186ce12:55
kristianpaulwpwrak: ah i tought, you're right documentation dont need mention POWER button in those cases12:57
wpwrakkristianpaul: the POWER button is quite misleading because it suggests an entirely different start mechanism. if you apply power and only then hold usb_boot/U, then it'll never work13:05
kristianpaulhmm thats true usb_boot is not same when hardware13:10
kristianpaulor sofware13:10
qi-bot[commit] Bas Wijnen: allow using 2GB nand and ignore 'valid'-bits http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/8d5e29013:30
kristianpaulHow is that just today i found this http://sharism.org exists..13:50
qbjectAre you around, zear?15:55
qbjectzear: nevermind. I was going to ask about the "b" bug in Powder, but I found your solution in the logs.15:58
zearoh really? :D16:01
zearbtw, B_Lizzard ported nethack-newt (graphical interface) to the nanonote under jlime16:01
zearit's totally awesome16:01
B_LizzardIt probably works in openwrt too16:01
zeari spent half of this day playing it :D16:01
zearB_Lizzard, probably not, they have a lot of problems with sdl recently16:01
zearor at least that's what i heard16:02
zearhence i was always statically linking against dingux libs ;P16:02
methrilhi all!17:40
methrilsomeone up?17:40
Action: qbject salutes methril17:40
qbjectHow ya be?17:40
methrilFor those that love Radio (aka USRP) solutions, i just received a interesting project link17:41
methrili'm fine, and you qbject17:41
methrilwith OpenHardware License17:41
zearbtw qbject, not willing to try nethack-newt?17:42
methrilhi zear17:43
zearpowder is a game of chess, while nethack is a real adventure ;)17:43
zearhey methril17:43
methrili read you on ml17:43
methrili'm silent on the ml17:43
methrilbut ialmost read all17:43
methrilmailing list17:43
Action: methril nods17:43
zearhehe, i stopped reading it when it started being more active17:43
zearnow i have over 300 unreaded posts17:44
qbjectzear: I'd love to try it, but I'm not rocking jlime.17:44
zeari barely use my nanonote, mostly for playing nethack17:44
zearsimply i'm involved in other project (dingoo) and have no time for my nn17:44
zearqbject, you *could* try to install it in owrt17:44
methrilwell, help on dingo helps on NN :)17:45
zearB_Lizzard, what was the link to the ipk?17:45
methrili'm more interested in further projects17:45
zearmethril, yes of course :) But if i'm ever gonna continue my nanonote support, it's gonna be for jlime17:45
methrilbut i'm nice with nn17:45
zearB_Lizzard, thank you good sir17:45
zearB_Lizzard, what does that need? just sdl and mixer/17:46
qbjectB_Lizzard, thanks.17:46
B_LizzardI also just finished porting the puzzles sdl thing17:46
methriljlime could be full supporteb by q-hw if they get rid of pantent stuff17:46
B_Lizzardsdl, sdl-image and sdl-mixer17:46
zearB_Lizzard, the puzzle collection?17:46
zearB_Lizzard, it rocks17:46
B_LizzardWhich was originally done for GP2x17:46
B_LizzardWorks like a charm17:46
zearB_Lizzard, using my source, or the gp2x one?17:46
methrilzear, you are doing really amazing games work on MIPS :)17:46
zearheh :P17:47
B_LizzardFor googlecode17:47
methrilthsi is nice17:47
zearmethril, thanks, though i am simply finalizing other people work17:47
zearthe original program authors should get all the kudos17:47
zeari only recompile stuff17:47
methrilzear, never said tha recompile and packaging is simple stuff17:48
zearB_Lizzard, just so you know, there is a new version of STPPC out17:48
zearif you used the old gp2x sources, they're probably outdated17:48
zearmethril, well, it is17:48
zearit's just time consuming17:48
methrilwell, time is gold!!! ;)17:48
zearbut it's nothing you need proper knowledge for17:48
B_LizzardNah, i used svn17:49
zearB_Lizzard, ah, good17:49
methrili've no much time to spent on my projects.... so.... for me.... time is gold17:49
zearmethril, any stuff that could be ported to the mips?17:49
zearfor 320x240, that is17:49
qbjectzear: What methril said. I can barely compile hello.h17:49
zearqbject, believe or not, but i don't know much besides that ;)17:50
qbjectzear: nevertheless, you can make it go. I have other skills, but that ain't one of them.17:50
zeari have a very limited c knowledge, only enough to modify the little fragments of the code responsible for input/video output, stuff you need to optimize for small devices17:50
methrilwell, i would like to help more. I started an effort to port RTAI (Real Time Application Interface) to MIPS17:51
zearbut i'm unable to write anything from scratch on my own17:51
qbjectzear: OpenTyrian, static-linked.17:51
methrilzear, write from scratch is hard, but understand others code is harder (sometimes) ;)17:51
zearmethril, i don't really understand their code, just the little fragments, and there's a lot of trial and error17:54
zearbut recently i started learning proper C knowledge17:54
zearfrom the very beginning17:54
zearand it already helped me a lot as i finally understand pointers and their relation with arrays and i fully understand the compiling/linking process, and the latter is really useful for porting stuff17:55
methrilzear, if you need help i could give you some points (i express myself better inspanish, but i could try to do it in english)17:55
methrili've been programming in C for more than 6 years now17:56
zearmethril, don't worry, i'm not english native myself17:56
zearso far i got stucked on pointers, as the course began referring to it's exercise part (while at the start they said the exercise part wasn't mandatory)17:57
zearso basically now i have to start reading the exercise part from the 1st lesson, which will take me a couple of days to get to the pointers section17:57
methrilwell, pointers are easy when you understand them17:59
methrillater you love them17:59
methriland you have most of the sw control17:59
methrilyou could point pointers to hw registers, to hw memory maps,,......17:59
methrilit's the most flexible tool you havein C17:59
zeari know the tehory now18:03
zearbut as i said, in the examples of the code they started referring to the exercise part of the course, so i simply don't know what's going on in the code anymore. So i can't really learn pointers on the examples anymore, must read the exercise part of the course now18:04
zearmethril, i will remember about you and in case i have some problems i'll ask for help ;)18:06
methrilzear, i'm here as methril or methril_work18:07
methrili'm glad to help you18:07
wpwrakmethril: "you could point pointers to hw registers" ... but not to CPU registers :) (register int foo; ... &foo ...)18:07
methrilwpwrak, it depends on the compiler and the cpu ;)18:08
methrili deal with compiler where you could do almost everything :)18:08
B_LizzardA good book is a lifesaver18:08
wpwrakmethril: that should be generally disallowed in ANSI C. some systems may have memory-mapped CPU registers elsewhere, of course18:09
B_LizzardI got "C Programming: A Modern" approach which is really good18:09
B_LizzardI read C Primer Plus and Practical C Programming before that and they weren't as good18:09
methrilwpwrak, off course, but some crappy compilers are not ANSI C ;)18:09
wpwrakK&R is pretty nice, too18:09
B_LizzardYeah, K&R is great.18:09
B_LizzardDives deep very fast18:10
methrili never read C book, but i read some C++ books18:10
methriland others18:10
methrili love to read the C compiler manual18:10
methrilit helps so much+18:10
B_LizzardWell, I stopped reading for a month and I've forgotten everything :/18:10
wpwrakmethril: the appendix of K&R is particularly useful for the finer points :)18:10
B_Lizzardmanpages manpages manpages18:10
methrilmaybe i 've to take a look18:11
methrili'm still learning, but... C is my favorite languange18:11
methrilC++ is the second18:11
methriland later on... Python18:11
wpwrakand then there's Zlotnick for POSIX. compact and to the point.18:11
B_LizzardI was thinking of learning Go, that Google language...18:12
B_LizzardBut C comes first18:12
methrilin my defense, i've tosaid i learned Pascal and Java first (in that order)18:12
methrili think every language adapts is needs18:13
mthmethril: learning Python would be more useful I think, since it is less like C than C++ is18:13
methrilbut C is really well adapted for SoC's and low level (that is where i like to live)18:13
methrilwell, lera18:14
mthso you'd have a broader spectrum of languages to choose from when you want to solve some problem18:14
methrillearning VErilog HDL is my point now18:14
methrilto mix with C and C++18:14
methrilto get the things working18:14
methrili like some C++ APIs, but i love to have the control i could have with C18:15
methrilmaybe someday i'm able to mix only C and python, but for now, i choose the language it adapts better for my needs :)18:15
methrili also know other languages (Perl, Shell Script, Java, Visual Basic (also .NET versions), C# , ....18:16
methriland i've my own preferences18:16
methrili also programmed in some pseudo languages18:16
methrilC+Pascal+VisualBasic, Some Pseudo C, .VHL, ...... etc.18:17
methrilwpwrak, did you see my lik, it's an interesting amateur radio hw18:20
methrilwpwrak,  http://openhpsdr.org/18:20
qbjectHas anyone mapped the function-key-screen-switching in owrt to something that can be done with just thumbs?18:28
wpwrakmethril: yeah, but only low frequencies. not sure it's really interesting outside the ham sector in this state18:34
methrilwpwrak, some of the modules are around 1GHz18:57
methrili don't think it's low freq18:57
zearqbject, now since you have dingux's sdl libs, you can try nethack (i just realized it was you whom i helped on the forums :D)18:59
qbjectAch ha!18:59
qbjectBrilliant. Can't mess with it tonight, but I will tomorrow. Now I have to catch a train. Cheers!19:00
wpwrakmethril: ah, i only saw that filter array but no real RF front-ends. still, most of the interesting stuff happens > 1 GHz nowadays.19:06
methrili see most interesting stuff happens > 1Ghz ;)19:09
methrilwpwrak, some of your intersting stuff is hapenning there, and maybe some of mine (at work) happens there too19:10
methrilunfortunately i still don't have any lue at job, and i've no time to help you, but someday i will :)19:10
wpwrakLUE ?19:16
wpwrak(some day) good :)19:16
methrilwpwrak, did you see the sw? http://openhpsdr.org/cyclops.html19:20
methrilwpwrak, it's ready for 1 GHz19:20
methrilsorry, i misunderstand the project, it's for HAM and radio amateurs19:25
wpwrak0 to 1 GHz is nice :)19:33
wolfspraulread this from Chitlesh about FEL: "We operate like a EDA/CAD group of a company but for the20:57
wolfspraulopensource hardware community."20:57
wolfspraulvery nice!20:57
wolfspraulI'll keep it in mind when talking about Qi Hardware...20:57
wpwrakwolfspraul: (community news) seems that the next one will be delivered in five volumes and will be read only by scholarly researchers ;-)21:09
wpwrakwolfspraul: (i.e., there's already a lot of stuff and there are still 2.5 weeks to go)21:09
wolfspraulmaybe I move some to 12/121:12
wpwrakwhy not make one, say, next week ? if the rate doesn't drop, 12/1 will be even worse :)21:13
wpwrakand then you have a lot of MM to report about21:13
wolfspraulright now 11/1 is still a mess21:13
wolfspraulmaybe I find an hour or two today21:13
kristianpaulmethril: nice link about HPSDT, have you got one of those?21:34
kristianpaulOpen Hardware License - Non-Commercial License Btw21:34
kristianpauli not sure wich license uses the USRP(2)21:34
kristianpaulBut sadlt i think those Endless Open Hardware Licenses consortiums, and blah blah blah, just focused on non-comercial afaik (i hope i'm wrong)21:35
kristianpauljust getting excuses that hardware cant be theated like sofware lets make a new licencese ! (suspicious)21:36
kristianpaulwich qi had proven is NOT true21:36
kristianpaulmethril: are ahcking around SDR recently btw?21:36
kristianpaul[five volumes] lol :)21:37
kristianpaulwolfspraul: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Piwik_stats an the end of the top chart why always the line go down after current wich in think is not true, is this a piwik bug?21:40
kristianpaulThat why you moved that graph for qi main page?21:40
wolfspraulkristianpaul: that's the last/current day, right?21:42
wolfspraulis that what you mean?21:42
wolfspraulbecause today is not over yet, the numbers for today are still growing21:42
kristianpaulbut it seems falling21:42
kristianpauljust kid of funny21:42
wolfspraulif you think that doesn't 'look good', we just end the chart with yesterday21:43
kristianpaulor may be not so ./21:43
kristianpauli think so21:43
kristianpauljust a falling pointer never look good in those graphs ;)21:43
wolfspraulok, point taken21:43
wolfspraulbut you understand why it is so, right?21:44
wolfspraulif only 10 hr of a 24h day have passed...21:44
wolfspraulI like to 'deflate' those numbers anyway, since everybody else is inflating.21:44
kristianpaulbut it evetully will change if i look it at 23:59 ?21:44
wolfspraulyes correct21:44
wolfspraulright now we take out traffic from admins21:45
kristianpaulto admins?21:45
wolfspraulbut also this is 'visitors' but there is a smaller number 'unique visitors' that I will switch to21:45
wolfspraulbasically I set all switches and settings I can find to come out with lower numbers21:45
wolfspraulI really don't like these inflated numbers.21:45
wolfspraulit would be easy to make the graph show 2000 visitors, trust me :-)21:45
wolfspraulabout homepage21:46
wolfspraulyes, it was at the bottom of the homepage for a few weeks21:46
wolfspraulbut there are 2 problems21:46
wolfspraulone is, the chart is using flash21:46
wolfspraulwho likes flash?21:46
kristianpaulwell i was not pointendhihg visit rates either just worried about now clarifying a bit non-complented data21:46
kristianpaulwell i dont21:46
kristianpaulbut is there..21:46
wolfsprauland another one is, querying the chart is creating a high load on the server21:47
wolfsprauland MediaWiki cashing doesn't help because it's all javascript driven21:47
kristianpaulmysql queries?21:47
wolfspraulwell it's not just one png that is served21:47
wolfspraulit's an endless series of data points queried via javascript21:47
wolfsprauland then flash21:47
kristianpaulpiwiki dint have a RRD-like out put like in munin?21:48
wolfspraulso... one sec...21:48
wolfspraulI'm already on it21:48
wolfspraulthere is a plugin to render charts as png21:48
kristianpaulgo ahead :)21:48
wolfspraulbut it's buggy, and it doesn't support unique visitors yet21:48
wolfspraulhe said he would come out with support for unique visitors in 'a few days'21:49
wolfspraulthat was 4 days ago21:49
kristianpaulah unique your dont wan to track us :)21:49
wolfspraulso let's just give it some time21:51
wolfspraulpiwik is running21:51
wolfspraul/wiki/Piwik_stats works21:51
wolfspraulI removed it from the homepage 'for now' to solve the flash and unnecessary load problem. a new plugin is 'in the making'21:51
wolfspraulI'd say give it a few weeks and a nice PNG unique visitors chart is back on the homepage.21:52
wolfspraulalso I plan a rotation of small, thumbnail sized interesting pictures on the homepage21:53
wolfspraulsay we put a picture in a new category, Homepage_rotation21:53
wolfspraulthen we have a small band, like a newsticker, very small thumbnails21:53
wolfsprauljust with some fun/interesting pics21:53
wolfspraulanyway just an idea21:53
wolfspraulno time right now...21:54
kristianpaulwpwrak: the SiGE manual said minimum output drive (7.5pF load) but the Ingenic Datasheet said that VDDIO pins have a typical 5pF, so may be, i should be so scare about getting triangled waveform, after all22:01
kristianpaulanyway i'll do the test22:01
wolfspraulkristianpaul: I start the chart with yesterday22:19
kristianpaulwolfspraul: looks better now :)22:21
kristianpaulok 'im off bed (long day)22:27
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: Routing some FPGA free GPIOs http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/0411d6023:07
--- Wed Oct 13 201000:00

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