| diginet | Sync__: HOW DO YOU AFFORD THESE!?!?!? lol | 00:19 |
|---|---|---|
| diginet | and more to the point: where can I get one?? lol | 00:19 |
| Sync__ | on that note, got two more ballscrews | 00:20 |
| Sync__ | just hunting down two stages | 00:20 |
| diginet | how much was the turbo? | 00:21 |
| Sync__ | 53¬ | 00:22 |
| diginet | wow. . .that's like $110 | 00:22 |
| diginet | where? ebay? | 00:22 |
| Sync__ | jup | 00:22 |
| diginet | are they somehow cheaper in Eurozone? | 00:23 |
| Sync__ | no | 00:23 |
| diginet | ah | 00:23 |
| diginet | well, is it the sort of thing where cheap ones are going to need all kinds of servicing? | 00:23 |
| Sync__ | I'm just in my exam phase and became pro at finding good deals on ebay | 00:23 |
| Sync__ | well | 00:23 |
| Sync__ | it depends | 00:23 |
| Sync__ | it runs, which is good | 00:23 |
| Sync__ | but has loud bearings, not a huge deal for a hobbyist | 00:24 |
| Sync__ | if so the cartridge is pretty cheap anyway if they finally let go and don't kill the rotor | 00:24 |
| diginet | what type bearings does it use? magnetic? | 00:24 |
| Sync__ | no, magnetic bearing pumps are pretty rare | 00:25 |
| Sync__ | or rather rare that cheap | 00:25 |
| Sync__ | it just uses plain oil lubed bearings | 00:25 |
| Sync__ | it's not too fast, 50000 rpm or something | 00:25 |
| diginet | that's. . .it? wow | 00:25 |
| diginet | so I'm looking through ebay, the "cheap" ones seem to mostly lack controllers | 00:25 |
| diginet | that a problem? | 00:26 |
| Sync__ | well | 00:26 |
| Sync__ | yes | 00:26 |
| Sync__ | you can build your own, sure but I'm not a friend | 00:26 |
| Sync__ | I'm just going to buy the controller for mine | 00:26 |
| diginet | I mean, is it a problem as in can you realistically build your own | 00:26 |
| Sync__ | yes it's not hard | 00:27 |
| diginet | really? | 00:27 |
| Sync__ | yes | 00:27 |
| diginet | I mean, are there like. ..instructions online? | 00:27 |
| Sync__ | learn how electric motors work | 00:27 |
| Sync__ | somebody made a driver for tph055s on fusor.net | 00:28 |
| Sync__ | http://www.fusor.net/board/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4036 | 00:28 |
| diginet | I know how they work, but surely there's more to it than just a regular motor controller | 00:28 |
| Sync__ | not really | 00:28 |
| diginet | urgh, fusor.org | 00:28 |
| diginet | love hate | 00:28 |
| diginet | I'm so bloody sick of that kid | 00:28 |
| Sync__ | huh? | 00:28 |
| diginet | the one that keeps pandering so hard because he built a "fusion reactor" at 16 | 00:29 |
| Sync__ | oh that guy | 00:29 |
| diginet | technically, nothing he says is false, he's just I dunno | 00:29 |
| Sync__ | yeah total dickhead | 00:29 |
| diginet | he talked to the president about "his ideas for the future in energy" | 00:29 |
| diginet | somehow, I somehow doubt someone who thinks making a glorified purple light bulb is the right person to talk to | 00:30 |
| Sync__ | building a fusor is not even an engineering challenge anymore | 00:30 |
| diginet | no, it's a "having rich parents challenge" | 00:30 |
| Sync__ | not even that | 00:30 |
| Sync__ | you can build one for under 2-3k | 00:30 |
| diginet | most teenagers don't have that kind of disposible income | 00:30 |
| Sync__ | uh huh | 00:30 |
| diginet | okay, well I didn't, nor did anyone I know | 00:31 |
| diginet | anyhow, what really pisses me off are the people getting free rides into MIT | 00:31 |
| diginet | HURR DURR they used the word "fusion" they must be geniuses!!!11!!1one!!! | 00:31 |
| Sync__ | well it's not like I'd have that lying around but taking your time that is not a lot of money | 00:31 |
| Sync__ | but most of the guys there are pretty good | 00:32 |
| Sync__ | but it really depends on the pump and which kind of motor it has | 00:32 |
| diginet | yeah but the admin last time I was there did nothing but whore that kid out | 00:32 |
| Sync__ | well it is a feat but nothing special | 00:32 |
| Sync__ | you can today buy everything you need off ebay for reasonable prices | 00:33 |
| diginet | I suppose so, but it just bother me because it's so superficial. It bothers me that MIT admssions, who should know better, are going to admit the kid who built a machine which makes pretty purple lights and contains the words "fusion" and "nuclear" over someone more deserving | 00:33 |
| Sync__ | and if you are willing enough you can cheap out everywhere | 00:33 |
| diginet | mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm neutrons | 00:33 |
| Sync__ | I could care less about a mit admission | 00:33 |
| diginet | MIT is pretty obnoxious I suppose, it's filled to the brim with charlatans | 00:34 |
| diginet | granted, there are some useful things you can do with them, like neutron activation analysis, funny how you never see fusortards talking about that (well, the mediawhore-ish ones anyway) | 00:35 |
| Sync__ | some of them are into that | 00:37 |
| Sync__ | I have the equipment here for all of that | 00:37 |
| Sync__ | but I just needed a conflat sealed turbo that I could use as a throwaway pump | 00:38 |
| diginet | yeah I know, I'm just saying it's funny how the people who of themselves as the next Einstein aren't actually talking about the useful things a fusor can do | 00:38 |
| Sync__ | yeah I do understand | 00:39 |
| Sync__ | I did not really get the hype about him | 00:39 |
| diginet | what all do you need to put together a vacuum system? roughing pump (easy/cheap), turbo and/or difussion, bell jar, vacuum plate, gaskets/o rings, what else? | 00:40 |
| diginet | can you use aluminum or do you really need 304 stainless? | 00:40 |
| Sync__ | well it depends on what you want to do | 00:40 |
| diginet | well, ideally, a DC sputtering set up | 00:40 |
| diginet | but maybe vacuum evap | 00:41 |
| diginet | oh, a feedthrough | 00:41 |
| Sync__ | well that's easy and cheap | 00:41 |
| Sync__ | yeah basically you'd want a forepump, high vac pump, recipient and some valves | 00:41 |
| Sync__ | the problem with sputtering is that you might be generating xrays | 00:42 |
| Sync__ | so you'd want stainless to contain them | 00:42 |
| Sync__ | but apart from that nothing wrong with a belljar or Al | 00:42 |
| Sync__ | just be sure that you get an alloy without high vapor pressure contents | 00:42 |
| Sync__ | something like AlMg3 does nicely | 00:42 |
| diginet | alloy for what? the sputtering? | 00:43 |
| Sync__ | no for the recipient | 00:43 |
| diginet | ohh, so I couldn't use a Si wafer? | 00:43 |
| diginet | I thought Mg was a big no-no when it came to vacuum stuff? | 00:43 |
| Sync__ | recipient - vacuum vessle | 00:43 |
| diginet | oh right right right, duh | 00:43 |
| diginet | still though, you can use Mg? | 00:44 |
| diginet | even in alloy? | 00:44 |
| Sync__ | at pressures relevant for dc sputtering or thermal evap, certainly | 00:45 |
| Sync__ | if you have fears, use AlSi alloys | 00:45 |
| diginet | now, I know sputtering needs argon flow with a pressure of ~100 mTorr, how low do you need to get it before you purge with argon? | 00:45 |
| Sync__ | no good for much more than 10-6mbar but well | 00:45 |
| Sync__ | well | 00:45 |
| Sync__ | as low as you can get preferrably | 00:45 |
| Sync__ | but it is not that important at our scale | 00:46 |
| Sync__ | because you really have to get a feel for the process in your own system | 00:46 |
| Sync__ | you also want a throttle valve in the high vac line | 00:46 |
| diginet | 10 millibar is like 7 torr though? | 00:46 |
| Sync__ | I'm just too lazy to write the ^ | 00:47 |
| Sync__ | it's to the minus sixth power | 00:47 |
| diginet | OHHH ahahaha | 00:47 |
| diginet | okay I was really confused lol!! | 00:47 |
| Sync__ | I'm sorry, it's like 3 in the morning here | 00:47 |
| diginet | oh you don't need to apologize haha | 00:48 |
| diginet | you know, surprisingly, a turbo set up might actually not be that much more expnesive than a diffusion | 00:49 |
| diginet | not to mention, the cost of oil, and the massive benefits of turbos | 00:49 |
| Sync__ | you really really want a turbo setup | 00:49 |
| Sync__ | diff is a no | 00:49 |
| Sync__ | just a no | 00:50 |
| diginet | hahah | 00:50 |
| diginet | contamination? | 00:50 |
| Sync__ | well, there is that but it is just a hassle to deal with | 00:50 |
| diginet | yeah | 00:50 |
| diginet | could a scroll pump be used for roughing? | 00:50 |
| Sync__ | and at some point you will burn the oil even if you use dc407 and such | 00:52 |
| Sync__ | just a hassle | 00:52 |
| Sync__ | yes sure if you do not mind paying 2k for a working scroll | 00:52 |
| diginet | what about ones from cars? | 00:53 |
| diginet | I see them for $100 and lower all the time | 00:53 |
| Sync__ | ~dc704 even | 00:53 |
| Sync__ | huh | 00:53 |
| diginet | they're used in newer AC systems in cars | 00:53 |
| diginet | because of the compactness and quietness | 00:53 |
| Sync__ | no | 00:53 |
| Sync__ | a scroll compressor will not work | 00:53 |
| diginet | what's the difference? | 00:54 |
| Sync__ | the end seal and the lubrication scheme | 00:54 |
| diginet | http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nuvac-Vacuum-Pump-NDP-18HV-TL635-scroll-/221271475368?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item3384cec4a8 | 00:55 |
| diginet | would that work? | 00:55 |
| Sync__ | just get any used two stage rotary | 00:55 |
| diginet | do those have oil contamination problems? | 00:55 |
| Sync__ | that looks good | 00:56 |
| Sync__ | no | 00:56 |
| Sync__ | but a scroll will need regular maintainance | 00:56 |
| Sync__ | just get a cheap two stage | 00:56 |
| diginet | oooooooooooh, okay no thank you | 00:56 |
| diginet | so two stage rotary + turbo = no contamination I assume? | 00:57 |
| diginet | turbos are awesome :) | 00:57 |
| Sync__ | I also find zero information on that kind of scroll | 00:58 |
| Sync__ | well | 00:58 |
| Sync__ | you get some oil backstreaming | 00:58 |
| Sync__ | but for us it is totally acceptable | 00:58 |
| Sync__ | you will probably see it on the RGA but really, for a home setup it is more than you'd need | 00:59 |
| Sync__ | I mean I *do* have a edwards ex10 scroll but yeah | 01:00 |
| Sync__ | gotta keep everything really clean to benefit from that | 01:00 |
| Sync__ | and your times neccessary to spend with the equipment are significantly longer with diffs because they'll need to heat and cool | 01:10 |
| Sync__ | they have their places in applications there you need to remove large amounts of dirty gas | 01:11 |
| --- Sun Aug 25 2013 | 00:00 | |
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