#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2010-09-20

--- Mon Sep 20 201000:00
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Put scans on index page in top-down order and added placeholders for still http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/3b14f6700:31
wpwrakkristianpaul: looks like a start :) how thick are your walls ? the whole case seems very tall.00:38
DocScrutinizerserver move accomplished?06:50
kristianpaulwpwrak: wall thickness is 1mm i hope yeah is kind of tall but is just 13mm :)07:30
kristianpaulmay be i can draw a side of the nanonote and you'll see how it looks next to him07:30
wpwrak13 mm seems HUGE. with 4 mm walls, you shouldn't need more than about 4.5 mm: 1 mm top wall, 1.2 mm clearance above PCB, 0.8 mm PCB, 0.5 clearance below PCB, 1 mm bottom wall. maybe even less clearance.07:38
kristianpaulahh was my fault i tought that 1 in your case.fig was 1cm ! (what was i thinking??)07:39
kristianpauli'll fix to night and make test print :)07:39
wpwrakalso, i think that huge it would be even above the keyboard level.07:39
kristianpaulyes :)07:40
wpwrakoh :) naw, it's the micro-SD card :)07:40
kristianpaulhow is that? wpan pan share ports with a sd card also?07:41
wpwrakthe one that goes into the display won't need any extra case :) but that one's for the future. right now, everything interesting can be already tested with the one that goes into uSD, plus it doesn't need any freakish assembly :)07:41
kristianpaulsure :)07:41
wpwrakthe atusd variant connects via the uSD signals. it goes directly into the uSD slot: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/atusd/atusd-20100908-inserted.jpg07:43
wpwrakyou can't share the port with a card, though. there can be only one ;-)07:44
kristianpaulsure sure i misunderstand ( naw, it's the micro-SD card :))07:45
wpwrakqi-bot has an identity crisis08:13
kristianpaulqi-bot6: ping09:44
rafatuxbrain_away: hola12:04
rafaestas ?12:05
rafatuxbrain_away: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/games/sources/12:05
rafatuxbrain_away: queda por subir los siguientes free software games: tecnoballz, powermanga y opentyrian12:06
kristianpaulwhat's wrong with qi-bot?12:33
wpwrakmy guess would be that it's not registering with nickserv, so everytime it tries to change its nick, it gets changed back12:35
wolfspra1lwpwrak: yes correct12:37
wolfspra1lI'm on it, need to improve the tcl scripts a bit12:37
wpwrakbtw, how did the 1000 units run go ? everything smooth ?12:38
wolfspra1lI have a question about the usd breakout board12:38
wolfspra1lsure, all fine with the run12:38
wolfspra1lI'll send a mail once I have more data12:39
wolfspra1lfor the pulyfuse, you said we should pick a current rating after we know how much we can draw12:39
wolfspra1lso how much is that?12:39
wpwrak(run) great ! in a previous life, i wouldn't have dared to use the word "sure" in the same sentence as a successful run :)12:39
wolfspra1lyour url pointed to a 200mA fuse12:39
wolfspra1lcan we make an educated guess what would be a meaningful value in our case?12:39
wolfspra1land also not limit the breakout board maybe for other devices unnecessarily12:40
wpwrakthe limit is a good question :) it would be the maximum current the power supply can deliver, minus the typical peak consumption of the regular ben12:40
wolfspra1lwould a capacitor between VDD and GND make any sense?///12:40
wpwraki was hoping carlos and/or adam would have a good estimate of the current situation.12:41
wolfspra1lah good idea I can ask Adam, although he will probably refuse to give me a number until he did all calculations :-) he knows I will just go ahead 'produce something'...12:41
wpwraki woldn't add any extra capacitors without need, considering that what's already there is a bit troublesome12:41
wpwraki don't know to what extent the ben's circuit was engineered by sharism and to what extent it was just copied from the original design. so this can be anywhere between adam just polling the numbers out from design notes to him actually having to do the whole set of calculations and measurements.12:43
wpwrakwell, or someone else :)12:43
wolfspra1lmaybe no fuse then for now12:44
wolfspra1lI will ask Adam in parallel12:44
wolfspra1lbut adding a nice polyfuse and not really knowing which current rating it should have really looks stupid.12:44
wpwrakthe latter is quite a bit of work, if you remember the endless stories about characterizing the current consumption of the gta02. that's why i was hoping some design data was already around.12:44
wolfspra1lguessing the value also doesn't make sense, either too low or too high would devalue the fuse quite a bit12:45
wpwraki think the power supply should survive shorting just fine. the problem is that it will take the system down.12:45
wpwrakthere could be secondary effects when overloading SD power, e.g., exceeding USB current, though.12:46
wpwraksome surge protection may be nice to have, too. after all, these signals so get exposed this way, and they run straight to the CPU.12:47
wpwrakof course, surge protection ought to be inside the Ben, not on the peripheral. but it would still be better than nothing.12:47
wolfspra1lif I have no number for the current rating, I can't add a fuse12:49
wolfspra1lbut you are right, I will ask Adam12:49
wpwrakyup, that's the best way to start. if he doesn't know, we can still do it the hard way.12:50
Action: kristianpaul hmm i need a 50mA fuse13:01
wolfspra1lkristianpaul: on the breakout cable?13:02
kristianpaulwolfspra1l: not for the EVB just for initial tests13:04
wolfspra1lI hope qi-bot0 is a safe temporary name for the night :-) I'll go about fixing the actual script tomorrow...13:27
bartbeskristianpaul: you were the gforth expert, right?13:38
bartbes(of course I may be entirely wrong, but you should at least have mentioned it once :P)13:38
kristianpaulbartbes: no13:40
bartbeshehe, see?13:40
kristianpaulactually i was asking about gforth but no more the other day13:40
kristianpaulyes i mentioned it13:40
kristianpaullooks interesting13:40
bartbeswell, it is not something worrying anyway13:41
bartbesI just figured it was a fun fact13:41
bartbesapparently gforth thinks it's 16th of january 197013:41
kristianpaulinteresting now?13:41
bartbesI need to find me something to program in forth that is more useful that rot13 :P13:43
kristianpaulif foth support SDL or someway of usehte the display will be cool i think13:44
wpwrakif the forth fanatics are progressing like this, wolfgang can make the ya with 32 kB of RAM ;-)13:54
kristianpaulmy milkymist avnet board is 2 kB13:58
wpwrakalright. that's the kind of platform where forth would even make sense nowadays :)13:59
kristianpaulwpwrak: ahh the case need to be C like due the wall could not be so thin to fit the small space between the PCB and the ben14:00
kristianpaulC not the language14:00
wpwrakof course, at the same time, we have opkg that needs swap space before it will even run. that seems to be a rather worthwhile target for a bit of optimization ;-)14:00
wpwrak(c-shape) yup :) don't design what you can't build ;-))14:01
kristianpaulwe also have the linux monolitic kernel, but wait there is irisi, why not look at it !14:01
kristianpaulor minix ;)14:03
kristianpaulat the end the nanontoe should behave like other home appliance so..14:03
kristianpaulbartbes: how good is going forth self-compilation in the nanonote?14:09
bartbeslol, I was asking what you meant14:20
kristianpaulis in wikipedia article about forth14:23
rafawpwrak: I will kill opkg14:24
wpwrakrafa: that's a worthy challenge ! :) dragons are so old-fashioned. you, valiant knight, are to slay an opkg :)14:27
wpwrakkristianpaul: locking the case/board in place will also be a bit tricky. a very simple case would just be some sort of sleeve. but it would either hold the board by friction or the board would have to be glued inside14:36
kristianpaulwpwrak: locking could be achieved by holding on of the edges of the PCB i think14:38
wpwrakkristianpaul: so you're saying a single part, with friction lock ?14:56
wpwrakkristianpaul: or two parts ?14:56
kristianpaulwpwrak: two parts14:56
kristianpaulyeah friction lock is the right word14:57
wpwrakmuch easier :)14:57
rafawpwrak: I need to know what opkg does :)15:15
rafayou need to know well your enemy first :D15:16
wpwrakn = count_packages(); for (i = 0; i != 1 << n; i++) malloc(random());   ?15:16
rafamalloc(random()) ; exit(1);15:16
rafawpwrak: another possibility could be void main(void) { printf("error"); exit(random()); }15:19
kristianpaulrafa: you are evil ! :)15:24
wpwrakrafa: perhaps you meant   return ((int (*)(void))({ long foo = random(); &foo; }))();   ?15:25
rafakristianpaul: and you tell me that I am evil?? ! :)15:26
rafawpwrak: ;-))15:26
Action: kristianpaul runs away15:27
kristianpaulhehe look this http://boredzo.org/helloworld/15:38
wpwrakkristianpaul: sigh. when will people learn proper use of operator precedence and omit redundant parentheses ... (zoo == 0) ? foo : bar; /* blargh */15:43
bartbesso gtk+ should work without problems?17:07
rafabartbes: on fb?17:08
Action: bartbes hides from the cops17:09
bartbesrafa: why?17:09
rafammh ยก?17:09
rafaI just tried to understand where gtk+ should work without problems17:10
rafasurely you are talking about openwrt17:10
bartbesoh on framebuffer17:11
rafabut I wanted to be sure17:11
bartbesyeah, I meant on the nn17:12
bartbesdefault openwrt17:12
rafawhat did you understand?17:12
bartbesso, it should just work, right?17:13
rafano idea.. I read that qi had a gtk+ lib which works on fb, so maybe yes.17:14
bartbesI thought stardict was just gtk+17:14
bartbesbut yeah, I wanted to know sure before actually trying17:14
bartbesit would be a waste of effort otherwise17:14
rafaI also guess that nn does not like gtk2 much..17:15
rafastardict : maybe it is sdl?17:15
rafano idea17:15
wpwrakrafa: why should it not like gtk2 ?17:37
rafawpwrak: i have tested only.. and it is so slow.. IIRC, gtk2 libs do a lot of floating point calculations.. but I could be wrong17:40
wpwrakoh, fp would be bad17:40
rafahehehe.. I was talking for a while with a supertux developer.. and I modified a bit the game :)19:57
rafanow.. enjoying it on nn ;)19:58
kristianpaulrafa: yes?20:28
kristianpaulrafa: i tried some day in jlime but was so slowww20:28
rafakristianpaul: I did a new build.. no the OE package20:42
rafakristianpaul: the speed is great20:42
rafawith sound as well20:42
kristianpaulgood :)20:43
kristianpaulwhat is wrong with OE packages?20:43
rafasupertux is not a game for 320x24020:43
rafathe OE package is okey20:43
rafaand it builds the proper current supertux20:44
kristianpauli see20:44
rafathat is why I was talking with a supertux developer20:44
rafaso he guided me to use other sources20:44
rafaand to modify a bit those20:44
kristianpaulbtw , have you tried frozzen bubble in jlime?20:45
kristianpauli not sure if is on the repo20:45
rafano yet..20:45
rafajust the games I gave tuxbrain20:45
rafacan you play frozzen bubble using 320x240? (on pc)20:46
kristianpauli dont have 320x240 on my PC20:46
kristianpaulbut is giess if i have will be too small indeed20:46
kristianpauli just plaied  once ina  nokia/s60 phone was great :)20:47
kristianpaul240 x 320 pixels, 2.2 inches20:49
kristianpaulnokia 5700 :)20:49
kristianpaulwich is not same as  320x240 ;)20:49
kristianpaulwhat a problem20:49
rafaI mean.. if you can run the game using some command line argument or config to test using 320x24020:51
rafathat is the best before to try a game on nn20:52
kristianpauli see20:52
rafafirst to try to run the game on pc using a 320x240 window20:52
rafaif the game does not have some argument to set that size20:52
rafathen that is not a good idea to try on nn..20:52
kristianpauloh it uses SDL :)20:56
kristianpaulbut i dont see where set screen resolution afaik :/20:58
kristianpaulthe s60 version does but guess is too s60 specific..20:59
qwebirc54914has anyone figured out how to get a working gui on debian with the nanonote yet?21:29
qwebirc6704I as well as someone else wanted to know if anyone can run the gui with the debian on the nanonote23:28
--- Tue Sep 21 201000:00

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