#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2010-09-28

rozzinSo, shouldn't I at least put a blob of non-conductive epoxy or something on the ends of the wires, if I sever them at the microphone?00:02
rozzinOops--it does look like I broke one of those little latches in the keyboard-bezel.00:03
wolfspraullatches in the keyboard bezel00:06
wolfsprauldon't understand00:06
rozzinThe 5 things around the edge, which make the top part of the case snap onto the bottom part.00:08
rozzinThese: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/thumb/0/05/Disassemble_case_detail_2.JPG/300px-Disassemble_case_detail_2.JPG00:10
rozzinWell, actually..., this one: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Disassemble_case_detail_1.JPG00:10
rozzinSeems I'm not the only one--the one that's broken in that image, is the exact same one that I broke--in exactly the same way :)00:11
wolfspraulah yes00:31
wolfspraulthey break easily, it's on the list of mechanical annoyances to do better in the next major hardware revision00:31
wolfspraulthere is a total of 5 of them, they are not all really necessary because there are also 4 screws holding it down00:32
rozzinMost of them were just fine;00:32
wolfspraulbut if the one next to the speaker breaks (like in that picture), you will probably see a bit wider opening between the case parts00:32
rozzinit's just the one in the corner that snapped,00:32
rozzinbecause the corner couldn't flex as well as the sides :)00:32
wolfspraulyeah. it will not impact functionality, only if you look there you will see the top and bottom case parts are not as tightly together as they should00:33
rozzinThat's what I figured.00:33
rozzinThere--all fixed.00:54
rozzinwolfspraul: On the whole, I think you guys did a pretty awesome job.00:54
wolfspraulwe have ambitious plans, hopefully with all the support here we can make it...00:55
wolfspraulthank you for buying a NanoNote!00:55
rozzinIt's a *beautiful* device, both functionally and aesthetically,00:56
rozzinand I'm quite impressed by that kind of general `fit and finish' actually managing to coexist with the capacity of being easily disassembled *and* reassembled.00:58
rozzinThat the only thing that broke in the process was that (mostly superfluous) corner latch.01:00
wolfspraulwe learnt a lot01:01
wolfspraulfirst there is a lot of glue still01:02
wolfspraulwant to reduce that to zero next time01:02
wolfspraultop cover is glued on the piece beneath it01:02
wolfspraul"Qi Hardware" bezel is glued01:02
wolfspraulmetal piece over speaker is glued01:02
wolfspraulsmall rubber feet are glued (and can fall off)01:02
wolfspraulthose little latches around the edge are bad01:03
wolfspraulhinge cannot be tightened after use, so it will just wear out and that's it01:03
wolfspraulwe'll get to all this :-)01:04
rozzinFine by me.01:07
rozzinThe most important parts are in good shape.01:07
wolfspraulthe PC sheet over the LCD is also glued01:08
rozzinNot that I'm saying `here are some laurels, be complacent', of course :)01:08
wolfspraulbut overall I also like the device01:08
wolfspraulI like to start with something real, start selling it01:08
wolfspraulthat gives gravity to all other activities01:08
rozzinYes indeed.01:09
wolfspraulit's easy to critizize things out of the air, when you do nothing01:09
wolfspraulbut once you start, you realize everything has tradeoffs01:09
wolfsprauland improving the bottom line is actually hard :-)01:09
wolfspraulbut that's the fun part01:09
wolfsprauland I do think the little Ben NanoNote is a worthwhile starting point...01:10
rozzinI actually like that it's as simplistic as it is--no radios or anything.01:10
rozzinI'm going to be sad if (when) you guys end up discontinuing Ben, down the road, in favour of more featureful models.01:11
rozzinMaybe I should stock up, now... :)01:11
wolfspraulrozzin: he. no worries. we are slow :-)01:14
rozzinI actually have some nice photographs to contribute to the disassembling-guide, now.01:21
rozzinThat'll have to wait until tomorrow, though--it's far past bedtime, here.01:22
rozzinwolfspraul: Thanks for everthing :)01:22
wpwrakrozzin[zzz]: since you're already taking the ben apart, why not unsolder the microphone properly ? that way, you can attach it again in case you need it later.02:51
wpwrakrozzin[zzz]: here's a view of the bottom of the PCB (you can ignore the extra board shown in the image): http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/idbg-v2-install.jpg02:52
qwebirc15239Hi Wolfang, I'm Pietro and I'm ready to apply your instruction to 'resuscitate' my Nanonote03:07
wolfspraulqwebirc15239: cool03:08
wolfspraulwhat are your current symptoms?03:08
wolfspraultried reflashing, now screen is always dark?03:08
wolfspraulI suggest we go straight to the usb-boot reflashing03:09
wolfspraulwhat do you think?03:09
qwebirc15239after the error I made (flashing it alway at the wrong offset  2048) it does not turn on, so I don't know how to flash it03:09
wolfspraulwell there must have been some more03:10
wolfspraulbut let's see03:10
wolfspraulare you ready?03:10
wolfspraultake out the battery03:10
wolfspraulunplug the USB cable, leave it plugged into your computer03:10
wolfspraulon your computer, run 'watch lsusb'03:10
wolfspraulclose your nanonote, put it on the table upside down (empty battery compartment facing you)03:11
wolfspraulput the carbonized rubber button over the 'usb boot' pins, and press down firmly03:11
wolfspraul'firmly' means quite hard, no hesitation. just don't crush the device in hulk style...03:12
wolfspraulthen, while you are holding the carbonized rubber button pressed down, plug the usb cable in from the side (you can leave the nanonote closed, no problem)03:12
wolfspraulkeep holding the button down even 1-2 seconds after plugging the usb cable in03:12
wolfspraulthen you can let the carbonized rubber button go (keep the usb cable plugged in), and look at your computer, the 'watch lsusb' output03:13
wolfspraulcheck whether you see a number 601a:4740 showing up03:13
qwebirc15239ok, you are a magician03:13
qwebirc15239now I can reflash it!!!03:14
wolfspraulwell, let's see. first I want to see something on the lcm :-)03:14
wolfspraulwe had a few cases with bad lcm recently03:14
wolfspraulso let's continue03:14
wolfspraulfor now, only reflash u-boot03:14
wolfspraullet's do it manually03:14
wolfspraulon your computer, run 'usbboot'03:14
wolfspraulthen you go into the usbboot console03:14
wolfspraulnow type 'boot'03:14
wolfspraulthen 'nerase 0 4096 0 0'03:14
wolfsprauldo the 'boot' and 'nerase' commands run through?03:15
wolfspraulafter the nerase, flash u-boot into page 0 "nprog 0 openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.bin 0 0 -n"03:15
wolfspraulif you are not in the directory where u-boot.bin is, exit usbboot, go to that directly, start usbboot again03:16
wolfspraulno need to run the 'boot' and 'nerase' commands again03:16
wolfspraulbtw, that nerase will erase the entire nand, so don't repeat it later when flashing the kernel or rootfs03:16
wolfspraulafter you have flashed u-boot, exist usbboot and unplug the usb cable03:16
wolfspraulopen your nanonote, plug in the usb cable03:16
wolfspraulyou should see u-boot on the lcd, and it should complain about not finding a kernel03:17
qwebirc15239please wait, I'm in trouble exexcuting nprog03:18
qwebirc15239u-boot has been flashed, with " Finish! (len 454656 start_page 0 page_num 111)"; I made  unplug and plug again, but no reactions03:22
wolfspraulunplug the cable for 1 minute03:23
qwebirc15239ok, now I'm waiting03:23
wolfspraulthere is a hardware reset button too on the bottom of the device03:24
wolfspraulbut let's just wait a bit03:24
wolfspraulafter you plug in the usb cable, if it doesn't turn on you can also try to press the power-on button for several seconds, even 503:25
wolfspraulif that still doesn't work, unplug the cable again, wait 10 seconds or so03:26
wolfspraulrun 'watch lsusb' on your notebook03:26
wolfspraulhold down the 'u' button on the NanoNote, and keep it pressed, then plug in the usb cable03:27
wolfspraulsee whether 0x601a:4740 shows up on the host03:27
qwebirc15239sorry, no reactions03:29
wpwrakwolfspraul: i wonder if you have a flowchart sitting next to your computer by now ;-)03:29
wolfspraulqwebirc15239: let's reflash the rest first03:29
wolfspraulunplug the usb cable03:29
wolfspraulrun 'watch lsusb' on the host03:29
wolfspraulpress the 'u' button on the nanonote, keep it pressed, plug in the usb cable03:30
wolfsprauldo you see 601a:4740 on your host?03:30
wolfspraulthen we flash with the usb-boot pins :-)03:31
wolfspraulunplug the usb cable03:31
wolfspraulclose nanonote, turn upside down03:31
wolfspraulrun 'watch lsusb' on host03:31
wolfspraulpress carbonized rubber button over usb-boot pins, hold it there, plug usb cable in03:32
wolfspraulcheck whether 601a:4740 appears on host03:32
wolfspraulby the way, why do you run the nprog commands manually?03:33
wolfspraulnot that I like the script, but we have a reflash_ben.sh script that most people use03:33
wolfspraulin the email you sent me, you had the wrong offsets and I am wondering where they are coming from03:34
wolfspraulwhere did you download u-boot/kernel/rootfs from?03:34
wolfspraulmaybe now that you have 601a:4740 on your host, you can try to just run reflash_ben.sh ?03:34
wolfspraulor do you want to run the nprog commands manually?03:35
qwebirc15239I tried it, but it stopped in error, informing me that the Nanonote was not replying something; rootfs have been dowloaded by reflash_ben.sh and I use those03:35
wolfspraulok then03:35
wolfspraullet's try manual commands03:35
wolfspraulgo to the directory where you have u-boot, uImage and rootfs03:36
wolfspraulstart 'usbboot'03:36
wolfspraulrun 'boot'03:36
wolfspraulthen 'nerase 0 4096 0 0'03:36
wpwrakwolfspraul: does reflash.sh download new images ? (idea: make it download a "known to be safe even if ancient" set of images by default. add some option or interactive query to download an update of itself, maybe with another name, that does download more current things. that way, you may have less trouble with the cases where nothing seems to work.)03:36
wolfspraulthen 'nprog 0 u-boot.bin 0 0 -n'03:36
wolfspraulwpwrak: that script already has too much magic in it for me03:36
wpwrakwolfspraul: ;-))03:36
wolfspraulthat's why I don't trust it03:37
wolfspraulqwebirc15239: then 'nprog 1024 uImage.bin 0 0 -n'03:37
wolfspraulfinally 'nprog 2048 root.ubi 0 0 -n'03:37
wolfspraul(I shortened the filenames, I think it's clear what it should be)03:37
wolfspraulthe nprog 2048 root.ubi might take 10-15 minutes03:38
qwebirc15239ok, I'll do all that and then I'll be back to the irc03:38
wpwrakwolfspraul: "son of the devirginator" then ;-) (not sure if you ever looked at that one. it was a bit before your time at OM, though they may have still used it)03:38
wolfspraulif you have another computer with Linux, try reflashing from there too03:39
wolfspraulfirst you say reflash_ben.sh failed with some error03:39
wolfspraulthen we just reflashed u-boot, but it seems didn't really arrive correctly in NAND03:39
wolfspraulotherwise at least the 'u' keypress should have worked03:39
wolfspraulto save time, you can focus on first flashing u-boot03:39
wolfspraulthe screen must turn on, and u-boot will complain about not finding a kernel03:40
wolfspraulhe, we can try my beloved xbboot as well03:40
wolfspraulare you up for a little experiment?03:40
wolfspraultry running 'xbboot' on your computer03:41
wolfsprauldo you have it installed?03:41
qwebirc15239yes, I've it03:42
wolfsprauldownload this file: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-zImage-initramfs.bin03:42
wolfspraulthen get your nanonote into a fresh booted 601a:4740 state, and run 'xbboot -u 0x80600000 ...-initramfs.bin'03:43
wolfspraulwith 'fresh booted' I mean unplug cable, turn around, short usb-boot pins, replug cable, see 601a:4740 appearing...03:44
wolfspraulok then you run xbboot with that downloaded file03:46
wolfspraulwhat happens?03:46
wolfspraulxbboot -u 0x80600000 ...-initramfs.bin03:46
qwebirc15239 sudo xbboot openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-zImage-initramfs.bin replies Error - unknown vendor request openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-zImage-initramfs.bin - run with --help to see all requests03:47
wolfsprauldid you see the parameter I posted03:47
wolfspraulxbboot -u 0x8060000003:47
qwebirc15239ok I've seen now the instructions, sorry03:47
wolfspraulthen the filename03:48
wolfspraulthis will (should) load a little rescue system directly into the memory of your NanoNote, and execute it there03:48
wolfspraulwell, if it works...03:48
wolfspraulwhat happens?03:49
qwebirc15239ok, bulk_write successfully wrote 3825664 bytes.03:50
wolfsprauldo you see anything on the nanonote? (keep the usb cable plugged in)03:50
qwebirc15239no, dark; do I've to press power?03:51
qwebirc15239now wathc lsusb shows03:52
wolfspraulwhat does it show?03:52
qwebirc15239Bus 001 Device 010: ID 0525:a4a2 Netchip Technology, Inc. Linux-USB Ethernet/RNDnIS Gadget03:53
wolfspraulthat just appeared?03:53
qwebirc15239yes, after xbboot03:54
wolfspraulhmm. that's a strong indication that there is a hardware problem with your LCM.03:54
wolfspraulyou need to send it in, we'll fix it. where did you buy the device?03:54
qwebirc15239but before my erros (wrong offsets) it was working; I started flashin to upload the graphic system and I made a disaster ...03:55
wolfspraulyes I understand03:55
qwebirc15239directly via web from you03:56
wolfspraulI am also surprised about how often a reflash results in (seemingly) LCM problems03:56
wolfspraulmaybe it's not an LCM problem after all03:56
wolfspraulbut in this xbboot case, it seems Linux really booted up03:56
qwebirc15239My idea: I'll redo in a calm way your instructions from the beginning and then I'll inform you03:56
wolfspraulbut LCM stays dark? afaik that initramfs does enable the lcm03:57
wpwrakwolfspraul: could pressing hard on usb_boot trigger some latent mechanical problem ?03:57
wolfspraulyou can try reflashing from another computer03:57
wolfspraulI am wondering why your original reflash failed.03:57
wolfspraulqwebirc15239: where did you buy the device?03:57
qwebirc15239I don't press too hard03:57
wolfspraulwpwrak: don't know03:58
wpwrakqwebirc15239: maybe try the whole flashing process, with u-boot, kernel, and rootfs, and see how this goes.03:58
qwebirc15239yes, in the next few hours; then I'll send you an email; many many thanks for your help03:59
wolfspraulno problem thanks for your patience03:59
wolfspraulwe'll get it fixed again, no worries03:59
wolfsprauland you get more confident reflashing stuff, also nice03:59
wolfspraulqwebirc15239: where did you buy the device?04:00
wolfspraulqwebirc15239: btw, you don't need to hurry. there is no warranty tricks or anything. you have time. if you cannot get your nanonote back alive, we will fix or replace it.04:01
qwebirc15239I bought it directly from qi-hadrware, via web; I'll try to solve the problem and thean I'll be back to you04:03
wolfspraulah OK, which country are you in?04:03
wolfsprauland you bought from our Hong Kong online shop?04:04
wolfspraulmaybe from Tuxbrain04:04
wolfspraulwe'll figure it out...04:04
qwebirc15239my confrimation emails come from hackable-devices.org04:07
qwebirc15239see you later04:07
qwebirc13861how can I access serial port of Nanonote to connect with my PC04:10
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw, the webirc instructions should probably include a suggestion to use /nick. it does get a bit confusing ...04:11
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw2, have you actually posted to the list about how the 2nd 1k run went ?04:14
wolfspraulwpwrak: not yet, have to write the mail...04:16
wolfspraulactually if we change the url to not use 'randomnick' then people have to choose a nick first04:17
wolfspraulit's a tradeoff between '1-click' and something that is better in the long run04:17
wolfspraulI figure the barrier of entry should be as low as possible, hence the url with the randomnick04:17
wpwrak(randomnick) ah, that's why. well, as i said, it does get confusing with several qwebircs showing up regularly04:18
wolfspraulbut like I said, you add that one additional form and many people will not make it here at all :-)04:19
wolfspraulyou can ignore that or explain it with 'their' lack of whatever, or you lower the barrier so that they do show up here04:19
wpwrakalso, in a way, it dehumanizes them, making others more likely to ignore them04:19
wolfspraulraise the barrier of entry and they will not show up at all04:20
wolfspraulof course they still exist, just you don't see them anymore04:20
wpwrakwell, one extra question shouldn't be *that* evil :)04:20
wolfspraulwe should do a test with 100 randomly chosen people from the streets of Buenos Aires04:20
wpwrakor is the nick choice particularly awkward ?04:20
wolfspraulyou would be surprised about the loss04:21
wolfspraulno just another form04:21
wolfspraulof course you better not choose a nick that is already in use or registered at freenode, then you probably get more forms04:21
wolfspraulwe could display a welcome message, I think that would be helpful04:21
wolfspraulsome people click on that link, but then they don't know what to do04:22
wpwrakhmm, considering that having to sign up for any kind of forum is already the standard experience, i'm not so sure it should be overly confusing04:24
xiangfu_awayqwebirc13861: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Serial_console04:24
wpwrakalso, you can add a troubleshooting mail address next to the IRC instructions. see how much you get :)04:24
wolfspraulwpwrak: the run went well04:26
wolfspraulthe only outstanding problem is a weird USB bug, maybe on the electrical side, maybe in the 4720 silicon04:26
wolfspraullong story04:26
wpwrakoh, a new bug ?04:27
wolfspraullike last time, we chose to just ignore this bug and discard the board04:27
wolfspraulit's a long story04:27
wolfspraulproduction bugs first of all typically only show on some devices04:27
wolfspraulthat makes it a production bug04:27
wolfspraullast time we had a device where the rightmost column of keys wouldn't work04:27
wpwrak"rinse and repeat" goes a long way. particularly at such small numbers ;)04:27
wolfspraulbut they did work with the proprietary software04:27
wpwrakheh ;-)04:28
wolfspraul1 out of 1000, and it did not work with our software04:28
wolfspraulthat's normal04:28
wolfspraulthis time I have a device that issues a 'interrupt 80' flood04:28
wolfspraultook it out, send to xiangfu04:28
wolfspraulbut no time to study right now04:28
wolfspraulwho knows could be anything04:28
wolfspraulhardware is not binary04:28
wolfspraulas you know04:28
wolfsprauleverything has tolerances, nothing is 100% precise04:28
wolfspraulthe bottom line is that I'm happy :-)04:29
wolfspraulit was obvious that our software got a lot better04:29
wolfspraulmuch less strange NAND behavior04:29
wolfspraulmaybe I had 5 devices or so where flashing caused an error, and just redoing the whole flashing from scratch would fix it04:29
wolfspraulon the first run that was more like 50 :-)04:29
wolfspraulthe flashing throughput was also increased, everything got a little better04:30
wolfspraullast time 3 days, 280+320+36004:30
wolfspraulthis time on the first day we already flashed 640, and started only at about 3 PM04:30
wolfspraulI have many ideas now how to improve things more...04:31
wolfspraulmany little bugs here and there04:31
wolfspraul1000 fully tested and flashed nanos are being shipped to HK this week, any day now04:31
wpwrakwith 1k/day you're good to handle a lot, particularly if you can switch from wolfgang-days to chinese-factory-worker-days :)04:32
wolfspraulwhat is a wolfgang-day and how does it differ from a chinese-factory-worker-day?04:32
wolfspraulI take the liberty to typically show up a bit late, they cannot :-)04:33
wpwrakthe latter are available in larger quantity and less valuable :)04:33
wolfspraulbut on the other end they easily beat me, crazy as it is. stay until 2-3 AM, one time even 6.30 AM04:33
wpwraknot bad :)04:33
wolfspraulah yes, it's already at the point where they could do it04:33
wolfspraulbut I like to see reality once in a while04:34
wolfspraulnothing beats hands-on experience04:34
wolfspraulalso on the testing side, I have many ideas now how to automate this whole thing04:34
wolfspraulactually Linux is quite suitable for it04:34
wolfspraulgood scripting04:34
wolfspraulcan output audio over the speaker, record it over the microphone, compare, etc.04:34
wolfspraulthat's for later...04:35
wpwrakyup. also, doing it yourself helps to identify problems the factory may never report04:38
wpwrakand automation is lovely for sure :)04:38
wolfspraulwpwrak: ah, for the ben-wpan RF lab. I'm up for the challenge. If you think it's ready, I suggest you email what you want to have tested to the list.04:38
wolfspraulthen you need to ship one board to Adam, or actually we can even try for him to make some already, if you think the chances of this being already somewhat usable by others are high enough.04:39
wolfspraulof course if he needs to make them, it will slow things down04:39
wolfspraulthen we prepare a little testing setup, some scripts, and Adam goes to an RF lab and we see what we can get out of it04:39
wpwrakkewl. i'm currently investigating what rf lab options i have around here. i'd like to at least tune the antenna first. that affects overall physical size and all that.04:41
wolfspraulmost important for me (or Adam) is to know what you actually want to have tested04:41
wolfspraulbut writing that up should be a good thing anyhow04:41
wpwraki'm less worried about spectrum byproducts. picking the right components should largely avoid them. and i'm now pretty conservative about them. i want to switch baluns, though. the one i'm currently using is quite expensive. (a custom design for this transceiver, made in germany)04:42
wolfspraulright now all I know is "Werner wants to have the antenna tested", but that's a little weak on the details :-)04:42
wpwrakthere's one that's about half the price, still specifically for this chip, from a us company04:42
wolfspraulwe can also look for some Chinese or Asian baluns?04:43
wolfspraulif Chinese is scary (it is to me), then maybe Korean or Japanese could be a good compromise04:43
wpwrakthe tricky bit about the antenna is that it's test, adjust (new pcb), test, etc.04:43
wpwrakthose baluns are optimized for this chip. don't now if there are any from other sources. probably not.04:43
wpwrakthere are "generaL" baluns but then need more rf tuning. also, with the extra components, they're probably not even much cheaper.04:44
wolfspraulwhat is a 'balun' after all?04:44
wolfspraulwhat are the biggest drivers of cost on the board right now?04:44
wpwrakit adapts the differential output of the chip to the antenna04:44
wolfspraulhow much are all components roughly, right now (without pcb)?04:45
wpwrakwolfspraul: qty =1 ? 10 ? 100 ?04:45
wolfsprauldigikey > 10004:45
wpwrakwhat's with the "cheap" balun04:46
wpwrakthe other is about twice the price04:46
wolfspraulah not too bad04:47
wolfspraulthe rf ic is 2.20 USD, the balun 67 cents04:47
wpwraki may have to tweak some caps. the ones on the list are okay according to what atmel specify, but then the spec may not tell the whole truth. so maybe ten cents per unit more.04:47
wpwraki like the price :)04:48
wpwrakthere's one more item i may add. that would be a demultiplexer for a control signal that i'm currently ignoring04:48
wolfspraulwell to me the atmel is still an 'expensive' chip, but definitely this is a great starting point04:49
wolfsprauland unlike Ron thinks, we will not start our own home-grown RF ICs now...04:49
wolfspraulthat 67 cents balun is already the cheaper one you are looking at, or the more expensive one?04:49
wpwrakin theory, the signal could be important. in practice, i'm less sure. first of all, it may be possible to do completely without it and just tweak via some other signals. second, we may not be able to use the functionality it controls (very precise timing) anyway.04:49
wpwrak(that is, not without a dedicated mcu with very tight response time and such)04:50
wolfspraulah you wrote it already, sorry04:50
wolfspraulso the other one is 1.30 USD04:50
wpwrak(home-grown) naw, ron got that right04:50
wolfspraulsure if it works switching to that cheaper balun makes sense04:51
wpwrakit's actually more. just checked. USD 1.82750@10004:51
wolfspraulalmost 3 times04:51
wpwrakan expensive beast04:51
wpwrakif you compare http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/schhist/atusd/pdf_head/atusd.pdf04:52
wpwrakand http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/schhist/atusb/pdf_head/RF.pdf04:52
wpwrakthe circuit between chip and antenna is the single-chip balun in one case (plus two capacitors and a just-in-case resistor)04:53
wpwrakin the other, it's six components for balun plus filter04:54
wpwrak(the dc blocking cap at the end in atusb, C3, probably isn't necessary)04:54
wolfspraulhmm, I see04:55
wpwrakso the integrated balun removes quite a bit of stuff. stuff that needs tuning and such. tuning with very high-end equipment.04:55
wolfspraulwpwrak: so you are saying maybe you will stay with the 1.87 USD balun in the end?04:58
wolfspraulalso OK, don't kill yourself04:58
wpwrakpov-ray can sometimes be funny. the aspect ratio changes when you change the size of the projection area. clever. so just cropping is harder than one would expect. and, of course, it explains why i was getting strange distortions all the time :)04:58
wpwrakno, i want the cheap balun04:58
wpwrakbut i don't want to go back to a set of discrete components, like in the first version of atusb04:59
wpwrakthe cheap balun is on my shopping list :) wouldn't want to expect it to work without actually testing it. though it should be fine "out of the box".05:00
wolfsprauloh I see. those 2 schematics are not expensive balun vs. cheap balun, but expensive balun vs. self-made balun?///05:03
wpwrakyup. the cheap one only became available at digi-key a few days ago, so i first tried to avoid the expensive one. but then i realized that this made the design just too messy.05:05
wolfspraulgot it05:05
wpwrakalso considering the limitations of my pcb process. i.e., i can't make particularly good vias.05:06
wpwrakindustrial pcb makers will have kittens with the shape of the board ;-)05:07
wpwrakso .. with wpan, my schedule is to a) order the cheap balun, and b) try to get some antenna testing and adjustment done around here. once all this is done, then adam can have fun with it05:12
wpwraki probably won't order the cheap balun this week but wait until i have another item to add. but that one needs a test circuit, which in turn needs the mill. so there's a bit of a dependency chain.05:13
wpwrakbut i can move ahead with the antenna testing without waiting for the balun05:14
wpwrakwith lateral views: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ben-scans/ben.jpg05:17
wolfspraulcan you also add a 'from bottom' view?05:19
qwebirc13861xiangfu_away : Ihave gone through this link but nothing05:20
qwebirc13861I am using Max232 for converison05:20
xiangfu_awayqwebirc13861: you need a TTL -- RS232 converter05:22
qwebirc13861using Max232 for that only05:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: ah, you want to read the "micro sd" ;-)05:23
wpwrakwait, lemme fix the bottom edge ...05:25
wpwraknow it's better. the lighting still suck, though.05:27
xiangfu_awayqwebirc13861: I don't know much about Max232. there should be some output when NanoNote boot.05:31
qwebirc13861there is a ttl output on Tx and Rx points while using minicom but during conversion from TTL to 232 no output05:33
qwebirc13861xiangfu_away> : who can guide me for this05:33
xiangfu_awayqwebirc13861: what you mean 'during conversion' .05:35
qwebirc13861at TTL to 232 converter level05:36
wpwrakqwebirc13861: is the "ttl" (3.3 V) signal still there when you connect the converter ? does the converter actually work (without the ben) ?05:36
Action: xiangfu_away need offline for dinner. see you later 05:37
wolfspraulwpwrak: [ben-bottom] is there a shadow on some parts?05:38
wolfspraullooks good though05:38
wpwrakyes, lots of shadows. and the ambient light (to make the shadows go away) doesn't work too well. if i make it stronger, i don't get much shadow at all.05:41
wpwrakthere's proabably a way to make light just penetrate objects. so each would look as if rendered separately, sort of an engineering view.05:43
wpwrakor just make then semi-transparent, the usual ray tracing show-off kind of thing :)05:43
wpwrakbut one thing after the other. first, i want to beat solidify into a shape that makes it usable for others05:44
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added "new" along with its paraphernalia. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/26beb8a05:48
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: grr http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/dbc736005:48
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Solidified the bottom shell. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/03e6a5405:48
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Corrected aspect ratio, added lateral views, and improved Makefile. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/43b369405:48
wpwrakoops. "grr" should have been rebased ;-)05:49
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw, the plan for the case scans is to do the pcbs now, and then battery. not quite sure what to do about the lcd. i don't have an lcd without pcb. one option is to just make a rectangular block. another option would be to scan the pcb+lcd combo (i already have half of it), subtract the pcb, and see if this comes out right.06:01
wpwrakwolfspraul: same thing with the sponge. i'm not sure if i can do much with the smaller components, cover lock, led rubber, and such. they're difficult to mount.06:02
wpwrakwolfspraul: the black and clear plastic that goes in front of the lcd will have to be constructed. first, i don't have it as a scannable part (all the glue gets in the way), and second, its main characteristic - being partially clear - would be lost.06:04
wpwrakwolfspraul: also the metal bits (top of the shell, speaker) may need the same process as lcd and such. only that they're more difficult. so i'm not sure if this will work. worst case, they would have to be replaced with constructed parts, too.06:06
wpwrakwolfspraul: once i have the whole collection of parts in a displayable way, i'll post thickness measurements. with them and the scans, anyone can try their luck at aligning faces and maybe compensating for scan problems or distortions of the part.06:07
wpwrakwolfspraul: finally, we'll have to find a way to get solids a cad system can use. right now, all i have is an output pov-ray likes. someone who understands something about how 3d solids are implemented in cad systems would be useful for taking care of this. i.e., the kind of "brute force" approach i used with pov-ray may not work so well with real cad systems.06:10
wpwrakwolfspraul: then, these solids with ragged surfaces would have to be translated into properly engineered parts ...06:11
wpwrakof course, one could also use pov-ray as a poor man's cad for such things. show one of the parts like i have them now, then make the constructed one (in pov-ray), and let pov-ray display the difference between the two. crude, but it may work.06:12
wpwrakeventually, we'll run into prototyping. right now, there are two active players: kristianpaul who has a 3d printer and me with my mill. the 3d printer is amazingly fast and it can do full 3d shapes relatively easily. not sure about overhangs. one its problem is print quality, both in terms of overall accuracy and in terms of surface finish.06:17
wpwrakmy mill can make very precise and smooth surfaces, but it's not as fast (even extremely slow for some things) and it's not so good for parts that have two faces, because i need to flip and part, which introduces significant variations along the z axis.06:18
wpwrakone way around this problem is to make molds instead of directly milling parts. in a mold, only one face matters. the problem then becomes what material to cast. i now can do, but lead isn't the best choice for everything ;-) i've started to investigate plastics and wax+plastic combinations, but it's still uncertain if anything useful will come out of this.06:21
kristianpaulwpwrak: i can get .3 mm per layer right now is higher that that i think .37506:46
kristianpaulwpwrak: i can try add support material by software wich means more plastic in the printin (easy to remove), right now overhangs that are more than 45 degrees are a bit challenging ;)06:48
qwebirc13861anybody worked upon serial port of nanonote ?06:48
kristianpaulqwebirc13861: yes06:49
kristianpaultuxbrain: i think too06:49
kristianpaulwhat you need?06:49
kristianpaulqwebirc13861: i did this http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/GPS06:49
kristianpaulis a first aprouch but works06:49
qwebirc13861I need to have serial port comm between nanonote and PC06:49
kristianpauls/did/assemble/make parts together06:50
kristianpaulqwebirc13861: why not serial over ethernet?06:50
kristianpaulseems simpler06:50
qwebirc13861means ?06:50
kristianpaulwell about the "real" serial port just get a usb2ttl and you're done06:50
wpwrakqwebirc13861: well, i did a luxury version ... http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/idbg-v2-install.jpg06:50
wpwrakqwebirc13861: but i somehow think that's not what you're looking for :)06:50
kristianpaulluxury ;)06:50
qwebirc13861from where I can haev usb2ttl ?06:51
kristianpaulwpwrak: ah but you are planning soemthing with a fdti chips same used in usb2ttl06:51
wpwrakkristianpaul: yes, the next version should be ftdi06:52
qwebirc13861in place of PC I have to connect microcontroller based system having serial port06:52
qwebirc13861nanonote will download the data from it06:52
wpwrakqwebirc13861: are you sure you need the level coversion then ?06:52
qwebirc13861so will serial over ethernet work ?06:52
qwebirc13861i am not clear with serial over ethernet ?06:53
wpwrakno, forget "serial over ethernet"06:53
qwebirc13861why ? is it now feasible or something else ?06:54
kristianpaulqwebirc13861: http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/ and read Serial06:54
wpwrakkristianpaul: doens't help without usb host on the ben06:54
kristianpaulqwebirc13861: no, just the always question "why you need a MCU there? "06:54
kristianpaulwpwrak: ahh i tought was just with usb client06:54
wpwrakkristianpaul: i think we wants the serial-usb only for development. but i could be wrong :)06:55
kristianpauli mean ben may behave as an usb cable using already ethernet client capabillties06:55
kristianpaulhmm i was thinking other thing06:55
kristianpaulbut it seems :)06:55
qwebirc13861now tell me about TTL level serial port06:56
qwebirc13861how can I go for it06:56
wpwrakcalling it "ethernet" is a bit misleading in this context06:56
wpwrakttl to the external mcu ? first, make sure that one does have the same levels. btw, "ttl" is normally considered to mean 5 V. the ben uses 3.3 V.06:57
wpwrakalmost all modern electronics of this kind use 3.3 V, of course. so you're likely to be compatible.06:57
kristianpaulsome tll support 3.3 byt joinin gor opening a jumper06:57
kristianpaulqwebirc13861: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Serial_console06:57
kristianpaulbuy solder and plug :)06:57
wpwrakif not, you may need some adaptation.06:57
kristianpaulmaking sure all is well connected with right voltatges06:58
wpwrakqwebirc13861: first of all, that external board, what is it ? is this something you made ?06:59
qwebirc13861the external board is around atmel avr having spi flash on it06:59
qwebirc13861AVR works on 5V06:59
qwebirc13861can I use MAX232 for TTL to RS232 conversion07:00
wpwrak(5V) ah. let's see if this is a problem ...07:00
wpwrakno no, don't go to +/- 12 V. 3.3V to 5V is easier than 5V to 12 V to 3.3 V07:00
kristianpaulbut AVR pins are 3.3 ompatible is some models07:00
kristianpaulyou nee cehck datasheet07:00
kristianpaulas tuxbrain tell us in the mail list (now in archive)07:01
wpwrakqwebirc13861: which AVR ?07:01
kristianpaulqwebirc13861: i must leave07:02
kristianpaultraveling to office :)07:02
kristianpaulsee ya in some hours07:02
kristianpaulwpwrak: hope my answers about the 3d printer and helpfull?... let me know07:03
qwebirc13861atmega AVR128 8ai07:04
wpwrakkristianpaul: yes, thanks. so you agree with my description of its limitations ? it's a bit better at overhangs than i expected, though.07:04
wpwrakwhee, a fairly exotic part07:10
kristianpaulwpwrak:  yeah there are limitations, but you can beat some of then ! ;)07:11
kristianpaulgotat run bye07:11
kristianpaulwolfspraul: chech mail and paypal !07:12
wpwrakyou'll need 1:2 voltage dividers. but nothing else.07:12
wolfspraulkristianpaul: later07:13
wolfspraul(see you later, not checking later... :-))07:13
wolfspraulI'm reading up on what wpwrak said above07:13
wolfspraulfirst I will try to locate some more of those individual parts07:13
wolfspraulthen if I understand wpwrak correctly, it may be possible to use kristianpaul's 3d printer to make some parts?07:14
wolfspraullet's chat more later...07:14
wpwrakyeah, a 1:1.5 to 1:2 resistive voltage divider for avr tx -> ben rx should do the trick07:15
wpwrakwolfspraul: (3d printer) coarse parts. kristianpaul posted some pictures a while ago. lemme find them ...07:15
wpwrak http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:IMG_2670.JPG07:18
wolfspraulwe should embed them in a nice wiki page with instructions07:19
wolfspraulI must have missed them, looking now...07:19
wpwrakso, good enough to get a feeling for the part, but not really prototype quality. not sure if this can be improved, e.g., by working the surface with a light solvent07:19
wpwrake.g., notice the right vertical edge of http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:IMG_2670.JPG07:21
wpwrakthat's the kind of accuracy issue this sort of printer has07:21
wolfspraulyeah but it's nice07:21
wolfspraulI don't think we have to copy whatever is currently the 'standard'07:22
wpwrakoh yes, it's pretty darn cool what they can do07:22
wpwrakthe problem is that you need ~0.5 mm structures and ~0.1 mm accuracy fairly quickly07:23
wolfspraulwe market it as organic/recycled computers :-)07:23
wpwrakeven for simple parts, engineered for easy making07:23
wpwrakheh ;)07:23
wpwrakwell, you could use wood ... :)07:23
wolfsprauloh I'll do that07:23
wolfspraulpicture with 2 apples, iPhone, our device07:24
wolfsprauliPhone together with waxed & shiny cheap apple07:24
wolfspraulour device with natural, worm & bird bitten organic Apple07:24
wpwrakmaybe put a few dead worms around the Apple apple :)07:24
wolfspraulyeah, exactly07:25
wpwrakwood could be fun. you can treat it with PUR and then it resists pretty much anything. not quite sure about swelling, though.07:26
wpwrakof course, one problem with wood is that it would need machining from at least two sides.07:27
wolfspraulmy main concern is cost / unit07:31
wolfspraulI don't want to make expensive toys07:31
wolfspraulunfortunately we are up against a big challenge on the cost side07:32
wpwraki don't think case making has to be expensive07:33
wpwrakinjection molding of small quantities (a few kunits) should be relatively inexpensive if you do everything up to making the mold07:33
wpwrakwhat's harder are the prototypes. they have to be reasonably accurate.07:34
wpwrakah, regarding kristianpaul's 3d prints: they have a lot of right angles. you can get away with this with a 3d printer, but a part made for molding would have to have round edges. so if you 3d-print such a design, the result may be better, too.07:37
wpwrak(with a mill, outer corners can be as pointy as you want but inner corners are round, too)07:38
wpwrakaah, finally it rains ! hay fever, be gone !07:38
rafawpwrak: ;-))07:42
rafalarsc: you there? did you modify that driver for the SD wifi in qi?07:54
rafalarsc: I am modifying it for 2.6.34.. a lot of changes to do ! :(07:55
rafalarsc: did you modify =did you port07:57
rafalarsc: in qi = I found it at : http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_Wi-Fi07:58
rafabut that one was for 2.6.2407:58
larscrafa: i think it worked out of the box on 2.6.3208:06
rafalarsc: well.. that tar.gz has a patch for the kernel and the sources to build the module08:07
rafathe patch is okey, but the sources of the driver to build the module needs a lot of changes for 2.6.34 ..08:07
rafalarsc: but well, if you did not do many changes then I will continue with the work. I was thinking that if you needed to do a lot of changes then maybe you alredy did the ones I need to do :)08:08
larscrafa: have your tried http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-xburst/source/tree/tracking_backfire/package/ks7010/src08:10
rafalarsc: no, I do not know how to find stuff, yet, inside of that whole xburst tree :(08:14
rafalarsc: let me check, thanks to point08:14
rafalarsc: I am checking.. that driver has the same modifications I did :P08:33
rafalarsc: and it does not work "out of the box".. or maybe for you, to modify around 300 lines means "works out of the box" ;-) for me no, I need to check every api which changed and to modify08:34
kristianpaulwpwrak: (acid??) well i bought a hot automated platform http://store.makerbot.com/automated-build-platform.html is not the wow thing but at least the hot will allowme to avoid raft in printings09:49
kristianpaulwolfspraul: about printings, yes is not a wiki page yet, i think i can create one to night09:50
kristianpaulis just a lazy first print i i think i can get better resolution in Z axis just need do more tests09:50
kristianpaulwpwrak: had you tried make round angles in small parts in Heekscad?09:52
kristianpaulwpwrak: my printer is a makerbot cupcake cnc if i dint tell you before btw09:52
kristianpaulwpwrak: so talking about the case how you said it still fat as in the last git commint, but why?09:53
kristianpaulwhat i need i prove? :)09:54
wpwrak(coveyor) wow, cool :)10:34
wpwrakkristianpaul: (rounding) that would be fillet and chamfer. the rightmost items in heekscad's top menu bar10:42
wpwrakkristianpaul: and no, i haven't used them yet10:42
kristianpaulwpwrak: i'll try10:43
kristianpaulwpwrak: what about the fatness?10:43
wpwrakkristianpaul: rounding the edges will probably make them print in a nicer way10:43
kristianpaulalso help in overhang10:44
wpwrak(fat) thin is sexy ;-)10:44
wpwrak(overhang) yup, that too10:44
kristianpaulwpwrak: how thin is sexy?10:44
wpwrakand such a design is compatible with a lot more production technologies10:44
wpwrak0.5 mm of air below the board. 1 mm above.10:45
kristianpaulshow me more10:45
kristianpaulshow me a pic or something similar you have in mind10:45
kristianpaulah 0.5 thats challeing10:45
wpwraki don't have a picture :) just thinner10:46
wpwrakwhy is 0.5 mm a problem ?10:46
kristianpaulis not10:46
wpwrakok :)10:46
wpwrak(acid) you mean for smoothing ? naw, the abs may resist that. but some pastic solvents (paint thinner or such) may help to soften the abs a little. needs experimenting, though.10:47
kristianpaulyeah thinner will10:47
kristianpaullet me find a cheap way of send stuff to argetnina too10:48
kristianpaul30usd is not aceptable !!10:48
wpwrak"ABS polymers are resistant to aqueous acids, alkalis, concentrated hydrochloric and phosphoric acids, alcohols and animal, vegetable and mineral oils, "10:48
wpwrak[...] "They are soluble in esters, ketones and ethylene dichloride."10:49
wpwrak"It is degraded (dissolved) when exposed to acetone."  that one's easy to get :)10:49
kristianpauli think i have some acetone10:49
kristianpaulit had to used before to clean the machine nozzle before10:50
kristianpaulafter i discover firing it is more fun and efective :D10:50
kristianpaulokay i-ll remove other 3mm to the design10:51
kristianpaulis that okay for you?10:51
wpwrakoh. not problems with carbonized residues ?10:51
kristianpaulwell not that i noticed10:51
kristianpaulwas a small cilinder10:51
wpwrak3 mm less sounds great :) how tall is it then in total ? (top and bottom part)10:52
kristianpaulright now is 6mm10:52
kristianpaulbut i dont have heeks here to cofirm10:52
kristianpaulyou said the wpan is 3mm in height?10:53
wpwrakhmm, 6mm - 3 mm would be 3 mm. that sounds too thin. youi have bottom thickness, top thichness, 0.5 mm air at bottom, ~1 mm air above pcb at top, 0.8 mm of pcb.10:53
wpwraka bit less than 3 mm, yes. around 2.3-2.5 mm.10:54
kristianpaulsee !10:54
kristianpauli can make tall the part it is and ther other stuff thin as much i can10:55
kristianpaulbut i will not look well i think10:55
wpwraki have one that measures 2.15 mm. so around 2.3-2.5 mm would provide for some tolerances10:56
kristianpaulso 4.5mm (top-botton) is thin and sexy?10:57
kristianpaulplus i-ll try round edges10:57
kristianpaulhope that dont increase the fatness10:58
wpwrak4.5 mm total sounds good10:58
wpwrakthat way, it stays a little below the edge of the ben11:00
kristianpaulhehe we can swap the board and solve that problem :p11:03
wpwrakhmm, that would actually be possible :) more vias, though11:13
wpwrakof cours, then the ben would probably stand on the box :)11:32
rozzinHm. Is there a serial number somewhere on Ben NanoNote?19:45
rozzinWell, it causes difficulties in situations where organisations want to maintain a registry of devices.19:57
rozzinUnless there's some other unique ID that can be substituted.19:58
rozzinLike, I don't think that I could buy one for business use at any company where I've worked.19:58
rozzinIf it's an untrackable asset.19:59
larscput a sticker on it20:00
rozzinThat's not how the corporate policies have worked.20:01
rozzinAs far as I know, anyway20:01
mthdepends on the company: where I used to work, they put their own stickers with serial number on everything, regardless of the manufacturer serial numbers20:05
mthprobably because their own stickers could be scanned by barcode20:05
mth(on everything of value: a monitor would have a sticker but a mouse would not)20:06
rozzinActually, I may be wrong:20:06
rozzinI think the mice that I had my current employer get me lacked serial numbers.20:07
rozzinThe electronic computer-accessory kind of mice, not the biological kind, of course....20:09
rozzinThough, I presume not-having-serial-numbers isn't an issue in places that use the animals.20:10
mthwell, if you're testing medicine on mice then I think it would be a very good idea to give them serial numbers, or you might draw the wrong conclusions20:11
rozzinWell, yeah--I presume they'd get asset-numbers or something.20:11
rozzinBut they wouldn't come with manufacturer serial numbers :)20:11
wpwrakrozzin: no DNA ? :)20:17
rafalarsc: I managed to build the wifi driver for 2.6.34 kernel.. but no luck yet. when I insmod it It complains that "ks79xx_sdio: Unknown symbol wireless_send_event"20:19
rafalarsc: I traced a bit.. wireless_send_event is defined in net/wireless/wext-core.c20:20
rafaand it EXPORT_SYMBOL that20:20
rafathe 2.6.34 kernel is set to build the kernel wireless code and I also20:20
rafaread wireless_send_event in System.map after kernel built..20:21
rafabut no idea yet how to continue.. thinking and checking google :)20:21
wpwrakrafa: is it in /proc/kallsyms ?20:22
rafawpwrak: let me check..20:24
wpwrakrafa: you can just  grep wireless /proc/kallsyms20:24
rafawpwrak: ahh. cool.. nop :(20:25
rafait is not there20:25
wpwrakrafa: there usually aren't a lot of things (~20)20:25
rafawpwrak: no idea how to add that now :)20:27
rafaI would guess some option in .config.. I have checked with menuconfig and I have all it would need20:27
wpwrakrafa: is anything else wireless there ?20:27
wpwrakrafa: erm, basics first: are you sure you're running the kernel you built (the one that has wireless in System.map) ?20:28
wpwrakrafa: wouldn't be the first time this sort of mishap happens ;-) (you can check .version)20:29
rafawell, yes.. if bootloader works how it says that it works :)20:29
rafaI can rm all the uImage under /boot/ and just put my last kernel built.. which is now as /boot/uImage20:30
mthcomparing .version to the output of uname -v might be easier20:30
wpwraki was more thinking of copying the wrong kernel or not copying it (due to a typo or such), not necessarily a boot loader bug20:30
rafawpwrak: ah.. no.. wait.. funny.. I have the kernel in sd and driver.ko in nand.. soooooooo20:31
rafaI am running the nand kernel. HA!20:31
rafathanks.. let me reboot this thing20:32
rozzinwolfspraul: I do actually have one complaint about Ben NanoNote.21:21
wolfspraul(btw, for the record, that Italian guy who had a dark LCM yesterday fully unbricked his NanoNote now, he sent me a mail...)21:23
wolfspraulI'm wondering what happened to tugasoft21:23
wpwrakwolfspraul: what was the problem with the LCM ?21:23
rozzinThe accessibility of the colour-coding on the keys is poor.21:23
wolfspraulagreed. red in particular.21:24
wolfsprauleven more so when it's dark.21:24
wolfspraulis that what you mean?21:24
rozzinwolfspraul: Are you colourblind, too? :)21:24
rozzinMy recommendation:21:24
wpwrakrozzin: i'd say the red/blue concept is even more fundamentally flawed. e.g., you only need one extra set, not two.21:24
wolfspraulwpwrak: don't know, he just sent me a one-line email saying everything works now.21:24
wpwrakwolfspraul: let's hope it stays that way then :)21:25
wolfspraulrozzin: ah, color blind. no that's a new point.21:25
rozzinThere's a lot of really good `making colour-coding work for everybody' information in that essay.21:26
wpwrakwolfspraul: red/blue .. in fact, in the dark they're both invisible. and if there's little light, we all are colorblind :)21:26
rozzinI have protanomalia (`weak red'), which makes the standard red primary dark and the green primary bright,21:28
rozzinso the red symbols are fairly hard to see even in good light and the cyan(?) ones are very visible but not easy to distinguish from white.21:28
wolfspraulrozzin: thanks a lot for the link. I added a new section here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ya_NanoNote_Specs#Mechanical_Annoyances_in_the_Ben21:29
wolfspraulneed to fill in some more things we learnt about mechanical issues, but your link is very good, thanks!21:29
rozzinKeen :)21:29
rozzinwolfspraul: Oh, BTW--I'm actually *not* the person who added the "abillity to hardware disable microphone" item to the `Ungrouped' list :)21:32
rozzinI'm pretty sure there is actually a (niche) market for that.21:33
wpwrakrozzin: it's fairly easy to unsolder and then remove it. i don't think you even need to plug the hole, it's so small21:35
rozzinwpwrak: Indeed. I removed mine, last night;21:36
rozzinthough, I just cut the wires rather than unsoldering.21:36
rozzinPartly because... I couldn't find my soldering iron.21:37
rozzinI don't expect to ever need the microphone.21:37
rozzinAnd, if I somehow *do* need it..., heck--Ben's cheap enough :)21:38
kristianpaulwpwrak: you said .5 mm thin wall, isnt?22:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added expose events for auxiliary projections. http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/abb945e22:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Move draw_circle from util.c to gui_util.c http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/fd7b72222:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Changed the style of projection displays from lines to filled surfaces, to http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/46704e622:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Scale z axis in projection displays to obtain 1:1 aspect ratio. http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/761002e22:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added a thin black border above and below the projections. http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/f2963b922:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Increased some borders/gaps for better visual appearance. http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/5fd9b3322:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: The bottom face can now be shifted and rotated as well. http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/733332d22:17
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: solidify/template.pov: corrected aspect ratio (1.42 instead of 1.33) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/5595c7422:17
wpwrakkristianpaul: i was assuming 1 mm. but if you can do 0.5 mm, even better :)22:17
kristianpaulno no ;)22:17
kristianpaulnot yet22:17
wpwrakkristianpaul: the 0.5 mm was the embedded air below the pcb22:17
kristianpauli wonder if i can prin .5 thi walls22:18
rafawpwrak: Jlime$ insmod ks79xx_sdio.ko22:20
rafawpwrak: dmesg...22:20
rafaks7010_sdio : Sep 28 2010 20:54:4322:20
rafaje.. no errors now :)22:20
wpwrakrafa: congratulations ! :)22:21
rafabtw, I lost my micro sd -> sd adapter :(22:21
kristianpaulmicrosd wifi?22:21
rafakristianpaul: well.. just the driver.. i do not have such hardware :P22:21
rafakristianpaul: but some guy asked for help with jlime kernel and his new micro sd wifi22:21
rafaarghfsh.. I have a mess here.. I broke the 2gb micro sd before the trip.. and now I have not found that adatper..grrr22:22
kristianpaulohh i discovered "snap to grid" in heekscad22:37
kristianpaulok gri size 0.122:39
kristianpaulnow i can move 0.5 mm!22:39
kristianpaulwitht the mouse22:39
rozzinI'd sort-of like to find a µSD bluetooth adaptor.22:50
rozzinThat seems like it could be promising.22:50
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: use the original bz2 file as the orig.tar.bz2, do not repackage it, http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/afa0c1b22:54
qi-bot[commit] kristianpaul: New case design blue collored ~4 mm high http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/be87d6423:05
rozzinOy--time for bed.23:26
rozzinUploaded the first few step-by-step disassembly photographs; will get to the rest tomorrow, hopefully.23:27
--- Wed Sep 29 201000:00

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