#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2010-08-17

zhangyixiangfu: a question for you, where normally i can put music files on NN?00:07
xiangfuzhangyi:  just put them under "/root"00:08
zhangyixiangfu: ah, okay00:08
zhangyixiangfu: thanks00:08
xiangfuzhangyi: :)00:10
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: DDR0 termaintor placement http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/5c25d1c00:31
uncloudedI'm trying to port a package to OpenWRT and I say "make package/vice/{clean,compile} V=99" and it says "make[2]: Nothing to be done for `compile'.".  Why would it say this?02:04
larscno Package/vice/install section02:08
uncloudeddoes that stop it compiling?  I did comment that section out temporarily02:09
larscyes02:09
uncloudedthanks very much.  that's sorted it02:13
qwebirc93558hi, Ive installed Debian but I cant apt-get update due to the size of the repo (i think) can anyone help?02:25
uncloudedhave you set up some swap?  apt-get update uses a lot of memory I think02:31
qwebirc93558I think that's the problem, how do i set up swap and should i keep it , i figured swap wouldn't be a good idea on flash memory02:34
uncloudedhave you installed to SD or to the NAND?02:37
qwebirc93558to the NAND02:37
uncloudedhave you got a micro-SD to use for swap? it's obviously a lot easier and cheaper to replace a micro-SD than you NAND if you -do- swap it to death02:39
qwebirc93558no i'm limited to the NAND for now02:39
uncloudedsorry I don't know how to set up swap on NAND.  do you know if swap can work with NBDs?  that might be an option assuming you don't need swap when you're on the road02:41
uncloudedseems it might be possible to swap on NBDs: http://wiki.emqbit.com/set up swap over nbd02:43
unclouded( sorry the URL is broken with spaces.  you might need to clean that up)02:43
qwebirc93558that looks helpful, thanks!02:46
uncloudedyou'll need to make sure the nbd module is in your NanoNote kernel though02:47
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add console fonts package http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/be138dd06:12
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update email address http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/d918c8306:12
lekernelhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_News_2010-08-1110:38
wolfspraullekernel: he, our community news are so abandoned - thanks for picking this up!10:48
wolfspraulI just changed the kernel credits from mirko to lars, I think that's fair to say.10:48
wolfspraulI need to get back to this whole PR/press thing soon...10:49
lekernelbtw do we have people going/speaking to http://www.openhardwaresummit.org ?12:35
Snicker413Hello, im looking for someone knowledged to configurize a new computer for me13:01
kristianpauli think not14:03
kyakMD5 sum of the downloaded file does not match (file: 62653037d2046d992626eaf6d0a14:19
kyak365e3, requested: 88a4f12e6388dfd58fc0c8162c3a99c7) - deleting download.14:19
kyakgmu-0.7.1.tar.gz14:19
kyaki hope this is not just a Makefile..14:19
kyakok, PKG_MD5SUM is left over from 0.7.014:22
kyakwejp: btw, you should better make md5sums of your releases publically available...14:24
wejpkyak, you got a point there, i already wanted to do that, but somewhat forgot about it14:26
wpwraktuxbrain2: i think i finally found a paint for the counterweight i like. it's epoxy-based is applied on top of a primer. nice tough shiny surface. i should have the whole batch ready tomorrow night. now, how will i get them to you ?17:33
wpwraktuxbrain2: your choices include regular mail, fedex, dhl, ups, tnt, or ems. maybe there are more, but i would have to check if we have them here.17:36
bartbesemergency medical services?17:37
wpwrakbartbes: Express Mail Service - the response of the national postal organizations to the courier services17:37
bartbes;)17:38
wpwrakbartbes: often cheaper than the others. tracking isn't as good (only origin and destination, but nothing in between), and it can be a bit slower. here in argentina, ems has some interesting differences from other couriers in customs treatment.17:39
bartbeswasn't tuxbrain2 in... spain?17:39
tuxbrain2wpwrak: I don't know regular mail in argentina , but in spain is a mess (I don't say any stronger word due this channel is loggeg :P)17:39
bartbeswoo my stalking powers still exist!17:39
wpwraktuxbrain2: regular mail is also pretty slow. it seems to be more or less reliable, though. that is, unless you're sending valuables. then it's very reliable, too, but in a different way.17:40
tuxbrain2I have also a bad experience with EMS (a package from wolfgang has never arrived, good bye spark batteries and rubber buttons :()17:42
tuxbrain2tell me the weight and dimensions on the packages and I will agree a pick up with my courier17:43
tuxbrain2send me also in private where to pickup :)17:44
tuxbrain2my mail david@tuxbrain.com17:44
bartbesoh no17:44
bartbesthat is logged! ;)17:44
wpwraktuxbrain2: the package will be about 500 g. not very big, maybe 10 x 10 x 3 cm or such. depends on what sort of box i find.17:46
tuxbrain2hehehe that mail is everywhere  , so well I want it to be as spreaded as it can, and well maybe someday I decide to enlarge my ..... or buy some blue pills, or promote my site to maximum with the most fantastics visit rates!!!17:46
bartbeshaha17:47
bartbesget some nice brides over from russia etc17:47
tuxbrain2yes!! I laugh a lot when a see the same russia girl also from Ukraine, and the most LOL of all in a banner where I can date her in my own town :)17:48
wpwraktuxbrain2: so you remmeber them ;-)17:49
Action: tuxbrain2 thinks this girl is searchin for me :P17:49
tuxbrain2my brain works in non standard way, I can remember a lot of useless things but I can forget If I have dinner or not :P17:50
bartbesheh same here17:50
wpwraktuxbrain2: good that your stomach will to the thinking for you in this case :)17:50
bartbesI can forget stuff like birthdays (not like I miss them, but just totally forget the dates) and names17:51
bartbesbut I remember seemingly random numbers for example17:51
tuxbrain2for desperation of my mother before and now my wife, my daughter is only 4 years old but she repeats the importat things for her to me more than twice :)17:51
bartbes"Yeah, I bought that for 90 cents" me: "82 cents actually"17:51
bartbesthat kind of shit17:51
tuxbrain2bartbes: we must build a club :)17:52
bartbesor like when people say something I remember it17:52
bartbesbut when they later say "Yeah, tuesday is going to be fun!"17:52
bartbesI'm like "What the hell is happening tuesday?"17:52
tuxbrain2tuesday what happens tuesday17:52
tuxbrain2hahaahhahah17:53
tuxbrain2yeaH!17:53
bartbesand when they say the first 2 words I'm like "OOoh.. tuesday..."17:53
bartbesat least I know my shit when it comes to programming17:53
bartbes:317:53
wpwraktuxbrain2: i'll let you know when i have the thing ready for shipping. probably thursday morning.17:53
wpwraktuxbrain2: i also need to find out if it makes sense to send you some for wolfgang or not. do you often ship things to him ?17:54
tuxbrain2wpwrak: ok if my courier agent is not on holidays I will ask for quote for pick up with your data17:54
wpwraktuxbrain2: which courier it is ?17:55
tuxbrain2wpwrak: not not really is usually the inverse, you know , he made nanos , :P17:55
wpwraktuxbrain2: yeah, that's what surprised me a bit in his suggestion :) but then i though perhaps there are returns or such.17:56
tuxbrain2wpwrak: he usually use UPS (good balance between price/service in country and EU) but on international Import/export is too expensive and for this is cheaper TNT17:57
tuxbrain2so TNT the most probably17:57
tuxbrain2wpwrak: who knows maybe he plans to visit his preffered distributor17:58
tuxbrain2:)17:58
bartbestnt being the dutch company?18:02
tuxbrain2bartbes: mmm I don't know, I just go 25m to my couriers office :P any problem with dutch people (apart than his football fairplay sucks :P)18:04
tuxbrain2dutch=Netherlands , isn't it?18:05
bartbesyes18:06
wpwraktuxbrain2: about USD 100 it seems18:07
tuxbrain2I think the will offer me a better price :)18:07
tuxbrain2the->they18:07
wpwraknice :)18:07
tuxbrain2bartbes: yes, Netherlands or yes, I have problems with dutch?18:19
tuxbrain2:P18:20
wpwraktuxbrain2: using "dutch" and "fair play" in the same sentence after their recent performance is already mildly offensive :)18:21
tuxbrain2I love this soundtrack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4OIKCL9HKY18:23
Action: tuxbrain2 slaps various times his face repeating, no more football in #qi-hardware18:33
wpwrakat least not for another ~3.75 years :)18:34
Textmodeunder jlime, the mount point for the SD slot is /mnt/card/, right?19:49
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: ddr terminators placment http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/00a88f820:05
Textmodehello?20:34
wolfspraulyes20:36
Action: Textmode huggles wolfspraul20:37
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: fpga decoupling cap. placement improved http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/7be9df320:37
Textmodehaving trouble getting my SD card recognised, I'm starting to onder if I'm looking in the right place :/20:37
wolfspraulthere was a u-boot bug with larger cards, I think it's fixed though20:39
Textmode2gb card under jlime.20:39
wolfspraulthat should work20:47
wolfspraulwhat exactly is wrong?20:47
Textmodeit...doesn't mount.20:49
Textmodeno automount, can't even force mount it.20:49
Textmodewhich makes me wonder if I'm even looking in the right place / issuing the right commands.20:50
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: fpga decoupling cap. placement improved http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/ef7e11620:50
wolfspraulok I see, unfortunately I have no idea what the right command could be20:50
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw, now that the counterweights will travel to tuxbrain by courier, does it really make sense to send yours there as well ? he said that he doesn't usually ship things to you, and you mentioned that you wouldn't go there anytime soon either.20:54
wolfspraulhe21:00
wolfspraulrafa will not take any now?21:00
wpwraknaw, tuxbrain confirmed his worries about hostile spanish immigration21:00
wolfspraulwow, depressing21:01
wpwrakthey do seem to be pretty bad. he knows people who have been sent back.21:01
wolfspraulI don't need the counterweight urgently, and I hate to waste more in shipping, so let's wait a bit I look for a good opportunity.21:02
wpwrakokay. they should age well :)21:02
wolfspraul:-)21:03
wolfspraulyou feel better now? (flu)21:03
wpwrakyeah. weird bug. sunday i was asleep almost all day. monday morning i felt good. the afternoon like a zombie. today was good again. let's see what tomorrow brings :)21:05
wpwraki see that the 12 MHz crystal has a tolerance of 30 ppm. very good :) that way, the cpu could probbaly be used to feed a clock to the RF transceiver. (needs 16 MHz at 40 ppm)21:06
wpwrakof course, those 30 ppm are probably 30 ppm base tolerance plus thermal tolerance, which is often the same again. so it may not be quite perfect.21:07
wpwrak(the crystal is a bit of a problem when trying to fit the circuit into the display case. it needs a large trace-free area for itself. so this means either a big board or at least 4 layers. feeding an external clock signal would avoid needing a crystal for rf.)21:08
wpwrak(still have to check if the 4740 can actually generate a 16 MHz signal in its present configuration, though)21:09
wolfspraulok, sounds interesting21:13
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw, when do you think the time will come for a MilkyMist NanoNote ?22:09
wolfspraulhe22:09
wolfspraulin 5 years :-)22:09
wolfsprauldon't know22:09
wolfspraulthere are so many things moving now, and not enough sales yet. I first need to do more work to generate more sales.22:10
wpwrakquite a while :)22:10
wpwrakah yes, always that money :)22:10
wolfspraulwell it's an almost endless todo list, isn't it?22:10
wolfspraulbut definitely that's on the horizon22:10
wpwrak(MM NN) i mean, with FPGA. not ASIC or such.22:10
wolfspraulif the power consumption is acceptable. I don't know, it's way too early.22:11
wolfspraulstep by step22:11
wolfspraulwe are gearing up for the next milkymist run btw, rc222:11
wpwraki'm asking because sebastian was concerned that his project wasn't getting much attention from developers. i wonder if it may be mainly seen as a gadget for VJs, not as a Free SoC. changing the setting may affect this perception.22:13
wolfspraulwpwrak: do you develop an interest in milkymist?22:13
wolfsprauloh totally22:13
wpwrakalso, the fpga isn't particularly big22:13
wolfspraulin my experience technology and marketing are two totally separate thngs22:13
wolfspraulwe have done a little bit of NanoNote marketing, with some success, not much but some22:13
wolfspraulSebastien has done some for Milkyist too, again not that much22:14
wpwrak(mm) it looks like solid work. too slow to compete, of course, but that may be in no small part because it's in an fpga.22:14
wolfspraulso we need to get back at the marketing game, definitely22:14
wolfspraulwork with journalists, get the word out, etc. it's hard.22:14
wolfspraulI do believe our fundamentals are good though, as a whole (the whole copyleft hardware project).22:15
wpwrakwell, the main appeal of MM would be technology :) maybe it could get some interest from the Free religious front too, of course22:15
wolfspraulso yes, of course, it needs to be seen as a Free SoC, and as another ARM/MIPS22:15
wpwrak(marketing) the ben could indeed use a push or two. but what would do that - and could happen relatively soon and without too much work ?22:20
wpwrakat least the thebeez blog seems to have created some attention. mainly .nl-local though, it seems22:22
wolfsprauloh the Ben itself got quite good coverage, I cannot complain22:23
wolfspraulengadget, slashdot, linux.com, etc. japan, china, russia, everywhere.22:23
wolfspraulthe next step for the Ben is a great default image that makes it really usable22:24
wolfspraulof course things like your counterweight are also really cool because they show we have faith in the future, move towards Ya etc.22:24
wolfspraulbut back to Milkymist, do you develop an interest in that now?22:24
wolfspraulwe are currently having a small run of SIE22:24
wolfspraulafter that it's back to Milkymist One RC222:25
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_RC1_Known_Issues22:25
wolfspraulbasically this is what the RC1 yielded in terms of bugs22:25
wolfspraulwe hope RC2 is free of major bugs that limit functionality22:26
wpwrak(mm) i find the concept interesting. a had a fairly long chat with sebastian and i'm now also more convinced that the architecture is solid enough that you can do something "real" with it.22:27
wpwrakmaybe not quite as fast in all regards as the 4740 on a first try, but close enough that it doesn't really matter22:27
wolfspraulgood to hear that from you22:28
wolfspraulyes I think it's a solid project, and I think it fits with my larger copyleft hw project. otherwise I wouldn't pump my last savings into this, and work for free instead of doing the normal career bs in the industry...22:29
wolfspraulfirst I need to do my part good on the Milkymist One manufacturing side22:29
wpwrakthe known issues sound fairly minor already. i've seen much much worse in the errata of things from reputable big companies :)22:29
wolfspraulfirst 6 boards were great. all 6 worked (booted), and we were able to come up with really nice bug hunting results.22:29
wolfspraulwell, thanks :-)22:30
wolfspraulI do believe we have good people on everything.22:30
wolfspraulso now we need a bit of luck, and nothing that slips into rc222:30
wolfspraulthere are fairly major bugs, that completely break video-in, have a big negative impact on midi, infrared, etc. etc.22:30
wpwrakwhen will be the big smt day ?22:31
wolfspraulfor rc2?22:31
wolfspraulyou don't trust our wiki :-)22:31
wolfspraullet's see what it says...22:31
wolfspraulwe are trying to perfect the 'open process, you know? :-)22:31
wolfspraulso this is what we are doing right now: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/SIE_run_2_schedule22:32
kristianpaulxiangfu: http://paste.debian.net/8402122:32
kristianpaulmorning :)22:32
xiangfukristianpaul: I can download it.22:32
kristianpaulfor xiangfu :)22:32
kristianpaulhmm22:32
kristianpaulwhy not me :/22:32
kristianpauli got 404 here22:33
xiangfukristianpaul: wget http://wejp.k.vu/files/gmu-0.7.1.tar.gz22:33
xiangfukristianpaul: the network is not stable. I think. so the openwrt will try other URL.22:33
xiangfukristianpaul: since there are no gmu on other URL the openwrt will give error.22:33
wolfspraulwpwrak: and here is the corresponding one for Milkymist One RC2: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_run_2_schedule22:34
kristianpaulTextmode: yaah there is bug i had to reduce my 1.6Gb jlime part to 500Mb in order to boot22:34
wolfspraulwpwrak: that's a perfect plan! all dates are empty :-)22:34
kristianpaulxiangfu: so, how i can tell openwty make scripts and relatd stuff to do iir right?22:34
wolfspraulwpwrak: the goal is to have 20 rc2 for 27c3, which means they must be produced in october22:35
wpwrakah, wikies .. they have all the data and you never know where :)22:35
kristianpaul:p22:35
wolfspraulso we still have to apply the errata22:35
xiangfukristianpaul: the OpenWrt will try the "wejp.k.vu" first.  then it will try others. so I would advice download it manually.22:35
wolfspraulto schematics & layout22:35
wpwrakwhee ! next week.22:35
wolfspraulnext week what? the SIE run?22:36
wolfspraulwe are talking about Milkymist One now22:36
wolfspraulthat is after SIE22:36
wolfspraulSIE is that board similar to a NanoNote, but with Spartan-3 added22:36
wolfspraulXBurst 4725 (same die as 4740) + Spartan-322:37
wpwrak(mm run2) heh, that's how i like my schedules ;-)) (thanks for the links !)22:37
wolfspraulyes I know22:37
wolfspraulknew you would like that22:37
wolfspraulso first step for m1 rc2 is apply the rc1 errata22:37
wolfspraulreview it22:38
wpwraknext week sie. should also be a fun moment, no ?22:38
wolfspraulreally make sure we don't overlook anything22:38
wolfspraulyes sure, fun everywhere :-)22:38
wolfspraulafter that, I hope the process will be smooth since it's essentially the same process as for milkymist one rc122:38
wolfspraulwe have already sourced the hardest to get component, the spartan-622:38
wolfspraul50 in stock :-)22:39
kristianpaul:O22:39
wpwrakwhat makes the spartan so hard to get ?22:39
wolfspraulhmm22:39
kristianpaulspartan7 ?22:39
kristianpauli guess22:39
wolfspraulno no22:39
wolfspraulwpwrak: I don't have any really strong/hard answers.22:39
kristianpaulokay22:39
wpwrakmaybe just an unusual member of the family then22:40
wolfspraulI tried to build a contact with Xilinx in San Jose, but they were super arrogant and essentially just kicked me out.22:40
wpwrakwow22:40
wolfspraulwell it's a big company now22:40
wolfspraulwho are we? nothing. and then we are even into this copyleft thing, and all they are about is to build more proprietary IP.22:40
wpwrakstill. small shops like yours should be important for them.22:41
wolfspraulso I can only speculate22:41
wolfspraulthe spartan-6 is a 45nm process22:41
wpwrakah, so quite new then22:41
wolfspraulthat's quite advanced, very few fabs can do it, and there are big struggles over whose problems get fixed first, etc. you can imagine.22:41
wolfspraulessentially they compete with Apple in Samsung's attention...22:41
wpwraklovely ;-)22:41
kristianpaulApple? ohh22:41
kristianpaulHow Apple uses FPGAs?22:42
wolfspraulon the other hand I hear that virtex-6 is easily available22:42
wolfspraulI really dont' know.22:42
wolfspraulbut I do know that many customers are pissed about the spartan-6 delays and switching to Altera and others.22:42
kristianpaulbut virtex is expensive, no?22:42
wolfspraulAltera has instructed their sales people to go after spartan-6 defectants. they have special powerpoint presentations and packages to make switching easy.22:43
wolfspraulkristianpaul: yes virtex is very expensive. Like I said, I really don't know where the spartan-6 delays are coming from, why, etc.22:43
Action: kristianpaul used Altera in the university Labs22:43
wolfspraulbottom line: spartan-6 had many delays, and I chose to stock 50 of what we need instead.22:43
kristianpaulit was good, jsut lacking linux support for free22:44
wolfspraulon the other hand I am sure Xilinx will fix the spartan-6 issues, I cannot imagine they abandon it.22:44
Action: roh got a dso which is basically a altera develboard with 2 chips and display + keys22:44
rohah.. and a bag of adc22:44
wolfspraulspartan-7 is something totally different, sure they work on it, and it's announced. But that's a 28nm process, don't expect to get that chip in volume for at least 2 years.22:44
kristianpaulroh: i bought a ds1 but sell it when siwched to linux based systems22:45
kristianpaulnow i have my cheap xilinx avnet kit :)22:45
wolfspraulkristianpaul: I don't know whether apple is using fpgas anywhere, that was not my point. Apple and Xilinx both use Samsung's fab. Everybody's resources are limited, even Samsung's.22:45
rohkristianpaul too bad that there is no foss toolchain for that thing22:45
wolfspraulso Xilinx is competing with Apple in Samsung's attention, whatever problem Xilinx has that requires Samsung's help.22:46
rohnot even a closed one i could use without win3222:46
wpwrakkristianpaul: if i understood wolfgang right, apple may not use fpgas but the same process. so the fab line either makes <whatever> for apple or spartan6 for xilinx22:46
kristianpaulokay wolfspraul, i got the point22:46
wolfspraulwpwrak: yes correct.22:46
kristianpaulyes22:46
wolfspraulso it may be that there is just a resource bottleneck somewhere, and s-6 fell through the cracks :-)22:46
wolfspraulwpwrak: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-August/003699.html22:48
wpwrakso, don't use any process that apple uses too :)22:48
wolfspraulsome info Adam sent when he sourced the 50 s-6 we have in stock now22:48
wolfspraulwpwrak: well, the fabs become more and more important if you want to make a competitive IC22:48
wolfspraulxilinx wants a 28nm process for the virtex/spartan-7 series, so they start to co-work with a fab on this today...22:49
kristianpaulwpwrak: good point :)22:49
wolfspraulafter all xilinx doesn't want to sell design files, they want to sell chips :-)22:49
wolfspraulplus I am guessing what caused the s-6 delays, total gossip22:50
wpwrakah yes, mo start in july. no surprise :)22:50
wolfspraulwell they say this same story for about a year now22:50
wolfspraulit's always 'soon'22:50
wolfspraulbut I don't care anymore, I have 50 in stock now and done22:50
wolfspraulthat should help for the m1 rc2 run, and maybe also for the first xue run22:51
wpwrakthat close to mp start it can really be anything. they're probably still debugging yield issues ;-)22:51
wolfspraulthey also had power issues22:51
wolfspraulso they kept saying that the -es version (engineering samples) are not suitable for power measurements22:51
wpwrak;-)))22:51
wolfspraulthe milkymist one rc1 is using -es I think22:51
wolfspraulbut now we have mp types, for rc222:52
wpwrakgood. should be interesting to see how much the beast draws. not sure what the typical asic vs. fpga factor would be.22:53
wpwraktwo beautiful wpan-atrf boards just left my laminator. time for the kitchen, set up some acid ...22:55
wolfspraulwow :-)22:56
kristianpaulpics !22:56
kristianpaulindeed22:56
wolfspraulwpwrak: just for some story, it was so painful about this s-6 in recent months22:56
wolfspraulcrazy22:56
wolfsprauleverybody was hunting them, worldwide22:56
wolfspraulit was a real adventure to get the 6 we needed for rc122:57
wolfspraulin the end adam had contacted so many places, he got mails from unknown people saying "hey, you are looking for s-6, I can offer you TWO!" :-)22:57
kristianpaulamazing i never tought that until read your chat22:57
wolfspraulXilinx really didn't manage this thing well, I can understand that many customers jumped to greener pastures.22:57
wolfspraulif you are a business and want to sell products, you don't want to send your employees on hunting trips to fish out chips one by one...22:58
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File%3ASie_v2_bare_PCB_top.jpg :O23:00
wpwrakwolfspraul: how many "METOO" mails did he get from other searchers ? :)23:01
wpwrakkristianpaul: (pics) for now it's just copper with a bit of toner on it23:02
wolfspraulit's hard to manage access to any limited resource I guess23:02
wolfspraulat Samsung the system was easy, at least the initial idea. Say a new IC is being made, and it has to generate 200 million USD revenue to be profitable for Samsung.23:03
wolfspraul(that's a typical number)23:03
wpwrakwolfspraul: if they're that limited, the intelligent thing would be to not start open sales yet ...23:03
wolfspraulwell it's -es23:03
wolfspraulso if in early runs of that IC, let's say a total of 200 chips will be available to outsiders, that means every chip must correlate with 1 million USD in future revenue23:03
kristianpaulwpwrak: i meant document the whole process is not bad :)23:04
wpwrakor make a lottery and given them away for free. whatever ;-)23:04
wolfspraulit the chip is 20 USD, that's 50k chips23:04
wolfspraulso if you want 2 samples, they need to see that those 2 samples will generate 100k in chip sales to you later23:04
wpwrakalright. lotter, but not free then :)23:04
wolfspraulI think it's a fairly easy to understand system.23:04
wolfspraulI think what caused so many problems in the s-6 case was that the MP start was delayed so much. so the demands for chips increased, runs got bigger, but there were only very limited -es supplies.23:05
wolfspraulbottom line - mismanaged, many customers pissed23:06
wolfspraulour advantage is that we got into this late, our first run was only 6, and in general the whole way we move forward is much slower than a commercial maker of whatever product, who has to release & ship stuff under huge time pressure23:06
wolfspraulso maybe in the end the timing is actually perfect for us, and by now many customers switched away so we should have plenty of supply :-)23:07
wolfspraulif we are lucky s-6 prices will drop fast because of this whole introduction disaster23:07
rohthe whole thing sounds like one big gamble23:10
rohwho needs casinos23:10
kristianpaullol23:10
nebajothcasinos are cheaper23:12
nebajothactually23:12
wpwrakroh: better than the stock exchange. and you don't have to wear a tie :)23:26
kristianpaulgn823:29
roh*g*23:36
Textmodekristianpaul: huh?23:42
wpwrakkristianpaul: here's a picture: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/wpan/first-pcb.jpg23:42
kristianpaul:D23:43
kristianpaulTextmode: hey23:43
Action: Textmode huggles kristianpaul 23:43
nebajothwpwrak: sexy23:43
nebajothwireless personal area network23:44
nebajothwpan?23:44
rafawpwrak: the pcb is almost perfect..23:44
kristianpaulTextmode: you have problems booting jlime with 2GB sd?23:44
rafawpwrak: would it be useful for wireless network?23:44
rafaor similar?23:44
kristianpaulit seems !23:45
Textmodekristianpaul: no. *using*23:45
wpwraknext step: mr. dremel has a meeting with the board. may neighbours probably prefer this to be in the morning, not at night :)23:45
rafakristianpaul: Textmode : is there any problem with jlime?23:45
nebajothwhat exactly does that pcb do?23:45
wpwrakrafa: almost, bah !23:45
kristianpaulrafa: not me23:46
rafawpwrak: wow!.. I can not believe!23:46
rafa:)..23:46
Textmoderafa: I wanttted to test if the video player that came with jlime could play some old gameplay vids I had, its at this point that I realised I couldn't find anything of the SD card anywhere. I'm pretty sure it isn't mounting.23:46
wpwrakrafa: this board should to ieee 802.15.4 networking. this one wouldn't fit into a ben, though. it will connect to usb, via a c8051f326, the same chip as in idbg.23:46
rafawpwrak: which kind of wireless network?.. I mean, could we use that for typical wireless network=23:47
rafaTextmode: wait.. you want to play videos right?23:47
wpwrakrafa: this chip then talks spi to the rf transceiver. when done, you could cut the board between the two v-shapes, and connect it to spi in the ben.23:47
wpwrakrafa: well, in theory. it wouldn't make sense to do this, because it wouldn't fit anywhere. better to shrink it a bit more first.23:48
Textmoderafa: thats sorta beyond the current issue, which is that, even from the commandline, I can't find the contents of the SD card.23:48
rafawpwrak: okey, but if it would fit...23:48
rafaTextmode: please, let me understand the whole problem. Do you have installed jlime?23:48
rafaTextmode: on nand? on sd?23:49
wpwrakrafa: not typical wlan. it's not 802.11a/b/g/n but 802.15.4. same frequency band, but many other things are different.23:49
Textmodeyes, jlime, on nand23:49
wpwraknebajoth: (wpan) yes23:49
rafaTextmode: and you can not mount it seems right?23:49
kristianpaulah nand23:49
Textmoderafa: seems to be the case.23:49
rafawpwrak: okey,..23:49
kristianpauli dint resist that one23:49
rafaTextmode: which kind of sd filesystem you have?23:49
kristianpauli meant no swap :( i moved to sd again23:50
rafaext2? fat?23:50
wpwrakrafa: naybe you;ve heard of ZigBee. it's the same technology. a bit similar to bluetooth, actually23:50
rafayes, we used zigbee in my last job23:50
wpwrakah, perfect. how did it work ?23:50
Textmoderafa: gnome sayz "msdos", so probably vfat.23:50
rafawpwrak: but I do not know if that is typical/common to attach wireless hardware network. I mean, if I can have ip for example23:51
wpwrakthere is 6LoWPAN, a way to transport IPv6 over IEEE 802.15.4. but 802.15.4 isn't common for IP (yet ?)23:51
rafaTextmode: okey.. and you have tried: mkdir /tmp/d ; mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /tmp/d/23:51
rafa?23:51
wpwrakbut then, since you'd bring your own beer err... peer anyway, you can choose whatever you want :)23:52
wpwrakthe main question is now how far this thing can go23:52
rafawpwrak: it was in wireless keyboard for the bus driver.. and the whole code was in zigbee + pic32 controling that hardware23:52
rafawpwrak: that worked well23:53
rafaTextmode: you there?23:53
rafaTextmode: I want to sleep, but better if we can fix your problem first.. so I will go to sleep happy ;)23:53
wpwrakso, transmission over a few meters, in a vehicle23:53
Textmoderafa: No such device or address23:53
rafayes.. 2mts or less I think23:53
rafaTextmode: okey.. let me check my ben23:54
rafawpwrak:  yes.. 2mts or less I think23:54
Textmoderafa: wait...23:54
Textmodeyeah, that worked.23:55
rafaTextmode: strange.. my jlime on nand can do :  mkdir /tmp/d ; mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /tmp/d/23:55
rafawithout adds, or changes23:55
Textmode<Textmode> rafa: wait... <Textmode> yeah, that worked.23:55
rafaTextmode: okey, then you go23:56
rafato cd /tmp/d23:56
rafaand you see your files?23:56
nebajoth"The basic framework conceives a 10-meter communications area with a transfer rate of 250 kbit/s."23:56
nebajoth-- wikipedia23:56
Textmodeokay, so the card is mounted now, but why doesn't automount work?23:56
rafaTextmode: I am not sure that we added automount23:56
Textmodeand I'm pretty sure I tried that with /mnt/card as the target, why didn't that work?23:56
Action: kristianpaul zzzZ23:57
rafaTextmode: and I am not sure that your test are not working23:57
rafaTextmode: that I am sure is that fat works and you can mount your sd with jlime23:57
rafaTextmode: several things.. use the video icon to run the video player, no command line23:57
rafaor if you want to use command line then learn how the script runs mplayer23:58
rafaTextmode: also: the best thing to see videos is to convert them with ffmpeg like it is explained at :23:58
rafahttp://jlime.com/wiki/index.php/Jlime_Muffinman#VIDEO_PLAYER23:58
rafanow I can go to sleep happy :D23:58
Action: Textmode huggles rafa 23:59
Textmoderest well23:59
rafayeah.. i will ;)23:59
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