#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2010-06-05

Ian_DaniherHey, does the nanonote have userspace-accessible I2C? I've checked on the wiki, and it's referenced, but nothing terribly clear.01:04
Ian_DaniherFrom what I've read, pins 23 and 24 on Port D may be I2C, but nothing concrete is written.01:06
Action: Guest46218 is xiangfu use emacs irc in debian nanonote06:07
Action: Guest46218 is xiangfu use emacs in debian in nanonote06:55
wolfspraulGuest46218: hi Xiangfu :-)06:57
Guest46218me too.06:57
Guest46218see you06:57
xiangfusorry. I saw some message like "level for a while".06:58
mthIan_Daniher: the JZ hardware support for I2C uses those two pins, but if you use the Linux GPIO I2C driver, you can select any two free pins06:59
Guest46218sorry i saw my own messagee07:00
mththe kernel config and board source for the NanoNote don't include I2C though07:00
mthso you'll have to build your own kernel to use it07:00
wolfspraulmth: if I'm not confused I think I saw some excellent kernel patches you did. just wanted to say thanks!07:02
wolfspraulreally cool stuff07:03
wolfspraulI am so excited that Lars has now submitted his work upstream. let's see how it goes...07:03
mthwell, I did the SLCD driver, but it's not excellent yet ;)07:03
mthI did encounter some bugs in the existing drivers though, because they are used in slightly different ways on the Dingoo07:04
mthand fixed them together with larsc07:04
wolfspraulyeah I'm just happy :-)07:04
wolfspraulupstream is all this project is about07:04
wolfspraulat least for me07:04
wolfspraul"if it's not maintanable, don't build it"07:05
wolfspraulof course when we started that was not the case, and still isn't07:05
wolfspraulbut seeing Lars and now you and others work in that direction is just great07:05
wolfspraul(with "if it's not maintanable, don't build it", I mean hardware should not be built that cannot be run with maintanble software)07:05
mththat's exactly the reason I started the OpenDingux kernel based on qi-kernel instead of sticking with the existing 2.6.24 one07:06
wolfspraulcool07:06
wolfspraulI will hammer this into Ingenic07:06
wolfspraulmaybe I can get them to switch07:06
wolfspraulit's like talking to the wall though07:06
wolfsprauljust to keep everybody synced, Ingenic works on a new chip, 476007:07
wolfspraulI am trying to get them to do more things 'right' early on07:07
wolfspraulof course they are already hacking like crazy on all their different kernel forks07:07
mththe Ingenic drivers tend to ignore existing kernel infrastructure, so they'd have a hard time getting things accepted upstream07:07
mthprobably they are not even trying that though07:08
LunaVoraxHi everyone !07:08
wolfspraulmth: hard to say. you need to be realistic about the quality of people they have.07:08
wolfspraulthey hardly understand what 'upstream' is07:08
wolfspraulanyway, we get there07:08
LunaVoraxI just recieved my Ben Nanonote today <_<07:08
wolfspraulso what I wanted to say about 4760 is that Xiangfu will try to get early access to some EVBs, and first get 4760 support into more recent u-boot versions07:09
wolfspraulLunaVorax: cool! do you like it?07:09
LunaVoraxYes I finally realize how small it is07:10
wolfspraulyeah :-)07:10
LunaVoraxHowever I'm a linux noob so I hardly know what cool things I can do with it07:10
wolfsprauloh07:10
wolfspraulthere is a lot to learn07:10
mththey might have electronic engineers who know how to program: they seem to understand the hardware just fine, but have trouble writing maintainable code07:10
LunaVoraxI'm very used to Ubuntu, so do you think it's a good idea to flash Debian into it ?07:10
wolfsprauldo you have Linux on your notebook at least?07:10
LunaVoraxYes I use it all the time07:10
LunaVoraxI mean I use ubuntu all the time07:11
wolfspraulI suggest you first reflash the latest OpenWrt image on it07:11
wolfspraulunfortunately the new devices still have quite old software on them, 20100113 image07:11
LunaVoraxCan do, I'll check the doc07:11
wolfsprauland old u-boot07:11
wolfspraulhopefully it will go smooth07:11
wolfspraulthe device (software) still has rough edges, although things improve every month07:12
wolfspraulif there is any problem, come to this channel07:12
wolfspraulwe have unbricked many a NanoNote07:12
wolfspraul:-)07:12
LunaVoraxhaha07:13
LunaVoraxJust a moment I'm looking for the image07:13
wolfspraulmth: are you interested in hacking on other XBurst-based devices?07:13
wolfspraulI have a whole pile of them. Not that I am so crazy about XBurst, in the long run it's still a proprietary SoC.07:14
wolfspraulLunaVorax: you need to run the reflash_ben script07:14
wolfspraulthere should be instructions in the wiki07:14
Action: arctanx ordered a nanonote after spotting it yesterday on slashdot07:15
arctanxThe shipping dept hasn't been slashdotted, has it? :)07:15
wolfspraulno07:15
wolfspraularctanx: last I checked there were 49 orders from the US that I would say are coming from slashdot07:16
arctanxgood to hear07:16
mthwolfspraul: not right now, still plenty of work to be done on the Dingoo support07:16
wolfspraulfor us that's really good07:16
mthmaybe later it would be fun though07:16
Action: arctanx is in AU07:16
wolfspraulmth: then rather let's get the Dingoo to work really well first07:16
wolfspraulI don't like 20 devices that all work 'somewhat'07:16
wolfsprauljust me personally of course. rather have a few that work really well.07:16
wolfspraulthat's the point of a good kernel - to get everything reasonable out of the HW. Isn't it?07:17
wolfspraularctanx: AU = Australia?07:17
wolfspraulwe are still looking for a distributor in australia, who is interested in copyleft hardware in the long run07:17
wolfspraulin the whole concept07:17
wolfspraulvolumes and margins make it impossible to make money right now though07:18
wolfspraulif you know some real free software fanatic, who wants to get his nose bloody with hardware, send them here :-)07:18
wolfspraulthey can become our AU distributor...07:18
arctanxwolfspraul: Yes, Australia. Good luck with that. Though I'd love to see it, I'm not aware of any copyleft hardware action in this country07:18
wolfspraulactually we have quite a few orders from Australia07:18
wolfspraulwith 'quite a few' I mean maybe 20 or so07:18
arctanxThat's good. I'll have to keep an eye out then07:20
wolfspraulyou can subscribe to the discussion list07:20
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion07:20
arctanxoh I didn't spot that, many thanks for the link07:21
LunaVoraxflashing the nanonote07:23
Action: LunaVorax cross fingers07:23
LunaVoraxis fetching rootfs long ?07:25
LunaVoraxdone !07:25
LunaVoraxah no07:25
LunaVoraxit couldn't boot the device, is it normal ?07:26
wolfspraulhe07:27
wolfspraulcouldn't boot, what do you mean?07:27
wolfspraulyou already reflashed?07:27
wolfspraulor you took it out of the box and it doesn't turn on?07:27
LunaVoraxNo I used it a bit before07:27
LunaVoraxThen I booted in usb boot mode as said on the wiki07:28
LunaVoraxwget .sh file etc07:28
wolfspraulthen you ran reflash_ben07:28
wolfsprauland it went all through?07:28
LunaVoraxyep07:28
wolfspraulI think it will take 15 minutes at least07:28
LunaVoraxoh07:28
LunaVoraxWell it didn't took 15min07:28
wolfspraulwhat did you see on the screen?07:28
LunaVoraxnanonote or terminal ?07:29
wolfspraulterminal07:29
wolfspraulthe nanonote should have been just black07:29
wolfspraulin usb-boot mode07:29
LunaVoraxYes it was07:29
wolfspraulthen you run the reflash script07:29
wolfspraulit should reflash07:29
wolfspraulguess it didn't...07:29
LunaVoraxwolfspraul, here what appeard on the terminal07:30
LunaVoraxhttp://codepad.org/OCFfJigX07:30
LunaVoraxHum07:32
LunaVoraxApparently I don't have xburst-tools on my computer07:32
wolfsprauloh07:32
wolfspraulyeah07:32
wolfspraulyour system is 32-bit or 64-bit?07:32
LunaVorax6407:32
wolfspraulwas that not mentioned in the wiki page you read?07:32
wolfspraulcan you just do 'lsusb' real quick?07:33
wolfspraulthere should be an ID 0x601a:474007:33
wolfspraulif you see that ID, that's your NanoNote sitting idle in USB-boot mode07:33
wolfspraulwaiting for instructions07:33
wolfspraulif you don't see that ID, you cannot reflash anyway07:33
LunaVoraxYes, i've veryfied lsusb before doing it it was ok07:33
wolfspraulgreat07:33
wolfspraulit should still be there now07:33
wolfspraulone sec I find the xburst-tools url for you07:33
LunaVoraxBut I've seen no warning for 64bits at http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Flash07:33
LunaVoraxOh thank you07:34
LunaVoraxlsusb > device is still here07:34
wolfspraulhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/downloads/07:34
LunaVoraxThanks07:34
wolfspraulhe07:34
wolfspraulyou read over the whole first couple sections on that page07:35
LunaVoraxIs it my fault ? Did I misread a thing ?07:35
wolfspraulno no07:35
wolfspraulnever the reader's fault07:35
LunaVoraxhaha07:35
wolfspraulyou jump right to "How to reflash"07:35
wolfspraulwhy not07:35
wolfspraullots of bla bla, you jump there07:35
wolfspraulit's OK07:35
LunaVoraxOh darn yes I haven't seen about the tool07:35
wolfsprauljust install the 64-bit debian package07:36
wolfspraulthen try the whole thing again07:36
LunaVoraxOk doing it07:36
wolfspraulu-boot/kernel and rootfs should be downloaded now, so it should star tflashing right away07:36
wolfspraulto run usbboot you need to be root I think, not sure how the script does that maybe with sudo? don't know07:36
LunaVoraxThe wiki say sudo so i've done so07:37
LunaVoraxOk the script is running07:37
LunaVoraxflashing rootfs07:37
LunaVorax15min you said ?07:37
wolfspraulat least07:38
wolfspraulmaybe 2007:38
wolfspraulthis is all not perfect, but we have so many construction sites it's OK right now, we survive somehow07:39
wolfspraulthe Ben is definitely unbrickable, until today I think there never has been a bricked Ben07:39
arctanxI'm curious... does "xburst" represent anything in particular, or is just a name for the host-side utilities?07:39
wolfspraulbut lots of frustrations for sure, until it was unbricked again07:39
wolfspraulthat's the name of the CPU07:40
wolfspraulit's a Chinese CPU built aroudn an old freely available MIPS core07:40
wolfspraulXBurst is the brand name, maybe like Pentium07:40
arctanxI thought that was Ingenic or something like that?07:40
wolfspraulxburst-tools actually only has 2 utilities both relate to the USB boot protocol that the XBurst CPUs have in their boot rom07:41
wolfspraulIngenic is the company, yes07:41
wolfspraulIngenic = Intel07:41
wolfspraulXBurst = Pentium07:41
arctanxAaah right, thanks07:41
wolfspraulso the CPU in the Ben NanoNote is an Ingenic XBurst 472007:41
wolfspraul4720 is the same die as 4725 and 474007:41
wolfspraulonly different package (4720 = COB, 4725 = QFP, 4740 = BGA)07:41
arctanxthat boot ROM is actually on-die?07:41
wolfspraulyes07:41
wolfspraulsure07:42
arctanxinteresting07:42
wolfspraulthat's why the device is unbrickable07:42
wolfspraulok it could be in a separate chip too07:42
wolfspraulbut yes, it's all on 1 die07:42
arctanxa wealth of information, I appreciate it!07:43
wolfspraulLunaVorax: I guess I have 15 minutes of crossing my fingers now :-)07:43
wolfspraularctanx: ahh, don't get me started :-)07:43
wolfspraulsince I started this project my mind was literally blown away by how much I learnt07:43
wolfspraulif you are curious about copyleft hardware, please also check out the Milkymist and Elphel projects07:43
wolfspraulwww.milkymist.org, www.elphel.com07:43
wolfspraulcompared to those the NanoNote is just a little pocked calculator...07:44
wolfspraulpocket07:44
arctanxI'm an EE, I love pocket calculators :)07:44
wolfspraulxdpirate: I think you pointed out the broken irclogs symlink the other day, thanks again! I fixed it...07:44
LunaVoraxhaha07:44
wolfspraularctanx: EE, wow - we need you guys07:45
xdpiratewolfspraul, heh np mate :)07:45
xdpiratemy nn is still stuck in customs >.<07:45
xdpirate03 Jun 2010 11:23:33 Oslo Customs Clearance In Progress.07:45
LunaVoraxI would sure join the team if I was an EE :'(07:46
wolfspraularctanx: well are you inclined to help a bit here and there with some copyleft EE projects?07:46
LunaVoraxI'll call you in 8years when I'll have my doctor's degree07:46
wolfspraulLunaVorax: maybe you would reconsider that if you found out you had to work for free until eternity... :-)07:46
LunaVoraxah darn failed again07:46
LunaVoraxlol wolfspraul, maybe it's part of the challenge07:46
arctanxwolfspraul: it sounds cool and I'm a big fan of free software, but I can't commit to anything just now. I don't graduate for another 6 months so lots on the go07:47
wolfspraulah studying, nice07:47
arctanxso I'm going to get my nanonote, have a play with it, and see what I can do from there :)07:47
wolfspraulgood07:47
wolfspraulthe NanoNote for hardware hackers is called SAKC07:47
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/SAKC07:47
wolfspraulbut one by one...07:47
wolfspraulLunaVorax: what is the error message? it flashed for a while?07:48
LunaVoraxwolfspraul: http://codepad.org/bQ4XWf8y07:48
arctanxah cool07:48
wolfspraulouch07:48
wolfsprauloh well07:48
wolfspraullet's hope u-boot in NAND is OK07:49
wolfsprauldisconnect your Nano, take the battery out07:49
LunaVoraxx_o ?07:49
LunaVoraxok07:49
wolfspraulpress the 'u' button and plug the USB cable back in (without battery still)07:49
wolfspraulnormally when you connect the USB cable and have no battery, it will turn on07:49
wolfspraulbut because you press 'u' (if u-boot in nand is working), it will go to usb-boot mode07:49
wolfspraulthen check 'lsusb' on your host to see whether the 0x601a:4740 ID shows up07:50
wolfspraulif it does, run reflash_ben again07:50
LunaVoraxok apparently the device is in usb boot mode07:50
LunaVoraxreflashing...07:50
wolfspraulgood07:50
LunaVoraxman07:50
wolfspraulif it doesn't work again, maybe we try to reflash the rootfs manually07:50
LunaVoraxWho knew i'll have such an adventure07:51
wolfspraulah07:51
wolfspraulyou are at the beginning07:51
LunaVorax:P07:51
wolfspraullevel 107:51
LunaVoraxhaha07:51
wolfspraulseriously07:51
LunaVoraxI don't mind07:51
wolfspraulit's not an iPad07:51
LunaVoraxhahaha07:51
wolfspraulwe have that level of polish in 10 years, maybe07:51
LunaVoraxIf the project lives that long ?07:51
LunaVoraxI hope so07:51
wolfspraulit better does07:52
LunaVoraxyes07:52
wolfspraulwe are 1 year into it now07:52
wolfspraulachieved a lot07:52
LunaVoraxIndeed you've done a great job07:52
LunaVoraxI read a lot about the nanonote before buying one07:52
wolfspraulanyway, let's kick your nano alive...07:52
wolfspraulflashing again now?07:52
wolfspraulit may well break again, especially if it did the first time07:52
LunaVoraxyes still doing it07:52
wolfspraulI am no expert in this script actually07:53
wolfspraulI hate reflash_ben.sh :-)07:53
LunaVoraxhaha07:53
wolfspraulbut I admit I have no better alternative that works _today_07:53
wolfspraulonly some dreams about how it could be07:53
wolfspraul:-)07:53
LunaVoraxmaybe i should delete the .qi folder next try07:53
wolfspraulno no07:53
LunaVoraxIf there was a bad download ?07:53
wolfspraulwhy that?07:53
LunaVoraxOh ok07:53
wolfspraulI doubt that07:53
LunaVoraxNo just wondering07:53
wolfspraulthe problem is the transfer from your host to Nano, and flashing into NAND07:54
wolfspraulthere is no real kernel running on the other side07:54
wolfsprauljust a small stub07:54
LunaVoraxok then07:54
wolfspraulthat stub doesn't implement USB properly, or NAND, or anything07:54
LunaVoraxA question out of subject07:54
wolfspraulso the 'proper' way would be to load a Linux kernel into RAM, then reflash the NAND from there07:54
wolfspraulbut that's only in theory07:54
LunaVoraxI forgot if the nanonote can actually play music oob07:54
wolfspraulof course it can07:55
wolfsprauljust no MP307:55
wolfspraulI saw some MP3 instructions in the wiki, we need to delete them07:55
LunaVoraxYes I knew mp3 wasn't in the way :P07:55
LunaVoraxNo pb as long as it play oog07:55
LunaVoraxogg07:55
arctanxhonestly, who buys a copyleft computer and tries to use mp3 on it? -_-07:55
LunaVoraxhaha07:56
wolfspraulurandom is not in irc...07:56
LunaVoraxThere's a lot of people still heavily using this format unfortunately :/07:56
wolfspraulhe added the MP3 instructions (hack) into the wiki07:56
wolfspraulbut unfortunately I need to delete them07:56
wolfspraulyes but the format is patented, and the patent owners are very stringent in the enforcement of their rights07:57
xdpiratemy whole 30 gb music collection is in mp3 and i'm not about to start mass-converting it all into .ogg, so I'd rather have gmu play mp3s :P07:57
wolfspraulso if I don't delete that wiki section, they will shutdown my entire server etc.07:57
wolfspraulxdpirate: I'm not taking you your hack, but we cannot leave those instructions in the wiki.07:58
xdpiratei understand that mate :)07:58
wolfspraulwhat we need to keep MP3 free is:07:58
LunaVoraxIt's not a hack it's a regulat plugin, no ?07:58
wolfspraul1) software on the ben as it is shipped07:59
xdpiratei made a pokedex for the ben, all hail me07:59
wolfspraul2) installable pacakges as long as the installation only uses resources controlled by people affiliated with the company/project07:59
arctanxxdpirate: brilliant!07:59
xdpirateinorite07:59
arctanxhave any screenshots?07:59
wolfspraul3) wiki can be removed 'as reasonably possible' (they understand wiki edits can be made by anyone)07:59
xdpirateit's a commandline tool atm, i will make an sdl gui later07:59
LunaVoraxxdpirate: lol pokedex07:59
wolfspraulI think that's it07:59
xdpiratefuck yeah pokeymanz08:00
LunaVoraxwolfspraul: i agree and understand with all of that08:00
LunaVoraxHEY08:00
LunaVoraxFlashing done !!108:00
wolfspraulpuh08:00
wolfspraulmy fingers already cramped08:00
LunaVoraxhahaha08:00
LunaVoraxcan't wait to use it08:00
xdpiratehere's the nanonote binary if anyone wants to test it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7046011/redblue.bnn (it's got an extension because dropbox sends bogus mimetypes for non-extention-files)08:00
wolfspraulnow it gets even better: does it boot? :-)08:01
LunaVoraxDo I have to deconnect an put again the battery08:01
wolfsprauldisconnect the USB cable, put the battery back in, turn on08:01
LunaVoraxOk08:01
wolfspraulwell this sequence guarantees that it was really off08:01
LunaVoraxYEAH08:01
LunaVoraxoooh graphical environment !08:02
wolfspraulnext thing you will notice the flickering08:02
wolfspraulsorry about that08:02
wolfspraulalready fixed, but no released image yet08:02
LunaVoraxYes it flickers, nvm08:02
wolfspraulthe next image should have Lars nice new 2.6.34 kernel with lots of fixes08:02
LunaVoraxIt's awesome already08:02
wolfspraulgreat, happy to hear that08:02
LunaVoraxOh the very last kernel ? cool update08:02
wolfspraulwell right now it's 2.6.32 (what you have)08:03
wolfspraulwhich is also pretty impressive for an embedded device, and no binary blobs at all08:03
LunaVoraxyes indeed08:03
wolfspraul2.6.34 is coming, in fact Lars submitted a whole set of 2.6.34 patches upstream, so if we are lucky at some point we get an upstream kernel running on the Ben08:03
LunaVoraxlol i pushed nearly all the keys to understand how to launch a programm08:06
LunaVorax-m08:06
wolfspraulyeah it's strange. needs work.08:06
wolfspraullike I said, I would estimate we have maybe 1000 construction sites or so.08:06
xdpiratethe source for gmenu2x is available, it's mapped to dingoo buttons08:06
wolfspraulat least that's how I feel08:06
LunaVoraxwolfspraul: what's a "construction site" ?08:08
LunaVoraxI'm not a ntaive speaker sorry08:08
xdpirateyou launch programs with left alt if zear didn't change the buttons08:08
xdpirate(that's what the dingoo B button is mapped to in linux)08:08
LunaVoraxxdpirate: I actually lauch them with X key08:09
xdpiratehe did change them then :P08:09
xdpiratehere's the source if you want to fiddle with them: http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/dingoo.cgi?0,0,0,0,46,26108:09
xdpirate:P08:09
LunaVoraxThanks08:10
LunaVoraxBut I won't play with the source as I'm not a developper08:10
arctanxhang on you have your cause and effect the wrong way around08:11
arctanxyou're not a developer because you won't play with the source08:11
zearxdpirate, nope, i've changed the button mapping in nn gmenu2x port08:11
zearyou launch the programs with x08:11
zear"why not enter?" you will probably ask. Well, it's because of the way gmenu2x is coded08:11
xdpiratedo you have the nanonote source anywhere? i'd love to change the mappings to something more sensible for the nn :P08:12
zearyep, it's maintained by the dev team08:12
xdpirateoic08:12
zearhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/gmenu2x/08:12
xdpiratethanks08:12
xdpirateanyway i'm out for now, cya'll later08:14
LunaVoraxI don't quite understand how to mount the nanonote to transfer files from my pc to it08:16
LunaVoraxCan someone help me with that ?08:16
wolfspraulLunaVorax: hmm, I always just scp to copy files08:17
LunaVoraxoh ok08:17
wolfspraulI read somewhere usb-storage may not work yet in the official image08:17
LunaVoraxI'll search for taht08:18
LunaVoraxoh08:18
wolfspraulmaybe you can also copy with NFS shares, although maybe a bit too hard to setup, unless you are an NFS junkie08:18
LunaVoraxSo I have to do the usb ethernet thing08:18
wolfspraulwell you need to connect the USB cable for sure08:18
zearwolfspraul, there's no usb storage support in the nn kernel, is there?08:18
LunaVoraxyes of course08:18
wolfspraulor you copy over the microSD card, that's another option of course08:18
wolfspraulzear: I am not sure, I read something about it needing DMA support08:19
LunaVoraxBut I was talking about the ethernet connection thtough usb08:19
wolfsprauland DMA support is only in the new kernel Lars and others were working on? mth may know more...08:19
zearwolfspraul, well, if you plug it in, it acts as a usb ethernet gadget device08:19
LunaVorax(yes but I don't have microsd card here right now :/)08:19
LunaVoraxHum08:19
zearLunaVorax, just scp files to it over network08:19
LunaVoraxzear: of course but i don't know the ip adress of the nano note08:20
LunaVorax192.168.1.1 ?08:20
zeari think there are programs to simulate scp as a filesystem08:20
zearso you can "mount" it on your pc and transfer files with your favourite file browser08:20
xiangfuzear: sshfs08:20
LunaVoraxhum08:20
zearxiangfu, yeah, this :D Thanks08:21
LunaVoraxI just want to send a file ._.08:21
mthwolfspraul: descriptorless DMA has been supported for quite some time; larsc added support for scatter/gather lists using DMA descriptors recently08:21
arctanxI'm looking at this openwrt-xburst build system... could anyone tell me where the kernel is, and where it's configured beyond what modules to include?08:21
xiangfuLunaVorax: scp PC_FILE root@192.168.254.101:~/08:21
zearLunaVorax, then read this: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ethernet_over_USB08:21
LunaVoraxHaha08:21
LunaVoraxThanks xiangfu and zear08:21
LunaVorax(in fact everyone)08:21
zearno prob :)08:21
xiangfuarctanx: openwrt-xburst/target/linux/xburst/files-2.6.32/ and patches-2.6.32/08:22
xiangfuarctanx: the ".config" file under openwrt-xburst/ is the configure file08:23
LunaVoraxwow !$08:23
LunaVoraxThe ethernet over usb was very easy to do !08:24
LunaVoraxI though it was some sort of mighty obscur thing all that time -_-08:24
xiangfuarctanx: openwrt-xburst/build_dir/linux-xburst_qi_lb60/linux-2.6.32.10/  is the kernel building folder.08:24
arctanxxiangfu: Thanks... I had been searching for something that looked more like mainline08:27
xiangfuLunaVorax, zear : use [sshfs root@192.168.254.101:/ /mnt] to mount the nanonote as disk08:30
zearxiangfu, we should add it to the wiki08:31
xiangfuzear: yes.08:31
LunaVoraxxiangfu: it doesn't work for me08:32
xiangfuzear: which wiki pages is better ? finding ...08:32
zeari am thinking of the "ethernet over USB" one08:34
LunaVoraxwow the screen acts strangely when i enter reboot in the command prompt08:41
wolfspraulmth: so Dingux is now also using the qi/openwrt kernel?08:43
mthopendingux is, but it's not released yet08:43
mththe code is available though: http://github.com/mthuurne/opendingux-kernel/commits/jz-2.6.3408:44
wolfspraulopendingux :-)08:46
wolfsprauldidn't hear about that name before08:46
LunaVorax:((( ??08:46
LunaVoraxIt has been twice that my nanonote suddently turned of while using it08:46
mthit's not very imaginative, but we had to pick some name08:46
zearwolfspraul, i like how they add "open" to an already open system :)08:46
wolfspraulmth: is dingux.com still active? what is Ignacio Garcia up to these days?08:46
wolfspraulLunaVorax: that is strange indeed08:47
wolfsprauljust turn off like that?08:47
zearwolfspraul, we haven't heard from him since september 2009 or so08:47
mthI don't know what he's up to, but he did not Dingux updates for over half a year08:47
LunaVoraxThe screen turned off08:47
mth-t08:47
wolfspraulwell maybe screen saver?08:47
LunaVoraxI don't know if the machine turned off or just the screen08:47
wolfspraulpress the ctrl key or so08:47
zearwolfspraul, he's not dead though, posted one comment on his blog saying he's alive, just too busy with his real life08:47
LunaVoraxwolfspraul: nothing08:47
mthzear: well, the source of Dingux was already open, but the development process was not, since booboo did everything08:48
zearand it is a bit disappointing that people donated him a gemei x760+ to port dingux on it, and soon after he disappeared08:48
mththe idea of opendingux is to get more people involved08:48
xiangfuzear: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ethernet_over_USB#Transfer_files :-)08:48
zearand i also think he got a nanonote, am i right?08:48
wolfspraulLunaVorax: hmm08:49
zearmth, still, a "dingux-ng" as for "new generation" would be a better name ;)08:49
wolfspraulhas anybody ever heard of problems with Nanos turning off by themselves?08:49
wolfspraulabsolutely first time for me08:49
mthzear: that's a matter of taste :)08:49
zearxiangfu, ah, great. Thanks for posting that on the wiki :)08:49
wolfspraulLunaVorax: first let's try to make it more repeatable. Turn off the Nano, boot again.08:50
zearmth, yeah, the name is not really important, just i think it sounds silly the way it is now :)08:50
LunaVoraxdone08:50
wolfspraulif you want to make sure you start from a known point, remove the battery and USB cable.08:50
wolfspraulthen the CPU has no power and it's guaranteed to be off08:50
zearwolfspraul, yes, it turned off by itself a couple of times for me08:50
LunaVoraxwolfspraul: it happenned when I was in console mode with Ctrl + Alt + F108:50
wolfspraulthen battery back in, press power button08:50
wolfspraulzear: ah, really? tell us more then08:50
wolfspraulhow/why/when/how did you fix it, etc?08:50
zearin the first days of my nanonote08:51
zeari think i haven't experienced it on newer kernels08:51
zearalso, it could be that the battery got disconnected somehow08:51
wolfspraulah good point08:51
zearlike, lose pins, etc08:51
wolfspraulLunaVorax: was your USB cable connected when it turned off by itself?08:51
zear*loose08:51
LunaVoraxboth, first it was connected second time it wasnt08:52
wolfspraulthe battery connector is not the way I want it, unfortunately08:52
wolfspraulwe try to improve this in Ya08:52
wolfspraulbut now it's the way it is, so we live with it...08:52
LunaVoraxssh connection isn't possible oob ?08:52
wolfspraulLunaVorax: maybe a software issue08:53
wolfspraullet's see08:53
wolfspraulit's booting now?08:53
LunaVoraxyes08:53
wolfspraulalready up?08:53
LunaVoraxyes08:53
wolfspraulhmm08:53
wolfspraulkeep an eye on it08:53
wolfspraulin general all I've heard is that the kernel (and device) are very stable08:53
wolfspraulI mean I'm using it myself all the time.08:53
wolfspraulbut of course you see what you see, so we need to find out what's going on...08:54
wolfspraulthere is always room for improvement08:54
LunaVoraxgoing in command line08:54
wolfspraulthe screen goes black for me after a while, but I never had a problem bringing it back08:55
wolfspraulalso I'm not sure whether that's a full suspend or just a 'screen off' mode08:55
wolfspraulI believe even full suspend should be stable.08:55
LunaVoraxoooh did it again T_T08:56
LunaVoraxI was connected to usb08:56
LunaVoraxIn command line and running "top"08:57
LunaVoraxit's a bit annoying08:57
zearwolfspraul, so.. the first 500 units are sold. But does that translate into an increased support from the community? Any new projects going on? Or the nanos got out of the qi-hardware's warehouses, but are still in the hands of the 3rd party distributors?08:58
wolfsprauloh he left...09:05
wolfspraulLunaVorax: yeah, strange09:05
wolfspraulwas the USB cable plugged in?09:05
LunaVoraxYes09:06
LunaVoraxNow I can't connect to my nanonote09:06
LunaVoraxohlala09:06
wolfspraulhmm09:06
wolfspraulone by one09:06
LunaVoraxConnection reufsed on port 2209:06
LunaVoraxyes09:06
wolfspraulso you booted again?09:06
LunaVoraxyes09:06
LunaVorax(and I can't connect)09:06
wolfsprauland it's up? but you cannot connect?09:06
wolfspraulcan you do 'telnet 127.0.0.1 22' on the device?09:07
wolfspraulI'd say disconnect and reconnect USB cable09:08
wolfspraulit's interesting, I tried to reproduce your problem and my device is sitting in the console and won't blank the screen at all09:09
wolfsprauljust stays on09:09
wolfspraulI believe I saw screen blanking in earlier images, maybe it's gone in the latest (0507)09:09
LunaVoraxI can't tell it telnet work09:10
LunaVoraxIt just hangs09:10
wolfsprauldo you see something on the screen? can you type?09:11
LunaVoraxapparently it worked09:11
LunaVoraxBecause it asked me to type other keys when I've done ctrl+c09:11
LunaVoraxI'm trying again just to be sure09:11
wolfspraulyes, ctrl-c then 'e' to exit telnet09:12
LunaVoraxyes09:12
wolfspraulI just wanted to see whether dropbear responds on the device09:12
LunaVoraxok09:12
wolfsprauldisconnect and reconnect your USB cable09:12
LunaVoraxdone09:12
LunaVoraxstill dont want to connect09:13
wolfspraulif you get 'connection refused', that's normally coming from the other side I think09:13
wolfsprauldid you setup a password?09:13
LunaVoraxso what should I do09:13
LunaVoraxyes09:13
LunaVoraxdo I have to set it up everytime ?09:14
wolfsprauldon't think so, I don't09:14
LunaVoraxok09:14
wolfspraulwhat should you do? don't know right now :-) relax and get a drink09:14
LunaVoraxhaha09:14
LunaVoraxit is indeed frustrating :/09:14
wolfspraulyou already made it this far at least with your Nano. reflashed it and booted. cherish the successes!09:14
LunaVoraxI still haven't played any music on it yet09:15
LunaVoraxhaha09:15
LunaVoraxi'll get some water brb09:15
wolfspraulyou will get to the bottom of the problems I'm sure09:15
wolfspraulthere you go :-)09:15
LunaVoraxhum09:16
LunaVoraxif only I could do ssh root@192.168.254.10109:18
xdpiratewolfspraul, should i remove the gmu mp3 thing on the wiki?09:18
xdpiratethat urandom_ added09:18
xdpirateit's still there, on http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_New_User_Guide#Making_GMU_play_MP3-files09:18
wolfspraulxdpirate: well I want to be nice to urandom, would like to explain it to him first09:19
wolfspraulI do not like deleting other people's stuff09:19
xdpiratei see, i'll leave it alone then09:19
wolfspraulwe already have to do this shitty policing only because of those patent parasites09:20
xdpirateum, i'm sorry but09:20
wolfspraulif he doesn't show up here for a while I will just delete it, or you can too, of course09:21
xdpirateisn't libmpg123 free and open-source?09:21
wolfspraulwhat can we do09:21
wolfspraulxdpirate: it's a long long story09:21
wolfsprauljust the bottom line is that some very respectable projects like Debian have also started to strictly remove all this stuff09:21
wolfspraulthe patent owners are playing smart games, I don't want to spend a lot of time now explaining all this nastiness09:21
xdpiratei see09:21
wolfspraulrather help LunaVorax with his practical problems...09:22
xdpirate^^09:22
wolfspraulDebian has kicked all this shit out09:22
wolfsprauland OpenWrt has also helped to flag some things as non-free and patented09:22
wolfspraulMP3 patents expire in a couple years, that's the only hope09:22
wolfspraulbut it's still 3-7 years or so, not very clear and the patent owners will be the last ones to clarify that09:23
kristianpaulhttp://autonomo.us/wiki/Servers_Setup09:23
kristianpauli think pople there must know what is beeng doing here that can help others09:24
wolfspraulwhy are they pointing to the Qi server setup document?09:25
kristianpauli pointed09:25
kristianpaulbad?09:25
wolfspraulno, not at all09:25
xdpiratewolfspraul, tell him to keep his instructions on his blog or something :P09:25
wolfspraulyou mean they should do the same for their servers?09:25
wolfspraulxdpirate: yes of course. in the wild internet :-)09:26
xdpiratei should set up a devblog too but i'm too lazy09:26
kristianpaulautonomo needed from my point of view also manuals aboout setuing up free services09:26
xdpiratewho controls the qi-hardware.com domain?09:26
kristianpaulwolfspraul: no no, is just for people want steps to follow for their own server09:26
kristianpaulfor seting up*09:26
wolfspraulxdpirate: I registered the domain09:27
wolfspraulthat's why I need to police the patent stuff09:27
wolfspraulthankfully09:27
wolfspraulshould send a bill somewhere...09:27
kristianpauli mean autonomo have a cool wush list but there is nothing about how to get working sofware in that list so qi wiki have good info about it :)09:27
xdpiratesweet, how about setting up a subdomain redirect to a future blog of mine? x]09:27
wolfspraulLunaVorax: ok I'm out for the day soon, what's the latest for your nano?09:28
LunaVoraxThe latest ?09:28
wolfspraulyeah are you still playing around?09:28
wolfspraulgotta find the source of your problem09:28
LunaVoraxWell no I'm kinda locked09:28
LunaVoraxI continue to try connect to it09:29
LunaVoraxI'll keep you up to date if I remember to go back to this irc chan09:29
wolfspraulrun 'ifconfig usb0'09:29
wolfspraulon the device09:29
wolfspraulis the network interface up?09:29
wolfspraulshould be09:29
wolfspraulif you get a 'connection refused' I think that must come from the actual dropbear09:30
LunaVoraxyes apparently09:30
wolfspraulrandom guess - just try 'passwd' again09:30
wolfsprauljust guessing...09:30
wolfspraulworst case just reflash the entire device again :-)09:30
kristianpaulwolfspraul: about 3D scanning i give up, they are asking me for 1500usd for the process :(09:30
wolfspraulgive yourself a bit of time to play with the device09:30
kristianpaulwolfspraul: anbd09:30
LunaVoraxsure !09:30
kristianpaulwolfspraul: i need that money fort other things ;)09:31
wolfspraulsure that's crazy09:31
wolfspraulkristianpaul: are you still trying to hookup that GPS module to TP4/5?09:31
kristianpaulwolfspraul: yes but i'm finishing the reprap  first, i need to be ready for cparty09:32
kristianpauls/i/it09:32
wolfspraulLunaVorax: for the 'turn off by itself' problem, just to rule out some things try to power the device over USB only (no battery)09:32
wolfspraulor with battery only (no USB)09:32
wolfspraulwe need to find a better pattern of what is really causing it09:32
LunaVoraxok i'll try that09:32
wolfspraulif you have a microSD card, you could also install Debian on it and try that - that's a totally different rootfs09:32
wolfspraulXiangfu just posted quite nice instructions on how to get this going09:33
wolfspraulfor now I can tell you, most likely, 99.9%, the hardware is just perfectly fine09:33
LunaVoraxI wonder if scummvm runs smoothly on the nanonote09:33
wolfspraulif you would have a hardware problem, you would in fact be the first one ever09:33
LunaVoraxwow09:33
wolfspraulthe hardware design, manufacturing, and production testing is really rock solid and mass-market quality09:33
LunaVoraxI'll be kind of proud if that happens :P09:34
wolfspraulwe have spent endless time and money to get this right (hardware quality)09:34
wolfspraulso we can focus on the software side09:34
wolfspraulbecause we know software is still rough in a lot of places09:34
wolfspraulgood software needs time to mature, especially free software which has other goals sometimes than proprietary software, especially around maintainability etc.09:34
wolfspraulbut anyway, all talk. your Nano has to be stable so you can enjoy it...09:35
LunaVoraxI think I'll have to reflash my nanonote09:35
LunaVorax:/09:35
wolfsprauldo you have a microSD card?09:35
wolfspraulmaybe you could try Debian09:35
LunaVoraxnot yet wolfspraul09:35
LunaVoraxDebian ?09:35
LunaVoraxOh ok09:35
wolfspraulyes09:35
kristianpaulsd will avoid reflash all time, i need one too )09:35
LunaVoraxI'm more used to debian anyway09:36
kristianpaulwolfspraul: are you runnng debian t09:36
kristianpaul?09:36
wolfspraulXiangfu just posted a mail with easy instructions on how to make this happen on one of the lists09:36
wolfsprauland he also updated the wiki09:36
kristianpaulyes09:36
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/w/index.php?title=Debian09:36
wolfspraulI am not running Debian (yet).09:36
wolfspraulbut with xiangfu's latest 'for dummies' level I think it's ready for me now09:36
kristianpauli like that option at least gcc is already there :)09:37
wolfspraulkristianpaul: yes, and LunaVorax could rule out openwrt-specific rootfs issues for his bugs09:37
wolfspraulat least he has another rootfs to compare with, could gie interesting results09:37
kristianpaulnice09:37
wolfspraulgive09:37
wolfspraulLunaVorax: take it easy a bit with the Nano, if you can. No stress.09:38
LunaVoraxdon't worry09:38
wolfspraulk :-)09:38
LunaVorax:P09:38
Action: xiangfu is try to install mplayer in debian in nanonote 09:38
wolfspraulah nice, mplayer09:38
LunaVoraxcan it play ogm ?09:38
Action: xiangfu just for fun. give that a try09:38
kristianpaulxdpirate: ohh let us now how it goes :)09:39
wolfspraulneed to hook it up to the CPU's SIMD instructions too...09:39
xiangfuLunaVorax: installing ...09:39
kristianpaulxdpirate: can you try tangogps too ? :)09:39
LunaVoraxHaha yes xiangfu, so you don't know yet what can it does ?09:39
LunaVoraxI definitely need to buy a microsd card09:39
Action: kristianpaul have one somwhere..09:39
xdpiratekristianpaul, did you quote the wrong name? =P09:45
kristianpaulxdpirate: ahh yes09:46
kristianpaulxiangfu: ^09:46
xdpirate^^09:46
xiangfukristianpaul: ok, tangogps after mplayer :-)09:47
xiangfu4 package left to unpack...09:48
xiangfunow unpacking mplayer :-)09:49
wolfspraulqwebirc71368: qwebirc91896 some people using the web interface, nice. welcome!09:51
wolfspraulLunaVorax: if we miss each other here, and you have more or new trouble with your Nano, please also don't hesitate to email our discussion list09:52
wolfspraulbest is to subscribe yourself first, then you can follow answers better09:52
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion09:52
wolfspraulthen you email to discussion@lists.qi-hardware.com09:52
LunaVoraxp09:55
wolfspraulbut then the most knowledgeable people actually hang out in irc anyway...09:56
Action: xiangfu use mplayer player [74MPatent_Absurdity_LQ_350kbit.ogv] in NanoNote. video works fine. but no sound.10:03
LunaVoraxno problem wolfspraul10:04
kristianpaulxiangfu: :D10:04
LunaVoraxtoo bad xiangfu :/10:04
kristianpaulfor move s!10:04
kristianpaulxiangfu: how feels the refrsh?10:05
xiangfukristianpaul: there is not sound module in debian kernel.10:06
kristianpaulxiangfu: but the video behaves... ?10:06
xiangfukristianpaul: video works fine.10:06
kristianpaul:)10:07
Action: xiangfu need a debian kernel with sound. 10:25
xiangfukristianpaul: Hi. now I am installing the tangogps.11:15
xiangfuNeed to get 32.9MB of archives. use 102M disk space.11:16
kristianpaulouch11:21
kristianpaulxiangfu: and runs after that?11:21
xiangfukristianpaul: no, now unpacking.11:22
kristianpaulok11:22
kristianpaulbrb in 2 hrs11:26
max_posedonDoes BenNanonote runs mainline kernel?  If not, could somebody point me to git kernel sources, can't find this info on wiki.11:28
larscmax_posedon: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/tree/master/11:35
lunavoraxHey it's me again !11:36
lunavoraxI've reflashed my nanonote and still got the same problem11:36
lunavoraxI just can make any connection to the nanonote11:37
lunavoraxJust ping it11:37
xiangfulunavorax: after reflash. setup password of root in NanoNote. when ssh again11:43
lunavoraxyes, that's what i've done xiangfu11:44
lunavoraxoh !11:45
lunavoraxit works11:45
lunavoraxsorry11:45
lunavoraxi had to do passwd twice as you said11:46
lunavoraxweird11:46
lunavoraxno wait11:46
lunavoraxIt doesn't quite work11:46
lunavoraxPort is open but password doesn't work11:46
lunavoraxHum11:47
lunavoraxNow I can make a connection but I password doesn't work11:47
xiangfukristianpaul: (tangogps:1626): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:  :-(11:49
lunavoraxNope it really doesn't work11:49
lunavoraxI'll reboot my nanonote11:49
lunavoraxHumf11:51
lunavoraxI'm doomed11:51
lunavoraxDoes the openwrt os support ext4 ?13:50
lunavoraxI mean what file system is supported for the microsd ?13:50
lunavorax(i finally found one in my house)13:50
larscext2 and ext3 should work13:54
kristianpaulext2 is fast13:56
kristianpaulfor sd13:56
kristianpaulhttp://wiki.opdevel.com/WRT54GL/FileSystem13:57
lunavoraxthank you kristianpaul apparently FAT doesn't work (?)14:15
kristianpauli dint tried14:16
kristianpaulit shoul14:16
kristianpauli dotn recommend it14:16
urandom_oh i thought mp3 is only a problem with shipping it preinstalled, fuck licensing shit!14:17
urandom_wouldnt it be ok just to say something like "you could use the binarys of the dingoo version but thats not supported"?14:19
newbie007does anyone know how I can emulate the ben nanonote?14:30
newbie007I just ordered one, I'd like to see and mess with it while I wait14:30
urandom_good question ^^14:32
newbie007next thing would be to know if it's possible to up the ram14:33
newbie007it's not compatible with puppy linux14:33
newbie007damn small might be able to run on it14:34
urandom_it is not possible i fear, there is SAKC which has 64mb14:35
urandom_well you have openwrt and debian for it14:36
urandom_http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/SAKC but it is not as portable14:36
newbie007sweet14:37
newbie007I'm more into software than hardware. I bought it when I read about it's opensource philiospy14:38
urandom_yeah me too14:38
newbie007could it play a movie?14:39
urandom_yeah of course14:39
newbie007thanks for the info14:40
lunavoraxAT LAST14:49
lunavoraxI finally succeded playing music from sdcard14:49
lunavoraxHowever my flac and wav files does not appear, the plugin for it isn't added ?14:50
urandom_it is not14:55
newbie007why were you having trouble playing from the sd card in the first place? (just curious)15:04
lunavoraxdarn newbie007 is gone15:25
lunavoraxurandom_, what is no ?15:29
lunavoraxnot*15:29
urandom_support for flac and wav is not on the official image already installed15:35
xdpiratePokeDex application for the Ben NanoNote - http://xdpirate.navhost.com/?p=1020:01
urandom_xdpirate you could make a mini game around this PokeDex20:05
xdpirateLike what? =P20:05
urandom_i dont know :P20:06
urandom_something you can play while waiting for the bus20:07
xdpiratelike20:07
xdpirateguess the pokemons name20:07
xdpirateit'll print its info and you guess the name20:07
urandom_well there are other things is should learn instead of names of pokemon but might be fun20:08
xdpiratehehe20:09
xdpirateor a trivia thing20:09
emebhey - I ordered a NanoNote the other day. Any idea how long I'll have to wait before it shows up?20:09
xdpiratelike 'which pokemon has a shell attached to it's tail?'20:09
xdpirateemeb, where'd you order from?20:09
emebxdpirate: sharism20:10
xdpirate~4 days20:10
xdpiratemax20:10
emebWow - that's better than I thought.20:10
emebSomeone somewhere was saying they were being built by hand to order.20:10
urandom_...well depends on where you live20:10
xdpirateemeb, http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Shipping_Notes20:10
xdpiratesome reports there20:10
emebI'm in AZ US20:11
xdpiratehttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Shipping_Notes#USA then :P20:11
emebGot it - thanks.20:12
emebThe stuff about filling out FCC form 740 - do I have to do that?20:12
xdpirateum, no idea, i'm based in europe20:12
emebok - thanks.20:13
xdpirate"'Importer's Name and Address' and 'Consignee's Name and Address' will be whoever ordered our products"20:13
xdpirate"'Entry Number' and 'Port of Entry' will be filled out by FedEx or other couriers"20:13
xdpirateseems like they do it for you20:13
xdpirate(they fill out your info on the form when they send it)20:13
xdpirateemeb, it actually says so right there20:14
xdpirate"US customers who order our product at our online shop don't need to worry about filling out FCC Form 740. The form will be prepared for you by Sharism once you place your orders. "20:14
emebRTFM.20:14
xdpirate(:20:14
urandom_ah and emeb they are not being built by hand to order, that was the pandora20:14
emebPandora... How long has it been?20:14
urandom_i think people had to wait for the pandora like two years or something like that ^^20:15
xdpiratePandora is overrated *cough*20:16
xdpirate£240 for a device that does what any cheaper laptop/netbook could handle >:)20:16
xdpirate£270*20:16
urandom_well it is a really nive handheld but not open hardware20:16
urandom_nice20:16
urandom_netbooks are a lot bigger20:17
emebDecent processor though - omap3530 is a powerhouse (I've got a Beagleboard)20:17
emebbut yeah - a lot of money20:17
urandom_well there are plans for a omap4 based nanonote for 200¬ :P20:17
emebWho is doing that?20:18
emebI know a guy here in the US who's thinking about it.20:18
urandom_not qi directly, some other team, they have been on irc one day20:18
emebbut AFAIK it's just in the "wouldn't it be cool if..." stage20:18
emebOK might be the same folks.20:19
emebprice range is about the same.20:19
emebso what do you do with your nanonote?20:19
emebtinker, port programs, etc...20:20
xdpiratecheck out pokeymanz20:20
xdpiratehttp://xdpirate.navhost.com/20:20
urandom_killing the time while waiting for the bus20:20
emebcute!20:21
xdpirate:P20:21
emebLooks like  you could port a variety of text-based games (adventure type stuff)20:21
xdpirateyeah zears frotz emulator already runs alot of them20:21
xdpiratefor example all zork games20:21
emebthere you go.20:21
xdpiratei don't actually have my nanonote yet tho20:22
emebI wonder about command-line utils.20:22
xdpiratewaiting for it to arrive :<20:22
urandom_and we can play all dingoo games!20:22
emebMaybe something like Octave for math/programming?20:22
urandom_well dingux games i mean20:22
xdpirateurandom_, without overclocking though :P20:22
xdpirateso many emulators doesn't behave good at 336 mhz20:22
xdpiratesnes needs 430 to run without slowdowns20:23
xdpirate(i got a dingoo)20:23
xdpiratewhich was what put me on to the nanonote in the first place20:23
xdpiratesame specs as a dingoo, but with a keyboard aswell20:23
xdpiratesounds like a deal to me20:23
urandom_and betther display as the a320!20:24
urandom_and micro-sd slot20:24
urandom_and hardware usb boot mode20:24
urandom_and being open hardware20:25
urandom_ok thats all i think :P20:25
urandom_the speaker is a bit bigger i think ^^20:26
xdpiratethe screen is already good on the a320, i have a bunch of sd sleeves anyway, there's a hardware usb boot mode on the dingoo too, and there's 2 speakers! :P20:28
urandom_ok they are both awesome20:29
urandom_xdpirate "I also write LUA, but thats pretty much useless for anything thats not a WoW AddOn" -> love is going to be ported on dingoo/nanonote so it will not be useless ;)20:44
xdpirateurandom_, hehehe :P20:45
urandom_omg love on nanonote will be so awesome, i really need to get some c++ skills so i can help20:47
xdpirateurandom_, I actually made that minigame for dex that i was talking about21:21
wolfspraulurandom_: ah there you are21:23
wolfspraulI saw you took out the MP3 section in the wiki already, thanks21:23
urandom_yeah21:23
wolfspraulI am sorry that I need to police this. have no real other choice.21:23
wolfspraulthe DNS is registered to me, and the servers too21:24
wolfspraulreally I apologize, please continue contributing to the wiki (non-MP3 please :-))21:24
urandom_sory i did not know it could be a problem, i thought it is only a problem shipping it with mp3 codecs preinstalled21:24
xdpirateHehe :P21:24
wolfspraulthe owners of the MP3 patents are super aggressive, I had to deal with them several times21:24
xdpirateurandom_, wanna take the dex for a spin?21:25
urandom_xdpirate yeah21:26
mthhow much longer will MP3 patents be a problem, by the way? they should expire in the not too distant future21:27
xdpirateurandom_, sweet, just test out the dex features (list by name or number), and the mini-game :) i'll compile it for mips now21:28
urandom_i hope they do soon expire , it is hard to explain to people why something cant be shipped with mp3 codecs installed21:29
wolfspraulmth: Wikipedia says they 'should' expire somewhere between 2013 and 201721:29
wolfspraulit will differ from country to country21:29
wolfsprauland the patent owners will do nothing to clarify this21:29
wolfspraulin fact they may well try to or have already found some way to latch newer patents onto it21:29
wolfspraulthey have a lot of time and lawyers to carefully think about every last option the law they are abusing offers for them21:29
xdpirateurandom_, just sent you a file over irc, it's the nanonote binary21:29
urandom_xdpirate dcc doesnt really work for me, just upload it for everyone21:30
xdpiratesure21:30
xdpiratehere you go - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7046011/dex.bnn21:31
xdpirateplease provide feedback (:21:31
urandom_wolfspraul so it is already illegal if you say you could download mp3 codecs from extern source? i dont understand this licensing shit21:33
wolfspraulurandom_: short story: the patent owners have allowed free software people to use their patents for free21:34
wolfspraulbecause they know they can't make money there anyway :-)21:34
wolfspraulbut not so for device manufacturers21:34
wolfspraulso they work with customs in the whole world to stop products that can play MP321:34
wolfspraulwhat they define as 'can play' is the maximum they can get away with in the law21:35
wolfspraulof course in theory, and if you have a compiler / source codes, every computer 'can play' MP321:35
wolfspraulif the law would let them they would claim that21:35
wolfspraulbut given as it is right now, they have a case against a device manufacturer if:21:35
wolfspraul1) the device as shipped can play MP3 ('can play' = normal user using the UI, not a C programmer writing code)21:36
wolfspraul2) MP3 play capability can be installed through an app-store, or any means controlled by the manufacturer21:36
wolfspraul3) the manufacturer ships documentation, or has instructions on how to play MP3 on any websites he controls21:36
wolfspraulso the problem is they will find me :-) and they will say you register the qi-hardware.com DNS, the servers21:37
urandom_but the documentation is not shipped, it is an wiki with user contributions21:37
wolfspraulyes21:38
wolfspraulthat's why they 'accept' that the wiki is cleaned as it is 'reasonably possible'21:38
wolfspraulso I see the MP3 -> I say "we have to delete this"21:38
wolfspraulthe law in action21:39
wolfspraulif I don't do this, much worse things will come after me21:39
wolfspraulI am actually very happy that the Debian project saw through their tricks and kicked out MP3 everywhere21:39
wolfspraulvery good!21:39
urandom_ah and next time i do something like that you dont have to wait for me, you can remove it yourself if you want to, just leave a short note why21:39
wolfspraulwhereas Canonical/Ubuntu helps them fool us all21:39
wolfspraulurandom_: no problem21:40
wolfspraulI hate to do this anyway.21:40
wolfspraulit's embarassing21:40
wolfspraulso I say: thank you Debian! Bad Ubuntu!21:40
wolfspraul:-)21:40
mthunfortunately there aren't many shops that sells Oggs21:41
mthMagnatune is the only one I know of at the moment21:41
urandom_well thats why i got the thinking it is ok, in many distribution you can just install the codecs21:41
wolfspraulI told you they play smart.21:41
wolfspraulthey learnt from the gif debacle21:41
urandom_and ubuntu is overrated anyway21:42
wolfspraulI cannot change the legal situation. So I comply and move on.21:42
wolfspraulthe MP3 situation caused endless pain at Openmoko21:42
wolfsprauland for some of the Openmoko distributors21:43
wolfspraulof course I hope the patents expire asap :-)21:43
wolfsprauluntil then it's MP2 (supposedly patent-free), Ogg, etc.21:43
mthI don't think anyone uses MP2 though21:44
wolfspraulDebian does21:44
wolfspraullast time I checked...21:44
mthwhy not Ogg Vorbis?21:44
wolfspraulmost MP3 players can also play mp221:45
mthah, that's true, Vorbis support in hardware is rare21:45
mthand in software it will drain the battery21:45
urandom_are tools for converting mp3 in something different "Illegal" too?21:45
mthdistributing them as part of a device without paying licensing probably is21:46
mthbut if you as an end user compile them for yourself, it's a different matter21:46
urandom_xdpirate i get segmentation fault21:48
xdpirate=/21:49
xdpiratethat's weird21:49
urandom_yeah it is21:49
urandom_does it run on your dingoo?21:50
xdpiratehaven't tried it yet21:50
xdpiratetry this21:50
xdpiratehttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/7046011/dex21:50
urandom_will try it, just have to reboot22:08
urandom_ok new dex still gives segmentation fault22:17
xdpirateurandom_, wow, that's very weird22:18
xdpirateit gives no compiler warnings, and runs fine when compiled for windows22:18
xdpiratedoes it segfault right away? does it display usage when called with no parameters?22:19
urandom_right away22:20
xdpirateah22:20
xdpirateit does so here too22:20
xdpiratesec22:20
xdpirateshould be fixed now22:20
xdpiratehttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/7046011/dex22:21
xdpiratethat should work for sure22:21
urandom_yeah!!!22:27
urandom_works22:27
xdpirate;)22:30
xdpiratelike the game? =P22:30
xdpirateit was your idea, you will be credited :322:30
urandom_playing the game at this moment22:32
urandom_like it :)22:34
xdpiratewohoo :P22:34
xdpiratei got kinda hung up with it myself, stopped coding for half an hour trying to get a high percentage :p22:34
urandom_but if you gues two times wrong shouldnt it ask if you want to play again?22:37
xdpirateyeah? it doesn't?22:38
xdpirateit does here22:38
urandom_it does i just got confused22:38
xdpirateah :P22:38
xdpirateif you input anything else but "y" or "Y" at the "try again" screen, it quits :P22:39
urandom_yeah i typed enter too fast22:39
xdpirateah x]22:39
urandom_oh couldnt it auto detect if parameter is a number?22:41
urandom_like if paramter is number, display pokemod with this number else if pokemon name then display pokemon with this name else if parameter is game then run game or so22:42
xdpirateyeah i'll do that later, for now it was easier to just use name or num as a parameter22:43
urandom_worse is better approach :P22:44
xdpirate(:22:45
urandom_oh and good job! will you release source so it can be includet in next official image? ;)22:45
xdpiratethanks mate22:46
xdpiratei'll release it once i actually get my nanonote lol,22:46
xdpirateand i'll add gen 2 pokemon too22:47
xdpirateAnother dex update - http://xdpirate.navhost.com/?p=1522:47
urandom_it would be cool if it could display pictures of the pokemon too this would make some different mode for the game possible22:48
xdpirateyeah, as stated in my previous blog post, i will probably make an sdl gui around it eventually, and make it usable on both dingux and the nanonote22:49
urandom_wow i got named two times on you blog22:49
xdpirate:P22:49
urandom_speaking of you blog, you could add my mp3 how to on it if you want (but someone should test is before)22:50
wolfspraulI'm smiling, hopefully the lawyers let me...22:51
xdpiratehehe, we'll see once i get the actual nanonote and get to fiddle around with it :)22:51
urandom_ok22:53
urandom_oh speaking of license shit, isnt pokemon copyrighted too? :P22:54
xdpirateyeah but the pokedex entries are readily available all over the internet, i think it qualifies as fair use22:54
xdpiratebulbapedia got shitloads of pokemon info, and they've been up for years :P http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Main_Page22:55
xdpirateusually game companies are quick to send C&D letters when they feel their copyrights are being violated22:55
urandom_well i think they dont want to mess up with fans and overlook some things22:57
xdpiratealso, this app is non-profit, non-commercial and for educational purposes only (:22:57
urandom_true22:58
xdpirate"the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright"22:58
wolfspraulwikipedia will not accept fair-use, neither do we (Qi hardware)23:01
wolfspraulwe follow wikipedia standards23:01
wolfspraulbut similar to MP3 that doesn't mean individuals can do whatever they like23:01
xdpiratewat23:01
wolfsprauls/can/cannot/23:01
xdpiratewikipedia accepts fair use23:01
wolfspraulso they can :-)23:01
wolfspraulxdpirate: no, definitely not23:01
wolfspraulI'll find the link for you, one sec23:02
xdpiratehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queued_image#Fair_use_images23:03
wolfspraulhttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Fair_use23:04
xdpirateThat's WikiMedia Commons23:04
xdpiratethat's a separate project from wikipedia, wikipedia allows fair use content as long as it's justifiable23:05
wolfspraulhe, you are right, but the link you give me states the exceptions, doesn't say fair-use justification is accepted23:05
wolfspraulit says it 'may' be acceptable23:05
wolfspraulbut you are right, Wikipedia accepts it in some circumstances23:05
xdpiratehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_use_rationale_guideline23:05
wolfspraulbut read those circumstances first23:05
xdpirate(:23:06
xdpirateanyway, it's 5 am here, i'm about to fall asleep at the keyboard23:06
xdpirateso i'm off for now, ya'll have a good one :)23:06
wolfspraulfair-enough to end a fair-use debate23:06
wolfspraul:-)23:06
wolfspraulcya23:06
wolfspraul11 AM here23:06
wolfspraul:-)23:06
urandom_wolfspraul how high is the chance that the Ya Nonote will get some kind of trackpoint?23:08
wolfspraulpuh, don't know23:14
wolfspraulreally cannot answer right now23:14
wolfspraulwe are trying to build a business, the more money we have the more fun stuff we can build23:14
wolfspraulso far I think the Ben is doing well23:14
wolfspraulI mean it's a tough, long struggle23:14
wolfspraulbut we knew that before23:14
wolfspraulso I really don't know23:15
wolfspraulif we keep selling them at the rate of say 50-100 a month, then we need to be extremely careful about every penny we spend on Ya23:15
wolfspraulreally literally every penny23:15
wolfsprauland then trackpoint won't make it23:15
wolfspraullike many other things23:15
wolfspraulbut if some larger Ben orders show up, say 1000 or so, hey, we suddenly have some cash and can invest more in Ya23:16
wolfspraulurandom_: does this answer your uestion?23:16
wolfspraulI think most important for Ya is:23:16
urandom_yeah23:16
wolfspraul1) USB host (maybe usb on-the-go)23:16
wolfspraul2) more memory (mobile DDR ram)23:16
wolfspraul3) some kind of RF23:16
wolfspraulafter that it's a long list, wait we have it in the wiki somewhere...23:16
urandom_yeah i know the page, thanks for the long answer23:17
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ya_NanoNote_Specs23:18
wolfspraulI think trackpoint is in there already23:18
wolfspraulthis list is basis for our work23:18
wolfspraulso if it's in there, it won't be forgotten23:18
wolfspraulbut it has to make economic sense23:18
wolfspraulso in other words we need to be able to afford to build a feature, and that investment needs to generate the additional sales to make that same money back23:18
wolfspraulwe already have lots of people working for free, and huge free software community help, all of this is not really sustainable in the long run23:19
wolfspraulbut with how things are going, so far so good :-)23:19
urandom_yeah i am trying to support this project as much as i can23:20
wolfspraulI also want to spend a little more time on typically invisible things23:21
wolfspraullike GPL'ed production testing software23:21
wolfsprauland maybe some work to free up the case design, although that heavily depends on free tools like HeeksCAD and mostly they are not ready for production23:22
wolfspraultransflective screen would be nice, many things would be nice23:22
urandom_lot of work to do23:23
wolfspraulyeah23:23
wolfspraulso we try to enjoy it as much as possible23:24
wolfspraultake some more time for the fun parts of it23:24
wolfspraulAdam is now doing some excellent work to document the SMT process23:24
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_SMT/DIP_Process_Flow23:25
wolfspraulit's for the Milkymist One board, but once we establish a certain 'quality level' for free documentation, we will aim for that level on any copyleft production we are doing23:25
wolfspraulthere's a lot more we can dig up there to bring copyleft hardware alive, we are really pioneers so it takes some time to even establish what exactly a 'good' copyleft hardware product is23:26
wolfspraulI want to have some kind of checklist23:26
wolfspraulso we know what we are working towards23:26
wolfspraulbecause in the end, the project is only successful if there are truly independent improved products made by someone23:27
wolfsprauland that's a long way out I think23:27
urandom_taking copyleft hardware serious requires a lot of extra work that nobody is seeing, other projects like pandora just call themselfs open cause it can run linux and get away with it23:28
urandom_well wasted enough of your time, getting some sleep now23:32
wolfspraulStart from ground, fly in the sky!23:38
wolfspraulhttp://east3yrswest3yrs.blogspot.com/2010/05/13-open-source-hardware-companies.html23:39
wolfspraulAdam is having fun, good...23:39
--- Sun Jun 6 201000:00

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