#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2010-05-19

qi-commitsMirko Vogt: Merge branch 'xburst' of git@projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-xburst into xburst http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/2232bd307:20
qi-commitsMirko Vogt: disable examples (they require additional symbols) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e83146907:20
foxtrotanyone know of a source for used/stripped nanonotes?08:05
foxtrotIm just trying to do MIPS assembly, nothing else08:05
foxtrotso I dont need any frills08:05
foxtrotand im poor :)08:05
foxtrothi again09:41
foxtrot(in case anyone replied)09:41
mthno replies yet09:45
mthyou could use qemu to simulate a MIPS machine09:45
foxtroti'd prefer to get a nanonote and operate out of my trousers tho :)09:46
kristianpaulfoxtrot: mips router like wrt54gl are othe starting point10:09
kristianpaulbut nanonote is just neat :)10:10
tuxbrainfoxtrot, I think there is not enough nanonotes out there to a second hand market yet, and the ones who one... well is so lovely machine than I guess it will be hard they want it to sell at lower price than they cost :P10:11
Action: FrankBlues waves10:14
Action: foxtrot nods10:17
foxtroti have a lot of SGI gear that I can do MIPS dev on the desktop/network10:17
foxtrotbut i just want the wow factor of being able to sit in a cafe with the nanonote and actually try to convince someone im actually doing real work :)10:18
tuxbrainwhere are you foxtrot?10:19
tuxbrainthen your best option is to buy it directly at sharims.cc10:29
foxtrotfor $99?10:30
tuxbrainor get married with a nanonote owner :P10:30
foxtroti wish I could like offer a trade :)10:30
FrankBluesIs there a way to keep ubuntu's network-manager applet to keep from managing the nanonote's usb0 device?10:49
foxtrotwhat GUI setup are you using?11:00
FrankBluesNetbook remix / gnome11:03
foxtrotsorry i cant help11:08
foxtrotbut id love to see a screenshot :)11:08
FrankBluesIt's not very interesting, just functional.11:09
FrankBluesI have to wait at a terminal for network-applet to decide it doesn't want to deal with the interface. If I manually ifconfig usb0 before the applet is done, the configuration gets reset at the end of whatever it is network-applet is doing.11:10
foxtroti just learned about the nanonote today11:10
foxtrotbut from what i read i didnt even realize it could runXorg11:11
FrankBluesI haven't seen a fullon X running, just stuff in SDL.11:11
FrankBlues(the configuration issue is my netbook talking to the nanonote)11:12
sid__hi, i try to build directfb/lite, install fails. can someone take a look12:43
sid__http://pastebin.com/MHAGjGFB  http://pastebin.com/aiBYbdMH12:43
sid__for dfbterm12:43
Action: FrankBlues waves13:33
jd823592Hello, are there aims to produce a more useful laptop than ben might be? i mean its nice, i would love to have one but what about a commonly scaled netbook based on similar MIPS arch. with little bigger display and space for battery, wi-fi support or ethernet card would be great.. i thing such device could compete with todays best selling computers14:09
kristofferI believe there are already such computers, you googled for it?14:20
jd823592you really mean open hardware ones?14:25
kristofferWell, maybe not fully open, but pretty much known hardware.14:27
jd823592i just thought it would be nice to create a usable open hardware laptop or netbook or whatever that many of us would love to use and support, because i think you are hope of people who would like to see such device14:29
prpplaguejd823592: there is some discussion from a third party about making a version of the nanonote with an OMAP4 core14:30
prpplaguejd823592: in addition the cherrypal is now available as well14:30
jd823592what is that?14:30
jd823592omap4 is ARM.. is it open?14:31
prpplaguejd823592: open in what way?14:32
jd823592schematics, all about its design..14:33
jd823592concept and also specifics of implementation14:33
prpplaguejd823592: well the core is not open, but everything else is14:34
prpplagueor more accurately "will be" when it is available14:34
jd823592well but i care about the core as well14:34
prpplaguejd823592: virtual no cores are open14:35
prpplaguejd823592: as a matter of fact i don't know of a single one14:35
jd823592i want an open hardware that i can support with free software.. and be happy about the ideology :)14:35
prpplaguejd823592: nothing wrong with ARM to fulfill that need14:35
jd823592well there still is problem.. if i wanted some manufacturer to create a duplicate of my processor he wouldnt be able.. cause he would not know what my processor really is inside14:36
jd823592thats a theoretical problem14:37
jd823592but ideologically it matters14:37
prpplaguejd823592: duplicate of your processor?14:37
jd823592that was not meant for really14:38
jd823592i mean14:38
jd823592i want to be able to ask someone to create few more of those one of which i have in my computer... but thats not possible if i dont have the schematics14:38
prpplaguejd823592: ok you are confusing two different things14:39
jd823592am I? which ones?14:39
prpplaguejd823592: the core and the reference design are two different things14:39
jd823592i know14:39
prpplaguejd823592: reference design is open, core is not14:39
prpplaguejd823592: the reference design for the nanonote is open, but the processor is not14:39
prpplaguejd823592: another example of an open design is the beagleboard which has an omap3 , every aspect of the board is open, you even get manufacturing files14:41
prpplaguejd823592: but the parts such as the OMAP3 are closed parts14:41
jd823592but that is not correct for me... i am able to support nanonote with compatible processor when it comes to instruction set, power supply requirements etc.. not when it comes to drawbacks, bugs etc..... this means that if i take two groups of nanonote clones.. each group created by one manufacturer each of them may manifest different problems14:42
prpplaguejd823592: i did not understand your statement14:43
prpplaguejd823592: please try to explain it again14:43
jd823592if.. one day there is no one producing nanonotes for example14:48
jd823592i may take the schematics and let someone create a new one14:48
jd823592but the processor will be different14:48
prpplaguewhy would it be different?14:48
jd823592because the implementation the new manufacturer chooses may look totally different.. only thing he has to do is to make it look the same on the outside14:49
jd823592but no one never manages to do so14:49
jd823592and if there was a difference in floating point calculations  than also different results may be met14:50
prpplaguei am sorry i do not understand, the design files are open, the parts list is open, anyone that wants to make a nanonote can do so14:50
prpplagueor beagleboard for that matter14:50
prpplaguejust like any one of a thousand boards14:50
Action: prpplague thinks jd823592 might not understand how manufacturing of open design boards works14:51
jd823592never mind.. i am most probably wrong14:51
jd823592ok ok14:51
jd823592what i was told was14:52
jd823592that the specifications that are called reference design are just guides not specific drawings of how the chip itself looks.. that the core may look completely different and it might be created with a different technology it just has to do the same14:54
jd823592but i am obviously wrong14:54
jd823592sry to bother you14:54
prpplaguejd823592: i think you might have misunderstood the role of the reference design and open designs play14:55
prpplaguejd823592: anyone can by the parts that make up the nanonote, they give you the list of the parts14:55
prpplaguejd823592: anyone can make the board, they give you gerber files14:56
prpplaguejd823592: they give you all the data for you to make an exact duplication of the nanonote14:56
prpplaguejd823592: let me give you an example14:57
prpplaguejd823592: this is the beagleboard - http://beagleboard.org/hardware14:57
prpplaguejd823592: they provide the design materials, just like nanonote, http://beagleboard.org/hardware/design14:58
prpplaguejd823592: anyone can make their own beagle board, and someone has done just that - http://www.ebv.com/en/products/categories/details/product/ebvbeagle-board.html14:58
prpplaguejd823592: they took the exact same design files and produced an exact copy14:58
prpplaguejd823592: you can too if you want to spend the money14:59
jd823592but why then did you say that the core is not open14:59
prpplaguejd823592: the core==processor15:01
prpplaguejd823592: the core processor is closed, you can not manufacturer the core processor yourself15:01
prpplaguejd823592: you can _buy_ the processor15:01
jd823592but i was talking about the processor all the time.. not the board15:02
prpplaguejd823592: and as i said, i know of no core processors that are open15:03
prpplaguejd823592: and if there is one, i am sure you will have trouble finding someone to manufacturer it15:03
prpplaguejd823592: manufacturing silicon such as processor takes alot of money15:05
jd823592i know15:05
prpplaguejd823592: most companies like TI with the OMAP3 and OMAP4 make vast amounts of information about the processor public15:05
jd823592other thing: is the main board supported by coreboot?15:05
jd823592probably not, right?15:06
jd823592that would be nice thing but coreboot might be aimed at different devices15:06
prpplaguejd823592: coreboot, is normally for x86 devices, not ARM.15:06
jd823592i thought so15:06
prpplaguejd823592: ARM doesn't not require a BIOS like x8615:06
jd823592ah ok my bad again15:07
jd823592so if i wanted ARM/MIPS processor based netbook that is open (in the way ben nanonote is (i hope this is right)) what would you recommand me?15:11
prpplaguehttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Cherrypal-Asia/   or   http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/15:12
jd823592i apologize15:13
jd823592well i shouldnt have fought for my wrong ideas about how it is15:14
prpplagueahh, hehe15:14
jd823592i didnt understand15:18
larsci wouldn't recommend the cherrypal. it's quasi-scam15:18
prpplaguelarsc: yea i have heard that as well, i ordered one last week, we'll see if it shows up15:19
jd823592the touch book looks very nice but too expensive for me :(15:20
larscprpplague: a friend of mine ordered one. got one with only half of the promised specs and it doesn't even run linux.15:21
larscprpplague: http://blog.hep-cat.de/?p=6231#Preliminary15:22
prpplaguelarsc: oh thanks for the info15:22
Action: prpplague looks15:22
prpplaguelarsc: interesting15:25
prpplaguelarsc: we'll see if mine shows up15:25
prpplaguelarsc: to be honest, i was more interested in the case design15:25
prpplaguelarsc: the cherrypal was one of the open design platforms i was looking at for an omap4 project15:26
prpplaguelarsc: thanks for the info15:28
Action: prpplague won't get his hope's up15:28
prpplaguelarsc: to be honest i wasn't sure about the nanonote either15:28
tuxbrain_awayI don't recoment touchbook either, very loosy quality, very heavy and totally unbalanced, if you put the screen a little more than 90 degrees it will overturn, I have one of those, I have made a second order I quick canceled once I received the first one15:33
prpplaguetuxbrain_away: yea they fixed the overturn issue15:34
kristianpaultuxbrain_away: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10089419.stm15:37
kristianpaul3D printing will soon come up against laws made in a world of factories and machine tools, and the battle is likely to be even more intense than that over music and films. Bill Thompson15:38
Action: prpplague was just discussing making some boards for 3d printing15:38
kristianpaulprpplague: yeah the goal will be achieved as soon the depositing conductive material and make paths for SMD stuff15:41
kristianpauli think15:41
prpplaguekristianpaul: yea15:42
kristianpaulprpplague: do you have  reprap machine and a nanonote?15:43
prpplaguei have nanonote, but not a reprap or makebot15:43
prpplaguethere are some people using the beagleboard and my trainer board to experiment with reprap, depending on how their tests go, i might make a reprap i/o board15:44
prpplagueare you familiar with the beagleboard?15:44
kristianpauli just saw some pics and read some basic stuff some moths ago15:45
kristianpauli think nanonote board could be used to experimentar driving a reprap/cnc machine15:45
Action: prpplague manufactures and sells the tainer board http://www.elinux.org/BeagleBoard_Trainer15:45
kristianpaulhow much?15:47
prpplaguesells for $59.0015:47
prpplaguethe beagleboard retails for $149.0015:47
prpplaguefor which item?15:48
prpplaguekristianpaul: why do you feel the the $149 is excessive?15:49
kristianpaula nanonote is 99 :)15:51
kristianpaulwith baord + screen + case + keryboard15:51
kristianpauland still expensive for losts of countries around the world15:51
prpplagueyea, problem is that the nanonote doesn't provide a platform to develop on for newer technologies such as android that allow people to gain skills for work15:52
kristianpaulwell... android... google ... :)15:53
kristianpaulyou can port android to a nano if you want15:54
prpplagueindeed, problem is that many of the new cell phones will have the same processor as the beagle, hence it provides a good test bed15:56
prpplaguebut i understand your statement15:56
prpplaguehence the reason we are looking to put OMAP4 in the nanonote15:56
prpplagueto provide a good platform for devrs to use for practical development on omap415:57
prpplagueomap4 based nanonote will be more expensive though15:57
kristianpaulyes and remeber ingenic allow us make something that TI will no15:58
prpplaguekristianpaul: i am sorry i did not understand your statement16:04
kristianpaulprpplague: i had read the ingenic will give best support for this chips16:06
larscwhen it comes to specs and datasheet ti is actually more open then ingenic16:08
prpplaguekristianpaul: ahh right, well, support isn't an issue, hehe16:08
kristianpaulprice !16:08
Action: prpplague is guessing no one has done a /whois on prpplague16:08
larscshould we? ;)16:09
kristianpaulahh you ! the man in facebook ;)16:10
prpplaguethe main in facebook?16:10
prpplaguethe man in facebook?16:10
kristianpauljust kidding16:10
Action: prpplague has no sense of humor16:10
kristianpaulwonder how many time our names are in facebook16:10
kristianpaulprpplague: ok sorry16:11
prpplaguekristianpaul: hehe16:11
prpplaguekristianpaul: a nanonote style omap4 platform would probably be around $19916:11
kristianpaulas larsc said seems true TI provides lots of data16:11
kristianpaulahh you16:11
kristianpaulyeh i remenber16:11
prpplaguekristianpaul: we are just researching it right now16:12
prpplaguei've already gutted one of my nanonotes and have the lcd and keyboard working with omap416:12
kristianpaulwhat about avr32 ??16:12
prpplagueTI doesn't sell avr3216:12
kristianpaulyes i know16:12
kristianpauli wasd thinking in avr and its great support to free sofware16:13
prpplaguehehe, *cough* well it would be a hard sell to try and use avr32, hehe16:13
kristianpaulthat omap have built-in gps/wifi stuff?16:15
prpplaguehere are the specs we are looking at, omap4, HDMI w/audio, WL1271 wifi+bt, OTG slave/host port16:16
prpplaguethe next get WL1283 chipset has gps/wifi/bt/FM rx.tx16:16
kristianpaulif just TI drop the price a bit ;)16:16
kristianpaulohhh 1 Ghz + Dual core?16:17
kristianpaulwhat about power comsuption?16:17
prpplaguei'm doing some tests now using the nanonote lcd and feature set using the 850mA battery for the nanonote16:18
prpplaguewe'll see16:18
mirko_anyone awake working on the pictureframe / openmotion?20:39
kristianpaulohhh lovelly http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Ben_gmenu.JPG22:39
kristianpaulYi thanks !22:42
DocScrutinizerhmm, seems you guys having fun with nanonote22:46
kristianpaulyeah !22:53
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Ben_stardict.JPG :)22:54
kristianpaulYi !! :)22:54
foxtrotis there a mouse on the nanonote23:45
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