#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2010-08-11

kyak3 out of 3 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file src/filedialog.cpp.rej01:06
kyakpatching file src/gmenu2x.cpp01:06
kyakok, i was unlucky to pull some intermediate commit01:08
bartbeslarsc: what do you mean?04:20
bartbeswhat is libthread part of?04:41
wpwrakrafa: you still have to reply to ron's comment on the wikireader :)04:52
tuxbrain2wpwrak: don't make rafa loose his precious time, it still have to do a theora player :P05:40
wpwraktuxbrain2: naw, he has to do a bit more advertizing of his work. you know, "do good things and brag about it" ;-)05:46
tuxbrain2wpwrak: in that case I agree, go for it rafa straight to his neck!06:02
bartbesthis is annoying..06:39
bartbeshow am I supposed to fix a problem with a lib?06:40
Action: bartbes updates feeds06:40
bartbescool, new gmenu2x version06:43
tuxbrain2bartbes: new version? any info ?06:54
bartbesmy fixes for the explorer06:54
bartbesand a new wallpaper06:54
bartbesnew controls06:54
bartbeswallpaper alone is definately worth it06:55
bartbes;)06:55
bartbesoh and the free card space indicator works now06:55
bartbesoh and I guess the constant screen updates stopped06:56
bartbestuxbrain2: so yeah, just go ahead and build it06:57
bartbesbtw, does anybody know a solution for this?06:57
bartbes/home/bart/nanonote/openwrt-xburst/staging_dir/target-mipsel_uClibc-0.9.30.1/usr/lib/liblua.so: undefined reference to `crypt'06:57
bartbesit seems to mean I need to link against libcrypt06:58
bartbesbut I don't have it06:58
bartbesnot in my toolchain, not on the nn itself06:59
bartbesidea, let's go look at the lua package06:59
kyakbartbes: feeds/packages/libs/libgcrypt isn't this what you need?07:03
bartbesdoes libgcrypt include libcrypt?07:04
bartbesah07:10
bartbesit's in a lua patch!07:10
zedstarif anyone is looking for a case for their ben i just found one that fits it well07:14
larscbartbes: libcrypt is part of the libc07:15
bartbeslarsc: you said that before, but does that mean it has no .so file?07:16
larscbartbes: no, it has a .so file07:17
bartbesbut.. I don't have it07:17
bartbesI'm pretty sure I built libc though07:17
bartbeshmm07:17
larscls staging_dir/toolchain-mipsel_gcc-4.3.3+cs_uClibc-0.9.30.1/usr/lib/libcrypt.so07:18
bartbesoh07:20
bartbesit appeared..07:20
bartbeswow07:20
larscmagic ;)07:21
bartbesthx07:21
bartbesfor making me see the light07:21
kyaklarsc: hi, do you have plans to upgrade the kernel version in openwrt-xburst?07:29
larsckyak: i don't have. but mirko has.07:31
kyakok, so i'll ask him :)07:32
kyakmirko: hi, do you have plans to upgrade the kernel version in openwrt-xburst?07:32
bartbeslarsc: I think I finally got it to build!07:35
bartbesI did, and most of all, it runs without segfaults!07:37
bartbeswolfspraul: more progress, love.timer runs on the nn as well (big thanks to Textmode and larsc there)07:40
bartbesfinally, the frustration is over07:40
wpwrakbartbes: what does love.timer do, i.e., is it predictive, advisory, or observative in nature ?07:42
bartbesit provides timing functions for love ;)07:44
larsc:)07:44
bartbeshttp://love2d.org/wiki/love.timer07:44
bartbesnot too impressive07:45
bartbesbut that makes module 207:45
bartbesnext is love.event07:45
bartbesand then I'll need to write some new code07:45
wpwrakah ... love.joystick. now i get it :)07:46
bartbesand love.event love.mouse and love.keyboard are cross-compiled and working08:03
bartbes(I know love.mouse is useless and love.keyboard is useless without a window, but they are dependencies of love.event)08:03
Action: bartbes dusts off joystick08:05
kyaklove.joystick - sound sexy08:06
wpwrakkyak: bartbes is trying to position the ben in the huge but largely untapped marked of female buyers08:09
bartbesexactly08:09
bartbesjust wait for love.vibrate08:09
kyakwe need a pink case then08:09
kyak..and then "Ben" sounds very differently08:10
bartbesrename: Ken08:10
wpwrakmakes sense. echo  bartbes | tr -d ts | sed s/e/ie/08:12
bartbeshehe08:12
Action: bartbes compiles love.joystick08:13
bartbesI doubt it'll work08:13
bartbesehm08:13
bartbesI mean, be useful08:13
bartbesbut that's an entirely different matter08:13
kyakbartbes: are there any good "love" games that you play?08:15
bartbeshttp://sourceforge.net/projects/gunfudeadlands/08:16
bartbeshttp://www.moddb.com/games/10-second-war08:16
bartbesand of-course a self-plug: http://github.com/bartbes/VolleyBrawl08:16
bartbesbut there are more than those 3 games08:16
bartbes(of course)08:16
bartbesoh08:16
bartbesa recent 'hit'08:17
bartbesNot Tetris08:17
bartbesyou may have heard from it08:17
bartbeswell, love.joystick runs as well08:18
kyakcool, hope it will run smooth08:23
valhallado you have any informations about a performance comparison between lua + love and python + pygame on the nanonote?08:24
bartbesI wouldn't know a comparison on a normal computer08:24
bartbesbut in general lua is very fast08:24
bartbesand love is 'so fast' that in general people don't even worry about optimization (too much)08:25
kyaki'd love to have some breakout game on Ben08:25
valhalladoes it use SDL?08:25
valhallaon normal computers performance isn't a big issue, but I've had bad experiences with pygame on computers with 128MB ram08:26
valhallaa lighter alternative is interesting08:26
wpwrakthe 10 second war sounds nice. a bit like "rematch". http://www.sparkynet.com/spag/r.html#rematch08:26
bartbesvalhalla: there are people running love on netbooks all the time08:27
valhallabartbes: pygame works on netbooks as well: they are not so underpowered08:28
bartbestrue...08:28
bartbesbut real old stuff too08:28
bartbesah, I wouldn't know really08:28
kyakbartbes: do you know already what is the first "love" game that could be run on Ben?08:29
bartbesnot sure08:29
bartbeswhat I'm working towards as first runnable 'unported' love game08:29
bartbes(I'll scale the images though)08:29
bartbesis this love classic08:29
kyakso you first plan is to port love more or less?08:30
bartbeshttp://vimeo.com/136711708:30
bartbesnot completely08:30
bartbesbut a very reasonable subset08:30
kyakare there "Zero dependency" games?08:30
bartbesas in?08:30
kyakdoes love have some "core"?08:30
kyakthat some games can already be run with?08:31
bartbesthe core itself is merely some GC, some general objects and lua bindings08:31
bartbesso I doubt that works08:31
bartbesit is highly modularized though08:31
bartbesas I said I've been porting modules over08:31
bartbesand I just started on a tiny bit of love.graphics08:32
bartbesonly the window creating08:32
bartbesso I can test input08:32
kyakok, i see08:32
bartbesnice, I can create windows now08:43
bartbesnow let's cross-compile that08:43
kyaklove.windows :)08:43
bartbeswhat was the nn screen size again?08:46
mirkokyak: not really, i don't see any good reasons, as afaik (larsc may link in here) 2.6.32 is running stable (at least not more unstable than 2.6.35)08:46
mirkokyak: however when you want to have a newer kernel version (I'd like to know the reasons btw :)) - in openwrt-trunk 2.6.35 is the current one08:47
bartbeslook at that, it creates windows on the nn as well08:48
kyakmirko: cool! no, i'm really satisfied with how 2.6.32 is running, i just wanted to give it a try to 2.6.35 :) so i'll try openwrt-trunk08:50
mirkokyak: you may wanna try: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/mirko/testing/08:51
mirkokyak: mind, it's the openwrt-config - usb0-IP is 192.168.1.108:51
mirkoand it's _testing_ ;)08:51
kyakok, thanks :)08:52
Action: bartbes stitches together 2 screenshots08:54
tuxbrain2mirko: may marketing reasons enough to be in the edge of kernel versions? as good marketing guy I'm abstracting from any thecnical reason :P, it's just than we "marketed" the nanonote as be "upstream" and such, "the kernel not just work must live.." bla, bla, bla etc... so if .35 works at least as well than .32 why not make that change?08:59
bartbeshttp://i.imgur.com/P6xHP.png09:04
bartbesehm, the right screen is the ben09:09
bartbesyou can't read it because it's written in white09:10
bartbes(the background is actually transparent)09:10
wolfspraulhe, I love that screenshot09:19
wolfspraulfeels like I'm with a doc who wants to test whether I'm insane09:19
bartbeswhy?09:25
bartbesbtw, I got an event loop running, so I can now accept keyboard input09:25
bartbesmeaning that all ported modules should work fine now09:25
bartbesactually, I think I'm going to make a small demo that moves the mouse based on keyboard input09:27
wolfspraulbartbes: because I cannot see anything, like you said, but you keep looking at that black space whether you can see anything (screenshot?)09:27
wolfspraulit's fun :-)09:27
wolfspraulI like it09:27
bartbeswell, it's mostly to demonstrate I moved the mouse pointer09:28
Action: bartbes is moving around the pointer with the arrow keys09:43
bartbesI call that success ;)09:43
tuxbrain2congrat bartbes!!09:44
bartbeshmm09:44
bartbesthis means I'm going to have to write some new backends..09:44
bartbesah well09:44
bartbestoday has been productive enough09:45
bartbesI'll do the rest later :P09:45
tuxbrain2we I said we have to add some love to distros you had taked this words literally :)09:45
tuxbrain2ben now has love to offer :) good motto09:46
kristianpaulwolfspraul: is okay g00gle index our irc logs?09:56
wolfspraulkristianpaul: why not? is it bad for some reason?10:12
wolfspraula few months ago when we started irclogs zear brought up the issue of the ip addresses being logged as part of the join/part messages10:12
wolfspraulwe have fixed that now, only public messages and actions are logged. also I cleaned all the old logs, so at least on our servers that data is gone and will not be collected anymore.10:13
wolfspraulactually I am just in the process of replacing Google Analytics with Piwik :-)10:13
kristianpaulwolfspraul: not sure if bad10:13
kristianpauljust is g00gle :p10:13
wolfspraulthe piwik data is collected and controlled on the qi server, which means we can purge it after x days, same as the apache logs etc.10:13
kristianpaulgreat about piwik move :)10:14
wolfspraulyes10:14
wolfspraulworking on it today actually10:14
wolfspraulit starts to work :-)10:14
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Template:Piwik_stats10:14
wolfspraulwe still use google for some mail accounts, and jabber too. can fix that later :-)10:15
Action: kristianpaul use 2% of google10:23
wejpactually, i don't like the fact that this irc channel is being logged10:29
tuxbrain2come on, this is a public channel and is a lot of valuable information discussed here than any other way will be lost forever... I don't understand this reticence really.10:35
wejpno10:36
wejpit is like recording every conversation you have and publish it so everyone (not only the participants) can read it10:36
wejpthis way, everyone will be able to read it, forever.10:37
tuxbrain2but this is not a private conversation, is like a continuous debate arround concret topic, and yes the debates usually are recorded and keep forever :P10:38
wpwraktuxbrain2: wejp has a point. conversation on irc tends to be more like a verbal conversation, where some privacy is implicitly assumed. with mail, you tend to be more careful about what you write. however, irc logs can indeed be valuable sources of information. so there are conflicting interests, both valid.10:38
wejpno, you are wrong. this is a conversation between a limited number of people, which is being made available to the whole world afterwards10:39
wejpwpwrak, yeah, you are right here.10:39
wejpthe thing is, i don't want to think each time i write something, if i really want that to be saved for the whole world10:40
wejpit is way different from writing something on a wiki or a forum where you explicitly publish it with this intention10:40
wolfspraulif there were 2 public qi-hardware channels, a logged one and an unlogged one, what would happen?10:40
wejpi for one would surely prefer the non-logged one10:41
wolfspraulwejp: I would agree with you but with IRC the concept of 'public' is already clear by default, unless you have an explicitly private channel10:41
wejpbut i doubt it is a good idea to have two channels10:41
wolfspraulin other words - if you don't log a channel, you may actually create a false perception of privacy10:41
wolfspraulbecause you have totally no control over the nicks in this channel, and you don't know what they do with the data10:42
wejpwolfspraul, even with irc it is not public in that every conversation is available to everyone, but to the participants at the given time10:42
wejpyou can even see who is in the channel10:42
wolfspraulso you might even argue that publicly logging a public IRC channel is the right thing to do from an enlightenment angle10:42
wolfspraulwejp: yes but you:10:42
wolfspraul1) don't know who they are10:42
wejpwell yes, you don't know what they do with the data, but you don't know that for almost everything, even private emails could be published10:42
wolfspraul2) don't know when they come or go10:42
wolfspraul3) don't know what they do with the data10:42
wolfspraulok, but we are talking about irc and #qi-hardware now10:43
wejpyes, but that is not a good argument for logging the channel10:43
wpwrakwolfspraul: i think most people don't really think about the issue. it's also quite uncertain what negative consequences could (in practice) arise from this10:43
wolfspraulI think we should say that #qi-hardware is logged in the title of the channel10:43
wejpthe is the very least that should be done10:43
wpwrakwolfspraul: so providing a choice may not really help10:43
wolfspraulwell, I just speak for myself10:44
wolfspraulwhen I write something in a public IRC channel, I already apply any normal 'public' self-censoring to my language10:44
wolfspraulit doesn't change if I know it's also logged on an HTML page or not10:44
wpwrakonly the paranoid survive ;-)10:44
wolfspraulI write differently in private conversations.10:45
wolfspraulright werner?10:45
wolfspraul:-)10:45
wolfspraulnow, if some IRC channel would not be logged, I still wouldn't change that10:45
wolfspraulin fact just on irc, there are many people that are logged in from a server, logging everything, etc.10:45
wejpstill it is a big difference if people log for themselves or if the logs are published to the internet10:46
wejpsearchable by everyone, even years later10:46
wolfspraulyes but you don't know who is logging and for what reason10:46
freespacemaybe it should be in the topic, so ppl can act accordingly10:46
wolfspraulisn't that even worse?10:46
wolfsprauloh sure, totally agree. must be in the topic.10:46
wejpno, and that'S a really bad argument for logging10:46
wolfspraulwhy?10:47
wolfspraulI think it's a very good argument.10:47
wolfspraulthis _is_ a public channel10:47
wolfspraulnicks are totally self-chosen10:47
wolfspraulit's public10:47
wejpbecause you never know what people do, but that doesn't mean you should do those things your selve (or even worse things) just because somebody could do that too10:47
wpwrakwolfspraul: people often want to be identified by their conversation partners10:48
wejpas i said, a public channel is still only readable by those who have joined the channel by default10:48
wejpwpwrak, exactly10:48
wejpof course i could choose a random nick, but that would be pretty useless10:48
wpwrakwolfspraul: of course, you could log in as "a785fb6bf33af6ffdb459c8fd0c3f915a74a1fa33d03de3d2a314b8dc2fe99b0" and then /msg to everyone you know who you are :)10:49
wolfspraulyes but we are debating the pros and cons of html logging this channel now10:49
wolfspraulthe pros are clear, I try to understand the cons better10:49
freespacedo ppl actually use the online logs to gain knowledge?10:49
wpwrakwolfspraul: but then, you may still be tracked by your writing style or the information you post. if someone wants to find out who you are, there's probably little difference to just using plain nicks.10:50
wolfsprauldefinitely10:50
freespacei understand that is the intention, would like to know if it is borne out in practice10:50
wejpthe pros are clear? actually i don't see many reasons for logging at all10:50
wolfspraulfreespace: for example I don't stay logged in all the time (ha ha, I don't use a server to log channels :-)), so I check the html logs to read back on old stuff, and already caught many interesting things10:50
freespacefair enough :)10:50
wolfspraulthe search also works quite nice, since in IRC discussions tend to happen over time sometimes, and the search will pull the lines neatly together10:51
wpwrakwolfspraul: i don't think a solution exists that would make everyone happy. you could anonymize the logs, but that would either make the conversations incredibly hard to read, or you'd have the same problem with traceable "random" nicks.10:51
freespaceor we can just behave like we do on the mailing list?10:51
wolfspraulwpwrak: we are moving in that direction already, by not logging join/part messages anymore, not logging nickname changes, and also removing all this stuff from the archives10:51
wpwrakwolfspraul: plus, it would make searching the logs harder, in case the author or recipient is part of the search input10:51
wolfspraulok tomorrow I try to find out how to update the topic of this channel10:53
wolfspraulthe logging should be announced there, first step10:53
wolfspraulI would be interested in an experiment of two #qi-hardware channels, a logged and unlogged one10:53
wolfspraulwould be interesting :-)10:53
wpwraksounds good to me. no risk, no fun :)10:53
freespacewhois the bot?10:54
freespacemaybe add an !invisible10:54
freespaceto stop logging that person10:54
wolfspraulon this channel here? qi-bot10:54
freespaceyou can even do it after the fact with some parsing10:54
wpwrakah yes, "don't log me". why not. or just log "foo said something"10:54
kristianpaulgood idea10:54
wejpyeah, good idea10:54
kristianpaulyou read that g00gle!! :p10:55
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_setup#eggdrop10:55
wolfspraulfreespace: wejp can type some command so qi-bot will not log him anymore?10:55
wolfspraulI didn't even know that is possible :-)10:55
freespacewell it is possible, i don't know if eggdrop does it by default :P10:55
wolfspraulthat's cool then, we should also advertise that more10:55
freespaceno, i mean it is possible10:56
freespacei don't know if eggdrop implements it10:56
wolfspraulwell I happily remove anybody's stuff from the server, of course10:56
wpwrakyou could still be tracked by context in many cases, e.g., when you announce you just sent wikileaks the launch codes for the us and russian icbms, but at least there would be no direct quotes10:56
freespacewe might have to hack eggdrop to add the command10:56
wpwraka manual alternative would be a killfile that just removes, say, /^wejp:/10:57
freespaceor, grep "!invisible" log | awk <appropriateness here> | sort | uniq > invisible.users; then loop over that using a sed -i10:57
wolfspraulit's best to make the opt-out as easy as possible10:57
wolfspraulnah, don't even record it10:57
wolfspraulI am fighting all the logging everywhere10:58
wolfspraulso many logs, kept forever, crazy10:58
wpwrakeasy = -(work_for_user*N+work_for_admin) ;-)10:58
wolfspraulok one by one - first the topic10:59
wpwraknot recording in the first place also helps against subpoena attacks10:59
wolfspraulI for one would not feel one bit differently whether the channel is HTML logged or not, because I don't know who the others are and what they do with the data. but that's just my personal feeling of course.11:00
wolfspraulin fact I think _all_ irc protocol traffic is recorded indefinitely by a variety of parties already11:00
wolfspraulbut that's another story...11:00
nebajoththere's absolutely nothing preventing any user from converting his own lurky-lurky irc logs into html11:00
nebajothwho's freaked out by it?11:01
wolfspraulsure not11:01
wolfsprauland joining the channel under whatever nick is the #1 normal way to get here :-)11:01
wolfspraulit has been the culture of IRC since day 111:01
wolfspraulprivate and invite-only channels are the special case11:01
nebajothhello11:02
nebajoth(also)11:02
wpwrakmy conversation style is more loose on irc. more banter, more off-topic, some possibly offensive topics/language. also every once in a while, i catch myself having written something that i'd consider too sensitive for mails to a list.11:02
nebajothits definitely less formal11:02
freespacedoesn't look like there is any kind of existing support for opting users out of logging...11:02
wolfspraulsure, because it's irc - just chatting :-)11:02
freespaceperhaps wpwrak can implement this... :P11:02
nebajothI think that's taken into account by people reviewing irc logs11:02
wolfspraulouch don't suggest it to him11:03
wolfspraulI will still juggle the scripting monsters in 20 years.11:03
nebajothMUST HAZ SECRET TREEHOUS11:03
wpwrakfreespace: i may offer it a place in my todo list with a one-year forecast ;-)11:03
freespaceheh :)11:03
bartbessomeone said you can always see who is in the channel, but isn't that the case for qi-bot as well? :>)11:04
bartbesehm11:04
bartbes>:)11:04
bartbespersonally, I don't care, I'm crazy all over the nets ;)11:04
nebajothpersonality segmentation11:04
wolfspraulif we would have an easy way to remove wejp from html logging I would have added the nick already :-)11:04
nebajoththat's the ticket11:05
bartbesthere is a simple way11:05
bartbes /kick wejp11:05
bartbes;)11:05
nebajothhaha11:05
nebajothyou could do it with sed11:05
nebajothsed script after the fact11:05
nebajothput it on a cron11:05
nebajothI just don't understand why in the context of a radically open project11:05
bartbesI guess you sanitize it just before uploading11:05
nebajothwhy you would ever consider it seriously11:05
bartbes*could11:06
zedstardont get naked on chatroulette is my tip of the day11:07
bartbeshehe11:07
wolfspraulI think privacy issues are very important for this project, the motivation of a lot of people that support copyleft anything, copyleft hardware.11:09
wejpthose are two different things, an open project and logging conversations. i really like how extensively almost every aspect of the nanonote and the other projects is being documented on the wiki. but on irc there's also offtopic discussions (which is normal and just fine)11:09
bartbesno, no, no11:09
wolfspraulno backdoors, no phoning home, no logging/tracking everywhere, privacy in general11:09
wejpwolfspraul, yes and thank you for taking this seriously11:09
bartbeswe have *open* off-topic discussions ;)11:09
bartbes(yes, I realize I haven't really contributed something to this conversation)11:10
wolfspraulwejp: oh totally, thank you for bringing it forward. it was the same with zear months ago, when I just proceed with the first style of logging, still with IP addresses and all. until we finally improved that.11:10
wolfspraulwe can improve more, I'm sure!11:10
wejp:)11:10
wolfspraulI just spent the day replacing google analytics with the same software running on the qi server, so we can delete everything after a little while.11:11
kristianpaulgo sleep :)11:12
wejpthat's cool11:12
wolfspraulyes was about time. it was easy and fun too actually. Piwik works nicely.11:13
wolfspraulkristianpaul: yeah I'm out now... n811:14
wejpyeah, i have checked out piwik a while ago, looks really nice11:16
wejpthe only thing i don't like about it is its use of flash for the charts11:16
wejpcould also be done with javascript only11:17
wolfspraulyes saw that too, but at least they already use flash a lot less than google analytics11:19
wolfspraulbtw, if anybody sees value in that, we can exclude the irclogs in robots.txt. that's easy.11:21
wolfspraulI don't think a google search will ever directly lead to a daily irclog anyway, will it? don't know...11:21
wejpexcluding it from google's bots through robots.txt would be a start, i guess11:22
wolfspraulif nobody objects I'll just do that11:24
wolfspraulhe - I'll read in the irclogs tomorrow morning whether someone objected - how about that :-)11:25
wolfsprauln8 now...11:25
wpwrakwolfspraul in absentia: if you exclude google, how are _we_ supposed to find anythgin there ? ;-))11:35
lekernelhttp://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/08/milkymist_interactive_vj_station.html11:41
kyakactually, what can be done is a !vote eggdrop script that will stay here for couple of weeks to make sure everyone has a chance to vote the simple question "to log or not to log"12:15
kyakthis would be fair12:15
nebajothI'm totally against excluding irc logs from google indexing12:31
nebajothunless you really want to set up our own index12:31
nebajothit throws the baby out with the bathwater12:31
nebajothirc isn't JUST for the off-topic conversations that wpwrak seems to worry about so much12:31
nebajothat least 80% of it is on-topic, relevant discussion12:31
nebajoththe entire point of logging is so that we can offer on-topic, relevant discussions indexed12:32
nebajothas an additional resource from our project12:32
nebajothwhy don't we just set up a parallel, unlogged channel?12:32
nebajothmany projects do exactly that12:33
nebajothone channel for support and development chat12:33
nebajothone channel for off-topic, off-colour conversation12:33
nebajothI don't see the challenge of keeping an awareness that you are being logged in the developer channel12:33
nebajothand not saying idiot things as a result12:33
nebajothbut I don't know what the big deal is anyway12:34
nebajothwhat "privacy" are we supposed to be maintaining in the context of this project?12:34
wejpit not about saying idiot things12:44
wejpi have no intention to do that12:44
wpwraknebajoth: oh, you may say that chips from, say, TI really suck, that you think their prices are pure robbery, and that you despise their business ethics in general. now, one year later, you apply for a job at TI. human resources do a google search and find you.12:44
wpwraknebajoth: or you may say something that's confidential and someone does go after you for this12:45
wejpyep, good example12:45
wpwraknebajoth: so there are potential risks. whether they really matter enough in practice is another story.12:45
kyakwpwrak: btw, do you really want such a bitch employer, who's judging you by what you (presumably) said somewhere?12:46
wpwraknebajoth: e.g., anyone you meet in the street could decide to ram a large kitchen knife into your chest, yet the risk of this is actually happening is low enough that most of us aren't afraid of actually leaving our fortress every now and then12:46
wpwrakkyak: it may be just HR that's a bitch. due diligence and such.12:47
kyakif one is a real expert and a good head, adequate employer won't care what you said and when12:47
kyakyeah, world is small and weird, everything can happen12:48
wejpkyak, this is so wrong. in a perfect world it would be like this, reality is way different from that12:48
wpwrakkyak: that's what i'd assume as well. that's why i don't consider this a real risk for myself. your choice of potential employers and your own risk assessment may vary, though.12:48
kyakanyway, i don't care either way12:52
nebajothI can't see it either12:57
nebajothits #qi-hardware, not #4chan12:57
nebajothand if you say nasty stuff about Texas Instruments, you shouldn't even be wanting to work there a year later12:58
wejphuh?12:59
kyakno, why not? what if i really want to make them better? :)12:59
nebajothI still don't understand what you think is going to happen13:00
nebajothits never a good idea to post private information, like personal address, for example, in a public channel13:01
nebajoththat should always be done in PMs13:01
nebajothso just don't do it13:01
nebajothat all13:01
nebajothand if you have beef with a supplier, free speech says you should be able to say anything you like about them13:01
nebajothand have the moral strength to stand by it later13:01
nebajoththere should be no information posted in this channel that compromises your privacy13:02
wejpyou might not understand that, but some people use a nickname so others know who they are. unfortunately that also implies everyone can make this connection.13:02
nebajothso?13:02
wejpso your argument with not posting personal information is nonsense13:02
nebajothwhat13:02
nebajothok13:02
nebajothwalk me through the worst case scenario again13:03
nebajoththere's something I'm not understanding, clearly13:03
wejpobviously13:03
nebajothyes13:03
nebajothobviously13:03
nebajothlets try again13:03
nebajothso you're chatting13:03
wejpwhy not take wpwrak's example with the employer?13:03
nebajothwith your buds13:03
nebajothok13:03
wejpwhich part didn't you understand there?13:03
nebajoththe part where you'd work for them, I think13:03
nebajothif you hated their products13:03
nebajothor why you'd say something so nasty about their products that they wouldn't hire you13:04
wpwraknebajoth: maybe you changed your mind. or you need the money badly.13:04
wejpwhat? even if i hated one of their products, it does not neccessarily mean that the company as a whole sucks or something13:04
zearso someone other than me also doesn't like the logging on this server? :)13:04
zear*channel13:04
wejpyeah, or you just change your mind13:04
wpwraknebajoth: hah, people never complain in exaggerated ways when they're unhappy about something ;-)))13:04
rafanebajoth: can not you tell wrong things?.. I mean.. I say.. linux sucks.. then .. one year later13:04
wejpthis actually happens13:05
rafanebajoth: I use linux13:05
nebajothyou should be able to walk into an interview with an engineer during the hiring process and defend everything you've said13:05
rafanebajoth: and I realized that it is good13:05
nebajothif you can't, you may not be smart enough for the job13:05
zearrafa, there are more serious things you can say here you might regret in 10 years13:05
rafanebajoth: but somebody will reject a business with me because13:05
rafaI said that13:05
zearreligious, political, financial, etc13:05
zearthat's why i only talk about nanonote here13:05
nebajothdon't say them in #qi-hardware?13:05
nebajothyes for sure13:05
wpwrakrafa: you say "linux sucks". five years later, there's rafa exclusion clause in the gpl 4 ;-)13:05
nebajoththat's my point13:05
wejpzear, true, the employer thign was just one example13:05
rafanebajoth: don't talk anywher13:06
rafae13:06
nebajothhaha13:06
nebajothwell, its OK in private channels with people you trust13:06
qi-bot[commit] Mirko Vogt: call generic qmake function and add necessary TARGET_LDFLAGS for recursive library lookup http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e04057613:06
wejpthere are lots of things which you might regret later being available to everyone, even though you did not mean to do or say anything bad or stupid at that time13:06
rafawpwrak: ;-))) yeah.. and I JUST DID!13:06
nebajotheven there you have to realize everything logs13:06
nebajothits just the way the internet works13:06
wpwrakrafa: and even using your real name ! you're so in trouble :)13:06
zearit still limits me because i can't be so openminded with you guys here13:07
rafacya13:07
zearbut it's ok13:07
nebajoththere's nothing stopping us from starting another channel13:07
nebajothone without logging13:07
nebajoththe problem here is the overlap between people who want to stay on-topic13:07
nebajothand people who apparently want to chat13:07
nebajoththere's no problem with either, but rather than tweaking the logging, we should be using the tools MADE for such division in topic-orientation13:07
wejpi don't want an aditional channel for off-topic things only13:08
nebajothie: split the channels13:08
zearthis is a serious business, even if 90% of people here are linux geeks13:08
nebajothyou just want private things to be redacted from a running log13:08
wejpalso oftne enough you are on-topic and then drift into an off-topic discussion13:08
zearso i guess we can't have nice offtopic discussions here13:08
nebajothwhy isn't the onus on you to stay on-topic?13:08
nebajothand if you drift off-topic, you should be running the privacy risks consciously13:08
kyakwe can keep logs, bue exclude them from google index or even make it private?13:09
nebajothI don't want to exclude from google index13:10
nebajothunless we have our own13:10
nebajotheven then13:10
wejpyou want everyone to think about every single word one says twice? that might work when writing on a forum, but a chat is meant for realtime conversation13:10
nebajothpeople should be able to search for information in our irc logs13:10
zearif anyone wants offtopic discussion without a risk of google caching it, feel free to join #dingoonity13:10
nebajothbecause its stuff that doesn't necessarily make it to the wiki or email list13:10
nebajothwejp: its all just streams of text, dude13:10
kyaknebajoth: how many people have searched our irc logs so far? who are those people?13:10
nebajothI constantly do for other projects, kyak13:10
nebajothespecially supybot13:10
kyaki think mainly there are few people from here, who wanted to see "what happened at night"13:11
wpwrakkyak: yes, where's the log !? ;-))13:11
nebajothand I look through our mailing list archives a lot13:11
zearso who's in favour and who's against the logging again? I'm confused :D13:11
nebajothI'm completely in favour of logging13:11
wejpi'm sure you are13:11
nebajothpublic access to logs13:11
wejpnobody knows who you are anyway13:11
nebajothnow you're just getting aggressive13:11
nebajothI can see why logging is a concern13:12
zeari would like if the nicks and references to nicks in the logs could be removed13:12
nebajothI dunno13:12
kyakjust make the logs nickless? could be a good idea13:12
zearthen we could cache the logs without a risk of assigning the messages to the nicks13:12
wejpmaybe that could be done13:12
nebajothI judge whether people know what they're talking about by nick13:12
wpwrakzear: i'm slightly in favour of logging. of course, i log everything locally anyway. a public log would make it easier to refer to things said on irc, without first having to ask for permission.13:12
wejpbut it is not a simple task13:12
zearwejp, but we need not only remove <wejp> or wejp as the first word of the message13:13
zearwe need to filter the whole message and remove any "wejp" reference13:13
kyakwejp: yeah, like this message i'm mentioning you in13:13
wejpexactly13:13
wpwrak /nick the13:13
zearbecause i can say something like "have you guys heard that wejp said this and that?"13:13
wpwrakor, better, /nick not13:13
zearand it will be logged13:13
wejpbut you cannot just remove it because then the context of parts of the conversation might get lost13:14
nebajoth:O13:14
wejpsou you would have to replace it with a random temporary nick13:14
zearwejp, the messages can be colored13:14
zearso the context of the discussion won't be lost13:14
nebajothI could live with that13:14
nebajothwell13:14
wejpbut colors would not help in some situations13:14
nebajoththen you lose data from previous days13:14
wpwrakreminds me of my old suggestion to sneak a  #define while if  into some system's/distro's headers13:15
zearbut as i say, it's enough someone puts your nick in the middle of the sentence, or mistype it and the filter won't remove it13:15
nebajothunless the nick was universally replaced throughout the logs13:15
zearand then it will be easy to assign your nick to your messages13:15
wejpif one references a certain person, because there are multiple conversations going on, this reference would get lost13:15
kyakwejp: another good idea, just rename yourself here to some random nick?13:15
nebajothhaha13:15
zearkyak, won't work13:15
zearbecause he uses this nick on other channels in ircnode13:15
zear*freenode13:15
kyakhe can open another client connection13:15
kyakthis is not a problem13:15
zearbut that's just a dirty workaround13:15
wejpkyak, this doesn't work for some reasons: first i would have to use a different irc client for this channel. while this would be possible, it would be to cumbersome so i would rather not join the channel at all13:16
nebajothI'm also in #serial-rapist and #hates-texas-instruments13:16
wejpalso people know me be the name and oftne enough ask me questions13:16
wejpwhen they don't know my random name this doesn't work13:16
kyakwejp: not necessarily. most irc client can connect to multiple servers under multiple nicks13:16
kyakthey'll know you by that random nick13:17
wejpok, but then i would have to connect twice to the same network and would not be able to use my bouncer for that13:17
kyakbut this is just technical issue, it is solvable13:17
wpwrakkyak: random nicks would also be a pain to tell apart13:17
wejpyeah, true13:18
wejpbut still the problem with people not recognizing me would remain13:18
kyakso you want to be recognized, but not logged :) what if you future employer is right here?13:19
kyakor sharing some other channel with you?13:19
wejpkyak, i guess i can take that risk. i see 39 people in here13:19
wejpbut there are several billion people on earth possibly be able to read the channel logs13:20
wejpquite a difference13:20
wejpalso i see an even bigger problem in being able to trace a single person over years through those logs13:21
zearwejp, not only people, BOTS!13:21
zearadvertisement bots13:21
wejpbots too13:21
nebajothO_O13:22
zearso in case someone is reading this log, looking for dirty stuff on me, get lost man!13:22
kyaki b13:22
zearoh, and if you're checking if i am a good worker - yeah man, hire me :D13:22
wpwrakzear: or think ex-wife on a revenge trip. these can be persistent.13:22
kyaki bet antone googling for "irc logs" in two days will find this nice discussion ;-)13:23
kyak*anyone13:23
nebajothrofl13:23
zearyeah, and let's say we had a discussion about some barely legal stuff, it would be easy for her to frame me later13:23
wpwrakkyak: we we're all doomed ;-)13:23
wejpkyak, of course13:23
wpwrakzear: (barely legal) it will be claimed that she wasn't ;-)13:24
wejplol13:24
zeareven a sane discussion about c and p could easily ruin someone's life13:24
wejpsee, we're all off-topic now ;)13:25
zearyea13:25
nebajothI live my life off-topic13:25
wejpwe should move over to #dingoonity :P13:25
zearhehe13:25
zearas long as i'm in charge there, there will be no public logs :P13:25
wejp:D13:25
nebajothtaking my ball13:26
nebajothand goinnnn home13:26
zearhmm.. and how about giving the access to logs only for registered members?13:26
nebajothagainst13:26
zearthat way we could prevent google from caching it, yet still making it easy for everyone interested to access it13:26
nebajothoh13:26
nebajothhmmm13:26
nebajothif it was easy to register13:27
zearand allow to log with openid13:27
nebajothI'd be in favor13:27
zearyeah, with openid it should be easy13:27
wejphm13:27
nebajothwe'd need to index it ourselves likely13:27
nebajothwhich is doable13:27
nebajothwith xapian or something13:27
wejpyes, that should be possible13:27
nebajothI would agree to that13:27
nebajothI just want a resource13:28
nebajothavailable to people with a low barrier of entry13:28
nebajothif it was easy to get into, it would be a decent compromise, imo13:28
wejpstill i think really important stuff should be put onto the wiki13:28
nebajothoh for sure13:28
zearhmm.. google can read doc and pdf formats, so i guess publishing the logs in that formats wouldn't prevent it from caching it13:28
nebajothand forum posts13:28
wejpit is really cumbersome to search logs for useful information anyway13:28
nebajothbut for the same reason its easy to drift off-topic, its also easy to let valuable tidbits of information13:28
nebajothanswers to user questions posed in-channel13:29
nebajothsort of13:29
nebajothget lost13:29
nebajothits cumbersome, but its saved my bacon a few times13:29
nebajothwhen my questions weren't answered in mailing lists, forums, or wikis13:29
wpwrak(restricted access) now, how often do you want to get just some bit of information from the web ? how do you feel if google tells you it's on a forum, and that forum requires you to register to read first ?13:30
nebajothtrue too13:31
nebajothangry usually :P13:31
zearwpwrak, how often forums offer you openid login?13:32
zearnever, henve your frustration13:32
wpwrakheh, one more obstacle :)13:32
zearhere you could easily access the logs with your openid account13:32
wpwrakwhich percentage of the internet population even knows what openid is ? :)13:32
zear99% of people interested in the nanonote13:32
zeari'd risk 100%, but then someone from this channel would say he does not have openid ;)13:33
nebajothand tons of people have them by accident13:33
nebajothlike any livejournal user13:34
zearhmm.. wait, wait.. but can't we just add that stuff to robots.txt so google won't cache it? :D13:34
nebajoththat's what started this off13:34
zearah13:34
wejpyes, that's what wolfgang already suggested13:34
nebajothI want caching13:34
nebajothunless we have our own index13:34
zearand still anyone could upload his logs from this channel on the net13:34
zearbut yeah, the public log already does it and we have to limit it from showing private bits of logs13:35
wejpzear, yes, but how likely is it that someone uploads all logs from this channel?13:35
zearwejp, someone who idles a screen session? :D13:35
wejp;)13:36
nebajothimma only upload the stuff zear and wejp say13:37
nebajothJK JK13:37
zear:D13:38
wejplol13:38
zearanyway, have to go, cya guys13:39
wejpme too, cya13:39
viricToday I built scummvm for the BEn13:49
viricBut at start it says it can't open the mouse13:49
viricAny clue on what to do to get a keyboard interface for it?13:50
viriczedstar: I don't use openid :)13:50
viriczedstar: but I know (only a bit) what it is about13:50
rafaviric: do you see any graphic screen or you just get the stdout error?14:00
viricstdout error14:01
rafaviric: http://jlime.com/wiki/index.php/Jlime_Muffinman#SDL_on_Framebuffer14:01
rafatry before to run scummvm with:14:01
rafaexport SDL_NOMOUSE=114:01
viricah let me try14:01
viricsure14:02
viric1min14:02
viricnow it says: SDL_SetVideoMode says we can't switch to that mode (No video mode larger enough for 640x400)14:03
rafalet me think, I used scummvm14:05
viricI can't find how to make it work14:07
rafaviric: I can give you a tip14:10
rafaviric: I do not remember exactly how i did.. but the tip should work, and perhaps I did the same when I tested/used it14:11
viricgo on :)14:11
rafaviric: install scummvm in your linux PC. I have the debian version. Runit.. you will see the 640x480 screen.14:11
rafaGo options14:11
rafaThen go -> Graphics mode14:12
rafathen set "normal no scaling"14:12
rafathen quit14:12
rafaand run scummvm again to check that it is in 320x24014:12
rafaAfter, check the config files on your pc14:12
rafaperhaps you just need, after that, to copy the file on your pc : ~/.scummvmrc to your $HOME in your nn14:13
rafaI just ran on pc and set that graphic mode. In .scummvmrc I have now "gfx_mode=1x"14:14
rafawhich will tell scummvm to run in 320x24014:15
viricahh14:15
rafais it clear?14:15
viricI'm installing scummvm14:15
rafaokey14:15
rafa;)14:15
viricsimply it's the first thing I had at hand to build for SDL for the nanonote14:15
rafano problem.. if you want try now I can past the .scummvmrc I got14:16
viricMaybe I should do some more effort to get prboom :)14:16
viricbut let's try this.14:16
rafais not prboom on repositories?14:16
viricI don't know14:16
viricI'm not using the opkg or apt-get package managers14:16
rafaah.. okey14:17
viricscummvm -g 1x   works fine enough14:17
rafaah.. cool!14:17
viricbut  Ican't move the mouse cursor! :)14:18
rafadid you have to SDL_NOMOUSE=114:18
rafa?14:18
viricright14:18
rafaperhaps scummvm has shortcuts? I do not know14:18
rafaanyway.. all the games need mouse ;)14:18
virichow did you play it without mouse?14:18
virichaha14:18
viricI expected to move the mouse cursor with the cursor keys14:18
rafaI used scummvm on Freerunner14:19
rafa(openmoko)14:19
rafa320x24014:19
viricand there is mouse?14:19
rafathere I have touchscreen14:19
rafaso, yes, I can play games14:19
viricclear :)14:20
rafabtw, prboom is a killer application for nn ;)14:21
rafadont try it14:21
viricahh14:23
viricgood to know!14:23
rafayou will be playing prboom for the next four weeks non stop14:23
viricAny game you recommend?14:23
viricAhhhh ok14:23
viricthen it will work :)14:23
rafa:)14:23
rafayeah.. how it works!14:23
rafa:)14:23
viricwhere are you from, btw?14:25
viricyou have a name like from Spain14:25
rafaArgentina.. we were Spain in year 1800 surely :P14:26
viricLucky you! I'm Catalan.14:27
viricyou have very good comic writers in Argentina :)14:29
viricI like a lot "Yo, Matías" and "Liniers"14:30
viricwell, Macanudo.14:30
rafaah.. yes, Liniers is a cool guy14:31
rafaCaloi is another cool comic writer as well14:31
viricah, I don't know it. Let me look for it14:32
viricfew lands have good comic writers, I think.14:32
viric(or I know too few of them :)14:32
nebajothamerica has great comic writers14:33
rafawell, I am not an expert either14:33
nebajothexhibit A: xkcd14:33
viricnebajoth: yes, good one.14:33
viricAmerica includes Argentina btw :)14:33
viricnebajoth: dilbert, cyanide&happiness...14:34
wpwrakrafa: hah, ron's statement still stands unchallenged !14:37
rafawpwrak: perhaps we just need to show the wikireader demo video14:38
rafaso he knows that there was an effort at least14:38
rafa:)14:38
wpwrakyou should post the url, yes14:40
rafahehe.. let me try..14:42
viricargh, I can't build prboom14:42
viricinclude/sys/types.h:67:17: error: two or more data types in declaration specifiers14:43
viricis there a public repository of jlime so I can copy the patches from? :)14:44
rafapatches? which patches?14:46
viricHm I thought prboom had some tricks to be cross-built for the nanonote14:46
rafaviric: we use OpenEmbedded. You can download14:46
rafapackages if these are useful for you.. And their dependences14:47
viricit's in their web?14:47
viricwhere is the nanonote specific part? There in openembedded?14:47
rafaThe OpenEmbedded building system knows how to build every package.14:47
rafaNo, you use openembedded to build the whole repository, no matter which arch is the final one14:48
viricok14:48
rafaso all the OE repositories built should be the same14:48
viricnice14:48
rafawith the same packages inside.14:48
viricI looked at the prboom recipe14:49
viricit does not build for me; what version of gcc/libc to crossbuild?14:49
rafaIf you want, from http://jlime.com/wiki/index.php/Jlime_Muffinman.. you can get packages already built if those are useful for you.. There are around 18000 packages I guess.14:49
viricwow, big number14:50
rafaand prboom is inside :)14:50
viricI imagined :)14:50
rafaviric: the OE builds its own toolchain to crosscompile when you build the whole repo.14:51
viricwhat versions does that toolchain use?14:51
rafait depends on the current OE version, it changes from time to time.. OE guys try to use the latest versions of tools14:52
viricah ok14:52
viricnice14:52
rafaIf you want to know the toolchain that it built to build jlime repo you can download the toolchain from..14:52
rafalet me check..14:52
rafahttp://jlime.com/downloads/development/crosscompilers/jlime-mipsel-toolchain.tar.gz14:53
rafathat was just useful for OE.. but we use that one when we want to build some application manually.14:53
viricah nice14:55
viricI bypassed the prboom problem though! It was 'configuring' not detecting things fine. Built!14:55
viric'configure'14:55
viricit needed ac_cv_type_uid_t=yes ac_cv_type_gid_t=yes14:56
rafagreat!15:00
viricI've to find one of those precious WADs in my hard disks...15:01
rafahaha.. soou are going to be absent for several days... :)15:02
viric:)15:03
nebajothI haz the WADs stashed away safely15:21
nebajothfor rainy days15:21
viricgaa I don't manage to set the resolution to 320x24015:29
rafaviric: prboom  -width 320 -height 24015:32
viricgaaa it wokrs15:33
wpwrakrafa: do you have a picture of my ben with idbg installed but witout cables ?15:39
rafawpwrak: he, http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/idbg-for-jlime-meeting/installation1.jpg15:40
rafawpwrak: I have the original size as well15:41
Guest66777i read that there now is a debian running on the ben15:44
Guest66777that's nice to hear15:44
viricIs there any way I can know the 'battery percent left'?15:48
viricor a way to forecast when it will shut down?15:48
viricok - New User Guide :)15:59
wpwrakrafa: hmm, great picture. but TP5 is cut off. do you have one with it as well ?16:01
rafawpwrak: yes16:30
rafawpwrak: let me upload16:30
rafawpwrak: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/idbg-for-jlime-meeting/installation1_1.jpg16:32
rafawpwrak: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/idbg-for-jlime-meeting/installation1_2.jpg16:32
wpwrakrafa: perfect. thanks a lot !16:48
wpwrakrafa: is this already the full resolution ?16:50
rafawpwrak: no.. the original is big16:55
rafado you want that one?16:55
wpwrakyes, please :)17:06
rafawpwrak: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/idbg-for-jlime-meeting/IMG_3590.JPG17:15
rafawpwrak: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/idbg-for-jlime-meeting/IMG_3591.JPG17:15
wpwrakrafa: excellent. thanks a lot !17:17
bartbeswejp: case in favor of the irc logs, I looked up the screenshot I posted here earlier today18:21
bartbes(just saying)18:21
Textmodewhats jLime like?20:24
rafaTextmode: what do you mean?20:29
Textmoderafa: just looking for opinions20:30
rafaah.. then mine does not count :)20:30
urandom_Textmode it is very nice, has matchbox and mplayer and all20:31
Action: Textmode huggles rafa 20:31
Textmodeumm...I should probably let it finish downloading before I try and install it :P20:36
rafaTextmode: sd version works a bit better than nand.. but just for few things.. For example, if you want to install some package via opkg, with really many many dependences it would like to use swap. If you install on sd (and follow the instructions) it will have swap and the Linux will be happier20:39
Textmodemeh, should have said that earlier.20:40
TextmodeI've already installed the first two files, just waiting on jlime-muffinman-image20:40
rafano problem.. you can use it well anyway20:41
urandom_i gues it could also have swap on NAND in theorie, could it?20:42
tuxbrain2Textmode: actually just booting on jlime, the user experience is really great, and also due it have demo content to test (images, video, text, also contains a help file to indicate how to control them) fine details , openwrt should copy20:42
Textmodewell, i'll see soon enough :P20:42
rafaurandom_: yes, and we are thinking to add swap on nand for the next beta.. because we upload these often I think that nand version will have a tiny file swap at least soon.20:43
tuxbrain2yes a how to create and activate a swap file20:43
tuxbrain2will be cool ;)20:43
Textmodedoesn't NAND have finite write cycles?20:43
tuxbrain2same as SD20:44
Textmodetrue, but its easier to throw away an SD and put in a new one :P20:44
tuxbrain2is matter on how time we are talking about :)20:44
rafaTextmode: we could create a random file on every boot for nand. Create and make a 8MB of swap would take just few seconds.. 5 perhaps.20:44
rafaand we would not write on the same place on every boot. And swap is not always used20:45
Textmodehmm, if you say so.20:45
kristianpaulrafa: wpwrak nice pics and hack btw :)20:45
tuxbrain2how->how much20:45
Textmodedownload faster, dammit...20:45
urandom_it could also detect if sd card is inserted and if so use the sd card for swap20:47
rafaurandom_: it actually does that I think :)20:47
kristianpaulwpwrak: did you solder that at home?20:48
kristianpaulhow was the reflow?20:48
tuxbrain2wolfspraul: kernel and rootfs from jlime flashing from SD not working, kernel unable to open ubifs partition,20:49
tuxbrain2same files but flashing through uboot jlime booting and running.....?20:49
rafatuxbrain2: the current terminal sucks a bit. But we will add (or at least we are thinking/testing.. ) this rxvt with 5x7 xorg font: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/calcurse-5x7-font.jpg20:49
rafatuxbrain2: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/rxvt-5x7-font.jpg20:49
wolfspraultuxbrain2: don't understand you. What is your question?20:50
rafawolfspraul: he tried to install on nand via sd, but he got a system which was not able to mount rootfs. Then he installed via usbboot the same files on nand, and that boots well.20:52
tuxbrain2well sorry is not a question , it was the result of my test and the question mark is the state of my mind,20:52
tuxbrain2rafa:pretty neat font :)20:53
wpwrakkristianpaul: oh, that's just manual soldering, with the iron. didn't need to fire up the reflow oven :)20:53
kristianpaulwpwrak: hey good, :)20:54
wpwrakrafa: btw, i forgot something: i didn't write-protect the boo loader. so in theory, broken firmware could brick the idbg.20:55
wpwrakbooT even20:55
rafawpwrak: you mean if somobody reflash again the idbg using a broken firmware?20:56
wpwrakrafa: you need a broken firmware that happens to try to overwrite the boot loader, yes20:56
wpwrakrafa: pretty unlikely to happen, though. well, we can fix it quickly when you come over the next time.20:57
Textmodeidbg?20:59
wpwrakTextmode: yes, the boot loader in idbg21:01
Textmodewhat is the idbg? :P21:01
kristianpaulis the awesome thing for the nn ever made ;)21:02
kristianpaulbecause is tiny !!21:02
kristianpaulrelly21:02
kristianpaulrelly*21:02
Textmode...okay?21:02
wpwrakTextmode: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/idbg-v2-install.jpg21:02
kristianpaulTextmode: tiny and programable :=)21:03
kristianpaulwhat else you need :)21:03
wpwrakTextmode: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-August/004919.html21:03
wpwrakkristianpaul: i'll hire you as my public relations agent ;-)21:04
kristianpaul:p21:04
wpwrakreorganizing all the code to support different hardware types was a bit of a pain. that's why it took so long for the new version. i had the circuit working already weeks ago.21:06
kristianpaulwhere is TP25 btw, i cant find it :/21:06
kristianpaulTP75**21:06
wpwrakwhat is it ?21:07
TextmodeI can't seem to enter numbers into the jlime terminal...21:07
kristianpaulwpwrak> GPB17 (NC), GPB18 (TP23), GPB30 (TP25), GPB27 (NC), GPB28 (NC)21:07
wpwrakah, TXD. under the battery sticker21:07
kristianpaulahh21:07
wpwrakTP25 .. lemme see ...21:08
kristianpaulTP7521:08
kristianpaulno no 2521:08
kristianpaulmy fault21:08
tuxbrain2Textmode: I confirm I can't either21:08
kristianpaul10:30 < wpwrak> U1A: PD25/TX (TP75),21:08
wpwrakalso under the battery sticker. in a box, labeled "COB TEST"21:08
kristianpaulahh dam21:08
kristianpaulbut is TX21:08
kristianpauli tought was IO21:09
wpwrakit's the "useless" TX, so you can use it for IO21:09
kristianpaulwell i dind clarify yday when ask abput free pins21:09
kristianpauloh really?21:09
kristianpaulsure i will notget issues with keyboard or soemthing?21:10
wpwrakyup. the UART has two pairs of tx/rx lines. one has tx available but rx connected to the keyboard. not good for a console.21:10
kristianpauli think is is usefull when uboot boots with S key pressed21:10
Textmodetuxbrain2: :/21:10
wpwrakthe other uses tdi/tdo from jtag. much nicer. the drawback is that the test points are far away from the speaker. (see21:11
wpwrakhttp://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/idbg-v2-install.jpg21:11
rafatuxbrain2: Textmode : numbers on terminal: shift + red arrow + number. We do not know how to use fn key on X yet. But after number appeared on screen (and if you are using the terminal) you need to press once red arrow (it looks like it enables something.. and you need to press again to disable). Really weird and hard to fix. That is why we will use rxvt soon.21:11
Textmodehmm.21:12
wpwrakrafa: sounds like a rather creative way for entering numbers :)21:12
Textmodealso, what the hell is the volume key in gmu? the nn volume buttons do nothing :P21:12
Textmoderafa: I like to call it "redshift"21:13
rafawpwrak: no idea how to config fn key :P.. I have asked if somebody has ideas with xmodmap.. but 0 answers so far.21:13
wpwrakredshift must die :) well, in the ya. i hope.21:13
wpwrakrafa: just adapt the kernel :)21:14
rafaTextmode: I like to call this mode (shift+red arrow+number) "shit"21:14
rafa:)21:14
kristianpaulnice touch suign Makefiles for PCB's :)21:15
Textmodenah, I meant I called the red arrow key "redshift", I propose "redshit" as the name for that combination. :P21:15
wpwrakkristianpaul: "make pcb" ;-)21:15
Textmodeagain, how the hell do adjust the volume in gmu?21:16
wpwrakTextmode: change speaker-ear distance ? :)21:17
rafaso far, to avoid a bit the "shit mode" this is the TODO for beta 3 : add calcurse, add rxvt, add 5x7 font (xorg misc fonts), remove current terminal, enjoy that21:17
Textmodewpwrak: not so great with earphones.21:18
wpwrakTextmode: you could put some long screws into them to act as headphone-head spacers, and adjust the volume by turning them.21:19
Textmode...21:19
wpwrakTextmode: useful if you ever want to infiltrate a mad scientist convention without getting noticed21:20
Textmodethe nanonote is vibrating from the volume...21:23
wpwraksubwoofer ?21:25
Textmodeno, just really f-ing loud.21:26
kristianpaulrafa: how i do enable transparency in rxvt?21:26
TextmodeI'm serious though, this is almost unusable if I can't adjust the volume.21:30
Textmodemy only real option is to see if I can find my dummyplug to at least mute it, but thats hardly a solution.21:30
urandom_you really cant adjust volume? i can in gmu using the volume keys but i mostly use openwrt for gmu cause it boots faster so not sure21:36
Textmodeurandom_: I really can't, the volume buttons do nothing in GMU.21:36
urandom_maybe you have the red arrow activated?21:37
Textmodein the movie player it seems to be the same as left/right (rewind, and fastforward)21:37
Textmodeyeah, i tried the redshift too.21:38
tuxbrain2Textmode: sure it can be fixed, at least you can remap volume keys in the gmu config file21:41
Textmodehmm...21:42
tuxbrain2A good thing should be unifi common control (volume, ff, rewind, pause, etc) with same keys along media players or at least gmu and mplayer :)21:43
tuxbrain2unifi->unify21:43
tuxbrain2time to sleep21:43
tuxbrain2c u21:43
urandom_sleeping, good idea21:44
kristianpaulhttps://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Y_Window_System21:52
rafaTextmode: perhaps gmu volume has some issue with X. For X vol keys is page up/down.21:54
rafayou can install alsa mixer as well21:54
rafabut it should work. Let me check, if there is some problem I will add that task for the beta3. And I am doing that version during these days.21:55
rafakristianpaul: No sure if rxvt has tranparency. Do you know if it has?21:56
rafaTextmode: mplayer volume works and also othere functions, but it takes a few seconds to react, no idea why mplayer takes that time21:57
kristianpaulrafa: it said in the manual22:01
kristianpauli just cant figurout with is not using it22:01
kristianpauleven gnome-terminal do know after edit teh.Xdefault but rxvt not :/22:02
kristianpauls/know/now22:02
rafakristianpaul: perhaps it needs some help from X, no idea really22:03
kristianpaulok22:03
wpwrakkristianpaul: so, will you build an idbg for yourself ?22:11
TextmodeI still don't know wha an idbg is...22:20
wpwrakTextmode: it's a usb to serial converter with a few extras. for the ben's serial console. what distinguishes it from other solutions is that you have a proper usb receptacle on the ben.22:22
wpwrakTextmode: the extras are that you can remotely hardware-reset the ben and also control usb boot (the one implemented by the cpu's rom)22:23
Textmodeinteresting.22:25
kristianpaulwpwrak: maybe22:37
kristianpaulnot seems to hard22:37
kristianpaulat least i have the solder iron and the laser printer :)22:37
kristianpaulso..22:38
kristianpauli need to qoute the mcu and read about programing it, later..22:58
kristianpaulgn8 for now22:58
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