#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2010-10-02

aisaWhat is the linux command for creating partitions?00:00
aisaI've spent too long in *BSD :-)00:00
wolfspraulI still use fdisk - 'n' (new), 'p' (primary), etc. etc.00:02
wolfspraulparted is a more modern choice I'd say00:03
wolfspraulyes there is a ticket, one sec00:03
wolfspraulhmm, maybe it's not written up after all00:06
wolfspraulaisa: you can write up bugs here http://projects.qi-hardware.com/p/ben-nanonote/issues/00:08
aisaperfect, I'll write this up then!00:08
wolfspraulthanks!00:10
aisaI'll flesh this out more as time goes on, but I wrote up version 1.0 of my skillset:00:11
aisahttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/User:Alanpost#Skills00:11
aisaI'm not fishing for new tasks right now, my NanoNote backlog is still full.00:11
aisabut I intend to work on some of the deeper issues we're experiencing on the NanoNote, so I share my skillset so as I'm ready to work on these you know what I can and can't do.00:11
wolfspraulmost important I think is steady progress over time, not run like crazy at the beginning, then be exhausted after x weeks :-)00:12
aisaexcellent advice!00:13
aisaok, I'm off for tonight.  I'll file that ticket tomorrow.00:13
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: we have pretty nice and automatic schematics histories up :-)01:13
wolfspraulhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/01:13
wolfspraulthis is driven directly after commits of KiCad files into git01:13
wolfspraulthanks to some magic scripts by Werner...01:14
wpwrakwolfspraul: congratulations on getting schhist up and running !05:26
wolfspraulwpwrak: ah, it's all your work05:27
wolfspraulbut yes I'm happy it's running05:27
wolfspraulnext time there is a KiCad commit we have to see how it holds up05:28
wpwrakwhat could possibly go wrong ? ;-)05:28
wolfspraulwe could also automatically create visualizations of mechanical/3D files :-)05:30
wpwrakhmm, 3D is already as automated as it can get :) the tricky bit is finding an orientation that looks good05:32
wolfspraulanimated gif that rotates the object :-)05:33
wpwraklayouts will be fun, though. the plot function is much more complex than the one for schematics. and there is talk about changing the board format, so just doing the plot without involving pcbnew wouldn't be a future-proof  idea.05:34
wolfspraulactually you were right about the AVT2 work, it does look quite nice05:35
wolfspraulfunny I always thought it was a big mess, but now that things are nicely visible we can all see that Carlos did a pretty clean job back then05:35
wolfspraulwpwrak: understood. there is no rush I think.05:35
wolfspraulfor me, it's much much more important that things are maintainable, that we are communicating everything properly, etc.05:36
wpwrak(animated) i was thinking of making a "ben factory" clip with pov-ray. after all, there's little difference in having one or 100 cases in an image :)05:36
wolfsprauleven the schematics diffs/visualizations we have now provide ample opportunities to improve the process05:36
wolfspraulbut it needs time, need to explain, etc.05:36
wpwrakyeah, caching ...05:36
wolfspraulyeah, great!05:36
wpwrakah, the user's process :)05:36
wolfspraulI think we share the same view that in any open hardware project, the process & tools is what matters. so the more we can integrate/document/automate that on the mechanical side, the better05:37
wolfspraulanyway, schematics diffs running now, good!05:38
wolfspraulnext on my server list are a few additional mediawiki extensions and updates05:38
wpwrakyup. the more computers take care of the boring repetitive things, the better05:38
wolfsprauland some smaller things like openwrt source mirror for packages from openwrt-packages05:39
wolfspraulthe usb id updates are not reflected in the usb.ids download file yet, although they do show up in the web interface05:39
wpwrakbtw, don't you want to shut down the forum ? it seems to serve more as a trap than a useful place for communication05:39
wolfspraulhe :-)05:39
wolfspraulsteter tropfen hoehlt den stein05:40
wolfspraulno I don't want to shut it down, but you are right it needs more love05:40
wpwrak(usb ids) cool. i think they don't create the file very often05:40
wpwrak;-)05:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: ben-pcb-comp2: 1 mm and 100 um scans are done. Reusing old ben-pcb-comp-500um. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/d0d1c5c05:40
wolfspraulI want to improve a few things on the communication/blog side, then I also need to get back to talk a bit more about the project again.05:41
wpwrakwhat would be great is a forum that connects to the mailing list. but that may be a lot of work05:41
wpwrakyup. plans for ya :)05:41
wolfspraulI gave up on those ideas, not everything should be connected together.05:41
wpwrak(forum/list) the thing is that they both serve exactly the same purpose05:42
wolfspraulI think there is almost no overlap nowadays in the 'mailing list audience' and the 'forum audience'05:43
wolfsprauljust two worls05:43
wolfspraulworlds05:43
wpwrakso you create two disjoint groups. best case is that one group will eventually discover the other and realize that the other place is better05:43
wolfspraulthe mailing lists have their function, their audience that knows how they work, appreciates it, etc.05:43
wolfspraulthe forum is another group of people05:43
wpwraki don't know. there are many very technical places that are fine with fora. likewise, most people who use mailing lists seem to be happy with them.05:44
wpwrakmailing lists are more efficient, that's for sure05:45
wpwraka forum always has this hint that you don't quite want the user to really have all that data05:46
wolfspraulwhich data?05:51
wpwrakthe content of the forum, the messages05:52
wpwrakin a mailing list, you get a copy of everything. in the forum things live inside the forum but usually without a useful means to download them (may even be prohibited by the usage rules)05:53
wolfspraulfair enough05:54
wolfspraulI would be that 99.9% of forum users wouldn't even have the thought that they should download all forum content...05:55
wolfspraulthey just have some problems/issues, and are looking for help05:55
wolfspraulor they find old forum messages after searching, either in the forum search function or via google05:55
wpwraksure. i'm just saying that this is one common limitation of fora05:56
wpwrakby the way, google searches mailing list archives as well :) the important thing there is that you also have a way to quickly get to the answer05:57
wolfsprauldo you think the KiCad developers would be interested in seeing the schhist running?05:59
wolfspraulI don't know anybody there and the Yahoo forums really do turn me off...05:59
wolfspraulI tried to post a few times but there always was this or that problem, then I gave up.05:59
wolfspraulI think schhist is a pretty nice example of what is possible with good free EDA tools06:00
wpwrakdevelopers are now on launchpad, including the list. users are still on yahoo, though06:02
wpwrakand yes, yahoo sucks horribly, i agree06:02
wpwrakit looks more like a users thing than a developers thing. i mean, there's no way this could ever be part of kicad itself.06:07
wolfspraullaunchpad, ok06:07
wolfspraulmaybe I should email them about the /schhist link? do you think they are interested?06:08
wolfspraulI guess they know you by now, since several of your patches were already accepted.06:08
wpwrakyeah, they do. recently, i haven't been very successful getting stuff there, though. i mean, even --plot has been sitting there for more than a year ...06:09
wolfspraulhmm06:11
wolfspraulis it still an active project?06:12
wolfspraulmaybe they just don't like your patches, or what is the reason?06:12
wpwrakkicad ? yes, it's active06:12
wolfspraulof course with you being a C purist, and they try to 'use every possible C++ feature' (quote from their website), I can imagine some issues :-)06:12
wolfspraultrying to use every possible C++ feature is a really really stupid idea though, I hope they fail on that06:13
wpwrakthe --plot patch wasn't clean enough. and they didn't want to accept it as a temporary solution either. of course, the big infrastructure cleanup that would allow it to be done cleanly hasn't happened so far.06:13
wpwrak(c vs. c++) yeah :)06:13
wpwrakoften there's also a schedule problem. i have something that needs solving, but they don't have the time to deal with it. so after a bit of discussion, things get postponed indefinitely.06:14
wpwrakmeanwhile, i find a work-around, so then i don't have an itch to scratch either06:15
viricAs there are some nand experts here... :)09:14
virictuxbrain told me how to make an ubifs image09:15
viricBut can I make any 'nand' file for the qemu '-mtdblock' command then, from that ubifs image? I think I have to prepare a full mtd layout, with the three uboot-kernel-ubifs with proper memory addresses.09:16
viricAny idea?09:16
viricand, NAND in devices is usually mapped to physical addresses like RAM, right?09:18
viric(If anyone knows of a document that would tell me about this, please give a link. I simply could not find all this meanwhile)09:18
rafaviric: do you need to use qemu with mtdblock or you just want to test the image?.. if you dont care if you want to use mtdblock then maybe you just could make a image disk file with an ext2 FS and the userland rootfs inside (so you would boot the system with qemu like if you would have a disk)09:20
mthviric: NAND access is via a controller, it's not mapped directly into memory09:31
mthrafa: how would the guest machine load from the disk then? afaik that's done via IDE emulation, but the NN does not have an IDE controller09:32
rafamth: if you build a nanonote kernel with ide controller it should work.. or qemu just can emulate the nn hardware only? it not is just arch?09:36
viricrafa: I'd like to learn about both09:36
viricrafa: and I want to test specifically the ubifs, whether it boots or not09:36
viricmth: via controller? But... for the CPU, is not all mapped to physical ram?09:37
viricI would not emulate the nn hardware in qemu.09:37
viricI'll use any other mips3209:37
mththe mainline qemu does not emulate the NN afaik,  but there is the qemu-jz that at least emulates the JZ4740, although not exactly the NN specs09:37
mthviric: it's not hard though to add a machine to qemu, if the components are already supported09:37
viricI don't mind much about the jz specific details. Any other mips32 will do, to test the userland09:37
mthI started in support for the Dingoo A320 here: http://github.com/mthuurne/qemu-dingoo09:38
wolfspraulwpwrak: from the 3 ben-wpan variants, the most recent microSD one is atusd, right?09:38
viricAny mips32 will do to test the userland. I wanted to use their default 'malta' system09:38
viricAll my trouble is in the mtdblock09:38
viricmth, rafa: the mtdblock access does not need any kernel support, other than telling the kernel 'what addresses map to what mtdblocks', isn't it?09:39
mthsee hw/mips_dingoo.c09:39
rafamth: I mean.. if viric just want to run the userland.. he could (if qemu supports the cpu/arch) to boot with qemu using whatever hw emulation qemu supports09:39
viricrafa: yes, that is what I plan. The kernel boots fine09:40
viricrafa: I only need to tell qemu "use this mtdblock", and I have to prepare the mtdblock file, which I don't know how to do.09:40
viricI read the pages around ubifs (mtdtools, all that...)09:41
viricand all those tools come without manpages, so I barely know what to do with them09:41
viricok - time for lunch here09:42
viricI'll come later. Thank you09:42
mthviric: I guess there are only two likely formats: either an image containing only the data or an image containing data + oob09:45
mthsince it will be presented as a block device, data-only would be my first guess09:45
mthbut I have no proof for that assumption09:45
mthviric: actually, doesn't qemu have a mode where it translates API calls between architectures?09:52
wpwrakwolfspraul: atusd is the latest one i'm working on, yes. but i'll update atusb too. cntr is something else - it's an arbitrary-precision frequency counter.09:52
mthin that case you wouldn't need an image at all09:52
mthsystem calls, I mean09:52
wpwrakwolfspraul: i built it to measure the clock accuracy. none of my instruments is precise enough to do that correctly.09:52
viricmth: image of what, you mean?10:01
viric'mtdblocks' will be shown as an mtd device, not a block device10:01
mtha NAND image: a file containing the data used for emulating a NAND10:03
viricAh10:03
viricYes, this is what I want10:03
viricI did not understand what you meant about that 'mode that translates....'10:03
mththis might help: http://code.google.com/p/jz-hacking/wiki/qemujz#make_the_nand_flash_image10:04
viricah, I saw this, but this uses scripts of the jz tools10:04
viricI'll have to download them and learn what they do10:04
mththe other mode is userspace emulation: http://boards.dingoonity.org/dingux-development/qemu-mipsel-linux-emulator-with-virtual-framebuffer-device-(aka-dingux-emulator)/10:07
mthnote that if you compile the tools on an x86-64 machine, you have to patch them (see comment I added on the qemu-jz page)10:08
viricBut I'm not looking for any specific jz-things10:09
viricIsn't openwrt doing something like this? I could read the openwrt code...10:09
mththe patch is because of a bug that occurs only on 64-bit systems, it's not JZ related10:13
viricbut maybe that is outdated?10:14
viricI am not using qemu-jz10:14
wolfspraulwpwrak: hmm, OK. but atusd is what might/will become the 802.15.4 module for the Ben and future devices?10:16
mthit's a patch for the image build tool download linked from the qemu-jz page10:16
wolfspraul(sorry I need to simplify a bit, just to get the story...)10:16
mthif you can find a more recent version of that tool, it might be patched10:16
viricok10:16
wpwrakwolfspraul: yes. atusb is the one that goes into the pc.10:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: regarding future devices, if one is to be built into the nanonote, then it would be based closely on the atusd. with a few more signals and some emi filters, though.10:23
wolfspraulok, we get to that then... thanks I have the rough 'big picture' clear now10:25
viricThe 'nanddump' command outputs in what format?10:49
viricbin+oob?10:49
qmasterrrhi12:00
viricI'm trying to use nandsim to get something close to the nanonote nand12:02
qi-bot[commit] carlos: Connecting FPGA GPIOs to U6 (max3223) allowing RS232 serial communication http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/372739512:11
viricI did not succeed12:22
viricnandsim does not look like supporting a nand like that of nanonote12:23
qi-bot[commit] carlos: Merging J6 and J7 in J67 4x2 connector. http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/b99e54213:08
aisaI created a typo-page on the wiki, and I don't believe I have permission to delete pages.16:37
aisaThe page is:16:37
aisahttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/User:AlanPost/Notebook16:38
aisaIt should be User:Alanpost/Notebook, which also exists.16:38
aisaAnyone with wiki-admin privileges around to delete a page for me?16:38
aisawoohoo!  I could not boot my NanoNote off a single 16gb microSD partition, but reformatting to a 2gb partition works.18:26
aisaYay!  I have reflashed my Ben.  I have been fighting to find a block of time to devote to this.18:40
aisaI've been afraid of bricking the thing, and I use it for actually things.  :-)18:40
tuxbraincongrats alsa, the first flashing is always special :)18:41
aisaI realize in doing it, as well, that being able to boot off a microSD is very nice for testing.18:42
bartbesI wonder18:42
aisaI can write all sorts of junk to that card just to see what it does, without affecting my regular environment.18:42
bartbeswhere does it look for the kernel?18:42
aisa/boot/uImage18:42
aisawhich is to say, you write the same kernel you have at /dev/mtd118:43
aisas/you write/you read/18:43
aisathat still didn't make sense.18:43
aisaI'm trying to say it boots a kernel off the microSD.  And that kernel is bit-for-bit the same as if it were on the Ben.18:43
aisaoh good, I resynced my data and vim loads.  I'm at least at the same point I was at.  I've been afraid I'd boot into a system I couldn't actually use.18:47
Action: kristianpaul heating the printer 19:37
Action: wpwrak ducks19:39
kristianpaulheh 3minutes printing, seems this is really small this time19:42
wpwraki'm amazed by how quickly your printing goes19:43
kristianpaul:D19:45
kristianpaulIt is FDM fault19:47
kristianpaulan inacurcay of the open source sofware :p19:47
wpwrakFDM ?19:49
kristianpaulhttps://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Fused_deposition_modeling19:49
wpwrakah, the "printer driver" :)19:52
kristianpaulwpwrak: http://kristianpaul.org/gallery/makerbot/19:56
kristianpaulsome of history :)19:56
kristianpaulit was almost 12 moths ago when arrives19:56
wpwraknice. particularly the thing that looks like a shell (at the end) looks good. smooth surface20:01
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusb_printed.JPG20:02
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusd_beta_side_view.jpg20:04
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusd_case_beta_corner_view.JPG <- ugly part20:05
kristianpauli must said so far i never printed objects so small like this20:06
kristianpauls/so far/until now20:06
wpwrakthe corner looks very "organic" ;-)20:06
kristianpaullol :)20:07
wpwraki think you'll get much better edges if you chamfer them20:07
kristianpaulhmm20:08
kristianpauli forgot that20:08
wpwraknature abhors vacuum, infinite values, and right angles :)20:08
kristianpaulletss try20:08
wpwrakyou'll probably need a fillet on the inside, to maintain the wall thickness20:08
kristianpaulfillet?20:09
kristianpaulwalls are two plastic layers thick20:09
wpwrakhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fillet_(mechanics)20:09
kristianpaulthe problema actually was the botton20:10
kristianpaulis weak20:10
wpwrakhow weak ? bending weak or breaking weak ?20:10
kristianpaulboth .... :)20:10
wpwrakouch !20:10
kristianpaulwell i can fix it in software20:11
kristianpaullet me take a pic20:11
kristianpaulgcode generator software20:11
kristianpaul(fillet) interesting20:16
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusb_botton.JPG20:16
wpwrakah yes, that's a bit too thin. is that 0.5 mm ?20:17
kristianpaulyup20:18
kristianpauli hope20:18
kristianpauli dont have good measurements tools20:18
wpwrak1 mm thickness for top and bottom should be thin enough20:18
wpwrakyeah, a bit difficult to measure. well, you know how thick your filament is ;-)20:19
kristianpaulok20:19
kristianpauli do indeed20:19
kristianpaulhmm i really thinking all over again now that i know what no to do20:20
kristianpauli cant do fillet in a solid wich is result of a bolean operation it seems20:20
wpwrakoh. that would be a serious limitation20:22
kristianpaulwell heekscad have lots of that ;)20:22
wpwrakyou have a point there :)20:22
kristianpauloh wait20:23
kristianpauli talked too fast20:23
kristianpaulhmm20:23
kristianpaulError making fillet: BRep_API: command not done20:24
kristianpaul:/20:24
kristianpaulahh now it works20:24
kristianpaultricky20:26
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusd_filled_test.png20:26
kristianpaulbut the board will not git20:27
kristianpauls/git/fit20:27
kristianpaulhmm20:27
wpwrakbah, connection refused20:27
kristianpaul?20:27
wpwrakah, now it works. the qi-hw server was on strike for a while20:28
kristianpaulheh20:28
wpwrak(fit) part of the exercise is to find out how much extra space i need to take into account for the case :)20:29
wpwrakwhat's the radius of the fillet ? 1 mm ?20:29
kristianpaul220:29
wpwrakoh, huge ! you probably don't need that much20:30
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusd_filled_test.png20:36
wpwrakthat's r=2 mm ?20:38
kristianpaulyup20:38
wpwrakokay, then you have a wall thickness of 2-sqrt(2) mm20:40
wpwrak(in the corner)20:40
kristianpaul:p20:41
wpwrakif you add a fillet with r=1mm, it would be sqrt(2)-1 thicker20:41
wpwrakso 2-sqrt(2)+(sqrt(1)-1) = 1 mm20:42
kristianpaul2 - sqrt(2) + (sqrt(1) - 1) = 0.58578643820:45
kristianpaulthanks to g00gl3 calc20:45
wpwrakerr, should be sqrt(2), not 1 :)20:46
kristianpaulahh :)20:46
kristianpaularggg heeks crashed in the last filled20:48
wpwrakmurphy smiles at you :)20:49
wpwrakso, rigol now make also high-speed scopes. ds6104, 1 GHz, 5 GSa/s, 4 channels, 140 MSa buffer. nice :)20:56
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusd_filled_test.png20:58
kristianpaul1mm vs 2mm20:58
kristianpaulwow20:59
kristianpaul11261 !!20:59
kristianpauljhahaha20:59
wpwrakthe 6064 is a little less expensive. the 6104 isn't all 1 GHz anyway (they all cheat there)21:00
wpwrakhmm, the shapes don't look quite right. the inside and the outside should always have the same distance.  your corners look a little fatter21:02
kristianpaulfor both solids?21:05
wpwrakat least it looks like this. in the one below, it's inner and outer radius = 1 mm, right ? and in the upper rin = 1 mm, rout = 2 mm ?21:06
kristianpaulwait i'll repeat21:07
wpwrakit's a pity that chamfer isn't scriptable (yet).  was about to write "that these functions", but then i saw that fillet was added today ;)21:14
kristianpauli wonder what is scriptable and what can i do with heekscad script engine21:15
kristianpaul0.13.1 my heekcad svesion21:16
wpwrakthe basics are all scriptable. e.g., i made the counterweights with a script21:16
kristianpaulyou have it?21:16
kristianpaulin the git?21:16
kristianpaulqi one i meant21:17
wpwrakhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-counterweight/source/tree/master/cw.py21:17
kristianpaulohh21:17
kristianpaulwhy i never pad enought atention to this thing ;)21:18
kristianpaulpad/paid21:18
kristianpaulyou milled all the counterweights?21:20
wpwraki made a wooden mold. then i cast them.21:21
kristianpaulohh21:21
kristianpaulwich of this scripts is loaded usign heeks python?21:22
kristianpauli dont see import from HeeksCad...21:23
kristianpaulit directly mills?21:23
wpwrakyou run it in the console. import cw21:23
kristianpaulahh heekscad dvd21:23
kristianpaulcnc21:23
wpwrakor reload(cw)21:23
wpwrak(first time it's import, then reload)21:23
kristianpauli dont use heekscad cnc for obvious reasons :)21:23
kristianpauli was trying heekspython the other day no more..21:24
wpwrakthe script doesn't set up the mill. that has to be done manually (unfortunately)21:24
kristianpaulbut it draws using the cnc heekscad engine if wen call it like that?21:24
wpwrakyes21:27
kristianpauli see21:27
wpwraki found some pictures. lemme clean them up a bit ..21:28
ebaushi out there I've installed debian succesfully but can't make sound work I'm using mp3blaster21:30
kristianpaulhi21:30
ebausany suggestions?21:30
kristianpaulsorry i dont use debian on the ben afaik21:31
kristianpaulbut i think i saw that issue in the mail lists21:31
kristianpaulwolfspraul: hi21:32
ebausjust by change do you know if there's a sound device defined in openwrt /dev ?21:32
kristianpaulwolfspraul: i friend ask me about a device with two xbusrt chips, and also about if this techonology is proven to work on industrial enviroments, do you have comments about it?21:33
kristianpaulwait i can check wolfspraul21:33
kristianpaulebaus:21:33
kristianpaulebaus: thereis a /dev/snd21:35
kristianpaulwith21:35
kristianpaulcontrolC0 pcmC0D0p pcmC0D0c timer21:35
wpwrakhttp://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/cw/21:36
kristianpaulgreat21:37
kristianpaulis that a PSU on the estufa?21:38
ebausthanks21:38
kristianpauls/stufa/stove21:39
kristianpauls/stove/cooker21:39
wpwrakyeah, that's a lab power supply. needed something big and has one laying around nearby ;-)21:40
kristianpaulwich meetal is it?21:41
wpwrakplumbing solder, 33% tin, 67% lead21:41
kristianpaulok 1mm or 2mm?21:43
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusd_filled_test.png21:44
kristianpaulwpwrak: had you tried openscad?21:44
wpwrakno. never heard of it21:44
kristianpaulhttp://openscad.org/21:45
wpwrak"The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller" ;-))21:45
kristianpaulyup21:45
kristianpaulmaybe you like more that heeks21:45
wpwraksounds cool21:46
kristianpauli was trying was great,  i just have some problems with some libraries licenses and lack of time to test in depth21:46
wpwrakaah. you made rin = rout = 1 mm and rin = rout = 2 mm ?21:46
kristianpaulyes21:46
kristianpaulsecond time21:46
wolfspraulkristianpaul: two chips? industrial?21:50
wolfsprauldon't understand21:50
wolfspraulI'm not aware of any device with two XBurst on one PCB21:50
kristianpaulok21:50
kristianpaulindustrial temperatures21:50
wolfspraulI think the R&D cost of such a SMP solution would be so high that none of the normal consumer electronics people using XBurst would do it21:50
kristianpaulby then aplications21:50
wolfspraulindustrial?21:51
wolfspraultemperature range? don't know21:51
kristianpauloh sorry21:51
kristianpaulindustry21:51
kristianpaulok21:51
wpwrakkristianpaul: i think you should try rin = 1 mm, rout = 2 mm. that should give perfectly parallel insides and outsides21:52
kristianpaullet see21:53
wpwrakopenscad looks very cool. kinda like pov-ray, but with an output one can "make".21:53
kristianpaulwpwrak: yes now is parallel21:57
wpwrakyeah !! ;-)21:59
kristianpaulas you can see i'm not good with geometry latelly21:59
kristianpauli''ll back to 1mm think wall in the top and botton22:06
wpwrakyeah, that should be okay. even the ben doesn't have walls that thin :)22:08
wpwrakthe thinnest i've measured were 0.8 mm22:09
kristianpaulahh22:10
kristianpaulgood starting point22:11
wpwrakcd ben-scans/sfy22:13
wpwrakfor n in *.sfy; do echo -en $n '\t';  sed '/^[0-9.]*$/p;d' $n; done22:13
wpwrakthis tells you all the material thicknesss i've measured22:14
kristianpaul5mm !22:20
wpwrakwhere ?22:22
wpwrakah, overall thickness22:22
kristianpaultop to bottom22:23
kristianpaulwait22:23
wpwrakhmm. 1+0.5+0.8+1.2+1 should be less. only 4.5 mm22:23
Action: Textmode huggles kristianpaul 22:25
kristianpaulTextmode: hello :)22:25
kristianpaulwpwrak: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Atusd_filled_test.png22:25
wpwrakhmm. the 0.5 mm of space below the pcb. is it really empty ?22:27
wpwrakthis looks more like a lot of empty space above the pcb, but none below22:27
kristianpaulwell PCB space is 1mm actually22:29
wpwrakso how tall is the hole ?22:30
wpwrak1 mm, no ?22:30
kristianpaul~22:30
wpwrakthat's not quite enough. there has to be 0.5 mm of air above the "floor". then there's the pcb (0.8 mm)22:31
kristianpaulhmm22:31
wpwrakmaybe it's time to switch to openscad, so that all the adjustments are quicker to make ;)22:32
kristianpaul:)22:32
kristianpauli'll do if you found how to do parametric fillet22:33
wpwrakthat's actually what i hate about most interactive cad programs - when you need to experiment and tweak things, it gets quite hellish with lots and lots of manual repetitions22:33
kristianpaulindeed22:33
wpwrakseems that there's no built-in fillet/chamfer22:36
kristianpaulwait22:36
kristianpaulyou dont22:36
wpwrakyou could of course construct it "manually" ...22:37
kristianpaulcan you do that in SVG or QCAD?22:37
kristianpauland is just matter of extrude22:37
wpwrakno idea :)22:37
kristianpaul:p22:38
wpwraki tried qcad once. after a few frustrating hours, i hurled into a corner, virtually speaking, and drew the damn thing in fped :)22:38
kristianpaullol22:38
kristianpaulcan you draw something like a filled in fped?22:39
kristianpaulor inkscape...22:40
kristianpaulwhat a mess ;)22:40
kristianpauli need re-think my prefered cad sofware indeed22:40
wpwrak(fped) just a sec ...22:41
wpwrakhere you are: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/fillet.fpd22:43
wpwrakit's of course all lines. fped doesn't have real 2D shapes for drawing (except for pads and holes, but they're less flexible)22:45
kristianpaulahh but it dint export to cad fomats..22:45
kristianpaulheh22:45
wpwrakonly kicad and ps export, true. of course, it can be extended ... :)22:46
kristianpauldamm i fell like drawing in pixels when i tought how fix the design22:48
wpwrak;-)22:48
qi-bot[commit] kristianpaul: Added filled case version http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/76322b923:13
kristianpaulahh but comment :/23:14
kristianpauls/but/bad23:14
kristianpaulwpwrak: http://blog.makerbot.com/2010/10/01/bronze-casting-with-the-crew-of-qc-colab/23:25
wpwrakkristianpaul: nice furnace :)23:45
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