#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2010-08-04

qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: bootdelay 3 secs when press S http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/348233000:25
zhangyixiangfu, i realize maybe i should ask you the questions here03:54
zhangyiI just want to install the latest OpenWrt image03:55
zhangyixiangfu: so i went to "http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/How_to_reflash"03:55
zhangyixiangfu: and try to follow the steps one by one and see where this leads me to03:56
xiangfuzhangyi: hi03:57
zhangyixiangfu: hi03:58
zhangyixiangfu: for OpenWrt distribution, should i just install tarball instead?03:59
zhangyixiangfu: xburst-tools tarball04:00
wpwrakwolfspraul: any ideas for my HTML in git problem ?04:53
wpwrakwolfspraul: that's the last missing bit to complete the migration of the scans04:54
rafakristianpaul: yes, but these are just test. but yes, with a specific way to convert the files I get fluency (after several seconds) but no sync05:28
wolfspraulwpwrak: I saw it06:04
wpwrakwolfspraul: somewhat tricky :) i tried to find out where the pretty-printing happens in the scm-to-git gateway, but could only find the decision whether to highlight or not06:12
wolfspraulwpwrak: hmm, since you already look in the indefero sources you are ahead06:17
wolfspraulwe can just patch them06:17
wolfspraulI can also try to track it down06:17
wolfspraulthere may be security implications, not sure. I'm always extremely careful with this html stuff, it's so easy to open some door without realizing..06:18
wolfspraulthere seems to be a /file/ url to 'download' just the html, did you see that (at the bottom)06:18
wolfspraulwe'll find a way. we could also ask on the indefero side, or file a bug/feature request to see what they say06:19
wpwrak(file URL) oh ! no, i had not spotted this one. let's see ...06:22
wpwrakhmm. very very close. konqueror asks what to do, then i tell it to just display it, and henceforth it does. firefox is less certain. it identifies it as html, but then offers me download or to run konqueror (!) to display it06:24
wpwrak(security implications) yeah, that's always quite hairy.06:27
wpwraki see basically three possible approaches: 1) put the file elsewhere, on some regular web space. quick and easy. drawbacks: view spans multiple sites, and relative paths don't work. so one can't just look at it locally, then commit. (except with a separate local build mode)06:29
wolfspraulI can look into this, an integrated solution would be best.06:31
wpwrak2) hack indefero to present the file as true html (or get it hacked). this should of course be optional - most people probably prefer to see html sources as text, without interpretation.06:31
wolfspraulthe best would be if the indefero people could think it through :-)06:31
wpwrak3) do some url rewriting that maps everything into the same hierarchy, even if they're at different places on the server. a bit messy. basically moves the complexity of the "local build mode" into the web server06:32
wpwrak(indefero) agreed :-)06:32
wpwrakone could also consider this a completely different mode to view things. i.e., make it become a "regular" web server but using an scm instead of a regular file system06:34
wpwrakoh, if there was something like a gitfs, that would work too, in combination with a regular web server06:35
wpwrakgoogling for gitfs ... hmm, a semi-abandoned one from 2006 ...06:36
wpwrak... one on ithub, 2009,06:36
wpwrak... one on google code, for inferno, whatever os that may be, ... one for Pharao, whatever *that* may be, ... ah, and the semi-abandoned one even made it to lwn06:38
wolfspraulhah, once there was someone who said he wanted to port inferno to the nanonote :-)06:44
wolfspraulI wrote up an issue in indefero: http://projects.ceondo.com/p/indefero/issues/514/06:44
wolfspraulthey ask to use the yahoo group first but I never figured how these groups work06:45
wolfspraulso let's see06:45
wolfspraulmaybe I will also bring it up on the group06:45
wpwrakthanks ! btw, yahoo groups suck endlessly. even if you get them to work, you're asked for re-authentication for way too many things.06:47
rafawpwrak: HA! firefox is smarter :) he wants konqueror to do the job while he is idle :)07:01
bartbes:P07:02
wpwrakhmm .. i have my mold for the counterweight. now, how do i cast ? make holes on the side and gravity cast ? or just fill the (flat) mold with a bit of molten solder and then close it with a flat surface, forcing the excess metal out ? tricky, tricky ...07:03
wpwraki like this page: http://hubpages.com/hub/Gravity-casting07:03
wpwrak"Metal Casting is more than just an excuse to play with molten metal [...]"07:03
bartbesno07:03
bartbesno it isn't07:03
wpwraktouche ! ;-)07:04
bartbesall hardware work is an excuse to play with cool stuff07:04
wpwrakrafa: yeah, let konqueror take the blame if anything goes wrong. that part was probably implemented by the mozilla.org legal department :)07:04
wpwrakbartbes: that's indeed pretty much how i see it :)07:05
bartbesand all software work is procrastinating07:06
bartbes(something else, of course)07:06
bartbeslike, life07:06
bartbeswho need life when you've got hardware and software?07:07
bartbes*needs07:07
wpwrakbartbes: indeed. spans all facets of that supposedly "real" life already :)07:08
lekernelNot everyone is going to be casting heavy pieces like engine parts or cast their own motorcycles.07:09
lekerneloh07:09
lekernelboring07:09
wpwraki think i'll try the pour and tap approach. quicker than setting up things for gravity casting07:09
lekernelpersonally I would love stuff like "cast your own electron microscope parts"07:09
wpwraklekernel: or space-faring killer robots :)07:09
bartbesskynet07:10
wpwraklekernel: yeah, what the world needs is a cheap DIY raster tunnel microscope :)07:10
lekernelor particle accelerator, FIB, LPCVD machine, or whatever similar cool stuff07:11
lekernelthat you can't buy easily07:11
wpwrakanyway, i'll cook some metal first. brb07:11
wpwraklekernel: yup, a pocket tevatron would be cool, too.07:11
lekernelhe07:12
lekernelno, seriously07:12
lekernelyou can't really do science experiments at home nowadays07:12
lekernelit's a shame07:12
lekernelthough the items I mentioned would rather belong in a hacklab07:13
lekernelwpwrak, about the tunnel microscope: http://sxm4.uni-muenster.de/stm-en/07:14
kristianpaullekernel: it depends what you call like science07:43
kristianpaulis true there all stuff lacks freatures like you said so its a hacklab dint mean i cant improve07:44
tuxbrainargh, the soft of the microscope is written VB for win arrrg(again)07:45
kristianpauli meant we're in the earlies of do science at home07:46
kristianpaulbbl07:46
wpwrakpour and tap doesn't seem to impress the metal much. pretty crappy results. pour and splash looks better, though. you also get a nice wave of molten led gushing out the mold and frozen in flight :)08:03
freespaceyou can do science experiemnts anywhere, you just can't do cutting edge science experiments08:58
freespacethe average man has better equipment than any of the early scientists08:58
freespaceand they without a doubt, did science08:58
kyakbut early scientists had better equipment than any of the average man of that time09:03
kyakand so it remains now09:04
kyak+noone can work alone now.. the time of bright individuals has gone09:04
freespacefor doing cutting edge experiments yes09:04
freespacescience experiments include ones which has been done09:05
freespacenot just limited to those requiring years of study to even understand the point of09:05
freespaceand some of them don't even require anything more than a good telescope and patience09:05
freespaceas for the time of the bright indivudal, that claim is dubious to me09:07
freespaceit assuming that wisdom of the masses can over come indivudal genius09:07
freespaceor make the same leaps of intutition09:07
kyakwho needs to look for a before unknown comet, when you can buy one? :)09:07
freespacewhy buy one when you can look for one :)09:07
kyakyeah, but your life might be just not enough to find it :)09:08
freespacethen surely that makes it more worthy than a piece of rock you buy :)09:08
freespaceanyways, i dislike the idea the average mn can not do science09:09
freespacescience is no more than the process of forming a hypothesis based on observation, then testing the hypothesis09:09
kyakindeed09:14
kyakthe problem is that sometimes you need an handrom collider to test the hypothesis09:15
freespaceand sometimes, you can just do thought experiments and change physics for ever :)09:40
kyakif you ever do something like this (as a private individual), please let me know ;)09:41
freespacei will do better, and let the world know :)09:43
freespacei am under no illusions i am that clever09:43
freespaceeinstein did it while working as a patent clerk09:43
freespaceand a private individual, so it can be done and has been done09:44
freespacei would wager most ppl are not in a position to do research science not because of their lack of equipment09:44
freespacebut their lack of education09:45
kyakthings has changed since that, but now we are starting to go circles in our discussion and i have to go home :)09:45
kyaksince that , i,e, since einstein09:45
freespacewhat has changed?09:45
freespaceok :)09:45
freespacegood evening :)09:45
freespaceassuming it is evning where you are09:46
kyaklet's discuss later if you wish :)09:46
kyakevening it is09:46
freespacei will be asleep later09:46
freespaceit is currently 14 minutes to midnight09:46
kyakgood night then09:46
freespacehave a good evening :)09:46
wolfspraulmidnight?09:54
wolfspraulare in you Australia?09:54
wolfspraulI'm also calling it a day in China, but it's not midnight yet :-)09:54
freespacemidnight in 3s09:57
freespaces/.$/m/09:57
freespaceyeah09:57
freespacesydney :)09:58
freespaceright, attempt to sleep before 2am #409:59
freespaceg'night09:59
wolfsprauln810:05
lekernel<freespace> the average man has better equipment than any of the early scientists10:30
lekernelwrong10:30
lekernelI don't think anyone here has ever liquefied air10:30
lekernelstill it has been done by early scientists in the late 19th century10:30
wpwraktuxbrain_away: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/cw/run1/cw168-installed.jpg10:31
lekernelalso, DIY triodes and other vacuum tubes is seldom heard of nowadays10:32
lekerneland it's not entirely because there are transistors... vacuum tubes have a few advantages over them typically for high power RF10:33
freespaceanyone here can more easily liqufiy air than any early scientist10:35
lekerneloh, really?10:35
wpwraktuxbrain_away: design weight 17.6725 g, measured weight 16.8 g. design thickness where thickest 2.4 mm, measured thickness about 2.6 mm. good enough.10:35
lekernelhow would you do that then?10:35
lekerneli'd be happy to hear, making liquid nitrogen is cool (literally ;) )10:36
freespacehave you ever operated a fridge?10:36
lekernelsure, but you're not going to liquefy air with a fridge compressor10:37
freespaceso how did the early scientists do it?10:37
wpwraklekernel: it all depends on your tolerances. e.g., it's easy to liquify a large percentage of really humid air :)10:37
lekernelwith much powerful compressors10:37
freespaceright, so first we need to get more powerful compressors10:37
lekernelfridge compressors are mass produced cheap industrial crap designed to fulfiil one function during a limited period of time10:37
freespacei wager the early scientsits couldn't hop down to the lcol hardware store and BUY one10:38
freespaceCarl von Linde liquidfied air in 189510:38
freespaceare you seriously suggesting the average modern man has INFERIOR equipment to what he had access to10:39
lekernelI don't think you can buy a compressor to liquefy air today either10:40
freespaceyes you can, fridges do it10:40
lekernelthey'll overwhelm you with paperwork "you're not a company" "you're not authorized to do that" etc.10:40
lekernelfrom what I've read, access to scientific hardware was much easier back then10:41
freespacei don't think it was so much access, more the fct they had to build it10:41
freespaceif you build it yourself, then access is retty good10:41
lekernelso, maybe big compressors for large cold rooms (ie industrial ones) might liquefy air10:41
lekernelbut not your average household fridge's compressor10:42
freespaceyour average household compressor liquifies fases10:42
freespace*gases10:42
lekernelit liquefies a very special gas which is super easy to liquefy10:42
freespaceso?10:42
lekernelI guess you can even do it with a bike pump10:42
lekernelair is a different thing10:43
freespacespecify a very specific gas we need to liquidfy then10:43
lekernela lot more pressure is needed10:43
freespaceor a mixture thereof10:43
freespaceall of this ignores the fact the average man can buy or ask for liquidfied air to do experiments with10:44
freespaceunlike the early scientists who had to make their own10:44
freespacejust think for a moment the kind of lenses one can order10:44
lekerneltried that, got rejected because they only ship to companies10:44
lekernelof course this can be worked around10:44
freespacethey are grounded to such preceision that newton would give his left testicls for10:44
freespaceyour problem then isn't that the average man doesn't have better access to equipment10:45
freespacebut the average man has to deal with more paper work :P10:45
lekernelsure, but that's still a problem that disconnects the average man from science10:45
freespaceno, it disconnects the average man from buying large compressors10:45
freespacewhat disconnects the average mn from science isn't equopment10:46
freespaceby far the biggest barrier to entry to science10:46
freespaceis lack of education10:46
lekernelof course, if you count what companies and industry have access too, we sure have better equipment than in 190010:46
freespacespecifically mathematics10:46
lekernelbut for what the average man can handle, I'm not so sure10:46
lekernelyeah, that's another one10:46
freespaceyou are only considering a very limited set of experiments10:46
freespaceif your interest is in astronomy10:47
freespacethen what you can buy for a few hundred dollars10:47
freespaceis astronomically better10:47
freespacepardon the pun10:47
freespaceby and large, modern science has moved forward by leaps and bounds10:47
freespacewhile science education hasn't10:47
freespacethat the modern man feels disconnected from science is a sad reflection of the state of science education10:48
lekernelyeah, I agree with you that education is a problem too10:48
lekernelbut the "leave that to the pros" culture is an obstacle too10:48
freespaceyou can always join the pros10:48
lekernelof course10:49
freespaceand in many ways, you have to. the same way we leave brain surgery to brain surgeons10:49
lekernelbut it requires a mental effort10:49
lekerneland a few social barriers to overcome10:49
lekernelplus once you've joined the pros, in many cases you usually have to do what your boss tells you to do10:49
freespacebut not all the time10:50
freespacein my limited experience, your supervisor will have some direction you hsould follow10:50
freespacelike in any other profession10:50
freespaceyou start off learning under your betters10:51
freespaceif only in experience10:51
freespacehrm, perhaps you meant the average person can't make a contribution to science10:52
freespacein the sense contribute new and useful data10:52
lekernelthat too10:53
lekerneland the difficulty of learning by yourself because a lot of devices are difficult to acquire10:53
freespacewhich i suppose has always been true for particle physics, but amartuer astronomers are doing well10:53
freespacethat is why you do to university10:53
freespacelearn with others, be taught by others, and work with equipment you won't otherwise have access to10:54
lekerneland imo there's a large cultural obstacle that's there without a really valid reason10:54
lekernelwhy should one be forbidden from ordering liquid nitrogen?10:54
lekernelor sulfuric acid?10:54
freespaceor TNT?10:54
freespacethey are all very dangerous materials10:55
zearor plutonium? Because it's potentially dangerous10:55
lekernelwell then you can also forbid cars10:55
lekernelthey can be used to run over people too10:55
freespacebut cars a necessary10:55
zearnot on such a scale10:55
freespacewe balance risk against the benifits10:55
freespaceif we take away knives say10:55
freespacelife would become very inconvenient10:55
freespaceso we trade off by allowing small knives to be frely available10:55
freespacebut the really big ones regulated (in australia)10:56
freespacethe average person generally speaing doesn't have a need for liquid nitrogen OR sulfuric acid10:56
freespaceyou can always form your own 1 man company10:56
freespaceand order it via proxy10:56
freespacecall it lekernel chemicals10:56
freespace:D10:56
lekernelthanks, I did that enough times already :)10:56
zearwhat some people do with everyday appliance things is enough to know allowing avarage person having nitrogen is dangerous10:56
freespacespeaking of liquid nitrogen10:57
freespaceattended a talk today by william d philip10:57
freespacenobel winner10:57
freespacehe did wonderful liquid nitrogen demos10:57
freespacehe splashed about a week's supply onto the stage10:57
freespaceat one point, he filled a plastic bottle about half way with liquid nitrogen10:58
freespacethen capped it10:58
freespacethen left it under a plastic create10:58
freespace*crate10:58
freespaceand kept going on with his talk10:58
freespaceabout 5min later10:58
freespaceHUGE BANG10:58
freespacethe thing exploded10:58
freespacepieces of plastic went everywhere10:58
freespacethe crate that was meant to contain the explosion10:58
freespacealso exploded10:58
lekernelI'm not even sure most average men would do such dangerous things should they easily buy ln210:59
freespaceit was great fun :D10:59
freespacethe average man does such dangerou things with a bottle of coke and mentos10:59
lekerneljust like most drivers don't run over people in the street10:59
lekernelthat isn't really dangerous10:59
freespaceit is if you were holding it at the time11:00
freespacei understand your frustration with regulation11:01
freespacebut in some ways, the ease of access to dangerous materials "back in the days" was because we didn't know they were dangerous11:01
freespacepeople were taking RADIUM treatments11:01
freespacegoing in a room filled with radon gas11:01
freespacebecause they thought it was better for them11:01
freespaceppl drank mercury11:01
lekerneloh, and others, like phosphorus matches... sure, that was a factor too11:01
freespaceto cure their illness11:02
lekernelbut imo today there's too much safety theatre going on11:02
lekerneland this disconnects people from science11:02
wpwraklekernel: of course, in the old times, you may not even have been among the small elite that had a rich man's ear and get their experiments sponsored ...11:03
freespacei doubt most ppl feel disconnected from science because they can't order dangerous chemicals11:03
freespacemost ppl i imagine, feel disconnected form science b/c they don't know what is going on11:04
wpwraklekernel: you'd just be a happy carpenter or so. completely untroubled by the difficulties of doing science :)11:04
lekernelfreespace, it's a factor too I think11:05
freespacei mean, ppl won't say they are disconnected from their $sportteam becuse they can't play on the field with them11:05
lekernelsafety + industrial secrets, ..11:06
freespace... unless they do11:06
Action: freespace isn't a sports fan11:06
lekernelthrowaway "no user serviceable parts inside" devices11:07
lekernelcars you need to send to the garage to change a light bulb because the manufacturer made it horribly difficult to access them (special screws etc.)11:08
lekerneletc. etc.11:08
lekernelthere are a plethora of factors11:08
freespacesome of that is progress11:08
freespaceit isn't like we all have smd rework stations at home11:08
freespaceand for all intents and purposes, modern electronics in the form factor we expect, really have no user servicable parts inside11:09
lekernelthat's where hacklabs should come into play imo11:09
freespaceit would be difficult to even user service the ben11:09
lekernelbut you won't deny that a significant part of it is just sociocultural, right?11:10
freespacemost of it is driven by profit11:10
freespaceis that "sociiocultural"?11:10
lekernelthat car manufacturer didn't _have_to_ put that wicked screw to open the light11:10
lekernelyeah, counts as sociocultural for me11:11
freespaceyou are saying thigns like that curtail curiosity or something?11:11
lekernelyes, that's exactly my point11:12
freespacebut you have the internet11:12
freespaceyou have libraries11:12
freespaceyou have thigns like arduinos11:12
freespacea curious person has far more resources a their disposal now than any other time in history11:12
lekernelarduino is so small and boring compared to what the industry does11:12
freespacethey are not restricted to breaking open the light in a badly made car11:13
freespacesee, i disagree11:13
wpwrakfreespace: (ben) you mean the mechanics ? that's largely a design problem. e.g., all the snap-in plastic is trouble, but a few screws would do just as well.11:13
lekernelplus it's just a proprietary chip with a nice wrapping11:13
freespacewho cares?11:14
lekernelif they had made the AVR themselves and explained how to do so, then it would have been interesting11:14
freespaceif you want to know how to build a cpu11:14
freespacegoogle and digikey and amazon has everything you need to know11:14
freespaceto build one from scratch using TTL level components11:14
freespaceor even to build one using transistors11:14
freespaceit would be a massive amount of effort11:15
freespacebut certainly the information isn't locked away11:15
lekernelagain, this approach doesn't cover a bastion of the industry: semiconductor manufacturing11:15
freespaceif a curiouse person wanted to know how semiconducors are made11:15
freespacethey can read about it11:15
freespaceas for practicing it, one imagines you need a degree11:15
freespacebefore someone lets you near such a machine11:15
freespaceyou can always build one yourself11:16
freespacei suppose11:16
freespacethe knowledge is there11:16
freespaceand if you live near a beach, the raw ingridents11:16
lekernelnot exactly there... most of it is secret11:16
freespacesure, bu the basics are the sme11:17
freespaceand their secrets just make their semiconductors different11:17
freespacebut they are still semiconductors11:17
lekernellook at all the effort the USA spent during the cold war to prevent the russian semiconductor industry from progressing11:17
lekerneleven though they did have the basics11:17
freespacewhat efforts exactly?11:17
lekernelvarious embargos basically11:18
freespacei am aware of how much russians were copying us chip designs11:18
freespacebut russia isn't exactly a country lacking in natural resources11:18
freespaceand i imagine rather more factors than embargos of sand and such accounted for the state of development of the russian semi-conductor industry11:19
freespacetheir economic model and goernment probably had mor of a say11:19
freespacegod i can't type when it is late11:19
lekernelif that development model was inherently screwed, why spend any effort on destroying it further?11:20
lekernelinstead of letting it die by itself11:20
freespacebecause both sides were pointing nukes at each other?11:21
freespaceand if your opponent had shittier electronics, that increases your chance of surviving a nuclear exchange11:21
freespacethe suituation was, i gather, fairly complicated :)11:21
freespaceit's been good talking to you lekernel :)11:22
freespacebut suddenly it is 1:22am11:22
freespaceand if i don't go now11:22
freespacei will have failed for the 4th time11:22
freespaceto sleep before 2am11:22
lekernelok, good night then11:22
freespaceg'night again!11:22
freespaceresume later if you wish :)11:22
kristofferwolfgang?12:48
wpwrakkristoffer: i think he's already counting sheep12:54
kristoffertypical :)12:57
wpwrakkristoffer: always the same with those wolves :)13:44
ezdagorSo there is absolutely no way to get a mouse working with the NN?13:49
zearthere are ways13:49
zearsience got it working on dingux, so i guess we can do it on the nanonote13:50
ezdagorAh.13:50
ezdagorI've tried various mouse emulators that remap the arrow keys to mouse movments... no luck.13:51
kristofferwpwrak, the wolfgangs I know are either geniuses, weirdos or both13:56
kristofferwolfgang... wake up15:49
wpwrakkristoffer: it's something like 4 am or 5 am in bejing :)15:53
kristofferwpwrak, my point exactly, he should already have woken up, eaten breakfeast and started to work..:P15:56
wpwrakkristoffer: like any of his hard-working countrymen :)15:56
tuxbrainwpwrak, kristoffer_ you are cruel...:P16:23
rafatuxbrain: that is because they are from Switzerland and Sweden16:27
tuxbrainhahahaha16:27
tuxbrainbtw any progress with theora16:27
tuxbrain?16:27
tuxbrainI have just recived the songs and the image material to work with :)16:28
rafatuxbrain: I was able to have audio and video fluent, bad quality, no sync16:28
tuxbrainmmm have you activate the sync option when encoding?16:28
bartbeswho needs sync anyway? :P16:29
rafatuxbrain: no idea, the problem looks when mplayer plays it. The sounds starts okey, but video no (no fluent), then after several seconds.. video goes well.16:30
bartbeshmm16:30
tuxbrainjust to create a little bit of envy I have to listen music of one of my fabourit group before they release the album at work :P16:30
bartbeshave you passed some options to help it play16:30
bartbeslet me look them up16:30
rafatuxbrain: let me try with the sync option. Anyway, to have that thing fluent I had to use the -v 0 -a 0 the worst quality for both, video and sound16:31
bartbesoh those are for AVD's :P16:31
bartbesbut I guess you need to tell it to skip frames16:31
tuxbrainmmmm and how they look?16:32
rafabartbes: I tried with mplayer autosync, framedrop, correct-pts, cache, etc..16:32
bartbes:(16:32
rafatuxbrain: we need more people testing different options and doing a proper test for encoding and player16:32
bartbesah well, as I said, who needs sync?16:33
rafawith documentation about things working and bad options16:33
rafatuxbrain: I also tested the example_player that libtheora brings with its source code. It seems a good player to play, just that it is just an example, you do not have control of it. You can use it with cat file.ogv | example_player .. and CTRL+C to stop16:35
tuxbrainand it plays fine?16:36
rafano fine, but looks promising16:37
rafaBecause it asked for SDL library I could hack a bit that.. but no a lot of free time these days.16:38
rafa(no time= because I am planning to travel to buy some CDRs in Barcelona :D)16:42
tuxbrainhey any one has any report about java in NanoNote? is even in available in any distro?18:25
mththere is a J2ME VM for the Dingoo, so it shouldn't be too hard to make it work on the NN as well18:28
mthor do you want J2SE?18:28
tuxbrainwell is to answer a possible costumer about the status due he had asked.18:29
mthI guess Debian would contain several VMs, although it's worth checking if they are also built for mipsel18:31
tuxbrainPersonally out of some shell utilities, and some simply games I don't think java fits really in our device... but well I will try to know what costumer intentions are18:32
mthif the Java program is reasonably efficient, the NN sound be plenty fast for Java18:33
mthwe used to run it on set top boxes with similar or lower specs18:34
tuxbrainmmm interesting18:35
mthhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Home_Platform18:35
rafatuxbrain: for jlime OpenEmbedded wiki documentation says that we need JamVM and Cacao as the virtual machine and GNU Classpath as the class library, to have a full J2SE environment. Because I do not much about java I just will try to build and upload those OE packages to repo :)18:52
tuxbraingreat thanks rafa :)18:53
tuxbrainand mth of course :)18:53
wpwraktuxbrain: have you seen, my heavy metal project is advancing, too :)19:36
wpwrakrafa: will you want some lead for your ben, too ?19:36
wpwrakrafa: looks a bit like this: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/cw/run1/cw168-installed.jpg19:37
wpwrakrafa: i still need to make one small change, though. the battery cover hits the counterweight in the middle, which is something it shouldn't do19:38
tuxbrainwpwrak: awesome job dude :) ... but... can you explain the objective of this? surelly you have explained before but I have missed it19:39
wpwrakrafa: also the crater landscape may be avoidable :)19:40
wpwraktuxbrain: well, take a ben, open it ... and watch it fall over :)19:40
wpwraktuxbrain: with this counterweight, it doesn't do that19:41
wpwraktuxbrain: or at least not so easily19:41
tuxbrainok :) understood I don't see this effect so often due It is allways attached to something :P19:44
wpwraktuxbrain: so you don't take it to bars and restaurants to show it off ?19:45
rafatuxbrain: for jlime OpenEmbedded wiki documentation says that we need JamVM and Cacao as the virtual machine and GNU Classpath as the class library, to have a full J2SE environment. Because I do not much about java I just will try to build and upload those OE packages to repo :)19:46
rafatuxbrain: sorry I just did up arrow enter :)19:46
rafawpwrak: let me check ..19:47
rafawpwrak: sorry I still do not understand what happens when you open it.. and what it would avoid?19:49
rafawpwrak: but looks nice :)19:49
rafawpwrak: ahh.. now I understood as well :D19:49
rafacool.. yes I always think that the screen is so heavy19:50
rafawpwrak: is it easy to put? :)19:50
tuxbrainwpwrak: yes I do of course, and yes only a slightly  touch on the screen if opened more than 90 degrees will make it turn, but due is thinked to be used with thumbs at two hands I have not pay too much attention to this :)19:51
tuxbrainbut you are right and you even have found a solution :) perfect!19:51
rafawpwrak: Nice work!... tuxbrain suggested William Wallace words.. and I saw that movie as well.. there he used lead from some lead soldier toys of his son to make lead wullets.. so as a plus, I could use this nn lead in case I need to make some bullets as well :P19:55
rafawpwrak: how did you do that exact part?19:56
tuxbrainrafa: are you not mixing Mel Gibson's movies? The patriot <->Braveheart , in middle ages.... bullets? :P19:58
tuxbrainwell it can be cannon bullets but they will the whole toy soldiers battalion :)19:59
wpwrakrafa: it will be very easy to install. i still need to add a few things, though. the plan is to put it as follows: open the ben, remove the main pcb, put a drop of glue or silicone, insert the counterweight, another drop of glue, put a plastic sheet above it, then put two strips of isolation tape on the ben's pcb, and assemble. done.19:59
tuxbrainthey will need19:59
rafatuxbrain: yes :D .. but now I do not remember if mel gibson did it as william wallace though20:00
wpwrakrafa: (bullets) yeah, it's about 16-17 g, that should be good for a few. "dual use ben". or "weaponized ben" ;-)20:00
tuxbrainwe have to include some non-warfare clause in our licences :P20:01
wpwrakrafa: i first took the geometry from one of the scans (ben-bottom-inside-500um)20:01
wpwrakrafa: then i broke the thing down into blocks with a rectangular footprint and a variable height. the height would always be the same along the x axis, but may change along the y axis.20:02
wpwrakrafa: then i wrote a script that defines these blocks and generates gnuplot output. with that, i could already get a first look.20:03
wpwrakrafa: then i changed it to also generate a solid in heekscad. with that, i could merge it with the scan, and see both together.20:04
wpwrakrafa: then i used heekscad and my mill to make a model of wax, to verify the geometry in the real device20:04
wpwrakrafa: finally, i again used heekscad to make a mold, and then i cast the solder (33% tin, 67% lead) with that mold20:05
rafawow... really great work with your toys :)20:05
wpwrakrafa: yeah, i used quite a lot of them ;-)20:05
wpwraknow i still need to paint the thingies, as a protection when handling them, and also as an isolation, in case something touches them20:06
wpwraki did a first tried with an acrylic coating (for electronics), and that worked so-so. that stuff it's also quite expensive. i tried a silicone coating, but that was a total failure. easy to apply, but doesn't isolate at all.20:07
wpwraknow i bought some paint and i'll see how that goes.20:07
rafatuxbrain: ah.. you are right.. he did two movies.. and the patriot was the one with those lead he used :)20:10
tuxbrainYes I can't remember what I have eat yesterday, or if I have shut the light off , but my brain is full of useless information as this one20:11
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Work around the problem of not being able to just put index.html into Qi, and http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/a339d6721:26
wpwrakkewl, it works :)21:26
qi-bot[commit] Andres Calderon: ddr address and data has been conected to the FPGA http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/5197a4721:50
dudesHi everyone!22:07
xdpiratesup dudes22:07
dudescan I build a standalone 3G modem?22:07
dudesthat stores info and communicates independently22:08
kristianpauldudes: build? well tes22:13
kristianpauls/tes/yes22:13
kristianpaulhow are you want to connect to the nanonote?22:13
kristianpaulor you mean a new project?22:13
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