#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2010-08-20

nebajothoh dear00:00
nebajoththis is fun00:00
nebajothI'm running
nebajothhas anybody compiled a working kernel for the nanonote that uses a more recent kernel?00:02
nebajothI remember seeing the mailing list discussions regarding official inclusion00:03
nebajothin the mainline, that is00:03
nebajothah yes, as of 2.6.3600:06
wolfspraulyes definitely there are more recent kernels, 34/35. but I don't know exactly where the patches are or how to build them. I'd say you need to look in openwrt upstream.00:09
wolfsprauleverything based on the openwrt backfire release will stay with 3200:09
nebajoththat's fine00:10
nebajothI'm just going to work out how to build it then00:10
wolfspraul36 should have a lot of Ben NanoNote stuff mainline, but not everything00:11
wolfspraulmaybe one or two drivers are still missing, mmc if I recall00:11
nebajothWRONG CMD LINE00:11
nebajothjust looking at the patch00:33
nebajoththe one linus merged00:33
nebajothlooks like mmc is there00:33
nebajothI think00:33
nebajothbut I don't see anything for audio00:33
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: A new try at config.h management: moved it to ../common, along with io.h http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/57f342700:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Generate port, bit, and output mode definitions from io.h http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f8cd15e00:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Turn the LED on while in the boot loader. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/3c87d9f00:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Implemented AT86RF230 reset and access modes. (Completely untested.) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/544795100:51
qwebirc47408i have purchased new nanonote03:44
qwebirc47408want oto put it into usb-bbot mode03:45
qwebirc47408but when I shorten the two pins then nanonote doesnt bootup03:45
qwebirc47408plz help03:45
kyakjust hold the "U" button during power on03:47
kyakno need to shorten if you have a working bootloader03:47
qwebirc47408if I am holding U button the it is not booting up03:57
wolfspraulqwebirc47408: you don't need to constantly hold it, just before and while you are pressing the POWER-ON button03:58
wolfspraulpress the power-on (together with 'u') for a good 2-3 seconds03:58
wolfspraulthen run 'lsusb' on your Linux host machine03:58
wolfspraulyou should see an ID 0x601a:471a:ns03:59
wolfspraulsorry, - you should see an ID 0x601a:474003:59
tuxbrain2qwebirc47408: in USB boot mode you will notice no reaction from nanonote , screen black , you hve to check if is in usb boot by lsusb in host computer and see a new device 0x601a:474003:59
wolfsprauldo you see that ID?03:59
qwebirc47408let me check04:01
qwebirc47408yes i m getting04:04
qwebirc47408how can I develop any C application for it and run over nanonote04:05
tuxbrain2qwebirc47408: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Compiling_for_the_NanoNote04:09
wolfspraulqwebirc47408: that's a great start! :-)04:11
wolfspraulif you see that ID, it means your NanoNote is alive, the CPU is running, and waiting for instructions04:11
wolfspraulit is not supposed to boot in that mode04:12
qwebirc47408what to do next04:12
wolfspraulnow you can run reflash_ben.sh, although I hate that script :-)04:12
qwebirc47408I want to reflash the  nanonote04:12
qwebirc47408how shall I run usbboot application04:12
wolfspraulyou have usbboot installed already?04:12
wolfspraulthen just run reflash_ben.sh04:12
qwebirc47408how to check it04:12
qwebirc47408i have installed openwrt-xburst04:13
wolfspraulyou need to install the xburst-tools package04:13
wolfspraulthat's the sources, that comes later04:13
qwebirc47408yes I have04:14
wolfsprauldo you have reflash_ben.sh ? download and run04:15
wolfspraulI believe we do have some instructions in the wiki for that04:15
wolfspraulif you see the 601a:4740 ID all is fine. Now run reflash_ben.sh04:15
qwebirc47408I have downloaded reflash_ben and running it04:15
qwebirc47408what all will happen with this04:16
wolfspraulit will download the 0613 image and reflash the ben04:20
kyakweren't all these questions from beginner's guide?...04:22
bartbesbtw, wasn't there a photo viewer?05:27
wolfspraulbartbes: imgv05:29
bartbesis it in the default image?05:30
bartbesyes, it is05:30
wolfspraulhe, just trying05:30
bartbesah well, my jpeg is too big05:31
bartbes(for the memory)05:31
wolfspraulwe will cleanup the openwrt default app list and testing plan 'really soon', then a lot more should be included and stay included05:31
bartbesinterestingly enough I have yet to run out of memory while running a game engine, while I run out wanting to view a simple photo05:32
wolfspraulI have imgv but if I run it without parameters it just hangs05:32
wolfspraulscaling pictures can be very memory consuming, unless the scaling algorithm is specifically written to reduce memory footprint05:32
wolfspraulimgv --help or --version should at least say something, oh well...05:33
bartbesanyway, it was just a test to see if my camera supported SDHC05:33
bartbeswell, 'my' imgv doesn't hang when I run it (even without parameters)05:34
bartbesand about why --help and --version don't help, they just don't exist ;)05:34
bartbesI doubt it does any kind of arguments05:35
kyakcp: cannot stat `./files/qmake.conf': No such file or directory05:42
kyakthis is from recent qt05:42
kyakactually, i'm tired of things being broken every now and then upstream05:43
kyaki should better neve make package/symlinks05:43
kyakdo they even test before they commit?05:43
bartbeskyak: testing is overrated :P05:47
wolfspraulmirko: how is imgv supposed to work? in the 08-15 testing image, I try 'imgv some_image.jpg' and it just hangs.07:49
wolfspraulctrl-c will exit07:49
qwebirc26781reflashing is taking long time . is it ok ?07:52
wolfspraulhow long?07:52
wolfspraul20-30 minutes should be ok.07:53
qwebirc26781it is already 1 hr gone but stuked at fetching rootfs07:55
wolfspraulthat's not right07:57
wolfsprauloh well07:57
wolfspraulwait, maybe it is downloading? what is your internet speed?07:57
wolfspraulcould take an hour maybe. not sure. also I don't know how to check the download progress with the script.08:08
qwebirc26781how can i develop simple C application for it08:13
qwebirc26781and test it08:13
rafawpwrak: hey, after a while, yesterday, the bechnmark gives better values, no a lot more though.. : 65MB/s08:27
bartbesyeah, most tests you need to avarage as well08:32
wolfspraulzedstar: sorry I haven't gotten to replying to your mail yet. definitely will!10:18
bartbesin about 3 years10:18
bartbesor later10:18
wolfspraulI spend 50% of my time adding items to my todo list nowadays. Something is wrong...10:19
lars_you should add 'Stop adding items to my todo list' to your todo list ;)10:30
bartbesor if you want to cross something off10:32
bartbes'Add something to my todo list'10:32
wiwituhey guys11:13
wiwituquick question: whats the name for a powersupply with 16 pins, I cannot find one on the internet11:14
lekernelwtf? there are billions of power supplies with 16 pins11:23
lekernelif you're talking about PC power supplies this is the wrong channel11:23
viriche left, maybe realising that11:27
bartbeshe ran out of power ;)11:27
wpwrakhmm, if anyone is running a recent kernel under openwrt, it would be interesting to try the memset benchmark there, too. to exclude kernel differences as possible causes.12:10
wpwrakthe code is here: http://pastebin.ca/191977712:10
wpwraklekernel: nice analysis, thanks ! so my estimates are basically sane.12:11
wpwrak(running the benchmark) just compile, maybe with -O9 to make sure the compiler doesn't do anything funny, run top to make sure that there's nothing that burns cpu, then run the benchmark a few times with time ./a.out12:16
wpwrakit just takes a few seconds12:16
lekerneltry enabling RT priority too (ie context switches disabled)12:19
lekerneland write your own memset, in assembler if needed12:20
wpwraklekernel: (rt) naw, i'd rather not do that. might upset the timekeeping.12:20
lekernelthen use hwclock calls?12:21
wpwrak(own memset) i hope to get others interested in doing that, should it be necessary :)12:21
wpwrak(hwclock) uh, too complex for this little benchmark12:22
wpwrakit's not as if it would suffer high variability anyway12:22
lekernelapparently it does :)12:24
wpwrakright now, i'm not so much after maximizing memset, but after confirming that openwrt-based memset is slower than jlime-based12:24
wpwrakon the same system ? just a few percent12:25
wpwrak@#%. why does that silly device not respond to my control messages. almost the same code worked a gazillion times before.12:32
Action: wpwrak hates chasing trivial bugs12:33
wpwrakoh, lovely. looks like yet another sdcc compiler bug :-(12:41
viricwhat do you need to benchmark?12:42
viricI'm not running openwrt, but I run a iirc12:42
wpwrakviric: is your system uClibc-based ?12:43
viricwpwrak: no12:43
viricI can build that program for uclibc maybe.12:44
viric(not with glibc)12:44
wpwrakwell, could be useful to have another data point anyway. what system is it ? debian ?12:44
viricwpwrak: It's nixpkgs based12:44
viricwpwrak: (glibc 2.11.2, gcc 4.5.1, kernel
wpwrakoh, very exotic ;-) another data point would definitely be fun then :)12:45
viricis that going to give evident results? or I have to measure in any special way?12:45
wpwrakviric: naw, just check with top nothing else burns a lot of cpu time. then run the benchmark a few times with  time ./a.out12:47
viricwpwrak: a dynamic ELF?12:48
wpwrakdoesn't matter12:49
wpwrakjust use -O9 to make sure gcc tries to be efficient12:50
wpwrakgcc -O912:50
viricok ok12:50
viricI thought you had mistyped -O0 :)12:50
lekernel-O9 is like -O3 iirc12:50
lekerneljust like any -Ox with x > 312:51
wpwraklekernel: yup. it's idiomatic use for "make it as fast as you can" :-)12:51
viricaround 4.44s on avg for real/user time12:53
viricwpwrak: is that good?12:53
wpwrakviric: interesting. that's about 57 MB/s, much faster than openwrt but a bit slower than jlime12:54
wpwrakmaybe rafa is just overclocking his ben ;)12:54
mththe boot loader does the SDRAM initialization, so it can be relevant for memory bandwidth12:55
mthalthough I think all distros use the same boot loader, right?12:55
viricwpwrak: is that jlime uclibc based?12:55
wpwrakmth: oh. the kernel doesn't reset those things ? darn12:56
viricI'll tell you what bootloader I use...12:56
mthno, the current kernel does not touch them12:56
nebajothjlime is faster than openwrt?12:56
wpwrakmth: sigh. one more variable in the equation :-(12:57
mththe old gmenu2x version does change the PLL frequency, which also determines the MCLK value12:57
viricI'm using uboot 2010.06 with the patches from openwrt-xburst tree 3244d5ef9f93802f9b9b6f4405636424abf6fa8312:57
wpwrak(gemnu2x) wow. boldly stumbling where even the kernel doesn't dare to go12:57
mththe new gmenu2x uses cpufreq in sysfs to control the clocks, but there is no cpufreq support in the NanoNote kernel yet12:57
mthbut the old gmenu2x would reprogram the hardware via /dev/mem12:58
wpwraknebajoth: at least for memset, it seems to be12:58
wpwrakmth: are you by any chance running an up to date openwrt at the moment ?12:59
mthno, I don't even have a NanoNote, only a Dingoo13:00
wpwrakah, pity13:00
mthI'd like to see openwrt run on the Dingoo, but we didn't get very far yet13:01
mthI did port lars_'s kernel though13:01
nebajothwhat is lars_'s kernel?13:03
mththe one in the qi-kernel repository13:03
zearmth, rafa's getting my old dingoo soon, so we can hope for jlime port to the dingoo ;)13:03
mthnice :)13:04
mthrafa: please use the OpenDingux kernel then, it's more up-to-date than booboo's and it's still being maintained13:05
mthif you encounter any problems, please ask me13:05
viricas in 'what mips processor' the nanonote has... it's mips1?13:05
mthalso, it is much more like the NanoNote's kernel13:05
viric(from the options mips2, mips3, ...)?13:05
mthmips32 I think13:06
mthor maybe mips32r2?13:06
virichow to know?13:07
viricI'll go for mips32r213:10
viricand see13:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added library for items commonly shared among tools. http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/750113713:26
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: version.h is no longer generated and it thus only creates confusion if http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/2a5850513:26
rafamth: what?13:30
rafaopendingux kernel for what?13:30
lars_viric: mips32r113:31
viricin terms of gcc arch, mips32, right?13:32
rafamth: ah.. for dingoo :D13:34
rafamth: yeah.. I still need to learn the whole system you already have13:35
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Put libraries at end of linker invocation to make it work with local http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/fa7fb4815:16
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: - fw/atspi/Makefile (USB_ID): corrected and updated USB ID extraction http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9a6b3fc15:27
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: More config rearranging: USB IDs are now in include/atspi/usb-ids.h, which http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/537c67515:27
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Simplified the presentation of build date information and added a http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bb4b07f15:27
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Fix typo and make "make dfu" work again. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bf74a0315:27
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Introduce library with ATSPI access functions (largely untested) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/ac349b015:27
wpwrakah, been a while since the last push ;-)15:28
viricwpwrak: that benchmark I did... all was compiled for mips116:35
viricwpwrak: instead of mips3216:35
viricwpwrak: I'll try with uclibc your memset benchmark17:21
viricwpwrak: 4.03s in average17:22
viricit is gcc 4.5.1 + uclibc 0.9.31 for mips3217:23
viric(statically linked test)17:23
viricwpwrak: Now I built with glibc for mips32 (the 4.4s measure was for mips1), and in this case I get an average of 3.9617:33
wpwrakah, so now they're the same. 64 MB/s.17:37
viricis that the jlime speed?17:38
viricI hope with this 'mips32' (I thought I had to use mips1 before) prboom will take less battery :)17:39
wpwrakyes, that's roughly the jlime speed. i think rafa said ~68 MB/s. so that's well within tolerances.17:39
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: Routing http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/899d59917:39
wpwrakhehe ;-)17:39
wpwrakah no. he wrote 65 MB/s. so it's the same.17:39
wpwrakwhat options did you use on gcc ?17:40
viricbuilding gcc?17:40
wpwrakno, when invoking it17:40
viricgcc -static -O917:40
wpwrakah, nothing special for the cpu then17:40
viricthe gcc was built with "--with-arch=mips32"17:41
viricso it assumes that arch17:41
viricat every invocation17:41
wpwrakhmm. mine seems to be mips1, too17:44
wpwrakthe mips gcc should support several mips targets. you can switch them with -march=mips1|mips32|etc. no need to rebuild gcc just for that17:45
viricwell, for my case it's not any additional effort17:45
viricand this way I don't have to set anything special building every package. I get mips32 everywhere17:45
wpwrakone man's excessive effort is another man's laziness ;-)17:46
wpwraknow, let's see how this goes on my ben ...17:46
wpwraki should probably remove gmenu2x if it likes to play with the clocks ...17:47
viricI don't have it17:47
tuxbrain2I think the newest version should not play with clocks it was removed due flickering screen problems, but I'm not totally sure about this17:48
viricdo you use any NES emulator in the ben?17:49
wpwraktuxbrain2: yes, but this ben of mine still has the factory installation. i'll save the system upgrade for another day.17:50
wpwrakviric: me ? no. so far, i hardly "use" it at all. it suffers considerable abuse on the hardware side, though ;-)17:51
tuxbrain2so if you have the old gmenu2x yes remove it to do the performance tests17:51
viricwpwrak: ok :)17:51
wpwrakafter getting rid of gmenu2x, i get ~60 MB/s. too. no difference between mips1 and mips32 here. mips32r2 is a bit faster, though. (~2 MB/s)18:03
viricwpwrak: lars_ said the cpu should be mips32, not mips32r218:04
viricmaybe it is something in between18:04
viricwpwrak: the difference between mips1 and mips32 is at the time of compiling the libc, not the program18:04
wpwrak(mips1) ah, okay18:05
wpwrak(mips32r2) maybe it turns into a mips32r2 only for benchmarks ;-)18:05
virictuxbrain2: can you paste somewhere your asoundrc configuration?18:16
tuxbrain2viric actually using jlime , it can be valid?18:17
tuxbrain2also if you can tell me where this file is sopossed to be will be helpfull as well, I using opkg that drain resources as hell and not able do do a #find18:19
viricI only want the soft volume18:20
virictuxbrain2: ~/.asoundrc?18:21
viricor /etc/alsa/asoundrc? I'm not sure18:21
tuxbrain2I have no found any asoundrc file in jlime---?18:39
viricand you have softvol?19:06
viricBtw, I'm trying to run mpg321, and it does not work fast enough for the ben19:08
viricalthough it uses the same libmad 'madplay' should use.19:10
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: some eth-phy to s6 nets has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/033f36119:11
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: some eth-phy to s6 nets has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/e0d4a5920:10
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: some eth-phy to s6 nets has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/7c3c9a821:07
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: some eth-phy to s6 nets has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/a56645a21:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Active-high IRQ_RF was routed to active-low interrupt input http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1d0793322:20
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: xxx_MODE were used as if they were port bits, not registers. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/14c1b4c22:20
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: We can now read the transceiver's registers. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/4b2042122:20
turtleehi all.22:56
turtleeMr. Spraul! Nice to meet you.23:05
turtleeI got my nn on Monday and have been enjoying it.23:06
wolfspraulsame here - what takes you here?23:06
wolfsprauloh nice! well thanks for buying one first of all!23:06
wolfspraulyou just entered a massive construction site :-)23:06
turtleeHehe. I can see that! But it's well worth it. It takes me back to the fun of discovery I enjoyed as a child in the late 1980s.23:07
turtleeI'm here tonight because I've been playing with the startup sequence and I'd like to understand it better.23:08
wolfspraulturtlee: "I am a craftsman and I live and work within the belief that fine, durable workmanship combined with good design helps create a better world. I am passionate about quality and have been fortunate to study its expression in wood, metal, leather, and stone."23:09
wolfspraulthat's you?23:09
turtleeIndeed it is.23:09
wolfspraulgreat! we wish we get to those standards one day... it's a very good mission statement.23:09
wolfspraulWerner has been doing some 3D scanning work lately, have you seen that?23:10
turtleeNo, I haven't. Do you have a link?23:10
nebajothmailing list thread about the 3d scans: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-July/003231.html23:11
nebajothand: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-July/003379.html23:11
nebajothalso welcome turtlee23:11
nebajothyour mission statement sounds awesome23:12
turtleeThanks very much. I also like this quote from Anthony Bourdain that a friend sent me the other day:23:13
turtleePeople will continue to pay for quality. They will be less and less23:13
turtleeinclined, however, to pay for bullshit."23:13
Action: turtlee "If there's a new and lasting credo from the Big Shakeout, it's this: People will continue to pay for quality. They will be less and less inclined, however, to pay for bullshit."23:14
turtleeWell, close enough.23:14
wolfspraulwell exchanging these nice words is good, but for the Ben we have to keep our expectations realistic. It's a long way.23:14
wolfspraulfor example several connectors really suck, sorry about that23:15
wolfspraulas a mechanical guy it's painful for me to imagine that you take a closer look one day23:15
wolfspraulbattery connector for example23:15
wolfspraulmicroSD connector, especially insertion pin23:15
turtleeFair enough, but it's still a pleasure to hold, and that's a start.23:15
wolfspraulthanks, yes. it's not a hopeless start.23:15
wolfsprauldid you see werner's work?23:15
wolfspraul(the url)23:16
turtleeI did. It's wildly cool. Thanks very much.23:16
turtleeSo, were there not solid models before the molds were made?23:16
wolfspraulwe bought the design, and the tooling process was done without any input or oversight from us23:17
turtleeAh, that makes sense.23:17
wolfspraulour volumes are too low for our own professional mechanical design right now23:17
wolfspraulbut now we have work like Werner's so hopefully we get this process all opened up slowly23:17
wolfspraulwerner is hanging out here in irc, btw, his nick is wpwrak23:17
turtleeAt least you found a way to produce at your low volumes.23:18
wolfspraulvery hard work, but it's moving23:18
turtleeI preordered a Pandora last December. Ultimately gave up.23:18
turtleeCancelled and ordered a BeagleBoard and an nn.23:18
wolfspraulyes our project is very different from those, in priorities23:19
wolfspraulfor me manufacturability comes first23:19
wpwrakwelcome, turtlee ! you came to the right place :) mechanical is the weakest area of the whole process (and the device has its flaws there, too)23:19
turtleeThanks, Werner. :)23:20
turtleeI look at the frustration on the Pandora boards, and I think if they'd started from manufacturability at the outset, they could have arrived at this point with a lot more polish on the software and a lot more enthusiasm, even after the long wait.23:21
nebajothhell yeah23:22
nebajothwolfspraul is a pragmatist23:22
nebajothand it makes all the difference in the world23:22
wolfspraulthe pandora guys are fighting a massive uphill battle23:22
nebajothjust like torvalds is a pragmatist23:22
wolfspraulfirst they use more 'high-tech' than we have in the NanoNote, like the OMAP chip, and Wi-Fi23:22
turtleeI've been cruising around playing Flashback (via REmeniscence) and Monuments of Mars (via dosbox) on my nn.23:23
wolfspraulthen they do some work steps in China (mechanical), but they seem to have zero experience in actual manufacturing, so they learn painful lessons, and slowly.23:23
wolfspraulnow they are moving more work to the UK, and sooner or later they will realize that costs are going through the roof.23:24
wolfspraulso I don't know.23:24
wolfspraulI make my little NanoNote.23:24
wolfspraulmaufacturing under control23:24
turtleeAnd I enjoy your little nanonote.23:24
wolfspraulcan sell profitably at 99 USD, actually working towards reducing prices23:24
wolfspraulI take the beating and laughing over the hardware specs, no problem. Others can wait for their Pandora, position whatever in the queue :-)23:25
turtleeHeh, and they're just another layer. Look at the comments at Engadget about Pandora, and it's the same story.23:25
wolfspraulpeople don't like the hw specs anymore?23:26
wolfspraulengadget is typically just a hw spec pissing match23:26
wolfspraul"hey, my LCM has 40,000 dpi, how about yours?"23:26
turtleeSo, here's my experience:23:27
wolfspraulit's hilarious :-) also engadget has how much percent news that is just announcements? I stopped wondering.23:27
wolfspraulof course if you have to compete over numbers eventually you find out the numbers in the announcements are so much higher23:27
wolfspraulwe should announce a new NanoNote, with specs that beat the iPhone23:28
wolfspraulI'm sure engadget would take the 'story' (ahem)23:28
turtleeHah! That'll net you some press, at any rate.23:28
wolfspraulyeah, embarassing, isn't it.23:28
wolfspraulthis will never happen here.23:28
wolfspraulI rather build it slowly and through actual strength rather than announcements strength.23:29
turtleeYou and I are of the same mind.23:29
wpwrakwolfspraul: you're too late. there's that video about the "xphone" ...23:30
Action: turtlee looks into the youtube23:31
turtleeI took my foray into app-phones with a Droid, and am nonplussed. I think it's fair to say that I am not the target audience for convergence devices.23:35
turtleeI do have some specific tech questions.23:37
turtlee(and will be back here to talk shop again. you guys are fantastic.)23:38
nebajothits a trap!23:38
wolfspraulwpwrak: hah yes, it's great! thanks for the link didn't see it before23:38
turtleeI've already deactivated the gp2x menu23:39
turtleeper the new user guide instructions on the wiki.23:39
nebajothreal men run debian23:39
turtleenebajoth: Ah! So they do. Do we have a good keymap for debian yet?23:39
nebajothnot integrated into the rootfs yet though :D23:40
nebajothbut nothing keeping anybody from downloading it and using loadkeys23:40
nebajothand even making it automatic23:40
turtleeBecause that would probably induce answers to my other questions right away.23:41
nebajoththat one works nicely23:41
nebajothI further customized that one to make the capslock key give a dash (-)23:42
nebajothwhich I use all the time since I don't have any graphical environment installed on my NN23:42
turtleeAnd the flashing instructions on pyneo.org are good?23:42
nebajothyeah basically23:42
nebajothit leaves out some important bits23:42
nebajothlike the fact that you pretty much NEED swap space to run apt-get23:42
nebajothat least until I figure out where the hell compcache went in 2.6.3623:43
turtleeBut I can put that on the onboard nand, right? I've got an 8gig microsd. Not exactly hurting for space.23:44
nebajothI do it the other way around23:44
nebajothOS on the nand, swap on a 1G microsd23:44
nebajothbut what you describe would be fine23:44
nebajothpossibly even better23:45
wolfspraulturtlee: large parts of the Ben NanoNote kernel will be showing up in the 2.6.36 mainline kernel!23:45
nebajothyeah that's my headache now23:45
wolfspraulthat's really excellent and I hope it will make the job of people like nebajoth working on Debian easier...23:45
nebajothI want to compile 2.6.3623:46
nebajothbut I also want to enable compressed ram23:46
nebajothand there seem to have been some serious changes in the way compressed ram is dealt with in 2.6.3623:46
wolfspraulmaybe it will make your life easier over time :-)23:46
nebajothand I'm trying to wrap my head around it23:46
nebajothI'm sure 2.6.37 will be AWESOME23:46
turtleeWow, with so many distros running around, it's easy to forget that there's still a central kernel dev effort.23:47
nebajothsomebody doesn't read his lkml23:48
wolfspraulactually I am also working on getting xburst-tools into Debian23:48
wolfspraulpuh, hard23:48
wolfspraulmaybe soon we'll be there23:48
nebajothwe're gonna need zramconfig in there too23:49
nebajothI'll attempt it23:49
nebajothI'm not adding to your todos23:49
nebajothjust saying23:49
nebajothwell hell23:50
wolfspraulnebajoth: zramconfig in where?23:50
nebajothit should make it easier that its in ubuntu23:50
nebajothin debian23:50
wolfspraulI first want to get it into Debian, then improve the code inside (usbboot & xbboot utilities).23:50
nebajothits the userspace configuration utility for compressed ram23:50
nebajothI'm going to have to compile it from source23:50
nebajothif I ever get past the 2.6.36 kernel compile23:50
nebajothwhich is looking increasingly headachey23:51
turtleei'm the opposite of an expert on software engineering, but shouldn't a kernel compile be the most brain-dead-simple compile in the world?23:53
wpwraksimpler than "hello world" ? :)23:54
turtleei mean,23:54
turtleeDon't you need a kernel before you can have "hello world"?23:55
turtlee(Maybe I just need a kernel before I can have "hello world".)23:56
nebajothits not hard to actually compile23:56
nebajothwhat I'm finding difficult23:56
nebajothis determining what happened to the actual architecture of the component I need23:56
nebajoththey renamed it, for one23:56
nebajothall the CONFIG_X options seem gone23:56
nebajothand there's zero documentation outside of the git changelogs23:57
nebajothso I'm looking through those, trying to figure out whether the CONFIG_X settings got moved, removed, or what23:57
turtleeThat's...odd. o_O23:57
nebajothits probably really simple23:58
nebajothand I just don't understand what's going on23:58
nebajothI think it might just not need configs anymore23:58
nebajothand they're gone23:58
turtleeSo, swap was invented to make up for inadequate physical RAM,23:59
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