#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2010-08-09

qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Meandered inverted F PCB antenna from TI's AN043. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/e754b0500:18
wolfspraulxiangfu: do you get mails to the mailing list twice?04:41
xiangfuwolfspraul: no04:42
bartbesxiangfu: I wondered why I got highlighted, but of course it was just an old commit message ;P06:05
xiangfubartbes: I miss up the merge. but already fixed. :)06:34
alcyfolks, anyone aware of the batch of nanonote available from ida systems ? http://idasystems.net/nanonote07:05
alcyI think it appeared here last year, so firmware would be pretty old right ? anything in particaular I need to be ware of ?07:06
bartbeswell, the firmware you can upgrade07:09
alcybartbes , yup just had a talk with them. hope i can flash it successfully :)07:10
bartbesthere are 3 methods07:10
bartbesso I guess you should be able to07:10
alcybartbes, went through a blog post today. http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/2010/08/pure-fun-but-not-for-faint-hearted.html hence, a little apprehensive :P07:11
bartbesalcy: well, I quickly went through it all07:15
bartbesbut tbh, my experience is a lot more positive...07:15
alcybartbes, hope mine is too. and now that Debian's been ported, gives me all the more reason to get it :)07:16
wolfspraulalcy: the IDA devices probably still have the original 20100113 image, unless Rakshat reflashed them :-)07:23
alcywolfspraul: had a talk with their representative, its the original one only.07:23
wolfspraulcool, if you can buy one we need more fans and users in India...07:24
alcywolfspraul, I would have bought when it came here itself, but at the time I was busy with the beagleboard. also, the nanonote wiki wasn't particularly encouraging back then , really ! but recently I chanced upon the wiki just to see how things were going and was quite happy to see the changes ! :)07:26
wolfspraulhe, fair enough07:26
wolfspraulI think we went 5% of the way now :-)07:27
wolfspraulbut some good stuff happening, for example the quite successful kernel.org upstreaming process07:27
wolfspraulWerner's case and RF hacking07:27
wolfspraulGPS hacking07:27
wolfspraulMilkymist and Xue07:27
wolfsprauletc. etc.07:27
alcywifi , debian :)07:27
wolfspraulalso really good contributions now into openwrt, jlime, etc.07:28
wolfspraulyes sure07:28
wolfspraulgentoo also I think07:28
wolfspraulbut I still want a 100% free smartphone, and that's a long long way...07:28
wolfspraulanyway, IDA Systems in Jaipur is really great07:28
alcywolfspraul: totally agree. I am not sure of their sales, it can;t be that great...but hose guys are staying dedicated to this07:29
wolfspraulit's not just the technology, it's also the people and companies you support07:29
wolfspraulof course not great :-)07:29
wolfspraullet's see where Ben software is in 6 months...07:30
wolfspraul(I hope you buy before that, still :-))07:30
wolfspraulyou did something with the beagleboard - how did it go?07:30
wolfspraulI stay away from TI stuff as much as possible...07:31
alcyheh, tomorrow I'll order most likely :)07:31
alcywell, beagleboard was fascinating. learned a thing or two about embedded systems etc. but never quite got around hacking it good. hope to change things with nanonote.07:32
alcyI mean beagleboard was my entry into this domain. so yeah its quite exciting - all of this07:34
SiENcEi wanna ask, if someone tried keymouse with nanonote?07:39
SiENcEsome time ago i compiled one for dingux...07:39
SiENcEand it works good07:39
kyakthere is an article on wiki about this07:43
wolfspraulalcy: it's such a big field - which area are you interested in?07:53
wolfspraulelectrical/software/mechanical? rf/ic design? kernel/gui/distros?07:53
alcywolfspraul, not really view it like that, but if I had to I'd say software/kernel/distros. mainly for fun :) just for the sake of having a nice gadget07:55
wolfspraulah yeah I just randomly listed a few things07:57
bartbesbtw, is there anyone here who has linked c++ against lua?07:57
bartbeswell.. I guess not..08:02
qi-bot[commit] Mirko Vogt: gmenu2x: update to a recent version http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/45fc37208:08
bartbesI found out how to do it08:10
bartbesand I got love.filesystem to run on the nanonote08:16
bartbesbut more importantly, that means I got the love core running on the nanonote08:17
bartbesnow all I need to do is replace the modules that need to be replaced and it should work08:17
Action: bartbes cheers08:17
bartbesTextmode: you are obliged to cheer as well08:19
viricwhat is that 'love' you talk about?08:21
wolfspraulbartbes: congrats!!!08:22
bartbeswolfspraul: well, to put it in perspective, I only have the 'common' module (aka the runtime) and filesystem running08:23
bartbesbut at least it means I fixed the lua error08:23
wolfsprauldoesn't matter. you are happy, that's good08:24
viricwhat games do you play in the nanonote?08:25
Action: Textmode huggles bartbes 08:28
bartbesviric: well, nothing yet08:29
bartbeshello Textmode08:29
Textmodebartbes: are those changes pushed to the main repo?08:30
bartbesTextmode: no08:30
viricah ok08:30
bartbesTextmode: because they are kind of incompatible/useless in a pc build08:32
bartbesso I'm not sure how I will add it08:32
bartbeseither patches or defines, but that might get messy08:33
Textmodewhat are the nature of the changes?08:34
bartbescurrently? just a few defines08:37
qi-bot[commit] jow: [backfire] merge r21492, r21556 and r21762 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cb8ef0408:38
qi-bot[commit] juhosg: backfire: swconfig: release switch in error path of swconfig_get_attr (backport of r21799) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/87adaa508:38
qi-bot[commit] juhosg: backfire: swconfig: fix lock imbalance in unregister_switch() (backport of r21780) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/072e16008:38
qi-bot[commit] nbd: [backfire] backport the ssb dma device change from trunk http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f210f1f08:38
qi-bot[commit] nbd: [backfire] backport mac80211 updates from trunk http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e775c4308:38
qi-bot[commit] jow: [backfire] merge r21820 and r21821 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b82975608:38
qi-bot[commit] jow: [backfire] merge r21823 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ba9021508:38
qi-bot[commit] jow: [backfire] merge r21833 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/413e54e08:38
qi-bot[commit] juhosg: backfire: [kernel] swconfig: Check vlan/port indexes for validity. (backport of r20811) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/445022b08:38
qi-bot[commit] juhosg: b08:38
Textmodebartbes: yeah, but what do that actually fix?08:38
larscmirko killed the commit bot, again...08:39
Action: Textmode huggles wolfspraul 08:43
wolfsprauland I _just_ turned off logging a few hours ago08:43
wolfspraulbecause I thought the commitlog was stable...08:43
wolfspraulI turn it back on :-)08:44
Textmodeso it'll be stable now? :P08:44
mirkoTextmode: no, but it wil be logged ;)08:49
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: pasive footprint added http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/675d06a08:49
qi-bot[commit] Carlos Camargo: Adding bniaries for testing SIE http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/33fba8a08:50
Action: Textmode pokes bartbes 08:56
qi-bot[commit] Carlos Camargo: Adding sgen to test programs under binaries directory http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/a3fbdf808:57
qi-bot[commit] Carlos Camargo: Adding a script for install basic test software http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/885efd809:01
qi-bot[commit] Carlos Camargo: Adding Flash scripts http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/f91a91009:07
qi-bot[commit] Carlos Camargo: Adding usbtool configuration file http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/933fa4c09:10
mirkolarsc: i'd like to merge over some features of openwrt-trunk, as uclibc-nptl support09:30
mirkolarsc: what do you think of doing so with kernel 2.6.35 support as well?09:30
larscwell, why not?09:36
mirkohmm, subtree merges seem to be not supported nativly with keeping the history :/09:39
viriclarsc: could you try the mmc card detection ?09:40
viric(just curious)09:40
larscviric: i don't have my nanonote here right now.09:40
viricah ok09:41
larscbut i tested it before i commited the card detect fix and it worked then09:41
viricI thought yesterday you wanted to try to reproduce my problem09:42
viricDo you know of someone other than me that can try that?09:42
larsceverybody who has a nanonote ;)09:43
larscviric: i'll will test it when i have access to my nanonote09:43
larscwhich might be later today or tomorrow09:43
viricI mean someone ready to put that kernel there :)09:43
viricok, no problem. I was only curious.09:43
larscto me it looks as if your detect switch is stuck somehow. otherwise the gpio pin wouldn't be high if the card is removed09:45
viriclarsc: but in 2.6.34 it notices, I think.10:08
viricsimply it does not understand the card.10:08
viricbut it reacts when I put the card in10:08
bartbesis anyone aware of this: make[3]: *** No rule to make target `kernlb.fi', needed by `gforth'.  Stop11:31
rafawpwrak: how are the two idbgs made for the artist? (if that happened)12:41
viricIs anyone here reading PDFs in the ben?13:05
viricwhat program do you use for that?13:05
alcyviric, yup read about it today itself13:06
virichm ok13:07
viricI wonder if it is any comfortable at all13:07
viricAnd what browser do you use in it? For html rendering13:07
viricyou = anyone in the channel13:07
alcy"Another indispensable program is "Nupdf". It does quite a decent job of rendering PDF files on the tiny machine. Just don't press [enter] because that gets you in a menu that is very volatile. If that happens, leave it as soon as you can before the thing hangs."  from the blog I read today http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/13:09
wpwrakrafa: naw, i'm making them myself :) still now quite done, though. but i think they'll be fine.13:47
kristianpaulviric: mupsd14:26
kristianpauli dint tried nupdf14:27
kristianpaulis openwrt buildable?14:27
kristianpaulmupdf is in jlime wich deservers a try :)14:28
rafakristianpaul: nupdf uses mupdf.. so I guess that mupdf is nicer (for tiny machines) yet than nupdf :)14:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Reuse some symbols and footprints from IDBG and gta02-core. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/4aa4f4414:51
rafawpwrak: well, thanks a lot for that, and sorry for me being lazy these days.. many visitors.. I hope to do a good installation tomorrow, so I deserve your effort making the 2 idbgs ;)14:57
kristianpaulwpwrak: hey15:51
kristianpaulwpwrak: are you selling  idbgs?15:52
kristianpaulthats the tiny board = mcu intednded for the freerunner isnt?15:52
wpwrakkristianpaul: nope, not selling. i don't have real production resources.15:53
wpwrakkristianpaul: it's the board for the freerunner, yes. now i've adapted it for the ben as well.15:53
kristianpaulwpwrak: ahh :)15:54
kristianpaulmay be can used on miljymist too btw15:55
kristianpaulmilkymist one*15:55
wpwrakkristianpaul: i guess you have to talk wolfgang into producing it in real quantities :)15:55
wpwrakkristianpaul: (mm) hmm, maybe. not sure what that one needs. idbg's jtag isn't too good (and the ben version doesn't have jtag at all, since you can already unbrick via usb)15:56
kristianpaulhmm true15:57
kristianpaulwpwrak: just asking who faster is that usb chip for the idbg?15:58
kristianpaullike for doing SPI to USB?15:58
kristianpaulmay be bitbanginf gpio?15:58
wpwrakkristianpaul: the ftdi is pretty fast. the c8051f326 might be able to achieve something like 3 MHz SPI speed, but not more. there are of course better chips in that family. the c8051f326 is very bottom-end.16:03
kristianpaulhwo expsive for you is got that stuff in argentina , you live thre right?16:05
kristianpaulstuff = c8051f32616:05
wpwrakkristianpaul: well, i order my components from digi-key. then ther's shipping, which is relatively inexpensive. only USD 40. and then argentine customs fees and taxes, about 25-30% in total.16:08
wpwrakoff for some shopping for a bit16:08
kristianpaulsure after pay 40usd in shipping :/16:08
kristianpaulahh i think i'll read more about the fdti chip16:10
kristianpauland SPI16:10
methril_workkristianpaul, you could buy a JTAGKey or some FTDI like JTAG16:25
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: Ethernet-phy and USB connected to FPGA http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/b22aa6216:37
lekernelwpwrak, you can also try mouser, they can send by USPS... and they don't systematically add taxes like fedex16:39
wpwrakkristianpaul: (40 usd) at some point in time, it used to be more than USD 100 to ship things from digi-key :-( so i always just collect stuff i want until i exceed USD 500 or so.16:39
wpwraklekernel: digi-key can send with USPS too. but that gets more expensive in the end, because the customs fees on that route are 50%.16:39
lekerneland the very nice thing about fedex is they charge you: 1. the VAT on your product 2. the "service" of adding VAT to your product 3. the "service" of making you pay when you receive the parcel 4. "value added" tax on the last two items16:40
lekernelfuck them16:40
wpwraklekernel: USPS does make sense however, if i exceed USD 1000. because fedex/ups/dhl/regular mail then can only clear customs with the help of a customs broker, while EMS (aka USPS EMI) is a higher limit for the "simple procedure" of USD 3000.16:40
lekernelreally? never had to pay any tax with USPS16:41
wpwraklekernel: huh, are you sure it's fedex who charge you ? it's usually customs who do that. fedex just collect the money.16:41
wpwraklekernel: i suppose you're not in argentina :)16:41
lekernelitems 2 and 3 are charged by fedex, not the others16:42
lekernelbut in the end it makes a really shitty bill16:42
wpwraklekernel: btw, for a really bad experience, try dhl. when i foolishly tried to get things with a value > USD 1000, fedex brought me the papers and then i was left on my own to get this stuff through customs myself.16:43
lekernelall stupid overhead16:43
wpwraklekernel: dhl, on the other hand, just sent me a note informing me that i should go to their office, get the papers for the small fee of about USD 100, and then take care of my things myself. very nice.16:44
lekernelyou mean go to the airport and talk to the customs yourself?16:44
lekerneloh, yeah16:44
wpwraklekernel: yup, airport, wait ~ 2 hours. find out what they didn't like. get told i need a customs broker. search for one. explain to that guy what it is. go home. come back the next day. have him talk to customs. pay fees, taxes, and "grease" money. a nice way to spend a couple of days.16:45
lekernelwhat the hell is a custom broker?16:46
lekernelcan't you talk directly to the custom agents?16:46
nebajothits someone who ensures that large shipments of internationally shipped goods are compliant with customs regulations16:46
wpwraklekernel: the guy who makes sure you and the customs broker are never in the same room when the delicate topic of bribes is approached :)16:46
nebajothmy brother in law is one16:47
lekernelnebajoth, that's a custom agent16:47
wpwraklekernel: you can talk to them and they tell you you can't do the importation. very easy :)16:47
nebajothdon't think so16:47
nebajothlike I said16:47
nebajothmy brother in law is one16:47
nebajoththat's what he does for a living16:47
nebajothright now he's doing it for a company that makes patio furniture16:48
Action: lekernel thinks he should get a better job16:48
Action: nebajoth does too.16:48
nebajothbut it pays well16:48
nebajothand its actually super hard to become one16:48
nebajothonly like 7% pass the test16:48
nebajothit involves basically memorizing the customs laws16:48
nebajothso you have to have a huge capacity for memorizing trivia16:48
nebajothwhich my brother in law does16:49
nebajothmuch to my annoyance at parties16:49
lekernelwpwrak, out of curiosity, what was the reason the customs told you for refusing importation?16:52
viricI've looked at mupdf... it looks made for Xorg17:20
virickristianpaul: weren't you using mupdf in the ben? Do you have Xorg in the ben?17:21
bartbesdoesn't jlime have X?17:27
tuxbrain2jlime has X17:27
tuxbrain2barbes stop reading my mind :P17:27
bartbestuxbrain2: stop typoing my name17:28
Action: tuxbrain promise use more often the tab function17:29
bartbeswell, to be perfectly honest, that was the second sentence I made17:30
bartbesso I was even faster!17:30
bartbes(or I read your mind even earlier, or I read your mind in the future... hmm)17:30
virictuxbrain, bartbes: ah, have X? hmm interesting. I did not think the ben could run X17:31
bartbeswell, why not?17:32
bartbesmeh.. memory perhaps17:32
tuxbrainviric: X exist from the 386 era, :) if remember well, Ben was in between a pentium and pentiumII, I'm wrong?17:33
tuxbrainI have read a benchmark let me search17:33
bartbesurandom__: btw, I managed to get the love runtime + love.filesystem running on the ben today17:36
bartbesthought you might be interested17:37
tuxbrainI'm wrong, ben was more betten a 486 <-> Pentium 200, but using lot less few power than any other x86 architecture17:37
urandom__wow nice17:37
bartbes(not that it was too hard, I just had to figure out how to do a few things)17:37
urandom__of course i am interested bartbes, love on ben will be lot of fun17:37
tuxbrainI think I have asked before but what is "love"? (baby don't hurtme ....) :P17:38
mththe kdrive X server should run just fine on 32MB17:39
mthwhether it's useful with a 320x240 screen and no mouse is another matter17:39
bartbeson a normal desktop computer you can run X in X in X17:39
bartbesso yeah17:39
urandom__x is running fine on ben with jlime17:40
tuxbrainbartbes: damn man, you have added another item to my TODO list "Learning LUA"17:42
tuxbrainplease don't showme any cool thing on Gforth!, I only have one live17:43
urandom__Lua is the most awesome language ever, really worth learning it (and very easy)17:43
bartbesgforth.. yeah, too bad I didn't get it to compile earlier today17:43
bartbesthough forth is more like a mental excersize to me17:44
tuxbrainurandom__: I remember when I listen the same about python :P17:44
bartbeswell, lua is a lot smaller than python17:44
bartbesso a lot easier to learn :P17:44
kristianpaulviric: with Jlime17:45
kristianpaulX runs just good :)17:45
nebajothlol @ java17:46
bartbeswhat is that supposed to be, quality?17:46
bartbesbecause if so17:46
bartbesI'm going to be sneaking up to your house with a knife in a few mins17:46
urandom__maybe he meant it the other way round17:46
bartbeslol no17:47
bartbesbecause java is still in the wrong place17:47
nebajothmaybe its the scale of not-awesomeness17:47
bartbesno man, c++ is better than java for sure17:47
bartbesand depending on the situation better than python17:47
kristianpaultuxbrain: you missed posix C17:48
urandom__oh and Forth is on my TODO learning list, not sure if it is worth it but i like its simplicity17:49
tuxbrainnot was a better scale, of course I prefer python over java in most cases, and C++ ends in a compiled bin allways more efficient than any interpreted language (yes I consider java interpreted (bytcodes but interpret any way)17:49
tuxbrainI the simplicity scale17:50
tuxbrainit was a simplicity scale17:50
bartbeshmm I never thought of java as easier than c++17:50
tuxbrainfor me is17:50
bartbesurandom__: I have yet to find me a single use for forth17:51
bartbesbut it's cool17:51
tuxbrainforth can even run without SO17:51
bartbesthe stack stuff really forces you to think in a different way17:51
bartbestuxbrain: yes it can17:51
bartbes(if you mean OS)17:51
tuxbrainI see it in action on Wikireader17:51
bartbesforth can, java, python, lua, etc can't17:51
tuxbrainyes sorry I mean OS, I see it as ideal to run testing hardware on production17:52
tuxbrainin fact I have read in ebedded world is some what a secret weapon17:53
tuxbrainI think secret due is not very known outside the embedded world, not even in the embedded world outside the enginering dptment :)17:55
urandom__most not c-like languages arent very known17:57
nebajothyou forget the functional languages17:57
nebajoththey seem fairly well known17:57
urandom__nah not as much as they would deserve to be known17:58
virictuxbrain, kristianpaul: is it Xorg built for the framebruffer?18:09
virichow does the mouse work there?18:09
viricmth: I didn't know of kdrive. Thank you!18:12
viricis that what jlime uses? kdrive X?18:13
tuxbrainviric: yes it use kdrive18:13
viricah I read: "As of X.Org Server version 7.1, the KDrive framework was integrated into the reference implementation and is now part of the generic source code release of the server."18:14
tuxbrainI far as I know they hide the mouse making it transparent, you use kbd to control it, the window system is matchbox18:15
viricI can build the xorg server with "--enable-kdrive". Interesting!18:15
viricI'm trying18:16
virictuxbrain: matchbox.. thank you!18:16
wpwraklekernel: (customs) usually "electrical security". i.e., when the thing connects to mains but doesn't have the argentina-only certification.19:57
wpwraklekernel: (customs) a value > USD 1000 would get me too, though.19:58
wpwraklekernel: ironically, i once bought a bitscope and asked them to ship it without power supply, because of this. they did and it passed customs without problems. in fact, this time they didn't even look inside the box. then i bought a power supply locally. that one had a leakage between the primary and the secondary side. one dead usb port on the pc and a dead bitscope later, i was aware of that slight problem, too. thanks, customs, for20:02
wpwrak not letting me use decent products.20:02
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: 66-tsop footprint added http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/095339f20:11
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: Adding librarys. http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/4c0865220:15
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:xue http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/5b131af20:15
kristianpaulviric: no mouse20:20
kristianpaulviric: /j #jlime for more questions :)20:20
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added AT86RF230 schematics symbol and some misc. stuff. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9eefe6020:31
larscviric: my nanonote detects card removal and the pin is low when the card is not there20:49
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: ddr component changed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/7b759dd21:18
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: annotate http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/134f84121:22
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: DRAM.sch2 deleted http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/0130eb321:22
xiangfukristianpaul: Hi22:07
kristianpaulxiangfu: hello22:07
xiangfukristianpaul: someone send me one link : http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Screenshots_gallery22:08
xiangfukristianpaul: do you know that project ??22:08
kristianpaulhmm i saw it in OSM broefly some weeks ago22:09
xiangfukristianpaul: just for your information. I think we should port this project to Ben NanoNote :).22:09
xiangfuit works in a lot of device.22:09
kristianpaulhow about our screen, it will fit?22:10
kristianpaulis gtk thats good start :)22:10
xiangfukristianpaul: yes.22:11
xiangfuI am not sure the screen. but we should try. :)22:11
xiangfuand I like the "Navit currently speaks 43 languages"22:11
kristianpauli dont have car but guess will be usefull fot the bike :)22:12
kristianpaulxiangfu: but lets get cgps and gpxlogger working i think22:13
xiangfukristianpaul: yes. sure.22:14
kristianpaulsoembody in openwrt point me to asterisk 1.6 to look examples of how get singles bianries compiled22:14
kristianpaulis i jlime !22:14
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: ddr footprint changed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/11ade0f22:30
rafakristianpaul: what is jlime?22:40
kristianpaulrafa: jlime.com you want to see ;)22:41
kristianpauli just know ir run X and doest sucks as people thing22:42
kristianpauland there are lots of pakages to install22:42
rafakristianpaul: ah.. well, people thinks that jlime is a ghost :D22:45
kristianpaulghost because light?22:46
kristianpaulor because scare?22:47
rafakristianpaul: because nobody knows much about it :) .. have you read today the people asking if X would run on nn?22:51
kristianpaulrafa: yeah seems they dont know jlime :)22:51
rafaah.. you did!, you already said them about jlime and X  .. great22:52
kristianpaulor compile options in openwrt22:52
rafayeah.. I wonder if people read ml or similar.. we are trying to announce the stuff when we upload something or for related stuff22:53
monofuelatm i'm trying to come up with reasons to buy a ben nn- has anyone ever tried running dwarf fortress on it through qemu or such?22:53
rafamonofuel: you want to run qemu on nn?.. no idea which platform you want to emulate into nn.. Why do you want that?22:54
monofuelwell dwarf fortress has a linux version, however it's x8622:55
monofueli don't really know too much about MIPS actually.22:55
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: annotate http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/171e40922:56
rafamonofuel: it looks like swarf fortress needs a big terminal right?.. I am checking the screenshots. I do not know nothing about22:57
monofuelthat's another thing i'm unsure of- i'm not entirely sure what the max terminal size needed is22:57
rafamonofuel: nn has 320x240 screen, best console is around 5x7 font.. which is already hard to read22:58
rafawhich is less than 80x2422:58
rafamonofuel: but you can play other games..22:58
rafaand enjoy nn anyway :)22:58
monofuelwell in a last ditch i could use ssh22:58
monofueland run dwarf fortress on my quadcore instead if i have internet22:59
monofuelactually 80x24 would be fine for DF22:59
monofuelhowever it's a rather cpu intensive and would require a 256~512mb swap22:59
monofuelit's been reported to be bairly playable on low settings on a pentium II at 500mhz23:00
rafann is slower23:00
kristianpaularound 30Mhz23:00
monofuelyea, atm i'm debating all i could use it for23:01
rafakristianpaul: :) .. 66Mhz, 486dx :)23:01
rafamonofuel: you can play quake1 at least23:01
kristianpaulyeah !23:01
rafadoom, heretic surely, many other ports23:01
rafasnes9x runs great23:02
kristianpauli need got rom?23:02
kristianpaulor jsut install23:02
monofuelwhat about gba?23:02
rafakristianpaul: snes9x is on jlime repo. When you run the icon, it asks you to choose a rom, so yes, you need roms23:02
rafakristianpaul: we set the same file chooser that you already know (the same used for video player, or mupdf)23:03
monofuelthis may be a longshot- how about starcraft or Age of empires?23:03
rafaso when you start snes9x from desktop23:03
kristianpaulyeah like that way23:03
rafait start the file chooser to choose a rom23:04
rafakristianpaul: so you can copy roms whenever you want23:04
rafamonofuel: is not age of empires a microsoft game for windows?23:05
monofuelstarcraft 2 is also for win23:05
monofuelstarcraft i mean23:05
rafaplaystation 323:05
rafagames will not run23:05
uncloudedmonofuel: can you program?  the NN is a great target for your own software23:19
monofuelme and a friend have worked on SDL apps in perl23:19
uncloudedperl and SDL are installed by default although I'm not sure about SDL bindings for perl23:20
uncloudedshould be easy to port if not though23:20
monofuelhow tricky is it to port software to the nn?23:20
monofuellike, if i had the source, would most programs be able to work if they were just recompiled on the nn?23:21
uncloudednot very.  This page shows how to build OpenWRT: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Ben_NanoNote_software_from_source23:21
uncloudedand it's very very easy to get going23:21
monofueli run gentoo and i know my way around compiling, just i'm unfamiliar with mips23:21
uncloudedno root privs required or anything non-standard needing to be installed on your workstation and it builds: 1) the bootloader 2) the kernel, 3) the rootfs and 4) the individual packages for installation on a system that's already set up23:22
uncloudedI don't even notice that it's MIPS.  it's mipsel so maybe that's why there are few issues cross-compiling23:23
uncloudedthe OpenWRT process on that wiki page builds a MIPS toolchain in the directory in which you unpack it, so you can just compile for MIPS on your x86 ( or whatever) box23:23
monofuelah k23:23
uncloudedthere are some members of the community who are into getting Gentoo working smoothly on the NN too ( if you want to run Gentoo on it)23:24
uncloudedif you get some micro SD cards you can put a different distro on each if you like.  Just hold down the M key when you power on to boot from SD23:25
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: early placement http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/a8fcbf023:25
monofuelwould it be possible for me to run openwrt in qemu and try it out first?23:26
uncloudeddon't know.  You can use qemu to boot a MIPS system but the NN kernel likely expect the NN LCD driver to be present, which I guess qemu doesn't emulate23:27
uncloudedmonofuel: what sort of apps do you write in perl & SDL?23:28
monofuelso far it hasn't been much, we've just designed a simple racing game based around drifting23:28
uncloudedsounds pretty cool.  how much processing power does it need to run?23:29
monofueli'm not entirely sure, not much i'd imagine23:29
monofueli'll run it and monitor it with htop a sec...23:29
monofuelit's using about 37mb of ram and only 5% of a 2.6ghz23:31
monofuelhowever it's using fairly large sprites and such23:31
monofuelthat would probably have to be toned down anyway for nn23:31
uncloudedsounds like it could run on the NN with smaller sprites.  there's a good reason to get one then ;)23:32
monofueli can assume most text-based adventures like nethack and angband run?23:33
monofuelthat would be a major plus :)23:33
uncloudedi can't see a reason why they wouldn't.  not sure which games like that have been ported so far.  the CPU is fairly grunty, it's the RAM that games have to be frugal with23:36
monofuelwhat about swap?23:36
uncloudedI ported freedroid almost without having to patch it at all to run on the NN.  Freedroid actually render every frame at 640x480 and then scales it to 320x240 to fit the screen.  every single frame.  manages about 30fps I think23:37
xdpiratehow can i have a script that's respawned by init everytime it's killed, launch something only a single time?23:37
uncloudedxdpirate: what about /etc/inittab?23:38
xdpirateunclouded, the rootfs is read-only23:39
xdpiratespecifically, i need it to run mkswap the first time the script is run, but not on subsequent runs (until next reboot)23:39
uncloudedmonofuel: I haven't tried swap but I imagine it's as simple as create a file with dd, editing fstab and using swapon23:39
uncloudedxdpirate: why does the swap partition/file have to be initialized each boot at all?  it's normally only done once23:41
xdpirateunclouded, are you saying that i only need to run mkswap once ever on the swap file, and it'll work with swap on each time, even after reboots?23:42
uncloudedmonofuel: better to swap on SD, not on the internal NAND.  don't want to reduce those precious write cycles23:42
uncloudedxdpirate: that's the way swap usually works I thought23:42
xdpirateunclouded, that makes my problem non-existant then, thanks :D23:42
monofuelyup. also i was wondering about wifi?23:42
xdpirateah, mkswap physically moves the swap file together with 0 fragmentation23:44
xdpiratemakes sense that once that's done, it won't have to be run again23:44
uncloudedmonofuel: wifi is not built in.  you can use an SDIO wifi card but a) you can't use an SD card at the same time and b) it costs as much again as the NN!23:44
xdpiratethere exists wifi cards that have are combo wifi/storage, but no drivers23:45
xdpirateso you'd have to write them yourself :P23:45
monofueli read that ethernet over usb cables work?23:46
monofueli could use it with a a cheap wireless router running dd-wrt23:46
monofuelnot sure about how to power the router though- also it might be bulky.23:47
uncloudedmonofuel: yes.  unless you compile your own kernels without the correct modules, as soon as you connect the NN to your workstation, your workstation gains a usb0 interface23:47
monofuelor rather what about just a usb device?23:47
monofuelerrr- usb wifi device23:47
monofuelmost usb wifi devices have spotty linux support- however i've had experience with them working fine with ndiswrapper23:48
uncloudedmonofuel: no USB HOST support unfortunately, it's only a USB device like most phones.  USB HOST support is very high priority for the next revision on the NN because so many people want it so badly23:49
monofuelso does that rule out usb flash drives too?23:50
xdpiratemonofuel, yes, anything that needs a host23:50
xdpiratemonofuel, it can only act as a slave, connected to a host, such as a pc23:50
uncloudedyou can still use them via your workstation but not on the go, no23:51
monofuelah, k.23:51
uncloudedmonofuel: have you seen this review: http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/2010/08/pure-fun-but-not-for-faint-hearted.html23:51
monofuelthat's how i found the project23:51
monofuelmy first thought was portable dwarf fortress to be honest23:52
monofuelsorry- i just have an insane obsession with that fun curses-based game :)23:53
uncloudedlooks pretty cool23:53
monofuelpreviously i've looked at the pandora- however it's expensive and not in much supply23:54
uncloudedsays you need 512 MB of RAM and a 3D accelerator card, which seems a bit odd given the interface23:57
monofuelthe older 40d version does23:57
monofuelthe newer one has had a complete graphics rehaul23:57
monofuelit now supports linux and even a direct terminal instead of using it's own window23:58
monofuelthe settings can be adjusted- like smaller maps, less features and such for slower pc's23:58
monofuelalso the ram thing is why i asked the swap question earlier23:59
uncloudedmaybe they generate the whole world at startup and then store it in RAM instead of using procedural generation23:59
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