#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2010-05-05

qwebirc83180hi, is there any possibility to implement wifi/bluetooth on Ben nanonote?00:00
qwebirc83180use usb wifi/bt dongle?00:00
wolfspraulspectec sdw-823 is a microSD wifi card00:04
wolfspraulbut it's only recommended for hackers I'd say. too expensive.00:04
wolfspraulnot even for hackers, only for people really crazy about it for some reason :-)00:05
wolfspraulqwebirc83180: one sec I'll find the link for you00:06
wolfspraulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_Wi-Fi00:06
wolfspraulyou cannot use USB because USB on the Ben is client only, not host00:06
wolfspraulunless you talk to a host like the Neo FreeRunner which could in turn connect you to Wi-Fi/BT (I don't think anybody every tried that, also expensive and error prone)00:07
wolfspraulthe spectec card is your best bet for wi-fi00:07
wolfspraulhttp://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=14079800:08
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: thanks for your very detailed introduction!00:25
qwebirc83180and yes, microSD is very expensive, almost the same price as Ben00:26
wolfspraulqwebirc83180: yes, first I just tried to answer your question00:34
wolfspraulbut depending on your background, maybe the easiest way to describe it is that if the Ben is not interesting to you without RF, then it's not interesting at all right now00:35
wolfspraulbut of course that's up to you, since I don't know what your plans are :-)00:35
wolfspraulthe best connectivity comes from the USB cable right now00:36
wolfsprauland we can still improve software quite a bit to get more out of what is theoretically possible there00:36
wolfspraulI use USB Ethernet to connect to my Nano, maybe we should work on how ethernet & mass-storage could co-exist. not sure that works yet or not.00:37
qi-commitsXiangfu Liu: [xbboot] rename docs to doc http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/18cac7801:09
qi-commitsXiangfu Liu: [debian] add xbboot manual to package http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/d41198501:09
qi-commitsXiangfu Liu: [xbboot] add xbboot manual file http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/144140301:09
tuxbrainAny one have contact with pyneo guy/s?01:15
wolfspraultuxbrain: I think it's emdete and/or josch_ ? I'm not sure... :-)01:18
tuxbrainok, I hope they have listen me in make a rootfs tar.gz version to boot debian from uSD, can you emdet, josch_ ping me back about if its possible to have it?01:25
wolfspraulyes I hope we can document how the debian rootfs was created01:26
wolfspraulalso I hope we can have a unified kernel between openwrt and debian, actually I think mirko is already working towards that01:27
Action: tuxbrain will work once debian on usd on nand flashing/backup from sd and avr compile/flashing , maybe some java stuff too01:39
tuxbrainnand flashing from sd card might help windows guys to come in, due uSD card is the only interface they have to exchange data with BNN01:42
tuxbrainwell they can also use serial console through Hyperterminal :P01:45
tuxbrainxianfu: what is the maximum size of the fat partition to boot from sdcard?01:47
tuxbrainxiangfu: what is the maximum size of the fat partition to boot from sdcard?01:48
josch_tuxbrain: hey01:52
josch_tuxbrain: the rootfs was created by me invoking debootstrap01:52
josch_tuxbrain: and by emdete running a few apt-gets01:52
josch_tuxbrain: no big magic there01:52
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: well, generally, Ben nanonote is good01:57
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: I intend to use Ben as a field programming platform for my robot01:57
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: so, if it has wireless then it's should be more better01:58
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: BTW: for dictionary and wiki storaeg, just 2GB storage is not enough01:58
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: at least 16GB internal storage should be provided01:58
wolfspraulqwebirc83180: true but that's just theoretical thinking :-)01:59
wolfspraulthe Nanos we ship right now have a 40 MB rootfs on them01:59
wolfspraulthat's not because we keep the other 98% free on purpose01:59
wolfspraulit's because we have not yet gotten to the point that we can fill up those 2 GB with valuable content, right from the factory01:59
wolfspraulso that's our first priority in terms of Ben01:59
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: and if I choose to use SD slot with Wifi, then I will lost possiblity to use external storage02:00
wolfspraulin parallel of course we are evaluating larger NAND chips, several people have 8 GB and 16 GB NAND chips02:00
wolfspraulyes correct, only one microSD02:00
wolfspraulbtw 16 GB NAND chip is about 50 USD last time I checked02:00
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: too bad not wifi microSD vendor provide all in one solution for storage and wifi IO02:01
wolfspraulso our priority is to first max out what the Ben can do02:01
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: yes, very agree with you on this02:01
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: honestly, I didn't figure out any killer apps for Ben now :)02:02
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: but once it's integrated with wifi or bt, then ben will have varies purpose02:03
wolfspraulwith killer app you mean something that could make you buy one?02:05
wolfspraulor you just try to say without RF you think nobody will buy? what's your point?02:06
wolfspraulbtw I think both Wi-Fi and BT are old, complicated, power hungry and proprietary technologies02:06
wolfspraulI started using the Ben to take notes. works quite well.02:07
wolfspraulI wish I could use it as my alarm clock, but need to figure out a few more things for that first. Also I really really want to trust my alarm clock, otherwise I may miss a flight or important meeting :-)02:07
wolfspraulalso I want to use it as dictation device, to record from the microphone02:08
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: oh, Ben still can sell without RF, but I guess it might sell better if equipped with RF02:12
wolfspraulfor sure, the more the better02:12
wolfspraulalthough price is also important, and integrating is costly02:13
wolfspraulbut yeah I wish we would sell more units, create more capital, invest the capital in better technolgoy, etc.02:13
wolfspraulwe are working on that...02:13
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: em, so some protential user might wait till Spectec SDW-823 get much cheaper02:13
wolfspraulit will never get cheaper02:13
qwebirc83180so why not integrate RF part into Ben or BenII as a plan B?02:14
wolfspraulwhat we need to do is to integrate ourselves, and that's costly02:14
wolfsprauloh we are working on Ya NanoNote already02:14
wolfspraulin fact every software improvement on Ben will help Ya too, so the software work on Ben is also towards Ya02:15
wolfspraulfor RF there are several options, GPS, Marvell module, HopeRF module02:15
wolfspraulbut it will take time, I wouldn't expect the Ya NanoNote to come out for at least 6 months02:15
wolfspraulwe need to sell some Ben first, and to do that we need to get more of the hardware performance out to the user02:16
wolfspraulwhich many people are working on, luckily... :-)02:16
qwebirc83180sigh, it will come out next year02:16
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: BTW: are you based in Beijing?02:16
wolfspraulyes02:16
wolfspraulwhy 'sigh' - you want it earlier?02:16
wolfspraulthe work on Ben benefits the next device02:17
wolfspraulprogress is quite good, but quality needs a bit of time02:17
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: yes, I want it earlier, I used to expected Ben can reach Ya's spec02:17
wolfsprauljust got Debian to work on the Ben, which is great02:17
wolfspraulone by one02:17
wolfspraulif our current software can only utilize a small percentage of what the HW could do, why improve the HW specs?02:18
qwebirc83180OK, shall I visit your local office in Beijing ?02:18
wolfspraulmakes no sense to me02:18
wolfspraulwe will focus on getting more out of the HW02:18
wolfsprauland there is a lot more it could do...02:18
qwebirc83180em, indeed02:19
qwebirc83180wolfspraul: I might buy Ben and also expect for a field trail :) so can I visit your local office in Beijing and have a face to face talk?02:20
vegyraupemirko: ping03:02
josch_hm03:03
vegyraupeit's a bit early for him I guess03:03
mirkovegyraupe, pong03:10
vegyraupemirko: aaaaaah :) do you know if the proto that josch_ has, ever actually worked?03:11
vegyraupemirko: if so can you get him the image that was flashed and such?03:11
josch_vegyraupe: it did work03:12
josch_vegyraupe: it bootet with the OS that was on there when i got it03:12
josch_vegyraupe: never did i suspect it would fail to boot if i would reflash it03:13
mirkoit worked03:13
mirkojosch_, do you use the the right xburst-tools/usbboot?03:13
vegyraupemirko, josch_: ok 2 vs one here, as long as you guys figure it out I am habby :P03:13
josch_mirko: i didnt know there was a wrong version03:15
mirkojosch_, there is one for the prototypes (as it just has 1 gb of nand flash) and the one for the official ones with 2 gb03:15
josch_but flashing went fine when i used the provided deb binary03:16
josch_brb taking a shower03:19
xiangfutuxbrain, not sure. the mmc driver in u-boot is not good. so I think the sd card < 2GB is always work.03:25
mirkojosch_, yeah, with the wrong offset03:27
mirkodivide every offsets used in the official reflash-script for the ben by 2 for your version03:28
mirkooops, times 2 (*2) - not devided03:29
mirkoso the kernel starts at offset 1024 on the ben, for you it starts at 204803:29
mirkosame with the rootfs (2048 -> 4096)03:29
mirkohave to go to university03:29
josch_oh03:36
josch_hrm...03:36
josch_mirko: i already did that03:36
josch_mirko: larsc told me to03:36
vegyraupejosch_: the easiest would be to get a Ben or an AVT2 ;)03:36
josch_vegyraupe: :P03:36
josch_brb classes03:37
vegyraupejosch_: ack03:37
josch_re03:43
Action: josch_ likes to live close to the lecture hall :D03:43
vegyraupe:D03:45
vegyraupezedstar: ping04:47
zedstarvegyraupe pong!04:47
vegyraupezedstar: hey :) how is the project wrt education on the Ben coming along?04:48
zedstarvegyraupe well waiting to hear back from a demo submission to a conference.......i was getting guile working properly recently with command line history.....have a makefile u can try in your build04:49
vegyraupezedstar: if it works we should get it into the feed04:52
zedstarvegyraupe yeh the one currently you have is disabled04:54
vegyraupezedstar: is the edu project dependent on the conference ?05:00
zedstarvegyraupe no...just steps really to improve chances of getting proper funding and get the word out05:01
zedstarvegyraupe sujan has access to a bunch of libraries in nepal now that have wikireaders....need to get some nanonotes through that channel also i guess05:04
vegyraupezedstar: ok, let me know if there is anything we can do to help05:05
zedstarvegyraupe sure thanks05:07
zedstarvegyraupe in terms of apps i would like to have a crack at PDF search engine with SDL interface to trigger nupdf....hopefully over summer i can have a go05:08
vegyraupeyou want to search in a pdf?05:10
zedstarvegyraupe yeh can do with hyper estrairer just need decent interface05:11
vegyraupeoh, that does sound interesting05:11
zedstarit triggers pdftotext and search inside05:11
zedstarso can have thousands of pdf and find what u need quickly05:12
zedstarhas a nice c api to do the searching etc05:13
vegyraupeu think the Ben is fast enough?05:13
zedstarwell...indexing is the slow part05:14
zedstarbut once indexed should be ok i think05:14
zedstarthe search engine is pretty optimised05:14
zedstarwritten in c05:15
zedstarbut yeh be interesting to see how it performs05:15
vegyraupehm ok05:16
zedstarwhat would be kewl though is a decent interface to page between search results05:16
vegyraupezedstar: I haven't done any sdl coding yet05:17
vegyraupebut it probably isn't too hard either, and we can always nag wejp to give us hints ;)05:17
zedstarive just fiddled with some demos05:17
zedstarnice api tho05:17
zedstarbut lot of work05:17
zedstarcompared to gui toolkits05:17
vegyraupebut the speed is good05:18
zedstaryeh.....im really keen on some nintendo ds style gui's on the ben instead of widgets05:18
mirkolarsc, ping05:28
vegyraupezedstar: haven't seen the ds interface05:28
Action: tuxbrain trying to mount the ubi file but I don't get the point :(05:47
dmarschalhello!08:27
dmarschalI'm about to update wiki with a NN compatible battery08:27
dmarschalhow can I upload a picture08:28
zeardmarschal, first you need to create an account on the wiki if you don't have it already08:28
dmarschalzear: thank you. I have an account  and I'm logged in.08:29
zearthen click on the "toolbox" tab on the left and choose "upload file"08:29
qi-commitsLars-Peter Clausen: Move methods only used by dialogs from the GMenu2x class to a common base class http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/6da573f08:35
qi-commitsLars-Peter Clausen: Speed up isActive() http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/cb654dd08:35
dmarschalzear: thank you. I just updated the wiki. (-:08:36
zearno prob :)08:37
kristianpaulmorning10:22
wolfspraulkristianpaul: morning10:25
kristianpaulzear: there?12:02
zearkristianpaul, yep12:03
kristianpauli'm confused a bit, the gcc package in the opnwrt svn is a gcc that can be compiled for the target arch?12:03
kristianpauli want cross-compile gcc for the nano12:04
zearumm.. i'm not sure which gcc do you reffer to12:04
zearyou want to crosscompile stuff for the nano, or compile natively on nano?12:04
kristianpaulcompile natively on nano12:05
zearah, then i don't know if we have an owrt package for native gcc12:06
kristianpaulhmm12:06
kristianpaulopenqrt does have it?12:06
zearmaybe, i don't know12:06
larscyes12:06
kristianpaulhmm12:06
kristianpaullarsc: ahev you tried gcc nativelly?12:07
larscnot on the nanonote12:07
kristianpaulwher?12:07
kristianpaulwhat steps you follow in that device?12:07
larschm, looks lile that the gcc package depends on TARGET_x8612:10
kristianpaulyup12:10
larscnot sure if it will work if you remove that dependency12:10
kristianpaulhehe12:10
kristianpaulcause i guess crosscompile gcc for openwrt will be a madness :/12:11
kristianpaulahh better learn lua anyway :)12:12
lekernelkristianpaul, well, no, usually it works12:15
lekernelkristianpaul, there is also the "dirty" solution of using binaries from another distro (debian mips for example)12:31
kristianpaulhehe yes i was thinking that too12:31
kristianpaulsi he estadomirnado los makefiles12:32
kristianpaulops12:32
gnufsgcc on nano is certainly not complete madness12:33
kristianpaulis not12:33
gnufsand would be quite nifty12:33
kristianpauli just need review how to to make the Mkafeile wich seems easy (checing one right now)12:34
kristianpaulahh i founded it13:04
kristianpaulin Advanced Options for developers there is toolchain menu13:05
kristianpaulseems it will built in image..13:05
kristianpaullets see13:05
kristianpaulhttp://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/Toolchains :)13:25
kristianpauloh 500 nanos out there?14:06
kristianpaul:)14:06
jxselfI wonder what they're all doing...14:15
gnufssitting idly14:20
kristianpaultuxbrain_away: there?16:42
kristianpaulmaybe..16:42
tuxbrain_awayquit busy but yes :)16:42
tuxbrain_awayquite16:42
kristianpaulis about serial port16:42
kristianpauldid  you finally use wich?16:42
tuxbrain_awayTp4 & Tp516:44
kristianpaulohh16:44
kristianpaulbut those are implemended by the kernel as another port16:44
tuxbrain_awaynot by kernel by uboot, I have a uboot with the patch of Xianfu enabling them as serial that will be included in next realease, so surelly is also uploaded in git16:46
tuxbrain_awayis same port UART0 but without keyboard interference16:47
kristianpaulhmm i need it16:47
kristianpaulso i can test a gps i have16:47
kristianpauli alrady have the gps sofware but neet to be sure uart will work16:47
kristianpaulso the default serial in nano will give me troubles even if i use S key at poweron with uboot?16:48
kristianpauli can avoid use keyboard and do all by ssh16:48
kristianpaulif this is a problem right now16:48
tuxbrain_awaykristianpaul, well as long as you don't touch any key I thing you might do you test, but I will recoment to use Tp4 and TP5 instead,  use the following uboot to do so, http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.bin17:33
tuxbrain_awaylet us informed about you progress, gps is one of the things I would love to see attached to BNN17:34
kristianpauli know17:34
kristianpauli want do gps mapping do with the nano :)17:35
kristianpaultoo17:39
kristianpaul*17:39
tuxbrain_awaymy itention is to make it advice me about near traffic radars and if I'm avobe the allowed speed in the car, even if there is radar or not.17:45
kristianpauloh17:47
sid_hi, something with my toolchain is wrong....18:28
sid_--> gentoo18:28
sid_file orig: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, MIPS, MIPS32 version 1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), corrupted section header size18:29
sid_file my: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, MIPS, MIPS32 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), with unknown capability 0xf41 = 0x756e6700, stripped18:29
sid_sysv should not be; does someone know whats wrong?18:30

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