#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2010-06-09

nebajothrafa: good call00:05
nebajothrafa: going to install that now00:05
nebajothhey00:13
nebajothquestion for the room00:13
nebajothwhat did you name yours?00:13
rafanebajoth: I am using it in Jlime00:16
rafanebajoth: if we are happy with this I will add it to rootfs surely.00:17
nebajothcan you00:33
nebajothrafa00:33
nebajothexplain to me00:33
nebajoththe attraction of Jlime?00:33
nebajothis it particularly lightweight?00:33
nebajothdoes it have a decent package manager?00:33
nebajothwhat is the relationship between sharism and qi hardware?01:18
tuxbrainnebajoth: jlime has ben proved to work on sistems half as powerfull than BNN,  16MB RAM 133Mhz Sh3 proccessor (HP Jornada 680)01:24
tuxbrainsharims is a manufacturer a company, qi hardware is a comunity a group of entitities (companies, universities, individuals...) with the common goal of produce a 100% Copyleft Hardware (objective not achieved yet, but we are on it) and sharism has founded and is part of that community.01:27
nebajoththanks tuxbrain01:43
nebajothI appreciate the clarification01:43
nebajothwant to sign up for the site?01:43
nebajothsecond user?01:43
tuxbrainwhat is handle01:46
nebajothnick name01:46
nebajothwait01:46
nebajothdon't sign up01:46
nebajothI meant to remove that01:46
nebajothhmm01:47
nebajothit won't let me delete it01:47
nebajothits the only one it won't let me delete01:48
nebajothso I guess we keep it01:48
nebajothbut I changed what it was called01:48
nebajothto "Online Name"01:48
nebajothto distinguish it from "Real Name" which is optional01:48
nebajothgo ahead and sign up01:48
nebajothI'm still configuring stuff01:48
nebajothbut it would be good to get two users into the system so I can test friends and such01:48
nebajothand maybe start populating the activity stream :D01:48
tuxbraindone, waiting for the mail to confirm :) by the way, I have two nanos glamdril and stinger :P01:51
nebajothoh shoot01:52
nebajothtwo01:52
nebajothsweet tolkien names though01:52
nebajothum01:52
nebajothhow to handle 201:52
nebajothI guess ,01:52
nebajothI changed the field to "Hostname of your Ben(s)"01:53
nebajothjust in case you are not the only one01:53
nebajothxdpirate: http://www.nanohacks.org02:02
nebajothcreate a user02:02
nebajothjoin the groups I made02:02
nebajothmake your own groups if you've got some good ideas02:02
nebajothadd me as friend :D02:02
xiangfunebajoth: good job.02:03
nebajothtuxbrain_away: did the registration email not arrive?02:09
nebajothI may need to check my email server settings02:09
nebajothit got delivered to my gmail ok02:09
nebajothso I assumed it was good02:09
nebajothxiangfu: thanks02:09
nebajothjust trying to help :D02:10
xiangfunebajoth: I post it in my QQ group. hope somebody will join.02:12
xdpiratenebajoth, lol wup02:12
xdpiratenebajoth, lol sup02:12
xdpiratenice site02:12
nebajoth:D02:12
nebajothyay for buddypress02:12
xdpirate"the hostname you gave your ben" but it haven't arrived yet =(02:13
nebajothyeah02:13
nebajothpretend you haven't chosen the name already02:13
nebajothgo ahead02:13
nebajothhaha I made it required02:14
nebajothI should probably make it optional02:14
nebajothok02:15
nebajothits no longer required, xdpirate02:15
nebajothfill it in later :P02:15
xdpiratetoo late02:15
xdpirate:P02:15
nebajothrofl02:15
nebajothI knew it.02:15
nebajothI frigging knew it.02:15
nebajothcan't play a player02:15
nebajothmofo02:15
xdpirateluls02:15
xdpirateum02:16
xdpiratei can't log in02:16
nebajothregistration email02:16
nebajothI'll check the mailqueue02:16
xdpirateyou should put that on the 'success' page that you need to confirm account02:16
nebajothI thought it was02:17
nebajothin a little dropdown thing02:17
nebajothhow the heck did this thing send me email earlier02:18
nebajothdid you get an email?02:18
xdpiratey02:18
nebajothoh snap02:18
xdpiratei'm activated now02:18
nebajothwordpress is bomb02:18
nebajothI'm used to everything being hard02:18
nebajothFRIENDSHIP REQUESTED02:19
nebajothcan you create a gaming-on-the-Ben group?02:21
nebajothI've not personal interest in moderating that02:21
nebajothbut you seem to be into that kind of thing, judging from your dev blog02:21
xdpiratelol k02:22
nebajothawesome.02:23
nebajoththank you02:23
nebajothcan haz mention of specific nanonote model you target?02:24
nebajothwe will eventually haz Ya content02:24
nebajothSTYLE GUIDELINES02:25
nebajothNANOHACKS IS A TYRANNY02:25
nebajothDown with nebajoth!02:25
nebajothxdpirate: what is the status of your Red/Blue Pokedex?02:26
xdpiratenebajoth, it's now a Gen 1, 2 and 3 PokeDex :302:29
xdpirateit's ready for release basically, i just need to add Gen 4 pokeymanz02:30
nebajothyou'll carry it around with your handheld gaming systems?02:31
nebajothneat little satchel?02:31
nebajothpockets for each one?02:31
xdpiratehells yes, i bought an nds carry bag that'll hold both my Dingoo and my NN02:31
nebajothahahah02:31
nebajothyou should get a custom made one02:31
xdpiratemeh02:31
nebajothpick the fabric, fit it to you02:32
xdpiratelook at this02:32
xdpiratehttp://www.focalprice.com/detail_GN002B.html02:32
xdpirateit's freaking huge02:32
xdpiratei can use it as a man-purse02:32
nebajothits huge02:32
nebajothbut its not sexy02:32
xdpirateit can carry both my dingoo and my nanonote, sd card cases, usb cables, everything02:32
nebajothutility02:33
nebajothdefinitely02:33
nebajothbeauty?02:33
nebajothnot so much.02:33
xdpiratewho cares, it's not like i'm going to go flail my man-purse about in public02:33
nebajothpfft02:33
nebajothclearly not as vain as I am02:33
xdpirateclearly not ;)02:33
nebajoth:D02:33
nebajothmine is mostly a vim machine02:34
nebajothvim, cmus, and remind02:34
nebajothwho here has debian installed and working?02:55
nebajothcan someone pastebin the contents of their /etc/default/keyboard from a working debian install?02:56
nebajothI think I b0rked mine02:56
kyakhell yeah i'm user #4! :)02:56
nebajoth:D kyak02:56
nebajothFRIENDSHIP REQUESTED02:57
kyakACCEPTED02:59
nebajothHOORAY03:18
kyakI DON"T HAVE ZARRO FRIENDS03:19
tuxbrain_awaymmm will be anyone not friend of someone? ;)03:23
kyaki will not be not a friend for noone03:25
kyak:)03:25
nebajothI think so tuxbrain03:26
nebajothI think certain people won't get along03:27
tuxbrainI don like admin, he is in a lot of sites and communities and only and he use to be too bossy in any community03:27
nebajothand that if the site gets big enough03:27
nebajothhahaha03:27
nebajothinorite?03:27
nebajothhe is such a smelly jerk03:27
nebajothI hate admin03:27
nebajothhe constantly kicks me off game servers too03:27
nebajothI don't know how he keeps getting root privileges03:27
nebajothhe must be a crazy good hacker03:27
nebajothto root all those game servers.03:28
nebajothlike that.03:28
nebajoth..03:28
nebajothI'm tired03:28
nebajothI'm going to bed.03:28
nebajothgood night03:28
kyakadmin is a good friend of No Artist03:28
tuxbrainok you have worth it dude, ops he gone, he is really tired03:28
kyakwho is well-known for his hit "No Track Name"03:29
tuxbrainhahaahahaah03:29
tuxbrainyeah this is the really universal artist03:29
tuxbrainhis song is so long he had spreaded in pieaces all over the net03:30
kyakthe thing is: every time i listen to his song, i find something new03:30
kyakyou know, like this is the first time is lesten to it?03:30
kyakthe duration of this song is also different sometimes.. but i guess i have to blame those lame rippers03:31
tuxbrainkyak yes I know what you mean the  problem is he suffer a lot of plagiarism, a lot of times I found his caracteristich sound in a lot of other artist... a shame03:37
kyakoh! you reminded me of a question i had03:37
tuxbrainsocrates call it maieutics :P03:38
kyakcan copyleft hardware be called as a "GPL licensed hardware"? In this case, when other manufacturer takes NN specs and modifies it, and then sells their new device, must they release this as "copyleft" hardware, too?03:39
tuxbrainops sorry this is if you remember the answer03:39
kyakwiki says something different about maieutics :)03:40
kyakyeah, something like this.. maieutics is asking questions to a person how already knows the answer, but doesn't know about it :)03:41
kyaks/how/who03:41
tuxbrainso let start, :P, you know about Creative Commons Share alike licence?03:42
kyakmm, not yet. I can Google, though :)03:42
tuxbrainnot need to, is the the viral equivalent for other content than code to GPL03:43
tuxbrainthe exact licence equivalent is CC Attribution Share Alike, you can use this contents with the restrictions you should mention the source and share the ralized work under same licence.03:45
kyakok, i see a phrase "you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one"03:47
tuxbrainso production tips, eschemas, specifications, etc, etc on Copyleft Hardware is realeased under that licence so ... damn, I'm not socrates, the anwers is : yes of course03:47
kyakso if i wish, i may NOT distribute it03:47
kyaki'm reading here http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/03:48
kyaki'm free to share, but i'm not obliged to03:48
tuxbrainbut the hardware it self a result of the work so if you plan to create that hardware for others you should distribute the info :)03:49
kyak"Noncommercial  You may not use this work for commercial purposes." hm.. this is confusing03:49
tuxbrainnot this is another licences03:50
tuxbrainthere are various CC variants03:50
kyaki see03:50
kyakwhat is the exact license under which NN is distributed?03:51
kyakhttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/  - this one?03:51
tuxbrainhttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ yes03:52
kyak"you msut attribute the work" - what does that mean?03:54
tuxbrainyou must indicate the source of the content  material your work is based on03:58
kyakthen the answer to my question is "yes, other manufacturer can take NN specs, modify it, and then he MAY (or may not) distribute the resulting work"04:09
tuxbrainif he not distribute they work they infinge the licence04:10
kyakam i right?04:10
kyakbut there is a "may" in license04:10
kyakit's not an obligation04:10
tuxbrainif they manufacture the device, they are distributing his job04:11
kyakok, but the question is if they are required to fully open the specs of their device04:12
kyaklike it was for original device, NN04:12
tuxbrainok they can manufacture and just keep it in his selfs for ever04:12
kyaki didn't understand04:13
tuxbrainjust joking04:13
tuxbrainis the case of manufacturation without distribute , so it keep it on his wharehause.04:14
kyakthat's why i didn't understand :)04:14
kyakso let's say that manufacturing = further distributing, in most cases04:15
kyakare they required according to the license to provide the full "source code" of their modified device?04:16
kyakor they can laugh in your face instead?04:16
tuxbrainwolfgang:help! a clever guy is asking interesting questions!04:17
kyakinteresting questions? maybe! clever guy? not at all! :)04:18
tuxbrainclever than me :)04:18
tuxbrainnot such meritorious indeed04:18
kyakno-no, your brain is so tux, i can't compete :)04:19
tuxbrainok, wolfgang is out so I will try to do my best :) schematics are also distributed under that licence, to create a modified product you need to modify the schematics, so produt is builded upon the schematisc if you distribute the product you should distribute the schematics and due you distribute the schematics you should attribute the orignal schematics your work is based . TADA!04:24
tuxbrainaffining a little more:schematics are also distributed under that licence, to create a modified product you need to modify the schematics,  produt is builded upon the schematisc you modify that inherits the share alike and attribution, if you distribute the product you should point to your own schematics as source  and due you distribute the schematics you should attribute the orignal schematics your work is based . TATATADA!04:27
wolfspraulkyak: what is your question?04:30
kyakagain, i MAY distribute schematics which is based on original share-like licensed schematics04:30
kyaki as well may NOT distribute it04:31
kyakis that right?04:31
wolfspraulkyak: can you tell me in sequence what you plan to do?04:31
wolfspraul1. you take existing schematics/gerber/bom/whatever04:31
wolfspraul2. you produce your own product, and sell it04:31
wolfspraul3. your product is exactly the same as the current one, or with improvements?04:32
wolfsprauland then what?04:32
kyakwolfspraul: i have no plans at all :) this is just a theory. but you described it right04:32
wolfspraulsure it's theory04:32
wolfspraul:-)04:32
kyak3. my product is a modified version of original product04:32
wolfspraulis your product exactly the same or with improvements?04:32
wolfspraulok, but you want to keep your improvements secret?04:32
wolfspraulso when I email you "tell me more about what you improved", you just won't reply04:33
wolfspraulis that what you are saying?04:33
kyakyes. or even better, keep the whole device secret04:33
wolfspraulok, so I don't know much about ShareAlike enforcement04:33
wolfspraulthe FSF is very much interested in GPL enforcement, that's why they like gpl-violations.org so much04:34
wolfspraulI don't know how much Creative Commons is interested in ShareAlike enforcement, you would need to ask them04:34
wolfspraulwe are product people04:34
wolfspraulwe just put our 'stuff' under a cc-by-sa license because we _think_ it will help to remind people of what kind of behavior we consider cool, and we consider uncool04:34
kyaka question is IF the license is violated in this case04:35
wolfspraulis it enforceable? is it enforceable in this particular case (hardware manufacturing), don't know04:35
wolfspraulyeah04:35
wolfspraulneed to ask Creative COmmons04:35
wolfspraulthey created the SHareAlike license and one would hope that they want to make it a strong license04:35
wolfspraulthe FSF is proud when they win some court case where the GPL plays a rol04:35
wolfspraulrole04:35
kyakbut i though that the "may" word in the license is pretty much explanatory04:35
wolfspraulok but it's a legal question04:36
wolfspraulask Creative Commons04:36
wolfspraulare there any cases of known ShareAlike infringement, and resulting court victories?04:36
wolfsprauldon't know04:36
wolfspraulthe GPL is very much court proven04:36
kyakok, thank you both guys :)04:36
wolfspraulbut let me also add my 2cents04:36
kyakGPL afaik can go suck somebody's balls in Russia04:36
wolfspraulvery possible04:37
wolfspraulI am writing to you from China04:37
kyakJustice Ministry is not accepting GPL (or something like this)04:37
kyakbut originally i had this idea because of the following04:37
tuxbrainkyak I'm CC member I will forward you question to the CC, I also curious on the answer04:37
wolfspraulso first of all, most people that spend their whole time trying to find out how they can become good parasites will never ever achieve anything04:38
wolfspraulI think it messes with your brain04:38
wolfspraulI know many creative people, and they seriously never ever even spend 1 second thinking about this kind of thing.04:38
wolfspraulthey just create cool shit04:38
kyakthere are a lot of companies in China that steal here and there, from each other and from everyone. They can take NN as a starting point04:38
wolfspraulso for business people, also the question really goes the other way round - who has the balls to actually produce something?04:38
wolfspraulI think any sort of GPL or ShareAlike infringement is one the lesser concerns you have in that case04:39
wolfspraulnobody will do it04:39
wolfsprauland if they would at least I wouldn't care04:39
wolfsprauldo you?04:39
wolfspraulI focus on making great products. I wake up, start working, start having fun.04:39
kyakwhy wouldn't they do it?04:39
kyakdeveloping a device is quite an effort04:40
kyakin this case it was done free for them04:40
wolfspraulI put my stuff under GPL and CC-BY-SA because it makes me feel good, and I hope to encourage others to do the same.04:40
wolfspraulwell like you said in China everything is 'stolen' anyway04:40
kyaklet's put it like this04:40
wolfspraulactually it's not stolen as this has a negative implication, but in China it is just natural to reuse things04:40
kyakputting your device under open license makes it avaialble for legal stealing..04:41
wolfspraulouch04:41
wolfspraulvery twisted thinking04:41
kyakin other case, they would hust illegally stole it from you04:41
wolfspraulI hope it makes people feel joy and fun and contribute.04:41
kyakyes it does04:41
wolfspraulall this stealing stuff is just not my world04:41
kyaki'm speaking about "other side" :)04:41
wolfspraulI like those licenses because they encourage sharing.04:41
wolfspraulsharing not stealing04:41
wolfspraullet's stop stealing from each other, let's start sharing04:42
wolfspraulmuch better04:42
wolfspraul:-)04:42
wolfspraulwhere is the 'other side'?04:42
wolfspraulwho?04:42
kyakparasite companies.. who get all you development work for free, put nothing in it, just produce it, sell and profit04:42
wolfspraulwho is that? are they successful?04:43
kyakit depends on device04:43
wolfspraulbottom line - this doesn't exist04:44
kyaki'm into car security systems.. so we have this system, let's call it X. it's proprietary and closed. We've put a lot of development effort into it. Now we produce it and profit. The other day, another company is stealing from us, and selling much cheaper (because they don't have to put development cost inside the price)04:45
wolfspraulat least not in the way that you envision it04:45
kyakand they PROFIT04:45
wolfspraulis this your theory or did this happen to you?04:45
kyakIF we had shared it04:45
kyakIF04:45
wolfspraulI really doubt all that.04:45
kyakthey wouldn't have croseed the law04:45
kyakso we would have helped them04:45
wolfspraulbe bold, let's start sharng04:45
wolfspraulsharing04:45
kyakthis is a real story, btw.04:45
wolfspraulsharing is better04:46
wolfspraulnormally what gets stolen from you are customers04:46
wolfsprauloften in the form of your competitor hiring your sales people from you04:46
wolfspraulthose are nasty things04:46
kyaksure.. this are lost customers.. and lost money04:46
wolfsprauldid you share your technology?04:47
wolfspraulI don't get it.04:47
wolfspraulhow was it stolen?04:47
wolfspraulis your story a hypothetical story or real one?04:47
wolfspraulif I had a real business, and someone wanted to hurt me, they would go for the money. They would try to hire my sales people. Maybe my marketing people.04:47
kyakwe can only guess. maybe from the factory in China, maybe from our own company. Who knows?04:47
kyakthe real one04:47
wolfspraulso suddently this other company shows up and they have a product that has the same technology as yours04:48
kyakso i just hope you understand me04:48
wolfspraulright?04:48
kyakright04:48
wolfsprauland then your customers start buying from the other company04:48
kyakexact clone04:48
wolfspraulhmm04:48
wolfspraulisn't that a good way to proove that you should go open in the first place04:48
kyakyes, our potential customers are byuing it04:48
kyakbecause it's cheaper04:48
wolfspraulthat proprietary doesn't work?04:48
wolfspraulmaybe you focused on the wrong thing04:48
wolfspraulyou focused on proprietary technology, but you actually weren't able to enforce/execute the closedness?04:49
kyakimagine it would've been shared. what then?04:49
wolfspraulthen you would have never made the decision to focus on the wrong thing in the first place (in that story)04:49
wolfspraulmaybe you would have focused on lowest price first04:49
wolfspraulnot on best (closed) technology, which then was stolen anyway04:49
kyakthat's another problem that secret was stolen04:49
wolfspraulif you believe in closed technology, you better close it well :-)04:49
kyakagreed04:50
wolfspraulyes but that's what I am saying04:50
wolfspraulyou just didn't execute well04:50
wolfspraulif you believe in lock-down, you better have a strong lock!04:50
kyakok,ok04:50
kyakthe questions remains04:50
wolfspraulif it's broken, now you come to me, who does not believe in lock-down, and complain?04:50
wolfspraulI believe in open04:50
kyakimagine it would've been shared. what then?04:50
wolfspraulso I can focus on customer satisfaction and lowest cost from day 1.04:50
wolfspraulI don't think what has happened to you can happen to me.04:50
wolfspraulI already said it - then you would not have focused on the closedness of your product in the first place.04:51
wolfspraulmaybe you would have focused on customer satisfaction and lowest price.04:51
wolfsprauland then if that other company comes they cannot steal your business04:51
wolfspraulI am indeed not focusing on the closedness of what I build.04:51
wolfspraulit's open and shared from day 104:51
wolfspraul(although not 100% yet, we are working on that)04:51
kyaki'll tell you what would happen. We would've lost profit from the day 1. Not the the day Y, when it was stolen. And besides, the parasite company couldn't be sued in this case04:52
wolfspraulah, so you are suing them now and you believe that will recover your losses?04:52
wolfspraulthen all should be fine04:52
wolfspraulif you would have lost profits from day 1, you would have done things differently from day 104:53
wolfspraulthat's what we are doing here at copyleft hardware04:53
kyakthe loss cannot be recovered.. in this case, it's all lost already04:53
wolfsprauldo you think the lawsuit will help you recover it?/04:53
kyakNO04:53
wolfspraulok04:53
wolfspraulmaybe you should have done the technology open from day 1 :-)04:53
kyakthere is no lawsuit, btw04:53
kyakwe just have legal rights to stop this shit at customs04:54
kyakthat's all04:54
wolfsprauloh04:54
wolfspraulhopefully that works out for you04:54
wolfspraulcustoms is often in the middle of such conflicts and quite often to many arguments (read: bribes)04:54
wolfspraulanyway, go open04:55
wolfspraulthat's the way to go04:55
wolfspraulI think04:55
wolfspraulif you plan to produce any of our copyleft hardware stuff, please do so04:55
kyaki think nn is not cloned by some noname chiness manufacturer only because it's not popular.. there's no profit04:55
wolfspraulit you don't share your improvements back, I think at least socially that's very uncool04:55
zearwait, someone's clonning the nanonote?04:56
wolfspraulwhether we can force you legally into anything is then a question for GPL/CC-BY-SA and the local legal system04:56
wolfspraulnah04:56
wolfspraulall just 'what if'04:56
zearah04:56
wolfspraulI would love someone to clone it.04:56
wolfspraulI think it will take a few more years.04:56
zearthere is the 1GB chinese version already :)04:56
wolfspraulI'm all easy here, I am a 'noname chinese manufacturer'04:57
wolfspraulI could easily beat them in price even.04:57
wolfspraulyou guys don't know how lazy and greedy chinese companies actually are.04:57
kyakthis is the thing.. there is always a "chinese version" avaialable (of course only popular devices)04:57
zearbut since gpl is violated whole the time in china, i guess it's good that you have something in case nn hardware get's cloned04:57
kyak< wolfspraul> you guys don't know how lazy and greedy chinese companies actually are. - we know04:57
wolfspraulkyak: I guess you problem is that you cannot beat them in price.04:58
kyaksure we can't04:58
zearbtw, how are the nn sales after the slashdot article?04:58
kyakwe put EFFORT in developemnt04:58
wolfspraulI can.04:58
kyakthey didn't04:58
kyakwe HAVE to compensate for these efforts in price04:58
kyakdo you understand it?04:58
wolfspraulzear: it's beautiful04:58
wolfspraulwe sold about 70 or so04:59
kyaksorry, dinner,.. be back :004:59
wolfsprauldavid some more04:59
zearwolfspraul, wow, that's impressive :D04:59
wolfspraulzear: if you can help let's continue with blogs and stuff04:59
wolfspraulyes04:59
wolfspraulI'm a total believe in bottom-up, I am so happy about each individual sale.04:59
gbraadthanks wolfspraul, was a great meeting... 'awesome' ;-)04:59
wolfspraulzear: so total we sold about 750 to 800 now.05:00
wolfspraulbit hard to say some are always in stock here and there.05:00
wolfspraulbut what's most important is the various hacking efforts that are in motion.05:00
wolfsprauland blogging05:00
wolfspraulgood seeds05:00
wolfspraulOpenWrt, JLiMe, Debian, etc.05:00
wolfspraulso many things05:00
wolfspraulmaybe gbraad will make some Fedora moves, now or later :-)05:01
wolfspraulzear: you have some large event in Poland this year, don't you?05:01
wolfspraulWikimania?05:01
zearbut i guess all that counts from financial side is that you get rid of the whole batch (how many units that is, 1000?)05:01
wolfspraulany chance we can be present there?05:01
wolfspraulwe made 1000, yes05:01
zeari know about wikimania, but i rather won't be there05:01
wolfspraulno most important to me is to get good roots into the ground with the free model05:01
zearit's expensive, it's on the other side of the country, and i don't like wikipedia that much lately05:01
wolfspraulso 2.6.34 upstream effort is awesome05:01
wolfspraulI need to work on GPL licensed production testing software. that's a big piece that is still missing.05:02
freespacehow many of the thousand has been sold?05:03
wolfspraul750-80005:03
freespacethat's not bad05:04
zearthey are forcing the grammatically incorrect, but pro-feminist forms05:04
wolfspraulneed to make more soon, but also need to be careful because we are working towards Ya05:04
freespaceyeah05:04
freespacei mean05:04
freespaceya05:04
freespace\pun05:04
zearthe wikipedia guys, i mean05:04
freespacei will show myself the door05:04
wolfspraulso ideally we don't run out of stock with Ben, and have exactly 0 on the day that we start selling Ya :-)05:04
wolfspraulbut Ya is still at least 6-9 months out, and I enjoy the Ben ride right now05:05
wolfspraulwith that I mean the emerging free software and content on it05:05
wolfspraulso want to let that grow some more05:05
wolfspraulmore quality05:05
freespacenod05:05
freespacehopefully mine arrives tomorrow05:05
wolfspraulthank you for ordering one!05:05
freespacenp :)05:05
zearwolfspraul, is there an approximate price for the ya already?05:07
zeari'm thinking of getting one once it's out (or there are dev models available), but only if the price is comparable to the Ben05:08
wolfsprauloh no worries05:08
wolfspraulfirst of all I can already guarantee you the price will not increase05:08
wolfspraulthat's not hardware industry to me05:08
wolfspraulthere is only one way: down05:09
wolfspraulso maybe it will be 99 USD at the beginning05:09
zearah, great to hear that05:09
wolfspraulmaybe we will still offer Ben in parallel for a while, for 69 or whatever05:09
wolfspraulI want to drive all this down.05:09
zearso even with usb host and other improvements the price will not raise?05:09
wolfspraulof course not05:09
zeargreat05:09
wolfspraulthis is a hardware startup05:09
wolfspraulprice goes down, only down05:09
zearbtw, rafa got some success with the jlime port for ben05:09
zearhe'll prepare a nice standalone toolchain for me so i can port all the dingux stuff05:10
wolfspraulrealistically I think I have to start Ya with 9905:10
wolfspraulmaybe we can offer a little more margin to distributors at the beginning, to strengthen the distribution network05:10
wolfspraulright now all distributors essentially work for free, to help launch our copyleft hardware dream :-)05:10
zearbtw i know it was discussed at least 100 times before, but i don't remember if you guys decided ya is gonna have a way of wireless communication05:11
wolfspraulhe he05:11
wolfspraulI don't know, really05:11
zearheh05:11
wolfspraulof course we want it05:11
wolfspraulmany people seem to like the SlowFi idea05:11
zearjudging from the comments from the polish linuxnews article, that's what people demand05:11
wolfsprauland many people want Wi-Fi05:11
wolfspraulsure05:11
wolfspraulbut we are building a free house05:11
wolfspraulthe proprietary plasma tv is nice, but would ruin the character of our house05:12
zearthey would buy it if there was a wifi (but of course for me it can be even a proprietary wireless chip, just something to have net on it)05:12
arctanxwolfspraul: It's interesting... your description of your ideals for licensing suggests you're more interested in a BSD sort of model than copyleft. The reason the GPL spent time thinking about how companies could screw projects over was to avoid things like the X server being hacked by vendors and the users not having the same freedoms to modify/share/etc.05:12
gbraadSlowFI is Near-Realtime and reliable... good enough!05:12
wolfspraularctanx: hmm, I like copyleft05:12
arctanxEnforceability of a strong viral copyleft is important if the openness of the platform needs to extend to the end-user in all cases05:12
zearwolfspraul, that's a good point you have there05:12
wolfspraulbut I'm not a lawyer, so I cannot answer enforceability questions, definitely not globally05:12
wolfspraulI am in China guys.05:13
arctanxIf you just want the first-level developers using the platform to have the freedom, as you've described it will work fine05:13
wolfspraulthose are all very theoretical ideas for me, in my daily life.05:13
wolfsprauleven the whole patent system, only applies to maybe 20% of the world population05:13
arctanxI understand, you're a creator, not a lawyer :)05:13
wolfspraulnot just software patents, all patents05:13
wolfspraul:-)05:13
wolfspraulI don't like the BSD license.05:14
arctanxI really like the questions kyak is asking because when the project is taking off, people interested more in money than openness will start asking them too05:14
wolfspraulin fact companies that choose BSD over GPL on purpose mostly have a strategy to kill copyleft and free software in the end.05:14
arctanxIf someone can think of some answers, that's great05:14
wolfspraulso I do exactly the other way round05:14
wolfspraularctanx: those questions are totally theoretical05:15
wolfspraulif copyleft can only take off because it is enforceable, then it will never take off05:15
wolfspraulI think once it becomes cool, and the culture of copyleft and sharing becomes better understood, then it will take off.05:16
wolfspraulyou can ask me: send me a list of all the vendors you are buying from05:16
wolfspraulsend me the prices of components that you buy05:16
wolfsprauland I will give it to you05:16
wolfspraulin fact I will say "damned this should be on the internet so I don't have to answer the mail manually"05:17
wolfspraulthe only reason I don't have 'open accounting' yet is that we have to figure out how to keep the privacy related things like individual salaries or compensations anonymized.05:17
arctanxI'm not doubting your intentions of openness at all. I just think that enforceability and virality is a defining feature of "copyleft"05:17
wolfspraulyes, but it is not enforceable for 80% of the world's population anyway05:18
arctanxAs opposed to a free sharing community in building great hardware05:18
wolfspraulanyway, like I said. if copyleft only takes off because it's enforceable, then it won't take off.05:19
arctanxYou're right, it depends on more than that05:19
wolfspraulwe need to explain why hiding secrets, hoarding knowledge, keeping our neighbors and friends in the dark, is just not the right thing to do going forward05:20
arctanxWe're getting to the point of agreeing with each other differently, so I'll leave it at that :)05:20
wolfspraulyeah :-)05:20
zedstarwolfspraul: this is what sujan is attending in a few days and he is taking is ben to show off http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/events/indiasummerschool2010/05:28
freespaceheh, imagine MS wanting to take over this market by trying to get windows to run on it05:29
freespace(like they did with the eeePCs)05:29
zearyeah, good luck windows :D05:29
freespacemaybe an old version of NT05:29
zeareven if they get some version of windows to run on mips, they won't be able to port all the programs for it, because 90% are proprietary software by other companies05:30
freespaceyep05:30
zearthat's pretty much the nail in their coffin05:30
freespace(ph and wince)05:30
wolfspraulzear: nice, I see this is in India05:31
wolfspraul(sorry wrong nick, I meant zedstar)05:31
zearand i can't believe they still didn't do the "always on top" option for the windows05:32
wolfsprauldo Sujan and Rakhat from IDA Systems know each other? should I send a quick introduction email?05:32
wolfspraultypos, typos, I mean "Rakshat"05:32
zearwhen i have to work with windows sometimes and there's multiple windows on the screen, it's a madness05:32
freespaceis it still missing from vista/7?05:32
zeari was told that05:32
zedstarwolfspraul an intro would be good thanks05:33
zearthough haven't tested it myself05:33
freespaceok05:33
zearbut i asked the users of both vista and 7 and they told me there's no such feature05:33
zearfreespace, google lists some 3rd party programs for "always on top" for vista/7 so i guess it's missing it from the default config05:34
freespaceok, thanks :)05:35
Action: kyak back05:47
kyakwolfspraul: anyways, just to be clear. I'm totally with you guys on this. It is one the reason i've ordered NN, because of it's copyleft nature05:48
kyak*one of the reasons05:49
wolfspraulgreat05:50
kyakjust wanted to clarify some things to myself, but it only got more complicated :) it's always like that when it's about licensing/money/questiosn like that05:50
wolfspraulif you want to build a business out of it, please do so05:50
wolfspraul(although it's very risky right now, too risky :-))05:50
wolfspraulnobody here will complain about 'stealing' because we set this up to be about sharing from day 105:51
wolfspraulin fact, I need to say, not 100% are copyleft yet05:51
wolfspraulbut this is not the last trick I keep hidden up my sleeves, these are the parts we work on freeing next05:51
wolfspraulsuch as production testing software, case design, CPU05:51
kyaki don't want to build a business out of anything, i'm not a business man :) i'd prefer doing what i like, and this is not business05:52
kyakspeaking about my NN parcel, i'm starting to get worried05:55
kyakit arrived (imported) on the 5th of June in the morning05:55
kyakand not even at the customs yet05:55
wolfspraulkyak: which country is this?06:26
wolfspraul(that it's imported into)06:26
kyakit's Russia06:26
kyakbut there was a weekend in between, so i'll just wait..06:27
wolfspraulhmm06:28
wolfspraulRussian customs can be a problem, let's hope for the best06:28
kyakyep06:28
Tomyhi i need to install graphic card, but black screen is showing up, any solution??06:44
tuxbrainTomy:graphic card? on Nanonote?06:46
methril_workhi all07:32
tuxbrainHola Rafa07:42
qi-commitsXiangfu Liu: [xboot] output the cpu type http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/2b6017011:36
nebajothyes hello11:40
nebajothhave you all signed up for nanohacks.org yet?11:41
nebajothand could someone pastebin me the contents of their /etc/default/keyboard in a working debian install?11:41
kristianpaulohh nanohacks11:52
kristianpaulis that a forum style webpage?11:52
nebajothno11:54
nebajothits based on a wordpress plugin11:54
nebajothcalled buddypress11:54
nebajothit does integrate bbpress forums, but they're pretty simplistic compared to something like phpbb311:55
nebajothor vBulletin11:55
nebajothI think it'll be ok for threaded forum communication11:56
nebajothat least for now11:56
nebajothif we ever get a community so big that its hard to keep everyting straight, I'll migrate it out into its own discrete phpbb3 install11:56
nebajothI'm crossing my fingers that that will happen11:56
nebajothI still intend to install a CMS of some kind11:57
nebajothprobably Drupla11:57
nebajothDrupal*11:57
nebajothhmm11:57
nebajothon second thought11:57
nebajothnot sure we need that level of complexity11:57
nebajothI'm looking for something to manage articles and howtos by contributing members of the channel and mailing list11:58
nebajothI might just see how well wordpress itself can manage that11:58
nebajothits pretty impressive software.11:58
kristianpaulwhy not mediaki as qi does12:02
kristianpaulthe forum looks nice and also is a wiki :)12:02
methril_worknebajoth: i`m signing12:19
nebajothmethril_work: :D12:23
nebajothkristianpaul: ok12:23
nebajothkristianpaul: I'll install that first12:23
nebajothand see how it goes12:23
methril_worknebajoth: could you add portuguesse language?12:24
methril_workand it´s impossible to change the HArdware Hacking12:25
nebajothsure methril_work12:25
nebajothI almost did originally12:25
kristianpaulnebajoth: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_setup12:26
kristianpaulmay help you12:26
kyakguys12:47
kyakdo you think we need a bot in this channel?12:47
kyakkeeping seen/stats database for instance, maybe something else useful12:48
kyakor maybe its here already? :)12:48
kyak!seen *12:48
kyaknot yet12:48
nebajothyessss12:50
nebajothbotttt12:50
kristianpaulqi-commits: ?12:51
kristianpaulqi-eggs: ?12:52
kyakqi-qi :)12:53
nebajothqibot12:57
methril_workqibot +112:59
kristianpaulabosolutelly13:00
larscqibot -113:00
kyakso i guess it's a "yes" for the bot.. it's never too late to decide on a name13:04
nebajothit can always be changed later13:05
nebajothI think people will adapt to the change13:05
nebajothwho's putting it up?13:05
kyaki can do it13:05
nebajothI'd think it would make most sense on the same machine as our VCS master?13:05
nebajothwhich brings up the question13:05
nebajothwhat are we putting into VCS as a community?13:05
kyakmmm. then guess i;m not doing it :)13:05
nebajothdo we have anything centralizing development?13:06
nebajothI bet we don't.13:06
nebajothI bet the sharism dudes have something like subversion13:07
nebajothand a bunch of projects in that13:07
nebajothbut that we don't have write access13:07
nebajothok, we need a forge13:07
nebajothto centralize projects13:07
nebajothor13:07
nebajothhmmm13:07
nebajothlaunchpad, anyone?13:08
nebajothsorry, I know this feels like a derailing from bot13:08
nebajothbut the bot will mostly be for reporting commits, I imagine13:08
kyakit doesn't have to be on the same machine13:09
nebajothno it doesn't13:09
nebajothcould just cron a check13:09
kyakit can pull information via rss, or something else13:09
nebajothyeah sure13:09
nebajothwell, what do you have to host it on?13:09
kyakmy personal server13:09
kyakwhich is supposed to be 24/7.. but. .this is a home connection, so everything can happen13:10
nebajothbeen there13:10
nebajothI'll host it13:10
nebajothI haz ISP infrastructure13:10
nebajothI prefer supybot13:11
nebajothas its what I've used in the past13:11
nebajothanybody have a distinct preference for something else?13:11
kyaki have experience with eggdro ponly13:11
nebajotheggdrop is perl, no?13:11
kyaknope, it supports tcl scripts13:11
kristianpaulnah13:12
kristianpaulbots..13:12
kristianpaulbetter humans :)13:12
kyakand actually, eggdrop is considered to be "industry standard" for irc bots :)13:13
nebajothok13:13
nebajotheggdrop it is13:13
kristianpaulat least it dint speak with no reason13:14
kyakso how do we proceed?13:14
kristianpauloh egg looks serius C coded bot13:15
kyakyes, it's a bot with a long and glorious history :)13:16
nebajothsudo yum search eggdrop13:16
nebajothwoop13:16
nebajoth1.6.19-4.el513:16
nebajothancient?13:16
nebajoththen again13:17
kyakno, pretty decent13:17
nebajotheggdrop hasn't seen a release since 200813:17
nebajothI assume that's because its rock solid13:17
kyak[ 14 May 2009 ]: Eggdrop1.6.19+ctcpfix released13:17
nebajothnot because there's a lack of developers13:17
kristianpaulStable release 1.6.19+ctcpfix  (May 14, 2009; 12 months ago (2009-05-14))13:17
nebajothpwnt13:17
nebajothok13:17
nebajoththere an rp?13:17
nebajothm?13:17
nebajothoh13:18
nebajothsoz, that's what this is probably13:18
nebajothok installed.13:18
nebajoth :P13:18
kyaknebajoth: i'd prefer building from source. There are seen and stats modules which have to be compiled anyway.. Besides, there's an UTF-8 and SSL patch13:18
nebajothchrist13:18
nebajothyou sure you don't want to install a nice clean python bot?13:18
kyakas long as you're doing it, you should do what's more convenient and known to you13:19
kristianpaulinfobot?13:19
zedstareggdrop is in openwrt so u can run it from a dedicated ben ;)13:26
kristianpaulor a router13:31
kristianpaulhmm13:37
nebajothhold on13:59
nebajoththat's brilliant, zedstar13:59
nebajothwe should utterly run13:59
nebajothqibot on a ben13:59
nebajothofc, that requires a ben permanently tethered to a larger computer13:59
nebajothtuxbrain: care to donate one to the cause?13:59
nebajothkyak: what about building an openwrt opkg of eggdrop with the UTF-8 and SSL patch, and the seen and stats modules?14:02
kyaki tried it once for my linksys wrt54-gl, but it failed for some reason i don't remember14:03
tuxbrainwhat's the reason to have a bot?14:03
nebajothtry again and keep a copy of your .bash_history for nanohacks?14:03
kyakbut i'll try again when i get NN here :)14:03
nebajothit provides glue between chanmembers, and relevant updates from the outside world can be posted here in a timely manner14:04
nebajothlike new rootfs releases14:04
nebajothkyak: awesome14:04
qwebirc62961hello could you help me where can i use graphical interface with nanonote ?14:28
qwebirc62961I'm happy to receive my item today14:29
xdpiratenebajoth, http://www.qqmore.info/ :)14:33
qwebirc62961thanks14:36
xdpiratekek ragequit14:37
nebajothwoop, thanks for the mention, xdpirate14:42
xdpiratehehe you're welcome14:42
xdpirateWitam, zear =)14:43
zearxdpirate, hey there (too lazy to look up nowregian for "hey" ;P)14:53
xdpiraterofl ;p14:53
xdpirateit's just hallo or hei :P14:53
zearand "witam" is "I welcome (you)". It sounds more private. If you want to say "Welcome on this channel", i'd use "witaj", which is more "We all welcome you here" :)14:57
zearpolish is funny ;P14:57
xdpirateah nice :P14:58
xdpiratesounds complicated enough14:59
zearyeah, i recently read some text book for foreigners that want to lear polish14:59
zearand i realized that polish is really complicated14:59
zear*learn14:59
zearthe "m" in witam stands for "I", and the "j" in witaj stands for "you"15:00
zearboth are correct, though "witam" sounds more like you and you only want to greet me15:01
coatis there a troubleshooting section somewhere for the nanonote?16:04
emebFedEx just delivered my NanoNote. Cute!16:09
zearcoat, i believe this channel works as such a place :)16:10
coatawesome :)16:10
coatwell, i just received my nanonote yesterday, and everything's been working great.  i left it on and plugged in during lunch, came back and it won't turn on16:10
zearhmm.. isn't that the issue kristoffer experienced with his nanonote?16:11
coatthe only response i get is when i unplug the usb cable and plug it in, the red LED turns on for a split second and turns off16:11
zearthat indicates the hardware should be fine16:11
zeari'd say reflash the firmware16:11
zearyou probably have an ancient version of it anyway16:12
coati can't seem to get it to boot into usb mode though :/16:12
zearmaybe it's a bug that was already fixed, as i never experienced a similar behaviour with my nanonote16:12
coater usb boot mode i mean16:12
zearok, do you have the carbonized rubber button in the box?16:13
zearyou'll need to use either it, or something else to short circuit two pins on the back of the nn (behind the battery slot) to put it into the usb boot mode16:13
coatthat's what that was :) ...left it at home.  does it need to be shorted the entire time, or just when turning the device on?16:14
zearit needs to be shorted ONLY if you want to put it into usb boot mode16:14
zearit is a kind of a service mode16:14
zearyou need to switch it to that mode only if you want to flash the device16:14
zeari remember someone having a similar problem lately, i told him to reflash the firmware and he had no more problems since then16:15
coatok cool.  yeah i probably have an old version of the firmware then16:15
zearif when you plug your NN to the usb line and the led turns on, but the screen stays black, it means the u-boot (bootloader) doesn't work16:16
zearyou need to reflash it16:16
emebquick question - how to remove the "OpenWrt" splash screen and get full-screen text console?16:16
zearemdete, ctrl+l16:16
emebcool - thanks!16:17
zearcoat, need help with putting the device into usb boot mode?16:17
coatmy high school electronics class is failing me, but would a piece of metal (like a paper clip) be enough to short the pins? i don't have the carbonized rubber with me16:18
zeari was told paperclip is not enough, but a rolled up aluminium foil should do the job16:18
zearbut again, i was only told that, i don't know much about electrical conductivity16:19
sdschulzeIt's not a problem of conductivity.16:21
nebajothI did it with aluminum foil16:22
nebajothI had to press hard16:22
sdschulze(would be very weird if a lot of current needed to flow there)16:22
nebajothbut it worked great16:22
sdschulzeBut it might be a problem of contact.16:22
nebajothsmall piece pressed flat against the two contacts16:22
nebajothmy bare finger16:22
nebajothtouching the aluminum16:22
nebajothand it worked16:22
nebajothand it didn't shock me :P16:22
nebajothat least not so that I noticed16:23
nebajothand my Ben still functions very nicely16:23
zearoh so a bare finger should be enough?16:23
nebajothand I did it like 15 times16:23
nebajothyep16:23
zearbecause i have a lot of problems shorting it with the rubber button16:23
zear1/30 tries work16:23
nebajothit wasn't 100% with the aluminum either16:23
nebajothbut I had better luck16:23
zeari think my finger should be more accurate as i can feel when i touch the pins16:23
nebajothmore like 50%16:23
nebajothyes exactly16:23
sdschulzeThe rubber solution is probably the best.16:24
nebajothand if you clamp against the plastic above the function keys you can get a good grip16:24
nebajothand press quite firmly16:24
zedstarjust boot holding down U to go to usb boot mode16:24
nebajothit doesn't work if the bootloader is corrupt16:24
coatjust raided the office break room looking for aluminum foil, but no luck.  might be a sign i should get back to work16:24
nebajothhaha16:25
sdschulzesome short and thin copper cable maybe?16:25
zedstarshipped with corrupt bootloader?16:25
zearzedstar, who knows, i remember early reports by kristoffer about a similar behaviour16:26
zear(he left his nanonote for ~ 1 week and it was non functional afterwards)16:26
coatit's been kinda funky since i got it.  sometimes couldn't turn it back on without either taking the battery out or pressing the reset button16:26
zearand recently someone has an exact problem as coat with his newly bought nn16:26
zearand reflashing the firmware helped for him16:27
zear(or at least we got no new complains)16:27
coatdid he have the same issue with LED if you know?  briefly turning on and then back off when you plug the usb cable in16:28
zearthe led turns on when it charges the battery16:29
zearwhen there's no battery, or the battery is fully charged, it just blinks and then stays off16:29
coatoh ok good16:29
zearand when your bootloader is screwed up, that's exactly what happens16:29
emebinteresting that there's an httpd running, but nothing in the /www dir so when you browse to it you get a 404.16:43
emebShould at least put a copy of the splash screen in there...16:43
nebajothtuxbrain: ping16:44
zearemdete, i believe it's a leftover from the owrt16:52
xdpiratehow many characters can you fit on a line in the default openwrt console? and how many lines?16:52
xdpirate(still don't have my nanonote)16:53
zearxdpirate, what's the current status of the delivery?16:54
xdpirateit's in my closest city, it will be here tomorrow16:54
zearoh and if you plan to carry it in your pocket, remove the rubber legs16:54
zearas they like to fall off like in the dingoo16:54
xdpiratelol k16:54
zear(though they are more firmly attatched)16:55
zearbut i already lost 316:55
xdpiratecare to check the console for me zear? line width x height?16:55
zearyep, just need to charge the battery first, one moment16:55
xdpiratein terms of characters fit16:55
xdpirateawesome16:55
zearit's less than the standard terminal, that's for sure16:55
xdpirateyeah16:55
xdpiratemy 18 character line length word wrap in dex is looking ugly with the newer pokemon entries16:56
xdpirateso i'll just wrap it to the bens width :)16:56
zear39x1516:57
xdpiratelolwut, not 40? :P16:57
xdpiratethanks man :)16:57
zeari think it's 3916:58
xdpirateah the last spot is occupied by the blank space between the characters16:58
zearunless i can't count, which is possible ;)16:58
xdpirate320 (screen width) / 8 (font width) = 40 (characters fit, without space between them)16:58
xdpiratebut then again there might be a different font and stuff16:59
xdpiratethanks zear, i'll use 39 :)16:59
zearno prob ;)16:59
coatis there a way to change the console font size, or do you need to use a framebuffer?16:59
zearyes there is a way16:59
zearone simple command, though i forgot it :D16:59
zearand you need to have a new font file, too17:00
xdpirateif it has a 40x15 terminal then the font size is 8x1617:00
xdpiratei'd love an 8x8 font (like the one in the kernel i built for dingux this morning), could fit more on the screen17:00
xdpiratethen we'd have 40x30 :)17:01
zearxdpirate, nanonote's screen isn't like dingoo's17:01
xdpirateit's 320x240 right17:02
zearyes, but the leds (or whatever is used in it) are placed differently17:02
xdpirateright.17:02
xdpiratethat doesn't apply to the console fonts then :P17:02
xdpiratecoat: "Console fonts are stored in the `/usr/share/consolefonts' directory as compressed files; to install new console fonts, have the system administrator make a `/usr/local/share/consolefonts' directory and put the font files in there."17:02
zearyes it does17:03
zearit's a hardware issue17:03
zearlet me demonstrate, one sec17:03
xdpiratecoat: "To set the console font to the scrawl_w font, type: "$ consolechars -f font_name"17:03
coatyeah it's like every other pixel is offset from the others by just a bit.  probably affects readability a bit on smaller fonts17:03
xdpiratecoat, http://dsl.org/cookbook/cookbook_20.html#SEC31817:03
xdpirate:)17:03
xdpirateah aw, why17:04
xdpiratean 8x8 font should still be readable though?17:04
zeari don't think so17:05
xdpiratethe 4x6 dingux default is horrible, hence why i made a kernel specifically with 8x817:05
zearthis is dingoo's and nanonote's LCD in a big zoom: http://wstaw.org/m/2010/06/09/lcd.png17:05
xdpiratewat17:05
zearso you can see that small fonts are very disorted17:05
xdpirateo_O17:05
xdpiratehttp://www.qqmore.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/09062010900.jpg17:05
xdpiratedo you have a closeup of the nn screen zear?17:06
zearthere should be one17:06
zearhttp://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/wolfgang/beads_colors_normal.jpg17:06
zearyou can notice on the openwrt logo that the lines are never stright17:06
xdpirateaw17:07
xdpiratethat sucks17:07
zearit's perfect in the sunlight, though17:07
xdpiratewhy would they place the pixel matrix like that17:07
zearno idea, low price?17:07
xdpirateprobably17:07
zearor maybe that was the part of the original design17:07
zearas the nanonote is based on some chinese dictionary device17:08
xdpiratehm17:08
xdpirateanyone know what lcd controller it's using?17:08
zearthis thing: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/thumb/a/a3/Loose_Hinge.ogv/mid-Loose_Hinge.ogv.jpg17:08
xdpiratemaybe you could throw a dingoo replacement screen in there17:08
zearhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/LCD17:09
coatthat explains the weird button placement then :)17:09
zearcoat, to some extent yes :)17:09
xdpirate:P17:09
zearthough the button captions were reworked17:09
xdpiratezear, think a dingoo lcd screen would work out of the box?17:10
zearjust recompiling the kernel with the dingoo's lcd driver should be enough17:10
zearunless there's some hardware differencies17:11
xdpiratehm17:11
zearanyway: http://www.365.com/product/528631.shtml17:11
xdpirateheh, looks exactly the same :p17:11
xdpirateoutside, that is17:12
zearbecause it is the same thing, except 1GB nand17:12
coatthe pocket dictionary is $200 compared to $99 for the NN17:14
zearwell.. 1) buy the nanonote 2) flash it with the chinese firmware 3) ??? 4) profit17:15
zearif there are firmware dumps, of course ;)17:15
xdpiratenice lol17:15
nebajothI found 10 font size to be the minimum for legibility17:22
nebajothwith fbterm17:22
nebajothit looks pretty good17:22
nebajothnot as good as default17:22
nebajothbut readable17:22
nebajothbrb17:22
coati found a bit of copper wire and was able to get it into usb boot mode.  i ran reflash_ben.sh but it's telling me 'Error - can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110'17:48
zearcrap :/ that's what i'm getting when i boot it with the button combo17:50
zearbut when i set it to the usb boot mode by short cirtuiting the pins, it's always fine17:50
zearcoat, you'll need assistance of someone who has a greater knowledge about the flashing process17:50
zearlike larsc17:51
zearin the meantime you can try to boot it on a different pc17:51
coatk i'll try that17:51
coattyping just usbboot, it seems to find the CPU type17:52
coatwonder if i should try the 'Alternative to using the reflash_ben.sh script' instructions on the wiki17:52
zearyeah, but with error -110 it's a no go17:52
coatk17:52
zearthe script executes the same command17:52
urandom_the reflash_ben.sh never worked for me but the alternative worked well17:53
zearurandom_, same ;D17:58
xdpirateSome dex updates and information sources - http://www.qqmore.info/?p=4418:14
urandom_xdpirate nice, hope you get your nanonote soon18:18
xdpirateyeah it'll most likely be here tomorrow :D18:19
Action: FrankBlues waves18:20
FrankBluesHas anyone played with the Jlime distro?18:21
zearFrankBlues, so far only rafa :D18:34
rafaFrankBlues: now we will have mplayer thanks to zear ;)18:37
rafa(in jlime)18:37
zearnah, thanks to you rafa :P18:37
zeari only just gave you the right sources18:37
FrankBluesOooh?18:37
zearrafa, show the yt video ;)18:38
FrankBluesIn Jlime opkg is reporting a bunch of X stuff available as well as GPE - does any of it work?18:38
FrankBluesopkg install mplayer?18:38
FrankBlueso_O18:38
rafaFrankBlues: mplayer will be an extra package18:38
rafaFrankBlues: for the stuff on repository it is well built18:39
coatdarn, tried another computer and still got 'Error - can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110' :(18:39
rafaFrankBlues: but those applications would need some manually config files to work on 320x24018:39
zearcoat, :/18:39
zearyou will really need a help from some core devs18:40
zearlarsc, you there?18:40
rafaFrankBlues: I can make a opkg mplayer for jlime if you need it18:40
FrankBluesrafa: That would be sweet~18:40
FrankBlues!18:40
rafaFrankBlues: I have some extra work previously, but I will do that today18:41
rafaFrankBlues: did you install jlime? was it hard?18:42
FrankBluesIt was easy once I realized that I needed one ext2 partition, and to put uImage on that partition instead of a fat16 one.18:42
larsczear: yes18:42
zearcoat, is the usb port you are connecting your nanonote with a direct usb, or rather a hub?18:42
zearlarsc, coat here has some serious problems with switching the nanonote into the usb boot mode18:43
coatdirect18:43
FrankBluesI might scrap debian for jlime, it seems faster and I've had lots of keyboard issues in debian.18:43
rafaFrankBlues: please, tell me how you installed it. You did just the ext2 partition?18:43
zearwhen short circuiting the usb pins18:43
rafaFrankBlues: on microsd?18:43
zearlarsc, he's getting the "Error - can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110"18:43
rafaFrankBlues: I wrote the jlime installation.. but I just tested fat+ext2+swap18:43
larscthats timeout18:43
zearlarsc, hmm.. and when does a timeout occur?18:44
FrankBluesOn a 256mb sd I have about 180 as ext2 and the rest as swap18:44
zearbecause i have a similar error when i boot with the power+u18:44
larscif the nanonote does not respond in time ;)18:44
larsccoat: have you tried a different usb cable?18:44
zearlarsc, how to prevent it?18:44
zearah, right, different cable, of course :D18:44
larsczear: i have no idea18:44
coati am using a different cable then what came with the device18:44
rafaFrankBlues: too weird :(18:45
larscwell, wolfgang said that he noticed that some usb cables just don't work18:45
FrankBluesI think I might have a funky bootloader though...18:46
FrankBluesIt's still the one for using with debian - and that expects everything in one ext2 partition.18:46
coati'll the included cable when i get home18:46
rafaFrankBlues: ah.. great.. could you give me a link of that bootloader?18:47
FrankBluesrafa: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.bin18:48
FrankBlues(from http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Debian)18:49
rafaFrankBlues: ah.. perhaps the same that I uploaded to jlime.com18:49
rafait is too weird.. that bootloader (if it is the same that I uploaded) should load kernel from fat partition.18:50
rafabut if it does not.. then I am confused :)18:50
FrankBluesEvery time I tried from fat it barfed.18:50
rafaFrankBlues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NQKpqWG-RI18:50
FrankBluesI don't remember the exact error message but it was something about not finding uImage.18:50
FrankBluesrafa: wow!18:51
tuxbrainrafa:epic!!!18:55
tuxbrainwow wow wow, but the video is running faster than expected isn't it?18:56
zearit's a very low res video18:56
zeari want to see a 320x240 one18:56
rafazear: give me a link18:57
tuxbrainwhat format you need18:58
rafatuxbrain: the video is low res that is why I think18:58
rafatuxbrain: what mplayer uses18:58
rafa320x240 avi should be okey no?18:58
zeari think so18:58
tuxbrainogg? mpg? avi?18:58
tuxbrainavi18:58
tuxbrainok18:58
zearogg won't run18:59
rafatuxbrain: or give me 3 links and I will test :)18:59
rafazear: no? :(18:59
zearat least it doen't run on dingux, and that is based on the same sources18:59
rafaargh..18:59
rafawolfgang will not be happy with me :D18:59
zear:D18:59
zeara matter of compiling with ogg support, i believe18:59
rafamplayer for mp3 and avipatented.. and no for ogg!18:59
rafazear: but mplayer asked me to install ogg libraries19:00
rafawell, I can test19:00
zearoh19:00
rafatuxbrain: link link link19:00
zearthen we'll see ;)19:00
tuxbraindont' streess me man I converting some and uploading in parallel searching for already done on the web19:01
rafatuxbrain: btw, I have not able to config the sound properly (in jlime) yet, that is why the video speeded a bit as well19:01
rafatuxbrain: don't stress me : ;-))19:01
FrankBluesrafa: Does X / gpe work in jlime?19:07
rafaFrankBlues: all the stuff should work, just that you need to config stuff. For example, you can install xserver xfbdev.. but it will not work if you do not have the proper command line arguments for the userland and kernel19:10
rafathe same for other packages which need to be configured.19:10
rafaThe jlime repository has just binaries will work always in jlime distro, but that does not mean that these will work as we need ;)19:10
FrankBluesopkg keeps giving me errors when I try to install xserver-kdrive-fbdev19:11
tuxbraindamn all vids I found are roted 90º19:11
rafaFrankBlues: if you try some odd stuff (X, gpe, etc) from jlime repo and it works for you after to config properly, please, let us know19:11
FrankBlueskk19:12
FrankBluesrafa: http://pastebin.com/188B9YGM19:12
rafaFrankBlues: let me check19:13
rafaFrankBlues: that looks like a filesystem error.19:14
rafaFrankBlues: BTW, do you have jlime installed?..19:15
rafaI just opkg install xserver-kdrive-fbdev19:15
FrankBlueson the sdcard, yes.19:15
rafaand this is the output :19:15
FrankBlueshmm... wonder if I should fsck...19:15
rafahttp://pastebin.com/imAwu0aQ19:15
rafait needs several packages.. perhaps you installed others before. But the error looks like problem on filesystem19:16
rafatuxbrain: :(19:16
rafaFrankBlues: I uploaded a new jlime rootfs yesterday. Perhaps yours is before that ?19:19
FrankBlueshrm, possibly...19:19
tuxbrainuploading to my server the big buck bunny on 320x240 , well it is flipped vertically but for test it will do19:19
tuxbrainI will post the link once uploaded19:20
FrankBluesHow would I know?19:20
rafaFrankBlues: it is heavily being developed.. so perhaps today I will upload a new one as well.19:20
FrankBluesheh19:20
rafaFrankBlues: well, there is no version yet because we have not released formally19:20
rafabut if you installed it yesterday or before then you should download the current one19:21
FrankBlueskk19:21
FrankBluesgtg - dinner! Thanks for all the help!19:21
tuxbrain6 mins left19:22
tuxbrainalso i'm coverting it to ogm19:22
rafatuxbrain: so nn will have a while to download them :)19:24
rafatuxbrain: perhaps i can test mplayer http:// ;)19:24
tuxbrainsure :)19:26
tuxbrainrafa:http://www.tuxbrain.org/downloads/nanonote/bigbuckrabbit_320x240.avi19:29
rafatuxbrain: great, let me test..19:30
wolfspraultuxbrain: if it's a good movie please don't forget to upload a copy to the qi wiki...19:31
tuxbrainsame but in ogv in 2 mins19:31
rafatuxbrain: mplayer http://... works .. just that slow, but I think that the problem is the download..19:32
rafatuxbrain: let me download the file and then play it19:32
tuxbraingreat!!19:32
tuxbrainthe ogv is 4 times lighter19:32
rafaah.. sexy :)19:32
tuxbrainso maybe it works with it19:32
rafaI hate that mplayer tries ipv6 first :P19:34
tuxbrainwolfspraul: is a quick and dirty conversion, I will upload a non flipped one to the qi wiki19:34
rafawolfspraul: a short example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NQKpqWG-RI of the test19:34
rafa(the first test)19:34
tuxbrainthe big buck bunny is a creative commons filme19:34
tuxbrainrafa, so the jlime is functional on ben?? and with video? (yes I have just realize it) yay!19:35
rafatuxbrain: yes, but we have released it formally. Moreover the rootfs is being developed heavily, so every we have a new version :)19:37
tuxbrainlink to rootfs you are using? no problem for me giveme giveme giveme link19:37
rafatuxbrain: http://jlime.com/mw4/index.php/Installation_nanonote#Installation19:39
rafathe links there are the last ones19:39
rafatuxbrain: mplayer is an extra package, I will uploaded it today19:40
rafafirst video stops after a few seconds.. and the image was too pixelate.. like really bad quality19:41
rafais the ogv format uploaded?19:41
rafatuxbrain: but it is mplayer in nn.. because I see it well on PC19:42
tuxbrainogv uploaded19:42
tuxbrainwow just 14mb of rootfs19:44
rafatuxbrain: http://jlime.com/downloads/releases/muffinman/documentation/muffinman-rootfs.txt19:45
rafathe usb0 ip is 192.168.1.202, and root password root19:45
rafain documentation you could find something important about the current rootfs.. BUt at least you already know now how to ssh via usb :)19:46
rafadocumentation=http://jlime.com/downloads/releases/muffinman/documentation/19:47
tuxbrainformating sd....19:47
rafatuxbrain: and opkg update is already configured, so you do not need to do something with opkg, just config the usb network on PC19:48
rafawell, run opkg update once at least.19:48
tuxbrainis the ogv working?19:48
rafadonwloading..19:48
rafadownloading*19:48
Action: tuxbrain is crossing his fingers19:49
rafa:D19:49
rafaif it does not work you can encode these lighter yet ;)19:50
tuxbrainactually is 80kbps i think in ogv19:51
rafaOpening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family19:52
rafa[theora @ 0xa99730]Missing extradata!19:52
rafaCould not open codec.19:52
rafaVDecoder init failed :(19:52
rafa:(19:52
tuxbraindamn it19:52
tuxbrainno theora codec?19:52
rafathere is theora codec.. but something is wrong19:53
tuxbrainmmm lets try mpeg19:53
coatlarsc: i tried reflashing with the included USB cable and still getting 'Error - can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110' :(20:01
coathttp://pastebin.com/dPns3CTW20:02
wolfspraulcoat: before you start the flashing, did you check with 'lsusb' that you see the XBurst ID 0x601a:4740 ?20:04
coatyep20:04
coatBus 001 Device 007: ID 601a:474020:04
wolfspraulgood20:04
wolfspraulbut when you run the reflash_ben.sh script it fails?20:04
coatyes20:04
coatwith the same error message20:05
wolfspraullet's try usbboot in manual (command line) mode20:05
wolfspraulso after you see this ID, instead of running the script, just run 'usbboot'20:05
wolfspraul(you need to reboot now, the device is probably in a bad state)20:05
coatand this is the 3rd computer i've tried it on so far ;)20:05
coatok20:05
wolfspraulno need to switch computers20:05
wolfspraultake out the battery, power it only over the USB cable20:06
wolfspraulthat removes some potential error cases where the device was not really turned off20:07
coatok i've rebooted into usb boot mode, my computer sees the usb device and usbboot is running20:08
wolfspraulnice20:08
wolfspraultry the 'boot' command20:08
wolfspraul(at the usbboot console)20:08
wolfspraulwhat does it do?20:08
coatah there we go20:08
coatit got farther this time20:08
wolfspraulthe 'boot' command will load a small stub to the other side and execute it there20:09
coathttp://pastebin.com/dfAqTZr8 is where it's at now20:09
wolfspraulfrom now on usbboot will communicate with that small stub20:09
wolfspraul'help' gives you a list of commands, although many are not fully or not at all implemented20:09
coatoh i just noticed the error mesas20:09
wolfspraulno need to play around with this, it's just for unbricking anyway...20:09
coat*message appeared again20:10
wolfspraulhmm, interesting20:10
wolfsprauldo you have a USB hub between your computer and Ben (probably not, just asking)20:11
wolfspraulit's loading stage2 from /usr/local/share, did you build this yourself?20:14
wolfspraul(I mean stage2)20:14
wolfspraulmaybe we check the md5sum of stage220:14
wolfspraulmine is 92b55d...20:15
coatno hub, and i downloaded xburst manually using the instructions here http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/downloads/32/20:16
coatas i'm not using a debian linux distro20:16
coat92b55d3554c4c6344f6cbf0af024d15b20:16
wolfspraulok same, so that's not it20:17
wolfspraulthe tarball wasn't updated in 3 months, but still, I don't remember a bug like that that was fixed20:18
wolfspraulcan you still boot your NanoNote?20:18
wolfspraulunfortunately the u-boot out of the factory is a bit old right now, and the way it supports boot from SD has been changed20:19
wolfspraulso theoretically that would be another option to boot from SD, then reflash from there20:20
wolfsprauljust fyi20:20
wolfspraulah20:20
wolfspraulanother idea20:20
coatno it won't boot at all :( although this sounds weird, but as soon as i put the battery in and hold the speaker up to my ear, i can hear like faint white noise20:20
wolfspraulhow do you go into USB-boot mode?20:20
wolfspraulyou press the 'u' key?20:20
coati use the hardware method by shorting the pins with the carbonized rubber20:21
wolfspraulhah, OK20:21
coatand the static goes away as soon as the battery is unplugged.  so it's doing something :)20:21
wolfsprauldid you just get it, and out of the box it didn't boot?20:21
wolfspraulit should boot into the OpenWrt 20100113 image20:21
wolfspraulfrom the factory, that is20:21
coatoh sorry i was here earlier.  i got it yesterday and it worked great (although it seemed to crash a few times) and i left it on, plugged into the usb port during lunch, came back, and couldn't get it to turn back on20:22
wolfspraulis the battery out right now?20:24
wolfspraulkeep the battery out, it may confuse us20:24
coatyes.  and rebooted into usb boot mode again20:25
wolfspraulah OK20:25
wolfsprauljust give the 'boot' command in usbboot another shot20:25
wolfspraulalways worth it20:25
wolfspraulmaybe it will disconnect/fail after stage2 again20:25
wolfspraulit's interesting though that stage1 works and then stage2 fails20:25
coatsame thing as the latest pastebin20:26
coatshould i try compiling xburst-tools from the git repo?20:27
wolfspraulhmm20:28
wolfspraulI'd say no20:28
coatk20:28
wolfspraullet me just check something real quick20:29
coatcool thanks.  i really appreciate your help20:29
wolfspraulmaybe stage1 is loaded and executed in the memory inside the CPU, but stage2 is in the SDRAM chip20:29
wolfsprauloh no worries, we'll get it to work20:29
wolfspraulI apologize for the inconvenience, I hope you at least find it adventurous :-)20:30
wolfspraulso if stage2 is the first thing that runs in SDRAM, maybe the SDRAM chip got a problem?20:30
wolfspraulthat would make your NanoNote the first ever with a hardware defect! :-)20:30
wolfspraulwhich one day must happen, who knows, maybe it's yours...20:30
coathow exciting :)20:31
wolfspraulyeah20:31
wolfspraulalso it's strange that it did boot first, then stopped20:31
wolfspraulbut still, there could be also much simpler explanations20:31
coatyeah and i haven't dropped it or anything.  it was in the same position on my desk when i came back from lunch, unless a gnome came in and broke it while i was gone20:31
wolfspraulyeah I think stage1 is loaded and executed in CPU memory, setups SDRAM, then stage2 runs in the SDRAM20:34
wolfspraulI'm wondering whether anybody else in the channel has another idea...20:34
wolfspraulyou tried several computers already... which Linux distro do you run on them?20:35
coatArchlinux on all 320:35
wolfspraulunfortunately these little stub binaries usbboot is loading (stage1 and stage2) do not implement a really robust USB protocol20:36
coatyeah i read about that on the wiki :/20:36
wolfspraulwell we always like to fix bugs, first need to understand what exactly the problem is. so maybe your case is one such case.20:36
wolfspraulfor example if there is archlinux on all 3, maybe it has something to do with that? (long shot, just to illustrate my thinking)20:37
wolfspraulwe have this other utility xbboot that you can use to load a Linux initramfs into memory right away for usb boots20:37
wolfspraulbut even that first uses stage1 and stage2, then loads initramfs20:38
wolfspraulso most likely wouldn't help either20:38
coati would definitely be up to trying another distro, i was thinking the same way20:39
wolfspraulwhere do you live? is there any other NanoNote user nearby?//20:39
coati live in salt lake city20:39
wolfspraulmaybe you can try a live CD, if your computers have CD/DVD drives20:39
wolfspraulah, just was there 3 weeks ago...20:39
coatyeah let me try that now on another computer so i can still chat20:39
wolfspraulvisiting Elphel20:40
wolfspraulyes please, that's worth it20:40
wolfspraulyou can always just try the 'boot' command in usbboot, not the full script20:40
wolfspraulthere is no way to bypass a successful loading and execution of stage1 and stage220:40
wolfspraulso you can just focus on that20:40
wolfsprauland who knows, I said 'keep the battery out', but you can also try with battery inserted, just in case20:41
wolfspraulso you unplug the battery, unplug USB (then you know it's 100% off). Then put the battery in, then USB cable.20:41
wolfspraulif you plug the USB cable in without battery, normally it will turn on at that moment (so that's also when the USB boot pins need to be short).20:41
coati'll try that while i download the live cd iso20:42
wolfspraulif you plugin the battery, sometimes it turns on at that moment, but normally shouldn't. then when you plug in the USB, it will also not turn on.20:42
wolfspraulSo in that case, you need to press the power button (press a good 3 seconds, just in case)20:42
wolfspraulhope you can follow :-)20:42
wolfspraulthe lsusb/0x601a:4740 is a sure fire way to tell your Nano is ready for play20:43
wolfspraul601a:4740 is the ID reported by the CPU over USB to indicate that it is sitting idle in usb-boot mode20:43
wolfspraulso when you see that ID, your NanoNote is on, and the CPU is running20:43
coatweird, as soon as i put the battery in, i can hear the faint static from the speaker20:44
coatwonder if it's turning on as i put the battery in20:45
wolfspraulpossible20:46
wolfspraulcan you keep the USB boot pins short at that time?20:46
wolfspraulthen it will go into usb-boot mode20:46
coatyeah let me give it a shot20:47
coatanother thing to note is the static goes away as soon as i plug the usb cable in20:47
wolfspraulOK I hear you, but I cannot relate this to anything20:47
wolfspraulwe don't want to open it up and measure voltages now...20:48
wolfspraulif it is really a hardware defect, we'll get it back and take a lot what exactly it was. like I said would have been the first time, but of course electronics can break.20:48
wolfspraulbut for now I am pretty sure it isn't just something weird on the software side20:48
wolfspraulI meant I think it is something software related :-) or fixable in software20:49
tuxbrainrafa:uploading a mpg version even lighter that the others20:49
coatunderstandable.  so you want me to try shorting the usb pins with the battery connected, or short the usb pins and then put the battery in?20:49
wolfspraulah! :-)20:49
wolfspraulstupid me20:49
wolfspraulthe pins are under the battery :-)20:50
wolfspraulforget the battery stuff, let's focus on USB cable only20:50
wolfspraulthe USB boot pin have to be short at the moment the CPU is powered on20:50
wolfspraulonly at that time20:50
wolfspraulbasically when the CPU gets power, it checks those pins20:50
wolfspraulif they are short, it goes into usb-boot mode and waits for instructions (0x601a:4740 ID)20:50
wolfspraulif they are not short, it will boot from NAND20:51
wolfspraulthe check happens only once right after the CPU gets power20:51
wolfspraulso you can short the pin, plug the USB cable in, wait 2 seconds, and already release the button from the pins20:51
wolfspraulnormally when you plug in the USB cable, device will turn on. if not, you need to press the power button, and before that make sure the USB boot pins are short again.20:52
coatgot it.  i usually have to try that about 3-4 times before my copmuter sees it.  i might just be fat fingering the rubber button though and missing the pins20:52
wolfspraulyou need to press it firm enough, but if you do that you should see an almost 100% success rate20:53
wolfspraulwell normally this is only meant for rare unbricking situations anyway...20:53
wolfspraulcoat: which Linux kernel do you have on the host?21:00
coat2.6.3321:03
tuxbrainbooting jlime :D :D :D21:04
tuxbrainfrom sdcard21:04
tuxbrainlogin prompt!!21:05
tuxbrainenough for today21:05
tuxbrainlet's some sleep and21:06
wolfspraul'night :-)21:07
gbraadwolfspraul: http://ostatic.com/blog/ben-nanonote-aims-to-bring-open-source-tenets-to-hardware21:25
gbraadit links to an older article on Linux.com from Nathan Willis (26th of March)21:27
wolfspraulthe one that stands out as the buggiest, yeah21:27
coat:)21:28
wolfspraulgbraad: just checked, the article still says it has USB host...21:37
gbraadwolfspraul: I'll contact Nathan to change this21:42
wolfspraulgbraad: that would be great. we were in touch a lot back then but communication didn't flow too well. Don't want to blame him though they get crazy time pressure and have all sorts of policies wrt updates & corrections.21:43
gbraadwolfspraul: will deal with it. mostly have a good relationship with editors on linux.com due to fedora21:44
wolfspraulthere were a bunch of mistakes in that article, the USB host is just the biggest one21:44
wolfspraullet's get that fixed at least21:44
wolfspraulgbraad: thanks a lot for your help!21:45
emebwolfspraul: got my NanoNote today & having fun learning it.21:45
emebalready flashed to latest boot/kernel/root21:45
wolfspraulemeb: wow, I wish coat would be there, that's kinda bugging me right now...21:46
wolfspraulbut glad to hear you like it21:46
emebtrying to build the distro & getting an error:21:46
emebmake[3] -C feeds/desktop/tools/icon-naming-utils compile21:46
emebmake -r world: build failed. Please re-run make with V=99 to see what's going on21:47
emebtried 'V=99 make' but that didn't do anything different.21:47
wolfspraulneed to see whether some openwrt experts have an idea, I mostly just reflash and install binaries21:48
emebgotcha21:48
emebmain thing is I wanted a toolchain to do some of my own coding and it appears that's already in place by the time that error pops up21:48
emebso this is no biggie21:48
emebwolfspraul: you in DE?21:49
wolfspraulChina21:49
emebYeow!21:49
emebHow's things there?21:49
wolfspraulhah21:49
gbraadAwesome!21:49
wolfspraullong story. working on copyleft hardware.21:50
wolfspraul:-)21:50
emebYou'll have to write your long story sometime.21:50
emebReally impressed with the out-of-the-box presentation of the NN. Very polished.21:51
wolfspraulgood21:51
wolfspraulI hope it's enough to launch this business, getting close.21:51
wolfspraulbut so far stil alive, and pieces coming together21:51
wolfspraulplease help if you can, for example with wiki edits21:51
wolfspraulwiki is a mess21:52
wolfspraulpretty much the only one who tries to clean it up is me. categorizing pages and media. a lot of pages can be merged and need heavy editing.21:52
wolfspraulbut anyway, enjoy your Ben first :-)21:52
emebThanks - best of luck.21:52
wolfspraulI saw in this channel jlime will be ready very soon, that's a cool alternative distro21:53
emebwill check it out when it's ready for primetime.21:54
emebheh - just transcoded some oggs, copied over & tried out w/ gmu. Works nicely.22:01
qwebirc89679wow, just got my nanonote, such a cool gadget!22:15
wolfspraulcool!22:15
qwebirc89679need to find a microSD wifi card for it22:15
qwebirc89679anyone know of any?22:15
wolfspraulSpectec SDW-82322:16
wolfspraulit's the only one in the world, and that will (probably) ever exist22:16
wolfspraulit's expensive though22:16
wolfspraulpulster.de has it in Germany, and expansys around the world22:16
wolfspraulit will work out of the box22:17
wolfspraulqwebirc89679: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_Wi-Fi22:17
qwebirc89679thx22:17
coatbrb22:25
rafalarsc: you there man? I would need a hand with alsa driver in nn. For some reason22:29
rafaI get in kernel boot time :22:30
rafaALSA device list: No soundcards found.22:30
Action: FrankBlues waves22:37
wolfspraulcoat: I am offline for a while, keep me posted. also email me at wolfgang@sharism.cc22:38
coatdefinitely.  thanks again22:38
wolfspraulnah, again: thank you!22:38
wolfspraullet's keep working on this, I enjoy the ride. your Nano has to live! :-)22:38
wolfspraullater...22:38
coatlater!22:38
wolfsprauljust heard from xiangfu who is at Ingenic's office hacking on the super new 4760 evbs...22:39
wolfspraulevb = evaluation board, i.e. a board with a live 4760 CPU on it22:39
TechbearHi, All.  Got my Nanonote today!23:06
xiangfuTechbear: great :)23:10
TechbearSoooo, I bought the Nanonote 'cuase it's the device I've always dreamed of.  I tiny, cheap computer that I could directly program games on, like a miniature version of my old Commore64.23:16
TechbearBUT, I'm not a linux guy. :(  I guess I'll have to start being one, though.23:16
FrankBluesIt is funny how much I hear the NN compared to the C64...23:18
TechbearSo, according to the wiki, I'm supposed to have nano (the text editor) on my NN.  But I only see vim.  Is that my only choice?23:20
FrankBluesYou may need to update to the current distro to get nano.23:22
rafaFrankBlues: hey, are you using openwrt right now?23:31
FrankBluesI'm in jlime23:31
FrankBluesbut I could boot back...23:31
FrankBlues(and I have X running in jlime... woot!)23:31
rafaNO!23:32
rafa:D23:32
rafaFrankBlues: could you please, how do you run X?23:32
rafacould you tell me*23:32
FrankBluesLet's see, I have xserver-kdrive-fbdev installed23:33
rafaI asked you about openwrt because I would neet the /proc/config.gz file to know the .config file for kernel23:33
larscrafa: are the sound modules loaded?23:33
rafaFrankBlues: I read you23:33
FrankBluesgpe-term provides x-terminal-emulator (bleah - I can't find rvxt in jlime)23:33
FrankBluesand icewm works nicely.23:33
rafalarsc: I built these inside the kernel, sound works now ;)23:34
larscok23:34
rafaFrankBlues: but how did you run X?23:34
rafalarsc: I want to know the exact .config anyway23:34
FrankBluesHere is the script: http://pastebin.com/3zCeAnKk23:34
rafalarsc: mplayer on fb freezes, and I want to know if my .config for jlime is okey (reading the .config from qi openwrt kernel)23:35
FrankBluesI need to tweak the x-terminal geometry23:35
rafaFrankBlues: cool ;)23:35
larscrafa: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/tree/jz-2.6.34/arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig23:35
rafafun stuff23:35
FrankBluesNow if I could figure out a way to emulate a mouse... ;)23:36
rafaFrankBlues: yeah, lot of fun now that X is working ;)23:37
rafaFrankBlues: you should take some screenshots or record a video :)23:37
FrankBluesLet me get something other than xterm running, heh...23:38
FrankBluesabiword is installing...23:38
rafalarsc: thanks a lot !23:39
FrankBluesI was thinking about xmms... heh...23:39
rafaFrankBlues: :D23:39
rafaxmms should be nice23:40
FrankBluesLooks like it is the old fashioned xmms 1...23:40
rafaFrankBlues: we used abiword gtk1 for old hp jornadas23:40
rafaand xpdf gtk1 as well23:40
rafabut I am not sure if the jlime repo for nn has those23:40
rafaFrankBlues: better if it is the old xmms23:41
rafacurrent xmms is a server and you need clients.. and I do not know good clients23:41
FrankBluesArgh, is there a way to resize a running xterm without a mouse?23:41
FrankBluesI need to go in and change some of the icewm keyboard commands - I don't have alt-f9...23:42
rafayou are the first guy using X right?23:45
FrankBluesI doubt it... I had it running on debian before this but had monsterous keyboard issues.23:46
FrankBluesDoode, I need to figure out a way to video this.23:47
FrankBluesabiword is actually usable without a mouse23:47
rafacool, please, if you do a video tell me.. I want to show your tests to others jlimers23:49
rafa;)23:49
FrankBluesabsolutely!23:49
FrankBluesgtg, time to put the little one to bed. rafa: shoot me an email at frankblues@gmail.com and I'll give you a link to a video when I do it.23:54
--- Thu Jun 10 201000:00

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