#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2010-06-23

freespacenewbie007: look at the imgv source00:17
freespacepretty sure it does something like that00:17
freespaceit sohuld work, if you make res 320x240 and 32 bpp00:18
newbie007I found a pretty good example, I don't think it would be too difficult to hobble together a mouse and clickable icons00:21
kyakhm.. seems that building Busybox and uClibc with locale/UTF-8 is not really helpful00:27
kyaki have UCLIBC_HAS_LOCALE in uClibc config, everything related to locale/utf-8 activated in Busybox, and even CONFIG_ENABLE_LOCALE, just to --enable-nls in most builds00:28
kyakbut it doesn't work!00:28
newbie007I just noticed that at an extreme angle I can see the screen flicker00:33
newbie007I reflashed the device recentally, does anyone know the root password?00:34
newbie007duh I had to set it again00:40
kyakthe screen flickring can be seen at regular angle too00:44
kyakjust set the background to something other than black00:44
newbie007oh too bad00:54
newbie007I was going to play with a program I found sdl based I could make a menu with it00:55
newbie007with a mouse to boot00:55
newbie007I can't seem to ping anything outside of my network, on the Ethernet over USB wiki I got to the ping google part, and cannot ping it00:56
newbie007any ideas? I have fedora13 as a host OS00:57
kyaknewbie007: the Ethernet over USB on wiki is a very good manual01:21
kyakjust follow it exactly01:21
kyakand you should have no problems01:21
newbie007kyak: I've followed it verbatim01:38
newbie007I'm in the fedora room as well, they just suggested that I change the device's ip address01:39
freespacewhats your home's network subnet?01:41
newbie007freespace, checking..01:41
newbie007I have no idea..01:42
freespace/sbin/ifconfig -a01:42
freespaceon your desktop, see what network interfaces you have01:42
newbie007freespace: http://fpaste.org/hQe7/01:42
freespaceyou can ignore lo001:42
freespaceok, did you set the usb0 ip adddress?01:43
newbie007I did this command ifconfig usb0
freespacedid you do something similar on the nanonote?01:44
kyaknewbie007: from your Ben: cat /etc/resolv.conf; route -n01:44
newbie007someone in fedra said that my nanonote's ip address is out of range of my router01:44
kyakfrom your fedora: iptables -L -t nat01:45
newbie007nanonote: http://fpaste.org/6Ii0/01:45
kyaklet us see the ouput01:45
kyaklooks good at Ben's side01:46
newbie007fedora: http://fpaste.org/ytTZ/01:46
kyaklooks bad at fedora01:46
freespaceyeah, you don't have nat going01:46
kyakyou don't have NAT01:46
newbie007I'm not sure what that means01:46
kyakjust follow the wiki01:47
freespacealso cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward01:47
newbie007cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward   returned  101:47
freespaceNAT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation01:47
freespacewell that's setup at least01:48
newbie007I did the nat directions again, still cannot ping google01:49
newbie007I cannot ping the router either01:50
kyakiptables -L -t nat shows what?01:51
newbie007kyak: http://fpaste.org/1qWw/01:52
kyakfrom your ben, can you ping
kyakand from fedora, can you ping
newbie007fedora yes01:54
newbie007ben yes also01:54
kyakcan you ping from you ben? can you ping from fedora?01:54
newbie007fedora yes01:55
newbie007ben no01:55
newbie007the fedora folks thought I should change the ip address of the ben to a lower number 192.168.0.X01:58
kyakiptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -s -j MASQUERADE01:58
kyaklet's try specifing ip.. though it shouldn'e be the problem01:58
newbie007on the fedora box right?01:58
newbie007I did the iptables command, no change that I can tell01:59
kyaklet's see iptables -L -t filter01:59
kyakhell yes02:00
kyakiptables -F FORWARD02:01
newbie007thank you!!02:01
kyakstupid fedora02:01
kyaki might have a look where this rule came from, maybe shorewall or whatever is used in fedora as a frontend to iptables02:02
kyak*you might02:02
kyakREJECT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            reject-with icmp-host-prohibited02:02
kyakno, thank you, if you make this sdl thingie with mouse work :)02:04
newbie007is it possible to do a apt-get like command ?02:04
newbie007yeah it would be pretty sweet02:04
kyakopkg update, then opkg list | grep your_package02:05
newbie007sweet thanks!!02:05
wolfspraultuxbrain: on your holiday already?02:12
wolfspraulyou said some flickering fixes didn't make it into 2010-06-15, can you be more precise which fixes you meant? are there some unapplied patches somewhere?02:12
jluistuxbrain: Yesterday I did /your/ serial port  hardware mod. Do you need pictures?02:19
jluismy camera  was out of battery in the midle of the process02:20
wolfsprauljluis: if you have some good pics consider uploading them to the qi wiki02:23
jluiswolfspraul: I am goin to review them now and I will put them on the wiki02:24
wolfspraulbeautiful, thanks02:30
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: I see you're having fun in HK :-)02:31
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: don't you think the one NN not booting was just a depleted battery?02:34
DocScrutinizercouldn't think of many other possible causes (except maybe of water shorting some pins inside device, which evaporates while USB VBUS is applied :-P )02:36
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: hey there02:36
wolfspraulI think maybe the LCM connector or FPC cable has a problem02:36
wolfsprauldon't know, will analyze this device later...02:37
wolfspraulhappy to see you!02:37
wolfspraul(in irc)02:37
wolfspraulyes I had a good time in Hong Kong, and I keep learning, working, having fun02:37
wolfspraulgoing to Colombia tomorrow actually02:37
wolfspraulvery very excited02:37
DocScrutinizeryeah for the one you took out. But there was another one that needed some minutes until it boots02:37
wolfspraulah yes02:37
wolfspraulthat one02:37
wolfspraulyeah could be what you said02:37
wolfsprauldid you see the recent Milkymist One progress02:38
wolfspraulwe are on a roll there! :-)02:38
DocScrutinizeryou should make sure batteries are refresh-charged every 6 months02:38
wolfspraulgood point02:38
wolfspraulcan you reply on the list02:38
wolfspraulcheck this out02:38
wolfsprauldocumentation about the Milkymist One SMT02:38
DocScrutinizerseen that?02:39
DocScrutinizersome weeks ago?02:39
wolfspraulwe made 6 boards, so far it looks all 6 are at least workable, Sebastien can boot Linux already, ethernet works, audio works, I think some video works02:39
wolfspraulhe, OK, maybe showed you already02:39
wolfspraulbut it's even better now02:39
wolfspraullatest status is that boards are working02:39
wolfspraulLinux boots02:39
wolfspraulbringup in progress02:40
DocScrutinizerthe factory looks somewhat familiar :-D02:40
DocScrutinizerit isn't - by any incidence - some 50km away from TPE?02:40
wolfspraulwe will soon start to work on the Ya NanoNote electrical02:40
wolfspraulI will keep you updated on that one...02:41
DocScrutinizerfine :-)02:41
wolfspraulMinbo, not sure it's the same you mean02:41
DocScrutinizerwell, we visited one in the late days of OM02:41
wolfspraulwe sold about 800 Ben NanoNote now, not great not bad. project is moving.02:41
wolfspraullots of wonderful contributions showing up, so maybe there is hope actually :-)02:42
wolfspraulYa needs to be better than Ben! (and will)02:42
wolfspraulwhat are you up to now?02:42
DocScrutinizerfighting boredom and starvation02:43
wolfsprauldo you know what Dieter is doing?02:43
DocScrutinizernot really02:44
DocScrutinizerthough I had a look at his incredibly amazing work lately02:44
DocScrutinizerthe MOKO1102:44
DocScrutinizerrecovered source once more, before it vanishes to oblivion02:44
DocScrutinizeryou're going to use RF?02:45
wolfspraulhe, OK02:45
wolfspraulfor sure02:45
wolfsprauland it must be as free/open as possible02:45
wolfspraulwe start digging into this now02:45
wolfspraulevaluation phase02:45
emebwolfspraul: how did your trip to hoperf go?02:46
wolfspraulemeb: he, another 'notes text file' I need to format into a proper report02:46
wolfspraulI'm so swamped sorry it all takes a bit02:46
wolfspraulah, btw02:46
wolfspraulemeb - meet DocScrutinizer02:46
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer - meet emeb02:46
emebDocScrutinizer: greetings02:46
wolfspraulI think you are both EEs so I have big hopes in you guys in terms of this copyleft hardware project02:46
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: for now calypso and openBB is the most "free" BB chipset and FW I know of02:47
emebYep - I'm an EE - mostly a HW guy here - some kernel & userspace for support.02:47
DocScrutinizerhi eneb02:47
wolfspraulemeb: DocScrutinizer is one cool guy, experienced, big heart, absolutely wonderful person to hang out with and learn from02:47
wolfspraulyou know each other already?02:47
DocScrutinizerjust did a little bit for OM02:48
emebDon't think so.02:48
wolfspraulah OK, good02:48
wolfspraulso the intro makes sense :-)02:48
DocScrutinizeryes, pleased to meet you, emeb02:48
DocScrutinizerI'm Joerg02:48
emebDocScrutinizer: likewise. My 'resume': http://members.cox.net/ebrombaugh1/index.html02:48
wolfspraulI very much value DocScrutinizer's feedback, he is a real thinker and able to maintain a cool head when everybody around him goes crazy.02:49
wolfspraulwell it's true02:49
emebvaluable trait02:49
wolfsprauland it's of immense value if we want to be successful02:49
wolfspraulwe have to be a bit crazy, but not too much02:49
DocScrutinizerI think it's just my operation mode doesn't change - dunno if that's actually cool head ;-)02:49
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: so about RF, let's see02:50
wolfspraulstep by step we get there02:50
wolfspraulmy goal is for Ya NanoNote to come out in 'early 2011'02:50
wolfsprauland it should have some integrated RF02:50
wolfspraulwhether that's a regular wifi module in the end, or something more exciting and free like an ISM 433 mhz rf chip (hoperf for example), who knows02:50
DocScrutinizerwhat kinda RF we talk here?02:50
wolfspraulwell my preference is as free/open as possible (for what should be integrated)02:51
DocScrutinizeraah, ok02:51
wolfspraulso we have been looking a little at those hoperf modules, rfm22b02:51
wolfspraulWerner just wrote some feedback http://en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/developer/2010-June/003167.html02:52
DocScrutinizerhmm, think about a decent USB host with grunt on VBUS+5V, to plug in a 3G-stick02:52
emebwolfspraul: how do those guys do in the open/free dept?02:52
wolfspraullots of pros and cons of course02:52
wolfsprauloh sure, Ya will have a USB host02:52
wolfsprauland a good one!02:52
DocScrutinizerseen that02:52
emebseems like the guts of the HW would be rather closed/proprietary.02:52
wolfspraulhe he02:52
wolfspraullet's go for more open then!02:53
wolfspraulit's all a matter of who can help us02:53
wolfspraulwhich hw do you think is closed?02:53
wolfspraulthe hoperf modules are using Silicon Labs RF IC02:53
wolfspraulof course that Silicon Labs IC is proprietary02:53
emeborly? That's news.02:53
wolfspraulbut that's only the physical layer, very very thin02:53
DocScrutinizerfor WiFi the prism2 chipset is rather open I think. But that's just one I know of02:53
Action: emeb worked on prism3 @ intersil02:54
DocScrutinizerbeen thoroughly RE'd02:54
wolfspraulafaik wifi always has rather huge proprietary blobs implementing the protocol stack02:54
emebstill have the t-shirt. :)02:54
wolfspraulemeb: those hoperf modules (or rather silabs ics) are quite popular in hobbyist/free software circles02:54
wolfspraulethersex.de has support for them, for example02:54
emebwolfspraul: indeed.02:55
emebwolfspraul: might also consider the TI / CC parts02:55
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: about the 3G stick, I have heard they may need a lot of current and many usb host/on-the-go solutions can't actually work with them02:55
wolfspraulso that's definitely something we need to watch02:55
wolfspraulnot sure TI sells me just the RF chips (physical layer)02:56
wolfspraulI'm very careful about TI in general.02:56
wolfspraulthey try to drag you into their constantly changing and highly proprietary tricks. That's they model.02:56
wolfspraultheir model02:56
emebgood to know...02:56
DocScrutinizerthe TI uC's with builtin RF 433/866 are extremely cool02:57
emebwolfspraul: specifically looking at these parts from TI: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/cc1020.html02:59
emeball the former chipcon stuff for low-power rf tx/rx.02:59
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: which chip specifically?02:59
emebor these: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/cc2400.html03:00
wolfspraulsure I know them03:01
emebI'll take a closer look at the SI parts too...03:01
wolfspraulyes, good03:01
emeberr SiLabs..03:01
wolfspraulI am careful about TI.03:01
wolfspraulthey buy a tech company, then monetize the tech they bought by dragging it into their proprietary/patented universe03:02
wolfspraulso I rather build relationships with companies that are more manufacturing and less IP oriented03:02
emebso SiLabs is better behaved?03:03
wolfsprauldon't know :-)03:03
Action: emeb looks at http://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/EZRadio/Pages/Si442021.aspx03:03
wolfspraulI work with hoperf, their module maker03:04
wolfspraulof course I know it's still silabs ip...03:04
wolfspraulwe'll see. in the end we need to find something that is practical, not a strategic dead-end road, and will allow to build free software upon for years to come.03:04
DocScrutinizer[Fr 16. April 2010] [00:55:59] <DocScrutinizer> http://www.google.de/search?q=ez430-chronos03:04
DocScrutinizer[Fr 16. April 2010] [00:57:49] <DocScrutinizer> http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/ez430-chronos.html03:04
DocScrutinizer[Fr 16. April 2010] [01:06:24] <DocScrutinizer> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/cc430f6137.html03:05
emebah - looks more familiar: http://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/EZRadioPRO/Pages/Si44303132.aspx03:07
emebprolly guts of the hoperf rfm22b...03:07
emebhey guys - great chatting. Time for bed now.03:08
DocScrutinizertime for breakfast here03:09
DocScrutinizerbtw I found a severe design bug in N900. They routed an output of the LED controler chip to a SoC input, quite reasonable. Alas if you try to actually use this function, you'll fry the OMAP by feeding up to 4.2V(Vbat) to the 1V8 GPIO, as the LED controller isn't designed to drive lov voltage GPIO directly, and just outputs its VDD to the INT output via totem pole :-P03:24
DocScrutinizerthey better hadn't connected these two pins at all.03:24
DocScrutinizerthank god the driver Nokia has written for the LED controller LP5523 is so braindamaged it accidentally doesn't allow user to access this function on a high level API (well low level like /sys actually)03:26
DocScrutinizerto make things worse these 4V2 are fed to the whole IO_1V8 and thus to the whole system, via the GPIO clamp diods03:28
DocScrutinizercya, breakfast time now03:28
wolfspraulone question03:29
wolfspraulI was told the N900 has a neat system where they use the TRRS connector not only for stereo out and microphone in, but also video out03:29
wolfsprauldo you know this? do you like it?03:29
wolfspraulwe were thinking of doing that for the Ya NanoNote as well03:29
DocScrutinizerit's nice03:29
wolfspraulok :-)03:31
wolfspraulenjoy your breakfast...03:31
DocScrutinizerps: ...though nowadays probably a HDMI connector would be more like it. otoh Ya won't have the grunt to play videos, right?03:38
wolfspraulwhy not?03:40
wolfspraulyou can play videos on Ben, although not all the CPU has to offer (SIMD instructions, second core) is used in free software03:40
wolfspraulthese cpus are typically found in portable media players03:41
zearwolfspraul, say, the flickering you mention on the mailinglist..03:41
zearwas it occuring when in gmenu2x?03:42
zearbecause by default gmenu2x clocks to 200MHz03:42
zeari noticed that by setting the default clock to 336MHz the screen flickers less, or at least that's how it felt like03:42
wolfspraulI didn't do much testing03:46
wolfspraulI boot 2010-06-1503:46
wolfspraulyes it boots into gmenu2x03:46
wolfspraulwe'll get rid of this eventually, I know we are a bit short on resources and lots of people try to help on various angles. I'm not worried :-)03:46
wolfspraulso far our customers have been extremely understanding and supportive03:46
wolfspraulzear: if you have patches that can help with any of this, please send or apply/commit right away03:47
zearwolfspraul, i think it's due to gmenu2x using jz4740 cpu scaling code03:47
zearand that messes up with lcd timings03:47
zearor something like that03:47
wolfspraulyes, I read some long thread between lars and mth about clocks yesterday03:47
zearunfortunatelly i don't, but i bet larsc and mth are on it03:47
wolfspraulthey are03:47
wolfspraulI hope our customers understand.03:47
wolfspraulit's a big project...03:47
wolfspraulfew people...03:47
zearthough i also remember flickering issues on older images (without gmenu2x)03:48
zearso there could be two unrelated issues03:48
zearmaybe even cumulated in the latest image ;)03:48
wolfspraultoo much in motion03:48
wolfspraulif I ever get to it, my highest software priority is to write a test plan for the OpenWrt images03:48
wolfspraulat least we do know the hardware is good, which helps to write proper software for it03:48
wolfspraulif both hardware and software are unstable it's a real mess03:49
wolfspraulon my device flickering goes away (not totally but enough) after some application switches03:49
wolfspraulso for my selfish needs I have a workaround right now :-)03:50
wolfspraulzear: how is jlime coming along? will you guys meet?03:50
kyakzear: it's not related to gmenu2x03:50
zeari'm not sure about the meeting, there wasn't much news from filip (who organizes it), and also i might have exams in september, when we plan to meet03:51
zearwolfspraul, but i really hope we will meet03:51
kyaki've set the white background on my console (fbterm) and the flickering could be seen very well03:51
kyakand it is also seen on openwrt's logo after startup03:52
zearand btw, i got a free secondhand nintendo ds few days ago, and i had a quick look at the software it offers. Especially the programs to teach you languages03:52
zeari think that if there only was some company interested in it, nanonote could easily works as such a language teaching tool03:53
wolfspraulsure it could do many things03:53
zearthe apps i saw on ds use the built-in microphone to compare your prononciation with the one of the natives03:54
zearpretty cool stuff03:54
wolfspraulbut I think first the whole software 'environment' needs to get even better03:54
wolfspraulcompanies count every minute of their time03:54
zearif i wasn't all pro-gpl, nds would be my new fav toy ;)03:54
wolfsprauland you can develop pretty amazing software in pretty short time say for the iphone03:54
wolfspraulso once you think about these kinds of users that's how they will compare you03:54
wolfspraulwe need to continue steadily on our free software path, I am 100% convinved this will become a kickass platform03:55
zearbut even despite gp2x/wiz audience isn't very big, the company sells gp2x/wizes with the "vocamaster" software on the local korean market03:55
zearand i heard it sells very well03:55
zearit's a software to teach you english, or something03:55
wolfspraullike I said, we are getting closer03:55
wolfspraulbut not there yet03:55
wolfspraullook at the sw that runs on Ben today03:55
zeari know03:55
wolfspraulwhat can you do today?03:56
wolfspraulit's better than 5 months ago when we launched, for sure03:56
zearit's not ready for the casual user yet, i know03:56
wolfsprauland you see bits and pieces improving03:56
wolfspraulbut not there yet03:56
rejonneed more hackers :)03:56
zeari guess we won't be anywhere near that before the ya03:56
wolfspraulso let's try to stay the course...03:56
wolfspraulthey go together03:56
wolfspraulall Ben stuff gets carried forward03:56
zeari'm just sharing my ideas03:56
zearafter i saw how cool can a software on a handheld device be03:57
zearbut i agree first we need to have some core software03:57
zearlike a notepad, a calendar, a pim, alarm clock, music player, etc03:58
zeards comes with calendar/pim/alarm clock preinstalled, it's very handy03:58
wolfspraulGMU is a great start at a music player, I really like it04:02
wolfsprauldgClock can become an alarm clock (it's mostly dysfunctional right now though :-))04:02
wolfspraulwe are on the same page...04:02
zeardgclock is close to be an alarm clock, but we need to develop a way to put nn in suspend and to wake up at right time to ring the alarm04:09
zearbecause i don't think 8h battery time is enough to wake you up in the morning04:10
bartbesif you sleep less than 8h...04:17
zearbartbes, and have fully charged nn ;)04:22
bartbesor if you sleep 4h you only need it charged slightly more than half04:22
bartbesyou'll probably want more than 1 beep, so add an extra 10 mins or so04:23
Textmodebartbes: you bought a NN?04:53
bartbesTextmode: I have not05:46
bartbeshave you?05:46
Textmodebartbes: yes.05:58
bartbesyou have? I thought you bought a dingoo05:58
Textmodebartbes: I have a dingoo (with dingux), a Wiz, and a Nanonote05:59
Textmodenight all05:59
bartbesI don't have the money for one of them05:59
bartbesyou rich bastard!05:59
bartbesnight Textmode05:59
Textmodebartbes: apprently I'm considered povety line...06:00
kyaknow i have to gogole what Wiz is06:06
wolfspraulbartbes: if you don't have the money, what else could you contribute to our project?06:12
bartbesI was only directed to this project by urandom_, because I am the main dev of LÖVE06:13
wolfspraulhehe, what is that? (googling)06:13
bartbesdon't google :P06:13
wolfspraulhey not bad, congratulations!06:15
wolfspraulso can this run on the NanoNote? can we get it into openwrt?06:17
bartbesit probably can't run in it's current state06:17
bartbesbut the nn came up when discussing uLove, a project to define standards for ports06:17
wolfspraulneeds too much memory?06:17
bartbesI guess it lacks some deps06:18
bartbesbut I guess Textmode tried06:18
wolfspraullet us know what deps are missing, how we can help...06:19
wolfspraullooks like a really nice project06:19
bartbeswell I don't know :P06:19
wolfspraulof course I'm a GPL license fan, but still it's a detail the big picture matters and this is a beautiful project you have there...06:20
bartbeszlib is gpl compatible..06:20
bartbesless restrictive though06:20
wolfspraulsure I know06:20
wolfspraullet's see whether Textmode can post some more problems he ran into06:20
bartbesand I was just lurking...06:21
bartbesyou know Textmode just left for the night, right?06:21
wolfspraulnight? where are you guys?06:22
bartbes*he* is in australia06:22
bartbes12:00 < Textmode> night.06:22
bartbesright here, in this channel06:22
bartbeshe is the one I told I didn't have the money..06:22
wolfspraulah Australia, OK06:24
wolfspraulwell first we need to understand more of the missing dependencies06:24
wolfspraulthen go from there06:24
bartbeswell, I can list the deps, if that helps06:25
bartbesbut I can also list the deps if we limit it to uLove06:25
wolfspraulif you are interested, really don't have the money, but want to port stuff to the Ben, maybe we can loan one to you06:25
wolfspraulsure listing the deps helps06:25
bartbesI'm not even sure I'm worth it.. ;P06:26
wolfspraulbuying would be better anyway, there pretty much are no free Nanos and we are all sharing in in various ways06:26
wolfspraulbut let's focus on the dependencies06:26
wolfspraullisting them is a good start06:26
bartbesokay, PhysicsFS06:27
bartbesSDL, but I heard you got that covered06:27
bartbesopengl (though not really needed for uLove)06:27
bartbesvorbis, DevIL or maybe png directly06:27
bartbesand that are the deps for uLove really06:28
bartbeslooking at this it almost seems easy :P06:30
wolfspraulbartbes: I added an entry here: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_Software_Status#Blue_sky06:32
wolfspraulneed to add some more dependencies, have to rush out real quick, u do it if you can otherwise me when I'm back...06:33
bartbesforgot lua :P06:33
bartbeswolfspraul: added the deps, if you need anything else just ask06:40
bartbesit's not like I have something to do anyway :P06:41
wolfspraullua is included already07:05
bartbesI noticed07:05
wolfspraulI update it a little07:07
wolfspraulso let's see, at least it's written up07:07
bartbesI suspect physfs just builds though07:08
wolfspraulyeah but missing is missing. needs a package in openwrt etc.07:09
bartbesdo you guys have an emulator? or some settings for a vim?07:12
nebajothyou can use qemu07:56
nebajothto emulate mipsel07:56
mthqemu-jz, specifically07:56
nebajothwoop woop07:56
mthdoes it support all hardware necessary to run the NN images?07:56
nebajothdunno about the sound and whatnot07:57
nebajothit should run07:57
nebajoththis is on my todo list of things to check07:57
mthyou certainly need to run the latest kernel, otherwise it will crash when accessing registers using the wrong width07:57
mthI tried running Dingux on it and that required quite a few changes07:57
nebajothdid you document them?07:57
mthnot yet, I'm planning to fork the git and then make nice patches of them07:58
mthbut if you want to test, I can make a diff07:58
mthone thing I added is SD support07:59
nebajothyeah, if you don't mind07:59
nebajothI'd love a diff07:59
mthbut I think it's broken, since it often hangs while loading07:59
mthprobably an interrupt gets lost07:59
mthI modified the definition of the pavo board to be like the A320; the right thing to do would be to add a separate board instead08:02
mthqemu aborts if a register is accessed with the wrong width, while the real hardware doesn't seem to care about that08:04
mthI found several mismatches in the drivers that way08:04
mthand larsc fixed them all08:05
mththat's why you need a recent kernel (2.6.34)08:05
mththe A320 is similar to the BNN in hardware08:06
mthin fact the BNN should be easier to emulate, since the rootfs is in the NAND, while Dingux has it on the SD card08:06
mthand the A320 uses the SLCD controller which is unsupported in qemu-jz, while the BNN uses the LCD controller which is supported in qemu-jz08:07
rafatuxbrain: the theme that you have seen is the next jlime desktop.. I will try to release it today or tomorrow.. lot of nice stuff. Ah, btw, mplayer and snes9x works nice in 320x240.. the problem with my tests were when I had my nn usb plugged, there is something to check there, kernel gets crazy with events/irq when plugged09:08
freespacei am sold09:10
rafafreespace: you are OLD09:10
rafalike tuxbrain09:11
zearrafa, you're old too, buddy ;P09:15
rafawhere is my gun?...09:15
freespacesif i am OLD09:17
freespacei am merely old09:17
rafazear: now, checking where I put the M16...09:18
rafawejp: hey, you there?.. I would like to ask you something (I am trying to build gmu for pc and for jlime, but I get an error)..09:31
wejprafa, hey, yes i'm here09:31
rafawejp: let me show you a pastebin if you can check it..09:31
rafawejp: http://debian.pastebin.com/zXe4aSyV09:32
rafaI am not sure if the mpg123 version is not okey for gmu09:33
wejpthe latest version of mpg123 should work just fine, but as it tells you there, its configuration is not okay. you should check wether you have that large file support enabled or disabled09:34
rafawejp: it is just the latest mpg123 that debian has I guess... and it is installed there since a while ago..09:36
rafalet me check if debian has a newer version09:36
wejpwhich version are you using?09:36
rafalet me check..09:36
wejpit doesn't look like it is a problem with the version though09:37
wejpas i said, it is a mismatch with the large file support configuration09:37
rafawell, perhaps mpg123 debian package maintainer does not configure it ?09:37
rafaah.. okey09:37
bartbesI had that problem before09:38
bartbesif the lib uses lfs all its names end with _6409:38
bartbeslet me look up the fix09:38
wejpi think a while ago the default for that configuration changed, so maybe the debian people just used the default, which changed09:38
wejpso now large file support is enabled by default, while it previously wasn't09:39
rafadebian has a newer version, updated mine now . libmpg123-dev_1.12.1-2_i386.deb09:41
bartbesthe actual fix is to add a define09:41
rafawejp: now all built okey it seems09:41
bartbes_FILE_OFFSET_BITS 6409:41
wejpgood :)09:42
bartbeswhy do I feel ignored?09:42
wejpbartbes, because it works now ;)09:42
bartbesin case you ever do get the error again, _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=6409:43
rafabartbes: I will ignore you until the new error appears09:43
wejpanyway, large file support is nice and all, but isn't really needed for mp3 files09:43
rafathanks man.. let me save that, because I will try to port it to jlime09:43
wejpi have never seen such huge mp3 files09:43
rafathanks both09:43
bartbeswell if you just write an mp3 header then dd a lot of /dev/urandom in a file you probably get a huge mp3 file :P09:44
bartbeswho knows, maybe a future user of your program loves white noise09:44
wejpwell even without large file support you could have a signle mp3 file with 320 kbit/s that has a playtime of more than 1700 hours ^^09:45
rafacool for trips09:46
wejpi guess that should be enough for most people ;)09:46
bartbes320 kbit/s? I use 320 Mbit/ms!09:47
wejpoh, while talking about large audio files, some of you might be interested in the fact that the next gmu version will be able to resume playback. so you can shutdown gmu while playing and it will continue where you left last time when you start gmu again09:48
rafawejp: he.. nanonote.mk has the openwrt toolchain path.. grrrr09:49
zearwejp, that's cool, i use to listen to 40min podcasts09:55
rafawejp: cool, it built for jlime ;)09:56
rafanow I need to learn how to use it ..09:56
wejpit is not that difficult to use09:57
wejpbtw, the next version will also have a little introduction screen explaining the most important functions and their button mappings09:57
wejpfor now you need to check the README.txt file which explains almost everything ^^09:58
rafawejp: great.. I will try to use the libsdl-* packages of our feed09:59
rafawejp: perhaps you already know, but anyway, newest libsdl let you rotate on fb, so other devices with odd screens (like freerunner : 480x640) could use your sdl app rotated on fb ;)10:02
wejpthat's what i was wondering about such devices. are those screens actually running in 640x480 mode instead of 480x640, so one has to rotate it?10:04
rafain freerunner you have fb as 480x640, so when your sdl app tries to set video as 640x480 will fail..10:04
rafabut with newest libsdl libs you can set a variable in shell10:05
wejpah ok, i see, but gmu can actually run in almsot any screen resolution so 480x640 would be just fine10:05
rafaso libsdl rotates the fb displays10:05
rafaand then you do not need to modify your code to run in 640x48010:05
wejpit is just a matter of setting the right resoultion, the theme engine of gmu can use any arbitrary resolution10:06
wejpon the pc you can even resize the window of gmu as you like10:06
rafawejp: but at init.. gmu tries any resolution?.. I mean, can I try to run gmu in 240x320 for example?10:07
wejpcurrently you need to tell gmu at compile time which resolution to use, but you can tell it to use any resolution you want to10:08
wejpi guess there is no point in letting the user choose the resolution at runtime on most devices10:08
wejpbut if this could be useful, it could easily be added10:08
wejpi have defined the initial resolution in the hardware specific header files, for the nanonote this is hw_nanonote.h located in the src directory10:10
rafathe new rotation feature is useful for displays rotated, like freerunner. You have a lot of games which work in 320x240 or 640x480, freerunner has 480x640. You would not like to compile all the games again to set the proper freerunner res.10:11
rafaand if the user is using a nn he should know a bit about resolutions and stuff like that, or he will feel frustrated soon :)10:12
wejpbut using resolutions other than 320x240 on the nanonote is not that useful, if possible at all ;)10:13
rafawejp: it seems that my keymap is different than openwrt10:18
wejpdo you use a different kernel?10:19
wejpit all depends on how the kernel maps the buttons of the keyboard to their keycodes10:20
wejpbut you can easily change those mappings with gmu, you don't even need to recompile gmu for doing that10:21
rafawejp: modifying nanonote.keymap file?10:22
wejprafa: gmuinput.nanonote.conf10:23
wolfspraulwejp: sorry for my slow brain, I think I only recently realized that you are the author of GMU?10:24
wejpwolfspraul, yes that is right :)10:25
wolfspraulit takes so much time for important news to sink into my brain, scary10:25
wolfspraulwell just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for this app10:25
wejpno problem ;)10:25
wolfspraulit's the #1 most useful app on Ben NanoNote right now10:25
wolfspraulI hope you find the energy and encouragement to continue...10:25
wolfsprauland support of course10:25
wolfspraulmy only tidbit of feedback is that I had a little trouble finding the <alt> and <tab> keys10:26
wolfspraulthere is no indicator for them, or at least I didn't see it10:26
wolfspraulbut once I found them the whole UI became pretty clear10:26
wejpthanks, i'm glad you like it :)10:26
wejpyeah, i'll continue working on gmu. actually there will be a new version soon10:26
wejpthe next version comes with a little introduction screen that explains the most important functions and their buttons mapping10:27
wejponce you get to know the mapping, it should be pretty easy to use gmu :)10:27
wolfspraulI like how the bottom line explains pretty much everything10:27
wolfspraullike I said only tab and alt were not intuitive to me10:28
wejpand if you don't like the button mappings you can also easily change everything through the config files10:28
wejpyeah :)10:29
rafawejp: in gmuinput.nanonote.conf.. what should I change? the keycode?. For example, that file has this line:11:09
rafaWhat shoud I change?. The 274 number? so it match with the proper code of down key in jlime?11:09
wejprafa, yes, if the keycodes on your kernel do not match these values, you could change them there11:11
wejpit would probably be a better idea to change the keycodes on the kernel instead, otherwise you would need to change that in other applications also, that you want to port from openwrt11:11
rafawejp: no, kernel is like kernel is.. better if you have it untouched.. it is because kernel in jlime is 2.6.34 perhaps, and kernel in openwrt nn is 2.6.32, but I am not sure why it is different.11:12
rafawejp: but,no worries, we do not need to port many apps from openwrt.. we have aroudn 20000 packages from OE in our repo :)11:13
rafaand we will use always X, so SDL apps which use SDLK_RETURN will be ENTER in any kernel11:14
wejpok :)11:14
rafa(if we have X properly configured, of course)11:14
kristianpauli wonder hwo may acme procesors are made in china11:29
kristianpauleven usefull running a non-mmu system and just uclinux11:30
rafawejp: wolfspraul : sorry for the question, is not gmu a mp3 player?.. I ask because when running I do not see the ogg or other formats files in the default file browser, and I also ask if the openwrt version has mp3 removed..11:35
rafaperhaps I do not know how to use it well, sorry about.. I am learning ;)11:36
wejpthe version of gmu that comes with the nanonote does not include a mp3 decoder11:36
rafawejp: okey, but I do not see *.ogg files neither :(11:36
rafaperhaps I do not have the decoder?11:36
wejpall decoders of gmu are implemented as plugins so one can easily include only some of the available decoders11:36
kristianpaulrafa: it plays11:36
kristianpauljust mp3 codec is not installed11:36
rafakristianpaul: yes, but I want to play ogg files11:37
kristianpaulrafa: i do11:37
rafaand I do not know how to see those11:37
wejpif you do not see ogg files, the decoder for these files is missing. gmu shows only those files in the file browser which it can decode11:37
wejpto check which decoders you have loaded open the program info11:37
rafaaha.. reading..11:38
rafawejp: btw, my keycodes are different but the keys work :P.. perhaps because I run it on X?11:39
wejphm, maybe11:39
rafawejp: sorry, i feel like an idiot today :).. I see in decoders/ :11:42
rafabut ALT+A shows me that just wavpack and musepack are the decoders11:42
rafais not vorbis the ogg decoder?11:42
wejpok, but what does the program infor tell you?11:43
wejpeven if there are those decoders it might be possible that gmu was unable to load them, because the actual libraries were missing11:43
rafaI am too lost.. and I do not find that detail in README.txt file11:43
wejpyes, vorbis.so is the ogg vorbis decoder plugin11:43
wejpjust like i said, it should be Alt+A11:44
wejpor whatever your meta key is mapped to11:44
rafaJlime$ ldd vorbis.so  | grep found libvorbisidec.so.1 => not found11:44
wejpif you press the meta key, gmu tells you which button to press to open the "About" screen11:44
rafalibvorbisidec.so.1 not found11:44
wejpyeah of course you need that file11:44
rafaalt+a show me that just wav and musepack were loaded..11:45
rafalet me install the missing libraries..11:45
wejpso the libraries for the other decoders are missing on your system11:45
rafakristianpaul: I built it manually11:45
kristianpauloh cheers11:45
rafaand I do not did a proper ipk package yet11:46
rafawith dependences11:46
rafaI am just testing it right now11:46
rafaand learning how to use11:46
rafakristianpaul: the current gmu binaries will not work with jlime surely, that is why I built it11:46
kristianpaulhand ^11:46
kristianpauloh you jlime devel i remenber11:46
kristianpauljlime is oe based?11:47
kristianpaulor openwrt?11:47
kristianpauloh men good read that :)11:48
rafacheck a screenshot, it is different now, but the idea for our next beta release is the same (X+wm) : http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/3085.jpg11:48
kristianpaulX server?11:48
bartbesbtw, on the software page I see something about X being too big11:48
rafakristianpaul: yes11:48
bartbeswell, nvm then11:49
rafabartbes: which page?11:49
bartbesgreat timing there11:49
kristianpaulis nto heavy eating memory and cpu?11:49
rafakristianpaul: no.. x11:49
bartbes"having a real Xserver (propably Xorg) running - might be a bit hard with having just 32MB of RAM within the Ben NanoNote "11:49
rafawe have been using X + icewm (xfbdev) with jornadas for many years11:49
kristianpaulso i can run easillt gtk ?11:49
rafawe (jlime) do linux distros for jornadas, which has just 16MB of ram11:49
rafaand slower CPU11:49
rafakristianpaul: you can run gtk 1, gtk 2, qt, sdl, whatever..11:50
rafaall the python +sdl/gtk stuff11:50
kristianpaulcan i run jlime from microsd?11:50
rafayou ONLY can run jlime from microsd card right now11:50
rafaI will release the new version today or tomorrow, with X+WM+and lot of fun stuff (video players, emators, etc..)11:51
kristianpaulthere are gcc stuff avaliable to installl?11:52
kristianpauli dont like cross compile for silly apps11:52
rafakristianpaul: yes, the repo has around 15000 packages, and we will upload around 5000 more soon. You have all the GCC family packages there11:53
kristianpauli was thinking move to debian cause if that11:53
kristianpaulbut i need something simplee and emdebbed11:53
kristianpaulas soon as resolder my T4 port and asseble the nano i'll get the images11:54
kristianpaulhope to night11:54
rafakristianpaul: jlime has been devoping linux for HP jornadas for many years. We use X, and those machines has just 133Mhz cpu and 16MB of ram.. (and a tiny screen as well) so we know which applications to use ;)11:55
kristianpaulrafa: i will follow you indeed :)11:58
kristianpaulrafa: there is big comunity in argentina?11:58
kristianpauli have friedns here with nano11:59
kristianpaulbut not english spearks11:59
kristianpaulactually iwas asking for documetnacion in spanish witht the first question12:00
kristianpauloh nv12:02
kristianpaulcheking website right now12:02
methril_workkristianpaul: you could translate the documentation in spanish12:11
methril_workit is also a qi-hardware-es ml12:12
kristianpaulah yes i remmenber12:13
methril_worklet's move, spanish Qi community!! ;)12:13
rafakristianpaul: me here, sorry12:48
rafakristianpaul: no big community here I guess, for the numbers, we just are two guys with nn here in Argentina, and I do not know who is that guy :)12:49
rafabut, if you have friends with nn I could the whole jlime documentation in spanish12:49
kyaki would like to know how many Bens were shipped to Russia :)13:48
kyakcurrently it seems that i have zaro friends!13:49
zearkyak, same here in poland ;P13:52
bartbeshi urandom_14:00
qwebirc11952anyone know how to change the console font to 80x25?15:32
bartbesthe font?15:32
bartbesyou're sure you don't mean size?15:32
Textmodeqwebirc11952: I believe its buried in the kernel compile time config options.15:33
qwebirc11952well, i'd like it to display 80 colums and 25 lines.15:33
bartbeswell, I only know how it works in normal desktop linuxes15:33
TextmodeI also believe its a craptacular pixel font that can be considered barely readable on a normal LCD.15:33
TextmodeI'd hate to even contemplate what it looks like on the NN's staggered pixel LCD.15:34
qwebirc11952i don't like the 40 colums by 19  lines15:34
qwebirc11952and I can't figure out how to make X run a WM.15:35
qwebirc11952I get a blank screen every time15:35
qwebirc11952with a mouse arrow15:35
Textmodetrue, but I'd recommend picking something more readable than the 80x25 pixel font :P15:35
qwebirc11952like what, though?15:36
bartbesqwebirc11952: well maybe you're seeing the wm, but just no desktop, menu, etc15:36
bartbesmost of the times those are separate programs15:36
qwebirc11952hmm that could be15:36
Textmodeyeah, the standard X desktop is a combination of programs working together.15:36
qwebirc11952i tried starting matchbox.. again, blank screen15:36
qwebirc11952i noticed there is no /etc/X11/xorg.conf and I can't figure out how to make one15:37
qwebirc11952i'm using the "debian-lenny.ubi" BTW15:37
TextmodeX provides basic screen management, the WM provide window decorations and basic window orginisation, the DE provides Standard menus and desktop, etc, etc.15:38
TextmodeI think X stopped requireing a default Xconf a few versions back.15:38
qwebirc11952i know how X works.. maybe I should try editing the ~/.xinitrc15:38
Textmodeso most distros stopped supplying them.15:38
Textmodethat would of been my next suggestion :P15:39
qwebirc11952ah. I see15:39
qwebirc11952i'm compiling nano right now, because I don't like VI's behavior15:40
Textmodesolution: don't use Vi15:41
nebajothy halo thar15:43
qwebirc11952it's the only editor I found on the system, though.. maybe there are others, but none of the well-known ones at least15:43
Textmodetheres joe, and nano15:44
Textmodeand no, i'm not fond of either :P15:44
qwebirc11952not on my machine15:45
qwebirc11952ok.. just found a nano .deb15:46
Textmodeoh right, debian.15:48
sdschulzeqwebirc11952: Yes, you must reconfigure your kernel for changing the font size.16:08
Textmodeunless you use fbterm, or something.16:08
sdschulzeIt's not *that* hard...16:09
bartbessdschulze: no vga boot option equivalent?16:09
sdschulzebartbes: That would require you to reconfigure uboot.16:10
sdschulzenot sure if that's easier16:10
nebajothyou can unpack a deb easy enough16:23
nebajothput the binary on your install16:23
nebajothjust make sure the libraries its dynamically linked to are available16:24
nebajothand fbterm rocks16:24
freespaceto get 80x25 you need a font that is 4x1016:31
freespaceif you can find a .psf font of that size, loadfont from busybox should let you use it16:34
nebajoth4 pixels by 10 pixels?16:35
nebajoththat would be illegible16:35
freespacewell, almost16:35
nebajoththe offset lcd matric is problem enough16:35
freespacegmu seems to do a good job16:35
mthlarsc: now that sg_miter is used to iterate over the buffers, can max_seg_size be increased beyond PAGE_SIZE?16:35
freespaceyeah true, forgot about that16:35
freespacegmu seems to be using a 5x or 6x font16:36
max_posedon(hi!) smallest misc font that X have - 4x6 (look at your /usr/share/fonts/misc/ )16:37
freespaceis it a psf max_posedon?16:37
max_posedon4x6-ISO8859-13.pcf, you mean pcf, yes?16:37
max_posedonbut I suggest smth like 6x10 to be more readable16:38
freespacei configured my kernel for 8x816:38
freespacei think i do mean psf... hang on16:39
larscmth: yes. i though i already changed it back16:39
freespaceyeah i did mean psf16:39
freespacethough, pcf appears to be a bitmap font as well16:39
freespacei tried to convert some nice tt fonts into psf w/o much lucky due to basic difference in the nature of the fonts16:40
qi-commitsLars-Peter Clausen: Revert "jz4740-mmc: Limit max_seg_size to PAGE_SIZE" http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/47bce8d16:41
freespaceand back to sleep16:42
Action: freespace was working the world cup16:42
max_posedonls -la /usr/share/consolefonts16:42
max_posedonalso I think some tools can convert them16:44
bartbesfreespace: I don't want to know what you do with the world cup.. :P16:44
freespacefontforge or something16:44
freespacei forgot i started that page JUST for the font question :P16:44
freespacei think the one right after that should be "how do i get fbterm"16:45
freespacefollowed by "how do i get doom"16:46
freespace(vi would be before that,but it _already_ comes with vi, how awesome)16:46
bartbesdoom in vim?16:46
freespacevim is not emacs, so no16:47
bartbesno vim is better than emacs16:47
bartbescue editor war16:47
freespacenow let me bravely run away from the eamcs users, so good night!16:47
urandom_do we even have an emacs openwrt port? just seen some debian user running emacs16:48
max_posedonDoes debian on nano glibc or uclibc based?16:50
max_posedons/nano/Ben Nanonote/16:50
kristianpaulmax_posedon: i guess is glibc17:53
kristianpaululibc is for openwrt surelly17:54
max_posedonI would like to say, that uclibc is for embedded, not for some distro17:55
max_posedonI just was interested in.17:55
kristianpauli think thatw why emdebian exists18:03
rafahello, somebody using X (on nn) debian people?18:22
mthlarsc: would it make sense to use enums for the clock array indices? that may make it more readable than literal numbers21:19
newbie007hi, I'm playing around with creating a gui with a mouse and icons for fun. I'm using SDL I do not have a program that I have on my desktop which is required by make "sdl-config" I also do not have and probablly need libsdl-dev. Can anyone point me in the right direction ?21:39
mthare you compiling on the NN?21:41
newbie007yes I was trying to21:48
newbie007I also tried to move the executalbe over after it was compiled21:48
newbie007however it was compiled on a 64bit amd running fedora13 so...21:48
newbie007I think the recommeded approach is to put debian on it and then "port" it over21:51
mththere are different approaches that are all valid21:52
mthyou can compile on the device itself, then you need the development package, which will include sdl-config as well21:52
mthor you can cross compile, in that case you need a cross compiler (mipsel-linux-gcc) and the headers matching the installed libraries21:52
mthas far as I know, openwrt uses cross compilation21:53
newbie007ah thanks, I think I'd rather compile on the device21:53
newbie007how do I get the development package?21:53
Action: emeb would also like to do native compiles.21:54
emebI've looked and there don't appear to be any installable packages for gcc & other support apps21:54
mthemeb: I don't know if there are for openwrt, but for Debian there certainly are21:55
emebmth: yep - I was looking through the openwrt list, not debian.21:56
mthemeb: you could build gcc for mipsel-linux host + target on a PC22:01
mthbut it's not a simple process22:02
qi-commitsXiangfu Liu: remove uboot-for-xbboot.bin and zimage.bin, for now we don't need those file for end user. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b862fca22:06
qi-commitsXiangfu Liu: Merge branch 'xburst' of projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-xburst into xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/1f8cf8c22:06
qi-commitsXiangfu Liu: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-xburst into xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/806883a22:06
emebmth: I was considering that, but I think you're right it would be a PITA22:06
newbie007is it possible to just copy some openwrt files over ?22:10
mthover to where?22:11
mth(and from where?)22:11
newbie007mth: I don't exaclt know but I was thinking  some libsdl-dev file and whatever else people might need22:12
mthamd64 and mipsel are completely different CPU architectures, so binaries won't mix22:13
newbie007yeah I didn't figure it would, I almost didn't mention that I tried it22:14
mthyou could try to put debian mipsel binaries on openwrt, but it won't work unless you have all dependencies installed, including glibc22:14
mthyou could do that inside a directory using chroot22:15
mthdo not put glibc in the actual system root or openwrt will break22:15
newbie007I lost you, you mean on a debian host ?22:15
mthno, on the NN, but I think it's too difficult to pull off unless you're very experienced with Linux22:16
mththere is a big risk of breaking the OS if you don't know what you're doing22:16
newbie007I don't know what I'm doing but willing to learn22:17
newbie007what about a compiler flag of some sort?22:17
newbie007it must be possible to target a specific architechure22:17
mththe easiest ways are either installing Debian on the NN or making your project cross compile with openwrt22:17
qi-commitshcg: Add support for Marvell 88W8686 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/856613822:17
qi-commitsjow: [netfilter] package TPROXY target and module infrastructure http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/86b9c1d22:17
kristianpaulok flashing nano, lets see what's new :O23:19
--- Thu Jun 24 201000:00

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