#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2010-08-19

qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added boot loader for C8051F326 (using f326xbase) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/00f282500:15
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Boot loader Makefile cleanup. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2c8c60900:15
wpwrakaha ! f326xbase doesn't get tracked yet.00:15
wolfspraulwpwrak: added00:19
wpwrakthanks !00:19
wolfspraulneed to automate some of those things, I hope Indefero just gets better over time by itself :-)00:19
wolfspraulright now the amount of time it would take me to automate this is more than occasionally fixing new projects manually00:19
wpwrakdoes it generate notifications so that you at least know that something needs doing ?00:20
wolfsprauldon't think so, need to look into it00:20
wolfspraulmy plan was to make project creation easier with a form00:20
wolfspraulbut then I am also hoping it will just show up in Indefero magically one day :-)00:21
wpwrakbtw, it would be nice if the downloads were a little more direct, not sourceforge-style with a number and via several intermediate pages. in particularly, it would be nice if one could, once at the place where the downloadable file is shown, just copy a clearly downloadable url.00:22
wpwrakif they're busy working on it, it might, eventually :)00:22
wolfspraulI agree. they have this get/ system, I don't really like that either.00:22
wolfspraulIndefero is definitely actively being developed.00:23
wolfspraulbut it's largely a 1-person project00:23
wolfspraulmy #1 priority in Indefero now is to do some kicad automation. but I have so many todo items everywhere it all takes some time.00:24
wolfspraulit took a year to get where we are now with the servers...00:24
wolfspraulthe kicad stuff is important because I can later see us automatically generating not only schematics but also bom or other data views from the kicad files00:25
wolfsprauleasily sortable components lists, etc.00:25
wpwrakyup, that sounds nice. of course, a few strategically places makefile would allow project members to generate them on their own as well - and see any errors as well00:26
wpwraks/places/placed/00:26
wpwraki'm curious what the memset speed with jlime is. with the openwrt build, it seems pretty horrible. the cpu shouldn't really find it difficult to saturate the bus.00:33
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [guile] add comment, this package needs guile installed in host pc http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/386b73703:16
bartbesthis is the fun part! ;)04:04
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add [kbd] and [console-fonts] to config http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/66055c904:18
bartbesyay04:18
bartbesI'm with qi-bot!04:18
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: eth-phy routing startted http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/f4bebe506:41
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: fw/boot/boot.c (boot_loader): removed description of IDBG-specific power http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/97d2ed108:04
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: fw/atspi/: added application with basic EP0 protocol http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/ada1ee008:05
rafawpwrak: hey.. I can test after noon ;) (how fast test..)08:10
tuxbrain2rafa: have you see this? http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_Nanowar_Edition#A_TRUE_QHBNNTSENOFPBT08:11
wpwrakrafa: ok, thanks ! by the way, do you want a counterweight for your Ben before the trip ?08:14
zeartuxbrain2, that looks great08:18
tuxbrain2zear: and sounds even greater :P08:19
zear:D08:19
wpwraktuxbrain2: your counterweights are drying now. have tnt responded yet ?08:23
tuxbrain2on his return from holidays on 22th08:26
wpwrakwow. when will you release ?08:27
rafatuxbrain2: YEAH!!!!!... I saw that .. but I was so jealous if that is the proper word to use!!!.. really cool! I want one of this.. definitely08:42
tuxbrain2wpwrak:  on september(tm) trying to obtain a more precice date from the band...08:43
rafatuxbrain2: yep, the sound of nn is great (headphones).. but we should put the metal music with speaker as well.. so old people start to feel fear again of metal guys!08:43
tuxbrain2we want to make it coincide with the new album release.. on semptember.08:44
tuxbrain2hehehe rafa: a NN in the shoulder instead of a monstrous radiocasette, times are changing :P08:45
rafawpwrak: yes.. I want one of that.. just few days before the trip. So I would need to try to get one of this from you. No sure if I know well how to put that inside :)08:47
wpwrakrafa: reminds me of the days when i just had finished studying and got my first decent laptop (an IBM TP 700-something). i was riding the tramway in zurich and a teenager nearby was playing something beeping annoyingly on a gameboy. well, i took out my laptop and played a bit of doom, with all the sound. very satisfying :-)08:47
wpwraktuxbrain2: well, if your agent returns on the 22th and schedules the pickup for the 23th, you'll have it still within august.08:48
wpwrakrafa: pretty easy. one minute maybe. open case, pop out PCB, swipe bottom with alcohol, put counterweight and two drops of glue inside, put isolation tape on the buzzer, put in pcb, close case, done.08:49
rafatuxbrain2: I guess that a beta3 is ready around saturday.. no many changes. Just a great terminal, and calendar. And several fixes/adds useful for the final user: like a GUI to set date/time or audio volume. And other kind of stuff, like fn key working. SO if you have your job clean, then you could easily to use beta3 I guess.  Well, if you have already flashed all the machines then the work could be hard :)08:49
rafawpwrak: hahahah :D.. .dooom "is the game"08:50
rafametal game08:50
rafawpwrak: you did well..08:52
wpwrakrafa: back then, doom was also pretty much state of the art :)08:52
wpwrakyup, 1994 :)08:53
rafatuxbrain2: btw, IIRC there were doom level editors some time ago.. you could add a doom level with some new music stuff of that metal band.08:53
rafawpwrak: wow.. yeah. I remember that year.. I was deciding if to start university or play doom another year more08:54
rafa;-))08:54
wpwrakjust 16 years ago. feels like such a long time.08:54
rafaand it is still the best game for the new machines like nn perhaps08:55
wpwrakwolfspra1l: you should like this one: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2010/08/the-fear-tax.html08:56
rafahttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:QHBNNTSENOF_10.jpg08:58
rafathat is cool08:58
wpwrakhehe, metal dwarves ;-)09:00
wolfspra1lwpwrak: hilarious, yes! fear tax, totally09:13
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add test-memory-card.sh http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/621461509:57
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: PSU ICs has been selected http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/f12b0a710:52
wpwrak"wernerian" ;-)11:31
qi-bot[commit] Yanjun Luo: Change everything to small footprint. http://qi-hw.com/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/e2701b311:46
bartbesgreat12:18
bartbeslove.graphics isn't feature-complete yet, but it's getting there12:18
bartbesand love.audio and love.sound are left, I started working on love.audio today, so that is getting there too12:19
bartbes(audio is playback, sound is decoding)12:19
bartbesto anyone interested12:19
bartbesalso, while love.font runs, you can't actually draw fonts yet (that is one of the missing features in love.graphics)12:20
bartbes(this also means that love.thread is running and working)12:21
rafawpwrak: hey, ready to test :)13:31
rafawpwrak: Jlime$ time ./test13:34
rafareal    0m 4.45s13:34
rafauser    0m 4.43s13:34
rafasys     0m 0.00s13:34
rafawpwrak: what should we check exactly?13:34
wpwrakmuch faster than with openwrt ! you're getting 58 MB/sec, whle I go 38 MB/sec. so that's 150% the uClibc speed.13:35
wpwrakstill not perfect, though13:36
wpwrakgotta run now. back in a few hours. let13:36
wpwraks see if we can make this hum a little faster :)13:36
wpwrakthanks !13:36
rafano problem!.. happy to help13:36
rafawpwrak: so my system is 150% faster than yours??!.. HA!.. poor tortoise.. ;-))13:37
rafa50%13:39
Textmodewhy do I have the sudden urge to see if I can get a mush to run on my NN?16:13
tuxbrain2a mush?16:24
tuxbrain2what is a mush?16:24
wpwrakrafa: btw, did you check if there are any cpu-intensive background processes ? e.g., on mine, i killed the evil gmenu2x that was burning quite some cpu time, despite the system being perfectly idle16:37
wpwrakrafa: with gmenu2x, it was even slower ...16:37
Textmodetuxbrain2: MultiUser Shared Hallucination. do you remember playing on old MUD games? or failing that, text adventures?16:42
Textmodetuxbrain2: basically MUSHes were a more generalised offshoot of MUD development.16:44
nebajothTextmode: I ran NakedMUD successfully17:02
nebajothand yessss17:02
nebajothmisspent youth17:03
nebajothdialup accounts with the university at the age of 14, and mudding until the wee hours17:03
wpwrakthose were the days. i let a friend run an LPmud on "my" sgi at the university. it turned into an efficient death trap for students easily distracted from work necessary to further their career :)17:06
Textmodewpwrak: yeah, MUDs were famous in acedemia for just that reason.17:17
Textmodealso good for soaking up wads of CPU time on the campus's computers, to the point where many outright banned them from being run on their machines :)17:17
rafawpwrak: I have a little better time now.. no much though, and I did not change nothing. Also I guess that I have a lot more processes.. at least we have dbus, Xfbdev, matchbox window manager, matchbox desktop, torsmo, and few more17:25
rafawpwrak: but that does not mean that those eat more cpu of course.17:26
wpwrakTextmode: in my case, most of the flak came from the central services, because all out dial-in ports were occupied with mudders17:26
Textmodehehehe17:26
wpwrakrafa: but none of them show up as doing something in top ?17:27
rafawpwrak: no.. they are good boys :)17:27
Action: wpwrak wonders if gmenu2x has since been taught not to do such things17:28
rafawpwrak: I like gmenu2x.. but I would use it just as launcher if I would have a specific goal to accomplish. For example, when I was thinking gamerunner, gmenu2x was my prefered gui in my todo list. But no now that we have keyboard and of course linux, a multitasking OS17:34
rafawpwrak: zear showed me gmenu2x as idea for gamerunner, one year ago, or more.. he always knows nice geek stuff no so common between linux users :)17:37
zearbecause i'm a fan of linux based game consoles17:38
wpwrakokay, so it may just need a little bit of fixing17:38
zearso i knew about gmenu2x since ever ;)17:38
rafazear: ;-)17:39
mthwpwrak: I added Uli's fix for gmenu2x consuming lots of CPU when idle to the git archive on projects.qi-hardware.com17:40
mthand a lot of other fixes from me and Ayla as well17:40
mthit's still not perfect, but it's in much better shape than before17:40
rafawpwrak: well, I still prefer a lot more a X+WM which does almos nothing, but let you run a few X applications at the same time and control them ;)17:41
rafa(for nanonote)17:41
wpwrakmth: great, thanks ! what i'm running at the moment is still the stuff it came with from the factory17:42
wpwrakhah ! my first ben-wpan board isn't dead. i just had mis-soldered the crystal.17:57
wpwraknow ... how do i measure if it's truly accurate to 40 ppm ... hmm ...17:57
wpwrakonly the usrp2. that one's got a 20 ppm clock. all the other instruments are much worse. hmm .. there's a shop in town that has a frequency counter that does 1 ppm ...18:12
Textmoderafa: no ideas on that vid file?18:13
rafaTextmode: ah.. yes... I have some ideas.. but I have not checked.. been busy :)18:24
rafaTextmode: the mplayer complains about spacecolors18:24
rafaand then it scales the whole movie..18:24
rafaso it tries to use a bigger res than 320x240+.. and then it fails..18:25
Textmode...18:25
rafabut I also did the movie smaller in res.. and it fails as well. So now I was thinking to convert that spacecolor thing to check if something works :P18:25
rafa(at least)18:25
rafaTextmode: btw you have weirds movies18:26
rafa:)18:26
Textmodeif it helps, I converted it from a ogv, made with "Istanbul" (screen recording software)18:26
bartbesbtw, Textmode, would you like a status update on nlove (working name of the love port)18:27
Textmodeyeah, its a recording/demo of a Kobold Runecrafter from my the nwn survival server "Dawn of New Dead" (I didn't name it :P). I was their scripter.18:27
Textmodebartbes: yeah?18:28
bartbeswell, love.graphics isn't complete yet, but getting there (most obvious missing feature is fonts), I started work on love.audio and only love.sound has no port yet (love.audio doesn't run, I must admit)18:29
bartbeseven love.thread runs18:29
Textmodebartbes: not even imageFonts?18:29
bartbesoh it's not too different internally18:29
bartbesI just haven't started on font rendering yet18:30
Textmodeawesome.18:30
Textmodeso definately looking good, then?18:31
Textmodedoes it have a repo?18:31
Textmodeah.18:31
bartbesno repo, no18:33
Textmodeokay.18:36
bartbesI could however...18:37
bartbessupply you with my current makefile18:37
bartbes(which downloads the code from my comp)18:37
tuxbrain2will be lovely to have "n:new" in addition of Enter:ok, and ESC:exit in fileselector , being optinal to show it trough a command param , for example "fileselector.bin -n /blah/blah" and if pressed "n" a simple text box to put the name of the file, this way we can create for example new text files and use vi, joe, nano or even gtkedit avoiding the use of the messed "open/save dialog"19:15
wpwrakwolfspraul: an idea to make the mailing lists a bit better (feasibility depends on how the archiving happens): before sending out a mail, attach the url of the archived version to the header, similar to the URL in List-Archive:20:38
wpwrakwolfspraul: this way, one could look up archive locations directly in one's own mailbox, without having to wade through the much less convenient archives20:39
wolfspraulhmm20:41
wolfspraulyou do want to innovate everywhere :-)20:41
wpwrakof course :)20:41
wolfspraulyou mean you want to jump from your inbox straight to the URL?20:41
wolfspraulto see messages following in this thread, or why?20:42
wolfspraulor so send the URL of this message to someone else?20:42
wpwrakmainly for references. e.g., search my sentbox for the something i have sent in the past, and then copy the archive url in a reply to the same topic coming up now20:42
wolfspraulI like the idea, I'll add it to the todo list, but I doubt I will get to this anytime soon.20:44
wolfspraulyou want this url just in a header, or in the message body? maybe in the footer would be nice?20:44
wpwrakkewl. anywhere in the mail where it's accessible will do. just no uuencoded .doc attachment :)20:45
wpwrakaah ! hardware counter plus GPS or NTP. cheap yet arbitrarily precise clock reference. i knew there was a reason for routing the clock output to the mcu :)21:05
wpwrakwell, it would work if the timers could count external events. which they can't in the C8051F326. grumble.21:10
wolfspraulnice. Intel bought McAfee for 8 billion USD. That should make some people think more about hardware and software companies :-)21:23
nebajothinteresting.21:24
wolfspraulwpwrak: I added your idea with the URL to mailing list archives to the todo, http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_setup#To_Do23:07
wolfspraulthanks! I really like the idea, at least it's recorded for now :-)23:07
kristianpaulA spokesperson for Intel said the deal highlights "that security is now a fundamental component of online computing".23:14
kristianpaulis getting worst :/23:15
wpwrakwolfspraul: <german>virtueller rundordner</german> ;-)23:15
wpwrakkristianpaul: "now" ;-))23:17
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw, "mailman doesn’t send mails back to sender" doesn't seem to be true. at least not for mails i send to the list.23:18
kristianpaulobvious acquisition targets not only for chip manufacturers but also hardware providers, such as mobile device manufacturers.23:18
kristianpaulwpwrak: yeah i dint23:18
kristianpauli must use groups response in mutt to follow the thread with my comments23:19
kristianpaulthats other good todo :)23:19
wpwrakah, i always use "reply to group" (with mutt) but the reply-to overrides it with the list anyway.23:20
wolfspraulwpwrak: that's separate23:24
wolfspraulthe mailing list purists like to not use the reply-to address to 'force' mails back to the list23:25
wolfspraulbut if we would do this, I guarantee you _many_ mails that are intended for the list would end up being sent only to the sender of the mail23:25
wolfspraulthe purists are saying that's great, you should err on the side of privacy23:25
wpwrakyeah, i prefer the unforced variant for myself too. maybe not for others, though ;-)23:26
wolfspraulI respect that in general, but it would create so much maintenance headache for me that I chose to use the more 'convenient' reply-to feature.23:26
wolfspraulI think 90% of all email users don't understand the difference between 'reply' 'reply all/group/list' whatever23:26
wolfspraulso I will not change the reply-to setting23:26
wpwrakand about 3/4 the ones that still arrive privately ought to go to the list anyway ;)23:26
wolfspraulthe bug that is written up there is that for some reason, emails that people send to the list are not sent back to them, even though they are subscribed to the list23:27
wpwrakhmm. mine are.23:27
wolfspraulthere is a configuration setting for each subscriber to turn this on or off (default is 'on'), but it doesn't work, at least not for many people23:27
wolfspraulI don't know why.23:27
wolfspraulneed to debug it inside mailman/exim and also one of those many things that is just not high enough on the priority list.23:27
wpwrakam i the only one ? or it it perhaps a "sometimes" bug ?23:27
wolfspraulI don't know. But I don't get my own mails, for example, so at least I can easily reproduce this problem :-)23:28
wpwrakfire and forget ;-)23:28
wpwrakwhile packrats like me get their own stuff back. mailman knows its users pretty well :)23:29
kristianpaul:) n823:30
Action: kristianpaul tomorrow traveling to a town next to the pacific ocean :) 23:31
wolfspraulnice23:31
kristianpauljust 2 hors from my home :D23:31
kristianpaulbye23:31
wolfsprauln823:31
nebajothlol23:36
nebajothI guess dpkg is a bit of a memory hog on debian for the nn23:37
nebajothwe discussed this on the mailing list some time back23:37
nebajothI've been using a microsd as swap space23:37
nebajothand that's just about the only way that beast will work23:37
nebajothso I was playing with it just now23:37
nebajothand I discovered a neat little webpage that explained how to enable /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory23:37
nebajothand let the linux kernel play a little more fast and loose with its memory23:38
nebajoththe negative ramification of which, of course, is that it (seemingly randomly) chooses processes to KILL when memory becomes in too great a demand23:38
nebajothso I was just experimenting with that23:38
nebajothand the process it chose to shut down23:39
nebajothwas my ssh connection23:39
nebajoth-_-23:39
nebajothnot gonna work23:39
wolfspraul:-)23:42
wolfspraulI read somewhere that more recent kernels like 34 or 35 introduced 'memory compression'23:42
wolfspraulno idea whether/how/how well this works23:42
nebajothas if i/o on this thing weren't slow enough :P23:44
nebajothwell, I'll look23:44
nebajothstill tweaking overcommit_memory and overcommit_ratio23:44
nebajothdon't want to release an updated debian rootfs until it can be done without a microsd23:44
nebajothwolfspraul: you mean this? http://code.google.com/p/compcache/23:52
nebajothoh interesting23:54
nebajothI believe android custom roms are using this23:54
nebajothoh23:55
nebajothand compression is faster than swapping23:55
nebajothfascinating.23:55
wolfspraulnebajoth: yes, the changelog seems to suggest that it went mainline23:58
wolfspraulso maybe that's it? I don't know, I just read about 'compressed memory' somewhere.23:58
nebajothI think this must be it23:59
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