#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2010-05-26

lekerneltuxbrain_away, opencore's ethmac is bloated04:11
lekernelmilkymist's minimac should fit without problem on the sakc04:11
wolfspraullekernel: hey I was wondering...04:18
wolfspraulyou mentioned several times someone should try to reverse-enginee the xilinx binary format04:19
wolfspraulI finally warm up to this idea, see the need, etc. How hard do you think this really is?04:19
lekernelnot very hard04:20
lekernelthere is already a methodology, some tools and info available at ulogic.org04:20
lekernelbut all of this is very dirty and the guys didn't properly finish the work04:20
lekernelthe hard part, however, is to write a synthesis frontend - despite the fact all docs are available for this04:21
tuxbrainlekernel: mmm  good , maybe in parallel of SACK production we have to start a FPGA library, like opencores but more open, only need to register to upload not to download, an also offering compiled bit files ready to upload to the FPGA at least on SACK04:32
lekernelmore quality as well...04:32
lekernel99% of opencores sucks technically04:32
tuxbrainI have no such criteria  to know what is good and what is bad, then this migh require levels of quality to let the newbies like me also upload some crappy developments meanwhile is tagged as such.04:35
lekernelopencores also has such a tagging system... the problem is it's self-assessed, and people tend to overestimate their design skills04:37
lekernelI mean, it's *really* a problem04:37
lekernelmost opencores design aren't just bad, they're way beyond that04:37
tuxbrainI'm thinking more on expert group of moderators04:37
tuxbrainbut will be hard to find to do it for free, usually those kind of experts had work enough for trhee lives04:38
lekernelyeah... maybe just a distributed review system might be fit04:40
lekernelyou can attribute a note to other people's code04:40
lekerneland your note weights more if yourself has got good reviews04:40
tuxbrainnot bad idea indeed04:41
lekernelseriously something has to be done about quality04:41
lekernelotherwise the whole open source logic design thing is just going to be a bunch of crap04:41
tuxbrainI agree and more if this finally is intended to do ASIC at the end04:42
tuxbrainwolfspraul: maybe a interfero as backend to make the cores colaborative friendly with a frontend  with enchanced navigation ant this evaluation system? (not for be done tomorrow but to have in mind)04:46
tuxbrainregarding mini-mac, that means than uploading this module taking care of the I/O pins I can plug a rj45 and voilá04:50
lekerneler, no04:50
lekernelwell for the connection to the RJ45 yes04:50
lekernelbut at the other end you have a DMA master and a CSR control interface04:51
lekernelthat need to be connected into a SoC04:51
tuxbrainhehehe I expect that anwswer04:51
lekernelbtw it's not connected directly to the RJ45, but through a MII PHY04:51
tuxbrainand this MII PHY can be also implemented in FPGA?04:53
lekernelno, it contains analogue electronics04:54
tuxbrainso RJ45->MII PHY->(on FPGA)mini-mac->(on FPGA)Interface with CPU->(kernel)device driver->voilá?05:01
tuxbrainthen is "just" matter of find a MII PHY thing , develop a interface with CPU, I hope we can use some already done device driver and "that's all" to have Ethernet on SACK.... damn05:06
lekernelthere isn't any already done device driver05:06
tuxbraindouble damn05:06
lekernelbtw minimac (as well as opencore's ethmac) is meant for using in a SoC05:06
lekernelso they expect to DMA directly into the CPU memory, simply as another bus master05:07
lekernelthis might not be possible with the xburst05:07
lekernela workaround, however, is to put a SRAM in the FPGA05:07
tuxbrainand now give me the good news05:07
lekernelmake the minimac DMA into it05:08
lekernelmap it into the xburst memory space05:08
lekerneland then make the drivers put all the ethernet buffers into that SRAM05:08
lekernelthe good news? well05:09
lekernelmilkymist can do TFTP netboot, respond to ping, and run a webserver using minimac05:09
lekernelso the core pretty much works05:09
tuxbrainlet's define the good news as is theoretically posible to do so :)05:11
rafalarsc: tuxbrain : does somebody have thought to do some boot loader? I was thinking in this idea :10:50
rafa- kernel on nand has set kexec10:50
rafa- kernel boots and starts a minimal ramfs which loads and boots another kernel in rootfs nand.10:51
rafaThis idea could be useful to (perhaps) to update the rootfs distribution without the usb mode thing which is a little ugly to do.10:51
rafawell, at least I think that we will try this idea in Jlime (if kristoffer agrees with me to try it ;) )10:53
rafa(i am talking about ben nn BTW :) )10:54
larscrafa: whats wrong with uboot?11:21
rafalarsc: nothing is wrong I think. I am thinking some way to avoid Boot your NanoNote into USB BOOT mode to update ben nanonote software11:24
larsci would like to use dfu-util.11:25
larscmirko wants to use a simple webinterface though11:26
larscbut yeah, kexec would be another option11:27
rafalarsc: okey, but I would try a pure software way with the current nn configuration/software. So we could update the rootfs just booting nn and before to kexec the current rootfs distro.11:28
rafalarsc: so... you like the idea ? (I would like your opinion to know if it is a waste of time :) )11:29
larscstill undecided. but i think it's worth looking at it.11:33
xakhSo, I have a friend that wrote a game originally for J2ME phones, meant to run at SVGA resolution16:22
xakhwell, originally for QVGA16:23
xakhbut can be patched16:23
xakhso, if he could get it ported, and running nicely, you think we could have it included in the main image, as one of the programs to showcase the nano?16:24
xakhI can't get the date to stay set18:33
xakhcan anyone help?18:33
xakhlike, every boot or every other boot it reverts back to 197018:33
zearxakh, is the battery charged?18:35
zearalso, if you pull the battery out, the RTC will reset18:35
xakhthe what?18:35
zearreal time clock18:35
zearthing that keeps the time when the system is off18:35
xakhit has a short in it, and if I drop it it turns off.18:35
xakhlemme check something18:35
xakhevery time it turns off18:36
xakhit resets18:36
xakhlike, no matter what18:36
zearxakh, remove the battery and plug in the usb18:36
zeardoes it still reset when you reboot?18:36
xakhlemme check18:37
xakhalso, it seems the hardware clock works fine18:37
xakhhard to explain18:37
xakhit's been six days since I bought it, and it claims it's the 6th day in february18:37
xakhand the date says it's january 618:39
xakhso the hw clock works fine18:39
xakhit just won't let me change it18:39
mthwhat command do you use to set the clock?18:40
mthby default "date" sets only the system clock, not the hardware clock18:40
xakhand it even resets when I reboot18:40
mthit needs an extra option to do so18:40
xakhwhat's the option?18:40
mthor maybe it's even a separate command18:41
mthon my desktop there is the "hwclock" command to copy system time to the hwclock18:41
mthbut I think on the Dingoo it was an extra option to "date"18:42
mthI don't have a NanoNote myself18:42
mthbut try "date --help" or "man date"18:42
xakhI did18:42
xakhit was an option in hwclock18:42
xakhlemme check18:43
xakhyou guys rock.18:44
xakhit worked!18:44
xakhgimme a sec18:45
xakhit even works when you yank out the battery!18:46
zearxakh, not for long19:05
zearit needs the source of power to keep the clock alive19:06
xakhWell, I'll keep it charged up a bit.19:06
xakhis that a feature request for the Ya?19:08
xakhso I really wanna get cracking porting stuff over to the NanoNote21:52
xakhwhere do we start?21:52
xakhhey, guys. I decided to start a little project.21:59
xakhI'm going to attempt to compile leafpad on the nanonote22:00
xakhso I can use it for quick note taking22:00
xakhhttp://tarot.freeshell.org/leafpad/ for anyone that doesn't know what I'm talking about22:00
xakhis anyone on?22:26
xakhI need to add a user to the nanonote22:26
wolfspraulxakh: you are often in irc when not many people are around :-)22:29
wolfspraulare you in the US?22:29
xakhbut I try to stay up late to get in touch with you guys22:30
wolfspraulwest coast?22:30
xakhfor instance it's 2230 here22:30
xakhno, I'm in West Virginia22:30
wolfspraulI'm in China, so you often catch me, but even though I would like to do more hacking, in the end all my time is wasted running aroud meeting people, vendors, etc.22:30
wolfspraulI can barely catch up building stuff for my Nano.22:30
wolfspraultoo many things going on too fast22:31
xakhwell, I have a tiny hack right now22:31
wolfspraulstill haven't even tried Debian! argh...22:31
wolfspraulyou have something you would like to feedback/commit to the openwrt builds?22:31
xakhI can't find the adduser system22:31
xakhWell, I have a friend who made games designed for J2ME phones22:32
xakhand he's working to port a free software shooter22:32
xakhit uses code to actively turn SVG files into meshes, making it able to run on 16mb of RAM22:33
xakhbut anyway, right now I'm trying to hack in a new user22:34
wolfspraulunderstood, but don't know the answer22:35
xakhWell, you think we could include a compact adduser in the next release?22:40
Action: FrankBlues waves22:50
wolfspraulxakh: sure but I don't know enough about openwrt22:50
FrankBluesHey! How goes?22:50
wolfspraulit's an openwrt question22:50
wolfspraulFrankBlues: goes well, thanks. how about you?22:52
FrankBluesVICE keeps complaining my hardware isn't fast enough...22:52
xakhpretty good myself22:52
FrankBluesBut other than that I'm doing well, thanks!22:53
xakhI'm having an annoying problem.22:57
xakhtar -x seems to just hang23:00
xakhI'm trying to compile something23:01
xakhdoes this thing not have gcc?23:11
xakhwolfspraul: do you know if the NanoNote has gcc?23:12
xakhbecause this file says I don't have it23:12
wolfspraulxakh: I'm pretty sure I heard someone saying they have gcc running on the NanoNote, but forgot the details23:14
wolfspraullet me check whether it's in the packages we are building...23:15
wolfspraulxakh: no it's not23:16
wolfspraulso what I remember must have been on Debian23:17
xakhwolfspraul: is there a way to get gcc running?23:17
xakhDebian doesn't have gmenu2x though23:19
xakhseriously, though23:23
xakhcan I get it on an ipk?23:26
wolfsprauldon't know23:27
wolfspraulit's not included in the packages we build23:27
wolfspraulanother option is to check the packages openwrt upstream builds23:27
wolfspraulone sec23:27
xakhhow do you build without a way to compile?23:27
wolfspraulno, same23:28
wolfspraulxakh: openwrt is a cross-compilation environment23:29
xakhwhich means...23:29
xakhthere's a libgcc23:32
xakhis that similar?23:32
wolfspraulI'd say the quickest way to get gcc to your Nano is to try Debian23:37
xakhalright. I've just got all kinds of cool stuff23:37
xakhyou think you could compile the package for me?23:42
wolfspraulI think if you have something post the links to the developer list, someone will get to it first...23:46
wolfspraulI don't have the build environment setup here.23:46
xakhwhere's the dev list?23:48
wolfspraulit's better if you subscribe, http://en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/developer23:49
xakhokay, now that I'm subscribed23:56
xakhhow do I post?23:56
xakhoh, wait, I got it.23:58
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