#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2010-06-22

wolfspraulsure, great00:00
wolfspraultoo bad that webirc guy is gone, I hope he can unbrick his Nano too...00:00
neil_I'll see if I can make a first attempt on updating that wiki page00:00
nebajothwoot neil_++00:00
freespacewolfspraul: i finally got a legible captcha, so account created :)00:02
wolfspraulI promised you math captcha yesterday00:02
freespaceyou probably have more pressing issues :)00:02
wolfspraulI'm at -1 day now in terms of 'just in time delivery'00:02
wolfspraulno no, need to get this done00:02
wolfspraullowering the barrier of entry for contributions is my #100:02
wolfspraulit's the only chance we have to ever get this technology to a real user friendly level00:03
neil_it was pretty bad.  I had to try three times before I got lucky with one of the CAPTCHAs00:03
wolfspraulnebajoth: neil_ maybe someone should contact the ubifs/mtd-utils/ubi-utils folks and point them to the NanoNote00:07
wolfspraulcould be a quite interesting development device, with 2.6.34 running etc.00:07
wolfspraulI'm not sure what other devices they are mostly working with though, maybe others are even better...00:07
nebajothI'll do it00:08
neil_doesn't hurt to let them know about the NN though00:08
wolfspraulor they are all Nokia guys and work on Nokia gear :-)00:08
nebajothadding to my todo.txt on my NN00:08
wolfspraulI think I remember someone said Nokia donated ubifs to the free software world00:08
freespacethe wiki is mediawiki yeah?00:14
neil_does the wiki support hierarchical pages like /wiki/Updating_Ben_NanoNote_software/Booting_from_SD ?00:14
freespacenvm, it is :)00:14
wolfspraulneil_: that beagleboard page pointed out earlier says to use flash_eraseall. I just tried it and it works. so that's better than giving the block count manually.00:18
freespacewolfspraul: you should import the mediawiki help pages00:18
neil_freespace: +1 to that idea00:19
wolfspraulhow? can I give anyone admin or root access to help?00:19
freespacewell, i can import them00:19
wolfspraulI love that mediawiki setup actually :-)00:19
neil_wolfspraul: ok, will put that in the wiki.  what's the command line?00:19
freespaceby copy-pasta'ing the content from mediawiki00:19
wolfspraulfreespace: let me first make your account an admin account, OK?00:19
freespacebut that's like doing a manual walk of the entire help heirachy...00:20
wolfspraulmaybe it helps you here and there00:20
wolfspraulneil_: the line is "flash_eraseall /dev/mtd1"00:20
freespacei figure there is a way for you to do it automagically00:20
freespaceif there isn't, i will do it manually :)00:20
neil_wolfspraul: thanks00:20
wolfspraulfreespace: whether you like it or not, I just turned you into an admin/bureaucrat in the wiki00:23
wolfspraulneil_: what is your wiki account name?00:23
neil_wolfspraul: unclouded00:23
freespacei am now part of the system i worked against?00:23
wolfspraulthe accounts you mean?00:24
wolfspraulI work on easier anonymous edits next.00:24
wolfspraulneil_: also changed to admin/bureaucrat00:24
wolfspraulI am also very liberal with root access to the Qi server, for people who are able to and want to help with the Mediawiki server-side installation. but let's do step by step.00:24
urandom_wolfspraul should i report not working packages just to http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-nanonote/issues/ ? i feel there might be lot of them00:29
urandom_maybe its time for the test plan :P00:30
wolfspraulurandom_: report them there, no problem00:31
wolfspraulyou can just make one issue and add packages to it00:31
wolfspraulwe have no hierarchy, so if everybody waits for someone to step up and introduce the great scheme by which everything is run, it will never happen00:32
wolfspraulinstead, I think we should just start in different places. wiki forums, wiki pages, mailing list, indefero issue tracker00:32
wolfspraulthen people can come forward and organize the mess :-)00:32
wolfspraulbottom up00:32
wolfspraulso just throw it in there00:33
wolfspraulI guarantee you all data on the Qi servers is dealt with carefully and will eventually be addressed00:33
wolfspraulonly that the 'eventually' can be as far out as someone steps up to do it00:33
wolfspraulbut if we don't even write up, the process cannot start00:33
wolfspraulurandom_: freespace some important links about the wiki/MediaWiki00:49
wolfspraulserver setup is here: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_setup00:50
wolfspraulhere's how you see which MediaWiki and extensions are installed: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Special:Version00:50
wolfsprauland here is a test of some of our extensions (can be used after upgrades): http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Qi:MediaWiki00:51
wolfsprauljust fyi...00:51
urandom_bah its alread 07:07 in the morning here, i really should change my timezone01:08
wolfspraulI will shutdown apache for a minute or so while I update mediawiki & extensions...01:24
wolfspraulany complaints? any final words?01:24
urandom_time to get some sleep :P01:25
wolfspraulyeah :-)01:25
wolfspraul7.30 is crazy01:25
wolfspraulthere he goes01:25
wolfspraulok I'll do the upgrade...01:25
neil_I'm editing but a minute or so is no drama. my browser doesn't lose what I've written on forms when the server goes away01:28
wolfspraulsorry too late01:30
neil_no worries.  I didn't even notice01:31
wolfspraulneil_: puh01:34
wolfsprauldamage is done01:34
wolfspraulhomepage still comes up01:34
wolfspraulI will check a bit maybe a few things here or there are broken...01:35
wolfspraullet me know if you see anything01:35
neil_looks good from here01:35
wolfspraulfreespace: finally, math captcha! :-)02:07
wolfspraultry it out...02:07
freespaceok :)02:07
rejon5+5 = 1102:07
wolfspraulthat's why they think math captcha is discriminating...02:08
wolfspraulit's funny I can configure the math, maximum number, which operators, how many operations02:09
freespacelet me finish impoting the first level of help pages02:09
wolfspraulsure sure, take your time02:09
wolfspraulit took me weeks to respond to people saying that they cannot decipher the f... captchas...02:09
freespaceeasy enough :)02:12
freespaceclicked email new password >.<02:12
neil_wolfspraul: Hopefully I didn't miss too much out: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Updating_Ben_NanoNote_software02:32
wolfspraulspotted a typo, fixing...02:34
wolfspraulflash_eraseall /dev/mtd2 (should be 3)02:34
wolfsprauldo you think you have to run flash_eraseall before ubiformat?02:34
wolfspraulI think in terms of the advice we give "least likely" etc. that's not very clear, but we have to start, so it's good02:35
neil_wolfspraul: no idea, sorry02:35
wolfspraulthere is another way coming that will use xbboot to load an initramfs directly into ram and execute it there02:35
wolfspraulthat avoids usbboot entirely and then we can even flash u-boot from inside a Linux kernel02:36
wolfspraulbut anyway, this is a great start! thanks for writing it all up!02:36
wolfspraulmaybe we can put the uImage into /boot/uImage right away in future releases (in .tar.gz). then we can simplify the steps in the documentation.02:37
wolfspraulvery good start, thanks!02:37
wolfspraulthis is your first day you have a Nano? amazing!02:38
neil_I would have been lost at sea without all the help I've had today, so thank you again.  my Nano would no still be bricked right now without everyone's help02:51
neil_s/no //02:52
mthlarsc: in jz4740_clock_init, jz4740_clock_divided_clks members are accessed by fixed indices, but it seems that the indices are off (spi is actually at index 2 and i2s at index 1)06:01
mthlarsc: I'm trying to make the cpufreq code behave itself better, but I think some bigger changes are needed to make that possible07:10
mthone thing is that desired frequencies are rounded to a possible divider value07:11
mthif the PLL freq changes, a new divider is needed07:11
mthbut if every time the new divider is computed based on the rounded freq from the old divider, the frequency might end up at an undesired value after a lot of PLL freq changes07:12
mthso I think it's necessary to save the desired freq somewhere and always recompute the divider from the desired freq07:12
mthanother thing is that the CPM spec says that for non-main clocks, the clock should be stopped while changing the divider07:13
mthbut is it safe to just stop the clock at any point in time?07:14
mthit would not be safe if the device driver is doing things at the same time07:14
mthor even if the device is active but not inside the driver: for example a DMA transfer to the SLCD requires the pixel clock to be operational07:15
mthI don't know whether turning off the clock will simply stall the DMA transfer or cause data loss07:15
larscwell, but that would probably only be one frame07:16
mthnot if we ever implement deferred I/O for the SLCD07:17
mthand if at some point we switch to DMA for MMC, even small data loss is a big problem07:18
mthalso, I would like to try automatic cpu frequency scaling (based on system load)07:19
mthif that is operational, frequency switches would occur far more often than when only gmenu2x changes frequencies when launching something07:19
wolfspraulmth: since you seem to be another XBurst kernel hacker, are you interested in a 4760 EVB?07:19
wolfspraulthat's the new CPU Ingenic is working on, should show up in devices next year07:20
mthwolfspraul: not right now: I've got a long enough TODO list for Dingoo at the moment07:20
mthit does sound interesting, so maybe later07:20
wolfspraulI don't have them available yet, but trying to understand whom I should ask beyond the guys I already know like Lars etc.07:21
mthI like kernel hacking, but I want to get Dingux in shape before moving to a next target07:22
wolfspraulmth: ok great, if you are interested let me know. indeed no rush on this, it's all moving forward.07:22
wolfsprauloh totally07:22
wolfspraulmth: do you have your own website somewhere? is this open-dingux?07:23
larscmth: well there are notifier callbacks for frequency changes, so it's possible to do additional work in a device driver07:23
wolfspraulhow do you build the distro? openwrt/oe/something else?07:23
mthwolfspraul: currently all I have is http://github.com/mthuurne/opendingux-kernel07:24
mthCongoZombie is looking into using openwrt for the rootfs, but he got stuck trying to get the kernel headers from git07:24
larscmth: so you would stop all transfers on an prechange event und resume them on a postchange07:24
mthlarsc: is a prechange notifier also allowed to wait?07:26
larscthats a good question. but i'll guess it has to07:26
larscgrepping through the kernel tree right now07:26
mthin the case of an SLCD transfer, it would be an option to abort it, but that might not be possible for all devices07:27
larscfor mmc it shouldn't matter if we disable the clock07:28
larscthe current transfer would pause07:28
mthdon't registers become unreachable when the clock is off?07:28
larscbut we should probably disable irqs anyway while changing the freqency07:30
mthbut what if the driver is reading from the FIFO when the clock is turned off?07:32
larscwhy should it do that?07:32
mthit will wait for the interrupt to get the next block of data, but if turning off the clock disables the FIFO reg, the last bytes of the previous block could be corrupted07:32
larschm, maybe you just found the reason for the mmc corruption on dingux kernels...07:34
mthyou mean booboo's kernel can turn off the clock too early?07:35
larscwell, it is at least switching frequencies07:35
mthbooboo's kernel uses userspace as the default governor07:37
mthso it won't switch frequencies at random moments in time07:37
larscbut gmenu2x does, right?07:38
mthyes, and it even bypasses the kernel completely when switching freqs07:39
mththat code is evil and I'll remove it soon07:39
mthbut booboo could reproduce the corruption from telnet without using gmenu2x07:41
larscI'm wondering if we disable the dma clock. will it simply pause transfers?07:41
mthalso, joyrider ported gmenu2x to Dingux in the beginning of 2010, before that only dmenu was used and dmenu does not mess with the CPU frequency07:42
mthmaybe; if so things will be a lot easier if we use DMA for all transfers07:43
mthwe'd still have to make sure device register writes and DMA setup only happens when the respective clocks are enabled though07:44
mthhow long are timeouts on typical operations? if we disable a transfer for too long, it might also cause problems07:44
mthmaybe not a problem if there is an automatic retry07:45
larscwhat operations?07:46
mthfor example, MMC reads/writes07:53
larscyou won't trigger those while chaging the freq07:54
mthwith SLCD there is no timeout, since there is no transaction: every pixel written simply updates the current write position in the GRAM07:54
larscthe mmc timeout is currently set to 5 seconds07:55
mthah, that won't be a problem indeed07:55
mthis it feasible to use EXT as the USB clock source?07:55
mththat would make it immune to PLL freq changes07:55
mthactually, what is the relation between the UHC clock and the UDC clock?08:02
mthhmm, ohci-jz4740.c does not have a copyright header08:04
mthah, ohci-jz4740.c is never compiled08:17
larscmth: thats all fixed in the upstream version08:36
Action: calamarz enjoys w3m-image on the nn08:38
larscuhc ist usb host udc ist usb device08:40
larscmth: btw there is a flag to latch all clock divider changes08:41
mthI saw that, but it only applies to the main clocks, not to the others08:42
larscuhc needs 48Mhz08:42
mtheh, it does apply to all clocks, but still the spec says the non-main clocks should be stopped before changing freq08:43
mthit's UDC that can select EXT as a clock source08:45
mthI have no docs for UDC though, so I have no idea which clock ranges it can handle08:46
larscwell 12 Mhz is USB slow speed or whatever, right?08:46
larscok. slow is 3.5 Mhz, 12 is full08:48
mthit's called "full speed", but that means full speed for USB 1.008:48
mthsupplying it with 480 MHz is not feasible, I think, since the CPU might overheat at that point08:49
mthor can hi-speed work with speeds between 12 and 480 MHz as well?08:49
wejpit is not MHz but MBit08:51
larscand with one bit per tick that becomes MHz08:52
mthor could it have a FIFO that has a separate clock for putting bits on the buts?08:52
wejpstill the cpu does not needd to run at 480 MHz08:53
wejpit not like the cpu is putting one bit per clock cylce through the usb interface08:53
mthdoes anyone have documentation of the UDC part?08:54
larsci'll send it to you when i'm home08:54
larschm, the same udc core is used in some other uc for which the documentation is freely available on the net, but i don't remember its name :/08:56
mthmy PC says the USB ethernet device is 480 mbit/s08:58
larscbut there is nothing in there about clocks :.09:06
mthlarsc: that returns a data sheet for the SM502, but it looks very different from what the UDC driver is doing09:17
mthfor example max packet size is written as-is to a 16-bit register by the UDC driver, while the SM502 PDF says it is stored in an 8-bit register where the maximum size is 8 times the value in the register09:18
larschm. ok. but it is at least very similar09:24
mthyes, but not for the purpose of figuring out what the device clock is used for exactly09:34
larscgiven the fact that it is susposed to be able to run at high speed i would suspect that it has it's own pll for the bitclk09:38
larsceven the gmenu2x code did not adjust the udc clock09:40
larscactually i can't find any code at all that touches the udc clock. not even usbboot09:42
larscthe default configuration is indeed to use the ext clk09:45
mthhmm, clock.c also selects ext clk09:45
mthfor UHC the clock source is PLL, but not for UDC09:46
mthexcept if the boot loader selects PLL, since then jz4740_clock_init updates the clock parent09:50
mthso if we want to rely on the fact that the UDC clock source is EXT, it would be safer to set the clock source rather than adopt what the boot loader set, imo09:51
larscimo we shouldn't mess with it09:52
larscone problem i see is, that some drivers might want to roundup and some rounddown their clockfrequencies09:55
larscfor example the lcd driver would roundup while the mmc driver whould rounddown09:55
mthisn't that dealt with by having the round routine as one of the ops of the clock?09:55
larscwell, but if we wan't to adjust the clock speed when the ppl frequency is changed we don't know whether a driver rounded up or down09:57
mthimo the driver shouldn't round at all, the clock should do the rounding09:57
mthand save the value the driver originally requested09:57
mthah, but that's not how it works right now09:59
larscbut the clock doesn't know whether it should round up or down09:59
mthcan't it call it's own .round_rate op?10:04
larscimo it is a layering violation to decide in which direction to round in the clock code10:08
mthan alternative would be to let the driver configure the rounding, but still have the clock perform it10:12
mthor could we require the driver set a new freq in the pre notification of the PLL change?10:13
larscthats what other platforms do10:14
larscsome platforms implement a recalc callback for a clock10:17
qi-commitsXiangfu Liu: [catdoc] fix typo by Jirka http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/8b355f710:18
qi-commitsMaarten ter Huurne: jz4740_mmc: Compile fix. http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/05f364911:59
qi-commitsLars-Peter Clausen: use sg_mapping_iter to iterate over sg elements. http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/002674c11:59
qi-commitsLars-Peter Clausen: jz4740: clock: Fix setting parents for spi and i2s clock http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/902fdf011:59
qwebirc50625At the LinuxTag fair i owned a Nanonote13:32
qwebirc50625sb told me, the nano would automatically show up a ip number, wenn connected to ubunto (tcp/ip over usb)13:33
qwebirc50625what's that ip and where do i find a telnetd or sshd for my nano (i really prefer exporing it via keyboard and display of my notebook ... ;-)13:34
zearqwebirc50625, http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ethernet_over_USB13:34
zeari doubt it will show up automatically13:35
zearbut with this wiki page you'll manage to set it up manually13:35
qwebirc50625i am looking for additional binaries for the default nanonote, e.g. bash (hate ash), sshd, a small cc, typical binaries, like expr, ... perhaps a webserver, lynx browser ..13:37
qwebirc50625where do i find just those binaries?13:37
zearonce you set up the networking in your nanonote, run "opkg update"13:38
zearand then "opkg list | grep [your_app]"13:38
zearas for the url of the repo - no idea13:38
qwebirc50625oh wow! .... tnx lots13:41
qwebirc50625i really repreciate the original handbook of nano ;-)13:42
qwebirc50625depreciate ;-)13:42
zeari wish i had one :D13:42
zearbut at the time i got mine (dev model) there was no printed manual yet13:43
qwebirc50625oh a belgium guy sold me one for 80¬ ;-)13:43
zearit's hard to put anything in the handbook if the device has almost no software at that point of time13:44
zearand anything can change13:44
qwebirc50625what i am also really missing is a app-place ... gnuchess, doom, tetris ... those games are already existing, but i had to find them up in the www via google ...bad!!!13:45
zearyeah, i guess that's what the repo is for13:46
zearbut i haven't tried the opkg package repository yet13:46
qwebirc50625oh, missed that ... where can i find this repo via http:// ???13:46
zearhonestly? no idea :D13:46
zearbut check opkg configs13:47
zearthere must be an address in there13:47
zeari don't know how much stuff is there anyway13:47
qwebirc50625ok, will find that ;-) but i am not always online ... at the moment i am mirroring every archive for nanonote onto my ubuntu ...13:47
qwebirc50625gentoo really works on ben???13:48
qwebirc50625(glibc ...)13:48
zeari don't really know, but i don't really see a point of gentoo running on 336MHz, 32RAM device13:49
qwebirc50625what would u suggest? keeping the original image, changing to debian?13:49
zeari mean, gentoo comes with ebuilds, that have to be compiled for the machine13:49
zearsure you could cross-compile every app on your pc box13:49
zearbut what's the point?13:49
qwebirc50625lots of work .. ;-(13:50
zearwell, there's some interesting work going on in the jlime distribution13:50
zearX11, icewm, matchbox.. ;)13:50
qwebirc50625hmmm .... i thought about going back to ncurses GUI ;-)13:50
zearkeep in mind the default font size in the console is less than the standard terminal size13:51
zearso most of ncurses stuff will not work13:51
zearand if you change the font to a standard terminal size, it will be too small to be readible13:51
qwebirc50625in former times linux kernel had a boot option for 80x25, 80x43, 40x25 fonts ... are they still there and usable on ben nanonote?13:51
zearit's the problem of 320x240 and lcd type13:52
zearsimply very small fonts are disorted13:52
qwebirc50625antialiasing fonts should work ... 16M colors!!!13:52
zearhttp://wstaw.org/m/2010/06/09/lcd.png on the left you have the standard LCD led placement, on the right is the nanonote13:53
qwebirc50625seems to get complicated to build a font for ... ;-(13:53
nebajothqwebirc50625: install debian13:54
nebajothfor sure13:54
nebajothespecially if you're an ubuntu user already13:54
zearnow a very small font (letter A) displayed on the normal LCD and nanonote's one: http://wstaw.org/m/2010/06/22/foo_png_750x750_q85.jpg13:54
zeari think you get the problem13:54
nebajothits awesome to do the same things on my NN as on my desktop13:54
nebajothI run debian on mine, and its pure awesomeness13:54
jlmoko~seen tuxbrain13:55
zearnebajoth, really?13:55
zearlike, what debian has to offer?13:55
zearbesides cli, which is the same as everywhere13:55
zeari think desktop distributions ports have no real advantages on handheld devices like the nanonote13:56
qwebirc50625keyboard works correctly on ben nanonote with debian?13:56
qwebirc50625i really dislike qt and gtk+ is a memory pig ... so no real chance to install a gui on ben nanonote ...13:57
zearqwebirc50625, have you updated the firmware?13:57
zearthe latest one comes with gmenu2x - a gui written in sdl13:58
zearit's really lightweight13:58
nebajothzear: like I said13:58
qwebirc50625no, not yet ... original firmware ... why do you ask?13:58
nebajothtotal transparency13:58
nebajoththe same set of tools as my desktkop user experience13:58
zearqwebirc50625, because the newest comes with gmenu2x13:58
nebajothand a huge set of packages ready fo rinstallation13:58
zearso you can try it13:58
nebajothfor installation13:58
nebajothit runs a treat, as long as you give it a little swap space13:58
nebajothI see absolutely zero reasons to step down to a "custom" firmware13:59
nebajothjlime is an interesting exploratory experiment13:59
nebajothbut I don't really see a use case for it except as some compromise between the openwrt spartan approach and the all-things-loaded debian one openwrt spartan13:59
zearqwebirc50625, here's to give you an idea how gmenu2x looks like: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Dt7dKAqP0fM/Rll9ngLAgtI/AAAAAAAAAU4/KbCer0T6wOI/s400/Gmenu2x.png14:00
nebajothI believe an OE distribution was considered early on by the devs14:00
nebajothand rejected on grounds that it was overengineered14:00
nebajothand didn't bring much benefit14:00
qwebirc50625gmenu2x is written in c?14:00
zearqwebirc50625, or c++, i'm not sure14:00
zearlet me check14:00
zearhere's the project page: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/gmenu2x/14:01
mththe code is a mess though, so while it's useful to see what can be done, I wouldn't recommend copying its design into your own project14:01
mthqwebirc50625: wxWidgets on DirectFB is relatively light and can be themed14:02
qwebirc50625gmenu2x cpp ... better would have been c ... i really dislike any interpreters ... even dalvik .... memory pigs ...14:04
mthwhere is there an interpreter?14:05
qwebirc50625i have talked to nokia/siemens qt developers at the linuxtag fair ... qt is NOT FREE ...14:05
mthnot free in what way?14:06
qwebirc50625cpp is a mixture between compiler and interpreter ... see e.g. virtual functions ...14:06
bartbesyes, elaborate, I want to know14:06
qwebirc50625commercial applications with closed source you have to pay for ...14:07
qwebirc50625commercial applications opensource is free14:07
mththat the difference between the GNU and BSD definition of free... nothing new there14:07
qwebirc50625talking about the new qt license14:07
bartbesyes commercial closed source is paid14:08
bartbeshmm weird14:08
bartbeswell, not like I'm doing that anytime soon14:08
qwebirc50625this guy showed me the new touch libs for qt ... interesting ... but the license ... ;-(14:09
qwebirc50625and with new qt you can output javascript ... from the cpp source code ... but has its own JS interpreter weird ... but seems to work ...14:10
zeari see nothing wrong with paying for commercial use, but you should be obligated to release the source code anyway14:10
zeari just don't like any kind of closed source software14:10
zearpaid or not14:10
qwebirc50625qt seems to have become all open source ...14:10
bartbesbut I'm not quite sure when you need the commercial license14:11
bartbesthey mostly say "if you can't comply with the LGPL"14:11
qwebirc50625commercial sold without source ... then u have to pay.14:11
qwebirc50625some sort of punishment ;-)14:12
mthif you link dynamically, LGPL even allows a closed source app to use a lib14:12
bartbesit's actually different14:12
bartbesI misinterpreted14:12
bartbesthey say if it's commercial you need the commercial license, but you still have to comply with the LGPL14:13
qwebirc50625Hi Mirco!14:13
mthbartbes: that doesn't make sense14:13
qwebirc50625Mirco Lindner?14:13
bartbesmth: why?14:13
larscqwebirc50625: he is not here14:13
mthbecause (L)GPL doesn't allow additional restrictions beyond what is in that license itself14:14
larscqwebirc50625: mirko is a different mirko14:14
bartbesmth: it doesn't allow dual-licensing?14:14
larscthere are two of them...14:14
mthin the past, it was GPL or commercial; recently they changed that to LGPL or commercial14:14
larscbartbes: it does14:15
mthbartbes: it does, but then the two licenses are completely separate14:15
larscbut you can put additional restrictions on the lgpl14:15
bartbesmth: I guess that is the case14:15
qwebirc50625IMHO this ingenic board (built in in ben nanonote) has great future ... it's used everywhere in china ... not ARM they really prefer MIPS ... Software development in future comes from china ...14:16
qwebirc50625No chinese company will use qt ... ;-(14:16
qwebirc50625because of non free license ...14:16
bartbeshypocrite if you consider they steal everything themselves14:17
qwebirc50625where do i find information or code about powermanagement in ben nanonote?14:17
qwebirc50625chinese people always steal software themselves ;-)14:18
qwebirc50625ben nanonote has just usb client - not host? So i can't connect my hama stick to it?14:22
qwebirc50625That information right?14:22
zearqwebirc50625, unfortunally, that's true14:23
zearno usb host in ben nanonote14:23
qwebirc50625where can i get that SDIO with wifi card from?14:24
qwebirc50625usb host for usb clients would have been much better ... but tcp/ip over usb seem to work fine ;-) ... can connect hundreds of dedicated ben servers to one ubuntu machine ;-)14:27
rejonmilkymist rocks14:35
qi-commitsBas Wijnen: working fat reader http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/a27715614:55
sdschulz`rejon: you got it in hardware?15:07
sdschulzeA platform with a hackable processor would be damn nice.15:08
sdschulzeIs Milkymist OK as a multi-purpose platform?15:10
nebajothsdschulze: doubt its very fast just yet15:24
nebajothbut it "runs linux"15:24
bartbesdoes it run crysis?15:25
nebajothat 1fps :D15:26
nebajothit starts at the end of the game15:26
nebajothand moves backwards15:26
bartbesgood answer to an otherwise horrible joke15:26
nebajothits so slow15:26
nebajothgotta roll with the punches!15:27
sdschulzenebajoth: oh, nice15:27
sdschulzemy matter of interest: how do I make a processor more friendly towards type-safe programming languages?15:29
sdschulzeprobably a long-term issue, though15:29
sdschulzeI would like my processor to help me doing array bound-checking, maybe garbage collection and maybe unboxing.15:36
qwebirc23620Hello. I tried re-flashing the NanoNote with Debian, according to the pyeno.org instructions on how to do so.. now, when I try to turn it on, it won't. Someone in here told me to put it into USB-boot mode... i've tried to do so for hours and hours, with no avail.. Is there any luck on unbricking my NanoNote?15:55
sdschulzeqwebirc23620: So the reflashing was succesful?15:57
qwebirc23620Yes, it was. But someone told me that the boot-loader is corrupted.15:57
qwebirc23620Hence it not turning on.15:57
sdschulzeWhy would it be?!15:58
sdschulzeRemove all power sources (battery and USB cable).15:58
sdschulzejust to make sure it's really off15:58
sdschulze(BTW, you should rather follow the http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/%E6%9C%AC-ben-nanonote-editingcompilingflashing-arduino-sketch tutorial -- the Debian image is better, but both should at least boot.)15:59
qwebirc23620Well, someone in here, asked if the LED on the right side of the unit blinked really quickly upon power on, and it did.. so it was their opinion that the boot-loader was corrupted.15:59
sdschulzeThen re-apply power by either inserting the battery or the cable.15:59
qwebirc23620I've already tried that.. many times.16:00
sdschulzeThen re-re-flash...16:00
qwebirc23620I can't get it to into USB-boot mode...16:00
sdschulzenot even using the hardware method?16:00
sdschulze(the two pins)16:01
qwebirc23620I've tried tin foil, the little rubber deal that came with the NanoNote..16:01
qwebirc23620Yes. The two pins.16:01
sdschulzeSo you connected them and pressed the power button meanwhile?16:01
sdschulzesounds like a hardware problem then...16:02
sdschulzemaybe ask on the mailing list16:02
qwebirc23620Well, when recharging, the LED turns a bright red..16:03
sdschulzeThat's correct.16:03
sdschulzebecause it gets charged16:03
qwebirc23620Just saying that that may be a sign that the hardware is fine.16:03
sdschulzewell, that it's not completely broken, rather16:04
qwebirc23620I'm just worried I brcked it.16:04
sdschulzeHow would you have done this?16:04
qwebirc23620Well, I am kind of assuming since the unit will not turn on.16:05
qwebirc23620And i've tried everything.16:05
sdschulzeIf you didn't open the case, you hardly have a chance to break anything.16:05
qwebirc23620Ah. Ok.16:05
sdschulze(AFAIK -- I've no real clue about the NanoNote hardware.)16:06
bartbesI always thought flashing was brick-sensitive16:06
qwebirc23620How does the "reset" button work? Any idea?16:06
sdschulzeSo your computer doesn't recognize the NanoNote as a USB device?16:07
qwebirc23620No, it doesn't.16:07
qwebirc23620# watch lsusb16:07
sdschulzebartbes: Dunno, but doesn't it just change the contents of the NAND flash?16:08
qwebirc23620I think i'm going to let it sit for a few hours... maybe that will help.16:08
qwebirc23620(With no battery or USB cable)16:08
bartbesthink so, but if that memory gets corrupted your screwed, basically16:08
urandom_bartbes the ben is unbrickable cause it has hardware usb boot mode, you can always reflash16:08
bartbesurandom_: good to know16:09
sdschulzeIf you could break it that way, it wouldn't be recommended to do "nerase 0 4096 0 0".16:10
urandom_qwebirc23620 just retry till is works, you can always get into usb boot mode but it is sometimes hard to get into16:11
bartbesthat sounds dangerous...16:11
qwebirc23620urandom_: Nod.16:11
sdschulzeqwebirc23620: Try a different USB cable.  I've had experiences with bad USB cables...16:12
sdschulzethough unlikely16:12
nebajothyou have to press damned hard16:12
zearqwebirc23620, ah, so the nanonote won't boot?16:12
qwebirc23620zear: Nope.16:13
nebajothand it was me who told you that it was likely a corrupt bootloader16:13
zearthat's a VERY common problem when flashing using the script16:13
sdschulzeqwebirc23620: I usually use a short wire.16:13
zearfor me it's a 100% chance the script badly flashes the bootloader16:13
zearso i always flash the bootloader manually16:13
sdschulzeqwebirc23620: Hold both ends in your hand like chopsticks.16:14
qwebirc23620I did it all manually. I even cut and pasted the commands into the shell.16:14
qwebirc23620Hmm.. I can't find a wire..16:15
sdschulzeThat way, it has worked best for me.16:15
qwebirc23620Maybe I can find a piece of speaker wire.16:15
bartbesyou could always get some wire from your tv :P16:15
nebajothI didn't have luck with wire16:16
sdschulzeThe ends should not be insulated, of course.16:16
nebajothtinfoil is the only thing that worked for me16:17
bartbeswhat about a staple?16:17
sdschulzebartbes: similar to a wire16:17
sdschulzethough you should remove the insulation16:18
bartbesyes, but it is an easy to obtain conductive material16:18
sdschulze(BTW, is "adding a USB boot button" on the TODO list?...)16:18
nebajothI'm doing it to mine16:19
nebajothI got 28 AWG wire16:19
nebajothgoing to break it out to the side of the case16:19
nebajothput in a little switch16:19
nebajothI was concerned it might displace the battery too much16:19
nebajothbut it fits fine16:19
nebajothin fact, I've had a coiled piece in there for about 5 days16:20
nebajothjust sitting between the battery and the underside of the circuitboard16:20
sdschulzeSoldering -- if done well -- is of course the most reliable method.16:22
qwebirc87876Still no luck in getting it into USB-boot mode.17:09
zearqwebirc87876, a handy command: "watch lsusb"17:10
qwebirc87876I noticed a few people on a forum have the same problem as me.. no remedy, though.17:10
zearwill tell you if the device is in usbmode17:11
qwebirc87876Yes. I used that command.17:11
zearand will save some time on typing the command17:11
zearah, fine ;)17:11
zearforum? We have some forums?17:11
qwebirc87876At the end of this URL: http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/%E6%9C%AC-ben-nanonote-editingcompilingflashing-arduino-sketch17:12
qwebirc87876Well, it's not a forum.. my bad.17:12
qwebirc878762 people say that they have the same problem as me.17:12
zearthe bootloader is corrupted17:13
zearyou have to reflash it17:13
zearthat's the fix for it17:13
qwebirc87876I know. I know. But, I cannot boot into USB-boot mode.17:13
qwebirc87876I've been trying almost non stop since lastnight.17:13
zearqwebirc87876, maybe try with the aluminium foil17:13
zearroll it up and try to short both the pins17:13
qwebirc87876I tried that.. as well as a wire, and the carbon button that came with the unit..17:14
qwebirc87876I'll try again though.17:14
zearoh you have the button?17:14
zearthen use that17:14
zearyou just need to press it firmly17:14
qwebirc87876Yes. I've tried.17:14
nebajothit is very odd17:14
nebajoththat you cannot start it in usb mode17:14
nebajothhave you tried scraping the surface of the contacts a little?17:14
nebajothmaybe there's some kind of residue preventing proper contact17:14
zearqwebirc87876, sometimes i had to try the button ~50 times to get it to boot17:14
nebajothand crinkle the tinfoil17:15
zearbut i think it's because i wan't pressing strong enough17:15
nebajothyeah, you have to press insanely strongl17:15
nebajothI'm breaking it out to a switch on the side of the unit as soon as I find a properly small switch :P17:15
qwebirc87876I'll try wiping the contacts off... wish I had some isopropyl..17:15
nebajothwhat firmware do you use?17:16
zearqwebirc87876, and just in case, that's how the pin shorting should look like: 1) press both the pins with the button AND hold it 2) still holding the button pressed, plug in the usb 3) don't release the button until the device is in usbboot mode (but if it doesn't happen after ~4sec, it failed and you have to try again)17:16
zearnebajoth, currently the newest17:17
zeari think17:17
nebajothdoes dumpkeys work for you?17:17
zearnebajoth, i think not17:17
zearbut i don't remember right now17:17
zearbut i tested it once17:17
zearthe battery is dead, can't check it out now17:17
nebajothhow does openwrt determine keymap?17:18
zearno idea ;)17:19
qwebirc87876Woohoo! Got it.17:22
zearqwebirc87876, ;D17:22
bartbesby cleaning the contacts?17:22
zearnow, flash the bootloader manually17:22
zearnot via the script17:22
qwebirc87876Should I erase?17:23
qwebirc87876And re-flash everything?17:23
nebajothwhat did it, qwebirc87876?  cleaning the contacts?17:25
nebajothor the order you did thing?17:25
nebajothwtf, keymaps are confusing17:28
qwebirc87876I'm not sure, exactly.17:28
qwebirc87876I think zear's instructions are what did it.17:28
nebajoththat actually makes sense17:28
qwebirc87876Thanks, zear.17:28
nebajothI didn't think the contacts should be a real problem17:28
nebajothit was just all I could think of17:28
qwebirc87876Anyone know where the Debian files to flash are localed?17:29
qwebirc87876I didn't care for OpenWRT.17:29
nebajoththe ubi is linked in the tuxbrain tutorial17:30
nebajoththat was linked above17:30
zearqwebirc87876, you're welcome ;)17:30
tuxbrainI will start to claim royalties for that tutorial :P17:31
zearbtw tuxbrain, new console from GPH is in developement. What's your opinion on this? :D17:32
zearthey showed it during E317:32
nebajothmy spanish amigo17:32
nebajothdo you know anything about keymaps?17:32
zearnebajoth, larsc should know17:33
zearlarsc knows everything ;)17:33
tuxbrainman, not at all17:33
zearjust don't bug him too often ;)17:33
nebajothlarsc: ping17:33
tuxbrainzear:closed shit is closed shit in spite you paint it pink17:34
zeartuxbrain, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5QkvGbisJc17:34
zearwell, it's a wiz in a different case, with double ram ;)17:34
zearand with a faggy analog instead of a dpad17:34
tuxbrainwell in this case black17:34
zearwell, it's not *tat* closed, it runs linux17:34
zearthere will be the full source code if it, as usual17:35
zearand a toolchain17:35
nebajothhalf measures17:35
nebajothimpatient n00bs too eager to sacrifice freedom for an instant fix17:36
stuckie... they've had trouble getting the source code to the stuff on the Wiz out, and it took them ages to get a toolchain out too ;)17:36
zearstuckie, oh? I know it was the case with gp2x17:36
zearbut i didn't know wiz wasn't open at first17:36
tuxbrainthat the finally release the fonts of the all the libraries they use, including "his" version of sdl?17:36
nebajothhahah I'm just trolling, in case anybody is associated with that project :D17:36
stuckieWiz was slightly better.. they didn't take _quite_ as long17:36
nebajothanybody here running debian and wants to run a dumpkeys for me?17:37
zearwell, anyway i'm sticking to qi-hardware and dingoo17:37
tuxbrainwell, doesn't mind, GPH on wiz was very loosy quality materials, I have lost a lot of interest in it17:38
stuckieI might grab a NanoNote at some point.. once I've exhausted all the crazy hacks I'm upto on the Pandora ( I'll then start doing crazy hacks on the NanoNote instead! )17:38
mthzear: double RAM, impopular case design and bad controls, it's just like the A330 :)17:38
zearmth, true :D17:39
zearmth, and a worse screen17:39
qwebirc87876wolf:~/nano # wget http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/latest/openwrt-xburst-u-boot.bin --2010-06-22 14:37:18--  http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/latest/openwrt-xburst-u-boot.bin Resolving downloads.qi-hardware.com... Connecting to downloads.qi-hardware.com||:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not F17:39
mthoh, at least the A330 had a better screen17:39
zearmth, and in both cases, a higher price ;D17:39
qwebirc87876Anyone know where I can get that u-boot image?17:46
qwebirc87876Or should I use the second one listed in the pyneo.org page?17:47
qwebirc87876I used the second one the first time I flashed the Nano, and that's when it wouldn't power on.17:47
nebajothyou should get17:48
nebajoththe one that xiangfu released17:49
nebajothI dunno what the download url for it is these days17:49
nebajothif needed, I can dropbox mine17:49
nebajothbut its probably a month old17:49
nebajothqwebirc87876: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/latest/17:51
nebajoththe problem you had17:51
qwebirc87876Ok. http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/latest/openwrt-xburst-u-boot.bin is actually openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.bin... must be a typo.17:51
nebajothwas you specified the filename17:51
nebajothwhich has changed17:51
nebajothno, its changed17:51
nebajoththe one with qi_lb60 in it17:52
nebajothshows kernel output on the screen17:52
nebajothwhich the earlier one did not17:52
nebajothit was an optimization xiangfu added17:52
nebajothpyneo has no real communication with the devs17:52
nebajothso they haven't updated their tutorial17:52
qwebirc87876So, I should get http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/latest/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.bin ???17:55
nebajoth`showkey` shows a completely different keycode from what the keymaps supposedly alter18:11
nebajothI'm so bloody confused18:12
larscnebajoth: pong18:21
nebajothlarsc: I was told you are a wizard re: keymaps18:26
nebajoththanks for responding :D18:26
nebajothI am debugging the keymap in debian18:26
nebajothby default console-setup-mini is installed, and this doesn't have some pretty basic characters working18:27
nebajothsuch as +18:27
nebajothI apt-get installed console-setup (full)18:27
nebajothand it enabled +, but broke all the red-arrow characters18:27
nebajothI'd like to make a new, clean keymap specifically for the NN18:28
nebajothbut I'm getting weird results when I try to figure out what each key is18:28
nebajothspecifically, I run `showkey -m`, and it gives me what I thought would be the keycodes used in keymap files18:28
nebajothbut while the format looks identical, the numbers aren't the same18:28
nebajothin other works, showkey seems to be showing me false values18:28
nebajothmine looks pretty similar18:30
nebajothhere we go18:30
nebajothwhat is that18:30
nebajothalso, while this is great, and I appreciate it and will totally use it18:31
nebajothit doesn't answer my question regarding showkey18:31
nebajothany idea what that's about?18:31
nebajotham I misunderstanding something?18:31
larscno idea18:36
nebajothwell thanks, you saved me a few hours :P18:37
larschere is the thread about it http://en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/developer/2010-June/003116.html18:38
larscmaybe the guy how created the mapping knows about it18:38
nebajothmarc zonzon18:39
nebajothgood call18:39
nebajothdamnnnn it feels good to have a working keymap18:44
Textmodemorning all18:55
kristianpauli think i damaged tp4 pcb point23:03
wolfspraulhow that?23:03
kristianpauli was soldering the wire again23:03
kristianpaulcause got short23:03
kristianpaulso i decide replace23:03
wolfspraulbring it to cparty maybe carlos can rescue it :-)23:03
kristianpaulbur wait i'll see what can i do23:04
wolfspraulwatch out with overheating23:04
wolfspraulthen your ben may be totally broken23:04
wolfspraulalso tp4 is close to the cpu I think23:04
kristianpaulavoiding that i think acidentally pull the cable and removed the pin23:04
kristianpaulyes it is23:04
wolfspraulthe COB glue is spec'ed for a max of 150 celsius I think23:05
wolfspraulif it becomes soft, the bonding wires inside may get damaged23:05
wolfspraulcan you still boot the nano?23:05
wolfspraulif you only mechanically ripped off the TP, it usually can be rescued by finding the wire under the PCB coating and doing a little surgery there23:06
wolfspraulbut you need to be somewhat skilled so you don't make things worse and worse23:06
wolfspraulI couldn't do it for sure :-)23:06
kristianpaulyeah i'm about that but first i'll check boot23:07
wolfspraulwe can swap nanos, I give you mine and vice versa23:07
wolfspraulI don't need tp423:07
kristianpaulyou relly need how my nano looks after disambled and assenle again..23:08
kristianpaulwait wait ill plug usb23:08
wolfspraulI like used computers23:08
kristianpauluff it boots23:09
wolfspraulhe he23:09
wolfspraulbe careful soldering close to the COB glue23:09
wolfspraulsolder fast23:09
kristianpaulnow time to surgery23:10
wolfspraulCOB is not heat tolerant at all23:10
kristianpauli was thinking use a epoxy to paste the pcb poiny again..23:10
wolfspraulthe COB step is done after SMT, basically a cold process23:10
wolfspraulwire bonding, then glue23:10
wolfspraulafter that there is no more heating23:10
wolfsprauluntil you approach it with the tip of your iron, he he23:11
wolfspraulso you need to keep the heat really local to the TP4 area23:11
wolfsprauldo you plan to help Milkymist development on your avnet board?23:12
kristianpauli plan learn more about MM then help ;)23:13
kristianpaulso my knowledge is undergrounded i think is the word23:14
kristianpaulplus i dint learn verilog just vhdl..23:14
kristianpaulbut MM is fantastic to learn, so far the papers are easy to follow23:15
wolfspraulwe need to be careful to not create too many, ideally none, dependencies on proprietary Xilinx stuff23:20
wolfspraulthis is very high on Sebastien's watch list so that's good23:20
wolfspraulbut there are always a few things here and there that can be improved23:20
wolfspraullike this mail you may have just seen on the list talking about reflashing without the xilinx webpack23:21
wolfspraulor simulation (icarus verilog/gtkwave) without needing Xilinx binaries23:21
wolfspraulbut anyway, just got your avnet :-)23:22
wolfsprauldo you bring it to cparty?23:22
kristianpaulnow wait 10min23:29
kristianpauli think for now xilinx stuff is just nedeed for sintesys23:30
kristianpaulverilog is promising but still missing feature i tested and reported the bug23:31
wolfspraulwell there are many details here and there I think23:31
wolfspraulproprietary dependencies are lurking everywhere :-)23:31
kristianpaulbu developers well, they just dont want to help as we like23:31
wolfspraulwhat do you mean?23:31
wolfspraulbu developers well?23:31
kristianpaulverilog developers,23:32
wolfspraulwhy not?23:32
kristianpauli sjut a thread about a missing feature23:32
wolfspraulI'm not worried we get there23:32
wolfspraulthe Icarus Verilog guy I think is doing this project in his spare time for 10 years already23:32
wolfspraulwe have to pump some money into free technology, to accelerate it...23:33
kristianpaulthe recomedation of sebastien is rewrite some code in MM to not relay on it and make it run well on icarus23:35
newbie007greetings, anyone know sdl programming? I'm looking at an example and wondering if I could get this running on my ben nano note..23:45
newbie007specifically SDL_SetVideoMode(640, 480, 16, SDL_SWSURFACE);23:45
wolfspraulkristianpaul: nice, that bug was fixed! congrats!23:51
kristianpaulwell i prefer let this pcb dry all the night23:53
kristianpaulsee you i some hrs23:53
--- Wed Jun 23 201000:00

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