#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2010-07-18

nebajotho/09:56
kristianpaulwb09:59
nebajothhow are you09:59
nebajothkristianpaul: what is your current nanonote project, if I may ask?10:02
kristianpaulnebajoth: oh sure10:04
kristianpauli'm working on GPS for the nanonote10:04
nebajothah yes10:04
nebajothhave you been participating in that mailing list thread then?10:04
kristianpaulyes10:04
nebajothI've been skimming it10:04
nebajothinterested, but not enough to read all of it10:05
kristianpauli see10:05
nebajothI saw you had some success10:05
kristianpaulwell that happens10:05
kristianpaulyup some basic so far10:05
nebajothbut I don't know enough to know how difficult the actual mod was10:05
kristianpaulbut gps proven to work10:05
nebajothfor exampkle10:05
nebajothyou soldered to the serial port points beneath the battery case somehow?10:05
nebajothtruthfully, this is a matter that DOES interest me10:06
nebajothI just had it further down my list10:06
nebajothpersonally, I'm struggling with just getting the UI "right"10:06
kristianpaulwell i not use those10:06
kristianpaulthere are some labeled TP4/510:06
kristianpaulwich are the same uart10:07
nebajothlocated where?10:07
nebajothdirectly on the chipset?10:07
kristianpaulnear to the SoC10:07
nebajothsorry, I've only opened mine once10:07
nebajothI'm a software d00d10:07
Action: nebajoth is pulling up a photo of NN internals10:08
kristianpaulnebajoth: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:IMG_0082.JPG10:09
nebajothah yes, they're all over the board10:09
nebajothdid you follow tuxbrain's arduino mod?10:10
kristianpaulno10:10
kristianpaulme no like it10:10
nebajothyou looked at the ben's schematics?10:10
nebajothdetermined the uart points10:10
nebajothwhat's on the other end of those wires?10:11
kristianpaulnote at all, Carlos did and tell us on the list10:11
nebajothhaha10:11
nebajothfair enough10:11
kristianpauluart10:11
nebajothopen source hardware is awesome10:11
kristianpaulsame as under battery i think10:11
kristianpaulyup10:11
nebajothI've determined that you can break out the ones under the battery easily enough10:11
nebajothwith very narrow gauge wire10:11
nebajoththe battery still rests neatly, and provides electrical charge to the unit10:12
nebajothwith 32" wire10:12
kristianpaulyes i'm looking for playstaion bus right now, i was told that is really tiny10:12
nebajothwhat kind of connector?10:12
nebajothI see10:12
kristianpaulwhere?10:12
nebajothon the UART end10:12
nebajothI can see the end soldered to the board10:13
nebajothwhat do you use on the other end to connect to the gps unit?10:13
kristianpaulnahjust a mess of wires10:13
nebajothhaha10:13
nebajothNEEDS MORE PLUG AND PLAY10:13
kristianpaulsure10:13
nebajothexcuse me10:13
kristianpauli need a smaller gps to try first10:13
nebajothI realize it is internet protocol not to use caps10:13
nebajothbut my other channel is a gaming clan channel10:14
kristianpauloh10:14
nebajothand sometimes I slip into ALL OUT BROADCAST MODE10:14
kristianpaul:)10:14
nebajothits not shouting, at least to my head10:14
nebajothits like10:14
nebajothcomputer voice10:14
kristianpauli think the next move is get a small and cheap gps to attach10:14
nebajothNEEDS MORE BATTERIES10:14
kristianpauli'll be fine if is small enought to fit inside10:14
nebajothI assume yours is non-small and non-cheap.10:15
nebajotharen't there SD GPS units?10:15
kristianpaulyeah?10:15
kristianpauldont know10:15
kristianpaulmine is  http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:IMG_1581.JPG10:15
nebajothrofl10:15
nebajothhttp://www.pocketgpsworld.com/reviews/globalsat-sdio-gps/globalsat-sd501-booster.jpg10:15
kristianpaulis not just gps board so is big10:15
kristianpauloh10:15
nebajothtoo big10:16
nebajothto fit inside10:16
kristianpaulyeah10:16
nebajothtoo big to fit into microsd10:16
nebajothbut funny looking anyway10:16
nebajothomfg10:17
nebajothguess what company you get to10:17
nebajothfirst google result10:17
nebajoth"gps sd card receiver"10:17
nebajotheffing spectec10:17
nebajothwith their effing wifi priced more than vehicle10:17
kristianpaulheh10:17
kristianpaulbut you know what is not bad idea use sdio maybe custom boars to attach gps10:18
nebajothoh snap10:18
nebajothwhat about10:18
kristianpaulah but we need jlime runnning from flash to do that btw rafa ;)10:18
nebajothpcmcia10:19
nebajothtoo big?10:19
nebajotheven if you take it apart?10:19
nebajothor compact flash10:19
kristianpaulbig indeed10:19
kristianpaulbbl10:22
nebajothit'd be so much easier to just connect serial to bluetooth10:25
kristianpaulnebajoth: not a bad idea13:02
kristianpaulnot using bluetook but maybe hoperf modules !13:03
kristianpaulwich i have some here13:03
kristianpaulahh but those are SPI, i still requirin other MCU..13:04
kristianpaulat least implement SPI by software13:06
kristianpaulbut it require 6 pins13:07
kristianpaulnot sure if there are gpio avaliable upto that number..13:07
emebkristianpaul: I was looking at the ben schematics and it appears there are about 5-6 pins free13:21
emebsome may actually be spi pins too...13:21
emeb(not just bitbang gpio)13:22
kristianpauloh13:29
kristianpaulemeb: wich pins?13:31
emebkristianpaul: don't remember now. That was a few weeks back.13:32
emebIIRC though there is a list on the wiki13:32
kristianpaulyes13:32
kristianpauli saw it before, but no confirmed wichones are avalible for wiring13:33
emebyep - some are hard to get to.13:33
Ornotermeskristianpaul: why not share SPI with the sd slot?13:34
emebcould require serious kernel code changes13:34
kristianpaulhmm yes13:35
Ornotermesprobably, but i woult think it would be a good thing to have another (internal) spi by default13:35
kristianpaulyes13:35
Ornotermesfor both network and memory card13:35
Ornotermesor what ever that uses spi :)13:36
kristianpaulhoperf :)13:36
kristianpaulis small i think it will fit, just need to be wired and sofware supported13:36
Ornotermeshow cheap is hoperf by the way?13:38
kristianpaul2.5usd per unit if oyu buy samples in china13:39
kristianpauli recommend you buy more that 20 to make shipping conpensate the costs13:40
kristianpaulat least you are in china ;)13:40
Ornotermesquite good, there is a company selleing uart radio modems for about 15USD13:42
Ornotermesbut they need 5V13:42
kristianpaulouch13:42
Ornotermesbut slip would be neat13:42
Ornotermeshttp://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fswechtrading.se%2Fzencart%2Findex.php%3Fmain_page%3Dproduct_info%26cPath%3D52%26products_id%3D614&sl=sv&tl=en13:43
Ornotermesthere is uart wifi modules too btw, but they are rather big and expencive13:47
kristianpaul:(13:48
Ornotermeshttp://lairdtech.thomasnet.com/item/wlan-radio-modules/s-802-11b-g-slip-wireless-lan-module-device-server/wismc03bi?13:53
Ornotermesi think those would cost around 100-150USD13:54
wpwrakOrnotermes: you could just add some cheap microcontroller to do a UART to SPI conversion14:03
Ornotermessure14:04
kristianpaulwpwrak: yes i tought that too, but it must be relly small14:07
kristianpaulmay be a atmel tiny or soemthing14:07
wpwrakooh ! i see on http://www.openmobilefree.net/?p=504 that xiangfu has managed to separate the LCM. whee !14:07
kristianpaulyes is quite simple14:07
kristianpauli think is harder the other case14:08
wpwrakkristianpaul: (uart to spi) there should be plenty of chips in a 4 mm qfn that can do this14:08
kristianpaulyeah just need searchi as always14:09
wpwrak(lcm) ah, how to you release the hinge ? do you have to open the display case for this ?14:11
Ornotermesmany avr tiny have USI(Universal Serial Interface), so they can't use uart and spi at the same time14:13
kristianpaul:/14:17
kristianpaulwpwrak: yes14:17
wpwrakOrnotermes: you can do the SPI just by bit-banging. if the MCU isn't doing anything else but copying between UART and SPI, it has plenty of time for that.14:22
wpwrakkristianpaul: aah ! so that's the secret ! thanks !14:23
Action: wpwrak grabs a knife14:23
kristianpaul:D14:25
kristianpaulwpwrak: there are some screws but you need the knife first, be carefull14:26
Ornotermeswpwrak: ofc :) i forget about bitbanging some times :P14:26
Action: kristianpaul reads about bitbanging14:27
emebthere's a bitbang SPI driver in kernel already - just tell it what pins to use and what backend to connect to14:28
Action: emeb has used spi on beagleboard & mini244014:28
kristianpauloh14:31
kristianpaulemeb: remenber the module name?14:31
Ornotermesspi_gpio if i remember it right14:32
kristianpaulman linux is so big and full of features :)14:32
emebdeep and wide.14:33
Ornotermesbtw, im trying to write a tetris game for ben in python+pygame14:45
wpwrakemeb: very good point. of course, that almost makes things too easy :)16:38
Action: emeb hasn't used the bitbang driver for anything except the /cs line16:42
emeband I use the spidev backend (frontend?)16:43
emebworks a treat16:43
wpwrakemeb: i played a bit with it for sdio. before finding the sdio interface bugs in the silicon that affected only one or two very specific revisions of the samsung 2442.16:45
wpwrakwell, about a month or two before finding these. it's not the kind of thing you look for in the first place ...16:45
Action: emeb hates undocumented silicon features16:47
emebI wonder if there's something wrong with SPI DMA on the s3c2440 - the spi driver doesn't use DMA and it's slooooow16:48
wpwrakemeb: there were various dma issues in the 244x series. not sure if this is one, though. some of the drivers are just a bit under-developed.17:02
emebwpwrak: makes sense.17:06
larscin the latest iteration of the driver there is dma support17:26
emeblarsc: what rev is that in?18:04
larscHEAD ;)18:06
emebguess I asked for that :P18:07
larsci don't know when it got in but 2.6.34 had support for it iirc18:07
emebok - .34 is a good start18:07
emebthanks18:08
emebgotta see if I can backport that to the .32 kernel that comes with the mini2440...18:10
emeb.34 has FIQ-based pseudo DMA as a config option, not real DMA18:15
gbraadwolfspraul: nice indication of #slowfi in action http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_OneBeep22:54
wolfspraulgbraad: hey22:54
wolfspraultuxbrain: you there?22:55
wolfspraulmust the middle of the night there, no?22:55
gbraadin europe ? yes, 5am22:55
wolfspraulgbraad: OneBeep is cool, nice link - thanks22:56
wolfspraulhow are things on your end?22:56
wolfspraulwhere is Fedora on NanoNote? t-shirts? etc. :-)22:56
gbraadstandard radio, also pushed it to jon.22:56
gbraadfedora on mips is at F13, on nanonote stalled now. still have issues with the build infra22:57
wolfspraulYanjun Luo is pretty cool on the cable, but we need to teach him the slow culture a bit :-)22:57
wolfspraulno email attachments, check it in in a nice repo, make sure author and license is all attributed correctly, and so on22:57
gbraadhave not been able to do the shirts due to budget of fedora22:57
gbraadexactly. I told him to use a repo, but not done yet.22:58
wolfspraulbut seems to be a really cool guy22:58
wolfspraulhe can use the qi projects server22:58
gbraadhe is... too bad for the arm project he does ;-)22:58
gbraadi had the same idea. but open source is still young in China22:58
wolfspraulI am planning to get some scripts going on that server that can auto-generate PDF schematics etc. for kicad files...22:59
gbraad(and misunderstood)22:59
wolfspraul(but not there yet)22:59
wolfspraulmisunderstood? you mean free software?22:59
wolfspraullet's meet with Yanjun asap22:59
gbraadhad some discussion with jon about the OSHW22:59
wolfspraulI want to give him some higher-level objectives and see whether he can take it.23:00
gbraadopen source in general is an issue in China. not completely understood. but already got in touch with some key people. have been very busy with this.23:00
gbraadseems like a good idea23:00
wolfspraulhe - good luck23:00
wolfsprauldon't try to educate china, my advice23:01
wolfspraulwaste of time - oldest culture (i.e. slowest/never in changing) - there's a reason...23:01
gbraadi don't educate. but learn and see how we can adopt23:01
wolfspraulwe can only use them, and offer our true advice and help if someone wants to really understand the free software culture23:01
wolfspraulthat's gonna be a 1 in a million type of person23:02
gbraadif you meet the right people, they are listening... and i did meet some of them. ;-)23:02
wolfspraulsure23:02
gbraadwolfspraul: what is your vision on the OSHW?23:05
gbraadseems milkymist endorsed it23:05
wolfspraulvision?23:05
gbraadhttp://freedomdefined.org/OSHW23:05
gbraadopinion23:05
gbraadin my sense it is weak!23:06
wolfspraulI'm a believer in the old IETF approach - implementation first, then standardization23:06
wolfspraulso that's what I do with copyleft hardware23:06
wolfsprauldoes that answer your question?23:06
wolfspraulI think the GPL v3 is a great license23:06
wolfspraulso is cc-by-sa23:06
wolfspraulafter that we have many details to learn and find out about in reality, when doing copyleft hardware, as we do23:07
wolfspraulsorry gotta run...23:08
gbraadno prob23:08
wolfspraulbbl23:08
gbraadslow connection, so hard to talk23:08
wolfsprauloshw v0.3 doc doesn't give me much/anything right now23:08
wolfspraulbut nice someone works, wish them good luck maybe they can come out with a strong and interesting document one day...23:08
gbraadi hope so, as this is weak23:09
gbraadsee ya23:09
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