#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2010-08-08

viricHow many megabytes of free memory for user processes you can achieve in your nanonotes?03:50
kyakwith swap enabled, more than necessary04:02
kyakby default, it occupies 12-15 Mb of RAM if i'm not mistaken04:03
viricthe kernel you mean?04:04
viricWith few programs running (ssh + bash + syslogd), I get 12MB used04:04
viricI don't have swap enabled04:04
viricI did not think of enabling swap... do many people enable some swap in the nanonote?04:05
kyaki do, i don't know about others04:06
virictuxbrain: can you paste an .asoundrc with softvol, sisplau? :)04:06
virickyak: ah ok. swap on a file, on a mtd block device, on a sd card?04:06
kyakon sd card04:06
kyakthe same partition i use for swap for jlime04:07
kyakkind of handy04:07
viricI don't know jlime04:07
viricDoes the nanonote have suspend-to-ram working?04:07
kyakdon't know.. do you need it?04:08
viricI don't know :)04:08
viricIt's always something welcomed, isn't it?04:09
viricfor swap, I thought, it would help not writing and writing it again at every boot04:09
jyf1987hi all04:34
jyf1987just bought a nanonote04:34
jyf1987and dont know how to open application04:34
viricare you proficient on Linux?04:34
viricGNU systems in general04:34
jyf1987i am now under linux04:35
jyf1987i press enter key on the application,but system took me to setting04:35
viricI don't know what software does the nanoboot come with04:36
viricthe nanonote04:36
viricHow did you get software into it? You put it?04:36
kyakjyf1987: press x04:36
jyf1987viric: no its the default app04:36
viricI've never seen it04:37
kyakjyf1987: read here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Gmenu2x04:37
jyf1987kyak: thank04:37
kyakfor key bindings04:37
viricah, it's like the menu of a gp2x?04:37
jyf1987kyak: so why they bind x for enter?04:37
jyf1987its cool04:38
jyf1987i learnt programming from a e-dictionary with a 6052 chip inside04:39
jyf1987and for years i want to have a device like that, now i got it04:39
virichow come you could program that dictionary?04:43
viricwasn't it closed?04:43
jyf1987so how can i reinstall other linux to it?04:43
jyf1987i do not like the default os04:43
viricYou can flash there an openwrt (the supported OS by qi-hardware I think)04:44
jyf1987viric: its closed but it has a basic language for user04:44
viricor a Debian lenny04:44
viricif you ask google for "debian lenny nanonote" that should point you to the flashing procedure04:44
jyf1987and some hacker use 6502 asm for it04:44
kyakjyf1987: basically you have three choices: openwrt, debian, jlime04:44
viricjyf1987: it's a version of debian I think04:44
viricjyf1987: 'lenny' is the equivalent of a version number I imagine04:45
jyf1987yesterday i just help my customer to change os from win server 2003 to debian 504:45
jyf1987viric: i know that :]04:45
viricI'm partially in an attempt to port some other kind of Linux-based OS04:46
viricbut I still have not achieved anything usable :)04:46
jyf1987viric: how about tinycore ?04:46
viricI don't know that.04:46
viricHasn't anyone ported Armstrong to it, thought? It looks like a good armstrong target04:46
jyf1987viric: you can try it at www.tinycorelinuxx.com04:46
jyf1987sorry its  www.tinycorelinux.com04:46
kyakviric: what's Armstrong?04:47
wpwrakpity that there's no chance for layout changes for the next ben production run. a few "interesting" ios would be easy to recover04:47
virica distribution for small systems04:47
wpwrakargh. do no press cursor up and enter if not sure in which window you are :-(04:48
viricI've just noticed they say Angstrom where I say Armstrong :D04:48
kyakyes, there are a lot of small footprint distributions our there04:49
viricmaybe that works only on Arm systems.04:49
kyaki don't see why any of them is worse of better than openwrt04:49
kyakat the same time, openwrt works here and now04:50
jyf1987kyak: i think what i dislike is not openwrt but the gmenu04:50
kyakbasically they are all linux kernel + busybox04:50
jyf1987and my wireless router is also openwrt :]04:50
kyakjyf1987: just disable it04:50
virickyak: openwrt has its limitations04:51
virickyak: which means some lack of flexibility04:51
kyakviric: what kidn of limitations?04:51
viricsay you want a package compiled in another way04:51
kyakjyf1987: /etc/init.d/start04:51
jyf1987ok will check that04:52
kyakviric: so..? feel free to compile it any way you want04:52
jyf1987i want to try some other fb based desktop04:52
kyakget the toolchain, edit the Makefile.. and so on04:52
virickyak: that build system is not easy to install everywhere04:53
jyf1987anyway, what you guys use nanonote for?04:53
virickyak: additionally I like to use latest versions for the toolchain04:53
kyakviric: what do you mean "everywhere"? can you build angstrom from under Windows?04:53
jyf1987viric: that's the point, so i will choose script programming language for it04:53
virickyak: what I run in the nanonote goes with the latest gcc and glibc. 4.5.1 and
virickyak: I don't like Angstrom either! :)04:54
kyakah ok. i hope you really profit from the latest gcc :)04:54
virickyak: I think it's easier to get attention from upstream, using the latest versions. I'd feel shame for reporting a bug on gcc 3.x ;)04:55
viricwell, not for reporting, but for expecting a fix04:55
virickyak: and I assume the latest versions work better.04:55
virickyak: and of course I'm using a system *less painful* than openwrt...04:56
kyakyeah.. feel free devoting your time to catching up with the latest versions04:56
virickyak: it's not difficult at all04:56
kyakviric: you're talking "secretly"04:56
virickyak: using a capable-enough system. :) I use the nixpkgs cross build system04:56
kyakwhat's "a system" you are using?04:56
viricThis is what I run to get the latest kernel: nix-build -A linuxPackages_nanonote_jz_2_6_35.kernel.hostDrv nanonote.nix04:57
viricThis is how I get 'rogue': nix-build -A rogue.hostDrv nanonote.nix04:57
viricDo you want to see the 'private' file "nanonote.nix" that defines the system?04:57
viricthe rest of the files into play are from a normal upstream distribution of packages: nixpkgs   http://nixos.org/nixpkgs/    (not specially coded for the nanonote)04:59
kyakdoes nix-build run everywhere?04:59
virickyak: even cygwin04:59
virickyak: not native win32 though04:59
virickyak: but the cross-build system works only on Linux by now (as far as I have tested. I don't know of anyone that tried to test it in other places)04:59
virickyak: on 'Linux' means i686-linux, x86_64-linux, armv5tel-linux and mips64-linux, regardless of the distribution.05:00
kyakso your main point was that openwrt is not flexible05:00
kyakat the same time, you just use nix-build to build a pacakge05:00
kyakyou understand that you don't really need to modify anything05:01
viricI'm very used to the 'nix' way of describing how to build something, so I can use the same language for my desktop computers and for the nanonote.05:01
virickyak: do you want to see the description on how to build rogue?05:01
kyakso that's just your personal affection then05:01
kyaki don't even know what rogue is :)05:02
viricA nethack style game :)05:02
kyaki personally pretty much got used to the openwrt build system05:02
tuxbrainviric: Jlime is an OE based distro as Armstrong05:02
virichttps://svn.nixos.org/websvn/nix/nixpkgs/trunk/pkgs/games/rogue/default.nix   this natively builds and cross builds05:03
virickyak: Well, you understand the advantages of using *the same system* in your desktop and in the nanonote, right? :)05:03
kyaki don't really need it05:04
viricwell, for two computers, you have one system *less* to learn.05:04
kyaki don't have to "learn" anything05:04
kyakyou don't have to, with modern linux distros05:04
viricah, it depends on what do you want to achieve05:04
kyakthey all have prety smart package managers]05:04
kyakwhat do i want for my desktop? click and install, or "single command install"05:04
virickyak: I don't agree. :) Most package managers work as a "list of tarballs to unpack with a list of dependencies on what tarballs to unpack"05:04
kyakwhy would i want it to do anything with Ben?05:05
virickyak: ah, well, I want something more than 'click and install' :)05:05
kyakviric: so what?05:05
kyakyou want to fell "freedom", while you actually don't need it. you want to be "in control", while you actually don't need it05:05
virickyak: some excerpts of what "most package managers" don't have: http://nixos.org/nix/05:06
kyaki'm pretty much satisfied with defaults my linux distro provides05:06
kyakand so are 95 % of users05:06
virickyak: no problem. I don't mind much about other users. I never came here telling what they have to use. :)05:06
viricBut I choose open hardware so I can do whatever I want with it; and using the distro I like is one of the freedoms I like enjoying :)05:07
tuxbrainviric:regarding rogue on OpenWrt you have the original nethack(ascii) and powder(SDL)05:07
virictuxbrain: this means that rogue is not there ;)05:07
kyakget it there05:08
tuxbrainbeaware on it be resolution proof (320x240)05:08
kyakfeel "free"05:08
kyakviric: you will be very much surprised how openwrt's Makefile is similar to that rogue nix recipy05:08
virickyak: and the possibility to use 'nix' for either the nanonote, the sheevaplug, a full featured KDE desktop, cross-building or not cross-building, with advantages like multiple-versions in the system, rollback, atomic upgrades, ... makes it quite a worth system.05:08
tuxbrainI think is the main constrain in order to port grafical software to nanonote, not the distro it self05:09
tuxbrainthe resolution05:09
kyakviric: you should really make you yourself familiar with widely-accepted package managers. Most of them are not that stupid as you imagine05:10
virickyak: I feel that they achieve very little05:10
virickyak: I remember being at fosdem this year, and I went to the debian cross-building meeting. All they had in their list of "Future plans" was in our list of "what we already have"05:11
kyakviric: anyway, have you got this NixOs running on Ben?05:11
viricAnd with far less effort than what the debian people are doing.05:11
virickyak: all I'd need to do is write the init script. Cross-building the software works fine. And I've had the nanonote for a week.05:11
jyf1987kyak: how can i get console on nanonote? there's 3 application default05:11
kyakjyf1987: as you do it on every other linux, ctrl+alt+F1-F505:12
virickyak: I'm dediating very little time to this... I'm also involved in the Fuloong2F port, and I did the Sheevaplug port too. I'm sure I achieved that with far less effort than other distributions I know fo.05:12
jyf1987kyak: oh, forget it05:13
kyakviric: have you ported anything to openwrt?05:13
jyf1987kyak: i thought gmenu run on fb05:13
virickyak: no. The openwrt build system is hard to install over nixpgks, I think05:13
jyf1987i like tty more than gui ,:D05:14
kyakthat how you can be "sure"? it takes me half-hour to port an average application05:14
virickyak: I have not tried learning OpenWRT because what I do in 'nix' has more far reaching positive consequences than what I could do for openwrt.05:14
kyakthan you can't compare05:15
kyakyou just use what you use05:15
kyakwhat you used to :)05:15
virickyak: as all is valid enough for my desktop system, servers, embedded systems, workstations, ...05:15
kyakand this is what you dare to call "freedom"05:15
virickyak: do you use OpenWRT in your laptop?05:15
kyakno, why would I?05:15
virickyak: learning openwrt gives me little advantages compared to contributing to nix. I use nix everywhere, while you use OpenWRT only on your routers and nanonotes (I guess)05:16
kyaki'm very satisfied with my current distro (mandriva), which i've been using for several years so far05:16
virickyak: Why would I spend effort in a system that will make my contributions work only on such a limited set?05:16
virickyak: I already said that I don't care that much on "other users that did not choose nix" ;)05:17
kyaki might be not "FSF geek", but who's using NixOS anyways? this is the time i've heard about it05:17
kyak*first time05:17
virickyak: it's the main GNU continuous build system: http://www.gnu.org/software/devel.html bottom of the page. For example.05:17
viricfor example.05:18
kyakah, ok . pretty cool05:18
kyakso.. when you actually have it running on Ben, let me know :)05:19
kyaki'm willing to try it05:19
viricWell, you better try it on a more flexible computer first :)05:19
viricIf you are used to mandriva, it will have a high step learning curve at the beginning05:19
viricAnd you can be soon disappointed05:20
kyakwow, you are so full of stereotypes05:20
viricFirst you have to understand that you want what nix provides over the other package managers. That should give you the 'energy' to do the effort :)05:20
virickyak: Yes ;)05:21
virickyak: Feel free to break them :)05:21
kyakcan i have nix package manager on a top of any linux distro?05:21
kyakor i need to switch to NixOS?05:21
viricNo, you can use it on linux, BSDs, ...05:21
kyakviric: ok, i might have a look05:22
viricYou can ask for guidance on #nixos if you have questions.05:22
viricI know very few users of it, but I don't know of any who used it and then changed to another distro :)05:23
kyakviric: i'm definitely not changing distro.. just because it makes no sense05:24
viricBut I let you know that most users in NixOS come after being disappointed of other package managers, after falling into trouble with them.05:24
kyakthey are all the _same_05:24
viricMmm I suggest you to read on nixos. It's the only one I found 'different'. I came to it reading the papers: http://www.st.ewi.tudelft.nl/~dolstra/pubs/nixos-jfp-submitted.pdf for example05:25
viricEven if you don't switch, you may be interested on "how some people try to do something different"05:25
kyakyep, could be an interesting reading :)05:26
virickyak: after reading, I thought "I have to learn how to use this!" :)05:27
kyaki just need to get in trouble with my package manager to really start doing something.. i say it not even being afraid to05:27
kyak..to put an evil eye on it05:27
viricin fact the person working on RPM5 has an eye on nix05:30
viricmandriva works rpm-based iirc05:30
kyakoh, so i might just wait :)05:31
viricwell, I can't say I've seen anything good from that RPM5. :)05:35
virictime will say.05:36
viricdo you use only x86 PCs and the nanonote? or more platforms?05:40
kyakviric: only x86 and the Ben07:31
kristianpaulxiangfu: there?10:08
xiangfukristianpaul: yes10:09
kristianpauli'm looking for openwrt-xburst-uImage.bin after openwrt compiles with make10:09
kristianpauli dont find it :/10:09
kristianpaulah got it10:09
kristianpaulsorry xiangfu :)10:09
kristianpaulis in bin/10:10
xiangfukristianpaul:  bin/xburst/10:10
xiangfukristianpaul: the name have changed to bin/xburst/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-uImage.bin  :)10:11
kristianpauli noticed that too10:11
kristianpaulhmm the uImage is not used anymore?10:13
kristianpaulwait not the root image10:14
kristianpauli'm follwing this http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Updating_Ben_with_usbboot10:14
kristianpaulnot sure if is updated :/10:14
kristianpaulah is -ubi10:15
kristianpaulmy fault10:15
xiangfuI will update that page. :)10:18
kristianpauli can10:20
kristianpaulah ok :)10:20
kristianpaulgo ahead !10:20
kristianpauloh new font is sweet :)10:40
virichmm I've just tried to put a SD card11:20
viricdmesg shows the proper size and partition, but it goes immediately "retrying using single block read11:21
viric"error -145 sending status command"11:21
viric"error -145 sending read/write command, response 0x0, card status 0x0"11:21
viricend_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector 011:21
larscviric: does anything change if you remove it and reinsert it?11:26
viriclarsc: it says the same11:28
viricmaybe I'm putting it somehow wrong?11:28
viricnot fast enough, ... ?11:28
viricit's 2.6.34 (openwrt patches)11:29
viric(openwrt config generic + xburst + qb_lb60 config, simply setting the sound as in-kernel)11:29
larscwell either your card is broken or there is a bug11:31
viricit's a card I used in a gp2x11:32
viricI'll try in my notebook11:32
viric2GB microSD from Kingston11:32
viricmy pc reads it perfectly11:32
larscso it is a bug.11:33
viricmay I try 2.6.35?11:33
larscthere has been some restructuring in the mmc driver for 2.6.3511:33
viric10 minutes and I'll have it I hope11:34
viriclarsc: btw I changed that keymap you gave me (pointing to gitorious) to get pageup/pagedown and scrollup/scrolldown11:43
viricIMO it had wrong keys, or I did not guess what were those keys mapped to pageup/pagedown11:44
viriclarsc: hmm it looks like the 2.6.35 in openwrt does not have mmc support at all. Btw the keyboard patch works fine11:48
viricI mean maybe it's not in the config. I'll check11:50
virichmmm it is11:51
viricdmesg says nothing, when I put the card11:51
viricJZ4740 SD/Multimedia Card Interface support, NAME: MMC_JZ4740, ALTS: Y/n/m/?, ANSWER:11:51
viricit's there.11:52
larscviric: is there a /sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc on your nanonote ?11:53
viric[   10.020000] jz4740-rtc jz4740-rtc: rtc core: registered jz4740-rtc as rtc011:53
viric[   10.050000] jz4740-mmc jz4740-mmc.0: JZ SD/MMC card driver registered11:53
viric[   10.070000] No device for DAI jz4740-i2s11:53
viric[   10.110000] asoc: jz4740 <-> jz4740-i2s mapping ok11:53
viricit's there11:53
viric/sys/kernel/debug/mmc0 # cat ios11:54
viricclock:          0 Hz11:54
viricvdd:            0 (invalid)11:54
viricbus mode:       1 (open drain)11:54
viricchip select:    0 (don't care)11:54
viricpower mode:     0 (off)11:54
viricbus width:      0 (1 bits)11:54
virictiming spec:    0 (legacy)11:54
viricHmmmm I halted and booted, and it works now. I was in the system through a 'back reset button' after usbboot flashing the firmware.11:56
viricthe card reading worked (it had the card at boot time). But when I took the card out, it did not notice I took it out.11:57
larscdo you have the latest openwrt trunk?11:58
larscthere was a bug with the card detection, but it was fixed a few days ago11:59
viricI have the latest, so I have your keyboard patch11:59
viric22530 I mean12:00
larsccould you paste your /sys/kernel/debug/gpio again?12:00
viric(btw, the resort of the card just threw my microsd 5 meters away12:02
viricI had to look for it in the grass :)12:02
larscand /proc/interrupts12:06
viriclarsc: interrupt counter for the mmc detect increases only when I remove the card12:08
virictuxbrain: did you try the microphone in the nanonote? I tried arecord... at what highest rate can I record? All I tried over 8000Hz looks like failing, with arecord.12:14
larscviric: its a bit strage that the card detect gpio pin is high both times.12:17
virichm I agree.12:18
viricMaybe I broke something in the hw? Should I try 2.6.34 back?12:18
viricthe gpio does not change at all12:19
viricwhen I put or remove the card12:19
viricBut interrupts, there are.12:19
viric(only removing)12:19
viricso, nothing new.12:19
larsci'll try with my nanonote late to see if i can reporduce it12:20
viricin the worst case I can boot with the card in12:20
viricIt looks like it takes the state from boot time.12:20
viricwhen I boot without card, it stays as without card12:20
viricit's better than 2.6.34 :)12:21
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: Phy http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/5ce440413:16
viriclarsc: Can I tell by software to the kernel that the mmc card is out or in?13:27
larscviric: nope. but you can reload the the driver13:36
viriclarsc: if it is not a module?13:36
larsceven it is not a module13:36
viricI didn't know13:37
larsccd /sys/bus/platform/driver/jz4740-mmc/; echo jz4740-mmc > unbind; echo jz4740-mmc > bind13:37
viric# echo jz4740-mmc > unbind13:39
viric-bash: echo: write error: No such device13:39
viricah, with .0 maybe13:40
viricright, it works fine. It detects the card when it's in, and does not detect anything when it is not13:42
viricthank you!13:42
kristianpaulnice font in last openwrt xburst :)13:42
virickristianpaul: mm is it different?13:43
viricmmmm (thinking) is it different?13:43
zeartuxbrain2, hey man, do you accept paypal payment for the wiz? We have a guy on our dingoo forums looking for a uk wiz seller that accepts paypal15:57
viric(whois zear16:03
zearit's me, i'm legit ;)16:03
viricI was interested why you could have mixed 'ue' and 'eu' looking at your hostname :)16:03
viric(and guessing some land from it)16:03
zearyeah, we write it UE in Poland, though i usually don't make that mistake16:04
zearit's just that i typed "uk" first16:04
virickristianpaul: ah, I forgot to ask; What is different in the font?16:07
kristianpaulviric: little but good16:12
kristianpauljust enough16:12
virickristianpaul: hm is it 2.6.35?16:14
viricI wonder what font it is. 4x6? 8x8?16:15
viricI'll go for that 4x6; it will be better than the current 8x16 I have chosen :)16:17
viricuh bad idea.16:25
viric4x6 looks unreadable :)16:25
viriccan you know what font you use?16:27
kristianpaulopkg list said dejavu-fonts-ttf 2.23-116:28
viricuh ttf?16:28
viricaren't you talking about the fbcon font?16:28
kristianpauldont know16:28
kristianpauli just  compile last openwrt-xburst16:29
viricok I'll check16:29
viricin the tree16:29
virichaha the commit there says: mirko: do not use font <FONT_MINI_4x6> for target lb60 by default as it's unreadable16:30
viricwhich matches what I said a few lines ago :)16:30
viricBut I don't see any special font set16:31
viricother than 8x1616:31
viriccan you tell me the result of "echo $LINES $COLUMNS" ?16:32
viricin a shell in the screen16:32
viricmaybe it even is not a font set by the kernel, but set by the init scripts?16:33
viricI'll keep on with fbterm16:35
tuxbrain2zear, no more wiz...17:09
zearyou ran out of stock?17:09
zeari thought nobody was buying them ;)17:09
Action: Textmode is nobody17:10
tuxbrain2I have this article under demand due the provider was in spain and ships in 24h but he also runs out of stock and will not refill again17:11
tuxbrain2In fact it is not manufactured anymore17:12
zearok, i see17:13
qi-bot[commit] Juan64Bits: USB and MICROSD footprints added http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/0d12fb218:54
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Change wood size for 4th mold. Improved documentation. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-counterweight/709838a20:28
qi-bot[commit] kyak: initial port of kbd utilities (thanks to wryun) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/22ac69122:02
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: Make Gforth's built-in assembler/disassembler work on non-mips architectures. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f60cf4722:02
qi-bot[commit] bartbes: gmenu2x: Fixed file explorer/dialog http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/51419fd22:02
qi-bot[commit] bartbes: gmenu2x: Fixed dir up http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/233fe2222:02
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: switch to newer upstream snapshot with improved MIPS support. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/4fd349622:02
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: fix the problem with csqrt. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/a66f6ed22:02
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-packages http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/13b0dde22:02
wolfspraulstrange those seems like old commits :-)22:10
wolfspraulxiangfu: maybe because of the merge at the end?22:10
xiangfuwolfspraul: seems there is something wrong with my merge.22:21
wolfspraulouch :-)22:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: fix the problem with csqrt. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/ea492be22:26
xiangfuwolfspraul: fixed :)22:27
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: borrando basura http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/9fa83a722:31
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/bd2d31422:31
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: more fpga ddr lines has been connected http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/3678b1c23:53
--- Mon Aug 9 201000:00

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