--- Sat Feb 9 2013 | 00:00 | |
nmz787 | anyone around? | 00:31 |
---|---|---|
azonenberg | yep | 01:39 |
azonenberg | http://mtixtl.com/SiO2-Si3N3.aspx | 12:57 |
azonenberg | 2-side polished 2" wafer | 12:57 |
azonenberg | with oxide + nitride | 12:57 |
azonenberg | Would allow some interesting MEMS processing with no need to do film deposition (except for metal evaporation but that's a bit easier to homebrew than PECVD) | 12:58 |
azonenberg | only downside for my application is that it's (100) orientation and not (110) | 12:58 |
azonenberg | but it might be able to live with that | 12:58 |
azonenberg | i think using laserlab masks and that, i could make a comb drive with my current lab setup plus the evaporator on campus | 12:59 |
azonenberg | a full wafer of them, no less | 12:59 |
azonenberg | I'd just need some hot phosphoric acid to go through the nitride... let's see | 13:02 |
azonenberg | Thermal oxide in KOH is 7.7nm/min, or 23nm/min in room temp 10:1 HF | 13:02 |
azonenberg | Phosphoric barely touches it | 13:02 |
azonenberg | 0.18nm/min | 13:03 |
azonenberg | Nitride in HF is slow (<1 nm/min) but phosphoric is 2.7nm/min | 13:03 |
Sync_ | oh dual side polished | 13:04 |
azonenberg | actually that's for Si-rich, stoichiometric is 4.5nm/min and high-RI is 20nm/min | 13:04 |
azonenberg | Yes, and coated on both sides | 13:04 |
azonenberg | So let's assume stoichiometric for now | 13:04 |
azonenberg | 50nm means just over ten minutes in the wet etch | 13:05 |
azonenberg | Negligible undercut for MEMS-sized features | 13:05 |
azonenberg | ten minutes in hot phosphoric | 13:05 |
azonenberg | Then switch to HF to go through the thermal oxide, using the nitride as a mask | 13:05 |
Sync_ | quite expensive tho | 13:05 |
azonenberg | assuming we use my very weak (~2%) HF but slightly heated it should be about the same, 23nm/min | 13:06 |
azonenberg | so 300nm will be around 15 minutes | 13:06 |
azonenberg | Which will also eat about 5nm of the nitride, but not enough to matter | 13:06 |
azonenberg | Now we have bare Si exposed and can do a KOH etch | 13:06 |
azonenberg | And yes, but it means i can do MEMS work with my current lab | 13:06 |
azonenberg | no need for a furnace or CVD etc | 13:06 |
azonenberg | not even spin-on glass | 13:07 |
azonenberg | as long as i can live with that particular oxide-nitride stackup | 13:07 |
azonenberg | now to make sure 10 minutes in hot phosphoric won't kill my photoresist... | 13:07 |
Sync_ | I should ask if I can use the other cleanroom when nobody is processing there | 13:07 |
azonenberg | Looks like some resists peel in hot phos | 13:07 |
Sync_ | I could make you some wafers for a lot less :D | 13:07 |
azonenberg | etch rates of between 50 and 100nm/min | 13:08 |
azonenberg | so ten minuts would be 0.5 to 1 micron | 13:08 |
azonenberg | significant, but not enoguh to have breakthrough | 13:08 |
azonenberg | this might actually work | 13:08 |
Sync_ | yeah | 13:08 |
azonenberg | i might want to get myself HMDS to prime it, and i still need a better spin coater | 13:08 |
azonenberg | But if i could design myself a comb drive that would work with <100> wafers using a KOH etch | 13:08 |
Sync_ | we had to vent the MBE yesterday :/ | 13:09 |
azonenberg | why? | 13:09 |
Sync_ | wiggle stick got stuck | 13:09 |
azonenberg | And lol, it would be nice if you could make me some wafers but i think thats unlikely | 13:09 |
Sync_ | the threaded rod that actuates the wafer handler | 13:09 |
Sync_ | got unscrewed | 13:09 |
Sync_ | (that happens regularily) | 13:09 |
azonenberg | lol | 13:09 |
Sync_ | but is not an issue because you can screw it back in | 13:09 |
azonenberg | once you vent it | 13:10 |
Sync_ | but we found out if the wafer is in the clamp you cannot screw it back in | 13:10 |
Sync_ | no it is on the air side | 13:10 |
azonenberg | oh, hmm | 13:10 |
Sync_ | but when the wafer is in the clamp the hole is offset at an angle | 13:10 |
Sync_ | so you have to vent | 13:10 |
azonenberg | oh, i see | 13:10 |
Sync_ | I should be able to | 13:11 |
Sync_ | we have a company inhouse that does research on furnances | 13:11 |
Sync_ | so we have shitload of unused ones | 13:11 |
azonenberg | of unused wafers? lol | 13:11 |
azonenberg | with known films on them? | 13:11 |
azonenberg | My current thinking is | 13:11 |
azonenberg | contact litho using LaserLab mask | 13:12 |
B0101 | hi, does anyone know how to polish wafers? | 13:12 |
Sync_ | we have some shitty wafers we don't want to use for experiments | 13:12 |
azonenberg | i can get by with pretty loose alignment | 13:12 |
Sync_ | I can use them for free | 13:12 |
azonenberg | front to back | 13:12 |
Sync_ | and oxidizing is not too bad | 13:12 |
azonenberg | then front to metal will be pretty loose tolerances too | 13:12 |
Sync_ | B0101: on a lapping machine | 13:12 |
azonenberg | Well, i need oxide + nitride | 13:12 |
azonenberg | KOH eats Si for breakfast and likes SiO2 for dessert | 13:12 |
azonenberg | but nitride is too crunchy | 13:13 |
Sync_ | I'll ask around | 13:13 |
Sync_ | but I think it'd be possible | 13:13 |
azonenberg | Anyway, no immediate need | 13:13 |
azonenberg | i want to try with the MTI wafer since thats something i can readily source | 13:13 |
azonenberg | and that's contingent on me getting a better spin coater | 13:13 |
Sync_ | and haha, the ebeam evap control got a bit out of hand on the other MBE | 13:14 |
Sync_ | and melted a bit of the crucible | 13:14 |
azonenberg | I know a guy wh odid that here | 13:14 |
Sync_ | it was quite annoying to pound that Si block out of there | 13:14 |
azonenberg | got in some trouble for it :p | 13:14 |
B0101 | hmm, I am not sure about getting wafers off ebay | 13:14 |
azonenberg | Sync_: http://www.tedpella.com/chemical_html/chem3.htm#anchor312216 | 13:14 |
azonenberg | thats not a bad price | 13:14 |
Sync_ | yeah that is acceptable | 13:14 |
azonenberg | then i need to find more photoresist | 13:15 |
Sync_ | well yeah azonenberg but the machine did it on itself | 13:15 |
azonenberg | mine is probably degraded by now | 13:15 |
azonenberg | been sitting aroudn a long time | 13:15 |
azonenberg | Any idea where to buy resist? | 13:15 |
Sync_ | now we have added an end stop so that cannot happen anymore | 13:15 |
Sync_ | good question | 13:15 |
azonenberg | i had been using PCB-grade | 13:15 |
azonenberg | but thats meant to stick to metals | 13:15 |
azonenberg | not oxides | 13:15 |
Sync_ | spi supplies? | 13:16 |
azonenberg | tedpella doesnt have it | 13:16 |
azonenberg | let me try spi | 13:16 |
azonenberg | http://www.2spi.com/catalog/chem/chem2a2.shtml | 13:16 |
azonenberg | ok, thats a better price on HMDS | 13:16 |
azonenberg | $78 for 250ml from ted pella or $15.62 for 100ml from SPI | 13:17 |
Sync_ | yeah | 13:17 |
Sync_ | spi usually has prices that are insane | 13:17 |
Sync_ | but that's ok | 13:17 |
azonenberg | No photoresist though | 13:17 |
Sync_ | but their website is very VERY web -1.0 | 13:17 |
azonenberg | http://www.krackeler.com/products/sigma/ALDRICH/654892?highlight=photoresist | 13:19 |
azonenberg | Negative resist | 13:19 |
azonenberg | hmm | 13:19 |
azonenberg | with proprietary thinner/developer/stripper | 13:19 |
Sync_ | yeah | 13:19 |
Sync_ | notwant | 13:19 |
azonenberg | http://www.lithotalk.com/ | 13:20 |
azonenberg | ooh, good forum | 13:20 |
Sync_ | ah nice | 13:20 |
Sync_ | oh yeah | 13:21 |
Sync_ | we get our supplies from microchemicals | 13:21 |
azonenberg | Yes, but do they sell direct? | 13:21 |
Sync_ | idk | 13:21 |
Sync_ | oh btw, someone managed to smash a view port on a vacuum chamber while moving something | 13:22 |
azonenberg | :o | 13:22 |
azonenberg | how bad was it? | 13:22 |
azonenberg | i assume the wafer(s) got shredded | 13:22 |
Sync_ | left quite large scratches in the chamber | 13:22 |
Sync_ | there was nothing in it | 13:22 |
Sync_ | it was just pumped to prevent contamination | 13:22 |
azonenberg | oh | 13:22 |
azonenberg | i thought you meant they bumped a sample into it | 13:22 |
azonenberg | and scratched the inwodw or something | 13:22 |
azonenberg | the window* | 13:22 |
Sync_ | no | 13:23 |
Sync_ | they moved a shelf and hit the viewport+ | 13:23 |
Sync_ | B0101: buying wafers off ebay is not a good idea | 13:23 |
Sync_ | even buying from reputable companies that distribute wafers from bankrupt fabs sell crap | 13:23 |
Sync_ | we have a LOAD of wafers that are completely useless | 13:23 |
Sync_ | some have really bad metal ion contamination, others are not doped and again others have all the wrong conductivity | 13:24 |
Sync_ | but they were cheep | 13:25 |
Sync_ | :D | 13:25 |
azonenberg | lol | 13:25 |
azonenberg | nice for mechanical / litho testing though | 13:25 |
azonenberg | deposition process development | 13:26 |
azonenberg | etc | 13:26 |
Sync_ | we do rate calibration on them | 13:26 |
azonenberg | Ye | 13:26 |
azonenberg | Yep* | 13:26 |
azonenberg | Good for something still then :p | 13:26 |
azonenberg | So i think i might try to stick with my PCB resist a bit longer | 13:26 |
azonenberg | maybe buy another bottle from the same vendor | 13:26 |
Sync_ | yep | 13:26 |
azonenberg | the solvent chemistry looks very similar to normal electronic resist | 13:27 |
azonenberg | its probably not trace-metal grade | 13:27 |
azonenberg | but who cares about metal ions for MEMS :D | 13:27 |
Sync_ | yeah | 13:27 |
azonenberg | So i think the next step would be to make a contact mask aligner | 13:27 |
azonenberg | suitable for a single 2" wafer | 13:27 |
azonenberg | and a spin coater | 13:27 |
Sync_ | oh, I bought a mill btw | 13:28 |
azonenberg | ooh | 13:28 |
azonenberg | i think when i have osme time i'll develop a full process for this | 13:30 |
Sync_ | meh I should start working on the spin coater idea I had | 13:31 |
azonenberg | i was going to make one but got busy with school... silly thesis :p | 13:33 |
azonenberg | all of this fab work is totally unrelated to my "real" research in OS/CPU design and security lol | 13:34 |
Sync_ | http://stores.ebay.com/InterLogicTrading?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 uh huh, pakistan he says | 13:34 |
B0101 | Darn: I don't get why certain students actually tried consuming CuSO4, darn, report coming up... | 13:38 |
azonenberg | consuming? | 13:38 |
azonenberg | like, ingesting? | 13:38 |
azonenberg | that can't be healthy | 13:38 |
B0101 | ingesting? yes, though according to the other lab tech, the student only consumed a little bit | 13:39 |
azonenberg | o_O | 13:41 |
azonenberg | these are... college students? | 13:41 |
azonenberg | they should know better... | 13:41 |
Sync_ | no | 13:41 |
Sync_ | they don'T | 13:41 |
Sync_ | also, why not taste it? | 13:41 |
azonenberg | Darwin award? | 13:41 |
Sync_ | #yolo *hides* | 13:41 |
Sync_ | but being a college student doesn't mean that you know anything tbh | 13:42 |
azonenberg | lol | 13:43 |
Sync_ | hm CuSO4 was used as an emetic agent | 13:43 |
Sync_ | can't be that bad. | 13:43 |
B0101 | I don't think CuSO4 taste sweet, does it? o_O | 13:44 |
Sync_ | no | 13:44 |
Sync_ | it tastes bitter | 13:44 |
azonenberg | makes sense given the sulfate | 13:45 |
azonenberg | still, you have to wonder what said person was thinking | 13:45 |
soul-d | i read copper is verry toxic when i was researching it a bit | 13:45 |
Sync_ | it works because it irritates the stomach walls like most cytotoxins | 13:45 |
azonenberg | soul-d: copper ions are not exactly healthy | 13:45 |
B0101 | according to the original incident report, the student claims that CuSO4 tasted sweet | 13:45 |
azonenberg | B0101: ... | 13:46 |
Sync_ | then it was not coppersulfate | 13:46 |
Sync_ | or he has a very strange taste | 13:46 |
Sync_ | heavy metal ions in your body are generally not too good | 13:46 |
azonenberg | Te lab accidents i normally hear about are things like "poured chemical into wrong beaker, blew up" | 13:46 |
azonenberg | the* | 13:46 |
azonenberg | not "decided to randomly drink some chemical" lol | 13:47 |
Sync_ | I'm annoyed to some degree by a lot of that safety craze | 13:49 |
Sync_ | especially when it gets in the way of working safely | 13:49 |
B0101 | here, I am shocked: the students don't even get latex gloves when working with chemicals, especially corrosive ones | 13:51 |
B0101 | Imagine handling HCl, or even HNO3 w/o gloves | 13:52 |
B0101 | I have written letters to the safety department, but no responses even after the 3rd letter | 13:53 |
Sync_ | huh | 13:53 |
Sync_ | hcl is not bad | 13:53 |
Sync_ | I have some scars on my hands where NaOH tried to soap up my hands | 13:54 |
B0101 | ah, NaOH... some students even teacher's think that basic chemicals can be treated like innocous chemicals | 13:55 |
Sync_ | it could be worse | 13:58 |
Sync_ | if the solution is not too awfully concentrated you just wash it off your hands | 13:58 |
Sync_ | I can see where the "hurr wear gloves for everything" comes from, but there usually is no real need for them | 14:05 |
B0101 | wow... just to do hydrogen test: 'Placed zinc metal into test-tube, poured conc. HCl into test-tube, student stoppered off test-tube. Started heating up test-tube from bottom,causing test-tube to explode" | 14:12 |
B0101 | 2 incidents in 1 day, same lab session... | 14:12 |
Sync_ | that is quite an achievent to stopper it off so hard that it explodes | 14:13 |
B0101 | I don't know how a student managed to do that, as all the time we tried that, the stopper pops off the test-tube | 14:17 |
Sync_ | it is possible, probably overheated the tube | 14:18 |
B0101 | no matter what the cause, the lab techs are going to be in trouble once science dept asks | 14:19 |
B0101 | speaking about safety: I believe that labs should be safe, except when people do stupid things | 14:25 |
Sync_ | well, most safety aspects are about training, there are not that many constructive safety measures you can take in an R&D lab | 14:29 |
Sync_ | you can provide proper workspaces, appropiate for the job, like fume hoods and such but apart from that | 14:29 |
B0101 | but then here, the war on terror is getting so absurd that people have difficulty setting home labs here | 14:32 |
B0101 | in fact, if they suspect you being a terrorist, they arrest you and under my country's law, the can detain anyone without trial for 2 years and that may be extended depending on the government | 14:33 |
B0101 | just as long as 1 officer suspects, even without evidence, that still applies | 14:34 |
B0101 | so actually, the so-called safety rules here just hinder the school lab from operating with audits and checks from the government | 14:38 |
B0101 | they think as if some student or lab tech is going to make explosives or something | 14:38 |
Sync_ | but that's what they do :D | 14:39 |
Sync_ | we made all kinds of explosives in chemistry class in school | 14:39 |
B0101 | heck, If I try to do that here, I'm doomed | 14:41 |
Sync_ | way more fun than regular high school chemistry | 14:42 |
B0101 | heh, too bad I have no chance to experience that here | 14:42 |
Sync_ | you just have to have cool teacher | 14:42 |
B0101 | here, law doesn't allow it | 14:43 |
Sync_ | here too | 14:44 |
Sync_ | but who cares | 14:44 |
berndj | i thought the royal navy gave their sailors CuSO4 to prevent them from catching gayitis | 16:26 |
berndj | our high school science teacher regularly drpped slices of sodium into a tube of bromine | 16:30 |
berndj | made a nice bang | 16:31 |
berndj | i can't find a reference for CuSO4 in the royal navy; quite possibly a crappy HS textbook / bogus storytelling from the teacher | 16:34 |
B0101 | hmm, I am not sure how they deposit copper onto boards to make copper boards for PCB making, anyone has any idea? | 22:38 |
Sync_ | electroplating | 22:40 |
Sync_ | a thin foil is glued on in the first place and then the rest is deposited | 22:41 |
B0101 | hmm, I not sure if we can create different layers of CuO and Cu2O to make devices | 22:43 |
Sync_ | wut | 22:43 |
B0101 | I was thinking that since both CuO and Cu2O are semiconductors, if we can create different layers of the 2 on one board, we may be able to make simple things like transistors | 22:45 |
Sync_ | probably not | 22:45 |
B0101 | ok then, and can we melt bits and pieces of silicon to make ingots? | 22:48 |
Sync_ | probably but what would a Si ingot do? | 22:48 |
B0101 | well, I am looking for ways to obtain Si and other semiconductor materials as the supplier I usually go to has increased the price | 22:52 |
Sync_ | manufacturing your own wafers is quite impossible or rather very unlikely due to the cleanliness issues | 22:53 |
B0101 | I am not sure about ebaythough i did find something: http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/25-Silicon-Wafer-Wafers-8-200mm-Polished-and-Films-High-Resistivity-P-Type-/200831220349?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec2793a7d | 22:56 |
Sync_ | what do you want to do with them? | 22:57 |
B0101 | I want to try to make a simple NMOS transistor | 22:58 |
Sync_ | then just get wafers from ebay | 22:59 |
Sync_ | but do not expect anything from the transistor | 22:59 |
Sync_ | the problem more or less with wafers from unknown sources is that you really do not know what specs they have or how good they are qualitywise | 23:05 |
Sync_ | which are things you want to eliminate in semiconductor manufacturing | 23:06 |
B0101 | darn, now I have to risk buying potentially impure wafers or buy a pack of 25 for $5000 | 23:12 |
Sync_ | for a very very basic transistor grade of the wafer is not the prime concern | 23:13 |
berndj | would a FET of either polarity be easier to make than a BJT? | 23:15 |
Sync_ | yes | 23:15 |
Sync_ | two contacts, oxide, gate | 23:15 |
Sync_ | much easier | 23:15 |
berndj | B0101, i think i read in a book somewhere that they do some electroless nickel (or even paladium? but maybe that's just for plated vias) on a board and then plate the rest of the thickness with copper | 23:16 |
Sync_ | yep | 23:16 |
berndj | Sync_: metal gate, i'm guessing? | 23:16 |
Sync_ | most fabs use a palladium process | 23:16 |
Sync_ | it doesn't really matter | 23:16 |
Sync_ | use anything conductive | 23:16 |
berndj | it matters if you want to DIY :) | 23:17 |
Sync_ | but yes a metal gate is probably what you want to use | 23:17 |
Sync_ | no | 23:17 |
Sync_ | :D | 23:17 |
Sync_ | I guess you could use conductive epoxy | 23:17 |
berndj | paper + fibreglass epoxy + copper foil :) | 23:17 |
berndj | then you can use cheap HSS drills too | 23:17 |
berndj | yeah, jeri ellsworth used conductive epoxy for her FETs | 23:17 |
Sync_ | I'd just evap some copper | 23:18 |
berndj | (btw azonenberg you need to get her into this channel!) | 23:18 |
berndj | evap? sputter? i thought the pcb material might not be so high vacuum compatible | 23:18 |
Sync_ | wat, I was talking about the fets | 23:18 |
Sync_ | pcb material is just so cheap to buy | 23:19 |
berndj | oooh sorry, got confused there | 23:19 |
Sync_ | there is no need to diy | 23:19 |
berndj | for fun! | 23:19 |
Action: berndj points Sync_ at the first 4 letters of the channel name | 23:19 | |
Sync_ | yes, but there really is no point besides fun | 23:20 |
Sync_ | I do plated vias at home but that's as far as I'd go | 23:20 |
B0101 | wow, even optics shops carry silicon wafers??? O_o | 23:20 |
Sync_ | Si is IR transparent | 23:20 |
berndj | i might still make DIY PCB just because it makes drilling easier, because then i can use paper, for example. HSS-friendly. HSS drills seem to come smaller than TC drills (while still fitting my budget) | 23:20 |
berndj | you plate vias with that palladium process? | 23:21 |
Sync_ | yes | 23:21 |
berndj | cool! | 23:21 |
Sync_ | you can just get phenolic pcbs | 23:21 |
berndj | didn't think you could still get those (but i'm a n00b) | 23:21 |
Sync_ | and carbide tooling is not too expensive | 23:21 |
berndj | well, i can buy 0.3mm drills for pocket change at a local shop; i wouldn't even know where to get the same size in carbide | 23:22 |
berndj | never mind what it'll cost me | 23:22 |
Sync_ | a very high quality one will run you 14¬ | 23:24 |
Sync_ | but it'll last a long time | 23:24 |
Sync_ | you could also resharpen the drills | 23:24 |
berndj | 14 euro??? where!? | 23:24 |
Sync_ | hoffmann | 23:25 |
berndj | last quote i had from a local supplier was R700 (just under $100 i guessconvert) for a 0.5mm carbide drill | 23:25 |
Sync_ | R? | 23:25 |
berndj | south african rand | 23:25 |
Sync_ | 58¬ | 23:25 |
Sync_ | that is quite a ripoff | 23:26 |
berndj | it's possible it's optimized for different uses, namely metal fabrication, not making holes in PCBs | 23:26 |
Sync_ | a .3mm HSS drill should run you around 6¬ in a good quality | 23:27 |
Sync_ | the only thing that can be changed is the cutting geometry | 23:27 |
berndj | yeah, something close to that, not 5x more | 23:27 |
Sync_ | and that does not matter too much when drilling pcbs | 23:27 |
berndj | and the length of the spirally bit, forget its name | 23:27 |
berndj | the flutes | 23:28 |
Sync_ | yeah the flute angle is something to be considered but for hobby production it does not matter at all | 23:28 |
berndj | guy i spoke to said they can go up to 70:1 l:D ratio (which is wholly unneeded for PCB) | 23:28 |
Sync_ | yeah it is possible but only with specialized geometry | 23:28 |
berndj | i mean the *length* of the flutes | 23:28 |
berndj | which at 0.3mm would be a 21mm hole | 23:29 |
Sync_ | yeah with very small bits it tends to be a problem but with regular pcbs every drill should cut it | 23:29 |
berndj | do the PCB shops drill one board at a time or do they drill a whole stack at a time? | 23:30 |
Sync_ | haha | 23:32 |
Sync_ | they do one at a time | 23:32 |
Sync_ | drilling a stack will break your drill | 23:32 |
berndj | and they run their drills at an unholy rpm, right? | 23:34 |
Sync_ | yeah | 23:34 |
Sync_ | sometimes over 100000rpm | 23:34 |
Sync_ | but that's nothing too special | 23:34 |
berndj | no? lol, so what is? | 23:34 |
Sync_ | well you can buy spindles made for that on every corner | 23:35 |
berndj | i still need to build a PCB drill. biggest obstacle is figuring out how to chuck it | 23:36 |
berndj | probably a collet is easiest | 23:36 |
Sync_ | just get a dremel or proxxon tool | 23:36 |
berndj | lol, you must live in a first-world country | 23:36 |
berndj | i thought those tools have rather suboptimal runout? | 23:36 |
Sync_ | they work fine for diy pcbs | 23:37 |
Sync_ | I just call kavo or gmn and they are happy to sell me a spindle that can do it | 23:38 |
berndj | the joys of being in a first-world country :-/ | 23:39 |
Sync_ | (I actually do not want to pay their prices but it'd be possible) | 23:39 |
Sync_ | I'd think they'd be happy to ship to south africa | 23:40 |
berndj | i'm sure. i just don't feel like running the credit card gauntlet. (i don't have one (yet?) and don't really want one - rarely miss having one) | 23:41 |
Sync_ | but really a dremel tool or such will do it for you | 23:41 |
berndj | i guess that's my fallback. those are easy to get here | 23:42 |
Sync_ | we use a mb140 and the proper drill for it at our hackerspace and it is very good | 23:43 |
berndj | in what city are you btw? | 23:44 |
Sync_ | hannover | 23:45 |
berndj | i'm also german | 23:49 |
Sync_ | I suspected that | 23:49 |
Sync_ | :D | 23:49 |
berndj | my family's from ex-germany though (bautzen and further east even) | 23:49 |
Sync_ | cool | 23:50 |
Sync_ | that's close to my home town | 23:50 |
berndj | just don't say uhyst? | 23:50 |
Sync_ | not that far east but colditz | 23:51 |
berndj | i recognize that name | 23:51 |
Sync_ | close to grimma | 23:52 |
Sync_ | how did you end up in SA? | 23:52 |
berndj | my mother's family had a schloss in pannewitz 100+ years ago, but i guess we gambled the estate away or something | 23:52 |
berndj | we ended up in the SA because of the 7 day war! suez canal was closed so the tug my dad worked on had to go via cape town | 23:53 |
berndj | fell in love with the place and decided to move here | 23:53 |
berndj | anyway, i'm jealous of you first world people with your proper hackerspaces :) | 23:55 |
Sync_ | move back to the civilized world :P | 23:55 |
berndj | we have one here, but it only just got started and it's mostly just software people. i guess we don't have the density of engineers that you have in europe / north america | 23:55 |
Sync_ | most of the people in hackerspaces do not have an academic engineering background | 23:56 |
berndj | i mean "engineer" more broadly - maker types | 23:56 |
--- Sun Feb 10 2013 | 00:00 |
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