#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2010-06-26

arctanxcompiling gfortran locally... this is going to take a while...01:26
bartbestuxbrain: no longer on the beach?06:40
sdschulzelekernel: Is MilkyMist downward-binary-compatible to LatticeMico32, BTW?09:46
lekernelsame instruction set but different soc peripherals09:51
mthlarsc: is the (M / N) in the PLL formula an integer or real division?10:20
larscinteger10:21
mthalso in the hardware?10:21
larsci would say10:21
mthfrom the description of how the hardware works, I think (Xin / N) * M would be closer to reality10:37
mthhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_synthesizer#Principle_of_PLL_synthesizers10:37
larschm10:49
larscis the value in sysfs different from what you'd expect it to be?10:50
larscin the aic section there are sample values of N, M and output frequency10:52
larscyou are right10:54
larsci wonder why they put the extra brackets in their formula10:55
larschm i wished there was some kind of mmc testkit which would emulate a mmc card, but be able to produce errors at will. so one could build a testsuite for a mmc driver10:59
qi-commitsLars-Peter Clausen: jz4740: clocks: Fix pll frequency rate formula http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b050ca111:05
qi-commitsMaarten ter Huurne: jz4740: clock: Fix value returned by clk_get_rate() for the "pll" clock. http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/eaec30a11:05
bartbesdid you just do the same thing?11:07
dptechhello I'd like how create usb_boot because I've usb schema with Data (D-) Data (D+) and Ground (GND) with in nanoNote TXD (transmit data) RXD (receive data)...11:11
larscbartbes: no11:12
dptechhello I'd like how create usb_boot because I've usb schema with Data (D-) Data (D+) and Ground (GND) with in nanoNote TXD (transmit data) RXD (receive data)...11:20
dptechNobody ? Ok, I'm using RS232 serial male connector...11:27
xiangfudptech: Hi , what you mean "create usbboot" ?11:37
dptechxiangfu: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Ben_nanonote_serial2.jpg11:44
dptechxiangfu: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/USB_BOOT_mode11:45
xiangfudptech:  you need a rs232 -- TTL converter to get the serial output.11:47
xiangfudptech: if you want boot to hardware-usbboot. just short the two usbboot pins then press the [RESET] hole.11:48
rafalarsc: I will do a pull of 2.6.34.. is there some issue to know ?11:52
rafalarsc: proper config for nn is in arch/mips/configs?11:53
larscrafa: it should work, config is in arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig11:55
rafalarsc: great, thanks a lot11:58
rafalarsc: I will let you know how it goes11:58
nebajothrofl11:59
nebajothI'm compiling a mud server on my NN.11:59
dptechxiangfu: Well, i see! If I understand, I can boot in usb with this method12:01
freespacenebajoth: what distro/compiler?12:06
nebajothdebian/gcc12:07
freespacecool12:07
nebajothI love having debian on here12:09
rafalarsc: short question: is arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig okey to use with MicroSD?. Have you tried?13:26
rafalarsc: arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig does not have SD set.. Does it work okey?.. I have had lot of problems with arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig before15:09
rafalarsc: that is why I am asking..15:09
rafa(work okey= if SD works okey with 2.6.34 and arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig config)15:10
larscrafa?15:35
rafayes man15:40
rafame here..15:40
rafalarsc: I built.. because no output on screen I can not say much. It does not work for me now.. I will try to realize (some day :P) which is the problem..15:41
rafalarsc: black screen, booting from SD15:41
rafalarsc: so I am not sure if it mounted rootfs, or where it finishes15:42
calamarzkeymouse working on my nn :)16:05
calamarznow I can play scummvm XD16:06
rafaHEY!.. we release a new v2 beta jlime version.. some braves? :)17:32
wolfspraulrafa: v2 already...!17:51
rafawolfspraul: yes, pure beta but nice :)17:57
rafawolfspraul: I sent an email, but it has not arrived yet it seems17:57
rafawolfspraul: we still use our 2.6.34 kernel which has a few problems and it is a little outdated.. I have not been able to use current git kernel.. it does not boot well for us. I also have not had time to report properly the problem, if there is a problem, I do not know. larsc sais that all is okey, so surely it is my fault.. but well,18:00
rafaI am not sure what to do next.. for now I was working hard on userland side. I will wait a while to try again current git kernel18:01
rafaour 2.6.34 kernel= kernel from qi git, but with our own .config and outdated18:02
rafalars said*18:02
wolfspraulrafa: you sent an email where? do the qi discussion or developer list?18:15
wolfsprauls/do/to/18:15
rafawolfspraul: both18:16
wolfspraulhmm18:16
rafawolfspraul: anyway, the beta v2 is the same that you have watched in the youtube vide.. with X and matchbox GUI18:20
wolfspraulrafa: I looked at the server a little. Seems the mail traffic is so high now that spam checking is the bottleneck.18:58
wolfspraulso your mails were temporarily rejected for a while...18:58
wolfspraulunfortunately spamassassing needs so much memory I cannot easily increase the number of processes, need to look into it some more18:58
wolfspraulthanks for letting me know, should be faster!18:58
urandom_i had some nice idea today: placing some trackpoint style device next to the speaker and then next to it two buttons, which could be used as mouse buttons but also for making the nanonote a good gaming device (mainly for retro games i think), that would be awesome but dont know if doable19:12
wolfspraulhe, yeah, good idea19:17
wolfspraulwe have all sorts of things written up here: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ya_NanoNote_Specs19:18
wolfspraulsee at the bottom "trackball like HTC Dream" etc.19:19
wolfspraulbut realistically, it will not happen in Ya19:19
wolfspraulour resources are extremely limited, and we focus them pretty exclusively on reducing the price of the device19:19
urandom_yeah i know, we already talked about it :P19:20
neil_wolfspraul: do you know if Ya will have USB host?  at least we could use a USB mouse then19:23
urandom_my usb mouse is bigger than my nano that will be look funny ;)19:24
rafawolfspraul: great.. I see the mail now ;)19:25
urandom_USB host has the highest priority neil_19:26
neil_urandom_: great.  I'd love to plug in my Wingman Extreme 3D.  that would look even funnier19:27
urandom_yeah usb host will be awesome! lots of new stuff to do with the ben19:29
max_posedonusb host 1.1 doesn't gives much opportunetes imho19:31
neil_max_posedon: should be good enough for a mouse and 802.1119:32
wolfspraulneil_: USB host is easy to add, and gives a lot of functionality from our free software perspective19:32
wolfsprauleasy = cheap19:32
neil_wolfspraul: music to my ears19:33
wolfspraulso whenever those things come together - 1) cheap 2) makes a lot of sense for free software, then it's high on the list19:33
mthany chance of internal wifi support?19:33
wolfspraulgotta run, Nelson waiting downstairs, sorry...19:33
max_posedonneil_, yes, but... I'm not sure that it will give you much19:33
wolfspraulmth: integrated wifi probably not19:33
wolfspraulwe'll see19:33
max_posedone.g. I just want attach ben to freerunner19:33
max_posedonit could be killer pair)19:33
wolfspraulI'd rather add an RF solution that is open to the PHY layer19:33
wolfsprauleven if that means in the first year nothing more than sending 'hello world' from one device to the next will work :-)19:34
wolfspraulbbl19:34
mthfor a portable device, it's useful to be interoperable with all the existing access points ;)19:34
urandom_but the RF solutions that are open arent used by anyone else :(19:34
urandom_i am not against using stuff that nobody else is using if it is good technology but i wonder if this hoperf stuff makes any sense19:36
wolfspraulmth: sorry had to go offline20:40
mthno problem20:41
wolfspraulso about Wi-Fi, well at least me personally I will probably try to keep it outside of the Ya NanoNote20:41
mthI typed this just after you left:20:41
wolfspraulbut we may be working on another product, wall computer, with integrated Wi-Fi20:41
mth<mth> for a portable device, it's useful to be interoperable with all the existing access points ;)20:41
wolfsprauldon't know really, it all depends on a lot of technology and what works and what doesn't20:41
wolfspraulof course that is useful20:41
wolfspraulI'm just not satisfied running a large black box that does all the intersting things20:43
mthif the device is aimed at hardware hackers, that's a valid point20:45
mthif it's aimed at software hackers that just want an internet connection to access their repository, it's a different story20:46
larscwell, the goal of the qi-project is to inovate in the area of open hardware20:47
wolfspraulan RF stack is not software?20:48
mthI don't really know enough of all layers involved in WiFi20:48
mthfor me personally, it would be sufficient if the device driver is open20:49
wolfspraulsure, you are not alone in saying that and it's understandable20:49
wolfspraulbelieve me, I'd say every other day or so someone looks at me with big eyes that try to tell me "are you stupid in not including Wi-Fi in this thing?"20:50
mthif I were a hardware hacker, I'd probably draw the boundaries differently :)20:50
mthbut there is always a black box somewhere, at least in the foreseeable future20:51
mthfor example, I don't have sources for the software in my cable modem20:51
wolfspraulok, one by one20:51
mthbut if I did, then I still wouldn't have access to my provider's routers etc20:51
wolfspraulI don't think a blackbox 'always' has to be there, especially not in the foreseeable future20:51
wolfspraula lot of pieces are in place, they just need to be put together, which is what we are working on20:52
wolfspraulwell, your provider's router is another thing, but for the devices you are using, there really is no need for black boxes, in a few years20:53
mththere is no technical need for black boxes, but even if we're moving to an open world (I hope so, but I'm not sure), the intertia will be huge20:53
mth*inertia20:54
wolfspraulhe, I would agree on the inertia, but that's why you need to start early :-)20:54
mtha lot of people don't really understand why openness is needed20:59
mthfor example, in the Netherlands voting machines are no longer allowed, but on the grounds that eavesdropping is possible, not because the votes are unverifiable21:00
mthto me, it seems rather pointless to vote in secret when you have no guarantee it will actually be counted21:00
mthso imo, they did the right thing for the wrong reason21:01
mthwell, the less important right reason, because secrecy of voting is also important21:01
urandom_why is secrecy important?21:02
mthto avoid intimidation as a way of getting more votes21:03
urandom_nah dont think that would work, "vote for us or we beat the crap out of you" isnt an democrativ sysem anyway21:06
mthit happens in countries that are in name democraties though21:07
urandom_yeah but then it doesnt mather if there is secrecy or if you can vote anyway, doesnt change something21:09
mthI think it does make a difference: if a group tries to take power by force, it will be clear that they have done so, instead of them pointing to fraudulent elections as an excuse21:10
urandom_also we dont have any democratic countries in the world if you go by greece definition (but then voting for people hasnt to do anythink with democracy at all)21:11
mthanyway, my point is that it will be difficult to convince people that they need open hardware when they still trust Facebook with all details of their social life21:13
urandom_so yeah maybe they look better with fake votes i agree21:13
urandom_my point was just that there is something already wrong when you need secrecy21:14
mthin an ideal world you could vote openly indeed, but I don't see it happening very soon21:15
urandom_i dont really understand the web 2.0 stuff, whats so cool about it, i never use it21:16
urandom_"omg i am so importand i need my own webblog and shit"21:16
mthwell, web 2.0 is a marketing term for web apps + sites build on user-generated content21:17
mthI do think web apps are useful21:17
mthand user generated content can be useful, but it all depends on the quality of that content21:17
mthsomething like github could be called web 2.021:17
mthnow everybody has the means to write their own newspaper, but very few people have both an interesting story to tell and the skills to tell it well21:19
urandom_well stuff like wikis, github and indypendant news are usefull and cool21:20
urandom_but there is so much shit now21:22
urandom_nobody knows how to use irc anymore21:23
urandom_booting jlime kernel from fat16 didnt work at all for me, tryed the whole day long, used ext2 instead and worked lol23:38
arctanxurandom_: it could be related to this recent commit to u-boot... http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-xburst/source/commit/ff43eecc8fd4179629712d83682707fed4ea37ba/23:41
arctanxas I think was pointed out by rafa on the list23:41
Action: arctanx is slowly downloading the new userland now23:42
urandom_ah ok, so http://jlime.com/mw4/index.php/Installation_nanonote has to be updated23:42
arctanxthe trick is to download their version of the u-boot23:43
arctanxmy current speculation is that they have a slightly older build23:43
urandom_yeah i did not use theire u-boot cause i already had the newest23:44
arctanxthat'd do it then23:44
arctanxthere is still the screen corruption on debian boot bug, so expect more churn in this area in the coming weeks23:45
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