#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2010-06-12

xdpirateah, thanks00:02
xdpirate:D00:02
urandom_xdpirate isnt there any on screen keyboard for the dingoo so you could make a port of the dex for it without much work?00:07
xdpirateurandom_, basically, nope00:07
xdpirateno virtual keyboard to control the terminal00:08
xdpirateatleast not yet00:08
TextmodeI made some tries at making one, but when i pushed events, anything that wasn't mapped to a dingoo button just got eaten...00:08
Textmodenever did figure out where, best guess was the keyboard driver itself.00:09
urandom_wow that is really ... poor00:09
Textmodetheres a reason opendingux heavily uses patches from NN's openwrt :P00:10
Textmode(opendingux != dingux)00:10
urandom_yeah i already heared some talk about opendingux here00:11
Textmodewouldn't surprise me00:12
xdpiratebah it doesn't work00:14
xdpiratefreakin sdl00:14
xdpiratecopied them over from the official image, now all sdl apps stop working after init and i have to turn it off00:15
xdpiratei don't have to reflash everything just to reflash rootfs right?00:16
urandom_with a bit of luck yes00:16
xdpirate|sigh00:18
xdpirate|reflashing rootfs now, seems to be working00:23
xdpirate|i'm glad i keep all my stuff on the sd, because if i have to reflash several times a week, that'd be a pain :P00:23
xdpirate|oh great, i entered the wrong offset to start flashing00:29
xdpirate|the kernel was overwritten, epic00:29
xdpirateIs there any way to disable the "Please wait while the graphical environment is loading" message?00:48
xdpirateand just go straight into a console00:48
xdpiratei already disabled the gmenu2x autostart in /etc/rc.d/S99start00:48
emeb|macstudying the NN schematic - notice that there's an unpopulated footprint @ U1101:18
emeb|maclabled 'SCIC' in the schematic, it's got two lines to the JZ that look like I2C clk/data.01:19
rafanew jlime development version to test. New kernel and rootfs. jlime.com, for braves :)01:25
xdpirateWhat exactly do you call the red arrow key?01:31
Textmodewhat is jlime?01:31
Textmodexdpirate: redshift?01:31
Textmode:)01:31
xdpiratelolk01:31
xdpirate:P01:31
xdpiratehm01:35
xdpirateTextmode, maybe the red arrow button is alt gr?01:35
xdpiratei'm led to think so, after all it has the same function on ps01:36
xdpiratepcs*01:36
emeb|macrafa: looks like jlime installs on the microSD & doesn't need to overwrite the NAND?01:43
emeb|macerr - belay that. looks like the SD card is used to flash the NAND.01:47
xiangfuxdpirate: Hi, disable the "Please wait while the ..." is in BUSYBOX02:19
xiangfuxdpirate: yes. the red arrow is AltGr.02:20
xdpiratehow do i disable it in busybox then?02:20
xdpirateand thanks for the info on the altgr :)02:20
xiangfuxdpirate: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-xburst/source/tree/xburst/package/busybox/patches/950-change-init-msg.patch02:22
xdpirateouch, i have to recompile it?02:23
xdpirateBtw, emeb|mac and everyone else, this might help when developing in SDL for the NanoNote: http://www.qqmore.info/?p=5202:25
xiangfuxdpirate: yes.02:26
emeb|macxdpirate: cool02:45
kyaki just do'nt understand.. i have libflac installed, why flac files are not visible in gmu?05:22
wejpkyak, openwrt comes with a very outdated version of libFLAC which isn't supported by Gmu, you need a more recent version of libFLAC and then also need to build the Gmu FLAC decoder plugin05:23
kyakwejp: is there any documentation regarding this?05:24
wejponce the libFLAC of openwrt gets updated, I'll include the flac decoder plugin with the next Gmu release for the NanoNote05:24
wejpdocumentation regarding what?05:24
kyakhow to "build the Gmu FLAC decoder plugin" with a "more recent version of libFLAC"?05:25
wejpon how to build Gmu? yes, there is the BUILD.txt included where I explain how to build Gmu, but of course you need a toolchain for doing that05:25
wejpbut i do not explain how to build libFLAC itself05:26
wejpthe libFLAC that comes with openwrt is more than 5 years old, by the way05:27
kyaki have the toolchain.. so in the best case i just update the libflac's Makefile to download the recent version?05:27
kyakin the worst case, i'll never get it compiled05:28
wejpyeah, you could try to do it that way05:28
kyakbecause obviously if it was that easy it would have been done already05:28
wejponce you've successfully built the newer libFLAC you can enable the flac decoder for gmu and compile that05:28
kyakeh..// isn't the libflac.so the required plugin?05:29
wejpcompiling libFLAC isn't that difficult. i have no idea why openwrt comes with such an old libFLAC05:29
wejpkyak, yes it is05:29
wejpoh, you mean the one for gmu? it is called flac.so05:29
kyakso once i get the recent version of libflac, i just have to "feed" it to gmu, right?05:30
wejpand is located in Gmu's decoders directory05:30
wejplike the other decoders05:30
wejpyou just need to have a recent version of libFLAC and then enable the flac decoder in GMu's configuration05:30
kyakok, this is what i thought.05:30
wejpcheck the BUILD.txt for that. i've written that file for a reason05:30
kyakwill do, thanks !05:31
wejpthat part is really simple05:31
kyakwejp: what kind of format you prefer yourself? ogg?05:41
wejpfor portable devices with little space i like ogg very much, but flac is nice too. :)05:44
qi-commitsMirko Vogt: remove mx2-target as it's not part of backfire and was accidently merged into openwrt-xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/aa5519505:57
kyakwonderfull.. {standard input}:209: Error: unrecognized opcode `xorl $16,$16' and 280 lines of patching for old version of libflac05:57
xdpirateare there any recording programs for the nanonote? it's got a mic and all :)06:00
xdpiratenvm, found out i can use arecord06:11
wolfspraulxdpirate: you here? my network is strange, just shoot your question06:40
wolfspraulI'll be back later...06:41
xdpirateIs there a way to kill a hanging SDL application, when switching to another console with Ctrl+Alt+Fx doesn't work, or do I just have to reboot the unit?06:45
xiangfuxdpirate: ssh. if ssh not work, I think have to reboot.06:55
xdpiratexiangfu, mkay, thanks06:55
xdpiratemoglenstar/omgmog of #dingoonity just created a sub-forum for us on the Dingoonity Forums!07:39
xdpiratehttp://boards.dingoonity.org/ben-nanonote/07:39
wejpxdpirate, that's nice :)07:51
xdpirateThat's very nice, we now have someplace to release applications and for discussion in general :)07:52
xdpirateAnd it can help both scenes, NN developers may get interested in the Dingoo, and Dingoo developers may get interested in the NanoNote07:52
wejpyeah, that was really missing before07:52
xdpirateAnd all thanks to me, who convinced omgmog to create the board :D07:53
xdpiratex]07:53
wejpand most people don't like mailing lists, so those aren't a forum replacement07:53
xdpiratewhat's the password for the nn's ssh?07:57
xdpiratei've set my nn's password with passwd, but entering that doesn't work07:57
xdpirateand my telnet connection gets refused07:57
xdpirateAnyone?08:01
xdpiratewejp? :P08:01
wejpyou should be able to set the password08:09
xdpiratehow?08:10
wejpwith passwd ;)08:10
xdpirateyeah i've done that08:10
xdpiratessh doesn't accept it08:10
xdpirateand when i try to ssh from my nanonote to my pc, it doesn't accept it either08:10
xdpiratetelnet just says "Login failed"08:10
wejphm, strange08:10
xdpiratei'd rather use telnet tbh, there's no security issues when it's connected via usb08:11
wejpyeah, true08:11
xdpiratei also tried passwd -d root, to reset password, still can't ssh or telnet in08:11
arctanxxdpirate: Strange about the telnet. When I telnetted to my NN it just gave me a root shell as soon as I connected08:13
xdpirateyes, it's done so to me aswell, until i set the password with passwd08:13
arctanxah right08:13
xdpiratebut the password i set doesn't work when i try to ssh into it08:14
dptechhello08:16
xdpirate"Trying 192.168.254.101... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused"08:16
dptechxdpirate: do you make "route add default gw 192.168.254.100" ?08:17
dptechxdpirate: in ben nano of course!08:18
xdpirateyes, didn't work08:19
xdpiratefirst i got "No route to host"08:19
xdpiratethen after doing "ifconfig usb0 192.168.254.100", i got "Connection refused" again08:19
xdpirateeven tried "sudo route add default gw 192.168.254.101" on pc08:20
xdpirateand SSH won't accept my password08:20
dptechxdpirate: in ben nano "passwd root" and enter new password08:23
xdpirateyes, i've tried that several times :P08:23
xdpiratejust get "Permission denied, please try again." on PC08:24
xdpiratewhen entering the password08:24
dptechxdpirate: perhap dont't forget difference between  "a" and "A"08:25
xdpirateI know :)08:25
dptechxdpirate: and i see i must take all procedures after ben nano rebbot...08:26
dptechreboot08:26
dptechbecause I don' have problem after procedures08:28
xdpiratei've tried everything, even rebooting several times, i can't access it neither by telnet nor ssh08:29
xdpiratei even swapped out the usb cable lol08:30
xdpiratewhen i try to telnet to host pc from ben, i also get the "Connection refused" error08:31
xdpiratesame with ssh, it won't accept the password08:31
xdpirateeven though i'm positive it's corrept08:31
xdpiratecorrect*08:31
dptechxdpirate: configure iptable is correct ?08:32
xdpiratei have no idea, i'll check in a sec when host is back, i'm rebooting it too08:32
dptechxdpirate: Perhap can you forget one line of prcedure ? http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ethernet_over_USB08:35
dptechprocedure08:35
xdpiratenope, nothing works08:41
xdpiratenot telnet, not shh08:41
xdpirateit just instantly closes the telnet connection, saying "login failed"08:41
xdpirateTrying 192.168.254.101...08:50
xdpirateConnected to 192.168.254.101.08:50
xdpirateEscape character is '^]'.08:50
xdpirateLogin failed.08:50
xdpirateConnection closed by foreign host.08:50
xdpirate44 people and no one can help? =/08:50
arctanxwhat's changed since you were getting connection refused?08:51
arctanxyou've managed to make something better at least08:51
xdpiratei reset the password08:51
xdpiratestill can't ssh or telnet =/08:51
xdpiratedid passwd -d root08:51
xdpiratebefore i set the password in the first place, everything worked fine08:52
arctanxif all the routing tables and interfaces look good, I'd be considering doing a tcpdump -i usb0 on the host PC and seeing what I could see08:52
xdpirateis the password stored in a file somewhere, that i can just delete?08:52
xdpirateor rather, a hash of the password08:52
shevekxdpirate: What does ssh -v say?08:55
xdpiratefrom host or nanonote?08:55
shevekThe way it doesn't work. ;-)08:55
arctanxxdpirate: A hash gets stored in /etc/passwd, naturally08:55
xdpirateit doesn't work neither way08:55
arctanxbefore a password is set, the hash field is set to !08:56
shevekSounds like a mismatch in host keys then.  But that doesn't bother telnet...08:56
xdpirateshevek and it says OpenSSH_5.1p1 Debian-6ubuntu2, OpenSSL 0.9.8g 19 Oct 200708:56
xdpirate(on the host08:57
shevekxdpirate: I mean ssh -v $other_machine_ip08:57
xdpirateoh08:57
shevekIt should be more verbose about what it's doing.08:57
xdpiratei'll pastebin it08:58
shevekOk08:58
xdpirategreat, no internet on host now lol08:59
shevekIsn't that the machine you're using for irc?08:59
xdpiratenope09:00
shevekOk09:00
xdpirateWindows PC and Linux PC09:00
arctanxxdpirate: Try setting the first line of /etc/passwd to this: root:!:root:/root:/bin/ash09:00
shevekOtherwise I was pretty sure you had internet. ;-)09:00
arctanxwith a bit of luck that will bring back telnet logon09:00
xdpirate;)09:00
xdpiratearctanx, thanks I'll try09:00
xdpiratesec09:00
arctanxnote that setting a root passwd to nothing with the "passwd" command is _not_ the same as the no-password initial config, which is done by the line I just copied to you09:00
xdpiratethat could very well be the problem09:01
shevekActually, you need to remove the second field in /etc/shadow.  The field in /etc/passwd is completely ignored.09:02
xdpiratemkay, it's set, rebooting nn (for good measure ;))09:02
arctanxshevek: What version are you running? I don't have shadow passwords in the most recent openwrt build09:02
xdpirateusername vanished, prompt just says @BenNanoNote:/# now :P09:02
shevekBut ssh refuses to work without a password.09:02
xdpiratemeh i don't care about ssh tbh, as long as i can telnet in i'm content09:02
shevekarctanx: Oh, that's possible, then it should work. ;-)  I have an old prototype and only today started trying to install the qi-hardware image on it.  So far I've only worked on my own kernel.09:03
arctanxxdpirate: For future reference, /etc/passwd is consulted every time it's needed, i.e. no reboot needed :)09:03
xdpiratekk ^^09:03
xdpirateHAH09:04
xdpirateresetting password worked09:04
xdpiratei now got a telnet connection going09:04
arctanxGood09:04
Action: xdpirate makes sweet, sweet love to arctanx's face09:04
xdpirateD:09:04
arctanx...09:04
arctanxback to homework09:04
shevekxdpirate: ssh is nice; it allows you to use sshfs and scp09:04
xdpiratehm about that09:06
xdpirateis there an ftp server available?09:06
xdpirateftp-ing files would be convenient09:06
xdpiratealso, 'root' vanished from console prompt, how do i bring it back? =P09:06
xdpiratenevermind, that's not too important :)09:08
xdpiratethanks alot for the help arctanx and shevek :)09:09
shevekYou're welcome.  I'm currently silent because I don't know the answers to your last questions. :-)09:09
xdpiratehehe :P09:10
xdpiratei tried adding another :root: in /etc/passwd (there was another in there from before), but it didn't help09:10
shevekYou should have only one line per uid and every name should appear only once.  Removing all the extra versions might get your name back.09:13
xdpirateso "root:!:/root:/bin/ash"?09:15
shevekEh, do your entries have no numbers in them?09:16
xdpiratethe ones below does09:16
shevekI expect something like "root:!:0:0:root:/root:/bin/ash09:16
shevek:09:16
shevek"09:16
xdpirateoh09:16
shevekwithout the newlines and without the trailing : ;-)09:16
shevekThat's what it looks like on my desktop, and AFAIK the format is the same everywhere09:17
shevekBut better make it look like other entries in the same file, than entries on some other machine.09:17
xdpiratethere we go, works :)09:17
xdpiratethanks mate09:17
xdpirateby the way, can you change the hostname? root@BenNanoNote, i'd like root@awesomebox or something :309:18
shevekHostname is set with the "hostname" command, which must be run during the boot sequence.  I don't know have openwrt does it, but Debian gets it from /etc/hostname.  If that exists, changing it (and rebooting) probably works.09:18
xdpirateawesome, thanks again! :D09:19
shevekOtherwise, grep -ir hostname /etc/init.d and read the file which appearantly does the change.09:19
arctanxIt's in /etc/config/system09:19
xdpirateah, there it is09:20
arctanxThere's also no hostname command built in09:20
xdpirate/etc/hostname didn't exist :P09:20
shevekarctanx: Oh, how does it set it then?09:20
arctanxBeats me :P09:20
shevekPerhaps it's possible to write it into some proc file...09:21
xdpiratei set my hostname to pussymagnet09:21
xdpiratehells yes09:21
arctanxshevek: Your intuition is correct :) /proc/sys/kernel/hostname09:22
xdpiratepussymagnet is too cheesy09:25
xdpiratehelp me think of a better name :309:25
arctanxxdpirate: Ah, sorry, I just realised that I had accidentally deleted the :0:0 in that passwd line, which is why that username disappeared and how shevek fixed you up09:26
xdpirateyeah, i figured :P09:26
xdpiratenps09:26
xdpiratehttp://boards.dingoonity.org/ben-nanonote/(release)-dex-v1-stable/09:29
xdpiratefeel free to use that subforum for anything NN-related, it's the only forum we have D: (omgmog created it earlier today on request from me)09:30
arctanxHas anyone seen this error? Could not initialize SDL: Unable to open mouse09:32
arctanxI'm getting it at the moment from both gmenu2x and gmu09:33
xdpiratearctanx, yes you must export SDL_NOMOUSE=109:33
xdpirateadd it to /etc/profile09:33
arctanxxdpirate: Great stuff, thanks09:34
xdpiratenps09:34
arctanxholy cow it plays music09:35
xdpiratexD09:35
xdpirateadd decoder and lib from dingoo version and you have mp3 support09:36
arctanxThanks but I'm not interested in mp309:36
xdpiratekk, assumed, seeing as it's the most popular music file format now-a-days :P09:36
arctanxHmm it not only plays music but also blacks out my screen permanently *scratches head*09:36
xdpiratehm, that's weird, i've never actually tried playing music with it yet09:37
xdpiratejust started it and got frustrated at the fact that i couldn't find out how to exit09:37
xdpiratewhich i later discovered to be alt+enter09:37
arctanxThat was using gmu09:37
arctanxFor what it's worth, ctrl-alt-f4 enter halt enter got it to shut down cleanly09:37
arctanxAnd it's back to life once I fire it up again09:38
xdpirateD:09:38
arctanxFar out this thing is potentially quite loud too09:41
calamarzcan the usb device be put in host mode?09:43
xdpiratenope09:43
shevekcalamarz: No; the chip has pins for usb host mode, but they are not connected to the outside.09:44
shevekcalamarz: The next version (Ya) will most likely have a micro-A connector for it (like newer mobile phones do).09:44
calamarzok09:44
arctanxaccording to the wiki, the SAKC has the host mode available09:47
shevekThat's incorrect, AFAIK.  The SAKC uses the Jz4725, where the host pins are not coming out of the chip.09:48
xdpirateconnect the pins to the outside, ????, PROFIT09:48
shevekxdpirate: If only it was so easy.  You would need to remove the chip from the PCB and do things there.  It's glued to it, and it's impossible to put it back and still have it working.  Building a new device (the Ya NanoNote) is the thing to do.  They do hope to make profit with it. ;-)09:52
xdpirateYeah, I'd buy it if it had a) USB Host and b) built-in wifi :)09:54
calamarzmmm and do you know if it could be possible to have the nn usb in device mode but without draining battery power from host?09:54
calamarzI'm thinking about coupling the ben with a freerunner I have... they seem a good couple09:54
xdpiratedon't think you can, it drains even when turned off, so i think that's hardware defined?09:54
shevekcalamarz: Hm, I don't know.  The power handling should then be set to not use the usb power...  Not sure if that's possible "normally", but what would certainly work is to create a custom cable with the red wire cut through. ;-)09:55
xdpiratei'm not too big on hardware, software is more my field, so i could be way out, but when the device charges even when shut down, it's generally not a software issue09:55
xdpiratei think they made it that way so you can use a usb to ac wallcharger09:56
xdpirateatleast my wallcharger works great in charging it =)09:56
shevekIt's certainly a hardware issue, but there is some logic in the battery controller and I'm not sure what it's capable of.  I don't think it's capable of anything, actually.  I'm still trying to figure out how it is possible that the device knows how much power is left in it.09:57
shevekxdpirate: That, and it saves a plug on the case.  The usb plug was needed anyway.09:59
xdpirateyeah09:59
calamarzhum... now I recall that maybe I can controll it in the host side10:00
calamarzclustering small devices together for some cpu intensive tasks seems something funny :)10:00
xdpirateto anyone that doesn't know about this yet: omgmog of Dingoonity created a forum for us to use, since we didn't have one. This might be good for both the Dingoo scene and NanoNote development, as Dingoo users might get interested in the NN by reading the board, and vice versa, NN developers getting Dingoos. Link: http://boards.dingoonity.org/ben-nanonote/10:06
wolfspraulxdpirate: I doubt it will have wi-fi built in10:08
wolfspraulat least I won't build a device like that, but since we have copyleft hardware maybe others can...10:08
wolfspraul(especially if they think that will make it sell like crazy, he he)10:08
calamarzwolfspraul: why not building wifi buil-in?10:10
wolfspraulproprietary technology, distraction10:11
wolfspraulseems quite a few people like SlowFi instead, our name for the HopeRF modules (ISM RF, 125kbit/s)10:12
xdpiratebuilt in wifi would boost the sales tenfolds, guaranteed, everything is online these days10:12
wolfspraulthat is great, then I'm sure someone else will do that10:12
calamarzwolfspraul: never heard about the hopeRF...10:13
calamarzbut yes, I see your point10:13
wolfspraulyeah we need to learn more about it, there were quite a few discussions about it on the mailing list already10:13
wolfspraulwe are not against wi-fi10:14
wolfspraulwe spent a lot of time to get the Spectec SDW-823 to work10:14
wolfspraulwe will definitely continue, but I doubt it will be built-in10:14
wolfspraulit will be external, microSD, USB Host, etc.10:14
wolfspraulbuilt-in & integration should focus on free copyleft technology10:15
calamarzI'm a big wifi lover, specially due to some big autonomous wifi communities... but scared about how the 3G pay model has spread making the consumers wanting to be 24/7 connected10:15
wolfsprauloh sure10:15
wolfspraulthere was a chance for wi-fi to be truly different, a few years ago10:15
wolfspraulbut it's gone10:15
calamarzyep10:15
wolfspraulthat was when people were excited about mesh and what not10:15
wolfspraulbut it's over10:16
calamarza friend of mine told me some funny stories about some place on india10:16
calamarzwhere the "wifi" is a guy in a motorbike that pass around village once in a week, and devices can "send" and "receive" stuff like mail on that ocassion :p10:17
wolfspraulniiiice!10:17
wolfspraul:-)10:17
wolfspraulI like those kinds of things, delay tolerant apps10:17
wolfspraulbeautiful10:17
calamarzwe're dreaming about trying similar things with some squatted rural communities in the mountains10:18
calamarzproxymity-devices that route packets in a f2f network... cyberpunk indeed :p10:19
emeb|macwolfspraul: got a link for slowfi? all I find on the goog is music-related10:20
wolfspraulhe :-) new name10:21
wolfspraulHopeRF RFM12B10:21
calamarzhttp://www.hoperf.com/rf_fsk/rfm22.htm ?10:21
wolfspraulthose are the newer 22/23 modules10:22
emeb|macgot it - thanks10:22
wolfspraulfor now some people check the 12b10:22
emeb|macthose are cute. Kinda like the TI CC* chips, or the Nordic stuff10:24
emeb|macLooks like there's lots of activity in that part of the RF space lately10:25
wolfspraulcorrect, like TI CC and Nordic10:26
wolfspraulemeb|mac: we are still evaluating this, need to make sure you are included so we can get every bit of brainpower on this we can find10:26
emeb|macsure10:27
emeb|macI'm looking at some development w/ TI parts right now.10:27
emeb|macinterface is simple - just SPI.10:27
emeb|macInterfacing on NN is a bit of an issue - not enough uncommitted GPIO.10:28
emeb|macdigging through the wiki last night I believe that I counted only 5 (?) unused GPIO10:28
emeb|macenough for just one or two SPI devices - might be workable10:28
emeb|maclooks like one would have to do bit-bang SPI though - none of the HW SPI & I2C ports appear available.10:29
wolfspraulthink you are right, need to improve this on Ya10:30
wolfspraulcalling it a day here...10:30
emeb|macWould be easy to free up some pins if the kbd scan drive lines were done w/ a simple decoder.10:30
emeb|macwolfspraul: cool - gn10:31
wolfspraulemeb|mac: your ideas on how to improve the hardware are very much appreciated10:31
wolfspraulwhen we start working on Ya (the actual kicad files), do you think you can provide input/feedback/review/etc?10:31
wolfspraulthat would be EXTREMELY valuable and if we can find actual contributors, we would definitely listen10:31
emeb|macSure - I'd be happy to.10:31
wolfspraulwow, great10:31
emeb|macI do schem. reviews for others all the time.10:32
wolfspraulexcellent!10:32
calamarza bit ashamed of asking this, but... what distance range could these hoperf give?10:32
wolfspraulunclear10:32
wolfsprauldepends on power, antenna design10:32
wolfspraulwhy ashamed? that's a very important question :-)10:33
emeb|macas iPhone, etc demonstrate it's really dependent on how the antenna is oriented.10:33
emeb|macdoesn't work worth beans if you put it in a metal box. :)10:33
wolfspraulprobably transfer speeds go down with distance10:33
calamarzall low-level related seems too arcane to me10:33
emeb|maceverything is low-level eventually... can't ignore it.10:34
emeb|mac(can hope someone else did it right)10:34
calamarzunable to translate specs to real-world measures most of the time :p10:34
wolfspraulemeb|mac: can you shoot me an email at wolfgang@sharism.cc ? I still keep track and follow up on some things by mail, sometimes loose track in irc...10:34
emeb|macwolfspraul: yep - email is good for low bw stuff.10:35
wolfspraulcalamarz: it will take time to really measure this10:35
wolfspraulit depends on a lot of things10:35
Action: emeb|mac has RF equipment 10:35
emeb|macspectrum analyzer, siggen, etc.10:35
emeb|macwolfspraul: email sent10:36
wolfspraulthx10:36
wolfspraulcalamarz: to give you an idea, many car key openers use similar technology10:37
wolfspraulof course they need to transfer very little data, and also they probably reduce the range because you wouldn't want to accidentally open your car from 100m distance10:38
wolfspraulso together with lower power consumption they probably fine-tune it to work over about 20-30m, I'd say that's what I think most car keys can do?10:38
wolfspraulbut if you design for distance, don't mind the power consumption, and design a good antenna, you can probably reach several hundred meters without obstacles10:39
wolfspraulso whatever, it will be anywhere from 10m to >100m I'd say. let's see what reality shows...10:39
emeb|macthat's about right.10:40
qwebirc37100Hi, where can i find the cad files for the nanonote?10:43
xdpiratecad files? care to elaborate?10:45
emeb|macwolfspraul: it's unclear to me from the wiki - are the unused JZ pins bonded (ones marked as X or NC on schematic), or not even brought to the PCB?10:45
wolfspraulqwebirc37100: no cad files10:48
wolfspraulone of the areas that awaits being freed :-)10:48
wolfspraulemeb|mac: probably not brought to the PCB, I think one page lists all test points, i.e. everything that is at least brought to the PCB10:49
wolfspraulxdpirate: it would be cool if we had some 3D files of the case published10:49
emeb|macwolfspraul: OK - I think I saw that page too.10:49
wolfspraulbut unfortunately all those tools are proprietary, so we are not sure how to continue10:49
xdpirateah10:49
xdpirateyeah10:49
wolfspraulNURBS, HeeksCAD, it's all not really usable for production10:49
wolfspraulwe could do 3D scans and publish STEP files, or even proprietary Pro/E files, but then what? what would people do with them?10:50
wolfspraulso for now, there is just nothing :-)10:50
wolfspraulmost valuable thing I want to free up next is production testing software10:50
wolfspraulthe guys from Elphel showed me some pretty cool things, they are the only serious copyleft hardware company I know with GPL'ed production testing software10:51
mobilelockedhey does anyone know how to unlock a samsung b3410 i dont know what lock it has my kid changed the password now i cant see my music messages contacts ect it says phone password and i dont know it10:51
wolfspraulthey basically run a HTTP server and PHP on their camera, and then script it like that from the host10:51
wolfspraulthat looks like a cool and flexible testing system to me, so maybe we can try it that way for the Ya...10:52
wolfspraulout now guys, cya10:52
emeb|macl8r10:52
mobilelockedl8ers10:52
mobilelockedany 1 know how to solve it pls?10:53
qwebirc37100so how is nanonote open if the plans are not available?10:53
emeb|macschematics are open10:53
emeb|macsoftware is open10:53
emeb|macwhat do you want to do w/ the plans?10:54
xdpiratemobilelocked, this is a channel about the Ben NanoNote mini-computer. by the way, most default phone passwords are 1234 of 0000, but that's all the help i can provide10:55
qwebirc37100im working on an open device my self and i wanted to know how the plans were put together to be sent to the manufacturer10:55
xdpirateor*10:55
calamarzwolfspraul: sounds really nice :)10:55
xdpiratecalamarz, wolfspraul has left the channel :P10:55
calamarzhehe10:56
mobilelockedsorry i just searched google for harware help chat and got this the default for samsung is 0000 u are right but my kid has changed the password ive tried google :(10:57
emeb|macqwebirc37100: ah - looking for design flow ideas10:57
qwebirc37100i looked at the pandora device and they talk about how they got there device manufactured in china but no one seems to be releaseing the plans10:57
emeb|macfrom what I can tell, the mechanical stuff is still very proprietary10:57
xdpiratemobilelocked, you should check at the manufacturers website if there's a way to reset the phone password then (very unlikely for security reasons), and if not, you'll have to take it back to your carrier or the store where you bought it and have them open it for you10:58
emeb|macevery mold shop has their own way of doing things10:58
qwebirc37100are the plans for the nanonote to be released in the future or is this "pretend" open like osx where the guts are open but all the stuf on the outside is as propritary as it gets?10:59
mobilelockedill take it back to the shop tx m8 bb guys sorry for getting the wrong chat room have fun :)10:59
xdpiratenp, hope it works out for you11:00
emeb|macqwebirc37100: only wolfspraul knows for sure. Sounds like he's trying, but the original design was proprietary and he has to pull it out into the open a step at a time.11:01
emeb|macqwebirc37100: there's a guy who hangs out on #beagle who seems to know a fair bit about cnc machining, etc. maybe he would have some ideas about the mechanical stuff11:03
qwebirc37100thanks for the tips on where to get help on the hw i guess every one is still trying to make open hw but not compleatly succeding sad.11:05
qwebirc37100has any one seen the cad files for VIA OpenBook i have seen the pictures but not the raw files?11:09
rafatuxbrain: there is a few more good packages on Jlime repo, so if you have jlime in sd, please remember to do opkg update. Also, there is a new rootfs and kernel with proper configured sound.12:46
kyaksometimes Ben's display just goes black14:19
kyaki can only access via ssh14:19
kyaki'm pressing buttons on Ben but the display is still off14:20
Textmodeweird...14:20
kyakwell it has happend several times now14:22
kyakwhat i noticed about Ben is that it is not robust at all14:23
Textmodewell, its still a work in progress from the software side.14:25
kyakyes, i really hope it's just the software :)14:25
kyakthough i haven't investigated a lot.. but the LCD flickering seems to be from hardware14:26
kyakdo you guyes notice the flickering of OpenWrt logo after startup?14:26
kyakit is not seen on the black background14:27
kyakso not visible in console14:27
Textmodeyes, I did notice that.14:32
Textmodepersonally though, I'm more bothered by the fact that its a TV screen, though I suppose you don't have a lot of choices with off the shelf components14:33
Textmode(and custom is a lot more expensive)14:33
kyakyes, we can just say "what did you expect from a 99 $ device?" and live with that.14:36
Textmodethey could of taken a mobile phone LCD like the dingoo...but then you'd have to hold it on an angle...14:37
kyakhere you are right, the viewing angle is perfect14:37
kyakthe material on case is quite strange.. it is greased up very fast14:38
kyakboth the keyboard and the case14:38
kyaki had to wash my hands several times :)14:38
Textmode(hot to mention various absurditities wrt the screen buffer, and the fact that you would have to (effectively) update side-to-side...its just unpleasent all round with an Mobile Phone LCD)14:40
calamarzsdl_frontend: ERROR: Could not initialize screen: No video mode large enough for 320x240 <-- gmu compiled in nn debian15:11
calamarzsomebody has some hint about what's wrong here ^^ ?15:11
xdpiratei had that error too, had to reflash to fix it =/15:12
wejplooks like there is something wrong with your framebuffer device15:13
calamarzthe 320x240 is the correct size, right?15:25
calamarzhmm... fbi seems to be working ok though15:26
xdpirate320x240 is correct yes, i found that when i tried updating sdl libraries on my nanonote, i got those errors15:26
xdpirateand even replacing them with the old ones again didn't fix it =/15:27
calamarzxdpirate: do you know if it has been reported working on debian? or only in openwrt?15:28
xdpiratei have no idea, haven't even tried out debian yet, sorreh15:28
calamarzgot it working on debian :)15:40
calamarzit was needed to copy the output of fbset into /etc/fb.modes15:40
calamarzsound not working yet but that's another story :)15:42
xdpiratesdl_mixer missing in action? =P15:42
calamarzshould have that module loaded?15:43
calamarzgot it working!15:57
calamarznext step, debian package :)15:57
rafatuxbrain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_Uf6khg3Mg16:09
rafabigger videos do not work well for me.. and that size works with this options in ffmpeg :16:11
rafaffmpeg -i final3.avi -ac 1 -ar 22050 -s 240x180 output.mpg16:11
xdpirateHi guys, just made an unofficial FAQ at our new forums over at Dingoonity - http://boards.dingoonity.org/ben-nanonote/ben-nanonote-faq/16:43
xdpirateFeel free to sign up and discuss there16:44
emebxdpirate: looks like a good faq16:47
xdpirate[:16:47
urandom_is there a reason to keep http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/index.php?title=Format_Data_Partition and http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/index.php?title=Ubifs_Startup seperated?18:15
urandom_merged them now18:36
xdpirateI added alot of information and tips/tricks on the unofficial FAQ: http://boards.dingoonity.org/ben-nanonote/ben-nanonote-faq/19:37
xdpiratethanks to arctanx for the location of the hostname, credited you :P19:39
Textmodewhen building openwrt-xburst, does anyone know what could cause "ERROR: please fix target/linux/mx2/Makefile"? Nothing strikes me as awry about that file, nor are there any other useful messages.19:44
urandom_Textmode dont worry, happens for everyone19:44
urandom_xdpirate nice FAQ19:45
xdpirateurandom_, thanks ^^19:45
xdpirateif anyone know of anything i should add, just let me know19:45
Textmodemy build also fails, "make -r world: build failed. please re-run with V=99 to see what's going on.", I assumed it was a result of that last error.19:46
urandom_no it wasnt19:46
Textmodeyes, I gathered that :)19:47
CongoZombieyo20:22
Textmodemeep!20:23
CongoZombieI don't suppose anyone could advise me how to use the git feature of openwrt to pull down the kernel sources?20:24
CongoZombieI've tried but it doesn't seem to work20:24
CongoZombieand the docs don't seem to shed any light20:24
TextmodeCongoZombie: what commands have you tried?20:34
xdpirateTextmode, I can't compile ne/nice editor for mips, do you know of a precompiled version?20:49
CongoZombietextmode: just tried to set it up with menuconfig20:50
wolfspraulkyak: you there?21:13
wolfspraulthe flickering is definitely a software bug, I think some fixes got into the new Linux 2.6.34 kernel that will show up in the new OpenWrt image in a few days...21:14
wolfspraulthe factory uses proprietary software for production testing, and every LCM is checked. When we showed them our OpenWrt software running once they said with this flickering no single device would pass :-)21:15
wolfspraulit's more pronounced in GUI than in console, like you said. let's see what 2.6.34 brings...21:16
wolfspraulTextmode: you said the LCM is a 'TV screen'? What do you mean with that? first time I hear this term...21:17
wolfspraulthe Ben type of LCM is typically found in digital cameras21:18
urandom_wolfspraul should translations in the wiki be written in formal or informal language?21:19
wolfspraulurandom_: hmm21:24
wolfspraulok let's just think together a little... correct me if you like21:24
wolfspraulthe wiki is a copyleft hardware wiki21:24
wolfspraulso in the end it's geared towards knowledge and production of copyleft hardware devices21:25
wolfspraulof course also software running on them, because that is very important also for production (testing)21:25
wolfsprauland for end users, although the focus of the wiki is not to document all free software projects, we can just point to the homepages of those projects21:25
Textmodewolfspraul: a computer screen's pixels are layed out in a grid, a TV screen's pixels are staggered21:26
wolfspraulso the language should (in the long run) encourage others to manufacture this hardware21:26
Textmodewolfspraul: you can see it if you have a magnifying glass (or good eyes)21:26
wolfspraulso I think the language should not be so informal that anybody with some sanity would stay away from this craziness21:26
wolfspraulon the other hand we are a new type of community, so it can be as informal as we still feel comfortable with21:26
wolfspraulgot my point?21:27
Textmode(in the CRT era, theres also differences in how the RGB sub-pixels are layed out (in a row on comp screens, and a triangle on TVs), but that doesn't seem to have carried over to LCDs.)21:27
wolfspraulit's not a party, it's still a serious copyleft hardware production effort21:27
urandom_wolfspraul yeah21:27
wolfspraulbut then it's a new style factory, for sure. open doors, every question answered, etc.21:27
wolfspraulurandom_: btw, thank you very much for your wiki edits, I said it already the other day.21:27
wolfspraulif you think I should do something, please let me know21:27
wolfspraulTextmode: I was just curious about the term 'TC screen' - is that your invention or a professional term for these pixel layouts?21:28
wolfspraulurandom_: I just planned to add Jon's freedom stack to the homepage, I think it gets the point across quite well21:30
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Vertical_freedom_stack.svg21:30
Textmodewolfspraul: probably has some specialised name, I know it as "TV screen layout".21:31
urandom_wolfspraul you also could make a page with style guide and legal stuff like to keep out mp3 from the wiki21:32
wolfspraulurandom_: oh definitely, I planned to do that21:33
urandom_wolfspraul so talking about language is it ok to adress people in german like i would be on first name terms with them since i think we are all a big community and all21:45
wolfspraultotally21:46
wolfspraulmy only concern would be if the language gets so funky that someone thinks we are all stoned21:46
wolfspraulbecause we do want to attract other (small) business to our cause, and really manufacture stuff, etc.21:46
wolfspraulI am just illustrating my thinking, since you do the German translation how you exactly interpret this is very much up to you. I'm glad you bring it up, it's important to get right.21:47
wolfspraulbe friendly, attract newcomers21:47
wolfspraulalso be respectful to people who have a different point of view21:48
wolfspraulso for German (since I'm German myself): first name definitely good21:48
urandom_ok :)21:50
Textmodepoo, looks like theres no one awake in #autotools...22:35
xiangfu:-)22:46
Textmodexiangfu: I don't use it by choice :P22:49
qwebirc33649I am a noob, does anyone know how to boot the gui22:51
urandom_qwebirc33649 what distro and what gui?22:52
qwebirc33649the stock gui openwrt22:52
qwebirc33649 I mean the stock distro22:52
TextmodeI guess he means the gmenu2x that comes in the latest flash22:53
urandom_so typing gmenu2x should do the job, but you have to have the latest openwrt image22:54
qwebirc33649ok let me try22:55
Textmodeit boots by default in the latest image, I found.22:55
Textmodehad a hell of a time killing it :)22:55
urandom_yeah it does22:55
qwebirc33649I get the messag /bin/ash: gmenu2x: not found22:56
urandom_have you reflashed your ben?22:57
qwebirc33649no do you have to do this, and why would I have to reflash it22:57
qwebirc33649?22:57
urandom_the image the ben is shipped with is very old and has no gmenu2x22:58
urandom_pls read this http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Updating_Ben_NanoNote_software22:58
qwebirc33649I ok I will look at this22:59
urandom_the procedure isnt easy yet so you can ask if you dont understand something22:59
qwebirc33649great thanks23:00
Textmodethe ben is really more directed at devs, from what I gather.23:03
Textmodeat least atm23:03
urandom_it could be very usefull for non dev people too but the software needs some improvement23:04
Textmodeyes, the hardware is fine, but software is very much in a state of flux, and rather peicemeal23:17
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